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Experts question legal requirement of surgery to change gender

29 Comments
By Keiji Hirano

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29 Comments
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On one hand, I applaud this requirement as it will silence the insufferable majority who wake up every other morning claiming they "feel" like a different sex and demand to be treated as such.

What transgendered need is serious psychiatric help. 40% go on to attempt suicide regardless of sex-change surgeries or not.

-4 ( +9 / -13 )

@clamenza, Those figures must be for the US, and considering how you treat transgenders, I'm not surprized they want to commit suicide.  We don't have this problem.  Lots of famous transgenders here in Japan, starting with Miwa Akihiro, very popular with everyone.  Kaba-chan just underwent reassignment surgery, and his journey is being extensively covered by the press.  I'm not saying it is perfect, as totally gay gokai can say, but it is not like over there.

@burning bush Nature shows infinite diversity.  It is not surprising that humans are diverse too.

8 ( +13 / -5 )

Sugiyama, a female-to-male transgender 

What transgendered need 

transgender/ed what? What happened to the noun, or are they not people in your eyes?

I love reading opinions by people who have no experience of something but feel that they are able to speak about that experience as if they do, and simultaneously deny its existence.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

Humans, like all mammals, are either XX or XY.

No escaping this scientific fact

Good to know that in an otherwise incredibly complex body, gender is something as simple as that.

Just like colours really: there is only one shade of red, and one shade of blue, and that's yer lot. All other shades are just made-up rubbish.

-1 ( +8 / -9 )

Stop calling it a "disorder" for starters.

3 ( +10 / -7 )

Factually, there are persons which were given the wrong sex because at birth the check of all organs was not done enough. Problem is physical.

In that case, and no one should judge, change in registry should be clearly provided.

Other cases are far more complex : you go from mentally disabled people to persons who just want to change sex although they are fully sex functional.

I have no issue to accept whatever a person thinks its sex is since it does not bother me. But to pay the social cost for treatment (medical, administrative) and bringing disruption to what can bring life is a worry.

I leave it not to me to assess each one's situation, and as wisely expressed above by some. A doctor is the person to go and see anyway, since yes it is a disorder (that we may all have one day or another, in any field).

Change of sex in the registry shall not be taken lightly indeed.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

The discrimination, dislike, falsehoods will continue but at the end of the day - we all have so much potential and should be allowed achieve it.

Some here (a vocal few, it has to be said) call it un-natural. They say it's leading to suicides.

If you were mocked everyday of your life, sneered at, told you were un-natural, a deviant, a threat to children, a disease, the result of an experiment, abnormal, insufferable and so on...

If you were told after serving your country that your services are no longered needed because of your gender...

I wonder how that would take it's toll on your wellbeing?

6 ( +10 / -4 )

Huh. People are very selective in their idea of what is an acceptable genetic minority. It's ok if I say so.

In their eyes, it seems, heterosexuality is the only 'acceptable' sexuality, and male/female the only 'normal' genders. This is based on their bias, not science. They call homosexuality the result of abnormal genes (irrelevant of course, since this article is not about homosexuality), even though all kinds of sexuality have been around as long as living beings have...

Even in the 20th century, babies born with two sets of genitalia - or just a large clitoris - were labelled and hacked at by doctors who thought the sum of a person is what is between their legs.

The strict assignment of social straitjackets (based on these bits of flesh and how humans breed) which force people to be one type of person or another, and which have decided arbitrarily what is 'normal' and 'abnormal', is the only abnormality.

People previously did not have the freedom to fight these straitjackets, but now they are doing so.

If society hadn't become so bloody rigid and hateful, ("You must check Box A or Box B") perhaps people wouldn't have to have surgery in order to live how they wish, or be who they are.

That they want to be true to themselves, does not affect anyone other than themselves and those they know (and even then not so much).

Anyone else - if you disagree, so what? It's nothing to do with you. Honestly, why do you care enough to try to stop people being happy?

The suggestion that many people who live with gender identity disorder attempt to or do die by suicide is important to consider, but to conclude that they are mentally ill, is lazy thinking.

6 ( +10 / -4 )

...I know, I know, the irony is that many societies we live in today are at once rigid, and also allow people to reject and live outside them.

