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Distrust between South Korea, Japan sky high: poll

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LOL you gotta love the fact that the Japanese view the US as a military threat as well.

Japan, which has made its peace with most of the countries that suffered under its imperialist boot, increasingly views these calls as an attempt by the governments of China and South Korea to bolster their own popularity at home.

Or maybe those 2 countries cannot be easily bought.

-1 ( +9 / -10 )

Koreans and their president find too much value in the bygone matters. Singapore's the late prime minister Lee Kuan Yew once reportedly said to their youngsters that if they have time to study history, they'd better spend the time for learning English and mathematics. He did not find much value in bygone things.

5 ( +13 / -8 )

A record-high 73% of Japanese say their neighbor is untrustworthy, while 85% of South Koreans do not trust Tokyo, a joint survey by the Yomiuri Shimbun and Hankook Ilbo dailies said.

What a divisively written article. These polls are actually showing, a overwhelming distrust of each other's governments, not distrust of each others citizens. Government actions are the cause of most countries problems, they no longer work, nor listen to their citizens and only serve a corporate agendas.

7 ( +10 / -3 )

Japan is basically a poison pill in Korean politics, nobody wants to be associated with Japan and anyone who does so is instantly labeled a traitor. Accordingly, both left wing and right wing politicians have to take a hard stance toward Japan if one was to keep his/her job as an elected politician. In other words, Park has no choice but to continue to take a hard stance toward Japan, because that's what domestic voters want from her.

14 ( +14 / -0 )

Huh, I wonder if there is a connection between these polls and the media constantly showing negative news stories of each others country and having news specials about how what they do in Korea and in China is WRONG! And what we do is right...

Related?

6 ( +10 / -4 )

The U.S. as a military threat? Noooooo. It cannot be. Surely. But I suppose biggest military budget and numerous belligerent actions and invasions must count for something and enlighten the more perceptive.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

'Koreans and their president find too much value in the bygone matters.'

True. Japan's nationalists seem to have more than a passing interest in it as well.

5 ( +10 / -6 )

really? odd. last time I checked we have a record of Korean tourists and if im not mistaken theres a lot of Japanese people that love to go to South Korea on a holiday or fans of kpop artists.

All this hate and distrust is only between the oyaji in the government and the rightwingers

12 ( +15 / -3 )

There is little to no hate among the people. But South Korea's use of anti-Japan sentiment for political and diplomatic purposes, not only aligns itself with China, but interefere's with the US strategic relationship with Japan and South Korea.It;s really about time we told South Korea to start getting real unless they want all US troops out of the Korean Penninsula.

-14 ( +9 / -22 )

What a divisively written article. These polls are actually showing, a overwhelming distrust of each other's governments, not distrust of each others citizens. Government actions are the cause of most countries problems, they no longer work, nor listen to their citizens and only serve a corporate agendas.

Indeed

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Hahha typicaly japanese to somewhat still view u.s. as a military threat

1 ( +6 / -5 )

I really only believe surveys if the entire country is asked. Not 100 people walking around Seoul or Tokyo.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

...so Japan needs to apologize every time south Korea deems it so at their discretion? No they apologized in the 90s...no more is needed...

0 ( +9 / -9 )

Commentators suggest Japanese people are suffering from what they call “Korea-fatigue,” and are tired of Seoul’s demands for repeated apologies for events that took place seven decades earlier.

The Japanese people could simply stop paying attention to their media THAT run Korea related stories

6 ( +8 / -2 )

If these polls truly reflect the beliefs of both peoples, I'm just sad.

I've visited both of these countries and have many friends in both and back home who are descended from these wonderful places. Both have rich histories and both have some embarrassing items in their past. Every country does.

Certainly we can all find a way passed this distrust. We are more alike than different as people.

I hope we can.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

The figures compare with 76% of Japanese who think their government has done enough to atone for its warring past, with 17% who say it has not.<

I didn`t think they knew much about their warring past so how could they have possibly given a logical and informed response?

3 ( +4 / -1 )

It looks more like a cold shoulder to me........than rift!

While leaders of Europe resolved the issues long ago and continuously show sincerity in their actions by focusing on the future not the past, Japan's leadership sends mixed messages which look insincere and the public remains silent.

Why teach about justice and humanity in war? If we are to break the cycle of violence, humankind must constantly be reminded of its own capacity for evil and provide education to its youth on how to prevent crimes against humanity. This is really the main issue here isn't it?

5 ( +6 / -1 )

A poll can be made to say anything, why is the AFP just kicking up dust?

1 ( +2 / -1 )

The results of this poll are hardly surprising. History tends to have a long memory.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Both sides are using right wing politics to hide the fact that their domestic policies are useless and that their politicians are clueless.

Those that suffer are the people of both nations who are caught in the middle, and really don't care about politics.

Both countries' right wingers are doing their respective nations a disservice by continuing to drive divides between their respective nations in the face of a powerful and frightening China.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

This is all political theater. The 'people' on both sides have long reconciled their own thoughts and feelings about the 'wars'. Japan has helped S. Korea build the giant economic engine it is today. Japan has taken in and free of monetary charge, educated thousands upon thousands of S. Koreans and have helped S. Korean build their manufacturing plants. The people stirring this old pot are just doing it for their own selfish political motives. They had better be very, very, .... very wary of alienated Japan because 'Lil Kim Un is going to restart that war in the very near future - Lil' Un's goal is to 'unite' the Korea's......under his rule, make no mistake about that.

