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COVID vaccination requests at work pose worry in Japan's booster push

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"If someone within the company becomes infected, it will create extra work for us, which will lead to a loss," the email read.

It's all about profit, never about employee welfare. If they could e-mail that no one shouldn't take maternal and paternal leave since it will make company less profit they'll do it.

37 ( +41 / -4 )

No one can force inoculation against there will. That’s infringement. Should be punishable by law. Vaccine doesn’t prevent spreading of the virus. Only helps to reduce severity of the symptoms.

9 ( +42 / -33 )

To get around this I would send out emails stating starting new recruiting program for vaccinated people. If you know of a person who is vaccinated and are looking for work. inform them that the company is recruiting. Simple, those non vaccinated will assume the recruitment is to replace the non vaccinated. This will prompt the non vaccinated to get vaccinated or to ask the boss. Those asking the boss have shown their hand that they are not vaccinated and the boss can tell them, mate work has slowed up so, I going ask you to take your annual holidays until thing pick up. There is many ways to manage workers without force and without braking the law.

-23 ( +11 / -34 )

My company schedule the third booster for end of february.

Almost all the employes took the first 2 shots last summer.

But because of the current situation world wide, ...more and more positive cases and hospitalizations among the vaccinated people appears every day, the side effects that can happen after taking the vaccine, then also vaccinated people spread the virus and so on...more and more people at my company want to refuse the third dose.

Because of the current situation world wide, many of our employees lost the trust in the efficiency and sense of the vaccine.

But I guess, beginning of next week, 2 doctors will come to our company and give some information and a Q+A event about the vaccine.

Let's see what happen after that event.

16 ( +31 / -15 )

@Monty “more and more positive cases and hospitalizations among the vaccinated people”. Hell absolutely no. Considering the percentage of population vaccinated and not, vaccinated people are extremely rare in hospitals compared to non vaccinated, and death rates incomparable. But obviously in absolute numbers there are countries in which non vaccinated in hospitals are ‘just’ double of vaccinated (for instance 20,000 non vaccinated vs 10,000 vaccinated). But: if 80% of the population is vaccinated, that means - for instance in France that published recently full statistics about this - that vaccinated people in hospitals represent only the 0.01% of the vaccinated population, while non vaccinated in hospitals represent 0.1% of the non vaccinated population, ten times more! If you don’t think that reducing the hospitalizations from a potential 100,000 cases to 10,000 thanks to vaccines is worth the shot, and you are happy to have ten times more chances to end up in hospital if positive, then I don’t know what to say.

-9 ( +17 / -26 )

There is a touch of irony here.

On my return to Japan I produced a government form (in English ) showing double vaccination status but was told that it had absolutely no bearing on my quarantine period whatsoever.

So, being vaccinated (for travel to Japan) had absolutely no benefit.

The Japanese government obviously sees no benefit in vaccinations preventing transmission then.

Now, there are massive continuing infections amongst the vaccinated which is troubling.

Well, Omicron looks to be the end of the mutations so I won’t be taking any more ‘shots’…

8 ( +26 / -18 )

Oxycodin

Today 07:04 am JST

No one can force inoculation against there will. That’s infringement. Should be punishable by law. Vaccine doesn’t prevent spreading of the virus. Only helps to reduce severity of the symptoms.

Vaccines don't just make you less ill, they lower the possibility of catching it, even Omicron.

But, crucially, since it makes people less ill, it reduces the viral load, making it less likely to contaminate others.

Why can't you people understand this simple logic?
1 ( +27 / -26 )

No one can force inoculation against there will. That’s infringement. Should be punishable by law. Vaccine doesn’t prevent spreading of the virus. Only helps to reduce severity of the symptoms.

No one CAN force inoculations, not even the example in the articles, also, vaccines DO reduce the spreading of the virus according to the best avaiable science, helpint to reduce rates of infection, symptoms, complications and deaths are other benefits that do not come "instead" of the reduction of spreading.

-10 ( +19 / -29 )

Yes, it offers immunity

post-Omicron source please.

