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Defense ministry wants its own early-warning planes

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The upcoming Kawasaki P-1 is actually equipped with a new AESA called the HPS-106 designed and built by Toshiba. It has four panels for 360 degree coverage. It will also be equipped with a new infra-red scope for missile detection. Capabilities have yet to be revealed but slightly altering the P-1 for total AEW functionality versus maritime patrol could be possibly be kept below a million dollars in investment.

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Nenad Jovanović Sep. 24, 2014 - 05:30AM JST F-2 is joined project of US and Japan military companies , and F-16 is used as a starting point for creating more capable fighter,

More capable fighter at more than 7,000 pounds of additional weight in the enemy territory? I still think F-16 is more capable fighter due to potential lighter load. If fully loaded, it is more like a bomber rather than a fighter plane. The F-2 is larger than the F-16, resulting in a maximum take-off weight of 49,000 lb, compared to the F-16C's 42,000 lb, and both are powered by the same GE F110-129 turbofan engine. F-2 has design changes include radar-absorbent material applied to the aircraft's nose, wing leading-edges and engine inlet, the use of titanium in the tail and fuselage. The primary difference between the F-2 and the F-16 is in the use of Japanese domestic technology for much of the avionics. Reason is that Japan has also been forced to develop its own fly-by-wire software by the U.S. goverment refusal to release the F-16s computer source codes.

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@jokpali

F-2 isnt just a copy of a F-16, read this article, before spaming here with your lies, F-2 is joined project of US and Japan military companies , and F-16 is used as a starting point for creating more capable fighter, with longer range, and with bigger payload , http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/lockheed-mitsubishis-f2-fighter-partnership-03188/ , I write this again, READ CAREFULLY EVERYTHING IN THIS ARTICLE .

The C919 rollout is this week.

Delusioned , here is the truth "The first C919 plane is scheduled to have cockpit system installation and safety checks in 2015, and its maiden flight may occur as early as the end of 2015." Thats the news from ESCN.CN , from yesterday, so, pls , go spread your fantasies elsewhere .

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The F-2 was the first to use carbon composite? WTF? Where have you been, in a cave? They have been used for 50 years. Even the Vickers VC10s used them before you were born. The F16 that the F-2s were copied from are 3% composite. You make no sense. And 787s are flying right this minute using fiber optic avionics. Geez. China fan, no. But I go to Korea and Japan and China 4 times a year and I can make free choices and observations. I am not a citizen of any of those countries. But I know by long experience which of those countries I feel most comfortable in and like best and make my own personal ranking, I limit my business time in Japan as much as possible. About the ARJ-21, it was a practice plane- " it reuses the tooling that was provided by McDonnel Douglas for the production under license of the MD80 in China.[19] However, it was believed to be a practice plane since their new plane, the Comac C919 was completely designed by themselves". The C919 rollout is this week. Check the news. How many MRJs are rolling out? None for 10 years. They are back to design phase due to serious flaws discovered in the design.

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China fan boi, I see.

All recent airplane development project whether it be A-380, Boeing 787, A400M,etc. had been late from schedule in producing actual production models so that is hardly a point of criticism agaisnt Japanese aviation industry. If that was a problem then how about ARJ-21? She made her first madien flight 5 years ago and still is not in mass production stage.

The biggest difference is Japan always tries to push the envelop whether it be F-2 in which was the first to incorporate carbon fiber composite into the fuselage or P-1 utilizes fly by light replacing fly by wires.

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SFJP - I agree. The Chengdu J-20 is a 5th gen using Russian engines for now but the setbacks on the Chinese engines are now close to being overcome. They will enter service in a few years. The new Chinese engines are now based on Pratt and Whitneys and are very close to being ready. Not based on Russian engines anymore. Which would you rather pilot in the engagement to come: a shiny J-20 or a creaky F-2 with 5 or 6 squawks that haven't been fixed? I would never underestimate China and my $100 is on them when it lights up with Japan and Barak steps back and says it's not our fight.

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jokpaliSep. 23, 2014 - 05:01AM JST That is success? I would hate to see what you call failure! Aggressive stupidity?