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

MERS

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

Tokyo has formally apologised over what it euphemistically calls “comfort women,” notably in 1993, but apparent equivocation by nationalist Abe and others on the right has angered Koreans.

Equivocation?

Use ambiguous language so as to conceal the truth or avoid committing oneself-- Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary

So, the article says that the use of the word "comfort women" angers Koreans? No politicians in Japan use the English word "comfort women". They use the Japanese word ianfu, which was the word used during WW2, and there is nothing ambiguous what it means. Koreans also use the word wianbu, which is the Korean pronunciation of the same word.

The analysis of the article seems off the mark.

Koreans are angry, but it is hard to know, for outsiders, why they are angry and how they could be satisfied. Probably, they do not know, either. I think this is called “Korea Fatigue”.

-6 ( +6 / -12 )

It doesn't matter one whit how many time times Japan apologizes or what those apologies say. Japan could apologize a million times in a million different ways and none of them would be 'good enough' or 'sincere enough' for China and/or Korea as long as they can make political hay at home by bashing Japan.

Japan had many enemies in WWII and somehow they managed to reconcile and be on good terms with all of them with the sole exceptions of the Korea's and China. Think about that for awhile.

-4 ( +6 / -10 )

Sure, until Kim points his rockets at the SK capital. Watch them run for cover behind the USA and Japan protection. Stop it, SK.

-5 ( +6 / -11 )

Other then some politicians or some reporters in Korea, most ordinary Koreans don't give a crap about Japan. They just don't like Japan, and just tend to ignore them. Any Japan related stories in the media, not many people show much interest in them. When they see racist hate marches against Koreans calling for murders and rapes of Koreans all over Japanese cities daily, they just go "yeap, that's Japan, what else is new and who cares", and they just go on their way. It's called "Japan fatigue". Up to not too long ago, Japan was much admired in Korea for their economic achievements. But now that's totally out the window, and Koreans view Japan with disdain and say S.Korea should do everything it can, to avoid becoming like Japan.

In meanwhile in Japan, Japanese TV and media flooded with either Korea bashing news stories or shows making fun of Korea, or shows that claim Japan number one, Japan best, Japanese most superior in the world, and other self-congratulatory messages and self-worships.

0 ( +9 / -9 )

The figures compare with 76% of Japanese who think their government has done enough to atone for its warring past, with 17% who say it has not.

I didn`t think they knew much about their warring past so how could they have possibly given a logical and informed response?

Because there are still people gullible enough to believe that Japanese have no idea about the war, despite it being constantly on the news.

In meanwhile in Japan, Japanese TV and media flooded with either Korea bashing news stories or shows making fun of Korea, or shows that claim Japan number one, Japan best, Japanese most superior in the world, and other self-congratulatory messages and self-worships.

And you and the guy above are stuck in the 90s. Japan has moved on, you might benefit too.

-6 ( +6 / -12 )

I think they are both quite right to distrust the other. China is the only trustworthy country in East Asia.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

HOTMAIL, so sorry to say that I am not Japanese. I have been living and going arround Japan for 15 years now. I do not based my information or knowledge base on tv, books or any reading materials becuase if not all, most of it are poluted and influenced or sometimes paid by. I base my knowledge base purely on myself experience observation and self collection of informatiob directly talking to all walks of people in life. When I see Korean leader talking and feel what they are saying it was always the same matter over and over again. Are you not tired of doing this thing? Every body knows that we should not forget the past, but it much better to spend all the energy on how to improve things for the better of the future. Any way so sorry to say that it better to tell something to kid rather than a people who have closed mind and living in the darkness of the past.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

@ReformedBasher,

You mean the war news that doesnt mention Japans warring past?

5 ( +9 / -4 )

hotmail, you are wrong. "Japan fatigue" refers to koreans getting tired of hating Japan. It's a direct translation and not originally an expression used in Western media.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

Reasons why SK doesn't trust Japan: Japan has not truly atoned for war crimes against SKoreans, and in fact politicians and many Japanese deny what occurred, and trample on the victims. Japanese politicians say apologies are not necessarily, claiming not that they want to give the people of Japan "forward thinking history", when in reality it is an attempt to gloss over the facts of what happened. Japan constantly demands SK go to the ICJ for the Dokdo islands, but when it comes to the Senkakus Japan says there is no dispute and it is not an issue. The Prime Minister is constantly undermining even his own people's wishes and doing what he wants himself in regards to his personal, nationalistic agenda. Japan has helped worsen tensions in the area. Current lawmakers and politicians are demanding the US and other nations change their history textbooks to remove references to sex slaves, and also to remove any statues or commemorations. An Olympic swimmer steals a camera from a South Korean journalist, then later denies it, with right wingers in the nation blaming it on South Koreans and saying the person was framed due to some sort of conspiracy. Wingers in Japan are not adequately punished, if at all, for going to Korean schools or neighbourhoods and shouting at second generation residents to "Die, cockroaches!" and "go home!". Abe wants to change article 9 (despite public opposition) and rebuild Japan's military, etc. Etc., etc., etc.

