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Internet misinformation fans COVID vaccine hesitancy among Japanese young peopleBy Ami Takahashi TOKYO
©2023 GPlusMedia Inc.
It sadly seems to be there's quite a number of stupid and wreckless people in Japan just as much as in America.
November? I thought the whole thing was supposed to be done and dusted by September? Hard to keep up
What source ever gave you the impression that everyone desiring the COVID-19 vaccine would get it by September? Please provide a link.
Misinformation does not only apply to the young. An elder man in my building was using the common areas (mailbox, elevator) unmasked and I mentioned that he should be wearing a mask whereupon he replied "I've already received the vaccine twice." When I told him he could still be carrying the virus and could pass it off it others in the building who are still vulnerable, he gave me an incredulous look. I think Japanese see full stadiums in ie. the US and think the situation is the same in Japan. Am I wrong to ask him to keep wearing the mask as a courtesy to others?
If govts & media were more transparent & forthcoming in the initial stages of crises, then perhaps ALL people, regardless of age, would be more trustful and involved in sharing important information.
And then, the personal anecdotes are added to the mix and reliability of information disintegrates:“I have a friend who…
@klutzman - no, you are not wrong. A lot of people still think the main purpose of a mask is to protect themselves. He seems to be one of those types.
I think they just don't care. Perhaps provide some incentives, as they did in the US. Comprehensive vaccination is in all of our interests
blue in green
The golden nugget of truth.
@klutzman No you're not wrong. Vaccination doesn't stop someone getting the virus and passing it on to others. Good on you for educating him.
As for side effects I sure hope I get some (mild ones) as that shows my body is doing what it should and gearing up to the fight what it thinks is the 'real' virus. So yeah bring on some side effects as that's how vaccinations work.
blue in green
Young people have a very healthy immune system, this vaccine is not for them, and should not be offered.
The fact that people take the initiative to research outside of blindly trusting ‘questionable science’ is commendable.
Your body belongs to you.
Vax hesitancy is not yet the top issue in Japan. Quite many of various age groups are still eager, some desperate to get a jab or two ideally sooner while the rollout seems slow and clumsy, unable to respond timely to their request.
Be practical, and put priority to someone in urgent need. And then make "first come, first served" arrangements. Teens rarely sicken worse without vaccination.
Who cares anymore !
It seems the only solution is for citizens of the world to give their complete faith and loyalty over to their respective governments. The governments can be the sole arbiters of what’s true and what’re lies. They can alleviate the stress of trying to parse the mess ourselves. Life will be a lot easier. Governments can even establish new cabinets to specifically deal with this; they can call it the ministry of truth. And when wacky conservatives get out of line, refer them to the ministry of love.
This entire premise of this article is that there is a dangerous spread of misinformation causing younger generations to question the vaccines.
But just look at the research data they use to support this claim:
Just to break down this doublethink:
-age over 65: 80.6% plan for vaccination, therefore 19.4% are not considering vaccination.
-age 19-29: 17.5% are not planning vaccination, therefore 82.5% do at least allow for for vaccination.
Really? And this article grumbles about "misinformation"? Their own data suggests anti-vaccination is more of an over-65 issue, but they blatantly misinform us about that.
Question: if it is perfectly safe for "young people", then why is no country on earth allowing kids under 12 to get it (but its magically OK if the kid is 13)?
Answer: Because they don't know if it is actually safe for kids.
I dare not spell them out, but a number of Japanese mainstream media outlets have already taken the critical position on vaccination by propagating via own media channels somewhat biased, fearmongering stories. Very ironically, it is exactly the same outlets whose backyards there were "in-house" rollout covering all their staff members and close neighbors/regular visitors. Hypocrisy is as harmful as ignorance.
Perhaps if the government and especially Taro Kono did his job, and the vaccine was available, then more young people would get the jab and we wouldn't have these worries. But the longer this plays out, crackpot theories will emerge and foolish, easily tricked people will believe whatever they read and will refuse to get the shot, putting us all at rick of more variants!
And 45.9M% claim they will only be vaccinated "if it's compulsory". And it's not. That's a big issue.
There are alot of unknowns about the long term health effects of these new experimental vaccines.
Also people are naturally wary of injecting themselves and their kids with a vaccine made by companies with a dubious safety record and in Moderna's case no history of making any vaccines in it's short 10 yr history.
This vaccine should NOT be forced on people.
Encourage away if you must but coercing people is wrong.
