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Japanese firm, ex-employee reach rare settlement over LGBT outing

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finally some pushback on bullying culture

12 ( +22 / -10 )

or revealed his sexual orientation of gender identity without his consent

I thought gender identity is the gender you wish to express to the world.

So if you call the person a she it's outing, but if you call the person a he it's outing????

If we're not supposed to refer to the person by their "identity" how are we supposed to refer to them??????

Madness.

-22 ( +10 / -32 )

If there is no shame .... then why the shame and secrecy?

1 ( +12 / -11 )

Let me get this straight.

Let's assume we have a transperson who is born a man but identifies as a girl.

If you refer to the person as a man with masculine pronouns you are "misgengering" them.

If you refer to the person as a woman with feminine pronouns you are "outing" them.

Every possible reference to the person is either misgendering or outing.

-8 ( +15 / -23 )

Burning Bush..the article is about a gay man who did not want to be outed to the entire world at that particular time. Is it really that hard for you to understand that?

This has nothing to to with transgender, so why you bring that up? I don't' know?

23 ( +29 / -6 )

A few months later in summer, a female part-time worker started avoiding him and later quit the job.

I would have believed women would accept more differences in that kind of situation

11 ( +13 / -2 )

A few months later in summer, a female part-time worker started avoiding him and later quit the job.

And I can’t believe someone would quit just for that. It must have been more issues not related directly with these sexual orientation.

Some bad relationship between the two employees

12 ( +14 / -2 )

I feel sorry for him and all others. I'm a foreigner so it is OK to be "out" . For Japanese, it is very hard.

0 ( +7 / -7 )

Burning Bush..the article is about a gay man who did not want to be outed to the entire world at that particular time. Is it really that hard for you to understand that?

The law basically says we must lie about the the person's orientation. If you're honest about their orientation and accept it openly then you are breaking the law.

The law says we cannot affirm their orientation and we must deny it.

-19 ( +3 / -22 )

I remember hearing about this story a while. The man wasn’t outed for being “gay” because he’s not gay. He was outed for being a transsexual man. Big difference. Transsexuals already have enough problems dealing with gender dysphoria as it is and it should be entirely up to them whether they want to or feel comfortable disclosing it to others.

5 ( +11 / -6 )

The law basically says we must lie about the the person's orientation.

Totally illogical. Have you ever heard about privacy?

13 ( +17 / -4 )

 a superior outed him, or revealed his sexual orientation or gender identity without his consent

This article is vague. Revealing your sexual orientation is very different from revealing your gender identity, so which is it? Being gay or being transgender do not automatically go hand in hand.

11 ( +11 / -0 )

Totally illogical. Have you ever heard about privacy?

So if my boss says "so-so is married to a woman" to another person in casual conversation, I can sue my boss right.

After all, they revealed my sexual orientation without my consent.

The law should apply equally to every individual correct.

Every person should have their privacy respected as far as their sexual preferences go, not just some people.

-20 ( +4 / -24 )

Life used to be so simple (sigh).

4 ( +10 / -6 )

Burning Bush:

You seem determined to be outraged, dragging up irrelevant gender-based red herrings from wherever you can in order to justify an otherwise incomprehensible and febrile overreaction on your part.

As I understand it, the law is quite rightly based on the premise that "we" must respect a person's wish as to whether "they" want to be "outed" or not - a right I would've thought anyone had, both ethically and legally, not to have their sexual orientation broadcast in any public place if they don't wish it, including where they work.

Why is this so? Because prejudice towards some minorities, and social excommunication of those minorities, still exist in society, as proven by the reaction of the female co-worker to the shock-horror news that her workmate was, gasp, a homosexual.

16 ( +20 / -4 )

As I understand it, the law is quite rightly based on the premise that "we" must respect a person's wish as to whether "they" want to be "outed" or not - a right I would've thought anyone had, both ethically and legally, not to have their sexual orientation broadcast in any public place if they don't wish it, including where they work.

Does that right apply to everybody in society, or just some people?

-16 ( +5 / -21 )

A few months later in summer, a female part-time worker started avoiding him and later quit the job.

I suppose that the rights of real women - you know, the ones without a beard and meat ‘n’ two veg don’t count?

-6 ( +8 / -14 )

If there is no shame .... then why the shame and secrecy?

Because there's always going to be those (esp online) who use one's sexuality against them. Because not everyone is brave enough to come out, because of the scrutiny they might face.

And then, when someone does come out, they can often be accused of parading their orientation, or shoving it in others faces.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

Does that right apply to everybody in society, or just some people?