Reasons Japan doesn't trust South Korea: South Korean dramas and pop stars are more popular than their home grown talent, both in Japan (especially rentals of the former) and abroad. Japanese historians and politicians are now siding with the rest of the world and saying Abe should stick to and reiterate past apologies; therefore it is a Korean conspiracy. Samsung is outselling Panasonic by a long shot, and the South Koreans beat Japan in the DARPA competition. South Korea rips off the ideas for Japanese sweets, the claimants forgetting that Lotte is actually a Korean run company (and therefore sells the same stuff in Korea under different names). South Korea wins far more medals in the Olympics.

Put mildly, there is no reason why Japan should not trust South Korea unless it's to be quiet about Japanese wrong doings, while South Korea has a whole lot of reasons, grounded in history and practice, not to trust Japan. However, it would be childish of BOTH nations to not try and take steps forward. This, unfortunately, will not happen until Japan addresses the past earnestly and honestly. After that, as with Germany and other nations in Europe, they can move forward and help each other flourish.

-6 ( +11 / -17 )

smithinjapanJun. 10, 2015 - 04:03PM JST

Reasons Japan doesn't trust South Korea: South Korean dramas and pop stars are more popular than their home grown talent,

Thanks for the bad taste joke. That is not why the Japanese do not trust the South Koreans. The reason is evident in your comment.

This is what you said.

Japan has not truly atoned for war crimes against SKoreans

A war crime is a crime against enemy nation, enemy soldiers, or enemy civilians during a war. Was Korea enemy of Japanese Empire during WW2? The world historians agree that Korea was part of Japan and was not a member of Allied Nations against Japan. However, Koreans learn in school that Korea was a member of Allies. This falsehood makes them think Korea is entitled to atonement for "war crimes". This is just one example of how history is distorted in South Korean schools.

Japanese politicians say apologies are not necessarily,

Many Japanese politicians have said apologies are necessary and Japan has made several apologies. The problem is unquantified comments like yours are everywhere in Korean press. In the eyes of Japanese, they are in the wrong side of the borderline between truth and untruth. They are skillfully calculated comments to give people wrong understanding. What is this kind of comments called in English? This is another reason Japanese do not trust the Koreans.

I can go on with every sentence you made, but stop here to spare time.

1 ( +13 / -12 )

"They are skillfully calculated comments to give people wrong understanding. What is this kind of comments called in English?"

LDP propaganda ?

2 ( +7 / -5 )

Personal opinion based on empirical knowledge: I would trust one of these countries no better than I would trust a viper.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

CH3CHO: "Thanks for the bad taste joke."

Truth hurts, eh? Same about the TV dramas as it is with Samsung. Ouch!

"The reason is evident in your comment."

yes, the comment that Japan has not properly atoned for its war crimes is indeed a reason why SK shouldn't trust Japan.

Oh, but wait... YOU were saying: "The world historians agree that Korea was part of Japan and was not a member of Allied Nations against Japan."

Yeah, because they were best friends in the world! That's why Japan carried out vivisections on living people, raped the women, bayonetted them if they got pregnant, used them as slave labor, and just plain slaughtered them if enemy troops were advancing! With friends like that... as the saying goes. And I bet you those same historians wouldn't admit they were quite the pals that you claim they were, any more than Poland were great friends with Germany and there were no war crimes committed by the Nazis against them, either, right?

And I notice you could not answer my question. Do you deny the rape of Nanking happened and/or that women were forced into sexual slavery? If you can answer that you do not deny those incidents, simply with a 'no', then I will be able to take apologies by Japan more seriously. If you cannot admit it, or try to defend it in some way or say the facts have been distorted, etc., then you canNOT seriously claim Japan has honestly apologized at all. Period.

"Koreans learn in school that Korea was a member of Allies. This falsehood makes them think Korea is entitled to atonement for "war crimes". This is just one example of how history is distorted in South Korean schools."

Oh, please! And you learn in Japan that Japan was just "defending Asia" and 'bringing stability to Asia', that 'bad things happened', just not by Japan. Abe wants to take that a step further in the WRONG direction, as do you. But tell me, which is worse? SKorean textbooks saying SK was with the Allies, or Japan white-washing it's crimes against humanity and war crimes? If you want to say SK is guilty of altering texts and white-washing history, I can agree that it happens there to, but you cannot even admit to that happening in Japan!!

"Many Japanese politicians have said apologies are necessary and Japan has made several apologies. "

All cancelled out by your comments. And NONE of the apologies have been official and adopted by the DIET, have they? They have, in fact, been called by subsequent PMs who disagreed with the people who apologized, "personal opinions that do not necessarily reflect that of the government".

"In the eyes of Japanese"

I think you should say, "right-wing extremists" and not generalize to mean all Japanese. You insult the nation by suggesting people don't trust SKoreans for pointing out crimes THEIR ancestors committed! (or they themselves).

"They are skillfully calculated comments to give people wrong understanding. What is this kind of comments called in English?"

Allistair Carnell nailed it.

But first, let's hear you answer my question about the sex slaves (or "comfort women" if you use your watered down version of the truth) and atrocities like Nanjing.

-2 ( +10 / -12 )

Samsung may be outselling and profiteering. However Some models of Samsung washing machines have burnt the consumers laundries. Panasonic may be losses makers however it has better safety records. If I can afford I prefer to buy sharp TV over LG. Japanese brands are losing market however they are reputable. I trust more on Panasonic over Samsung.

Korean drama boys over flowers based on Japanese mega, They have copied many old J dramas. The reason of K pop and drama success are heavily backed up by the government. In my view, both SK and Japan should move forward as friendly neighbors. Bygone is bygone.

