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Colonial-era Korean laborers want Mitsubishi compensation

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If it's okay for Japan to bang on about the Kurils after having disclaimed any ownership in the San Francisco Peace Treaty, it's okay for the Koreans to expect compensation for their enslavememt by Japanese companies.

-17 ( +8 / -25 )

This is getting out of hand here. The repercussions are starting to be felt in the tourism industry down here already, as cancellations have been increasing, and groups that have traditionally traveled back and forth from SK to Japan and vice versa, school trips, tours, training sessions, etc, are making other plans.

The economic effects are going to hurt both sides, and it's childish in my opinion, to state, "Oh Korea is going to hurt more than Japan" as BOTH sides end up paying for it!

Japan and Korea SHOULD be friends, "average" people in both countries get along quite well, but when both sides start escalating the conflict, everyone loses!

-6 ( +6 / -12 )

These people should be bringing an action against the South Korean government which received money from Japan in 1965 that was to be paid to "individuals who suffered". But they are so brainwashed that they are oblivious to the fact that they are causing a massive breakdown in SK-JPN relations that will have devastating economic effects on their own country. And typical of the SK government they brazenly defy the 1965 Treaty and it's specific clause calling for Arbitration. SK is breaking the basis of international relations in a way that will affect the entire world, and they have their heads in the clouds thinking that the "world" is going to support them against Japan. Moon will go down in SK history as having wrecked SK politically and economically.

15 ( +22 / -7 )

1965 Treaty of Basic Relations between Japan and South Korea cover all claims, followed by the 1990 Kaifu apology, 1994 Asian Women’s Fund and 2015 comfort women agreement.

18 ( +23 / -5 )

Alex agreed, petulant child nation Korea has trouble honoring their agreements

16 ( +21 / -5 )

I’m quite surprised to see “DIE” written on a Japanese flag in that photo; no mention of it in the caption.

With this and the other recent escalations, when will the SK government realize things are out of hand? I think karma will come back to haunt them if, like the Chinese, they think it’s politically convenient to stoke endless anti-Japanese sentiment as a way to distract from other domestic issues.

14 ( +17 / -3 )

I had a discussion about this very topic with a co-worker, he is rather young, mid-20's , and he got rather excited and animated about this issue. He thinks the Koreans who are bitching about this issue are 100% wrong, based upon the 1965 agreement.

I also get the impression that there are plenty of other Japanese who are thinking the very same thing.

He loves Korean culture, Korean food, and has been to Korea a number of times, but now, he is thinking that he needs to "take a break" from it, until things "cool down".

7 ( +13 / -6 )

There is a word "death" under the picture of PM Abe. What a horrible and vulgar appeal.

18 ( +20 / -2 )

While I too believe that the 1965 agreement covered these claims, it is also true that the claimants have not been compensated. It is a basic requirement of doing business overseas that a company follow all local laws, and as such Mitsubishi and other companies need to pay the court ordered compensation. The Japanese government could choose to recognize these payments as extortion, and recompense them thru the tax programs.

-17 ( +1 / -18 )

Someday I may take the time to deeply understand these issues. Better info in the comments than anything from the MSM.

There are days that I wished I lived in DC.

NOON SEMINAR SERIES: FROM MIRACLE TO DISCONTENT: IMPLICATIONS OF INEQUALITY AND STATUS IN SOUTH KOREA

*When: **Jul 31 2019 - 12:00pm until Jul 31 2019 - 1:00pm*

*Where: **John A. Burns Hall, Room 3121/3125 (3rd floor)*

What: 

South Korea’s rapid economic development during the latter part of the 20th century is well-documented. The “Miracle on the Han River” transformed South Korea from one of the world’s poorest countries to........

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

The Japanese government could choose to recognize these payments as extortion, and recompense them thru the tax programs.

And what about when paying out on the settlements opens the floodgates for lawsuits from every korean who ever had a relative that was wronged by a Japanese company during the occupation? Because it started as soon as these first lawsuits were successful. Korean lawyers made announcements and began to search for more potential paydays... I mean plaintiffs...

Will Japan pay all of those too?

6 ( +8 / -2 )

My Korean friend is going to move to Japan because of his son who's autistic (they're not open-hearted to disabled people he says).

I hope he and his family won't be called a traitor or sthg...

With this petulance, anything can be predicted to happen...

1 ( +7 / -6 )

The South Korean people were compensated via their government. Their government, not the Japanese government, chose to take the compensation money and use it nationally, rebuilding the nation, rather than distributing it individually.

In the bigger picture, it was probably for the best as how would individuals have spent it? Much of it probably would have ended up in bars, brothels, horse races and to foreign economies as Koreans fleaed their homeland.

This was kept hidden from the Korean people while they were brainwashed against Japan.

Hence if the people have a gripe, they need to take it up with the Korean government.

Nothing to see here folks, everyone just move along.

9 ( +13 / -4 )

Will Japan pay all of those too?

Yes, of course - if the supreme court has so ruled.  The alternative is for the company to withdraw from that market.

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

I have followed in silence and artived at the conclusion that almost all here have allowed their emotions to get the better of them and unable to think rationally.

I am not versed in law but by common reasoning the judiciary should be independent of the government and the claims are individual claims and calling on the government to intervene against a ruling can only happen in a dictatorship. It is like calling on the Abe government to intervene and have Ghosn released.

One has to know whether the agreement between Japan and S.Korea covers all claims by individuals and clearly states that individuals cannot sue the companies.

Taking sides without fully understanding the treaty is dangerious.

-3 ( +6 / -9 )

What is wrong with Korea? Move on with your lives, it's just so sad to see so many other people (who weren't even alive then) intent on keeping the hate going. Sad, sad people!

1 ( +8 / -7 )

It's amazing how so many Japanese are blindly follow the government's rhetoric regarding this issue.

Japan did not extinguish the rights of any individual (whether Korean or Japanese) in the 1965 agreement. The agreement did not include this because the treaty would not have been ratified by the Diet if it included clauses extinguishing the rights of Japanese citizens.

As a result, the Japanese government in 1991 admitted twice, through Yanai Shunji, in the Japanese Diet that an individual’s right to file a claim had not been terminated despite the 1965 bilateral agreements.

Furthermore, Foreign Minister Shiina informed the Special Committee on the Treaty between Japan and Korea that the treaty "only waives the right to diplomatic protection but not individual rights."

Even last year, Taro Kono told reporters that a victim’s individual right to file a claim had not expired when Korea's Supreme Court verdict was upheld last year, but later changed his stance saying that Korea violated the 1965 bilateral treaty.

The Abe government's stubborn stance and backtracking are all to avoid paying damages, not just to the South but to North Koreans. Just wait and see how the Japanese government will react after all the victims are dead.

-7 ( +7 / -14 )

@ Kniknaknokkaer

..... it's just so sad to see so many other people (who weren't even alive then) intent on keeping the hate going. Sad, sad people!

You should say that to Japan. There is so much anti-Korean in Japan.

Go to any book store in Japan and you'll find a whole section dedicated to bashing Koreans because they sell bucket loads.

Eg. Why I'm glad I wasn't born in Korea, Why the whole world hates Koreans, Why Korea can never overtake Japan, etc. etc.

Then look at social media sites, youtube etc, where according to a survey conducted by a Japanese university, 80% of all comments are anti-Korean.

Unfortunately, this happens every day in Japan.