I’m very pro-vax (because I don’t want a serious case) but any immunity from actual infection seems tiny at best....or it wouldn’t be spreading like wildfire even in heavily vaxxed places.

15 ( +21 / -6 )

With more and more fully vaccinated people getting infected every day, it’s now obvious that the existing vaccines don’t work. Forcing employees to get vaccinated against their will is a crime. The government should do something to protect people from vaccine fascists.

5 ( +24 / -19 )

In a serious country the medical record is confidential ... Why does your boss have to know if you are vaccinated or have a type of disease? It was a fatal mistake to let companies directly vaccinate employees, now they have medical data of their employees to press them.

23 ( +27 / -4 )

Here cones the bullying and invasion of privacy.

It is against the Nuremberg Code to threaten, coerce, and deny and/or withhold freedoms and rights to those declining ‘medical’ treatment.

If Japan Inc wants to start imposing their will, under the guise that having your own will to choose is selfish, it is a push too far.

It is unconstitutional, and there will be lawsuits. No one should be bullied by a company to comply, period.

21 ( +30 / -9 )

As the poster above notes, the vaccines don't really offer any protection against infection, that's why countries with high vaccination rates like Malta, Singapore and Iceland still have a problem. Therefore it doesn't make any sense to force people to use a product that has proven it isn't very good in the real world. Go look at ourworldindata.org and compare African countries to Europe if you want a laugh.

You can scream "EXPERTS SAY!" all you want but the evidence isn't there...

11 ( +25 / -14 )

Vaccines don't just make you less ill, they lower the possibility of catching it, even Omicron.

The Japanese government doesn’t agree with you I am afraid to say.

If they did then quarantine periods would be less for vaccinated individuals.

A healthy immune system and vitamin supplementation have done more to shield me against the corona virus as any vaccine.

5 ( +20 / -15 )

Oxycodin 07:04 am JST

Vaccine doesn’t prevent spreading of the virus. 

Correct, but people who are vaccinated for SARS-CoV-2 but get breakthrough infections are “more likely somewhat less infectious to others than unvaccinated people who are infected,” according to the CDC.

-6 ( +8 / -14 )

What about facts?

https://m.facebook.com/EuropeanCommission/photos/a.169236379790517/4663050740409036/

It’s sad that companies and their greed will become the leading input for vaccination (and for reopening the borders) instead of science, but that vaccines limit hospitalizations and deaths is a hard fact, including in countries like Iceland and Singapore that are often quoted as proving vaccines don’t work: if thousands people get the virus but are asymptomatic or with light symptoms instead of hospitalized or dead, can it be that vaccination works? Iceland reported an average 1,281 cases per day in January, enormous for its population, and an average daily deaths of…zero. Zero. There is your proof that it works.

-7 ( +7 / -14 )

Where does the pressure to get tested fall under? Can it be considered harassment too? I walked in at my workplace the other day after a short winter break, and there was a Rapid Covid-19 testing Kit on my desk. I had to take it since my other JP co-workers were scrambling to take it.

pressure!
6 ( +10 / -4 )

Or it could also mean that the Omicron strain is not as virulent as previous strains?

8 ( +10 / -2 )

vaccines DO reduce the spreading of the virus 

about up to how many percentage?

1%, 2%...

If an unvaccinated person spread the virus 100% and a vaccinated person spread the person 99% or 98% doesn't make a big difference to me.

So how many percentage?

5 ( +13 / -8 )

I started a new job and thought I would be questioned on my vaccination status. In fact, not at all.

Vaccine does not prevent transmission and spreading of covid since Omicron. It has been clearly confirmed by now. Companies can not impose any vaccine to their employees but they urge or strongly recommend.

10 ( +15 / -5 )

It is against the Nuremberg Code to threaten, coerce, and deny and/or withhold freedoms and rights to those declining ‘medical’ treatment.

No, it is not, this is the problem with people that want to misrepresent things thinking nobody knows what actual sources say. Just by using the Nurenberg code (that have nothing to do with medical treatment) you evidence lack of actual information about actual ethical basis of informed consent.