We are lucky, I suppose, that we at least have the latter option now. Back in the day, people who rejected the rules were burned at the stake, hung, drawn and quartered, banished, or crucified.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

Stop calling it a "disorder" for starters. as stated by a geneticist, the statistics and actual physical characteristics give evidence that tendency toward homosexuality ( I say tendency as most individuals believe homosexuality is in a continuum from completely straight to completely homosexual) is either a product of genes or hormone baths that shape how the brain develops or a combination of the two. However, even if it is completely based on genes, a genetic disorder is, by definition, a pathological state. As it does not necessarily affect a beings vitality or impair any normal function I would say now. However, there may be some that disagree in that it does prevent normal mating. I would also add that many other species also have homosexuals- in that they never mate with the opposite sex - maybe there is some evolutionary benefit to having homosexuals in the population? We still don't know.  I would also add that although we can almost certainly say that not one 'gene' causes homosexuality, in many human diseases multiple genes come into play making it very hard to pinpoint a genetic cause. However, these are still genetic disorders

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

However, there may be some that disagree in that it does prevent normal mating.

And hetero couples who do not reproduce? Either because they are unable to, due to fertility problems or they are perhaps disabled?

What is "normal" mating?

When hetero couples have penetrative sex, other than vaginal, is that a disorder?

How about an irrational hatred of LGBT people and reducing them to the sexual act; is that a disorder? Is it normal? A genetic disorder?

6 ( +8 / -2 )

Burning BushToday,

Humans, like all mammals, are either XX or XY. No escaping this scientific fact

X, XXY, XXXY, XXXXY all occur in nature, along with XYY and XXXXX. Aneuploidy is the presence of an abnormal number of chromosomes in a cell.

Check out Klinefelter syndrome, Turner syndrome, Trisomy X, Penta X, Tetrasomy, etc..

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Perhaps it would be easiest to do away with the "gender" category completely. Be whatever you like, marry whomever you wish. It shouldn't take many legal changes to do this as we are all supposed to be equal (even though the Japanese supreme court refuses to enforce the constitutional articles that state this).

8 ( +8 / -0 )

I am not sure how I feel about this all. I'm supportive of whatever folks want to do but if people except to be able to use the changing rooms and the like of the gender they feel they are without undergoing surgery... I feel that is inappropriate. If they want to be called by gendered pronouns, fine. If they want to dress in a gendered fashion, fine. If they want to use self contained gender toilets, fine. I don't however, think that others need to "deal with it" when they feel uncomfortable about having to strip down and the like in front of such individuals and vice versa. There is a very slippery slope where about what makes others feel secure and I really don't think women need to be made to feel uncomfortable in certain situations. Fully expect to be told I am out of line but as a female who changes in change rooms and the like, I really don't think I would be comfortable changing in front of someone who still has male parts.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

If you aren't clearly male or clearly female, then you are "other." If the number of people who identify outside the current norms increases to a significant portion of the population, then society can take another other look at social requirements to accommodate "other" people.

Are there "other" toilets in huge public stadiums? Would it be an issue if traditional male and female people used those facilities?

5 ( +5 / -0 )

@tmarie

I do see your point, and I think it's something to be considered. But I also see it as an example of how our whole perception of gender, bodies and sex are flawed and needs to be thought over.

If you start thinking about why you would be uncomfortable with changing in front of someone with different bits from you - is it a sexual reason? Well then what about women who are attracted to women, aren't they allowed in changing rooms? Is it just because they are different? Everyone's body is different. I swim quite often at the local pool, and let me tell you, just in the lady's locker there are tons of very different bodies.

It's not a critique. I would just like people to really think about how they think about gender and sex and why that is. I think body-positivity is going down and it's a shame. It doesn't harm anyone to see genitals from the opposite sex, I actually think it's quite healthy. What is really the benefit of segregating people so sharply based on what's between their legs?

3 ( +5 / -2 )

What transgendered need is serious psychiatric help. 40% go on to attempt suicide regardless of sex-change surgeries or not.

That's 40% in societies that ostracize/do not accept transgender ppl. Don't think we are anywhere near 40% in a country like Thailand where trans ppl do not suffer the same level of social exclusion, discrimination etc.

We as a society are responsible for such high suicide rate, they aren't. (bullied kids, victims of DV, rape etc have higher rates of suicide yet they aren't 'mad' are they).

Re the obligation to undergo sex reassignment surgery to 'officially' be a man/woman, I have actually changed my mind on this in the last few years and no longer think it should be compulsory. I think physicians including psychiatrists, possibly gyne, who have been following their patients for years should have the final word.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

tokai_wo_maneko - according to the Williams institute, about 0.3% of the US population (and I would suggest that the number is roughly the same in any country) identify themselves as transgendered.

http://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/Gates-How-Many-People-LGBT-Apr-2011.pdf

This from one of the most liberal institutes in the world, if not THE most liberal.

And I find it funny that you think the LGBTQ (did I miss one?) community has it sooo much better in Japan where as far as I know, its all still mostly underground. Yeah, their are a few celebrated ones out there, but I think they are only being laughed at or seen as circus freak material. Matsuko Deluxe, anyone?

