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Fishermen take cover to slaughter dolphins in face of Western criticism

142 Comments
By Ruairidh Villar

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"hiding themselves behind a tarpaulin"

B-b-b-bb-b-b-b-b-ut the mayor of Taiji said everyone is wide open and nothing hidden? These guys are a total embarrassment to the nation, and they know it, so they hide out of shame.

28 ( +39 / -12 )

“Dietary culture varies and it is the wisdom of civilization to mutually respect other standpoints unless the world faces a lack of resources,” Nisaka was quoted by Kyodo news agency as telling reporters.

Then you should have no problem respecting our standpoint that this is a brutal and needless slaughter of intelligent animals who have been documented saving the lives of humans from sharks.   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ok097oxyXU   Perhaps it is Nisaka who should try to be more open to outside views; when you have to cover your cove with a tarp at the behest of angrily onlooking eyes from around the world, you might want to consider that some cultural traditions may be best left to the past. Hiding behind the excuse that “it’s our culture, respect it,” doesn’t get you very far if you consider how many cultural traditions the rest of the world has discarded as barbaric. Or should we still be burning witches at the stake just because it used to be our culture and we refuse to grew up?

28 ( +31 / -3 )

Yoshinobu Nisaka...hopeless. “Dietary culture (eating mercury laden dolphin meat?)

varies (and can change)

and it is the wisdom of civilization (Taiji civilization is not wise, it is poor and needs another source of income from the "killing" they make off of murdering and enslaving these mammals)

to mutually respect (and not be open to other points of view from your own)

other standpoints (like Sea Shepherd, and the rest of the world)

unless the world faces a lack of resources" (which will not be solved by killing a bundle of dolphins and keeping captives in zoos and entertainment centers, god help us).

It's just not right to do this Taiji! Invest in whale watching and a moral, just future, not this unending shame and horror.

15 ( +16 / -1 )

I think that japanese society should stop this. Come on! do you need to eat dolphins?

By the way... We all should know that if we like sushi or eat fish or shrimp, here in Buenos Aires or in any other big city of the world, we are also part of the dolphin problem, of the whale problem, of the shark problem, and so on.

If you want to know why I recommend reading "Eating Animals" by Jonathan Safran Foer, a 3 years investigation about the food industry.

14 ( +15 / -1 )

I think that japanese society should stop this. Come on! do you need to eat dolphins?

You can't really call it 'Japanese society'. Most Japanese have never eaten dolphin, and most don't even know that people are eating dolphin. I've never seen it on any menu or in any store in 15 years myself. It's only a small segment of the population in certain areas, hardly representative of Japanese people as a whole.

17 ( +20 / -3 )

The problem is not eating dolphin meat. The problem is how the dolphins are killed. It is only a matter of showing the world that the process of killing the dolphins is not cruel.

I think It would help if the dolphins were not killed in the open.

-17 ( +8 / -25 )

Japanese eats Dolphins and Whale Wow this is a looks like a big massacre.

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

Well, isn't that a bit of a switch around from yesterday's statement from Ueno-San asking Ms. Kennedy to come and watch the 'humane' slaughter? She should go and take a camera crew with her to expose this barbaric practice for what it is.

12 ( +15 / -3 )

I've never seen it on any menu or in any store in 15 years

It's my understanding that it isn't labelled 'dolphin'; it's sold as whale meat. One more instance of deceptive mislabelling. Most Japanese people wouldn't buy it if they knew it was dolphin, even if they're not averse (most are) to eating whale.

I think It would help if the dolphins were not killed in the open.

They are not killed 'in the open'. The butchers try to hide the actual killing behind tarpaulins and 'Danger- Keep Out' signs. One of the gripes they had about The Cove was that a lot of the footage was taken surreptitiously - it had to be, because of the attempts to hide what was going on.

12 ( +18 / -6 )

The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated.

Mahatma Gandhi

Now we see the 'Greatness' of Japan

14 ( +22 / -8 )

It's my understanding that it isn't labelled 'dolphin'; it's sold as whale meat. One more instance of deceptive mislabelling. Most Japanese people wouldn't buy it if they knew it was dolphin, even if they're not averse (most are) to eating whale.

I rarely see whale in the grocery stores either. Most Japanese people don't buy that either, mostly just old people. But I doubt that those who buy whale would have any issue with buying dolphin either.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

The problem is not eating dolphin meat. The problem is how the dolphins are killed. It is only a matter of showing the world that the process of killing the dolphins is not cruel. I think It would help if the dolphins were not killed in the open.

The process is extremely cruel though, as briefly outlined by this article. Also, the dolphins this time were not killed in the open, and as one can see, it did not make a difference. After all the public outcry after this, there is no way mass opinions will change.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

I do not understand why Japan is doing this -- who is backing these dolphin hunts behind the scenes? In many areas of the world, opinions on Japan haven't exactly been favorable, yet they have held strong in the US and many parts of Britain. Not anymore. People in the USA have gone from loving Japan to being absolutely shocked and horrified that the government would defend such a thing.

Personally, I do not think destroying relations between the younger generations in reference to Japan and outer countries is a good idea, and Japan is doing exactly that by allowing these hunts. Too many studies, too many experiences, too many people saved by dolphins for the world to ignore and accept this.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

The people of Taiji probably haven't been outside of the city so they have a different mind set that the "world" and don't understand what the world is feeling. Grandpa might be influenced more by his granddaughter asking why he kills and to please stop killing her friends. I wonder how many kids know about how famous their city is or know how intelligent dolphins are? Donating books on dolphins to the Taiji library or scholarships to international education might be very effective.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Some folks have too much time on their hands

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Recent EIA report said such hunt "on track to wipe out key species." And so this is NOT just an issue of 'dietary culture', but serious worldwide concern.

The report also slammed Japanese government from lack of monitoring to using out-of-date data to set limits.

Report titled "Toxic Catch: Japan’s unsustainable and irresponsible whale, dolphin and porpoise hunts"

http://www.eia-international.org/toxic-catch-japans-unsustainable-and-irresponsible-whale-dolphin-and-porpoise-hunts

5 ( +5 / -0 )

The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated.Mahatma Gandhi

Now we see the 'Greatness' of Japan

Ooh, you have to be careful throwing stones there, unless you're certain that the country you are from is entirely free from any animal trade which involves incarceration, suffering, cruelty and unnecessary killing.

4 ( +10 / -6 )

This kind of act tarnished the nation's great reputation for the environment. They oppose nuclear power and yet they are slaughtering this beautiful and wonderful animal. What a shame!

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Osaka Doug - We can just broadcast reruns of 'Flipper' on a bootleg TV station next to the village.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

I think most younger to baby-bomber generation Japanese view dolphins in the same as Westerners: that dolphins are intelligent, attractive animals who are a friend and ally of humanity. I've seen the dolphin-encounter snorkeling groups in the Izu Islands, for instance.

Of course, they are Japanese, which means that in a confrontation, their nationalism will prevail, and they'll swallow all the propaganda about "culture" and "tradition" without question.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Pablo: "Come on! do you need to eat dolphins?"

Nope. But the few people who carry out this inhumane slaughter certainly like to line their pockets with the fat government subsidies they get for the meat that rots in freezers.