There is nothing unethical with measures aimed to avoid the increase of risk for others from what a person decides, it is the same fundament of refusing to let people smoke in public places, nobody is "forcing" those people to stop smoking, just limit their freedoms in order to avoid negative effects on other people, this can be a well justified measure.

Vaccine does not prevent transmission and spreading of covid since Omicron

Nothing "prevents" perfectly transmission and spreading of any infectious diseases, but that is fine because that is not the fundament for vaccine requirements, the fundament iis that vaccines reduce both things, and that is still true.

about up to how many percentage?

1%, 2%...

Present the data that let you give this stamenent, obviously you are not going to just say it is just something you came up from thin air, right? Someone saying the reduction is of 500% would be as right as you, so the average of two arbitrary numbers would be the correct answer?

-12 ( +8 / -20 )

'Virusrex

You again ignored and refused to answer my simple question.

You said, Vaccine DO prevent the spread of the Virus.

So my simple question is how many percentage?

Simple and easy. How many percentage?

Is it 80% or more, or is it just 1% or 2%...I don't know (yes my 1%, 2% just came out of thin year as an example), but it seems that you know the correct percentage, so please answer.

And show me some evidence of the scientific data you mentioned that proves that.

8 ( +17 / -9 )

Some people don't seem to understand the difference between being infected and being on a ventilator. As it has been shown repeatedly that most vaccinated that are infected do not show any symptoms unlike the unvaccinated that are on ventilators...

-3 ( +7 / -10 )

Oxycodin....

Vaccine doesn’t prevent spreading of the virus. Only helps to reduce severity of the symptoms.

You can only spread the virus if you have it. The vaccine makes it less likely that you will get infected.

-4 ( +6 / -10 )

"It could be considered harassment if someone was urged (to get vaccinated) with pressure or persuaded based on inaccurate information," she said.

No, this would clearly be in violation of Article 223 (強要罪, Extortion) or its subsection 3 (未遂, Attempt). Both being punishable with up to 3 years imprisonment.

A woman at a Tokyo-based company said that she received an email from the company's president calling for getting vaccinated to prevent the virus from spreading in the workplace.

"If someone within the company becomes infected, it will create extra work for us, which will lead to a loss," the email read. "No one has valid medical reasons for not receiving shots in this company."

This by itself does not constitute a crime. Asking for the vaccination status, however, can be considered harassment.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Simple and easy. How many percentage?

Sorry but there are huge amount of sources that deal with this, googling presents dozens of primary reports about it, so it is very strange for people to honestly ask something that can be answered in literally seconds.

For example

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.10.14.21264959v1

Is a report from a group that already did a good study previously actualized to Delta, as is obvious the reduction is not 1-2% as you assumed.

-4 ( +8 / -12 )

According that article it varies from 40% to 73% which is basically very good and much more than I expected.

Thanks for your answer and the link.

11 ( +13 / -2 )

Nicely done article to let you think you have to take a jab.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

"If someone within the company becomes infected, it will create extra work for us, which will lead to a loss," the email read.

This perfectly sums up just how much the average Japanese company cares about the mental, emotional, and physical wellbeing of its employees....none. It's all about making a buck, employees' health be damned.

Also, while they're lamenting about how Japanese companies aren't dishing out ultimatums on getting vaccinated, these "requests" are enough pressure for the employees to feel the heat in a conformist society and culture.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

What about ignoring the requests or emails? This is not France, America or any of the tyrannies of the west. At my company I don't ask nor I care about my employees vaccination status, we are here to work not to play doctor.

8 ( +12 / -4 )

1.3 Million cases reported yesterday in the US. Some say that half the people in Europe will have Omicron in a couple weeks. Fauci says that Omicron will find almost everybody. Japan report 6239 new cases on Tuesday…

I’ve been wrong about every wave so far. I computed R factor and projected much worse. I really can’t understand how Japan is dodging this bullet? Since Japan is not testing nor contact tracing to any extent, it is safe to assume that Covid is somewhere between 10-100x the reported numbers. Rationing of tests and hospital beds keeps the apparent numbers down. Where are all the dead people? It has been stated that there are no excess deaths due to all causes. None. Is that still true?

