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Trans weddings in Japan: Forced surgery before 'I do'

30 Comments
By Michael Taylor

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The United Nations has condemned mandatory sterilization to legally change gender as a human rights violation and a growing number of countries allow gender recognition based on self-identification rather than medical procedures.

How many women want someone who has fully working male "junk" coming into their changing rooms just because that person "self-identifies" as a woman?

Self-identification is a loony concept.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

You should do a little more research into the age of consent for marriage as it will help you not be incorrect.

Got it, I never bothered to look up the exact age, sorry. My point is the same, there are legal limits on marriage which apply to everybody equally.

Some people though are requesting a special exemption from those laws.

I believe in equality and fairness, the law should be blind. The law should apply equally to all. No special rights for anyone.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

If I love my cousin I can't marry them, even if we both consent, nor can I marry a 17 year old, even if she consents

You should do a little more research into the age of consent for marriage as it will help you not be incorrect.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

you can't let people choose on a whim and give them access to any room they please.

No, you can't. Good thing that's not what's happening.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Sterilization is too much, but i do agree with "diagnosed as experiencing distress related to the clash between their identity and assigned sex, over 20 years old and not have children under the age of 20"

pretty logical and meant to protect surrounding people and prove that its not just a whim.

changing once gender aint something you should be able to do by putting pair of panties and declaring yourself a woman.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

How do you change the yes man culture? We cant. We’ve spoken of its many facets of it on this list for a long while now. It’s only the Black Ships that’ll do it. No one will stick their neck out, risk scorn, etc. What or who will make it change is the mystery.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

There are actually many limits on marriage.

Family relations, age, mental retardation and gender.

The law applies to everybody equally.

If I love my cousin I can't marry them, even if we both consent, nor can I marry a 17 year old, even if she consents

Tough break.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

End all marriages and just allow civil unions.

In the end, it's the same thing. But if changing the lingo satisfies some people, why not. Leave marriage to be a social structure, and civil unions to be a legal one.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

I wonder how many of you are honest enough to say you wouldn't do it, and would want the right to do it.

want the right to marry the opposite sex.
2 ( +3 / -1 )

Those who don't meet the minimum age or mental health threshold.

Um yeah, because they can't consent.

Those who fall foul of the rules on consanguineous and legal kinship relationships. Those who are already married to someone or not properly divorced. Those who haven't satisfied a minimum waiting period before remarrying. The laws obviously vary widely from country to country. I'm sure there's a few more that I've missed.

As for these - sure. These people can't be married. But outside of that, they are free to marry anyone they love. Homosexuals, those dirty people who dare to love people with whom they share a common genitalia, are not.

You can try to explain away the bigotry all you want. But that base face remains.

Imagine if it were the reverse - you were only allowed to marry people of the same sex. I wonder how many of you are honest enough to say you wouldn't do it, and would want the right to do it.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

And they lack the right to marry the person they love without limitation by law.

And I, as a straight male, lack the right to marry the person I love without limitation by law. How is this any different?

0 ( +2 / -2 )

End all marriages and just allow civil unions.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

"They have to change the system so that transgender people get the same rights that other people have,"

I don’t subscribe, nor should you, to the idea that the law needs to accommodate subjective self-identification about one’s sexuality as a legal basis for the conferral of rights. Especially if doing so impinges on the right, which people currently enjoy, to expect public facilities to be a places of safety, not laboratories for social engineering. The vast majority of people are not opposed to segregation by sex in such places and accordingly are under no obligation to concede to those who are clamoring for that additional right.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Such as?

Those who don't meet the minimum age or mental health threshold. Those who fall foul of the rules on consanguineous and legal kinship relationships. Those who are already married to someone or not properly divorced. Those who haven't satisfied a minimum waiting period before remarrying. The laws obviously vary widely from country to country. I'm sure there's a few more that I've missed.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

I think a lot of people don't understand transgender because even they don't know what being one is. Some transgender people completely "cross" over, and they have no problem with having surgery to remove all of their former gender. But some transgender people only dress the part or get hormone treatment, etc. So how do you classify these people? 1/2 Trans? 3/4 Trans? It gets so overly complicated so why not have just one definition like Japan and the majority of the world has? The author, and some commentators make it sound as though japan is unique or barbaric to have this law, but this is how gender is viewed in the vast majority of the world.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

"Forced"?

No one has forced him to operate. The law only states that he should not use the men-only bath unless he has had surgery. Is that wrong?

5 ( +7 / -2 )

Such as?

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

they lack the right to marry the person they love without limitation by law

The law also places limits on heterosexual couples. There's a fairly long list of people you cannot marry even if you happen to love them.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

If law is that way, it means the majority wish so. Get law changed, if not means majority is against.

I wish those people happiness.

Alas, when you a straight person, it is disturbing not to know the person gender you talk to. And you don't want to be seen by opposite sex if not wanted (think onsen). It is common sense.

I am against sterelization. It is barbaric.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

"I don't need this operation to become a man - I am a transgender man ... For my family, maybe one option is going to another country to live."

This sounds like the way to go. I think more Japanese should consider moving to other countries such as Thailand and Malaysia. I am not really a fan of marriage in the first place but if they want to marry the law should exist for the people and not the other way around.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

This is so screwed up.

3 ( +8 / -5 )

@Burning (and others..)

wait... why is it a problem for you if any two people who want to get married do so Obviously it's a problem for them if the law prevents them from getting married or attaches a condition of surgery. But how is this a problem for you?

3 ( +8 / -5 )

and that they can't have the same rights as you.

There is no right I have that they don't. I'm not allowed to marry a person of the same gender nor am I allowed to enter the private space of the opposite gender.

So let's keep everything equal.

3 ( +9 / -6 )

In other ‘modern’ countries it is not unusual to see transgender couples having babies through egg implants or proxy mothers. By doing this, they are disallowing these people (yes PEOPLE) the right to have babies in an age with many medical options. Furthermore, of course these couples will also be denied the right to adopt children.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

But they do have the same right as everyone else - the right to marry the opposite sex.

And they lack the right to marry the person they love without limitation by law. All because they love someone with whom they dare to do the evil sin of sharing the same genitalia type.

-7 ( +7 / -14 )

that they can't have the same rights as you

But they do have the same right as everyone else - the right to marry the opposite sex.

11 ( +18 / -7 )

Or third option, don’t have any kind of recognized union.

Or the fourth option, to start treating these people like human beings and stop the bigotry in telling them how to live their own lives, and that they can't have the same rights as you.

-10 ( +8 / -18 )

I think they should be given two options: go under the knife and make permanent physical changes and take hormonal treatment, or have a “garriage”. Either of those options would be a legally recognized union with the same benefits and responsibilities.

Or third option, don’t have any kind of recognized union.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

Japanese law first requires him to undergo sterilization surgery and be diagnosed with a mental disorder because he is transgender

This is just so wrong in so many ways. Is it still 1819 in Japan? Talk about human tights issues. :O

-3 ( +7 / -10 )

Some subjective standard is necessary, otherwise a whole host of problems present themselves. Like what happened in Vancouver when a man demanded entry into a rape crisis center on the basis of being a transwoman.

Women need safe spaces from biological men, therefore a legal, subjective definition should exist for male and female, you can't let people choose on a whim and give them access to any room they please.

15 ( +20 / -5 )

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