-7 ( +3 / -11 )

@Zenpun "If I can afford I prefer to buy sharp TV over LG."

Me too.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Zenpun: " I trust more on Panasonic over Samsung."

A lot of Japanese do, doesn't mean the rest of the world does, and clearly Samsung sales reflect that.

"Korean drama boys over flowers based on Japanese mega, They have copied many old J dramas."

And Japanese manga, anime, and movies have also copied the stories from other nations as well. So what? Don't forget only a month or two back there was an entire manga industry complaining about potential laws on copywright because their entire industry depends on copying characters and story from elsewhere and they might "cease to exist". Don't attribute Korea's success to Japan, or else you need to do the same with successes in Japan.

" In my view, both SK and Japan should move forward as friendly neighbors. Bygone is bygone."

Couldn't agree with you more, but it'll never be a bygone so long as ignorance on both sides exists in the present, and to start to get past this we need an honest apology from the government -- one that goes on record and is recognized in the DIET. I'm sorry, but until then, and especially with Abe and Co. trying to "rewrite" past apologies, it'll never be a bygone despite the desire for it to become so.

-1 ( +9 / -10 )

smithinjapanJun. 10, 2015 - 06:39PM JST

That's why Japan carried out vivisections on living people,

Chinese probably. Koreans most unlikely.

raped the women,

Chinese women definitely. Korean women unlikely. Rape victims and prostitutes are two different groups.

bayonetted them if they got pregnant,

If you are talking about Korean ianfu, most unlikely.

used them as slave labor,

Japan drafted Korean men for conscripted workers. By the international treaties, conscripted workers for public purposes are different from slave laborers.

and just plain slaughtered them if enemy troops were advancing!

Most unlikely.

See. Trust will not develop, if the other side has distorted view. Yet you refuse to give any evidence.

-2 ( +7 / -9 )

Fuji TV runs a 2 hour program, insulting South Korea.

http://news.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2015/06/10/2015061001941.html

In the show, which was named as "Korea's Enigma", Japanese panelists sit around and "examines" South Korea's society for two hours and make insulting comments.

One panelist says:

"South Korea is a country in which was created like a pumpkin when Japan abandoned the country at the end of WWII".

Another panalists says:

"South Korea has no manners that's why it can't accept Japanese apology".

Another says:

"Germany is surrounded by polite and good countries that's why they accepted German apology, but Japan is neighbored by a country that sucks".

The panelist also verbally attack South Korea's pop culture, and says it's a plot by Korean government to brainwash the world (isn't Japan's "Cool Japan" designed to do that?).

On and on for two hours.

0 ( +7 / -7 )

Trust or not, huge numbers of tourists from both countries visit the other country, so I have to think things can be worked out sooner or later.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

For me it is still hard to grasp that to so great countries that have so much in common are so at odds with each other. Both Japan and South Korea are fascinating cultures with kind, intelligent and very skilled people who could learn a lot from each other.

The diametrically opposed way history is interpreted in the two countries is responsible for a lot but not all of the distrust.

Most Koreans feel that they were humiliated by the Japanese during the colonial period, whereas most Japanese seem to be wondering why Koreans don't appreciate that Japanese kindly "developed" Korea.

While there were a number of official apologies from Japan nobody I have spoken to in Japan was able to explain what was so terrible about the Japanese rule in Korea. Most Japanese seem to think Koreans are complaining about peanuts and apparently have no understanding of the deep humiliation that the Japanese way of subjugating Koreans from 1910 to 1945 has brought about that proud country.

So looking at the historic events it is clear why Koreans could be biased against Japan, but where does this widespread and vicious Korea bashing (to call that “Korea-fatigue” is kind of euphemistic) in Japan nowadays come from?

I don't think such apparent hate can only stem from the fact that Koreans still hesitate to fully condone. Or is it normal for a perpetrator who said sorry to hate his victim if it doesn't condone in due time?

I believe the deeply irrational hate that many Japanese are currently cultivating towards Koreans is only understandable as mixture of different issues:

... first the lack of knowledge about historical facts and thus the lack of empathy for the victim of Japanese imperial rage,

... secondly bad conscience, because most Japanese still feel that Japan did something wrong and they really don't like to be reminded of that,

... and thirdly a somewhat childish kind of frustration about not being understood, something like "oh we went out of our way and begged pardon on our bended knees and you don't love us for that?"

While I do find Japanese very cultured and usually also very sensitive people I often observe that it is hard for Japanese to empathize with people from other cultures. I'm often astonished by the gap between the level of empathy for Japanese victims of foreign crimes and non-Japanese victims of Japanese crimes in the Japanese media.

So periodically the Japanese media is full of Hiroshima, Nagasaki, North Korea, ISIS, etc. while except for the badly bashed Asahi Nanking, the victims of the Japanese colonial era, Comfort Women, etc. are hardly ever mentioned and there are absolutely no official memorials in Japan for such victims compared to numberless memorials for Japanese victims.

I suppose this must be a result of century long isolation and indoctrination against foreigners.

4 ( +9 / -5 )

Correction: there is no distrust between the two peoples -- only between the politicians. The politicians love to start fights, but always send others to fight them.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

Sure, until Kim points his rockets at the SK capital. Watch them run for cover behind the USA and Japan protection. Stop it, SK.

Not too sure about that. Those ROK Marines are BAMF. A couple Battalions of them along with reg. infantry, air support + USN and Kim will have his hands full.