The Koreans only act like this when the Japanese antagonize Korea. (Eg. backtracking on the 1965 agreement that individuals have a right to claim, honoring war criminals, waving rising sun flag, distorting history etc.).

-6 ( +6 / -12 )

What does China think about this sibling rivalry?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The Koreans wont stop compensate them they want more and more its the never ending story with them....

@KazumichiToday My Korean friend is going to move to Japan because of his son who's autistic (they're not open-hearted to disabled people he says).

Yes you could actually be a friend and tell him the truth Japan is not much better maybe he should try a Western Country...

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

It's amazing how so many Japanese are blindly follow the government's rhetoric regarding this issue.

Government censorship in Japan (media, textbooks), single party rule, whitewashing of history = hello brainwashed population.

-8 ( +1 / -9 )

@yaponezy

80% of all comments are anti-Korean.

I very much doubt whether that is true, or that you can read Japanese academia, but if it is, it is no surprise.

Korea is making a fool of itself on the international stage and yet appears to be completely unaware of how badly.

It is a great shame because it had a chance, post-war, to remake itself positively like Japan did.

Instead, its right wingers are making the whole world thing it is crazy.

In January 2005, the South Korean government disclosed 1,200 pages of diplomatic documents that recorded the proceeding of the treaty. The documents, kept secret for 40 years, recorded that the Japanese government actually proposed to the South Korean government to directly compensate individual victims but it was the South Korean government which insisted that it would handle individual compensation to its citizens and then received the whole amount of grants on behalf of the victims.

4 ( +8 / -4 )

 It makes me furious to see a picture of PM Abe desecrated, unforgivable. 

It's just a picture, hardly a crime.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

And what about when paying out on the settlements opens the floodgates for lawsuits from every korean who ever had a relative that was wronged by a Japanese company during the occupation? Because it started as soon as these first lawsuits were successful. Korean lawyers made announcements and began to search for more potential paydays... I mean plaintiffs...

Will Japan pay all of those too?

And the biggest problem is that ultimately it does not matter what that the Japanese government or business does. The average Joe Schmoe with no understanding of the history of Koreans and their never ending desire to demonize all things Japanese, will think, "hey what's the big deal, why not just pay these people and get it over with?"

And that there is the problem. There IS no end game. Mitsubishi can decide to compensate these people, but then the anti-Japan crowd will whine, "b-b-but, it wasn't a 'sincere' offer from the Japanese government, no official from Mitsubishi went down on bended knees and begged and groveled for forgiveness, etc. etc. etc." And in five years, the anti-Japan crowd will white wash everything and go back to the usual standby, Japan has 'never' apologized. As happened with the apology and compensation to comfort women (which happened TWICE).

A few days ago the North Korean state media put out a statement condemning Japan along the lines that the entire country of Japan was not enough compensation for what it did to Korea. And that is all people need to know. There is no end game here, never was, never will be. No matter what Japan does, and believe me, it has done a LOT more in terms of apologies and compensation for its past misdeeds than many many other nations have, it is a part of the fabric of many Koreans that Japan will always be the evil enemy, never ever to be forgiven no matter what.

7 ( +11 / -4 )

Completely agreed Yubaru. I know from some Korean tourist-guides that they have to suffer they will lose their job, be in risk. This kind of riots looks more protestors- leader(s) supported from S. Korean govt. However this Abe govt. put pressure the Japanese media what are inconvenient to the country, to people eally know what is the story. I only remember he has spent quite a lot of money (from our national taxes to make his plan smoothly going well with S.K.) It's like a book I am not able to read to the end.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

And that there is the problem. There IS no end game. Mitsubishi can decide to compensate these people, but then the anti-Japan crowd will whine, "b-b-but, it wasn't a 'sincere' offer from the Japanese government, no official from Mitsubishi went down on bended knees and begged and groveled for forgiveness, etc. etc. etc." And in five years, the anti-Japan crowd will white wash everything and go back to the usual standby, Japan has 'never' apologized. 

@ old man - Maybe Japan should try doing 1/10 of what Germany has done to mend relations with their neighbours, before concluding nothing will be enough for SK?

And never mind the whitewashing that might happen in 5 years. What about the whitewashing of history by PM Abe? The whitewashed versions of history posted daily right here on JT?

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

These sickening images are the best publicity possible for changing Article 9, for the upcoming debate. Japanese people are so sick of being bullied and pushed around by Korea and China. Enough is enough! Time to push back!

1 ( +6 / -5 )

I always feel some kind of irrationality and silliness in bringing back the old history and renew argument. We are not living the time they lived. We cannot revive the past. If people who lived the time can revive and open their mouths, I am sure, they tell  us different stories.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

The flood gates are opened...

0 ( +5 / -5 )

Contemporaries do not have rights to judge the past.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I can only imagine what a heavenly place the Northern Far East could have been had someone drunken with power, had NOT gone on an orgy of unchecked violence. If only .....

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

It's shocking and ironical to see some of the commentators asking and advising about the democracy and free-speech.

However, once the subject came to past war-time issues, they suddenly started to condemn everyone as brainwashed, as idiot and ignore all the issues.

The treaty between Japan and Korea was signed under cold-war conditions under the strong domination of U.S to make a peace without having all matters reviewed.

Even though, I want to remind all of you Germany and German companies consistently continues to compensate all the victims, even after treaty, even for the reasons that doesn't get discussed on the court.

Final solid proof for that is, Germany has compensated to all the victims of Anti-Gay Law during Nazi Regime on 2017 in Germany and in Poland. Or continuous new compensations that has been paid to Jews "Germany has agreed to pay an extra 800 million euros (£685 million) to help care for Jewish survivors of the Nazi Holocaust." (2013)

It's disappointing to see, so many commentators condemning Koreans that raising their concerns as brainwashed.

Something is not equal, can't you see?

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

 "Regrettably, three plaintiffs have passed away this year alone while Mitsubishi has been refusing to implement the court rulings."

These small minded men don't give a squat about those elderly victims - they are simply providing them with excuses to hate. Vast swaths of elderly Koreans live in abject poverty, and few people there care. Unless they have a claim against Japan - then they can be used. South Koreans live in luxury while their elders collect trash for pennies and their relatives live in a giant prison in the north. Yet Japan is the enemy?

5 ( +7 / -2 )

There is nobody in that photograph that is even close to being old enough to have been a victim of slave labor. Koreans really need to get a new hobby. The 'Japan hate club' is getting pretty stale.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

@Disillusioned Today  12:10 pm JST

There is nobody in that photograph that is even close to being old enough to have been a victim of slave labor. Koreans really need to get a new hobby. The 'Japan hate club' is getting pretty stale.

Congratulations genius! You proved that there is no victim of slave.

Read the description under the photo, the photo is not about victim of slave labor.

"A South Korean protester uses scissors to cut an image of Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe during a rally denouncing the Japanese government's decision on their exports to South Korea in front of the Japanese Embassy in Seoul, South Korea, Tuesday. The signs read "Punish economic aggression."  Photo: AP/Ahn Young-joon"

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

I had Korean friends before. They were friendly and intelligent people. There are many Koreans living in Japan and they are nice people too. Why do South Koreans today bring back bad memories about Japan again and again and exacebate the relations? We have a long history of good things between us too. We imported many of our cultures from you and from China through Korea. Let's recall good memories between us and contribute to both of our bright futures.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

One of sophistries SK supreme court used. The defendant is Korean corporate body, Eg., MHI’s Korean subsidiary, and the issues are totally domestic matter and hence subject to and be handled by Korean Law.