The vaccines aren't "experimental". That is exactly the misinformation this article is about.
Having had both vaxes of AZ, I can confirm that I have had side effects that still persist.
The mRNA vaccines are an unknown in the same way that the actual corona virus affects people.
There are side effects and unknowns.
People should make informed choices…
Sorry, but this news is just plain stupid. It's like gaslighting.
I've been reading that the government wants to slow down vaccine bookings due to supply issues, yet we are reading about misinformation imperiling the government's efforts.
Which is irrelevant when the option is to have a well known and described risk of long term health effects by the infection. Unless you can prove the same risks for the vaccines the only rational conclusion is that they are much safer.
Also irrelevant, companies did not develop and tested the vaccines in secrecy but instead was the most open and observed process until now, with dozens of governments and international experts examining the raw data to corroborate the conclusions. No hint of a problem has ever been discovered, you don't need to trust any company, but the scientific community in general.
Nobody is coercing people to vaccinate, people can replace (in a limited way) some of the measures necessary for the pandemic with a vaccine, but they are free to keep obeying those measures if they do not want to vaccinate.
Kids in general are not a segment of the population prioritized for vaccination, so clinical trials for them were delayed and still being conducted, apart from safety and efficacy dosage is an added complication, the "one dose fits them all" approach works for adults but obviously not for children.
The vaccines are safe (as in much safer than the natural infection) for any population for whom it has been tested in clinical trials, with obvious medical exceptions.
Ordinary vaccines take about five to six years to be determined safe. But the new vaccines are around in the market after only a one-year period of testing. No doubt, there are many unknowns about Covid 19 vaccination.
So, there's room for wild speculation about it. Fearmongers take advantage of this fact and propagate unfounded rumors of it with impunity. I, for one, have been vaccinated twice already as recommended.
Young Japanese adults have access to rumors, conjecture, and medical studies. We all do. Whether they get the vaccine or not, it is their prerogative and their personal choice should be respected.
"Media propaganda furthers divide and conquer tactics". Fixed it for you. A genuine deadly pandemic doesn't require 24/7 advertising on the news to remind you it exists. It doesn't require endless propaganda. However, psyops do.
One of the reasons that the 1918 'flu' was so deadly for Americans was the misinformation spread by the Wilson administration for the same reasons our current parasites would force us into workplaces if they could. Masks were strongly disparaged until people began to ignore the government. For 'confusion' in America, these two headlines appeared on the same day a few days ago (13Jul):
"US Scientists Unconvinced COVID Booster Shots Are Needed Now"¹
"Delta Variant Infects 6 Vaccinated Guests at [TEXAS] Outdoor Wedding"²
One of the six people died.
Bet that if the world’s combined scientifically forces came up with a vaccine to guard against stupidity, a large number of people would refuse that too. “It said that side-effects involve rigorous thinking and the ability to discern false data from accurate data! That sounds dangerous!”
The the cowardice and lack of mental ability of the anti-vaxxer is astounding.
To be successful, Science has to supply results through testing, data and peer-review.
Efficacy has to be proved through scientific process.
After all that, they still have to convince people again.
All the anti-vaxxer has to do is plant a seed of mistrust using unproved arguments from Facebook groups.
We all know what they are because they repeat them on every forum across the internet. There are already several above.
The worst trick they use is to call people out for fearing the virus. The only fear I see is from the anti-vaxxers.
I understand many people are hesitant about a new medicine. The impact of the virus has reduced people's confidence in many things. To use that fear to push an agenda with more fear is simply abhorrent.
The anti-vaxxers are the true definition of cowards. Afraid of a minor risk to themselves, they endanger the lives of others.
Anti-vaxxers, take the white feather of cowardice. You deserve it.
What does this even mean?
The inoculations have only just begun. The vaccines are still on clinical trial and no one knows for certain what long-term effects the vaccines might cause. No wonder young people with more access to the internet and SNS have second thoughts about getting vaccinated.
Thank you sharing your vast understanding of matters.
I suppose censorship is the only protection for the weak minded.
But how does one shelter from the profoundly stupid?
It means the mass hysteria perpetuated by media and governments is the main problem here. People aren't dying in the streets. The virus is just simply, not that bad. Furthermore, if one out of every 10,000 covid cases dies, a whole country or major city/state area in the world can be locked down. Yet if someone dies from the experimental vaccine, they won't cancel the program. All of this is to impose control and take away your freedoms. People can't see through the BS. And what doesn't help is that they will slowly, more and more, turn the vaccinated zombies against the unvaccinated (more divide and conquer), all while giving you NONE of your freedom back. If anything, it will be short lived before the next variant comes along, the next booster shot comes along, ad nauseum.
