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Chinese ships sail in disputed waters after Japan warning

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"China responded to Tuesday’s defense paper by saying Japan was “deliberately creating a ‘Chinese threat’ as an excuse to adjust its military policy”.

All of Asia and the world recognize China's military and territorial expansion as a "threat". Japan certainly didn't create rampant Chinese nationalism and it's changes in military policy are a direct reaction to China's behavior.

16 ( +24 / -8 )

On occasion I think China is waiting for Japan to pull the trigger accidentally or intentionally to move forward in acquisitions and expansionism.

10 ( +13 / -3 )

Yep, no provocations going on here.

13 ( +14 / -1 )

All of Asia and the world recognize China's military and territorial expansion as a "threat".

Ossan -- really. Quote me one major government that has used the specific word "threat" to describe China's military build-up?

-16 ( +8 / -24 )

I wonder how Chinese people see Japan's military buildup, change in the Constitution, increased production and sales of weaponry and construction of a massive superbase in Henoko pointed directly at them.

The money and energy spent on an arms race is totally wasted.

-4 ( +10 / -14 )

jerseyboy, please go look it up.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/mar/10/china-deemed-biggest-threat-to-us/?page=all

15 ( +18 / -3 )

Oh!!!! confused,here is yesterdays articlehttp://www.japantoday.com/category/national/view/japan-china-coast-guards-take-part-in-joint-drills. Does anyone in the political system know what they are doing ?????

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Japan would not start fight whatever thought China try to lure provocation to Japan times so far.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

*changes in Japan`s military policy are a direct reaction to China's behavior."**

Lord Shinzo has been talking about beefing up SDF forces and changing Japan`s military policy to make a "strong and beautiful " Japan since way before the recent Senkaku spat ( including and prior to his first stint as PM ).

-6 ( +5 / -11 )

........................................... and construction of a massive superbase in Henoko pointed directly at them.

BUUUUUHAAAAA, Berty they are adding a 160 hectare runway to Schawb.. not exactly a superbase.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

Japan needs to put some military installation and troops on the islands now, patrol the area more intensely, show china who owns the islands,

China poses a threat to every nation around it, and jerseyboy if you do not see it or realise it then you need to take off your blinkers and look at recent events and chinas arms build up over the last decade.

4 ( +9 / -5 )

marcelitoAug. 07, 2014 - 09:09AM JST *changes in Japans military policy are a direct reaction to China's behavior."** Lord Shinzo has been talking about beefing up SDF forces and changing Japans military policy to make a "strong and beautiful " Japan since way before the recent Senkaku spat ( including and prior to his first stint as PM ).

And nothing could happen before. But now China's behavior has changed everything,

4 ( +10 / -6 )

China is a potential menace, and a containment policy to hinder development of its military power is in order.

10 ( +14 / -4 )

I thought they were having joint exercises just yesterday? what gives?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Abe’s admin has one of the worst diplomatic skillset in the world today. (Perhaps on par with N.K).

Let me give an example to illustrate: Abe keeps sending massagers to Beijing (how many Japanese special envoys have already landed in China comparing with how many Chinese ones arrived in Japan), making all sorts of pleas for a summit, yet at the same time, His admin never stops prodding Japan’s big neighbor at any opportunity given.

Put the mess-up in context, during his April state visit, Obama told Abe specifically to be careful when it comes to the relation with China. But like S.K relation and war-criminal shrine visit, Abe does not listen, that is the pattern of Abe.

For people who may not aware: Obama declined to stay at the official guesthouse offered by Abe in his April visit instead he chose to stay in private hotel. Why? Can Abe be trusted ?

-7 ( +8 / -15 )

jerseyboy, please go look it up

Ossan -- thought so. As usual you are playing semantic games and using a singular OPINION to state something as fact. The article you reference simply states that James Clapper -- back in March of 2011 -- said China's NUCLEAR capability was the greatest threat to the U.S. It then goes on to say that his OPINION is competely in contrast to the Obama Admisistration's position. And the article goes on to state that he was rebuked for his testimony by many senators, forcing Clapper to clarify his position to say HE WAS TALKING ABOUT CAPABILITY, NOT INTENT. So, I again ask you, name one government that classifies China as a threat.

-5 ( +6 / -11 )

Which stocks should I start buying and selling in the wake of these unfortunate turn of events.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Obama declined to stay at the official guesthouse offered by Abe in his April visit instead he chose to stay in private hotel. Why? Can Abe be trusted ?