 

How many of us here JT posters know 1) The direct subsidiary of MHI itself in South Korea has been already liquidated, 2) The assets in question includes some patents registered in SK and rightful owner (applicant & Registerer) of those patent is Mitsubishi Heavy Industries ,LTD, Japanese judicial corporate. Not South Korean judicial corporate.

 

Not to mention this is not just SK’s domestic civilian issue, this is more serious issue infringing the rights of foreign companies and national sovereignty

 

http://engpat.kipris.or.kr/engpat/biblioa.do?method=biblioFrame

  

http://engportal.kipris.or.kr/engportal/search/total_search.do

0 ( +2 / -2 )

http://engportal.kipris.or.kr/engportal/search/total_search.do

You can type mitsubishi heavy and search in the link above.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

S. Korea reminds me of an excited terrier that keeps yapping, nipping at Japan's heels and chewing on its trouser leg. To make it stop, it's possible to tempt it away briefly with a morsel of meat, but as soon as it's been ingested the assault resumes. Like an Aeschylean tragedy, it is Japan's karma to be forever harried by these furies. I can't see anything happening in the future that would cause it to stop. And Japanese know this all too well.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

"Just wait and see how the Japanese government will react after all the victims are dead." That's clearly the strategy. It worked in the Chisso Chemical / Minamata case, as it did in a number of others - claims by those forced to labor in coal mines in Kyushu, Niigata and elsewhere, the "ianfu", and numerous cases involving Japanese plaintiffs.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

> RickyCToday  12:29 pm JST

Read the description under the photo, the photo is not about victim of slave labor.

"A South Korean protester uses scissors to cut an image of Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe during a rally denouncing the Japanese government's decision on their exports to South Korea in front of the Japanese Embassy in Seoul, South Korea, Tuesday. The signs read "Punish economic aggression."  Photo: AP/Ahn Young-joon"

Except, Export administration is far from Export restriction, not to mention economic aggression.

Congrats genius!

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

I had Korean friends before. They were friendly and intelligent people. There are many Koreans living in Japan and they are nice people too. Why do South Koreans today bring back bad memories about Japan again and again and exacebate the relations?

I love the usual "I have Korean friends and they're friendly etc but.... " comments.

Maybe they are nice people as you say, but maybe, just maybe the anti-Japan political activists will perform acts of anti-Japan political activism? Why the desire to tar everyone with the same brush?

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Gambare and how do you propose to push back?

Changing the article 9 and wage war to Korea and China?

How about some moderation and a more peaceful way to deal such delicate matters.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Korea is making a fool of itself on the international stage and yet appears to be completely unaware of how badly.

It is a great shame because it had a chance, post-war, to remake itself positively like Japan did.

Instead, its right wingers are making the whole world thing it is crazy.

@pacificwest - I hate to break it to you, but nobody outside SK and Japan, except maybe a tiny fraction of people with a keen interest in east Asian politics, care or understand any of the historical and current issues between countries. On JT the crowd is different, most live or have lived in Japan or follow events in Japan closely. The vast majority of the world's population will be genuinely surprised when you tell them there is animosity between the two countries.

For example I'm Australian, and I can't say I've overheard a group of mates at the pub saying, 'hey Brad mate, what do you make of the latest comments by the Japanese Foreign Minister Kono, on South Korea? Where do you stand on the 1965 treaty between the two countries'?

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Germany: $100 billion reparations paid, much of it to individuals and ongoing. Constantly being renegotiated.

Japan: $300 million in reparations, to individuals negligible. Decided in 1965. Nothing to be renegotiated, ever..........period. For an occupation that lasted 35 years!

See you in court sport!

-8 ( +1 / -9 )

two things

1) I still have to read of the first Korean to resign from his job at a Japanese company in South Korea. Strange that they think it is ok to keep taking their money.

2) I don't think 2nd generation or further down should be allowed to ask compensation on behalf of the family members whom where forced to work for Japan, unless those workers are still alive. There must be an end sometimes. 

I find myself here mainly on the Japanese side of the argument.  Although I disagree with the counter measures Japan has taken and will take. It is a perfect opportunity here for Japan to take the high moral ground. One not to be missed.  Kono San is an intelligent man and he should not give in to party pressure from LDP but stick to his own principals. He has already disappointed me once with this childish insistence for non Japanese to write the Japanese sir name first.  Everyone here uses a first name to address foreigners.  Should we be offended ? It is not polite in Europe to call someone by his first name unless they invite you to do so.  But a bit of flexibility goes a long way.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

@RickyCToday 11:50 am JST

Final solid proof for that is, Germany has compensated to all the victims of Anti-Gay Law during Nazi Regime on 2017 in Germany and in Poland. Or continuous new compensations that has been paid to Jews "Germany has agreed to pay an extra 800 million euros (£685 million) to help care for Jewish survivors of the Nazi Holocaust." (2013)

Before you are so proud of this one have you considered that it can be used against your side, in that apologies even in Europe where people are relatively rational do mean unlimited de facto (if not de jure) liability, just as the Japanese side points out?

The so called maganimous policy doesn't work, not even in Europe and Germany.

@yaponezyToday 09:28 am JST

Since I've done variants of this what must be twenty times these past two weeks...

"only waives the right to diplomatic protection but not individual rights."

In other words, no more claiming. The people can file their lawsuits and if someone is nice enough to choke up money you can receive it, but in court they are to bounce. The reason you use is up to you.

@drluciferToday 08:51 am JST

I am not versed in law but by common reasoning the judiciary should be independent of the government

The Judiciary is still a part of the government. Otherwise, a country can do illegal things, simply by having their judiciary instead of their executive sign the acts. This is what is happening now.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

@ pacificwest

Korea is making a fool of itself on the international stage and yet appears to be completely unaware of how badly.

Such a typical Japanese mentality, promoted by media and government alike. No one in the international stage thinks like that.

If anything, these conflicts highlight to the world the outstanding problems caused by the Japanese aggression in WW2.

downplaying role of comfort women

changing/distorting history

trying to claim territories

using a flag that is the Asian equivalent of NAZI flag

honoring war criminals

reneging on individual rights to claim separately from the 1965 agreements

asking Korean government to overall the Surpreme Court's decision

having trust issues with Korea when it comes to trade, but no trust issues when it comes to sharing military information

claiming Dokdo to the Russians and being brushed off

Japanese are so self conscious about how they portray their image to the world that they would do anything to save face - all in the name of honor. Look at them trying to remove the comfort women statues all around the world.

80% of all comments are anti-Korean.

The 80% was prior to this recent spat. Imagine what the % would be now. When the relationship is good between Korea and Japan, Koreans hardly write anti-Japanese posts. The fact is, it's ingrained in the Japanese to be anti-Korean. While all pretending to the outside world that they are the nice, hard working, and respectful people.