You definitely have to love that the Governor of the prefecture invites Kennedy to see the 'humane' slaughter of these mammals while the tarps are being put up! Exactly what I said yesterday. What a joke!

4 ( +10 / -6 )

Taiji officials said that dolphin meat is "toxic waste" due to "extremely high mercury" level tested. And apparently such "toxic waste" has been given to Japanese school children during their school lunches.

The time has come for Japan to abandon such horrific hunt, to stop disguising a seedy greedy business of supplying captured slaves to aquariums worldwide with excuses like 'dietary culture', a diet that will surely not only cause the hunted extinct, but also the hunters.

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/life/2007/08/01/environment/taiji-officials-dolphin-meat-toxic-waste/#.UttTF_Yo58c http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/20/world/asia/20iht-dolphin.1.10223011.html?pagewanted=all&_r=1&

7 ( +9 / -2 )

http://kiyotani.at.webry.info/201401/article_19.html

For those who can read Japanese, here's an alternative viewpoint.

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

Dolphins live all their lives in freedom, with families, play, and almost infinite space to roam. Dolphin experience human caused suffering for the last few days of their lives. Since I am strongly opposed to causing suffering, I am a strong supporter therefore of the Taji hunt, second to vegetarianism.

I do not believe that the intelligence of dolphins is such that the should be singled out for special protection.

I can not understand why people are being critical of this practice or Japan. I am shocked, saddened and amazed. If intelligence is so valuable, so vaunted then, please think people.

-6 ( +7 / -13 )

It seems to be a tiniest fishing business in tiniest town in the world.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Ah, the blue tarp, used to cover it all in Japan.

8 ( +10 / -2 )

Osaka_DougJan. 22, 2014 - 08:48AM JST

The people of Taiji probably haven't been outside of the city so they have a different mind set that the "world" and don't understand what the world is feeling.

Well, I would say people against the dolphin hunting probably do not know the world outside of the West. Why cannot they just respect the diversity of culture? Do they want everyone in the world to behave like Westerners?

Doing something behind closed doors does not mean the act is illegal, just as what people do behind closed doors in their bedroom is not illegal. People do not need to peek into every closed door they find. The act may be emotional but that does not make it illegal.

Governor of Wakayama Prefecture issues license for the dolphin hunt. He knows very well about the hunt and issues the license. If you have issues against the hunt, write to the governor. http://www.pref.wakayama.lg.jp/prefg/071500/iruka/dolphin_fishery.html

-11 ( +3 / -14 )

The question is that we can really blame people in Taiji, who is fishing dolphin? As many people noted that this is only Taiji people who is doing this and this problem isn't really representing Japanese society. Really? The problem is that we Japanese people are basically indifferent this issue. I never heard this issue become big as much as the world is focucing on. In order to think this critically, we must understand this issue by ourselves and then, we have to talk about it.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Medieval society, not at all, they have tarps to shield them from sham.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

If you have to cover up what you're doing to hide it from the media, you shouldn't be doing it. Just a thought.

7 ( +9 / -2 )

Japan maintains that killing dolphins is not banned under any international treaty and that the animals are not endangered

The old 'why? because we can' combined with obsession over rules crap. In Japan as long as long as something doesn't break a rule/law/treaty it's totally fine..an emotionless people, truly.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Don't think for a second if these fishermen would fall in the water that one of these dolphins wouldn't take a chunk out of these guys. They know the full power these animals posses and won't take any chances, this is one of the reason they have to take brutal actions. But will you see any outrage or footage on the daily news in Japan! not a chance.

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

Is this how the Chinese were handled in Nanjing?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Agreeing with Timtak here, I don't understand why people are attacking that sort of culture. The people of Taiji need not even care what the global community says unless said actions become illegal. The only problem I have is their methods of killing the dolphins. If they used a less bloody way of slaughtering them I wouldn't be against the practice.

-10 ( +2 / -12 )

Dolphins play an integral if little understood role in the health and stability of the oceans's ecology, ecosystems that are fundamental to the survival of man's own environment. If we allow selfish men to destroy them, in the end it may hasten our own doom.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

A real useless news !!!.........It is a part of eco system, human need to find food for them self's... This is just a politics.... trying to act.. !

-11 ( +3 / -14 )

I would say people against the dolphin hunting probably do not know the world outside of the West.

I've lived the greater part of my life in Japan, I know it better than I know the current culture of the UK, where I was born. I love this country. I am absolutely against the dolphin slaughter.

Don't think for a second if these fishermen would fall in the water that one of these dolphins wouldn't take a chunk out of these guys.

If you watch the videos, there are men in wetsuits in the water manhandling the animals into nets or boats.

7 ( +10 / -3 )

"Japan maintains that killing dolphins is not banned under any international treaty and that the animals are not endangered."

When are they going to get it through their thick skulls that this isn't the issue?

6 ( +9 / -3 )

bass4funk - Don't think for a second if these fishermen would fall in the water that one of these dolphins wouldn't take a chunk out of these guys. They know the full power these animals posses and won't take any chances, this is one of the reason they have to take brutal actions. But will you see any outrage or footage on the daily news in Japan! not a chance.

The caption of the photo accompanying this article says, "Fishermen in wetsuits hunt dolphins at a cove in Taiji on Monday". Zooming on the photo shows fishermen in the water with the dolphins.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Kazuaki: "For those who can read Japanese, here's an alternative viewpoint."

Can't see it through the tarp.

4 ( +10 / -6 )

"Dietary culture"

What kind of culture is it, if you go a great length to hide from the rest of the world?

4 ( +7 / -3 )

“Dietary culture varies and it is the wisdom of civilization to mutually respect other standpoints unless the world faces a lack of resources,” Nisaka was quoted

In 15 years here, I have never once seen dolphin on any menu or any store shelf. Never. As for respecting other standpoints unless the world faces a lack of resources - Nisaka would do well to recall how Japan repeatedly rejects calls for them to lower their fishing quotas on species such as Tuna, which have increasingly decreased in numbers over the past decade, due to over-fishing. It all comes back to the same old, tired argument, that it's ''our cultural and traditional right". Sadly, old traditions and culture, have no little to no place in the modern day world, and the world is growing tired of hearing the same rhetoric from Japanese officials.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

"who is backing these dolphin hunts behind the scenes?"

Japan Fisheries Agency allows fisherman to kill dolphins just because they interfear with their profit margins by eating the fishes they are tryin to catch. In 80's they used to use the dolphin meat as furtelizer for their farms. To them, dolphins are pests, in reality the fish belong to dolphins, not to the greedy, profit loving killers of sealife. Dolphins were here much before the humans came into the picture, to them, we are the pests.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

For those who can read Japanese, here's an alternative viewpoint.

I could only read the first half, life's too short to spend it reading rubbish. Not an alternative viewpoint at all, just the same ol' rehashing of 'but it isn't illegal,' 'criticising anything Japanese people do is racist,' 'we're misunderstood,' 'Yoko Ono has been brainwashed/contaminated by the West,' and to cap it all, in the title s/he plays the Godwin card, calling opponents of the dolphin slaughter 'nazis' and claiming in the text that folk who think dolphins are cute are essentially advocating the killing-off of the mentally disabled, Gypsies, Jews and Slavs.