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/us-reports-least-11-mln-covid-cases-day-shattering-global-record-2022-01-11/

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/01/11/health/us-coronavirus-tuesday/index.html

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-59948920

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Coercion , repression and conformity usually go hand in hand with the Japanese group mindset, it’s so prevalent it’s almost invisible. Not surprising the workplace is the battleground for this issue.

Japan has been very good to avoid the dangerous path of official mandates until now. At first I just thought it was just your run of the mill indecisiveness, but it has clearly worked in their favor. The biggest and tragic mistake we’ve seen overseas has been these mandates which has only served to create a hard core group of resistors that will unfortunately now never even consider getting vaxed up, no matter what. You can label them deplorables, whatever you like, but it is the product of governments not respecting individual sovereignty. It should have been obvious it was gunna backfire. People not under duress or pressure may come around eventually once more studies and data come out proving the safety and efficacy of the vaccines. The route we are seeing in many of our home countries is just a recipe for more chaos. As much as we want people to get the vaccine there can and should be no coercion.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

With all this bureaucratic waffling and foot-dragging, it's probably too late. Sigh.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Where are all the dead people? It has been stated that there are no excess deaths due to all causes. None. Is that still true?

Yes, the total number of deaths have declined in the past few years.

Here are the official statistical data for Japan.

https://www.mhlw.go.jp/toukei/saikin/hw/jinkou/suii09/soran2-1.html

6 ( +6 / -0 )

At the moment, getting a vaccine trains the immune system to detect the original SARS-Cov2 virus, not the Omicron variant. However (according to Pfizer), you need 3 jabs to have some protection against Omicron. So basically you are being asked to get 3 jabs to protect yourself from a mild variant that you can still transmit to other people regardless of the vaccine dosage. That is absolute madness.

However, if you do contract Omicron, your body will have the antibodies to fight other SARS-Cov2 variants for long term, probably decades. While if you don't contract Omicron, you will have to keep getting endless jabs for decades.

2 ( +7 / -5 )

Monty Today  09:12 am JST

According that article it varies from 40% to 73% which is basically very good and much more than I expected.

That study is for the Delta variant. We are in Omicron variant now. There are new variants popping up all the time like Deltacron. The original vaccine was designed for Alpha from January 2020, and as each successive generation of variant goes further away from Alpha the faster the vaccine becomes less effective, and the less effective it is from the initial outset. The Pfizer CEO said this week they are working on an updated version right now.

The effectiveness cited in the research is correct for that specific window of time. However, if you plan on living longer than the limited parameters of the study, the effectiveness would eventually drop to 0%. A statistical effectiveness of 0% is not considered important because this number only reflects the likelihood of catching the virus relative to the unvaccinated. It still provides nominal protection against hospitalization and death because the virus itself is rarely lethal.

When this cycle of fluctuating immunity completes itself, the vaccine companies suggest you get another booster to top-up your immunity like a prepaid phone card. This is because without doing so, the vaccinated enter a statistical territory known as negative efficacy, when the vaccinated are more likely to test positive for the virus than the unvaccinated. This has already happened in numerous countries such as Germany and the UK.

Page 5 of this paper from Denmark shows negative efficacy for Omicron being reached in 90 days, while still showing some resistance to Delta. The consequences of repeated boosting is still unknown.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.12.20.21267966v3.full.pdf

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Never acquiesce to question authority and understand your rights. It's a power grab.

7 ( +9 / -2 )

Is it purely coincidental that infection rates dropped dramatically from around 5,000 per day to 10s per day one vaccination started? It seems there are still many who believe that vaccination had nothing to do with this. Demanding vaccination to attend the workplace seems much more valid than demanding people wear a suit and tie or subject to some other dress code to attend the workplace.

-8 ( +3 / -11 )

cracaphat.....