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

Mitsubishi FINALLY, just a couple of years back, apologised to American and British WWII POWs, admitting abusing them and forced labor. They then denied to do the same to Korean forced labourers because, "They were considered Japanese at the time and so could not be called POWs". Shame on them and the companies who built on the backs of slave labor.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

To be an "ExForced Labourer" they would have to be about 90 years old---a good age for anyone who has been cruelly,harshly treated in slave like conditions. They must have remarkable constitutions. How many of them are there?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

@RickyCToday 11:50 am JST

Final solid proof for that is, Germany has compensated to all the victims of Anti-Gay Law during Nazi Regime on 2017 in Germany and in Poland. Or continuous new compensations that has been paid to Jews "Germany has agreed to pay an extra 800 million euros (£685 million) to help care for Jewish survivors of the Nazi Holocaust." (2013)

@Kazuaki ShimazakiToday  02:30 pm JST

Before you are so proud of this one have you considered that it can be used against your side, in that apologies even in Europe where people are relatively rational do mean unlimited de facto (if not de jure) liability, just as the Japanese side points out?

The so called maganimous policy doesn't work, not even in Europe and Germany.

I proud to be European, "so called maganimous policies" are putting the human lives and conditions to the first place, if they preferred to hide under the juridicial liability of 1940s conditions for their actions (there were not juridicial liability at that time to condemn some violent policies of Nazi regime towards humanity / excluding war) , there were not any 70 years of peace in Europe. Thanks God that they did, and it worked.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Kazuaki Shimazaki: "Before you are so proud of this one have you considered that it can be used against your side, in that apologies even in Europe where people are relatively rational do mean unlimited de facto (if not de jure) liability, just as the Japanese side points out?"

Wow, you guys are really grasping at straws. Germany has gone above and beyond in expressing regret and shame over the past -- even people that had ZERO to do with it. Merkel is, practically as we speak, warning of the dangers of a repeat of the past towards Jewish people. But hey, let's let the photo of Willy Brandt speak volumes for you guys:

https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/warschauer-kniefall-1970/

Now, if I say, imagine Abe doing the same before sex slaves, or even in China at Nanjing, you would probably scoff immediately. Why? Because people like many of the posters above believe Japan did nothing wrong. In fact, they think Japan did good. Now, THOSE people should most definitely get on their knees and apologise, because they are just as bad as the people who committed the atrocities back then.

That said, what the people are doing in the photo is also not much better (you could argue a little better they have cause). It is shameful. As much as I think Abe is the apple that didn't fall far from the tree of his war criminal grandad, this does absolutely nothing to further any cause except hate.

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

@ oldman_13

A few days ago the North Korean state media put out a statement condemning Japan along the lines that the entire country of Japan was not enough compensation for what it did to Korea.

I concur with this. If someone murdered my parents, I don't think any compensation is enough.

Forgiveness is the sum of compensation and remorsefulness. Japan seems to want forgiveness without any compensation and remorse.

If Japan had acted remorsefully in the past, we wouldn't be here today talking about this topic.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

Mitsubishi FINALLY, just a couple of years back, apologised to American and British WWII POWs, admitting abusing them and forced labor. They then denied to do the same to Korean forced labourers because, "They were considered Japanese at the time and so could not be called POWs". Shame on them and the companies who built on the backs of slave labor.

It's funny how the Japanese come up with fake stories just to suit their narratives. During the 1923 Great Kanto Earthquake, the Japanese massacred thousands of Koreans in Japan just for being Korean and blaming them for the disaster.

But in Mitsubishi's case, the Koreans were classified as Japanese.

Even if they were Japanese, shouldn't they receive apologies and compensation? These companies are so inhumane

Typical hypocrisy and double standard by the Japanese at its finest. The Japanese would kowtow to us Westerners but in Asia, they think they are the superior race and treat them anyway they like.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

@smithinjapanToday 05:08 pm JST

You look at Germany. I look at Germany's claimants. Your argument is that maybe if Japan acted like Germany, the problem would be solved. Personally I think that Korea and China are a lot less reasonable than Germany's claimants, which means the probability of success is much lower. Just look at Yaponexy's 5:24pm JST for a live example. But this is superseded by the idea that ... it isn't working, even for Germany.

"Good boy, Germany. Learn from them, Japan" talk is free. Payouts are expensive.

So maybe in the future if you still feel like suggesting that Japan should act like Germany, you can at least make arguments on the more realistic basis that an apology does mean unlimited liability, rather than claiming otherwise.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

smithinjapanToday  03:17 pm JST

Mitsubishi FINALLY, just a couple of years back, apologised to American and British WWII POWs, admitting abusing them and forced labor. They then denied to do the same to Korean forced labourers because, "They were considered Japanese at the time and so could not be called POWs". Shame on them and the companies who built on the backs of slave labor.

Should it be helped or ignored?, that's the question. NO. should advice " Forget everything and nothing forces you to stay here". for the one cooking everything together with just one seasoning.

They were not even drafted but wanted to work in Japan to make money,  No complete fact findings but just testimonies of the plaintiffs

2 ( +2 / -0 )

smithinjapanToday  05:08 pm JST

Kazuaki Shimazaki: "Before you are so proud of this one have you considered that it can be used against your side, in that apologies even in Europe where people are relatively rational do mean unlimited de facto (if not de jure) liability, just as the Japanese side points out?"

Wow, you guys are really grasping at straws. Germany has gone above and beyond in expressing regret and shame over the past -- even people that had ZERO to do with it. Merkel is, practically as we speak, warning of the dangers of a repeat of the past towards Jewish people. But hey, let's let the photo of Willy Brandt speak volumes for you guys:

Genius. Jewish people angry at SK calls it Asian Holocaust.

Don't you genius miss it?

Please enlighten us all when and how Germans made such apologies to it's ex-colonies like

Deutsch-Neuguinea

Deutsch-Südwestafrika

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Also when and how Germans made such apologies to the victims of German military brothels which existed

all over it's territories.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_military_brothels_in_World_War_II

3 ( +4 / -1 )

@yaponezy

If Japan had acted remorsefully in the past, we wouldn't be here today talking about this topic.

Japan has acted remorsefully in the past.

The meme that Japan has not acted remorsefully in the past is just propoganda spread by China's 10 Cent Army, crazy Koreans and racists in the West attempting to justify American genocides and human rights abuses during and after WWII.

In reality, Japan has gone way beyond what it was required to apologize and compensate and tolerate bigotted abuse; and, in essence, basically NONE of today's Japanese or Japanese companies have any responsible for what happened the past. The vast majority were not even born at the time, their parents and even grandparents were not born at the time.

There are lists on the internet of how many apologies by who have been made. It's a done deal.

Japan should send an invoice to the Korean people for outlawing slavery on the penisula (upto 40% were considered hereditary slaves called nobi), dragging it out of the middle ages and into the modern world, and overthrowing the corrupt yangban caste. Average Koreans are hugely indebted to Japan.

What this shakedown (con) is all about is a very Korea kind of punishment that does not belong in the modern age where only the perpitrator of a crime is guilty of said crime. Traditionally in Korea, as in China, there was the policy of punishing entire families for the crimes of an individual by way of exercising social control. Their legal system is still in the dark ages and if you study it, these types of monetary compensation shakedowns, often using projected "shame", are just part of its culture. One that it will have to drop if it wants to join and be embraced by the Western world.

In short, Korea needs to grow up badly and stop being the wailing spoilt kid of Asia. It also needs to measure and be grateful for all the positive things that Japan did give to it. A huge amount of investment and development. Historically speaking, it's just a shame the US destroyed most of the material elements of it during the Cold War, however, the social elements - the training and education, the technology transfers, the laws and political structures etc - still remained.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

@yaponezy

I concur with this. If someone murdered my parents, I don't think any compensation is enough.

