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Women in Tokyo strongly back single-sex transport amid security fears: global poll

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By Machel Reid and Beh Lih Yi

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Fine, giving women separate trains and seating is well and good. I would however strongly suggest that the society take a good hard look in the mirror to get to the root of the problem, men who prey on women.

34 ( +38 / -4 )

I don't think women-only carriages make a difference because everyone including men gets on them at rush hour and at night," said Dominguez, who spends 90 minutes a day on the metro. "It also doesn't deal with the problem."

Because there is in effect no law that says they can not. It's a courtesy of the railway companies and if they want it to be successful THEY have to get these guys to move, but they wont.

They expect people to cooperate, you know the collective "group" mentality, work together, rah-rah-rah kind of thing!

Until it doesn't....(start the sound of sucking teeth tape)

4 ( +7 / -3 )

What we need to do is focus on the men's behavior

NO! What you need to do is focus on the problem not one sex. I was felt up my a old woman on a semi packed train years ago.

-6 ( +11 / -17 )

I think less crowded trains is the only practical solution. But how to achieve that?

14 ( +16 / -2 )

They should also offer men-only carriages. Both are a good thing in my book.

0 ( +14 / -14 )

In order to be fair they need at least 5 more cars, one each for L,G,B,T,Q.

-1 ( +22 / -23 )

I think less crowded trains is the only practical solution. But how to achieve that?

The answer is simple, but to put into practice would be a nightmare.

Have about 5 or 6 million people live and work somewhere else!

10 ( +12 / -2 )

Good golly, I really think someone is trying to create controversy with this !

I really really do ! I don’t believe that a Japanese men are monsters. The vast majority are hard working individuals with morals and manners. Japanese women like them !

Most studies like this are fake. Yesterday there was a story in the news that men with beards are more attractive....to who ? Probably men with beards are attracted to themselves and conducted a study amongst themselves.

Japanese society is under attack by the same forces of evil that oppose Individual liberty and freedom.

-10 ( +12 / -22 )

I fear being falsely accused more than anything else in Japan. And that includes all the natural disasters too.

If im accused, I know I’m definitely going to jail.

That cannot be right.

11 ( +17 / -6 )

Women have this right, same as equal pay.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

Lets separate the men and women in society too. To further protect women, we should have them cover their faces and only interact with members of opposite sx if relative.

Sarcasm aside, rather than segregation in train cars, we should make more integrated (both male and female) trains or train cars to cut back on crowding, and instal security cameras.

5 ( +9 / -4 )

Do I lose chances to look at good looking ladies and fancy women's fashion in trains I ride? Not to change the subject but I want train passengers withhold using smart phones in a crowded trains. Small space becomes even smaller.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

Ban people from Chiba, Saitama, Kanagawa to work in Tokyo or impose higher taxes.

Less crowded trains.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

I have no problem with women-only cars but that's probably b/c I travel on an uncrowded private railway, 8 mins. each way. But I tend to agree that they're not a solution. More like problem-avoidance, which Japan is masterful at. You gotta have wa but I suspect if more gropers, upskirt vloggers, and late night sexual assaulters were seeing some real jail time or getting a beat-down or pepper-spraying as consequence for their actions, things might start to change.

But the policy has been criticized, including by a group of men who boarded a women-only carriage this year to protest what they called a discriminatory practice.

Translation: There are losers everywhere.

Some men have claimed they were falsely accused of groping, putting them at risk of losing their jobs, and sought out protection such as signing up for insurance which offers legal services in such situations.

Why do we never hear this about other crimes. 'Some men have claimed they were falsely accused of rape, murder, terrorist acts, putting them at risk of losing their jobs.' Yes, there are false accusations of every kind of crime. But that doesn't lead us to question the seriousness of homicide or rape. Innocent until proven guilty, exonerate those falsely accused, but keep your focus on tackling the awful behavior that is unquestionably more prevlanet in Japan.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

How about teaching men to respect women? That would require the infantilization of women to end, cracking down on rape porn/manga/anime, an end to the hyper-sexualization of women, and closing the wage gap.

It always disgusts me to see J-guys enter the women's only car because they can't wait until the train stops to walk on the platform to the exit.

Its also hilarious to hear the cause of the issue bitch about the solutions.

-2 ( +8 / -10 )

Why do we never hear this about other crimes. 