Yes. Abe can be trusted. I don't think it's Abe's fault if Obama doesn't trust Abe.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

"Chinese ships sail in disputed waters after Japan warning"

"Japan defence paper warns over China's 'dangerous acts' in sea, air"

"Japan, China coast guards take part in joint drills"

wth

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Japan has 4 neighbors and Japanese people should think why all of japan's neighbors are enemy neighbors who want to strike Japan with nukes and eliminate Japan from earth. Surrounded by enemies, clever Japanese in Japan are likely not willing to fight in a war that they are most likely to loose

0 ( +0 / -0 )

"China responded to Tuesday’s defense paper by saying Japan was “deliberately creating a ‘Chinese threat’"

Meh! China started doing that a long time ago as well as bullying other Asian neighbours such as the Philippines and Vietnam. Stop whining already China! You sound like a whipped pup not the supposed behemoth you make out to be, but then again I suppose you need something to distract your subjugated billions so they don't concentrate on why they are ruled over by a regime of elitist, self appointed buffoons who hide behind a guise of socialism. Way to go Chinese people and you will reap what you sow by allowing these fools to discredit your nation while they crash around Asia like the proverbial "Bull in a China shop"

3 ( +7 / -4 )

Fact: Japan has a top class navy and has had for long before China was accused of militarizing.

Fact: Japan hosts American military bases, and America spends something like 5 times more on the military than China and has had for a long time. Plus American planes fly spy flights right on the edge of Chinese airspace.

Fact: These incursions by the Chinese Coast Guard began immediately after Japan decided to nationalize the disputed islands.

Fact: Just a few days ago, Japan announced they would name the disputed islands.

In short, Japan is also guilty of provocation and did it before China did. And Japan keeps picking at it. Why? There was/is no immediate need to nationalize or name the islands.

At least their isn't unless you actually want a war!

-5 ( +4 / -9 )

@crushthem, Get your facts right; if I remember correctly Chinese fishery patrol boats were reguarly entering these waters before that idiot mayor Ishihara decided to get involved. But yeah, he certainly didn't help the situation!

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Japan obviously does not want a war. That's stupid. Japan wants to be respected and prepared so that when any government loses control of its people, and they begin to foment hatrid towards Japan and its allies, Japan is not left unable to defend its men, women, children, businesses and allies who depend upon them. Any normal country would want that, and would owe it to its citizens.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Japan should mine the hell out of the area.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

China poses a threat to every nation around it, and jerseyboy if you do not see it or realise it then you need to take off your blinkers and look at recent events and chinas arms build up over the last decade.

StormR -- I don't have any blinders on, do you? I am no lover of China. But I detest even more folks like Ossan and Abe who want to use the fact that China is growing its military capability an excuse to start war-mongering and throwing words around like "threat". No doubt, China's territorial claims are ludicrous and it has decided to back up those claims by trying to bully folks like Japan, Vietnam and the Philippines. But that does not rise, IMO, to the level of a threat. Annoyance, most definitely, and someone who must be watched and checked. But not am imminent threat.

-5 ( +6 / -11 )

China is a threat and has threatened Japan if you have followed things, china has threatened japan over these very island, china has threatened japan over its recently declared air zone,, they have threatened the security of the while region, they have had military skirmishes with india, how can you not see china as a threat ? China has Bullied Vietnam and the phillipines , don't you follow the news?

Even NZ is feeling threatened, there was a program on NZ radio talking about that very topic, China moving down through the Pacific, buying what ever it can through the pacific islands and in NZ. People are starting to feel threatened way down there.

Building its navy , why would it need a navy for peaceful purposes when it has gone hundreds of years not having one? To defend from what from who?

China has even threatened the US not to get involved in the senkaku dispute, Seriously China is a regional threat.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

@crushthem, Get your facts right; if I remember correctly Chinese fishery patrol boats were reguarly entering these waters

@ClippetyClop What part of Chinese Coast Guard did you get confused with Chineser fishery patrol boats?

I said what I said. Not what you said.

That said, I don't recall anything about Chinese fishery patrol boats. I do remember the incident with the Chinese fishing trawler in 2010, but that was not a "fishery patrol boat" even if it is suspected that trawler was sent there by the Chinese government, despite the captain being placed under house arrest.

Further, one or two incursions is quite different from the flurry of incursions we have had since nationalization of the islands. But yeah, in the mind of some people, one, one hundred, what's the difference?