If someone liberated your parents from slavery, how would you feel towards them and how should they be compensated? This is actually the reality for the vast majority of Korean who are descendent from the Nobi and other slave castes in Korea where and when they were not even given human names but named like tools according to the function they served.

(This is why they queued up to be given names by Japanese administration during the amalgamation of the two nations; and let us not forget how they over subscribed to jobs offered by the Japanese administration by a factor of 1,000s in many cases. Japan offered them liberty, opportunity, education, and equality from the oppression they knew under the corrupt yangban caste).

BTW, your chosen screen name is essentially racist and offensive towards Japanese. You should change it.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

It was all a misunderstanding and thanks for clearing things up. All Japan ever wanted to do was spread goodwill and bring light and hope to the benighted savages of the Peninsula. All other considerations were incidental. Economic absorption into the empire, population displacement, comfort women, prohibition of the use of the indigenous language, minor details far outweighed by all the positives. Likewise, I’m sure you’ll agree, the sins of the US slave trade were only minor when set against the tremendous good it did and the debt of gratitude the descendants must have towards the system that made it possible for them to be where they are now. Ditto England’s selfless exercise in promoting the development of the sub-continent.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

@ pacificwest

Japan has acted remorsefully in the past.

Apology and remorse are not the same thing. Japan has apologized many times, but has it been remorseful? No.

Amnesty International defines successful apologies as follows:

1) Acknowledging what’s done wrong by clearly stating the offence and describing the effect

2) Accepting responsibility for what’s done

3) Expressing sincere regret and profound remorse

4) Promising that such action would not be repeated

5) Making reparation through concrete measures

1) The present Japanese government has modified the statements of past leaders, distorted/concealed/downplayed the truth regarding military sexual slavery, and deleted factual information from the textbooks.

2) Abe's continued stance that the operation of comfort women were not organised by the military shows that the Japan is not accepting responsibility for what's been done.

3) Japanese leaders continue to do things that bring sufferings to the victims. Eg. Worship war criminals, use rising sun flag, downplay comfort women, whitewash textbooks etc.

4) Never made a promise

5) Reparation agreement in 2015 was not through concrete discussions with individuals. More than half of the Korean sex slaves were already dead when the first 'apologies' were made by the Japanese.

The Japanese government's apologies have all been lip service to this date as actions don't match any words.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

@ pacificwest

NONE of today's Japanese or Japanese companies have any responsible for what happened the past.

Mitsubishi? Sumitomo? Nippon steal?

Governments and companies are entities, as is an individual. Just because the current directors of those companies and people in government were not responsible for the war, doesn't mean the government and companies did not exist during the war.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

@ pacificwest

Japan should send an invoice to the Korean people for outlawing slavery on the penisula (upto 40% were considered hereditary slaves called nobi), dragging it out of the middle ages and into the modern world, and overthrowing the corrupt yangban caste.

This is such a Japanese mentality perpetuated by the Japanese government and media. Everything you say is conditional. We did something bad but you should thank us because we did this. So many Japanese can't accept a mistake at face value. So pathetic.

Did the Germans say, 'Oh we killed 6 million Jews BUT we got them out of ghettos'.

And for your info, 75% of the Korean population back then were commoners. The remainder included the royals, yangbans, and 'untouchables', the latter including Nobi who were owned by yangbans. And they weren't even slaves per se like those in the slave trades. Now, did Japan need to be colonized by a foreign power to free their untouchables?

It's the lowest of lowest of excuses to justify the Japanese occupation. Shame on you.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

@ pacificwest

It also needs to measure and be grateful for all the positive things that Japan did give to it. A huge amount of investment and development.

Another Japanese mentality perpetuated by the Japanese government and media. Does the US continually ask you to be grateful to them for developing your economy?

I don't think any Korean would thank Japan during the occupation as the negatives far outweigh the positives, but I'm sure the Koreans would thank Japan for helping them post liberation, only if the Japanese government were truly remorseful and helped the victims overcome their pain. Just don't go around asking to be thanked until you have shown remorse. Otherwise, it's just pure arrogance.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Kazuaki Shimazaki: "You look at Germany. I look at Germany's claimants."

That is not what you said, and now you are backpedalling. All the same, yes, if Japan had done as Germany had, many problems would be solved. Don't pull a "you can't prove WMDs don't exist" argument to claim it wouldn't be as such. Because here's what we know -- Japan did NOT do like other nations did at the end of WWII, and in fact DENY atrocities, and as such are constantly hounded by history while they try to bury it. You can try and hide all you want, friend, but if you defend them, you ARE them.

I mean, I've heard some of you suggest Japan should be THANKED for colonization, suggesting it was in DEFENSE (10 million + deaths) of Asia that they murdered their people and raped their women, that they taught nations how to bathe (go to my gym and you can see they have no idea), modern education, etc. Hell, some actually have the gall to claim Japan was the VICTIM of Pearl Harbor, and did not attack! Seriously, what are you people who say that on?

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Those hysterics comparing apples to oranges are all cowards unable to answer to my simple questions

1) When and how Germany made apologies to it's ex-colonies

2)When and how Germany made apologies to it's comfort women forced to work as slavery at it's military comfort stations set up all over the places in Europe.

But hey, let's let the photo of EX-PM of Japan speak volumes for you guys to be satisfied with sincerity

you’ve been screaming for

http://www.korea.net/NewsFocus/History/view?articleId=129298

1 ( +2 / -1 )

@ Kazuaki Shimazaki

In other words, no more claiming. The people can file their lawsuits and if someone is nice enough to choke up money you can receive it, but in court they are to bounce. The reason you use is up to you.

In the agreement, the settlement of properties, rights and interest relate to substantiated rights. Again, I point out that this does not include individual claim rights, which are unsettled rights for which the legal foundation can be disputed. Ie. compensation for damages.

I cannot understand why you keep disputing against the concrete examples that were given at the Diet.

Property, rights and interest - creditor rights, rights to collateral, and the right to demand receivables

Claim rights - claims for compensation for damages for which evidence is lacking, pain and suffering claims, and wage claims etc.

The Japanese government is fully aware that individual rights to claims have not been extinguished and spoke so on numerous occasions.

It's unfortunate that the government today is back-flipping on that agreement.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

Japan: $300 million in reparations, to individuals negligible. Decided in 1965. Nothing to be renegotiated, ever..........period. For an occupation that lasted 35 years

Written by someone who clearly has no idea of what the 1965 normalization treaty was about. The Japanese government put forth the idea of compensating Korean individuals, which the South Korean government refused. The South Korean government asked for and received the equivalent in today's dollars $2 billion in compensation for the 1 million Koreans conscripted into the Japanese military and work force. The South Korean government offered to demand no more compensation.

These facts were hidden from the South Korean people for over 40 years.

Like I always say, those who are loudest of claiming Japan whitewashes it's history, are the themselves the biggest whitewashes of history to make Japan look bad. All it does is make these people look foolish.