Do you really want to know the answer to this? If the people of Japan actually read about all the crime that happens everyday here, from murders to minor crime, the newspapers would be filled, and the collective here would probably keel over with a heart attack!

 Innocent until proven guilty, exonerate those falsely accused, but keep your focus on tackling the awful behavior that is unquestionably more prevalent in Japan.

I apologize ahead of time, but do you actually live here, or have you ever lived here for any amount of time?

I ask that because the premise of "innocent until proven guilty" is NOT a part of Japan. You have to prove your innocence in issues like this and others. The cops will keep you in detention for weeks, to get you to confess, even when you are truly "not guilty".

Just making an accusation is enough to finish the careers of many people here!

5 ( +8 / -3 )

But less than 30 percent of women were in favor of women-only carriages in New York and London, where the time and cost of travel were seen as more pressing issues than safety.

This is a poor interpretation of the results. Women are not putting money and time above their safety, it is just that - like many people commenting here and elsewhere - they don't think the solution lies in segregation of women. Women instinctively consider their safety every day in everything they do.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

How about teaching men to respect women? 

I respect women. Why do I need teaching of this?

1 ( +8 / -7 )

Upon returning to Japan I realised that in my opinion, the situation here is compounded by the ladies not being willing or able to stand up for themselves.

Seeing men talk down or at women is commonplace. On the train or in public spaces men often will annoy women and not be rebuffed or told to stop. Many times a young lady will smile and accomodate and answer the questions of an obvious pervert.

If people got more upset at the behavior and vocal about it, I bet the problem would halve.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

they're not a solution. More like problem-avoidance

Avoiding problems seems like a positive action to me. I’d rather avoid a problem ahead of time than have to deal with it after the fact.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

They should also offer men-only carriages. Both are a good thing in my book.

I agree.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

"The policy, however, has prompted protests domestically and debates globally, with experts saying it promotes segregation rather than tackling the root cause."

Bingo! And now you've got police saying to some women, their first question after an assault, "Were you riding in a women-only car?" It is now more than ever the victim's fault if they've been assaulted if they didn't ride a segregation car.

Strangerland: "Avoiding problems seems like a positive action to me."

So, "dealing with" the problem isn't an option in your book. Got it. Allow groping and assault to continue, but now if you don't ride in a segregated car it is YOUR fault if you're assaulted. You've been here too long, my friend, if you think that is a valid "solution".

4 ( +7 / -3 )

Gogogo

You were felt up by an old lady? :))

I think the difference is that under the usual situations, sexual harassment for men is not scary or threatening as it is for women.

Its not the same, so a lady’s feelings gotta be considered imo.

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

I would strongly welcome cameras on all trains.

.......for my protection!

7 ( +7 / -0 )

I respect women. Why do I need teaching of this?

Come now, Stranger; you know full well what I meant.

-1 ( +6 / -7 )

Not a problem. Just ride wherever your like. Telling someone they can't ride in the women only car means that they have assumed that person's gender. Thank you Liberal extremists! You've given us the key!!

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

So, "dealing with" the problem isn't an option in your book. 

That conclusion is a non-sequitur. Try again.

Come now, Stranger; you know full well what I meant.

No, I don’t. You made a comment saying I need teaching - why?

-7 ( +4 / -11 )

This single-sex carriage policy is a pain in the ass, especially if you're running to catch the train and find the closest carriage is .. one of them.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Instead of wasting time and money on whether or not they should have single sex carriages they should be looking at why more than 70% of women feel they have to have one. I would estimate that perhaps 70% of these respondents have experienced some kind of special harassment on trains.

Will thry be inckuding an LGBT carriage as well?

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Ban people from Chiba, Saitama, Kanagawa to work in Tokyo or impose higher taxes.

Less crowded trains.

You seriously expect some person working at a convenience store in Tokyo earning about 985yen an hour to live in Tokyo?

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Avoiding problems seems like a positive action to me. I’d rather avoid a problem ahead of time than have to deal with it after the fact.

Sure, do we really want to live in an openly confrontational culture like N. America, barfights or loud public arguments. But I agree with thepersoniamnow that a bit more intolerance for rudeness, rule-breaking or harassment/crime would go a long way towards solving many of Japan's social issues. People smoking on streets where it's banned, people riding their bikes in crowded shoutengai where it's banned, all b/c they know they'll go unchallenged. I'd like to see the average Taro here smoking with his toddler walk through Brooklyn like that.