I wouldn't underestimate China's capabilities. Compare to Japan, China has almost unlimited military budget, and China's air force is pursuing modernization on a scale unprecedented in its history and is rapidly closing the gap with Western air forces across a broad spectrum of capabilities including aircraft, command and control, jammers, electronic warfare and data-links. China is speeding up air and space integration and sharpen offensive and defensive capabilities. However, among the gaps in the modernization that remain is the inability to produce indigenously built engines for China's jet fighters. After decades of attempts, China remains dependent on Russian imports. There is a big advance over where they were, but still not close to state-of-the-art, but I would bet that within a decade to two, they will be a main competitor in many of the latest military hardware.

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"The A320 final assembly line in Tianjin began operations during September 2008 as a joint venture between Airbus and a Chinese consortium of Tianjin Free Trade Zone (TJFTZ) and China Aviation Industry Corporation (AVIC)." A320 full assembly. 737 major outsouced parts construction. Dude. And the F-2!!! LOL. Colossal failure. An F-16 with minor mods that ended up costing 4 times more than a real F-16, that underperforms the original copy. Hundreds planned and program cancelled with only 94 built. That is success? I would hate to see what you call failure! Aggressive stupidity? Who is being aggressive? And stupid? You point to their worst failure the F-2 as a staple? Remind me , what do they scramble to the Senkakus again? Is it F15s or those POS F-2s they cant keep flying bc of maintenance issues???? You've made no points worthy of a discussion. You are in 10th place in avaition, and falling bc C-919 first roll-outs are this week. Wholly Chinese regional jet. Where is the MRJ right now? In mock up? Right, back to design bc of hull issues. Come up with a real argument, not insults. The Japanese are non players even behind India.(Tejas Mark 2) 5th gen.

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This Japan;s plan is to create newer plane. But if you are interested , read History of Aviation in Wikipedia. It says kite time to almost newest. BTW, Mitsubishi had WW II airplane manufactuter division and created Mitsubishi zero/. Now I suspect, it will be a new plane maker for Japan.

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@jokpali

And you forgot F-2 ? Thats a staple of Japan air military force at a moment , they incorporated some high tech things in the time of building it .

China assembles 737s by the hundreds per year.

Again , you show your aggressive stupidity , there is NO assembly line for ANY Boeing airplane in China .

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The ¥80 million would go towards creating a mock-up of an actual plane. If you want one that actually FLEW, you're going to have to spend a heck of a lot more after playing with the mock-up for a while.

Japan currently has 4 E-767 AWACS aircraft and they spent ¥222 Billion 1993 and 1994 for the four planes. In 2006, Japan paid Boeing ¥1.08 Million for Radar System Improvement Program kits for the four planes.

If Japan is looking to replace those four aircraft with one of their own design, they can look at it costing quite a bit more than ¥222 Billion due to inflation and development costs.

South Korea went with the Boeing 737 AWACS version (same as the RAAF) with a fixed electronically scanned array instead of a rotating dish. I guess the Japanese military wouldn't be caught dead suggesting that Japan buy something after South Korea did, so instead they're going to reinvent the wheel again.

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Japan built propeller planes in the 1920's? Japan made a deal to ASSEMBLE some F15J or else they would buy elsewhere??? DUH!!! Korea assembles F15Ks. China assembles 737s by the hundreds per year. Design, testing and certification takes Billions and skill. Assembly can be done anywhere. Japan can't ever even catch up to Brazil and Canada, let alone USA, Russia, EADS. They are in the backwaters of aviation like India. India is attempting the same thing Japan is and my money goes on India. In 2 days an Indian spacecraft arrives in orbit around Mars. The MRJs orders are now in doubt bc of the most recent design problems found. Skywest will drop the order and switch to Embraer or Bombardier. And.......the HondaJet? How far behind is it now? I forget! It looks like a flying Nissan Cube and will sell as well against the Cessna Citation Mustang. However I did fly an AeroSubaru once and it wasn't half bad. Of course it was 90% American. Lycoming engine, US avionics, Cleveland brakes. They sold maybe 200 and gave up. Cessna has built 20000 172s and counting. Japanese AWACS=opium pipe dream. If it ever came into production it would arrive 10 years behind the tech that the Chinese and Americans and EADS and the Russians would be coming out with at the same time. Game over.