January 17, 1992: Prime Minister Kiichi Miyazawa, at a policy speech on a visit to South Korea, said:. "What we should not forget about relationship between our nation and your nation is a fact that there was a certain period in the thousands of years of our company when we were the victimizer and you were the victim. I would like to once again express a heartfelt remorse and apology for the unbearable suffering and sorrow that you experienced during this period because of our nation's act." Recently the issue of the so-called 'wartime comfort women' is being brought up. I think that incidents like this are seriously heartbreaking, and I am truly sorry"

May 25, 1990: Prime Minister Toshiki Kaifu, in a meeting with President Roh Tae Woo, said: "I would like to take the opportunity here to humbly reflect upon how the people of the Korean Peninsula went through unbearable pain and sorrow as a result of our country's actions during a certain period in the past and to express that we are sorry" (Summit meeting with President Roh Tae Woo in Japan).

January 1, 1992: Prime Minister Kiichi Miyazawa, in a press conference, said: "Concerning the comfort women, I apologize from the bottom of my heart and feel remorse for those people who suffered indescribable hardships".

3 ( +3 / -0 )

@ oldman_13

January 17, 1992: Prime Minister Kiichi Miyazawa

May 25, 1990: Prime Minister Toshiki Kaifu

January 1, 1992: Prime Minister Kiichi Miyazawa

It's amazing how the Japanese cannot distinguish between being apologetic and showing remorse. Is there no such concept in Japan? Is seppuku the only way?

Any criminal can apologize for all he likes, but it's his actions that determine whether he is truly remorseful or not.

The examples you provide are good apologies. But what did the subsequent leaders do?

They went and honored war criminals (which basically says you think the criminals did an excellent job in murdering/torturing your enemies), use the rising sun flag (which basically says that the empire that tortured the victims still exists), distort history (which basically says the atrocities didn't happen), say that women weren't coerced as comfort women (which basically says women were prostitutes) etc. etc.

So from the eyes of the victims, do you think Japan has shown remorse? Of course not. Only lip service apologies.

Why is it so hard for the Japanese to understand this?

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

@yaponezy Today  02:21 am JST

In the agreement, the settlement of properties, rights and interest relate to substantiated rights. Again, I point out that this does not include individual claim rights, which are unsettled rights for which the legal foundation can be disputed. Ie. compensation for damages.

Correct. and such claims have been also settled completely and finally as far as relation between two High contracting parties and their people is concerned.

Property, rights and interest - creditor rights, rights to collateral, and the right to demand receivables

Claim rights - claims for compensation for damages for which evidence is lacking, pain and suffering claims, and wage claims etc.

The Japanese government is fully aware that individual rights to claims have not been extinguished and spoke so on numerous occasions.

Correct. but such individual rights to claims cannot be substantiated through proper legal process.

It's unfortunate that the government today is back-flipping on that agreement.

Incorrect. Japanese government stance has been the same.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Why is it so hard for the Japanese to understand this?

Right? Why can't the Japanese make a good-faith effort to work together with South Korea to come up with a solution, a final, and irreversible solution even, one that both countries could agree to, in order to solve this problem? I mean, if the Japanese really wanted to solve this issue, they would do their best to negotiate in good faith to find some sort of solution that both countries would agree was final and irreversible, so that both countries could move forward.

Why doesn't Japan do this? Wait, has Japan ever done this? I suppose I should fact check myself. Hold on...

...

Well shiver me timbers, check this out! https://thediplomat.com/2017/01/the-final-and-irreversible-2015-japan-south-korea-comfort-women-deal-unravels/

Good thing I fact checked myself. It turns out Japan and Korea DID negotiate a final and irreversible agreement, but then Korea ripped it up.

Since the Koreans are still so angry, I assume Japan must have rejected their alternate proposal after they ripped up the agreement. Hold on though, I should probably fact check that...

....

Hmm, I'm not finding it. But it MUST exist, after all, the Koreans are still complaining. Can someone please point me at Korea's counter proposal that Japan has refused? I'm interested to see if Japan was unreasonable in their refusal of this counter proposal that Korea must have made but for some reason doesn't seem to have been reported on by anyone, anywhere at all. Strange...

2 ( +4 / -2 )

@yaponezyToday  07:00 am JST

They went and honored war criminals (which basically says you think the criminals did an excellent job in murdering/torturing your enemies),

They went and honored the spirits of the war-dead which has nothing to with what you think they basically think about the war dead

use the rising sun flag (which basically says that the empire that tortured the victims still exists),

Using rising sun flags is not the national flag of Japan and no ones dispute the empire still exist

distort history (which basically says the atrocities didn't happen),

Revising history in accordance with truths and/or new findings is always good.

say that women weren't coerced as comfort women (which basically says women were prostitutes)

Name Japanese leaders who said comfort women were prostitutes, especially since the end of 2015.

etc. etc.

So from the eyes of the victims, do you think Japan has shown remorse? Of course not. Only lip service apologies.

Koreans just cannot feel apologies remorseful no matter what, without Japan completely giving up it's own territory and changing the name of the sea, paying up for atomic bomb victims, for detainees in Siberia, and in Sakhalin, etc. etc. without Japan with no say but just obey

3 ( +3 / -0 )

@ oldman_13

These facts were hidden from the South Korean people for over 40 years.

Not hidden per se. They were considered classified documents and were declassified after the statutory time elapsed. Furthermore, the entirety of the document was made available to the public.

This is in contrast to Japan, where the government will continue to hide from the public or even destroy materials (eg comfort women data) if it means that the declassified materials do not suit their narratives.

Like I always say, those who are loudest of claiming Japan whitewashes it's history, are the themselves the biggest whitewashes of history to make Japan look bad. All it does is make these people look foolish.

Quite the contrary. Korea has nothing to gain by whitewashing its shared history with Japan. Japan on the other hand, will attempt to minimize the atrocities in order to limit the damage to their reputation and save face.

The South Korean government offered to demand no more compensation.

Correct, the Korean government did say that, and they never demanded more within the scope of reparations covered in the 1965 agreement. Note, this agreement did not extinguish claims made by individuals.

The Japanese government put forth the idea of compensating Korean individuals, which the South Korean government refused. 

The Japanese government did put forth the idea of compensating Korean individuals, but ultimately agreed that there was no obligation to pay individuals by saying, "As Korea says, the $500,000,000 fund provided to Korea under Article 1 does not have the character of debt or liability for the claims of Korea against Japan. The fund was provided solely for the purpose of economic cooperation."

The Korean government nevertheless distributed compensation funds to individuals pursuant to the reported claims made by individuals from 1971 to 1982 after domestically enacting relevant laws. But these distributions were mainly for property claims (eg. house, cash, machinery etc.).

Now, compensation for inhumane acts and damages (eg. pain and suffering, specific injuries, psychological damages from rape and torture etc.) were not even included in the scope of reparations under the 1965 agreement.

Individuals rights to claim for these damages were even recognized by the Japanese government. For eg, the Japanese government in 1991 admitted twice, through Yanai Shunji, in the Japanese Diet that an individual’s right to file a claim had not been terminated despite the 1965 bilateral agreements.

Furthermore, Foreign Minister Shiina informed the Special Committee on the Treaty between Japan and Korea that the treaty "only waives the right to diplomatic protection but not individual rights."

Even last year, Taro Kono told reporters that a victim’s individual right to file a claim had not expired when Korea's Supreme Court verdict was upheld last year, but later changed his stance saying that Korea violated the 1965 bilateral treaty. (Why the back flip here?)

The judgment by Korea's Supreme Court with regards to individuals did not contravene the 1965 agreement.

Nor, was the (recently scrapped) collection of a separate fund for comfort women included in the 1965 agreement.