The logical extension of what you write is what women have always been taught here--don't make waves, the blame is partly yours, stay quiet, don't shame your family by bringing it to public attention. I suspect that if the problems men talk about avoiding were even in the same ballpark of what women put up with, they'd have a much different outlook.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

People who say we also need 'Men only' carriages. You don't get it right? Most of Japanese women, at least 80% of my female friends had a nasty encounter on the train. I don't blame them for wanting to have a female only car. It's actually sad that we need them. And the men who are ignorant to jump into those cars, should actually be forced to move to another car. Give women their space. Don't be so difficult.

-3 ( +5 / -8 )

Treating one group of citizens differently from another will inevitably prolong the problem the proposed policy was created to resolve. Women could informally congregate in certain cars on the train to gain the advantage of numbers without creating an artificially exclusionary environment that simply delays progress.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

If Japan wants to fix the chikan problem, it needs to actually punish those caught and also stop making the victims feel like they are a burden to the cops.

My wife was a victim of a chikan, only problem was she is not the timid type and she took action. Long story short, my wife and a good Samaritan were asked that if they were sure they wanted to file a report because it would take a long time. After about 4 hours, they were released. Mind you, it was 4am. After about a month of not hearing anything from the police, my wife called and asked what was going on with the case. They told her the chikan paid a ¥100,000 fine and was released.

9 ( +9 / -0 )

Segregation of men and women in trains and public spaces is regrettable but a good way to prevent chikan crimes. It takes the temptation away from men, when a woman is dressed up and is cute. Perhaps also, segregation in Izakaya is a smart move, since some men do crazy things there after drinking parties. Women are often groped. More CCTV also stops these incidents.

-13 ( +1 / -14 )

Women only carriage may not be a solution, but it is still a necessity.

Chikan has been a problem in Japan for a very long time, and it still is. There are lots of things that should be done against it, but as long as the culture of men touching women, trying to take pictures up their skirts, or stalking them exist, that may be the only way for women to get some protection.

You can do anything, arrest people, give higher sentences, campaign for equality, encourage women to stand for themselves etc etc... It's not going to get away instantly anyway. Meanwhile, these cars help.

Also, chikan does not happen only inside trains. So any way for women to catch a break, I'm all for it.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Abe govt should offer each and every women with a rubber rod with colored metal spikes and a legal order that women can strike first without any consequences if they are insulted by any men anytime on any buses and trains.

-11 ( +0 / -11 )

@BlackFlagCitizen - I’ve caught half a dozen creeps filming up girl’s skirts at train stations. The first time I saw it I grabbed the creep and called the station staff, who then called the police. He was interrogated at the station and let go in about 20 minutes. I was taken to the police station and interrogated for over two hours while they checked my passport number, alien registration, called my wife and my employer. At the end of my interrogation I was told by one of the cops (in English) “Stay out of Japan business.” Needless to say, I no longer attempt to apprehend these creeps. A good stiff slap on the head usually is enough to send the cowards running. One time I saw a creep take a photo on the stairs at Makuhari station. He continued onto the platform to find a nice secluded place to admire his work. I worked up to him and excitedly asked him to show me the photo. His face went white and he ran away.

6 ( +10 / -4 )

Let’s make a law that forbids train companies to fill their trains 200% above capacity and make buses free for commuters!

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Can we stop with the woman only cars!!

I take the morning train together with my girlfriend. How's that gonna work?

I get off after 3 stops. She rides the train all the way.

Ride together in the normal car you say?

So once I get off she has to move cars or...get pounced on? (yeah...over exageration I know)

Cameras on trains. Security staff. Recruit old folk to act as Guardian Angels if you must.

But enough with punnishing the many for the sins of the (admittedly weird) few.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

I wonder if the Japanese Olympic Committee is working into their manual for Olympic volunteers the correct response to a foreign visitor's query, "Why do Tokyo trains need 'women only' cars?"

2 ( +2 / -0 )

The answer is simple, but to put into practice would be a nightmare.

Have about 5 or 6 million people live and work somewhere else!

Orrrrrrr....here's a crazy idea: More trains to ease congestion.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Dont be putting the carriages by the stairs or escalators.When men are rushing,they don't wanna have to worry about an all female carriage in a prime time spot causing them to miss the train.Just make them the first and last carriages and done.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

If you need the "security" that much you can make the effort and walk to the first and last carriages.Why must men make the sacrifice when no-one's ...?