To everyone, but it's particularly relevant to that minority of people whose sexual orientations place them at greater risk of prejudicial actions from others.

If you're trying to imply that heterosexuals are in as much danger of copping prejudice from others because of their sexuality as are homosexuals, then you're denying reality.

11 ( +14 / -3 )

So if my boss says "so-so is married to a woman" to another person in casual conversation, I can sue my boss right.

After all, they revealed my sexual orientation without my consent.

Does your heterosexuality get you abuse, have you ever been physically or verbally attacked because of your orientation?

5 ( +10 / -5 )

Does your heterosexuality get you abuse, have you ever been physically or verbally attacked because of your orientation?

I'm merely asking if the right to privacy of sexual orientation applies equally to everybody?

Yes or no?

-13 ( +3 / -16 )

I'm merely asking if the right to privacy of sexual orientation applies equally to everybody?

Or perhaps you're merely doing your thing, as you do on all threads that involve LGBT? Whatever the case, I believe your false equivalencies aren't at all convincing.

BigYen's reply is spot on.

10 ( +12 / -2 )

Or perhaps you're merely doing your thing, as you do on all threads that involve LGBT? Whatever the case, I believe your false equivalencies aren't at all convincing.

I'll take that as a no.

Which means some people in society are granted a right that others are not.

That is wrong.

If we're going to have a right to privacy of sexual orientation than that right should apply equally to all members of society, regardless of their sexual preferences.

-8 ( +5 / -13 )

Which means some people in society are granted a right that others are not.

Have you received prejudice because of your sexual orientation? Have firms refused to hire you, have you been verbally or physically attacked for being heterosexual?

2 ( +8 / -6 )

The man wasn’t outed for being “gay” because he’s not gay. He was outed for being a transsexual man.

That sounds more likely than the story but is also a form of outing in itself that I am now amplifying by mentioning it.

fwiw, I think the guy has a case because of the insensitivity of his boss. Any boss who laughs and says "ABC quit because of you!" in front of others at a booze up is a grade A tool regardless of LGBT matters.

As written, the story assumes the female coworker is a bigot, but it may not be as simple as that. Either way, she deserves a right of reply. Coworkers can not get along for tons of different reasons.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

I have never heard of “being outed as a heterosexual”. Nobody is going to blink an eye if you say you’re married to a woman. Gay people often times, unfortunately, are met with verbal abuse or worse. Transsexual individuals are subjected to even worse abuse and violence, and sometimes death. Think about it. Everyone regardless of sexual orientation has the right to privacy.

8 ( +10 / -2 )

I suppose that the rights of real women - you know, the ones without a beard and meat ‘n’ two veg don’t count?

What, the same women who's concerns as regards equality and feminism you've previously dismissed? Hmmm.

Isn't it that you don't respect trans people - otherwise you wouldn't be deadnaming and rejecting those LGBT who are non-binary - but that your main concern is with the female worker who wasn't mature enough to accept his sexuality?

Doesn't sound sincere to me.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Have you received prejudice because of your sexual orientation? Have firms refused to hire you, have you been verbally or physically attacked for being heterosexual?

I have for not being heterosexual. Luckily I’m white I get the “get out of prison free” card.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

A few months later in summer, a female part-time worker started avoiding him and later quit the job.

I bet she's the sort of person who'd shriek in horror if I whispered 'boo'.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

BurningBushToday  09:04 am JST

As I understand it, the law is quite rightly based on the premise that "we" must respect a person's wish as to whether "they" want to be "outed" or not - a right I would've thought anyone had, both ethically and legally, not to have their sexual orientation broadcast in any public place if they don't wish it, including where they work.

Does that right apply to everybody in society, or just some people?

I think it applies to those to wish to keep their sexual orientation private. There is still a stigma towards homosexuality in Japan, so I can understand why someone would want to keep that private.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

So if my boss says "so-so is married to a woman" to another person in casual conversation, I can sue my boss right.

If your being married was a secret, and he divulged your private information to staff, then most likely, yes. Especially, if it affected your job or worklife.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

This story has so few details that I did a search in Japanese and found this. The little information we have here does match up, and if it the same case, then it sounds like the boss was completely abusing the guy, hitting him and insulting him down the phone. The decision to pursue this as "outing" of a gay man and not some other form of harassment may simply have been a legal convenience one based on LGBT directives that exist in Toshima ku. This Japanese story describes actions that go way beyond outing.

https://www.outjapan.co.jp/lgbtcolumn_news/news/2020/6/12.html

5 ( +5 / -0 )

I am pretty sure there are examples of heterosexuals being verbally abused & had crap talked about their sexuality in front & behind their backs.