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

@crushthem, one of the roles of the Chinese Coast Guard is to protect their own fishing boats. We are talking about the same boats. I used something called a Google to quickly find several articles, here is one. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-04-12/an-china-ship-sails-into-disputed-waters2c-says-japan-coastgua/5386310 "China ships enter waters off disputed islands" - April 12, 2012. This happened before Ishihara threatened to nationalize the islands, not after. So your "fact" is untrue, which puts your other facts in doubt

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Fact: Japan has a top class navy and has had for long before China was accused of militarizing.

Because

1) USSR, 2) North Korea, 3) China, regardless of whether they were being accused of militarizing or not.

Country with a history of being ruled by dangerous locos (such as Comrade Mao), huge military forces, and let's chuck in nukes just in case the first two aren't a concern.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

don't you follow the news?

StormR -- believe it or not, I do, probably more than you do. And that doesn't make me believe China is a threat. As CrazyJoe says, a potential menace, no doubt, but not the threat you want to imagine. For one thing, I could not care less what some folks on talk radio in NZ think, and if you do, it makes you less credible. (People on talk radio here in the U.S. still believe in Palin for pity sake.) And with regards to China threatening Japan, I see as much blustering on Japan's end as I do China's. They are both making un-friendly statements. Finally, why would China "need a navy for peaceful purposes when it has gone hundreds of years not having one? To defend from what from who?" -- couldn't you ask the same thing about Japan? Or even the U.S.. I mean, afterall, the U.S. Navy's theme line is "A Global Force for Good".

-3 ( +7 / -10 )

For people who may not aware: Obama declined to stay at the official guesthouse offered by Abe in his April visit instead he chose to stay in private hotel.

Would you trust Obama for anything these days, being the foreign policy weakling he is? No one does.

Get your facts right first. China is going into trouble with several countries around, from Japan to India, including Philippines, Vietnam and Taiwan. Notice that I only mentioned the main disputes; there are a dozen countries who are in the middle of territorial disputes with China, and those countries didn't stop expressing their concerns in the last couple of years.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

"China ships enter waters off disputed islands" - April 12, 2012. This happened before Ishihara threatened to nationalize the islands, not after. So your "fact" is untrue, which puts your other facts in doubt

@ClippetyClop Your article is clearly marked 2014, not 2012. Your article even says:

Japan nationalised some of the islands in September 2012, setting off the latest spate of incidents in a long-running territorial dispute.

That is because the nationalization happened before the incident obviously.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Dealing with the "China Problem" is not an easy task for Japan. If you have even a trace of honor in you, you don't want to be an underdog for big bully China. Abe's administration is the first that shows China the finger in this matter and China can't handle it so they try to provoke the crap out of Japan to expect that Japan does the first wrong move. Japan however so far has kept a relatively cool head while Chinese heads are boiling.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Fact: These incursions by the Chinese Coast Guard began immediately after Japan decided to nationalize the disputed islands.

So you admit that in response to what was essentially rhetoric from Japan, China has taken physical action. That doesn't sound like being peaceful to me.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

@jerseyboy

don't you follow the news?

StormR -- believe it or not, I do, probably more than you do.

Based on?

Not taking sides. But I'm curious as to whether you think this makes what you say more compelling.

Seeing quite a lot fluff on JT, there appears to be a pattern and I find it interesting (and amusing/sad/worrisome at the same time)

@Probie

Japan should mine the hell out of the area.

Tempting solution but if you have military experience, you should realize the problems involved

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Jerseyboy so you are in the US and not japan? No wonder you don't see feel the Chinese threat.

They are a threat, try reading more then just the articles on JT,

0 ( +1 / -1 )

CGB Spender

Japan however so far has kept a relatively cool head while Chinese heads are boiling.

Well said.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Let’s put the outcomes aside for the sake of our discussion here, it seems that Abe’s admin put too much emphasis, resources and political stockings into disputing with Chinese regime, yet it missed its main point to make Japan’s economy to grow in order to compete in global marketplaces.

Abe has visited 47 countries already for 18 months on the job, yet how many leaders of those countries really trust what Abe said and he did? Go figure.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

marcelitoAug. 07, 2014 - 09:09AM JST changes in Japans military policy are a direct reaction to China's behavior."** Lord Shinzo has been talking about beefing up SDF forces and changing Japans military policy to make a "strong and beautiful " Japan since way before the recent Senkaku spat ( including and prior to his first stint as PM ).