0 ( +4 / -4 )

albaleoToday 06:53 am JSTI think less crowded trains is the only practical solution. But how to achieve that?

Thx for nailing the ACTUAL problem! Gropers are of course a problem but if crowding wasn't so insane then gropers would be few & far between relative to what happens now on trains.

But as you say capacity is no where near up to serving customers so EVERYONE who rides trains suffers to some extent, THAT is why I figured a way to just stop having to use them, saved my sanity I can tell you that!

But lets face its more than chikan women want to get away from, they also want to get away from salarymen in GENERAL, young & old ones, hell if there was I No Stinky Salarymen Train, it would be at least as full as women only cars!

2 ( +3 / -1 )

What about “men only” cars? There are women who make up stories in order to extort money. But then if this happens the problem that smithinjapan wrote about comes up. The police first ask, “Why were you not riding in an all-male car?” Imagine all railcars being segregated into M and F like public toilets. imagine the chaos (I mean increased chaos) at rush hour.

The reason we have women only cars and may eventually have men only cars is because of a few creeps, gropers and occasional false accusers. Think about that.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

The creeps on the train are like yaki-soba shops in Japan. They will always be here. Most woman, bordering on nearly all women in Japan, have been molested by the goons. Japan has a sickness here and it is not going away, so segregation is the only solution. Men who complain about this are sad. Men only car idea is ridiculous. Cars are basically now men only, other than the segregated cars.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Some years back when living in NYC, I was on the subway when a woman spreamed of being groped. The next thing I knew, a sleazy-looking fellow had his nose exploded for him and spit chicklets out of his mouth, courtesy of a nearby straphanger who apparently wasn't in approval of the whole situation.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

It's hard to believe Japan still hasn't addressed the chikan issue.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

As a woman, I tend to avoid women-only carriages during peak hours because they are usually more crowded with just one carriage out of around 10 being women-only and a lot of women wanting to use them. It's usually further from the stairs and escalators, too. On normal carriages, I can usually get a seat halfway through the train ride.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Too many assumptions. Assumption of guilt when accused. Assumption of gender. Assumption that women only cars solve anything.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

It takes the temptation away from men, when a woman is dressed up and is cute.

Burkhas all round?

7 ( +9 / -2 )

Public transport, especially trains, is famously expensive in the UK, so I wouldn't read too much into UK women saying that personal safety is not their top priority. It could still be very important to them, even without the (should be outrageous) level of groping seen in Japan.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

What percentage of men are actually gropers? ~0.0001? How is excluding all men justified by any rational standard?

1 ( +6 / -5 )

Women only cars should only be from 10am-6pm, and 8pm-1am. Exclude the morning Rush hour, as everyone should be more focused then towards getting to work on time, then, rather than when they're coming home after drinks and more likely for me to do/say something that'd they'd not normally do.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Many times a young lady will smile and accommodate and answer the questions of an obvious pervert.

If people got more upset at the behavior and vocal about it, I bet the problem would halve.

This might work on the Tarou in the office with garden-variety condescending attitude towards women who thinks he's being cute.

But chikan are not garden-variety people. Normal people with capacity for empathy and adherence to social cues are their prey. They get satisfaction out of seeing or imagining the victim's misery.

The best defense is to involve more people than just the victim. Predators' focus on victims is all-consuming, and they are disoriented by others breaking into their mental loop of how they visualize the crime. That is why the best area of the train to avoid gropers is in the aisle of the carriage. Then you've got the eyes of other standing passengers as well as the eye-level of seated passengers lower down, making it much harder to try something unseen by others.

It's misdirected to put the responsibility on the victim to do something when the perp's mentality feeds off that. It's meaningless to tell perverted people to stop being perverted. It's unfair to tell good men to stop being perverts when they aren't. You have to encourage the good people to help, to say something in a loud voice if they see something. In the chikan's twisted inner world, there is only himself and the victim. Police when they enter the scene come too late, long after the fact. Unfortunately a lot of anti-chikan posters I see reinforce the chikan's own narrative by only including those three characters: victim, perp, and police. Police are irrelevant to the chikan's visualization of the crime, focused as it is on the immediate experience. A person with an addiction is not capable of logical reasoning about future consequences.