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It said that military planners want to complete the development program for planes featuring advanced surveillance radar by the mid-2020s, to replace Japan’s U.S.-made E-2C Hawkeye planes, which are based on a 1960s design.

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Japanese Govt can expect many Japan Inc will cooperate in its plan of development. Although Mitsubishi is not only Japan Inc that has money money money and do not need Govt money to spend.

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WilliB, I think just buying or developing on its own make a big difference as a deterrent effect on China because China always tries to drive a wedge bet Japan and USA

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@kMI I wrote toward someone;s comment '

OS is old. About 50 yearsa ago after DOS era? Under UNIX, compilers are used to create ,EXE files from source codes, These military systems do not use Unix.

I wrote source codes are not needed after I read someone wrote Source Codes were not given.

Please read back thread before you create your accusation

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Why can´t they buy off-the shelf planes? There is hardly an export market for this, so developing this technology independently will just be huge waste of taxpayer money. Is another one of Abe`s failed arrows?

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@toshiko Do you really think the software on these aircraft are update if so your thinking is just as outdated as the DoS code you mentioned these aircraft are constantly being upgraded to the latest and best new technologies if not they would be cecomissioned

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Hmm, I can see where Japan is coming from on this one. Their Hawkeye is quite outdated. Updating it would only help out a little, but not much. All they'd really be doing is updating the equipment, but the plane itself is also outdated. They want to develop something modern that can keep pace with China and Russia's surveillance aircraft, and something that can even rival the US. In tense times like this, being behind the curve is dangerous. They'll probably want to develop something similar to the SR71 Blackbird, but with modern stealth capabilities as well. After all, surveillance aircraft aren't much use if other countries can detect them and hide from them. You can't hide from what you can't see coming. I get the motives, and I fully support that, but the issue is funding. Where exactly is the money going to be coming from? I highly doubt that the public will be too thrilled to have their taxes going towards this instead of towards education or healthcare, for example. Still, the money has to come from somewhere if Japan wants to keep pace and keep their defensive capability as strong as it can be.

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****JAPAN will be rdy to make new advance plane and stelth fithger jet is a no problema fellas...... J apan can do kow how =haaaaaaaaaaaa it is a joke to hear from other people do not undereastimate +++++japan ++++++ japan will bring more advance jet and warning (( awac)) go japan

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Japan is already developing their new maritime patrol aircraft Kawasaki P-1 , here you can see it takes off https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eg-MEeqj1E , Also, the new transport airplane Kawasaki C-2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p99rSn-Vh80 Amphibious aircraft ShinMaywa US-2 , that India wants to buy from Japan , https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vV6NnVTOBjo

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

OS is old. About 50 yearsa ago after DOS era? Under UNIX, compilers are used to create ,EXE files from source codes, These military systenms do not use Unix.

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Mitsubishi MRJ will start flying in 2017, in which 200 aircraft will be built by then. Most probably, the manufacturer of this new early-warning plane will be Mitsubishi.

Out of 220 F-15J, only 12 were built in the United States. The rests were built inside Japan. Also Kawasaki and SHin-Meiwa Aircraft Companies were building propeller planes since 1920's.

Therefore, Japan has the full-industrial capability to build both Jet and Propeller aircraft.

Undoubtedly, Japan is also one of the a top-caliber countries in avionics and electronic surveillance.

Also, Japan had developed a very powerful software that can even control missile defense and missile-attacking system. It is called TRON developed by Tokyo University in early 1980's.... according to some, is even more sophisticated than ADA programming language used by US Military.

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Auhh, in case you haven't heard Japan has one of the best radar systems in the world. Japan is the first to develop the airborne AESA radar and the first minituraized AESA radar to fit in missiles. I believe Japan was also the first in utilizing gallium nitride chips for radar.

Actually, Japan has the first AESA systems (an early version is even on the OPS-24 I believe) b/c they are latecomers to the TWT game, so the point when the advantage of using AESA outweighs using the more tested PESA technologies came earlier for them.