A couple of my female students,a bank teller and a desk worker didn't get the shots.They have no pressure to either.Their companies said they'd like staff to,but not make it a must.And the numbers don't lie.

Mrs Kipling is the Dept. head of a fairly large medical institution. Any applications for vacancies for April from the un-vaccinated are being rejected. The numbers don't lie.

-5 ( +5 / -10 )

Booster hasn’t even started but Government is already blaming the people. Souns right.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

My company schedule the third booster for end of february.

Almost all the employes took the first 2 shots last summer.

But because of the current situation world wide, ...more and more positive cases and hospitalizations among the vaccinated people appears every day, the side effects that can happen after taking the vaccine, then also vaccinated people spread the virus and so on...more and more people at my company want to refuse the third dose.

We had many here during the original vaccination period making claims that at their work a large percentage refused to be vaccinated.

But then the facts come out that 80% of the population got vaccinated.

We here claims of some mysterious mass side effects, but no hospitals are reporting such a thing.

Then we again here home the vaccines are not effective.

But we find out in other countries where omicron has spread that 80% of those in hospital and over 75% of those that die are unvaccinated.

https://health-infobase.canada.ca/covid-19/epidemiological-summary-covid-19-cases.html#a9

And the above stats are being repeated in most western countries and we will see the same here in Japan, but because the Japanese for the majority (80%) have had both shots we may not see the surge in hospitalisation like in the west.

Conclusion, people get vaccinated if you haven't yet.

-2 ( +7 / -9 )

Guess what?

Nothing is conclusive,is it?

Pfizer and Moderna?

Those companies are suggesting that you will need a vaccine as infinitum!

However,

what about the vaccine that ever gets mentioned these days?

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-creates-immunity-for-life-scientist-claims/ar-AASbVec

No more playing the lab rat for me…

6 ( +13 / -7 )

It's all about profit, never about employee welfare

Wrong. It's about Profit and Employee welfare.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Japan loves the old"_____hara".

Not everything is harrassment........maybe you should stand up for yourselves on ACTUAL workers rights that are being infringed....hellllllooooo crazy overtime

0 ( +3 / -3 )

We have a 98% vaccinated rate in my office based on voluntary anonymous survey. I am one of those. However, based the science of Omicron our office is no safer than one that has 0% vaccinated rate. Even boosters wont change that. You don't have to like it but you do have to admit it. Boosters are not needed for most but should be optional if people want them.

The good news is that this latest variant is lighter than the flu. Protect the vulnerable and let everyone else get it so we can build herd immunity.

4 ( +9 / -5 )

Antiquesaving Today  10:50 am JST

We here claims of some mysterious mass side effects, but no hospitals are reporting such a thing.

Nov. 22, 2021  11:08 am JST

Ok Haven't posted much lately, why? Because 2 weeks ago my family hereditary Russian roulette caught up with me and a suffered a massive heart attack!

Seriously? What are you trying to say here? I'm not saying they're related but you must have at least run the possibility through your mind.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

@blastcaptain

There are new variants popping up all the time like Deltacron.

What is Deltacron?

A mixture from Delta and Omicron?

1 ( +4 / -3 )

one simple question.

who will take resposnibility for side issues caused by vaccination or if will result in death?

company?

government?

how about if side effect will cause inability to work?

who will pay living expenses of survivor with serious health issues?

if you say bright side of story do mention other side "of moon" as well!

0 ( +8 / -8 )

the drug companies have "immunity" from being held accountable for any medical issues from the side effects of the vaccine. Im sure any company would just say they didnt "force" you to take it (even when they did).

that should tell you something.

6 ( +14 / -8 )

No, it is not, this is the problem with people that want to misrepresent things thinking nobody knows what actual sources say. Just by using the Nurenberg code (that have nothing to do with medical treatment) you evidence lack of actual information about actual ethical basis of informed consent.

There IS no informed consent, on an experimental medical vaccine/ treatment.

Do you think all the young healthy athletes, who were offered the choice to take a jab or quit sports, were informed they might be dropping on pitches, or all the victims of myocarditis, (which was not even mentioned as a possible side effect, until after it started occurring) or those who had heart attacks or strokes, pregnancy loss, infertility, and the long list of other side effects associated with this jab, were explicitly made known?