And nothing could happen before. But now China's behavior has changed everything,

Indeed, and what a great coincidence that the great nationalist grandpa Ishihara's actions to push govt. to nationalize Senkaku,s resulted in China getting peeved and the equalibrium that held for decades shifted. Voila, the right wing finally has the justification it needs for changing Article 9 and push for strengthening the military.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Its Good that China remember Nanjing, and know what's the meaning of Japanese Military build up..

0 ( +2 / -2 )

@Gaijin and what do people on planet Earth think about this?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

ClippetyClop Aug. 07, 2014 - 12:15PM JST one of the roles of the Chinese Coast Guard is to protect their own fishing boats. We are talking about the same boats.

The 1997 China-Japan Fisheries Agreement does show that the Japanese action made a sudden departure from policies that have been in effect for over three decades. The fisheries agreement allows Japanese and Chinese fishermen to operate free of regulation around the Senkaku/Diaoyu islands. So it's not clear why the Japanese coast guard decided it needs to stop the Chinese boat. The agreement made no decision about regulating operations in the area of the sea around the Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands. The fishing boats of either country can operate without permission from the other and either country has regulatory rights only over its own fishing boats. In the past, the Japanese Coast Guard never captured or indicted a Chinese fishing boat, even if they chased them. The important question is why the Japanese government now acts to anger China? This is the first time Japanese government has taken a aggressive attitude toward China. These fisherman were minding their own business like they had done for the last two-three decades from the fishing agreement. The point is they didn't land on the island but were arrested. How often prior to 8/11 did the Japanese Coast Guard arrest Chinese fisherman? Hardly any, and why change now?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

The 1997 China-Japan Fisheries Agreement does show that the Japanese action made a sudden departure from policies that have been in effect for over three decades. The fisheries agreement allows Japanese and Chinese fishermen to operate free of regulation around the Senkaku/Diaoyu islands.

They didn't. These fishermen started to violate within the "territorial waters" (within 12 NM).

http://web.archive.org/web/20100913051153/http://sankei.jp.msn.com/politics/policy/100910/plc1009102045022-n1.htm

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

nigelboy Aug. 08, 2014 - 05:37AM JST They didn't. These fishermen started to violate within the "territorial waters" (within 12 NM).

The extant fisheries dispensation (the 1975 Japan-China Fishery Agreement), which deemed the areas around the Senkakus as part of the high seas, was allowed to prevail. As such, not only are Chinese vessels, as per mutually agreed legal principle and fact allowed to operate along the Senkaku’s coastline

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

The extant fisheries dispensation (the 1975 Japan-China Fishery Agreement), which deemed the areas around the Senkakus as part of the high seas, was allowed to prevail. As such, not only are Chinese vessels, as per mutually agreed legal principle and fact allowed to operate along the Senkaku’s coastline

False. At no point where the agreement stated that the 12NM territorial waters as part of "high seas".

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

nigelboy Aug. 08, 2014 - 06:15AM JST False. At no point where the agreement stated that the 12NM territorial waters as part of "high seas".

Then tell me how many Chinese ships were captured and arrested prior to 2011?

0 ( +2 / -2 )

1) USSR, 2) North Korea, 3) China, regardless of whether they were being accused of militarizing or not. Country with a history of being ruled by dangerous locos (such as Comrade Mao), huge military forces, and let's chuck in nukes just in case the first two aren't a concern.

@ReformedBasher A history of being ruled by dangerous locos? That is rich! You forget about Hirohito and Tojo already? They actually invaded China and carved a colony out of it. They actually used Chinese as human guinea pigs.

I find it amazing how the pro-Japan side can just push that aside and expect the Chinese to act like it never happened cause "Japan has changed". Mao is dead. China still holds Tibet but has not taken a foreign country since then. The only reason Japan let go of anything is because they got brutally beaten into submission. If I were a victim of Japan's aggression, I would not forget about it so easily. That said, Americans still bring up Peal Harbor awful fast, don't you think?

So whatever reasons you think of why Japan has such a powerful navy, the Chinese are going to notice and feel threatened. So will Russia, North Korea, and even South Korea. In case you have forgotten, Japan has land disputes with all of them.

Never, never ceases to annoy me how people posting here cannot see both sides of these issues.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

@Crush Them

A history of being ruled by dangerous locos?

My entire comment was in to reply to your remark.

Fact: Japan has a top class navy and has had for long before China was accused of militarizing.

Don't even bother.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

That said, Americans still bring up Peal Harbor awful fast, don't you think?