So I agree the most sensible step to reduce groping on trains would be to reduce crowding, because no one can see anything when it's really crowded.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

I take the morning train together with my girlfriend. How's that gonna work?

I get off after 3 stops. She rides the train all the way.

Ride together in the normal car you say?

So once I get off she has to move cars or...get pounced on?

She doesn't have to do anything. She can stay on the car.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

"1,750 groping or molestation cases" in Tokyo....

When? Last Tuesday?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

People who say we also need 'Men only' carriages. You don't get it right?

I get it. I understand the reason for women only cars - I support it. And I also think there should be men only car. I would prefer to ride a train car where I don't have to worry about keeping my hands visible in fear that someone else may grope a girl and I get mistakenly accused due to an overly packed train. I think women probably feel that they would rather ride a car where they don't have to worry so much about being groped by men.

This isn't zero-sum game. Supporting one does not take away from the other, and both can be done easily. Make the two cars at either end of the train be segregated, have the rest of the cars be open to all.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

What percentage of men are actually gropers? ~0.0001? How is excluding all men justified by any rational standard?

Because for the women who get groped by that 0.0001% of men, the fact that it is only the tiniest number of men doesn't change the fact that she got felt up.

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

FYI, I found a report of the Ministry of Justice on the subject of between 2005 and 2014 :

http://www.moj.go.jp/content/001178520.pdf

Here are the statistics for verified rape and indecent assault :

http://hakusyo1.moj.go.jp/jp/62/nfm/images/full/h6-2-1-11.jpg

Numbers of indecent assault for 2014 only :

Women : 7,186 cases, 11 in 100,000 women

Men : 214 cases, 0.3 in 100,000 men

Just in case someone else wonder where are the male only trains...

0 ( +1 / -1 )

There's nothing wrong in Women only carriages since its for a limited time and also offers protection to young children during rush hour.

Crowded trains during rush hour are a reality in Tokyo , its not going to change much whatever measures are taken.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Give men their own carriages too. I want them.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Although I think the attitude of some men toward women in the country  could use improvement, I think, at its core, chikan is a crime of opportunity.

With trains running at over 100% capacity every weekday morning, they are presented with many opportunities to slip a hand here and there without getting caught. Once they start, it becomes an addiction.

The most effective approach is to avoid having overcrowded trains in the first place, to get rid of the opportunities for it to happen. For example, increasing the train frequencies during rush hour or more drastically to work on decentralizing the country so that overly crowded trains don't exist in the first place. Of course, the second solution is not practical nor easy.

People respecting each other without having to go through various measures would be ideal, of course, but as it stands, this is a problem that isn't so easily fixable.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Also another problem is the lack of women reporting incidences and just thinking that it is what it is so just letting it go. Reporting to authorities has increased but all of this nonsense still occurs.

Case in point-

 I was felt up my a old woman on a semi packed train years ago.

Instead of reporting it and putting this woman in the slammer she is probably continuing to play judo with young foreign men on the train. Beware!

0 ( +1 / -1 )

"At best, women-only facilities provide only a momentary respite. Segregation does not stop sexual violence," said Washington, DC-based anti-harassment expert Marty Langelan.

"The ethical response to violence is to stop the aggressors, not segregate the victims," added the author of "Back Off: How to Confront and Stop Sexual Harassment and Harassers".

Another blowhard who has no idea what the hay he is talking about. Come onto my Tokyo morning train at 8 am and feel the pain. Groping is almost inevitable when you are balancing on one leg.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

But the policy has been criticized, including by a group of men who boarded a women-only carriage this year to protest what they called a discriminatory practice, The Japan Times newspaper reported. Some men have claimed they were falsely accused of groping, putting them at risk of losing their jobs, and sought out protection such as signing up for insurance which offers legal services in such situations.

I do not see what there is for men to protest. Not only does separating women and men on trains prevent groping but it also prevents false accusations of groping. Seems win win to me

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Have separate carriages for men and women. The men's carriages are cigar smoking lounges, and the women's are kitchens. Triggered?

2 ( +4 / -2 )

90% of the women on these trains have nothing to worry about. They look so miserable and some don't know that they are not all that!

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Where do the weirdos get weird ideas on the train.. from AV and Hentai, imagery of such nature is on there..

0 ( +1 / -1 )

what about for men that 'identify' as women? or Trannies?

1 ( +5 / -4 )

If they have carriages for women only then they should have carriages men only.