Sheer claptrap.

12 ( +16 / -4 )

Not anymore. People in the USA have gone from loving Japan to being absolutely shocked and horrified that the government would defend such a thing.

Who are you to speak for the West? The majority of people in the US haven't even heard about this issue, and many of those who have heard about it don't care. So long as the animal isn't endangered, whining about another country's diet is simply ethnocentric. I eat beef, and I wouldn't be happy to see Indians campaigning against beef consumption. I would never eat dog, yet I don't complain about its consumption in some North Asian countries. Apply the same standard for dolphins and whales. They're all mammals. None of them are endangered.

-9 ( +6 / -15 )

Deplore, I agree. Those who are against dolphin huting are ethnocentric and cannot respect diversity. All the reasons they bring agaist the hunt is based on their ethnocentric views.

-9 ( +6 / -15 )

hmm isnt Taiji in the Eastern part of Wakayama? which is also surprising because I always thought it was somewhere in Ishikawa.

Before the killing began, fishermen pulled a tarpaulin in front of the cove to prevent activists and reporters from seeing the killing. A large pool of blood seeped under the tarpaulin and spread across the cove.

So they didnt want to show the people what they were doing but it was so gruesome that the blood seeped under the tarp something they didnt think about or something?

1 ( +4 / -3 )

It's the western press that say the west is again the "slaughter". Just search under Tiaji and dolphin and see how many hits you get, under news or not. Dolphin is loaded with mercury. <http://phys.org/news192613952.html > And what tradition? Started in 1969.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

PETA (People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals), the people who care most about preventing suffering to animals, used to run a campaign encouraging us to eat cetaceans, for good reasons.

-7 ( +2 / -9 )

No doubt the mayor of Taiji considered that Ms Kennedy might actually take him up on his "offer", come to Taiji and expose the whole fiasco, so up went the tarpaulins. That`s the end of that discussion

1 ( +4 / -3 )

The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated.

Well I guess there are no nations with "greatness" than.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

U.S. and British ambassadors all around the world closed their eyes when it come to mass human killing in IRAQ and Drone attacks in Afghanistan / Pakistan. ye aaaaaaaa ye its a WAR against terrorism ye aaaaaaa ye dont compare it with Dolphin killing ye aaaaaa ye its truly human if you use all your sophisticated weapons but when you use still rod to kill Dolphin its not acceptable ye aaaaaa ye.

Moderator: Incredible, the way you go off topic.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

When did they begin dolphin hunting? 1969? Does not sound like dolphin hunting is Japanese culture. The majority of Japanese never ate dolphin meat. They eat fish and shrimps, though.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

World saying dolphin killing is bad and this is correct but fisherman will not get it because water resources is likely their main income.

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

For those who say that it's not tradition because they've only been doing it since the '60s, can you please give the exact number of years at which something suddenly switches from 'modern' to 'tradition'?

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

“The Cove” already show everything what they are doing in Taiji. Does it make any sense to take cover to slaughter dolphins in face of WESTERN (ha ha YES it is WESTERN) criticism.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

CH3CHO: "Those who are against dolphin huting are ethnocentric and cannot respect diversity. All the reasons they bring agaist the hunt is based on their ethnocentric views."

Change the word 'against' to 'for' and you are bang on.

Taiji dolphin certainly won't fall under the "World Heritage" status that is Japanese food. Shame the choice was made before the hunt.

4 ( +11 / -7 )

These fishermen have been catching things from the sea and eating them for a long time, including whales and dolphins. The West were the worst decimators of whale stocks when they ate whale meat and used the oil. Now we think we are superior to people who do what we used to. What an ego trap! Probably these fishermen don't want to eat meat that is contaminated by high mercury levels as modern dolphins are supposed to be, but I am sure that more than that they don't want people telling them what they can and can't do as regards their resources and their culture and their history.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

StrangerlandJAN. 22, 2014 - 12:41PM JST For those who say that it's not tradition because they've only been doing it since the '60s, can you please give the exact number of years at which something suddenly switches from 'modern' to 'tradition'?

Allow me to help; Step 1 Go to Google website Step 2 Search "how before something becomes a tradition" Step 3 find answer which is 100 years and/or 3 generations.

Which means Taiji drive hunt of dolphins which began in 1969 is NOT a cultural tradition.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Dolphins play an integral if little understood role in the health and stability of the oceans's ecology, ecosystems that are fundamental to the survival of man's own environment. If we allow selfish men to destroy them, in the end it may hasten our own doom.

The numbers of dolphins killed does not endanger them as a species, so sustainability and the ecosystem isn't an issue. The argument defending the practice - it's a tradition - seems specious. The way the dolphins are killed certainly seems barbaric.

But if a less barbaric way of killing the dolphins were employed, would people still oppose the Taiji practice? And if so, why?

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Allow me to help; Step 1 Go to Google website Step 2 Search "how before something becomes a tradition" Step 3 find answer which is 100 years and/or 3 generations.

I did google it - and this is what I found:

D Lekkas, professor in Greek Open University, claims that this time should not be less than 3 generations (about 100 years)

(Source: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=1006041702217)

Ok, so we have one person's opinion that this is what makes a tradition. But he is just one person, and I found other people in that same google search saying if you do something for a two or more years it becomes tradition. So maybe maybe we could consult something a little more agreed upon as a source of information - the dictionary.

tradition [truh-dish-uhn] noun

1.the handing down of statements, beliefs, legends, customs, information, etc., from generation to generation, especially by word of mouth or by practice: a story that has come down to us by popular tradition.

Ok, at least 2 generations have been hunting dolphins in Taiji. Point 1: check.

2.something that is handed down: the traditions of the Eskimos.

Again, having been done by generations, it has been handed down in Taiji. Point 2: check.

3.a long-established or inherited way of thinking or acting: The rebellious students wanted to break with tradition.

44+ years is a pretty long time - longer than a good portion of the posters on this site have been alive. Point 3: check.

a continuing pattern of culture beliefs or practices.

They are still doing it. Point 4: check.

a customary or characteristic method or manner: The winner took a victory lap in the usual track tradition.

Ok, this one maybe not so much.

(Source: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/tradition)

4/5 definitions of the dictionary match the actions in Taiji. So I think that it's safe to say that by the established meaning of the word in the English language, the dolphin hunt is in fact tradition. A newer one to be sure, but according to the definition of the word, a tradition nonetheless.

-6 ( +4 / -10 )

CH3CHO: "Those who are against dolphin huting are ethnocentric and cannot respect diversity. All the reasons they bring agaist the hunt is based on their ethnocentric views."

Change the word 'against' to 'for' and you are bang on.

so you're saying that YOUR ethnocentric views are more valid than the japanese's? how morally superior you must be, smithinjapan.

Taiji dolphin certainly won't fall under the "World Heritage" status that is Japanese food. Shame the choice was made before the hunt.

since this is an annual hunt that has been going on for many decades, UNESCO was well aware of it, and they obviously , and rightly, believe that it has no bearing on the totallity of japanese cuisine.

-7 ( +3 / -10 )

The caption of the photo accompanying this article says, "Fishermen in wetsuits hunt dolphins at a cove in Taiji on Monday". Zooming on the photo shows fishermen in the water with the dolphins.