It's more like: "What can Japan do?". . . . Eh?

1 ( +2 / -1 )

@ReformedBasher, You mean the war news that doesnt mention Japans warring past?

I'm going to assume this is an attempt at humour, you don't speak/read Japanese at a level where you can actually understand the news, or deluding yourself.

The 10 seconds I spent writing the above sentence, and this, is about as much energy I can muster as to caring which of the above is true.

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

@ReformedBasher,

Level 2 and they candy coat everything.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Real reason is that koreans and kapanese are like this. Nothing will change.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

bam_booJun. 10, 2015 - 11:52PM JST

first the lack of knowledge about historical facts and thus the lack of empathy for the victim of Japanese imperial rage,

News on Korea Japan relationship are reported as the top news almost every week in Japan. Do you think Japanese are unconcerned?

Just drop in any bookstore in Japan and you can find a large collection of bestselling books on Korea Japan relationship and ianfu. They are not cheap and emotional books, but are written with solid logic and overwhelming reference to primary evidence. It has been more than 30 years since the time ianfu became a major political issue between Korea and Japan, and all the while the Japanese paid quite a lot of attention to the matter. There are books from both right and left. But it is painfully clear, right or left, that almost all of Korean former ianfu are not telling the truth in important details. Thus Japanese think Koreans are untrustworthy.

Now, you said "lack of knowledge". But the situation is not lack of knowledge. Japanese know far too much and think Koreans are not telling the truth in important details. This situation will not improve as long as Koreans falsely believe "lack of knowledge" is the root cause of the issue.

One more question is who made you believe the "lack of knowledge" is the problem? Give a hard look at that media.

-3 ( +2 / -6 )

Distrust between South Korea, Japan sky high: poll

The US is at least partly to blame - for encouraging an expanded Japanese military - while at the same time not bringing Mr Abe to heel for his revisionism. If the US wants more cooperative allies, it will have to take a firmer line with Mr Abe. That standing ovation he received after his congress speech did not help

It has been more than 30 years since the time ianfu became a major political issue between Korea and Japan,

I have no idea what "ianfu" is. I'm familiar with the word sex slave. Did you know that's the word most of us use?

3 ( +5 / -2 )

CH3CHO: "See. Trust will not develop, if the other side has distorted view. Yet you refuse to give any evidence."

You've been given proof countless times, but it's hard to see with the blinders on. If anyone has a distorted view of history, it's you, and that is not "most unlikely", but 100% fact. You guys constantly drone on about how "only Koreans demand an apology" and what not, but when Dutch women come forward and express their anger at Abe's denials and how Japan is denying history through white-washed texts and the desire to rescind apologies, you deflect and deny even more. Heck, you can't even address the forced suicides of your own people in Okinawa! Or, despite it being well known fact is it 'most unlikely' to you as well?

2 ( +3 / -1 )

smithinjapanJun. 11, 2015 - 06:14PM JST

You've been given proof countless times,

When did you give proof to this allegation of yours?

Japan carried out vivisections on living people, raped the women, bayonetted them if they got pregnant, used them as slave labor, and just plain slaughtered them if enemy troops were advancing!

Your style of argument is to present allegation without any proof.

You guys constantly drone on about how "only Koreans demand an apology"

When did I say so?

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

@ CH3CHO JUN. 11, 2015 - 02:33PM JST

Just drop in any bookstore in Japan and you can find a large collection of bestselling books on Korea Japan relationship and ianfu.

Oh yes, with the large majority being racist, anti-Korean books about how great and generous Japan was towards Korea and how ungrateful Koreans are. I didn't try to count, but I believe somewhere around 70% to 90% of books about Japanese-Korean history published in Japan over the past decade are justifying the Japanese conduct towards Korea. There are titles like "The true story about the Korean annexation" and "Japan saved Korea" or "Japan developed Korea" etc. etc.

All those books and their authors don't care a jot about how Koreans experienced the Japanese colonialisation.

Now, you said "lack of knowledge".

Mainly lack of knowledge about why Koreans felt that the Japanese rule was so humiliating. I was not talking about the "comfort women" issue at all, but about the pejorative and disrespectful way the Japanese subjugated Koreans during the colonial era from 1910 to 1945.

Have you ever thoroughly listened to stories about the humiliation that Koreans experienced under Japanese rule, CH3CHO? I don't think so otherwise you would be much more careful with judging Korean sentiment towards Japan.

One more question is who made you believe the "lack of knowledge" is the problem?

Because of the loads of racist anti-Korean books and the vast amount of Korean insulting statements on the net. If there had been true knowledge there would have been true remorse and then there wouldn't be such a massive hate speech problem. This is all a sign of a lack of knowledge about Koreans and how they see the shared history.

There is loads of right-wing propaganda videos and images about anti-Japanese incidents in Korea on the net and many Japanese seem to believe that this is business as usual in Korea when it is isolated actions of a few extremists. More and more Japanese seem inclined to believe such hate driven propaganda more then the serious media reports. That is a lack of knowledge, or to be more precise, a lack of interest in true knowledge.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

This better:

"Yeah sure China & SKorea have been acting like A$$ES, BUT it all boils down to this basically:

SKorea feels Japan is INSINCERE wrt to WWI & this is ABOSOLUTELY TRUE!

Japan is upset at SKorea because...........drum roll..................SKorea is upset with Japan

It really is that simple at the core of all this.