There's been Western men groped by Japanese women, so why the double standards.

Most Japanese guys do the right thing, stop the blame game for the few who don't.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Education.

My girls are taught to stand for themselves.

If you cannot do that in life, you are bound to undergo whatever men want any time any where.

Also, know your place, women attract men's eyes, this is normal. I don't agree with the no eye connection allowed which disconnects all social natural relationships (in train or not). For some men, it would be the only possible way to maje a start in Japan.

Culture makes some crazy (hentai, kawai dressing and voice, gender separation starting early...)

No excuse but rational explanations.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

I am pro these only women cars. It's not about segregation, but common sense, for the same reason why we need separate toilets for men and women and so on. If the trains are too much packed you can't avoid some annoying invasion of your personal space also if It isn't harrassment

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Because for the women who get groped by that 0.0001% of men, the fact that it is only the tiniest number of men doesn't change the fact that she got felt up.

It doesn't, but it also doesn't mean that the fear of being groped by all men is rational or statically supported. Let's apply your logic to another example to see if it holds up; something like 70% of all airline hijackings in history have been carried out by Muslims, but only ~00001% of all Muslims are hijackers. Is a non-Muslim only airline justified? The statistics say no. In exactly the same way, a train carriage banning all men is equally irrational.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

It doesn't, but it also doesn't mean that the fear of being groped by all men is rational or statically supported.

I agree, and I even posted something in that regards earlier. Other poster:

How about teaching men to respect women? 

My response:

I respect women. Why do I need teaching of this?

However, before addressing the rest of your post, you mentioned that only a few men will grope, but that does is separate from the number of groping instances. I doubt most gropers only do it a single time. So let's say a single groper on averages gropes twenty times (a purely made up number). Twenty gropers would then equal 400 gropes. So while the number of gropers may be insignificant, the number of gropes may be quite significant.

Let's apply your logic to another example to see if it holds up; something like 70% of all airline hijackings in history have been carried out by Muslims, but only ~00001% of all Muslims are hijackers. Is a non-Muslim only airline justified?

I don't see this as being an accurate comparison, as airplane passengers go through security checks. If everyone has been well checked, then no, I don't feel like it would be right to have Muslim only airplanes, same as I would think it silly to have female only trains if there were enough cameras that gropers would pretty much always be caught when groping. If they did not do security checks on airplanes, and Muslims kept hijacking airplanes, then I would want to ride an airline that profiled people. Same as I would rather ride on a male-only train now. And just as a non-Muslim may end up blowing up the plane I was riding, I could theoretically be falsely accused of groping by a guy on the male only car, same as a woman could theoretically be groped by another woman on the female only car - however I would rest thinking it's less likely.

The idea that not having segregated cars because people shouldn't be groping is akin to a vegetarian expecting a lion to not eat them because they don't eat meat. In an ideal world, no one would grope, and lions would ignore vegetarians. But we don't live in an ideal world, and sometimes we have to deal with reality, which is why I support segregated cars, incidentally why I support gun control, and why I don't support the death penalty.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Sadly, it would appear that women only carriages are necessary, as these chikan / up skirt filming incidents keep on occurring. The real issue which needs to be addressed imho, is the everyday behaviours towards women of "average Kazu Tanaka" , the majority of whom, it would seem, have no idea what really constitutes sexual harassment. Didn't the Deputy Prime Minister say when he was in Manila a few months back that, "Sexual harassment isn't a crime in Japan" ? Apparently, this is technically true....

0 ( +0 / -0 )

If groping really is a problem, then segregated cars might be a reasonable solution. I do not live in Japan, and do not know if groping is a real problem or not. If it is not, then education would be the answer.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The idea that not having segregated cars because people shouldn't be groping is akin to a vegetarian expecting a lion to not eat them because they don't eat meat. In an ideal world, no one would grope, and lions would ignore vegetarians.

You seem to be suggesting that it's in men's nature to grope, but it's not. The vast majority of men do not grope. An extremely small and statistically insignificant number do.

I don't see this as being an accurate comparison, as airplane passengers go through security checks.

OK. Then substitute my airline analogy with ethnicity and crime. Particular ethnicities in particular countries are statistically more likely to be violent criminals. There is no doubt thay the community would be statistically safer by excluding all of them, yet most people would agree that doing so would be unfair because the odds of any given person of that ethnicity being a criminal would be extremely low.