Yes and most of the dolphins were severely bludgeoned before going in. Do you think they could go in any other way? I had a chance to see the. Up close Scuba diving, contrary to what you see on TV, these animals are huge, heavy and powerful. I would never to piss it off.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

4/5 definitions of the dictionary match the actions in Taiji. So I think that it's safe to say that by the established meaning of the word in the English language, the dolphin hunt is in fact tradition. A newer one to be sure, but according to the definition of the word, a tradition nonetheless.

Well, done, but really the issue here is not with the definition of the word 'tradition', it is the fact the Japanese are claiming dolphin drive killing is an ancient tradition dating back to the 16th century, which in actual fact it isn't.I suggest googling this also before commenting.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Love how the J business interests and politicians selectively choose which "traditions " to defend. Hey, I remember seppuku for commiting an dishonorable act was a famous Japanese tradition - wonder why the J business and political leaders don`t defend and honor that particular custom.Guess there wouldnt be many of them left after a couple of months. Anyway Mr Nisaka - it is also a "wisdom of civilization " to evolve and discard outdated and obsolete traditions.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

The only real point here is ; What does the Law say? Is it legal or illegal? Whether certain activists like it or dislike it is irrelevant.

-8 ( +4 / -12 )

Well, done, but really the issue here is not with the definition of the word 'tradition', it is the fact the Japanese are claiming dolphin drive killing is an ancient tradition dating back to the 16th century, which in actual fact it isn't.I suggest googling this also before commenting.

I suggest you show us where they (and who 'they' are) saying this, so that your claim doesn't come across as baseless.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

Jean ValJeanJAN. 22, 2014 - 01:56PM JST The only real point here is ; What does the Law say? Is it legal or illegal? Whether certain activists like it or dislike it is irrelevant. Why is THAT not to be discussed here on this so-called "discussion forum"? Is this China, where only party-approved opinion can be aired?

So no matter what people do anywhere in the world, as long as it is 'law' it's okay.

That means you are okay with; Spanish bull fighting Female genital mutilation Public stoning Banning girls from education Child labour

Are you okay with these 'legal' acts?

3 ( +3 / -0 )

StrangerlandJAN. 22, 2014 - 02:04PM JST Well, done, but really the issue here is not with the definition of the word 'tradition', it is the fact the Japanese are claiming dolphin drive killing is an ancient tradition dating back to the 16th century, which in actual fact it isn't.I suggest googling this also before commenting. I suggest you show us where they (and who 'they' are) saying this, so that your claim doesn't come across as baseless.

I already did yesterday, I ain't doin it again. You have web access right?

4 ( +6 / -2 )

smithinjapanJan. 22, 2014 - 12:47PM JST

"Diversity" means to ALLOW different activities, even if such activities are not to the liking of you.

Jean ValJeanJan. 22, 2014 - 01:56PM JST

The only real point here is ; What does the Law say?

Absolutely. The hunt is allowed by the license issued by the governor of Wakayama Prefecture.

-3 ( +4 / -8 )

I'm not going to search around for your claims. If you believe that 'The Japanese' have been saying this, it's up to you to prove it. I simply showed how all those people are claiming that it's not tradition are incorrect by the agreed upon definition of the word 'tradition'. You see, I made the point of showing something to support my claims. You haven't done so.

Of course, you don't have to, but then I'm only left with thinking that you are either making it up, misunderstanding what you read, or quoting some random guy who may or may not be crazy.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

If Nisaka is so proud of this cultural activity, why the hiding behind blue vinyl sheets?

3 ( +5 / -1 )

StrangerlandJAN. 22, 2014 - 02:10PM JST I'm not going to search around for your claims. If you believe that 'The Japanese' have been saying this, it's up to you to prove it. I simply showed how all those people are claiming that it's not tradition are incorrect by the agreed upon definition of the word 'tradition'. You see, I made the point of showing something to support my claims. You haven't done so. Of course, you don't have to, but then I'm only left with thinking that you are either making it up, misunderstanding what you read, or quoting some random guy who may or may not be crazy.

Perhaps you missed the information revolution - if you question anything you can now simply search the web.

Sigh..

http://tinyurl.com/kyjp7x4

http://tinyurl.com/otak9a6

http://tinyurl.com/lzqo3zu

"This claim of 'Japanese tradition' is nonsense," stated Ric O’Barry, Director of Earth Island's Dolphin Project in a press release to Digital Journal. "The dolphin drive hunts, according to the town's own written history, says a couple of drive hunts occurred in 1936 and 1944," he added, "but the current series of hunts only began in 1969."

1 ( +2 / -1 )

No bickering please.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

StrangerlandJan. 22, 2014 - 02:10PM JST

Here is a link to a research paper on the histry of whaling and dolphin hunting in Japan. http://www.seijo.ac.jp/graduate/gslit/orig/journal/jomin/pdf/sjpn-24-03.pdf

On page 6, it discusses the hunting in Taiji in 1606.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Who are you to speak for the West? The majority of people in the US haven't even heard about this issue,

Yes I have been watching this news over and over on CNN 24/7 since a couple days ago, and my ears are just about coming off.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

it is the fact the Japanese are claiming dolphin drive killing is an ancient tradition dating back to the 16th century

Link 1:

Taiji Dolphin Drives Started in 1969, and Are Not a Part of Japanese Tradition

I didn't disagree with the dolphin drives having started in '69. On the contrary, I actually gave 44+ years as the amount of time it having been done. 44 years ago was 1970. So the link is incorrect, even if the date is correct. It is a tradition.

Now that all said, I didn't see anything in that link that said the Japanese have been claiming it's a tradition since the 16th century.

Link 2:

Taiji is regarded as the spiritual home of Japan's coastal whaling industry. The first hunts took place in the early 1600s, according to the town's whaling museum, but the industry went into decline after the introduction of a global ban on commercial whaling in 1986.

A lot of talk about the whaling going on since the 1600s, but nothing on hunting dolphins.

Link 3: A google search.

So it looks like your claims that "The Japanese" have been claiming that the dolphin hunt has been going on since the 1600s are baseless. Or at least, you haven't managed to back them up yet. Had I been doing your research for you like you asked, it looks like I may be on a long search, trying to find something that you haven't even been able to find.

And I still stand by my claim, which I supported, that the hunt is tradition, according to the agreed upon definition of the word.

-7 ( +1 / -7 )

Here is a link to a research paper on the histry of whaling and dolphin hunting in Japan. http://www.seijo.ac.jp/graduate/gslit/orig/journal/jomin/pdf/sjpn-24-03.pdf On page 6, it discusses the hunting in Taiji in 1606.

It discusses whaling. I don't see anything on that page speaking of dolphins, though to be fair, if there is a kanji for dolphin I don't know it, so I may just not be seeing it.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

Dolphins are part of the whale genus, specifically toothed whales. Dead easy.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

stranegerland So it looks like your claims that "The Japanese" have been claiming that the dolphin hunt has been going on since the 1600s are baseless. Or at least, you haven't managed to back them up yet. Had I been doing your research for you like you asked, it looks like I may be on a long search, trying to find something that you haven't even been able to find.