@jokpali

Look at the MRJ....now 3years behind and scant orders.

Well, jokpali, it is always hard to break into an established market. Which is not to say I necessarily disagree with such projects. But the way Japan does them, in effect trying to do them on the cheap, is leaving them not reaching shore in either direction.

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Thank you tina, About 800,000 dollars? I winder which Jaoan Inc will get the contract. Which one has been working with Boeing and American weapon industry?

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toshiko, the article says 80 (not 30) million yen for an initial cost.

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@jokball: So that is why 30 million yen to create new and better product. Don;t worry. JP makers will not waste money to install software inside. Any programmers know software source code can not waste memory space. Compilerrs needed to get executqble codes even tera tera bytes chips are installed. Only 30 million yen . How many dollars? Cheaper than buying out of dated expensive USA product., I'd bet.

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jokpali, If you are right, then it is all the more reason Japan has to build AWACS plane quick, don't you agree?

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Look at the MRJ....now 3years behind and scant orders. It will fail and be cancelled. Bombardier in Montreal is killing them! Brazil has been building Regional Jets for 20 years and Japan can't even build one on their own with 10 years of work, Look at the F-2....HA! So many countries building sophisticated aircraft..US, France, Germany, Italy, England, Sweden, Brazil, Russia, Canada, China. Japan is only building wings for 787 in exchange for orders and even these need extra inspection and rework upon arriving in Everett. The only plane Japan has ever built on it's own was the YS-11 and it was a piece of crap. Now they think they can build an Awacs plane 1/4 as good as an American or Euro one? LOL

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Usually military hardware softwares are encrypted so the enemy would not be able to use it when they are captured. Same with people not having the source codes.

It's also goes against the agreement with the US in utilizing the hardwares any ways.

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You don;t have to create source when there are .....EXE files. Just use your decrypt program to create in you favorite programming language. Source could be written in C, C+, C++, QB45, QB64. Japanese corporation usually look at products and created new kind of better products. Like cars, TV, and never been sued for copycatting.

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Which make any savings reduced to zero since you have to develop the entire software from scratch.

By the way the meaning of source code is basically the entire software itself and since some of them are enbedded in the hardware itself making them very difficult to create bypasses to go around them.

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NO the software is the latest version unfortunately and the very reason why Japan hesitates in acquiring US made defense equipment is because they do not disclose the source codes in operating them making it very difficult in doing maintenace and impossible to modify.

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@Raymond ChuangSEP. 21, 2014 - 09:33PM JST Wouldn't a better solution is either buy the E-2D version of the Hawkeye now in flight development for the US Navy or upgrade the avionics on the Japanese service E-2's to the latest variant of the Hawkeye 2000 standard now used by US Navy E-2C's?

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How much to buy out-of-dated USA products?

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Wouldn't a better solution is either buy the E-2D version of the Hawkeye now in flight development for the US Navy or upgrade the avionics on the Japanese service E-2's to the latest variant of the Hawkeye 2000 standard now used by US Navy E-2C's?

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Auhh, in case you haven't heard Japan has one of the best radar systems in the world. Japan is the first to develop the airborne AESA radar and the first minituraized AESA radar to fit in missiles. I believe Japan was also the first in utilizing gallium nitride chips for radar.

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Japan would be developing a whole new plane to fill a orderbook of 10 for the JASDF - at most.

Far more sensible to either place a repeat order for the E-767 AWACS that Japan already operates, or something similar that is on the market - like the 737 Wedgetail.

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Three of you above, of course Japan has money. It is matter of priority. They have the budget to spend.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

Surveillance planes are not cheap, and with debt at two-and-half times GDP, how does the defense ministry plan to pay for these aircraft? There isn't enough money to pay current obligations, which are steadily becoming more arrears.

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Sounds to me like Mr.Shimazaki is right on the MONEY! What a complete waste of taxes! And what will this do?? Only help ANGER the CHINESE etc..MORE!

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Waste of money. Competent AWACS aircraft are among the most sophisticated items in military aviation. Japan needs to either spend a lot more than US$800,000 (even for an initial project) or accept it won't be able to make one.

4 ( +9 / -5 )

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