So what is the "biggest whitewash of history" you talk about?

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

@Strangerland

Right? Why can't the Japanese make a good-faith effort to work together with South Korea to come up with a solution, a final, and irreversible solution even, one that both countries could agree to, in order to solve this problem?

Wow, I see you have a very hard time understanding remorse because you just ramble on about a solution.

The remorse should come first before any solution. The solution you talk about is just like a quick transaction, we pay you, end of story, now get on with life.

That's exactly what happened with the funds for the comfort women. In the eyes of the victims, there was no remorse. Abe gave the funds, THEN went on to honor the war criminals. Do you really think the victims would want money from a like-minded criminal?

To the victims, remorse (not apologies) far outweigh the token compensations from the solution you talk about. Although I can't speak on behalf of the comfort women, I dare say if Japan showed true remorse in the eyes of the victim, no solution would even be necessary. The victims are all old, with no families. What use would the money be to them?

Do the Japanese ever think from the view of the victims? Obviously not.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

That's exactly what happened with the funds for the comfort women. In the eyes of the victims, there was no remorse.

> But 36 women out of 46 (78%) and 35 descendants of self-appointed victims passed away received money.

Receiving money must be always good then

3 ( +3 / -0 )

yaponezy Today  08:44 am JST

Name Japanese leaders who said comfort women were prostitutes, especially since the end of 2015.

Abe. "No evidence was found that the Japanese army or the military officials seized the women by force". If it wasn't by force, he's implying they went there by their free will, meaning prostitutes. That's a grave insult to the comfort women.

You provide the most lamest excuses. I won't bother with the rest because it's just childish honestly.

Because it is true as far as Korean peninsula is concerned. Although I don't bother with your short-circuit thought, I can tell it's not that you won't bother but you can't dispute. Oh FYI, that line of comments made by Abe was in 2007. Hope you know everything settled once finally and irreversibly in 2015

3 ( +3 / -0 )

The remorse should come first before any solution.

Um no, there's no 'should' in negotiations. Part of a 'final and irreversible' solution may very well be how that remorse is to be effectively expressed.

The solution you talk about is just like a quick transaction, we pay you, end of story, now get on with life.

Well no, the solution I talk about would be one that both countries would agree is "final and irreversible". You know, kind of like that "final and irreversible" agreement both countries came to, before Korea ripped it apart and proposed... nothing.

Japan tried to negotiate in good faith, but Korea doesn't want to come to a solution, as that would take away their supposed high ground to whine about it. But in ripping apart a good-faith agreement and making no efforts whatsoever to propose an alternate solution, they have lost any high ground. Now they're just whiners who can't even figure out what they want.

That's what happens when you destroy your reputation by ripping up a good faith argument. World leaders would be good to learn from this very clear example.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Amazing.

Has LG invented a "Remorse-o-Meter" that can measure how sincerely remorseful Japanese people are?

Is this the quality of their arguments?

They claim "Japan has never apologised" and then when it's proven there have been 53 highest level, official apologies they say, "*Ah, but the apologies weren't remorseful enough!*".

So then Japan makes 53 highest level, remorseful official apologies, and then they say, "*Ah, but the remorseful official apologies weren't sincere enough!*".

So then Japan makes 53 highest level sincerely remorseful apologies, and then they say, "*Ah, but the sincerely remorseful official apologies weren't honest enough!*".

So then Japan makes 53 highest level sincerely honest, remorseful official apologies, and then they say, "*Ah, but the sincerely honest, remorseful official apologies weren't humble enough*".

So then Japan makes ... you get the idea.

Nothing is ever going to be enough as long as Korea thinks it can make some money or take economic or technological benefit out of Japan. It's a shakedown, a protection racket ... "Give us money or we will damage the Japanese brand on the High Street of the world".

It has zero moral element, and then is just repeated ad *infinitum*** by uneducated White racists in the West who think that by doing so they are being some kind of Social Justice Warrior.**

It's like expecting leech not to suck blood, or a scorpion not to sting.

The bottomline is, basically ZERO living Japanese have anything to apologize for, because they had no involvement in the alleged activities. If you think you have a case, go do what Germany does and find the one or 90 year old criminals, prove their guilt in court, and see how you feel at punishing them.

I suspect there's none left.

In the meanwhile, lay off entirely innocent people who have done no wrong to you or anyone ever. You can't hold children responsible for their parents or grandparent's crimes.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

@ Strangerland

It would be improper for you to single out Korea for breaking agreements.

Japan is reneging the 1965 agreement regarding claims rights of individuals.

Further, Japan is also reneging on SCAPIN regarding the territory of Dokdo. Don't make it sound like Korea is the only culprit regarding the breaking of agreements.

Whilst I agree the nullification by Korea regarding the comfort women issue is bad, the negotiation was never done concretely with the victims in the first place.

Irrespective of negotiations, this whole topic was all about remorse which Japan has never shown.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Oldman_13 Someone who’s clearly taken MacArthur’s famous age formulation to mind! “The Japanese government put forth the idea of compensating Korean individuals, which the South Korean government refused. These facts were hidden from the South Korean people for over 40 years.”

Feeble and mealy mouthed excuses like that will get you nowhere. Time to get down off your high horse and start engaging with the reality based community.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

@yaponezy Today 02:21 am JST

I cannot understand why you keep disputing against the concrete examples that were given at the Diet.

I deal with this point explicitly in "S Koreans boycott Japanese beer" July 21 03:40 am JST. But if that explanation went over your head, ask yourself the basic question of why Japan would agree to pay money with the indirect intent that Korea can grab more money whenever it wants.

To which I add that up until at least the 90s, the "extinguishment" provision was South Korea's position. One has to admit, it is a simpler to understand position.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

It is ridiculous that my Japanese children and grandchildren should "shamed" into apologising and paying for something that happened over 50 years before they were born.

It is surely obvious that Japan would not have made the payments it has if these payments were not final.

Enough of this. Think it through. There has to be a cut off point and almost nobody still alive played any part in this. Japan has said sorry a lot and paid money according to the agreements that were made.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

@ pacificwest

So then Japan makes 53 highest level sincerely honest, remorseful official apologies, and then they say, "Ah, but the sincerely honest, remorseful official apologies weren't humble enough"

You have just proven to me that you, like many other Japanese posters here, that you have no idea what remorse is.

*just repeated *ad infinitum*** by uneducated White racists in the West *

We seek the truth and if you call that uneducated, then what do you call yourself who blindly follows state censored media and fake textbooks?

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

It is ridiculous that my Japanese children and grandchildren should "shamed" into apologising and paying for something that happened over 50 years before they were born.

No one is asking any individual Japanese to apologize or pay for these past events.

Where did you come up with that idea?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

It would be improper for you to single out Korea for breaking agreements.

No it wouldn't. Japan came to the table to make a good-faith agreement. Both countries agreed to it, and stated it was "final and irreversible". Then Korea ripped it up, and has whined ever since without proposing an alternative.

Sorry, but that's pathetic. Pathetic incompetent leadership.

And I say this as someone who still thinks Japan should apologize. I was really harsh on Japan until they made the good faith agreement with the Koreans, who have acted only in bad faith, and have shown they can't even be negotiated with, because you could negotiate a final agreement, and they'll come back and whine after anyways.