I have never heard of Americans mentioning Pearl Harbor with a feeling of hatred for Japan. Maybe 2 or 3 old veterans which should be the same for victims of Japan in Asia. Meanwhile China is sailing boats and planes in disputed territory this very minute. It is clear who the provoker is: the one who switched from words to actions.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

My entire comment was in to reply to your remark.

ReformedBasher I don't what that is supposed to mean. If I misunderstood the post before, perhaps it was the grammar?

Don't even bother.

Bother with what? Japan has a hell of a navy and has had long before China even really tried to have one, and that despite Japan hosting the top navy on the globe, that of the U.S.

I have never heard of Americans mentioning Pearl Harbor with a feeling of hatred for Japan.

@scipantheist Never said they did. But it sure comes up quick as an excuse why America bombed civilians. Americans might not be angry about it, but they sure have not forgotten. You can bet your life savings that if Japan ever moved from being ally to enemy, even just a political one, that the history of WWII would become current, live propaganda.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

zzz , with all the turmoil going on in the world syria, iraq affganistan , ucraine and russia , Israel and Palestine ect ect , who cares about some ratts azz island's

1 ( +1 / -0 )

jerseyboy, if you actually follow the news you would be aware that China is considered a THREAT by all of Asia, Right here on JT there have been countless articles raising this issue. What do you think the US Pivot to Asia is all about? For two decades China sold the world the big lie about their "Peaceful Rise". Now nobody in Asia or anyone else believes this. So please stop wasting everyones time wanting to debate whether "China is a threat or not". The game is way past that. If you feel that China is NOT a threat contrary to the positions of numerous nations, fine. You can live in your own fantasy world,

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

I don't personally believe that China is a threat to peace in the region and I've seen nothing in my 20+ years here to make me think otherwise. There's alway talk talk but no threat of war. That could change but I also doubt that too. Some people have spent many years on this forum telling us about the threat from China but in reality nothing but small territorial fights. The biggest country in Asia is Russia and they don't feel threatened by China?

3 ( +3 / -0 )

@zichi Well, Russia has nuclear weapons. There's an idea for Japan....

1 ( +1 / -0 )

zichiAug. 08, 2014 - 11:56PM JST I don't personally believe that China is a threat to peace in the region and I've seen nothing in my 20+ years here to >make me think otherwise.

Your comment is flawed because China (PRC) has never had the economic and military power to be a credible threat until the last few years. While their declarations such as intent to break the First Island Chain and to establish control over the South and East China Seas were first publicized as far back as 2002/2003, it is only in the last couple of years that China has begun to implement these goals. What underlines the threat that China poses is that in those "20 years" you speak of, the CCP has not loosened it's totalitarian grip on the Chinese people and society, and in fact has strengthened their control. China is now openly talking of challenging the United States as the dominant strategic power in the region, a notion that has most of Asia very concerned.

marcelitoAug. 07, 2014 - 10:55PM JST "And nothing could happen before. But now China's behavior has changed everything," Indeed, and what a great coincidence that the great nationalist grandpa Ishihara's actions to push govt. to nationalize >Senkaku,s resulted in China getting peeved and the equalibrium that held for decades shifted. Voila, the right wing >finally has the justification it needs for changing Article 9 and push for strengthening the military.

It's no coincidence, unless you think that the Chinese leadership are incapable of making any predictions. The Chinese open belligerence was in the works well before Ishihara. The Chinese fishing vessel was ordered to the Senkakus to deliberately cause an international incident in 2010. Japan didn't take the bait and returned the captain. So China then used the "nationalization" as an excuse. To complain of he "right wing" in Japan when all of China is "right wing" drunk on rampant nationalism, military and territorial expansion is the epitome of both naivite and hypocrisy, If for a moment the Chinese propaganda line that "Abe is right wing" why would the United States, Australia, EU back Japan's changes to it's military?

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

A friend told me he was watching Chinese tv and saw a General in the military on a talk show. He was fomenting hatred towards Japan, and claiming that China will someday retake "OKINAWA" from the Japanese. He and the crow were yelling hateful words about Japan. I found this story hard to believe, but when I saw the bus loads of young Chinese throwing rocks at Japanese and anything Japanese, and walking down the street yelling "I want to kill Americans and bomb them", etc., etc., then I really believe that Japan needs a strong army. And, I believe that the Chinese NEED Japan to have a large, strong army, to dissuade them from doing something they will certainly regret. Mutually assured damage is a great deterrent. If the rest of Asia had been stronger, perhaps WWII would have never happened.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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