This is ultimately a problem of large numbers and how far we are willing to go to assuage irrational fears. Women may be statistically safer in the woman's only car, but considering that the odds of any given man being a groper are infinitesimally small, one has to question whether excluding all men from an entire car is rational.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

So what happens if you get into a Womens only carriage ?

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You seem to be suggesting that it's in men's nature to grope

I wasn’t.

OK. Then substitute my airline analogy with ethnicity and crime. Particular ethnicities in particular countries are statistically more likely to be violent criminals. There is no doubt thay the community would be statistically safer by excluding all of them

Again I don’t feel this is an accurate analogy, as people live in a place, and you are talking about from their place, and in this case it would be equivalent to me choosing to not go to not buy a watch in a sketchy neighborhood and instead choose to go to Ginza.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

This is ultimately a problem of large numbers and how far we are willing to go to assuage irrational fears. Women may be statistically safer in the woman's only car, but considering that the odds of any given man being a groper are infinitesimally small, one has to question whether excluding all men from an entire car is rational.

Again it’s not the number of men who are gropers that matters. It’s the amount of groping incidents that matters. Groping incidents are regular. If something happens regularly, then just how irrational is it to be afraid of it?

And it’s not like anyone is trying to say (wo)men shouldn’t be allowed to ride the trains at all, or that whole trains should me (fe)male free. Just some segregated cars on either end for those who feel more comfortable. I’m failing to see the problem.

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So what happens if you get into a Womens only carriage?

Stink eye.

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It's hard to believe Japan still hasn't addressed the chikan issue. It's morally, a third world country.

You are apparently unaware of the mass groping that goes on in other countries. Try being a woman up near the stage at a rock concert in the west, for example.

You can talk about education, but before jumping on Japan take a look at the rampant sexualization of women in the USA, for another example. Between the sex, drugs and alcohol, I am far less worried about my daughters here than I would be in the US.

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No real answer here. There is no solution to something that has been going on since the beginning of time. It's like hoping to find a cure for cancer or ending war. Never gonna happen.

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It seems to have become a very contentious issue. Whatever solutions railway operators come up with will not please everyone.

Japan is a democracy so how about the railway operators propose several solutions and then survey thier own passengers to find the most popular one/s to implement? Majority wins.

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Women-only cars is a good stopgap, but doesn't end the problem. Creating male-only cars would make some people feel good about fairness, and perhaps mitigate some risk of false/mistaken accusations, but then all the non-offender guys would get in those cars and leave the mixed car an even more dangerous place. Completely segregating the cars would totally work, but then people couldn't travel with their opposite gender siblings/partners/friends/co-workers/etc. Teaching men to respect women is the sort of thing that people love to call for, for some reason, but never leads to anything really changing.

I think the problem won't go away until the trains are less crowded. That's hard to do with current infrastructure. But on the up side, self-driving automobiles are coming. They're supposed to be so efficient with routing, road-training, speed-matching, etc that they can greatly improve the throughput of even Japan's narrow streets. Shoot, there's no reason they have to be full-sized sedans. They could be little one person pods that put Kei cars to shame, traveling two abreast in a lane. I don't think it'll replace subways, but by 2030, maybe shifting 15% of the ridership off the subways is possible. Maybe investing in more tunneling for streets (Boring Company style) can shift more.

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If one does these railway shenanigans in NYC, one is gonna have a fight in their hands, lol

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I think you've all missed the obvious;

Women and Men only trains. Just like express and local, they alternate. Yes we have to adjust acceptable arrival time to work to compensate,(but we can do that. Very few jobs are actually arrival time critical.)

Of course it would only last about 24 hours until the scumbags start disguising themselves as women.

You would need some kind of bio metric scan upon entry to a train to ensure you were gender specific, but it's probably the only answer in a world that is only going to become ever more overpopulated.

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I think you've all missed the obvious;

Women and Men only trains.

Yeah, bring in social planners from Iran. They understand these issues very well.

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If one does these railway shenanigans in NYC, one is gonna have a fight in their hands, lol

-- https://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/05/13/i-was-groped-on-the-subway/

-- https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/creeps-busted-groping-grinding-women-subways-article-1.3556103

-- https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Man-Targeting-Q-Train-Riders-Fondles-Woman-at-Least-5-Times-Since-December-Police-422923174.html

-- https://www.foxnews.com/us/nyc-subway-riders-fight-back-at-groping-grinding-lewd-acts

From that last one:

It's a situation police say plays out hundreds of times a year beneath the nation's largest city. With subway ridership approaching all-time highs, averaging 5.6 million daily riders, reports of sex crimes are also rising, up nearly 57 percent.