You can't satisfy morons who don't even know what they want.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Whilst I agree the nullification by Korea regarding the comfort women issue is bad, the negotiation was never done concretely with the victims in the first place.

The negotiation was between both nations. Both nations agreed to it as a final agreement. If the comfort women and Korean government didn't work that out internally, they are all Koreans, making it a Korean problem. You know who they all aren't? Japanese. Meaning it's not a Japanese problem.

The current stalemate is a direct response to incompetent leadership by the Koreans, who were too stupid to realize that no one is ever going to negotiate in good faith again with a country that rips up something they agreed was "final and irreversible."

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Pay up pls. Evidence is shown to the world. Pay up and never repeat these kinds of bad actions again.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Pay up pls.

This is the quality of the official demands from Korea.

Whine about not paying, make some unspecified demand, but make zero actual efforts towards solving the problem, even though the current state of events is the Korean's fault.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

@ Strangerland

The current stalemate is a direct response to incompetent leadership by the Koreans, who were too stupid to realize that no one is ever going to negotiate in good faith again with a country that rips up something they agreed was "final and irreversible."

WRONG.

Had the Japanese government shown full remorse backing up the apologies, then this situation would not have occurred. The victims don't care about the money per se. If they did, they would have already taken it.

The victims main request before they depart this earth with the little time that they have remaining is to ensure that the pain and suffering that they all endured for a full 70-80 years be never ever repeated on any other human being.

To remorse means that you understand the victims pains, and make efforts to make it never happen again. To not remorse means that future generations won't know about the pain, and hence history can repeat itself.

Showing full remorse by the Japanese government is a small price to pay to ensure closure of this once and for all.

And don't be such a hypocrite. The Japanese can't even honor the 1965 agreement and the SCAPIN.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

I almost feel sorry for Korea, I mean losing the PR battle against Japan and how the current world consciensous views Korea as whiny, greedy, and childish.

Has anybody been keeping track?

What's it like now Japan 10 Korea 0

like I said I almost... feel... sorry

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Had the Japanese government shown full remorse backing up the apologies, then this situation would not have occurred. The victims don't care about the money per se. If they did, they would have already taken it.

Sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of the moronic Korean government agreeing to a "final and irreversible" solution to the problem, which they then ripped up.

Sorry, but your cries of "but if Japan had..." ring empty, because Japan made a good-faith effort to negotiate, and came to a "final and irreversible" agreement, agreed to by both teams.

Now the morons running Korea are realizing that their ineptitude has led to an inability to negotiate, due to no one willing to negotiate bad-faith negotiators. After all, how can anything ever be agreed to again, when they know the morons on the other side my very well just decide that new agreement is no good either.

Don't like lying in the bed you made? Then don't make that bed. Korea has no one else to blame but themselves on this one. If they were inept morons, they wouldn't be facing the removal of "friend" status by Japan.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

I almost feel sorry for Korea, I mean losing the PR battle against Japan and how the current world consciensous views Korea as whiny, greedy, and childish.

I feel bad for the comfort women. They got stuck between Japan, who was making a good-faith effort to solve the problem, and their inept leadership who couldn't lead their way out of a wet paper bag.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

pacificwest: Can you document any of the allegations you made here. I doubt you can.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

None of the guys in the photos look like they are in age group that could have been colonial era labourers...

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Chowchinmono: “Please enlighten us all when and how Germans made such apologies to it's ex-colonies like Deutsch-Neuguinea, Deutsch-Südwestafrika, Deutsch-Ostafrika, Kamerun, Togo, Deutsch-Witu, Samoa, Kiautschou. Also when and how Germans made such apologies to the victims of German military brothels which existed all over it's territories.”

Get your ‘facts’ straight. You provide us with a long list of Germany’s pre-WW1 territories, all of which were extinguished long before WW2, then humor us with a farcically bogus claim that there were German military brothels (comfort stations in Japanese doublespeak) all over these now no longer existing territories. Such elementary historical misunderstandings are typical of Japan’s Amen Corner apologists, who continue trying to defend the indefensible through shameless reliance on mealy mouthed technicalities and other responsibility evading expedients.

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yaponezyToday  05:19 pm JST

Had the Japanese government shown full remorse backing up the apologies, then this situation would not have occurred. The victims don't care about the money per se. If they did, they would have already taken it.

The victims main request before they depart this earth with the little time that they have remaining is to ensure that the pain and suffering that they all endured for a full 70-80 years be never ever repeated on any other human being.

To remorse means that you understand the victims pains, and make efforts to make it never happen again. To not remorse means that future generations won't know about the pain, and hence history can repeat itself.

Showing full remorse by the Japanese government is a small price to pay to ensure closure of this once and for all.

And don't be such a hypocrite. The Japanese can't even honor the 1965 agreement and the SCAPIN.

Preaching from ministers like yourself or smith about remorseful apology may be enough? or

do you want to show good example of the remorseful apology other than Willy Brandt. Maybe

it is good idea to explain how SK made remorseful apology ( if ever) to the victims of unearthly massacres in Vietnam?

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oyatoiToday  08:20 pm JST

Get your ‘facts’ straight. You provide us with a long list of Germany’s pre-WW1 territories, all of which were extinguished long before WW2, then humor us with a farcically bogus claim that there were German military brothels (comfort stations in Japanese doublespeak) all over these now no longer existing territories. Such elementary historical misunderstandings are typical of Japan’s Amen Corner apologists, who continue trying to defend the indefensible through shameless reliance on mealy mouthed technicalities and other responsibility evading expedients.

Before or during or after WW1 or WW2 matters to you? How? I an interested in your excuse.

And you get the facts right about Germany military brothels. I said territories and didn't say in the ex-colonies. I didn't even mention when. What a ignorant

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If it had the tiniest skerrick of decency, the minutest interest in a genuine atonement for its godawful abuse of Korea, Japan would immediately cease pretending that all claims on it were extinguished by virtue of the corrupt 1965 deal it did with Korea’s dictator at the time. Insisting that this abysmal deal wiped the slate clean is nothing but an exercise of the grossest self-deception. Worse, it vilely insults the decency and honor of the Japanese people, who are surely capable of showing far greater compassion than the half hearted attempts at reconciliation that it’s myopic leaders have hitherto done in their name.

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@oyatoi

insults the decency and honor of the Japanese people, who are surely capable of showing far greater compassion

Rough translation:

"Please send us more money".

OK, let's me clear here. Do you want our compassion, or do you want our money?

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The entire situation is worse than it could have been primarily because the Korean Government did not take responsibility and allowed their Supreme Court "decide" on an issue which if in the US or Japan normally would ask whether the post war agreement and settlement payments made applies to this situation and was the S Korean givernment responsibility to actually foot the bill from the funds already received. It would also have considered the "benefits" .S Korean counry received from Mitsubushi's presence, providing profits and income to their workers. THat is besides the thousands of S Korean people it hired both in S Korea and in Japan.

Now, the possibility is Mistubishi will no longer stay in S Korea as they need to recoupe their losses and avoid any future losses when their government and their courts take away basic legal rights. And it had a similar experience in the past. So they will not be a fool to face such situations thrice. They would lose theor facilities and their technology, as S Korea can now "run" those failities with the already "trained" S Korean workers.

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Slave labors wanted compensation from the companies they worked for. Perfectly reasonable. The Supreme Court resolved this labor dispute in the workers' favor. Good for the Supreme Court.

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