As far as the 40% suicide rate, how about a study from Jolly Old England?

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2016/12/11/study-finds-40-of-transgender-people-have-attemptempted suicide/

As "low" as 32% in some countries, and as high as 50% in others. 5, 6 or sometimes 7 times more likely to attempt suicide than their heterosexual counterparts.

Reassignment surgery has almost no effect on reducing the number. I've said it before and I'll say it again, these people need counseling, yet the left would rather use them as pawns in the identity politics scam.

Any more questions?

I love reading opinions by people who have no experience of something but feel that they are able to speak about that experience as if they do, and simultaneously deny its existence.

Maria, with the chances of actually meeting an honest to goodness transgendered being so small. how is it that you proclaim to be an expert on the issue? Who exactly appointed you a spokesperson? If your birthname was Frank, I apologize. You got me.

And funny that all the SJWs out there love to laud science and claim to be be big fans of it - until it comes to biology. Suddenly basic scientific fact is thrown out the window, and their is no such thing as "male" and "female". Nope, not when politicizing the horrific suicide rate of transgendered is more important than helping them.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

yet the left would rather use them as pawns in the identity politics scam.

Well, Trump broke his promise on banning transgenders in the military. He just tweeted it after waking up in a cold sweat at his usual 3am tweet. Where is the actual implementation? So far he is just keeping his followers entertained. He really wants to keep them in the military. He has scammed you.

Who exactly appointed you a spokesperson?

Are you one?

3 ( +5 / -2 )

So maybe we need to start changing the signs upon Toilet doors to instead of showing a man or a woman symbol, to instead show either a Penis or a Vagina ?

i.e. 8-- or O

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

So maybe we need to start changing the signs upon Toilet doors to instead of showing a man or a woman symbol, to instead show either a Penis or a Vagina ?

Maybe try to change rigidly conservative mindsets, instead?

4 ( +5 / -1 )

nishikat - what does the trans in military issue have to do with this thread? It wasn't even an issue before the election. Strange that you went on that tangent...

by the way, I just looked up the story and no promise has been broke. The Pentagon is simply waiting for the Trump administration to clarify their stance. Turns out it costs a hell of a lot to have trans in your employ, not to mention the sky high suicide attempt rate. Chelsea Manning, for example, tried to take his/her own life twice.

Who exactly appointed you a spokesperson?

Are you one?

Nope, never claimed to be, unlike a former poster had done.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

Nope, never claimed to be

Are you sure? (these people need counseling)

and no promise has been broken

Based on Trump's track record (no wall, no Hillary arrest, no mass deportation- and many many others) Yes, it is a broken promise. Do you know that the US hasn't left the Paris accord? He just tweets and his follower think that US law is based on Trump's tweets.

This from one of the most liberal institutes

No, their data is not based on the book of the flying Jesus zombie. It's based on science. Remember, the Bible is just a book of fairy tales. It is not science based and the earth was not created in 3 days as it says. You do know the earth is not flat, BTW, right?

by the way

...are you a closeted transgender?

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Are you sure? (these people need counseling)

nishikat - If my educated opinion riles you so much, don't read it. I have been known to trigger SJWs from time to time.

Based on Trump's track record (no wall, no Hillary arrest, no mass deportation- and many many others) Yes, it is a broken promise. Do you know that the US hasn't left the Paris accord? He just tweets and his follower think that US law is based on Trump's tweets.

Yikes. All I can say is yikes! Lots of mangled anger there!

No, their data is not based on the book of the flying Jesus zombie. It's based on science. Remember, the Bible is just a book of fairy tales. It is not science based and the earth was not created in 3 days as it says. You do know the earth is not flat, BTW, right?

Hmmm. I'm a conservative and an agnostic. So your identity politics scam doesn't work or affect me in the least.

by the way

...are you a closeted transgender?

Now Nishikat. Are you seriously trying to transgender shame me? You indicate that transgender is a negative thing to be ashamed of. You are doing the EXACT thing that you claim to hate!

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

Humans, like all mammals, are either XX or XY.  No escaping this scientific fact

Burning Bush, how come I suspect you know little about this "fact"? I know very little either, but enough to know when to keep quiet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex

6 ( +6 / -0 )

Burning Bush… we are not ONLY the sum of our genes….

4 ( +4 / -0 )

It's always fasciniating to see that most who see transgendered people as a threat or abnormal are obsessed with lavatory arrangements.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

I gotta tell ya, I’m fascinated (and by fascinated I mean horrified) that a parent wouldn’t feel concern.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

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