This is hardly a Japanese-only problem.

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This problem can be fixed so easily. Start putting the faces and names of chikans or up skirt photographers randomly in newspapers and on the TV news. Will eliminate 95% of the incidents overnight don't you think? Ditto for those selling drugs to children or shoplifting.

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Start putting the faces and names of chikans or up skirt photographers randomly in newspapers and on the TV news. Will eliminate 95% of the incidents overnight don't you think?

I don’t. These guys already know if they get caught, their lives will be over. They lose their job, their family, their lifestyle. Yet they do it anyways. Some people are just morons and slaves to their groinal urges.

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Anyhow we need to solve this problem no matter in what ways or how long it takes or how long it keeps making problems...

Tokyo problem - It's Chikan, so women only carriage might slowly solve.

US problem - anything, so cameras are better choice

HK problem - mainly crowded, so more trains

UK problem - Mainly Too Expensive, Too Slow, Bad service - so cut the price and also better trains in time with good service like Japan, would solve it.

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I'm not against doing something about the chikan problem, but half the travellers are male. Women get access to 10 carriages and men to 9. Why is there no men-only carriage to balance everything out and to offer a place where men don't have to worry about being falsely accused? And stop forcing schoolgirls to wear miniskirts.

As usual here, what we see are attempted cures, but no insight into tackling the underlying causes. A doctor will always tell you prevention is better than finding a cure.

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That ain't going to solve anything. What if a lesbian gropes a woman, say? Segregating transportation by sexes is --- segregation.

"What we need to do is focus on the men's behavior. It's a minority of men doing this so our focus is on catching them rather than asking women to do something different," she said.

They just need to find out more diligently who the gropers are and penalize them more harshly. And if you have security cams on the trams you can video record these incidents. And groping isn't exclusively done to women, and gropers aren't even all men.

If a woman gets groped on a train she can always tell him to stop or she'll clean his clock, or maybe slap him real good.

Pukey2Nov. 17 09:06 pm JST

And stop forcing schoolgirls to wear miniskirts.

As usual here, what we see are attempted cures, but no insight into tackling the underlying causes.

Exactly. In America there's a fetish about schoolgirls too. What century are we living in anyway? Some people need to learn to quit groping the opposite gender. It doesn't make a person an 'adult', just stupid. So don't penalize a lot of people over something a few immature clods due for jollies.

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That ain't going to solve anything. What if a lesbian gropes a woman, say?

Then the woman gets groping. But be realistic here - the number of women groping women is of an extremely low level. You seem to be saying that just because the solution doesn’t solve 100% of possible cases, it should be abandoned. This is the same argument gun-nuts use against gun control.

It’s about risk management. Find me cases of women groping women on the female cars, It just doesn’t happen.

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don't penalize a lot of people over something a few immature clods due for jollies.

How is making people skip one car and take the next one penalizing anyone?

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Tokyo late night train sucks, no matter.

"Women only" cars suck less.

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So if it's only local Japanese men committing these crimes against Women, then Women Only cars should also be open for use by the safer Foreign men too....

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StrangerlandNov. 18 07:20 am JSTdon't penalize a lot of people over something a few immature clods due for jollies.

How is making people skip one car and take the next one penalizing anyone?

Making a man skip one car is penalizing him for being male. Not all men are gropers so therefore penalizing them all because of a handful is stupid and immoral. It penalizes mature men. I truly can't believe anybody would even come up with such a moronic idea like this in the first place. Not every man is a Donald Trump type, people! Are we going to categorize all men, all American men, all gaijin on the basis of a few dirtbags like that? If we do, we're as stupid as they are.

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It's just the typical Japanese traight of avoiding the problem (see no evil, hear no evil approach) as opposed to confronting it. Then they act surprised when that same problem pops up in other facets of society.

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Wait for all the members of LGGBBTTQQIAAPP soup to demand separate cars for each of their groups...we'll end up with trains of 11+ coaches each contain a different group! Or maybe we should stick with GSM?

TICAS - Travel in comfort and safety...

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