"An anonymous fisherman said his and other fishermen’s livelihood should not be adversely affected by a tradition that has been in Japan for centuries." http://tinyurl.com/kgvytvc

"Many Japanese citizens, within the local community, herald the occasion as a longstanding tradition." http://tinyurl.com/lhmmqvy

"The drive hunt is a traditional fishery that was established long before the foundation of the United States of America," said one message posted in response." http://tinyurl.com/okc5wey

1 ( +3 / -2 )

"An anonymous fisherman said his and other fishermen’s livelihood should not be adversely affected by a tradition that has been in Japan for centuries." http://tinyurl.com/kgvytvc

Ok, we have one 'anonymous' fisherman. Hardly qualifies as "The Japanese".

"Many Japanese citizens, within the local community, herald the occasion as a longstanding tradition." http://tinyurl.com/lhmmqvy

A) "Many Japanese" - hardly qualified. Who exactly are these 'many Japanese'?

B) 45 years can be considered "longstanding"

"The drive hunt is a traditional fishery that was established long before the foundation of the United States of America," said one message posted in response."

"One message" posted by who? Again, hardly qualifies as "The Japanese". After all, we have all sorts of "one message"s being posted by random people all over this thread.

The question of whether or not "The Japanese" have been claiming that dolphin hunting has been going on since the 1600s is a tenuous one at best. A bunch of links supposedly claiming this have been given, but it's a random person here or there. But it's a moot point really, as the agreed upon time that the hunt has been going on regularly is 1969. And as I showed earlier, according to the definition of the word 'tradition', it is in fact a tradition. So people can keep posting these tenuous links, but they don't really change it from being a tradition at all. At best all they do is show that some Japanese people don't know what they are talking about. Much the same as some posters in this thread (no one in particular) don't know what they are talking about.

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

Dolphins are being killed in Taiji behind tarps so that people cannot see them being killed. I think it is surely to prevent people from seeing the killing, after all that's why they use the cove rather than the beach. Why? because no one likes to watch killing.

so don't be bent and twisted about what they do in Taiji. X

-5 ( +1 / -7 )

@Maria,

Ooh, you have to be careful throwing stones there, unless you're certain that the country you are from is entirely free from any animal trade which involves incarceration, suffering, cruelty and unnecessary killing.

This comment doesnt make sense Maria. Youd have to prove that those individuals support what their countries are doing. You see, unlike Japanese, Most individuals dont arbitrarily support their countries actions just because they are of that nationality. Japanese do. As long as its Japanese culture or tradition or whatever, that is apparently a good enough reason. My country does stupid things too but I don`t support them. Japanese need to get off the "We all think the same wagon."

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Stranegrland

The question of whether or not "The Japanese" have been claiming that dolphin hunting has been going on since the 1600s is a tenuous one at best. A bunch of links supposedly claiming this have been given, but it's a random person here or there. But it's a moot point really, as the agreed upon time that the hunt has been going on regularly is 1969. And as I showed earlier, according to the definition of the word 'tradition', it is in fact a tradition. So people can keep posting these tenuous links, but they don't really change it from being a tradition at all. At best all they do is show that some Japanese people don't know what they are talking about. Much the same as some posters in this thread (no one in particular) don't know what they are talking about.

Sorry, I haven't done any quantitative research on the percentages of Japanese that claim dolphin drive hunt is an ancient tradition or not. But the quotes at least give an indication that one of the main densenesses Japanese give for continuing the hunt are that it is an ancient tradition, which is clearly groundless.

You are right that some might claim 44 years is long enough to call something tradition, but not sure you would find many who would agree. Can we leave it at that and move on?

1 ( +4 / -3 )

You see, unlike Japanese, Most individuals dont arbitrarily support their countries actions just because they are of that nationality.

I think you are incorrect on this assumption. You may not be that way, but if you have left your country, you probably aren't the norm either. I would go so far as to say most people in the world will arbitrarily support their country, just because they are of that nationality. Some of us from multicultural countries with relatively short histories may be a little more open to the idea of not blindly supporting our country. But when you consider ~1/3 of the population of the world is China and India, two countries that are filled mostly with people who do blindly support their country, I don't think it's a big stretch to come up with a few more countries that would qualify for 'most'.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

StrangerlandJan. 22, 2014 - 02:29PM JST

Here is a link to a picture scroll of targets of "whaling" drawn in 1723 in Kumano, Wakayama. Kumano is an area that includes Taiji. http://gazo.dl.itc.u-tokyo.ac.jp/kujira/00001/kmview-zoom.htm

The 2nd, 3rd, and 4th pictures of the target list are dolphins.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Sorry, I haven't done any quantitative research on the percentages of Japanese that claim dolphin drive hunt is an ancient tradition or not. But the quotes at least give an indication that one of the main densenesses Japanese give for continuing the hunt are that it is an ancient tradition, which is clearly groundless.

I beg to differ. Of the articles given, the grand total of Japanese shown to claim it's an ancient tradition were "one anonymous" person, and "many townspeople". So while the claim may be groundless, it's not even clear if more than a handful of people, if anyone - out of a country of 130 million - are claiming so.

You are right that some might claim 44 years is long enough to call something tradition, but not sure you would find many who would agree. Can we leave it at that and move on?

Those who disagree are trying to re-define the agreed upon definition of the word, trying to bend it to their own biases. Whether or not they agree is irrelevant. By the definition of the word, it is a tradition. There is no denying that. All there is, is denying whether or not that tradition justifies the hunt.

And it may not - I haven't condemned it or agreed upon it myself. I'm still a fence sitter on this one for the most part. The blood turns me off as much as anyone. But the protesters turn me off too. It seems like one somewhat reprehensible group vs. another.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

@Strangerland,

Ok. Lets say Western and/or developed countries as a lot of the discussion is directed at the Western opinion of the hunt. But without question the Japanese do think this way. Dont even go there. Been here long enough. Japan is a modern society with just as much access to information as any other place so theres no excuse they cant look into things independently. Ask someone here about most things and their answer is "Because Im Japanese" or "We Japanese." This automated type of response just doesnt cut the mustard.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Here is a link to a picture scroll of targets of "whaling" drawn in 1723 in Kumano, Wakayama. Kumano is an area that includes Taiji. http://gazo.dl.itc.u-tokyo.ac.jp/kujira/00001/kmview-zoom.htm The 2nd, 3rd, and 4th pictures of the target list are dolphins.

Would that not go to back up any claims that it is in fact a tradition going back centuries?

If so, then I don't know why you are addressing your posts to me, I've never claimed it didn't go back centuries. I've just shown how it's a tradition even if it only goes back to 1969.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

StrangerlandJan. 22, 2014 - 03:20PM JST

Of the articles given, the grand total of Japanese shown to claim it's an ancient tradition were "one anonymous" person, and "many townspeople". So while the claim may be groundless, it's not even clear if more than a handful of people, if anyone - out of a country of 130 million - are claiming so.

You are a bit too hasty to make that grand remark. Relax and watch these beautiful pictures of dolphin hunting in 1723 in Wakayama Japan. http://gazo.dl.itc.u-tokyo.ac.jp/kujira/00001/kmview-zoom.htm

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

CH3CHO - I've never claimed it didn't go back to the 1600s. I'm not sure why you are directing your comments at me. Your posts actually serve to back up the claims that I'm making - that it is a tradition. But you keep phrasing your posts as if you are rebutting something I'm saying.