Or, all the ingredients, in these jabs, well known and the implications understood?

The insert paper is blank.

Or, your doctor, who may or may not be funded by a pharmaceutical company,

would give this explicit information?

A person cannot give consent, until they are properly informed,

7 ( +11 / -4 )

Sometimes public officials have reasons behind mandates, social restrictions and “appeals” to action that are not about the individual, but about infrastructure as a whole.

Overwhelming the healthcare system is one.

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

However, if you do contract Omicron, your body will have the antibodies to fight other SARS-Cov2 variants for long term, probably decades. 

There is exactly zero evidence that points to this, on the contrary, the relatively mild infection would indicate the opposite, limited cross neutralization couples with mild stimulation of the immune system would mean Omicron infection would produce immunity that is less effective and shorter than the vaccines against other variants.

That study is for the Delta variant. We are in Omicron variant now.

Obviously studies about transmission can't be obtained instantly, but having a very close reference is much better than just picking up a random number and believe that must be the degree of reduction.

When this cycle of fluctuating immunity completes itself, the vaccine companies suggest you get another booster to top-up your immunity like a prepaid phone card. 

That is irrelevant, the important thing is what the experts recommend, at this moment people with special vulnerabilities should get a booster to decrease the risk from the infection (including Omicron) replacing this with nothing is not a solution, it is just letting those people get the full range of complications for no benefit.

The same applies to exaggerating the important of prevention of infection, because the vaccines (as in general) value is in decreasing disease, and most importantly serious disease and death. Preventing infection is an artificial parameter that antivaccination groups want to promote to make a false comparison with previous vaccines (that are also unable to efficiently prevent infection during outbreaks, but prevent the serious form of the disease).

the drug companies have "immunity" from being held accountable for any medical issues from the side effects of the vaccine.

No, that is still completely false, the only "immunity" they get is from being sued from particular from the expected infrequent side effects, and that is because the govermnet takes that responsibility to make the medical intervention easier to get without companies being swamped out of producing vaccines and into making money from people that lose lawsuits.

Deficient vaccines? contaminated? effects hidden during trials? everything else apart from the expected side effects are still inside of the liabilities of the companies, why else would the government be testing every lot of vaccine for safety and efficacy?

There IS no informed consent, on an experimental medical vaccine/ treatment.

Yes there is, how do you think people participate on those? by surprise?

And no, people being vaccinated with vaccines with full approval or even EUA are not included in any experiment, they are being vaccinated for the effects of the vaccine protecting them,

Making an appeal to a debunked conspiracy theory makes your point even weaker, where is the epidemiological analysis that shows there is an excess of expected cases? or that is specifically related to vaccines? you have neigher? well, that means you have no argument.

-12 ( +3 / -15 )

Would like to believe your current claims @Jexan 11:21am but little-to-nothing with which to compare. Where is your comments history?

@Jexan 11:21 am: “We have a 98% vaccinated rate in my office based on voluntary anonymous survey. I am one of those. However, based the science of Omicron our office is no safer than one that has 0% vaccinated rate.

Even boosters wont change that. You don't have to like it but you do have to admit it. Boosters are not needed for most but should be optional if people want them. 

The good news is that this latest variant is lighter than the flu. Protect the vulnerable and let everyone else get it so we can build herd immunity.” -

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

We have a 98% vaccinated rate in my office based on voluntary anonymous survey. I am one of those. However, based the science of Omicron our office is no safer than one that has 0% vaccinated rate. Even boosters wont change that. 

That is incorrect.

https://health-infobase.canada.ca/covid-19/epidemiological-summary-covid-19-cases.html#a9

It is quite clear 80% of those in hospital and 76% of those that died in Canada were unvaccinated.

Similar stats are now coming out in the rest of the developed world.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

blastcaptainToday  11:24 am JST

Antiquesaving Today  10:50 am JST

We here claims of some mysterious mass side effects, but no hospitals are reporting such a thing.