I am sure there are guys who when not showing interest in certain women have then had their sexuality questioned in social situations, false rumors spread etc.

What about the term incel, there is a lot of venom & nastiness when supposed incels are discussed.

Look I dont think anyone should have to endure verbal & certainly not physical abuse, but the sad truth is life is messy & some people arent nice at times.

In the J-workplace there are millions of men who are abused in a great many ways by bosses & companies & there is virtually no way an employee can do much of anything, at best they MIGHT get a moral ""win"" after years in court & then receive an insanely low ""settlement""

I think people should be nicer to each other, but folks who are trying to keep secret things like gender or sexuality.......at some point it is going to be revealed, I suppose whether is done innocently or with bad intentions its kind of like porno you cant describe it but you know it when you see it.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

So the woman quit the job just coz she found out one of her co-workers was gay!? Talk about weak minded people. And why should you need to tell your employer what sex you like. That should be non of anyone's business but that person's alone.

Then again, despite Japan generally being open to the idea of gay, lesbianism, etc, rainbow parades in Shibuya and even teaching about it in school (I remember seeing a flyer used at schools teaching that liking the same sex is totally fine) when it comes to the workplace, things are still way behind.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

LGBTQI rights are human rights !!..

Sorry medieval pseudo-christian homophobic losers..

3 ( +9 / -6 )

If your being married was a secret, and he divulged your private information to staff, then most likely, yes.

Thank you Gary.

I consider my marriage and my heterosexual orientation to be a private matter.

Therefore, I can now sue anybody who mentions me being married or who gossips about who I might fancy to be liable for a lawsuit.

-10 ( +2 / -12 )

A few months later in summer, a female part-time worker started avoiding him and later quit the job.

There has to be more to this than just avoidance. I wonder if SHE was attracted to him as a man, and got turned off when she found out he was gay.

She has got issues here too!

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Life used to be so simple (sigh).

Right, where LGBTQ people had to stay in the dark and hide in fear, in many times, for their lives, because of their sexual orientation!

Only people who keep their heads in the sand would ever make a comment like this!

10 ( +10 / -0 )

No man's or company's name makes this article a dry read.The man blah,blah,blah, numerous times or The company blah,blah blah doesn't cut it.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

LGBTQI rights are human rights !!..

Did you accidentally rest your elbow on the keyboard when you wrote that.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

Have you received prejudice because of your sexual orientation?

To be honest, I have.

Although I don't wish to go into details for obvious reasons, women at my work openly gossiped (joked) about their perceptions of my sexuality in my presence.

These were hurtful and would only be hurtful if I were a heterosexual person.

I (we all) should have the same right to privacy as the man in the article is asking for.

All I'm saying is that the right to privacy should be extended to everybody equally.

-10 ( +2 / -12 )

what I wonder is, why did the man tell his boss. a secret ceases to be private information once you tell someone. in actual fact, detail in this article is very thin, and there's plenty of room for ambiguity and interpretation.... but hey, it gets people riled up, and that's what 'the news' is for, right?

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

Out of court shouldn't affect the law. The company seemed to want to save face and pay off the guy without dealing with the problem.

I would have have liked to see staff retrained

4 ( +5 / -1 )

I remember when a “work outing” meant a trip to the seaside on a coach.

Happier times.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

In an effort to be PC, this article is so vague that it barely makes sense.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Although I don't wish to go into details for obvious reasons, women at my work openly gossiped (joked) about their perceptions of my sexuality in my presence.

I found out after a period of years my neighbors were speculating about my sexuality too. My girlfriend of the time was stationed abroad so the neighbors knew nothing about her and I kept mostly to myself but they had to flap their yaps about something I guess. Their problem, not mine. But bringing that sort of thing into the workplace is toxic and doesn't belong. As for the lady who supposedly quite a job because a co worker turned out to be trans sexual, that is entirely her problem. I don't have an ounce of sympathy for her.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Burning Bush Nov. 29 12:39 pm JST

To be honest, I have.

Although I don't wish to go into details for obvious reasons, women at my work openly gossiped (joked) about their perceptions of my sexuality in my presence.

These were hurtful and would only be hurtful if I were a heterosexual person.

If they were calling you gay and it hurt your feelings, but you aren't gay, then you don't actually have the experience of being outed or mocked or denirated for your sexuality. Apples and oranges.

I (we all) should have the same right to privacy as the man in the article is asking for.

All I'm saying is that the right to privacy should be extended to everybody equally.

If there is something you want to keep private, you do indeed have that right. There are no rights being witheld from you due to your heterosexuality.

I hope this answers your question.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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