Japan is a modern society with just as much access to information as any other place so theres no excuse they cant look into things independently.

Such as seeing all the information about the dolphin hunt, and the protests surrounding it, on the news? (Anyone who watches the news here will get the irony in that statement).

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

"TAIJI — Japanese fishermen drove a large group of dolphins into the shallows and killed at least 30 on Tuesday, hiding themselves behind a tarpaulin, as the annual dolphin hunt that sparked protest in the West entered its final stages."

Like the official who refused to be named, if they're so sure of the cultural right o slaughter animals in such a manner, why hide behind tarpaulin? My guess is they know if the Japanese public saw such a mess that would soon put an end to such 'traditions' - and the government 'subsidies' that no doubt come with it.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

@point of view.

Ask someone here about most things and their answer is "Because Im Japanese" or "We Japanese."

You have truly hit the nail on the proverbial head. Even though many Japanese may privately disagree with the hunt, they feel compelled to come to the defence of the fishermen because the pressure is "gaiatsu", coming from outside Japan. I put it down to discouragement of critical thinking in the education system.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

As for the headline try to twist things. This is normal and not news and they do that every year. Not many slaughter houses are out in the open. Usually in a building. Anyone who knows where their food comes from can tell you that.

1 ( +4 / -2 )

hatsoff, teacherX, I completely agree. I, too have had rational, germane, respectful posts deleted and heavily edited, whereas highly emotionally unhinged, irrational posts remain. Pfff!

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

This isn't a hunt, it is a slaughter. "A metal rod was stabbed into their spinal cord, where they were left to bleed out, suffocate and die." 50 out of 200 get sold to aquariums, and the rest are just killed. Tuna gets a lot worse treatment, but that is another subject of what is ethical or not.

If you look at traditional hunting/fishing, where you need a tag to bag the animal you want. You cant just go on a killing spree and kill what ever, there are so many rules as to what you can bag. Such as their antlers, length (for fish), etc. So you can "hunt" for a specific type of that animal and bag a specific number of that animal. That is hunting and also helps preserve the animal and not disrupt too much in their "world".

Compare it to this, there are are no rules as to what is a regulated catch and they are trapping them until they decide to kill them. I can't really comment on the process other than that, but how moral is it? Apparently not very moral on a global standard and there apparently is no regulation on it, so the guys there are acting according to the law. This aspect we have to respect, despite how gruesome their actions are.

You cant put all the blame on those guys... cause they are allowed to do it, BUT you can pressure the government to make rules and regulations. "Japan maintains that killing dolphins is not banned under any international treaty and that the animals are not endangered."

But knowing how Japan is with whaling... this sure wont go over any good.

Also, what are they really doing with the meat? Does it get shipped out? How is it labeled and tracked? All these would be good to know so people can campaign for changes to be made and not just say, "save the dolphins". It just looks like complaining and wont get any backing legally, which is the first step to... saving the dolphins...

1 ( +5 / -3 )

If believing that and killing dolphins is awful and pointless makes me ethnocentric then fair enough. If the people there had to eat them in order to survive then I would have no qualms with that, but that isn't the case. And seeing as how their intelligence comes very close to that of man, who can easily choose to find other sources of food, it becomes even worse.

I'm not up in arms about this to the point of insulting people or telling them how backwards their country is...but there it is.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Those who are against dolphin huting are ethnocentric and cannot respect diversity. All the reasons they bring agaist the hunt is based on their ethnocentric views.

Rubbish! I don't know how many times I've said this, but this has nothing to do with Japan-bashing... it's that the dolphins are being killed at all. They are not farm animals. They are not fish, a harvest of the sea. They are a fellow mammal of high intelligence. They feel pain, fear, distress, sadness.... and why don't they attack the divers? Because they aren't vicious killers. They don't see us as a threat - maybe they should.

So stop with the racism card - this has nothing to do with the fishermen being Japanese. It's to do with them being brutal thugs... I would feel the same if they had been British, Icelandic or Indian. Their nationality is irrelevant.

4 ( +7 / -2 )

Dolphins deserve better.

2 ( +7 / -4 )

Thunderbird2Jan. 22, 2014 - 05:31PM JST

I think your argument is just emotional and irrational. I see no point in your argument that the fishermen there should stop the hunt. Probably that is because we have no common ground.

-7 ( +2 / -9 )

I think dolphin hunt can be ended, as long as people in Taiji can keep on make living with other things, and personally I have no problem with that.

However, for me that is not because dolphins are special., or not because Taiji people are inhumane. I cannot sympathize with those people who uses dirty words and criticizes people in Taiji as if they are barbarians. I think that is simply rude and arrogant. When dirty words, or provacative measures are used towards these people, it is quite normal for not all but some people to start sympathizing with fishermans in Taiji.

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

While most posters bemoan the perceived inhumanity of the dolphin hunt with shrill shrieks, the fact remains that the practice is well within the Japanese legal system and is unlikely to change by outsider hissing and caterwauling. Instead, if anything, the wailing and moaning only makes the protesters resemble petulant children stomping their feet.

-5 ( +3 / -9 )

I dont believe any humans can consuming 'Dolphin meats', it has heavy metal inside and might causing damages to human nerves system. So I am very puzzled why Japanese fishermen hunting dolphins

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Jean Valjean:

" While most posters bemoan the perceived inhumanity of the dolphin hunt with shrill shrieks, the fact remains that the practice is well within the Japanese legal system "

Not so. Many practises that were well within the Japanese legal system have been change by criticism from abroad. The Japanese even have a word for that: "gaiatsu".

3 ( +5 / -2 )

@CH3CHO

I think your argument is just emotional and irrational. I see no point in your argument that the fishermen there should stop the hunt. Probably that is because we have no common ground.

So to you a dolphin is just a lump of meat swimming around waiting for death? Its sole raison d'etre is to end up on a plate? It's fine to chase them into a cove where they are coralled and then butchered in front of their siblings, young, parents? Decimating entire family units is fine?

I don't care if they are not endangered. I don't care if it's a tradition. It needs to stop. If that's irrational then fine, I'm a raving loon. Can't help that.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

Thunderbird2Jan. 22, 2014 - 07:52PM JST

I can only say the argument is emotion based.

WilliBJan. 22, 2014 - 07:22PM JST

Many practises that were well within the Japanese legal system have been change by criticism from abroad. The Japanese even have a word for that: "gaiatsu".

It is also know as tyranny of majority. Seriously, how should the practice of people who do things differently from the majority be protected, provided that we agree that tyranny of majority should be avoided? I stand with minority.

-3 ( +4 / -6 )

'The greatness of a nation can be judged by how its animals are treated' I fully agree. That's why I wouldn't treat people who take part in this hunt too harshly.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

CH3CHO:

" It is also know as tyranny of majority. "

No, foreign criticism is not a "tyranny of majority" in any matter, shape, or form. Open criticism is freedom of speech, and that is one of the foundations of modernity.