So all that has to happen is for Japan to FINALLY deal with WWII properly then Japan can tell SKorea & China as well Bugger -Off!!

But alas Japan is nowhere near this stage, hence the problems all round

There DONE!"

3 ( +4 / -1 )

More and more Japanese seem inclined to believe such hate driven propaganda more then the serious media reports

Well the problem is, more and more serious media in Japan are starting to sound like the propaganda spewed by the right wing.

These are clips of a 2 hour anti-Korean show which aired on Fuji Tv.

http://news.naver.com/main/read.nhn?mode=LSD&mid=shm&sid1=104&oid=448&aid=0000111537

Does the mood around the Japanese people propel these kinds of shows, or are these the shows that propel the mood of Japanese people? How does this work?

3 ( +6 / -3 )

I cannot agree more with the different views of every netizen. Hate is always driven by nationalists. Heres an example. http://www.who-sucks.com/people/the-exciting-world-of-south-korean-protests

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

kiyoshiMukai, those were extreme cases of protesting dating back almost 10 years ago. Today, S. Korea is a lot more milder, as those kinds of violent protests are no longer accepted by the broad general public. And not all of the pictures shown in your link, were protests against Japan either.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

South Korea is being duplicitous, to put it mildly. Japan paid. It did so and enjoyed nary a complaint in the immediate years after the South Korean government negotiated in 1965, presumably in good faith, a settlement of the reparations issue. But South Korean politicians with selective memory over the past two decades have taken this long-settled matter and spun it into guaranteed votes at the South Korean poll by glossing completely over the fact that the South Korean government not only received large sums of money in the form of over $800 million in grants and soft loans, over $6 billion in today's dollars but also declined specifically to allow Japan to dispense this money to individual victims of Japan's aggression, stating that it would prefer the money in a lump sum to dispense as it saw fit. Needless to say, none of that $800 million made it into the hands of the slave laborers or "comfort women." Where did that money go? Why aren't South Koreans angrier with their own government for not being able to answer this question?

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Agreement_Between_Japan_and_the_Republic_of_Korea_Concerning_the_Settlement_of_Problems_in_Regard_to_Property_and_Claims_and_Economic_Cooperation

Article II

3 As a condition to comply with the provisions of paragraph 2 above, no claims shall be made with respect to the measures relating to the property, rights, and interests of either High Contracting Party and its people which were brought under the control of the other High Contracting Party on the date of the signing of the present Agreement, or to all the claims of either High Contracting Party and its people arising from the causes which occurred prior to that date.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

bam_booJun. 11, 2015 - 11:15PM JST

Have you ever thoroughly listened to stories about the humiliation that Koreans experienced under Japanese rule, CH3CHO? I don't think so otherwise you would be much more careful with judging Korean sentiment towards Japan.

The problem is Koreans do not know their own history. For example, they learn that use of the Korean language was prohibited during the annexation period, which was not true. They learn 40% of arable land in Korea was stolen by Japanese when the land register was introduced. However, Seoul University Yi Yeong Hun checked the land register one by one and found that more than 99% of the land were registered to be owned by Koreans. They learn Koreans were forced to change their names into Japanese style, but the reality was that the name change was optional and many did not change their names. They learn Japan ousted Korean King and the royal family. However, Korean King retained the title of King of Korea, and it was President Syngman Rhee who ousted them after the end of WW2.

Korean schools teach their kids these falsehood and more to induce hate against Japanese. If they feel humiliated, it is because of the falsehood they learn at school.

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

For example, they learn that use of the Korean language was prohibited during the annexation period, which was not true. They learn 40% of arable land in Korea was stolen by Japanese when the land register was introduced. However, Seoul University Yi Yeong Hun checked the land register one by one and found that more than 99% of the land were registered to be owned by Koreans. They learn Koreans were forced to change their names into Japanese style, but the reality was that the name change was optional and many did not change their names.

These are pretty accepted facts - you're going to have to show some solid evidence to show that it is incorrect.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Mr Abe is hardly helping matters with his revisionist agenda

4 ( +6 / -2 )

StrangerlandJun. 12, 2015 - 11:36AM JST

These are pretty accepted facts - you're going to have to show some solid evidence to show that it is incorrect.

Thank you for proving my point.

Language: April 2, 1940 edition of Dong A Ilbo written in Korean. http://news.donga.com/Pdf?ymd=19400402

Land: An article by professor Yi Yeong Hun. http://www.newdaily.co.kr/news/article.html?no=26765

그렇게 분쟁을 거쳐 남은 국유지는 전국의 총 484만 정보의 토지 가운데 12.7만 정보에 불과했습니다. 그것마저 대부분 1924년까지 일본 이민이 아니라 조선인 연고 소작농에게 유리한 조건으로 불하해 버렸습니다

So, after litigations, the resulting government land (confiscated land) was only 127,000 jongbo (1 jongbo=9917m^2) out of 4,840,000 jongbo of all land in Korea. Furthermore, most of the government land was sold, not to Japanese, but to Korean peasants at advantageous prices.

Name Change: Read the wiki article about Koreans who did not change their names. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C5%8Dshi-kaimei#Name_registration_of_prominent_individuals

King of Korea: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yi_Un

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

@ CH3CHO JUN. 12, 2015 - 11:32AM JST

The problem is Koreans do not know their own history.

Citing a Korean professor with extrem views, and without any international academic credentials, as proof for your claim is not very convincing. Mainstream academics say that at the end of the Japanese rule more then 50% of the arable land was owned by Japanese.