Nov. 22, 2021  11:08 am JST

Ok Haven't posted much lately, why? Because 2 weeks ago my family hereditary Russian roulette caught up with me and a suffered a massive heart attack!

Seriously? What are you trying to say here? I'm not saying they're related but you must have at least run the possibility through your mind.

What part of "hereditary" did you not understand?

No link to the vaccine, both my male siblings father, uncle, had the same thing all before covid or the vaccine.

Another example of people trying to link unrelated things, I was born with a coronary artery defect as we're most of the males in my family nothing to do with covid or the vaccine.

This is how rumours and false information gets started.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

In countries with high vaccination rate, hospitalizations of vaccinated people are overtaking unvaccinated ones. This is just a number game so it’s nothing special and no need to panic. (There are a lot more vaccinated people than unvaccinated people)

Finland is reporting

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Is reporting under 30% efficiency against infection vs Omicron after just 2 months. You cannot keep jabbing the whole population every few months, it is not sustainable.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

 Getting infected with an actual virus will. This is Immunology 101.

If you survive lol.

So far 5.5 million have total immunity from covid, number of dead so far from getting infected with an actual virus

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

Everybody should definitely get vaccinated to prevent serious illness but vaccines do not prevent spreading of covid Omicron variant.

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

It is quite clear 80% of those in hospital and 76% of those that died in Canada were unvaccinated.

The data is cumulative. They're counting all the deaths in 2020 and early 2021 when no vaccine was even available under the unvaccinated column.

The unvaccinated dataset therefor contains 21 months of data while the vaccinated column only contains about 6 months of data.

It's statistical trickery and they did it intentionally hoping we wouldn't catch it.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

Imagine a scenario where all resources were spent on a vaccine, and if everyone doesn't take it, and pay for it, there won't be a way to make the next vaccine.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Vaccines don't just make you less ill, they lower the possibility of catching it, even Omicron.

But, crucially, since it makes people less ill, it reduces the viral load, making it less likely to contaminate others.

Vaccines mainly provide a few months of protection against severe symptoms, they have a very small effect on getting infected. And no, they do not reduce the viral load; there are even reports that vaccinated people will have a greater viral load.

Is reporting under 30% efficiency against infection vs Omicron after just 2 months. You cannot keep jabbing the whole population every few months, it is not sustainable

Oh, I'm sure they'll find an excuse to keep on jabbing.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

I dislike any thing medical. That where have other occupation. But judging by 99% of the comments they must be doctors specialising In viruses. If your not a doctor can you say that first then comment. So are any of the comments Doctors????? Or just weekend hacks who are repeating propaganda.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

According to the latest information from the WHO, the covid pandemic will be declared an endemic. Also according to the WHO, vaccination with booster doses is an unacceptable long term strategy. Hallelujah.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

No one can force inoculation against there will. That’s infringement. Should be punishable by law. Vaccine doesn’t prevent spreading of the virus. Only helps to reduce severity of the symptoms.

Or it may do so.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Vaccines mainly provide a few months of protection against severe symptoms

The same could be said about infection, except with the full risks of COVID, in reality vaccines provide protection for most of the population up until now against serious disease and death, even against Delta and Omicron.

And no, they do not reduce the viral load; there are even reports that vaccinated people will have a greater viral load.

Yes they do, comparing only the heavily symptomatic patients between vaccinated and unvaccinated people as if they were the same proportion is obviously a flawed comparison, the simple fact that vaccinated people are infected less, and become symptomatic less than unvaccinated people is enough to prove vaccination lower the viral loads in general, which explain why vaccinated people transmit the disease less.

No one can force inoculation against there will. That’s infringement

In the same way nobody can force anybody to be sober, or to stop smoking. That has nothing to do with putting forward measures that limit the damage done to other people from those personal decisions,

Vaccine doesn’t prevent spreading of the virus. Only helps to reduce severity of the symptoms.

the vaccine reduce the spreading of the virus, as indicated by many different studies (including refeences here in the comments).

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