Nobody is forcing the Dolphin hunters to stop what they are doing, but they have to face the criticism, and if they are proud of what they are doing, they should no need to hide behind big blue vinyl sheets.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

WilliBJan. 22, 2014 - 08:17PM JST

Nobody is forcing the Dolphin hunters to stop what they are doing,

Good to hear that.

but they have to face the criticism, and if they are proud of what they are doing, they should no need to hide behind big blue vinyl sheets.

Is there a law that prohibits setting screens to block unwanted cameras? Is it OK to shoot a photo, even if the people in the photo explicitly said, "No", to the shooting?

In addition to those problems, the fishermen are of the opinion that the Western media are biased. I am pretty sure they are. Why do the fishermen need to give opportunity to sell paper for those biased media?

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

No, foreign criticism is not a "tyranny of majority" in any matter, shape, or form. Open criticism is freedom of speech, and that is one of the foundations of modernity.

The tyranny of majority is not the opposite of freedom of speech. In this case they exist side-by-side. It is the tyranny of majority, and the majority are able to speak as they want because of freedom of speech.

Nobody is forcing the Dolphin hunters to stop what they are doing

Well, no one is able to force them to stop, because they are not doing anything illegal. But that is exactly what everyone is trying to do - bully them into stopping. Which is ironic that we have one thread on the go where everyone decries bullying, then another thread (this one), where many of those same people are attempting to bully.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Nobody is forcing the Dolphin hunters to stop what they are doing, but they have to face the criticism, and if they are proud of what they are doing, they should no need to hide behind big blue vinyl sheets.

I think they are more worried about foreigners attacking their way of life and trying to reduce unwanted media attention. Any images of killing will offend people and thus covering it will reduce the offence.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

In the end of the day , its just a normal day of work for fishermen to bring income to their families. I wish them well. Whoever wants to take away their livelihood has a responsibility to find an agreeable alternative for them.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

TeacherXJAN. 22, 2014 - 08:32PM JST Nobody is forcing the Dolphin hunters to stop what they are doing, but they have to face the criticism, and if they are proud of what they are doing, they should no need to hide behind big blue vinyl sheets. I think they are more worried about foreigners attacking their way of life and trying to reduce unwanted media attention. Any images of killing will offend people and thus covering it will reduce the offence.

The Faroe Islands dolphin hunt is not hidden from the public, search it on Google it;s out in the open. And yes, they are heavily criticised by the international community and Sea Shepherd etc.

Why do the Taiji fisherman have to cover up? I think it's to prevent domestic criticism because every Japanese person I've shown uncovered pictures of the hunt are horrified and confused as to why they never heard about it. I think the government tells them to hide as well.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

I agree with Teacher X.

When you show detailed depiction of dolphin hunting it is impulsive for sure, it works to your emotion. But when I watch documentary films of wild life, where predators are hunting down their preys, I feel the same emotional shock as watching dolphin hunting. Or when I see traditional hunters in Japan called matagi finishes lives of animals they hunted, I get shocked in the same way. They are all impulsive but obviously most people don't say latter two is evil(there are people who claim hunting is cruel but these matagi are hunting for their living). So whether the appearance of certain act impulsive or not does not necessarily decide whether it is evil or not but those against dolphin hunting seems to be connecting them.

0 ( +6 / -6 )

@UR22335

Very well said. And I feel the same. watching dolphins get killed is horrible the same with all animals its not a nice thing to watch. But that's where food comes from and I'm aware of that. This is why they are covering the cove with tarps its not nice to watch but that's their livelihood and life in Taiji.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

So those not against the slaughter think we are against it because it looks nasty? If it wasn't so brutal we'd be okay with it? BZZZ! Wrong... Dolphins should not be killed, full stop. By anyone. They don't exist just so we can eat them.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

@Thunderbird2

They don't exist just so we can eat them.

Technically humans are at the top of the food chain and as such anything bellow that is "Fair Game" your choice is not to eat them and that is fine no arguments from me.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Thunderbirds2

This is Japan-bashing. Japan has been expressing many times its will to continue this practice in Japan legally and to be prepared to endure critisizm. And yet you and many other posters here are endlessly critisizing Japan and discussing ways to make Japan change its attitude without any legal grands and with intent to hurt J people, although there are lots of more serious and urgent direct issues in your country and the world waiting to be addressed.

-7 ( +2 / -9 )

Ooh, you have to be careful throwing stones there, unless you're certain that the country you are from is entirely free from any animal trade which involves incarceration, suffering, cruelty and unnecessary killing.

Maria: this is a variant on an old and tired argument, which usually emerges in a number of ways:

1) "If you don't like the way they do things in Japan, why don't you go back to your own country (and stop criticizing Japan).

2) "You criticize Japan, but your country has faults therefore your criticism is unjusitified (so stop criticizing Japan).

3) " You do not even live in Japan! It is not your place to criticize it. If you lived here then you could have a stake in society and your opinions can be heard (so stop criticizing Japan) [but note argument #1].

In your case, you have given a variant on #2. Is no one allowed to talk about animal welfare unless their country is perfect? Does that mean Ghandi's comment was equally invalid since India did not treat animals terribly well?

If you believe that slaughtering sentient beings unneccessarilly is wrong, I do not think your country of birth has anything to do with it. Many people are unhappy with their own country's animal welfare.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

@tinawatanabe. I have said countless times that I am not Japan bashing - indeed I have said at least three times so far in related threads that I don't care who is doing the killing - they could come from Mars for all the difference it makes to me. I just want the killing of dolphins, in any country, to stop.

How is that Japan bashing?

6 ( +8 / -2 )

@tinawatanabe

We're not all Americans, and I have no ill-feelings towards the people of Japan - I go to Japan every year for my holidays. What upsets myself and others is that this one village, whether through sheer bloody mindedness or not decides to kill masses of dolphins. The methods used are irrelevant to me.

Why don't they just go and fish for... fish. Why dolphins? Surely they know that dolphins are loved all over the world?

7 ( +8 / -1 )

Thunderbird2 Because you and others are ignoring J people's will to continue this practice. Why you ignore the will of J people? Because you put your value higher than J value. Why? Because J people are inferior species of human being than you. If you don't think that way, you don't ignore J people's will.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

I have no problem with the consumption of meat (dolphin meat included). It's not an unnatural behaviour and is practiced by many other animals. What I do have a problem with is the cruel way in which animals are treated, and the excessive amount of meat (and food in general) that is consumed in many countries. Not to mention there are too many human beings in the world when compared to the resources available, but that's another subject.

I don't think dolphins shouldn't be eaten because they're intelligent.

Gandhi was right in saying that "The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated" and in that respect the whole world still has a long way to go.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

I don't think dolphins are loved all over the world. Japan doesn't love them as much as you do. It's only one of animals. To Japanese all animals are equal. You can't force Japan to love them. That's white superimacy. Japan loves Taiji human being more than dolphins animal.

-9 ( +2 / -11 )

Thunderbird2 Could you give me other words then to better describe your action that forcing Japan your value?