Similar with your other claims about Korean history that seem to completely ignore the fact that Koreans were subjugated and discriminated by Japanese, didn't have the political freedom to decide on anything and didn't have an equal legal status within the Japanese empire.

Could it be that you are getting your information about Korea mainly by reading the Japanese right-wing publications mentioned above? Your claims are an exact mirror of their allegations.

To be clear, the way you refer to Korea and Koreans in your posts here exposes exactly the same kind of potentially racist "I know better what is good for you" chauvinism that Japanese imperialists employed to justify their subjugation of other asian cultures at the beginning of the 20th century.

How Koreans from 1910 to 1945 have experienced the Japanese rule is solely up to their perception and not something you are able to define, CH3CHO.

Obviously you haven't learned the most important lessons from history and I believe the way of thinking you seem to exemplify here poses a threat to Japans future.

@ sfjp330 JUN. 12, 2015 - 05:35AM JST

What you say about the 1965 treaty is inconsistent in two accounts.

First, the fact that the Korean dictator Park didn't compensate individuals has been widely discussed and criticized in Korea and the majority of Koreans believes it is an issue that the Korean government has to address.

Second, bilateral treaties of the kind between Korea and Japan are meant to reestablish diplomatic and economic relations, they are not able to provide absolute justice for all issues that can arise after their signature. Even in the treaty itself it is envisaged that there would be cases that are not covered by the treaty and therefor it provides a structure for solving those conflicts.

Germany is very familiar with this topic and has repeatedly reevaluated former treaties that seem to exclude future claims by individuals and payed compensation to such individuals for example to forced laborers and other individual victims.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Thank you for proving my point.

How did I prove your point? I asked you to back up your point. A question does not make proof.

Language: April 2, 1940 edition of Dong A Ilbo written in Korean. http://news.donga.com/Pdf?ymd=19400402

Sorry, I don't read Korean. Point not made.

Land: An article by professor Yi Yeong Hun. http://www.newdaily.co.kr/news/article.html?no=26765

Another Korean article. Point still not made. Sure you provided a translation of one excerpt, but there is nothing in that excerpt to show that he didn't just make it up. Point not made.

Name Change: Read the wiki article about Koreans who did not change their names. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C5%8Dshi-kaimei#Name_registration_of_prominent_individuals

Looks legit. I'll accept that they were not required to change their names.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

bam_boo JUN. 12, 2015 - 02:37PM JST Second, bilateral treaties of the kind between Korea and Japan are meant to reestablish diplomatic and economic relations, they are not able to provide absolute justice for all issues that can arise after their signature. Even in the treaty itself it is envisaged that there would be cases that are not covered by the treaty and therefor it provides a structure for solving those conflicts.

What your saying for example is that Dokdo/Takeshima was "not covered by the (1965) treaty and therefor it provides a structure for solving those conflicts"? So it's negotiable today? In 1965, Korean and Japanese representatives initialed agreements on all the outstanding issues except the issue of the Dokdo/Takeshima Islets in the East Sea of Korea. President Park insisted on keeping the issue out of the treaty.

I

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

bam_booJun. 12, 2015 - 02:37PM JST

Citing a Korean professor with extrem views,

What is unique about Professor Yi Yeong Hun at Seoul National University is that he is the only person who studied the land registries one by one and reached at his conclusion. No one else has ever done the exhaustive study. Everyone else made some dubious guessing of his liking and concluded what percentage of land Japan stole from Koreans in a garbage-in-garbage-out estimation. So, unless someone does an exhaustive study and find something other than what Professor Yi has found, I will not change my conclusion.

the Korean dictator Park didn't compensate individuals

He was the elected president of Korea. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Korean_presidential_election,_1963 The treaty was ratified by Korean Congress. Since the money was received by the Korean Government, why does not it distribute the money to the victims NOW?

StrangerlandJun. 12, 2015 - 02:59PM JST

Language: April 2, 1940 edition of Dong A Ilbo written in Korean. http://news.donga.com/Pdf?ymd=19400402

Sorry, I don't read Korean. Point not made.

Existence of Korean newspaper is enough of evidence that the Korean language was not prohibited.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

If you read the Korean net or news media, you will notice that most Koreans do not care a lick about Japan. Japan is looked down upon as a nuisance that should be ignored. Korea has no reason to respect Japan these days considering their weak tech, economy and cultural impact. Insincerity in past "apologies" only magnify this passive aggressive behavior further.

The Japanese net is the polar opposite. If you read yahoo japan or 2ch, Korea related articles dominate. The Japanese net is absolutely obsessed with Korea. The most viewed articles on yahoo Japan are usually related to Korea. Its gotten to the point where Korean netizens refer to Japanese netizens as "stalkers"(which they absolutely are).

Books about Korea are always best sellers in Japan while books about Japan in Korea are entirely ignored and never make the top 100. Try typing "Korea" in Japanese on youtube and you'll be bombarded with hate video after hate video. Crazy right wing stalkers obssessed with Korea. Type "Japan" in Korean on youtube and you will find mostly random videos and ambivalence. This just shows the level of obsession between the two countries.

I think the Japanese should take a chill pill and quit behaving like stalkers.

-1 ( +4 / -4 )

My folks have an LG TV. Everything looks like Masterpiece Theatre. How did that happen?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@ sfjp330 JUN. 13, 2015 - 12:07AM JST

Don't know why you bring in the Dokdo/Takeshima issue here, but the 1965 agreement was surely not meant to define and solve all past and future bilateral issues between Korea and Japan. It was mainly created to reestablish diplomatic relations and create a certain degree of security for both parties.

If you're interested in the details of what I'm talking about the text is online at:

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Agreement_Between_Japan_and_the_Republic_of_Korea_Concerning_the_Settlement_of_Problems_in_Regard_to_Property_and_Claims_and_Economic_Cooperation

Article III, paragraph 1 and 2

Agreements between sovereign nations are not like contracts between individuals. They have to take into account that nations are defined by domestic policies and if the foundations of treaties change, for example like in the case of Korea, that changed from a dictatorship to a democracy, it can happen that treaties or certain parts of the treaties are deemed unconstitutional and have to be reinterpreted or changed. That's what we call diplomacy.

@ CH3CHO JUN. 13, 2015 - 03:07AM JST

What is unique about Professor Yi Yeong Hun at Seoul National University is that he is the only person who studied the land registries one by one

Who claims that? Professor Yi Yeong Hun? How could he have done such a research? I am a researcher and I'm quite sure that no single person could possibly check all historic land registries of a nation of the size of Korea thoroughly one by one. To me that sounds more like one of the many propaganda myths created by some Japanese right-winger.

the Korean dictator Park didn't compensate individuals

He was the elected president of Korea.

What makes you believe this was a legitimate and free election? Park had been a dictator for two years and Koreans were under the strickt surveillance of the Korean Central Intelligence Agency. Just another indicator that you have no idea about Korean history.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

bam_booJun. 13, 2015 - 06:58PM JST

Who claims that? Professor Yi Yeong Hun?

Yes, he does.

How could he have done such a research?

His lab team did that.

Agreements between sovereign nations are not like contracts between individuals. They have to take into account that nations are defined by domestic policies and if the foundations of treaties change

Indeed, treaties are not like contracts between individuals. Treaties are governmed by Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties and the previous international costoms summarized into the Convention. Have you read the convention?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna_Convention_on_the_Law_of_Treaties

Election fraud is no good reason to question the validity of a treaty.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

@ CH3CHO JUN. 14, 2015 - 03:00PM JST

Who claims that? Professor Yi Yeong Hun?

Yes, he does.

How could he have done such a research?

His lab team did that.

From what I know there was and is no central land register in Korea and after the breaking up of Korea how could any researcher gain access to all historic documents in both Koreas? And we are talking about hundred-thousands if not millions of historic documents from several decades spread over numerous locations that have to be not only read but also properly verified and interpreted.

Sorry, but this sounds absolutely not credible and unless you prove your claims and explain how such an research process could have been carried out in a realistic manner I would say either your source or Professor Yi Yeong Hun is lying.

Again, I believe this must be one of the many factoids or false claims about Korea of Japanese right-wingers.

Treaties are governmed by Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties

Thanks for the link.

I don't really understand which part of the convention is disapproving my statement though. While I do believe bilateral or international treaties should be seen as binding, treaties with non-democratic states have clear limits in regards to whether they reflect the will of the people of such states.

Btw, the treaty was adopted on 22 May 1969.

Election fraud is no good reason to question the validity of a treaty.

It is a good reason to doubt the validity of a dictator in regard to representing his people.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

bam_booJun. 15, 2015 - 11:55AM JST

So, you say no one has ever studied the actual amount of land the Governor General confiscated as a result of the Land Survey during 1910s. If what you say were true, the allegation that the Governor General took 40 % of the land is also hoax and baseless.

It is a good reason to doubt the validity of a dictator in regard to representing his people.

I remember the USA as well as all other countries in the Western bloc recognized Park Chung Hui the legitimate president of Korea.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

I remember the USA as well as all other countries in the Western bloc recognized Park Chung Hui the legitimate president of Korea

Korea got the short end of the stick vis a vis Japan, for over 35 years. Rather than citing the "blood money" that was thrown at South Korea in 1965 - Japan should be teaching their school children the truth of what they did.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

CH3CHO JUN. 15, 2015 - 02:58PM JST

If what you say were true, the allegation that the Governor General took 40 % of the land is also hoax and baseless.

Many researchers have studied the matter, but I believe they were only able to look at a fraction of the actual land registers and then project numbers. I know of studies that looked at several example villages and did an in depth study of the land registers there, but even such a very limited research took years.

So I don't want to claim anything about Korean land registers, but what I do know is that Korea between 1910 and 1945 was ruled by Japan. Koreans were not free, but under a military regime without sovereign rights. They were subjugated and faced drastic punishment if they stud up against their oppressors. So landownership is a subordinate issue.

And we have to keep one thing in mind, while being colonialised is surely horrible in any case to be colonialised by a direct neighbor with whom you had century long cultural ties and with whom you felt closely related is in a special way humiliating.

So again, I can easily understand why Koreans distrust Japanese and react (or sometimes overreact) to any kind of Japanese revisionism, but I have difficulties to understand the current wave of hate against Koreans in Japan.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Japan forcefully invaded Korea and any visit to Seoul's War Museum will quickly open anyone's eyes to the brutality and force that were used under military occupation. Japanese people have little idea of the suffering that occurred during this period. In spite of this I know both Japanese and Koreans that feel no animosity over these past conflicts.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Exactly

1 ( +1 / -0 )

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