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

The Taiji dolphin drive hunt is a problem; it is not traditional Japanese culture (even Taiji people will admit), is cruel and unnecessary. If they could kill the dolphins instantly without causing them to suffer for days in fear and stress I would not complain.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

My own country of birth in the not too distant past outlawed an outrageous 'tradition' of barbarism towards living creatures which I opposed ( I'm sure other Brits know what I'm referring to ). I was mortified when a Japanese coworker told me that it was one of his images of my home country and asked me if I had ever joined this filth. I like to be judged on my individual character rather than my origins. I find generalizations about what an entire culture 'believes' insulting and nonsensical. I know many Japanese who oppose this slaughter ( surprisingly few are aware in my experience ) and I'm sure there are many more. I think some would do better to speak for themselves and not do their country a disservice.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

@TeacherX

Japanese dolphin hunting will have no impact globally. follow your culture in your country and Japanese will follow their culture in Japan.

Welcome to the 21st century and the global community of humanity, Japan inclusive. Nobody owns the oceans or the dolphins - we are all responsible for the protection of the worlds wildlife and natural resources. If you want to participate in this global community you gotta listen to them; you don't have to get upset or do anything, but you need to listen and accept, not ignore or brush aside.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

@letsberealistic

Nobody owns the oceans or the dolphins

Territorial waters and economic zone! Same as catching fish.

you don't have to get upset or do anything, but you need to listen and accept, not ignore or brush aside.

Do I sound upset? And no Japanese don't have to accept. Listen yes but only to messages sent through the correct diplomatic channels, in diplomatic language.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

It is quite a media blitz that Sea Shepard is able to put together. In the words of spin savvy Watson "truth is irrelevant" and "What we do is provide the media with the kind of stories they can't resist". Focusing on this small village of working class fisherman generates sufficient mob fervor to generate yet more donations for Sea Shepard. I am fully in favor resource management, but this show has nothing to do with resource management, dolphins are not an endangered species.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

Who are you to speak for the West? The majority of people in the US haven't even heard about this issue,

Yes I have been watching this news over and over on CNN 24/7 since a couple days ago, and my ears are just about coming off.

. You've got enough to eat. If not stopped, we will go after Japan Tuna overfishing. That will be the next.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/20/world/asia/japan-dolphin-hunt/index.html http://www.latimes.com/world/worldnow/la-fg-wn-japan-dolphin-kill-criticism-20140121,0,6941058.story#axzz2rABII04y

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-01-22/japans-dolphin-hunt-ends-for-the-year-and-the-whale-hunt-continues

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Tinawatanabe:

" This is Japan-bashing "

No, it is not. In the same way that criticizing the Icelandic whale hunt is "Iceland bashing" or criticizing e.g. the eating of live monkey brains in China is "China bashing".

Critizing a particular action is not "bashing" the whole country.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

Thunderbird2Jan. 23, 2014 - 05:34AM JST

The only responses that there appear to be from the supporters are that it's a tradition.

Well, I see the other way around. You have yet to give any reason that the hunt should be stopped. You just keep telling your emotion and everyone in the world should feel like you do. I do not feel like you do and you cannot make me feel like you do.

Japanese law says the hunt is OK. Sure, there are cases that the law should be revoked, namely, if the law is against the constitution, especially if the law is against the bill of rights, or if the law contradicts other laws or treaties. I do not see any provision in the Bill of Rights here that gives any right to dolphins.

That leaves to persuade Japanese to change their laws. If you believe in democracy, persuasion should look more like persuasion than condemning or threatening.

I personally believe dolphin hunting in something we can agree to disagree. Leave them alone.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

OK you WilliB and Thunderbird2 may not be doing Japan-bashing, but some posters who are using dirty words may be. Anyway you have to understand Japan is very confident that Japan is right in this. To Japanese you are discriminating animals based on intelligence and looks. And another wrong thing you're doing is you demand Japan to ignore Japan's view and accept yours in Japan's business without any justifiable reason.

-7 ( +2 / -9 )

I think what really needs to stop is this reactionary, irrational nationalist response that goes something like "criticizing anything Japan does is bad, because Japan is the holy land of the Gods and nothing Japan does can ever be bad because Japan is perfect in every single way."

Stop defending whaling and dolphin killing for the sake deflecting criticism just because it is criticized. You're just being immature and childish by being so reactionary and defensive.

Tips to the Japanese (I am Japanese): throwing temper tantrums don't work in the rest of the world outside of Japan. Saying that it's "racist" or "Japan-bashing" doesn't work. Saying "others do it too" doesn't work. Get over it and grow up.

8 ( +11 / -3 )

Eiji Takano you are viewing this from outside of Japan and critisizing the view from Japan. Is it wrong to defend Japan's view? And you used quotation mark to describe nobody's view. I've read most posts here but nobody said anything like that. It's all your imagination. It's wrong to critisize others from your imagination. No posters who are defending Japan's postion seems throwing temper tantrums or being childish, rather they're quite calm and logical.

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

tinawatanabeJAN. 23, 2014 - 02:03PM JST Eiji Takano you are viewing this from outside of Japan and critisizing the view from Japan. Is it wrong to defend Japan's view? And you used quotation mark to describe nobody's view. I've read most posts here but nobody said anything like that. It's all your imagination. It's wrong to critisize others from your imagination. No posters who are defending Japan's postion seems throwing temper tantrums or being childish, rather they're quite calm and logical.

I was talking to a retired Japanese teacher today who said something interesting and relates to your attitude. Japanese tend to lack independent thought so blindly follow the crowd as "us Japanese" without examining the issue independently, no matter what the issue. She mentioned a Japanese expression, "If we walk across the street together when it is red we won't be hit". I think that sums the attitude many Japanese have about any criticism from outside nicely - ignore the traffic coming at us and walk blindly through holding hands.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

tinawatanabe:

" And another wrong thing you're doing is you demand Japan to ignore Japan's view "

Are you sure that the Taiji dolphin killiers really represent "Japan`s view"? How many Japanese people do you actually know who buy and eat dolphin meat? Personally, I have not met any.

I agree that there is often a kneejerk reaction by Japanese to close ranks with others and defend "Japan" against criticism from abroad, and I also agree that some of the criticism is over the top (just read the outrageous comments on Youtube for the "Cove" film. But really, about the issue itself, I think you will find that the vast majority of Japanese have no particular interest in dolphin hunting, not to mention consumption.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

igloobuyer - I was talking to a retired Japanese teacher today who said something interesting and relates to your attitude. Japanese tend to lack independent thought so blindly follow the crowd as "us Japanese" without examining the issue independently, no matter what the issue.

Since you infer that Japanese tend to lack independent thought, it sounds as if you've decided that your opinion should replace Japanese opinion. Are you hoping that the Japanese will blindly follow your opinion without examining the issues independently?

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Dolphins play an integral if little understood role in the health and stability of the oceans's ecology

Which is it: Integral, or little understood?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Big brave honourable men??? I think not. These people are cowards.

Please if you are against what they are doing, speak out against them.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

The same dolphin killing is carried out in the Faroese islands every year (the "grind"). It is internationally criticized in the same way, and defended largely by the same arguments. However, the Faroese dolphin killers do not hide in hidden little coves and under blue sheets, and they don´t claim to do research or any such nonense. Unlike the people in Taiji, they conduct the bloodbath in the open, and openly defend it. So, while I wish both would stop it, I somehow have more respect for the Faroese. At least we can communicate with them directly and openly, without a stupid cat-and-mouse game.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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