This is an example of internet misinformation.
What has been scientifically proven is that mRNA components accumulate to high levels soon after injection. There have also been several reports of more severe or longer menstruations following vaccinations.
Only time will tell whether the vax can cause infertility.
Yes, much better title!
We are obviously not being honestly informed by gov. agencies and MSM, we only get constant vax advertisements.
A case in point . Quite amusing.
Please let me know why the ''vaccines'' contain magnetized nano particles and graphene oxides.
Do the Russian and Chinese vaccines contain the same ingredients?
Oh wow. You've already forgotten what the world looked like last year, didn't you? When the morgues were so full there were actual corpses on the street?
Sure. Tell it to the over 4 million dead people and their grieving families.
So first lockdowns take away our freedoms, and vaccination can end those lockdowns, so therefore...vaccination takes away our freedoms too? .....Yeah, makes sense.
Quite a few white feathers to be handed out in this forum today.
Wear them proudly in your tinfoil hats.
Japan's government had done nothing against misinformation about PCR test or Covid-19 itself.
Government themselves have been obsessed with skepticism to PCR test since last year.
Also they tried to conceal fact that asymptom patients exist last year.
"Vaccine minister" Kono had concealed about insufficient supply of vaccine since April.
Japan's government has many falsehood or deception.
The words you are using do not mean what you think they mean. That's what scientific illiteracy does to people.
A stupid and reckless comment, indeed.
Saddens me to see the stupidity of red states/counties in the USA seeping into Japanese society. 99.5% of covid deaths in the USA in June were unvaccinated. Cold, hard facts.
There are vaccines already fully approved on the market that were tested on clinical trials of the same length as the COVID vaccines, there is no requirement of years of testing to be able to use a vaccine, as long as it can prove to represent less risk than the infection is preventing this can be enough to get approval. This is part of the misinformation.
No confusion about them for anybody interested enough to read more than the headline, for example the death was preceded by a vaccine of limited efficacy, no evidence at this point would indicate a booster (of the same vaccine) would have improved his chances of surviving.
And what is the clinical importance of those longer menstruations? how do they compare with what is observed in for example common cold barely symptomatic infections? do you believe that the common cold causes infertility? This is a very good example of disinformation, exaggerating something observed commonly (as in a few cases between millions for many common situations from stress to changes in lifestyle) and trying to make it seem as if it was more important than what it actually is, or exclusively happening with vaccines.
Do any of the sources you mention contradict the consensus of science? because if not then what you consider dishonest is actually the best source of information available.
Not really not, the virus IS that bad, millions of deaths and more millions with long term physical problems prove it, if the media and governments are only repeating what the experts can prove then you saying the opposite simply doesn't hold the same weight.
The article is about the situation in Japan, you have not produced any source proving that the PMDA approved the vaccines as "experimental" yet.
The answers is terribly easy, they don't. Try to improve your sources, instagram post of nameless people are not really something worth believing.
In the first place, can young people get the vaccine?
in my 40s, I can’t
in my 40s, I can’t
Same. I can officially start applying next week by either applying to go to a mass vaccination center, or by going to a local clinic and trying to get lucky. But with Kono telling the wards to slow down the pace, I’m not optimistic.
Misinformation is anything the Party and it's proxies FB, Twitter and co deem to be so at a particular moment in time.
But it’s not misinformation, thousands have died from this vaccination…..
Yet the producers of the vaccines are completely indemnified from any prosecution, one must wonder what they are hiding.
Which of the examples in the article do you believe comes from the government and not from validated scientific data that proves them as misinformation?
No, that is false, misinformation from people that want to falsely represent the information available.
If deaths are not increased in vaccinated people when compared with unvaccinated people, that obviously mean the vaccines are not the cause, following for months millions of old people with many preconditions (vaccinated or not) is the reason why you can register thousands of deaths.
This is also completely false, if producers lie, or provide a product of inferior quality they can easily be prosecuted by the law without problems, why do you think vaccines are continuously tested by the government? precisely to make sure that everything is in order or else sales are suspended, permits revoked and depending on the problem important fines or criminal accusations that can land people on prison.
Some say those who received vaccinations will die within three years.
Yes, that misinformation is surely a very big problem, but the official denying of any or downplaying of often and obviously occurring side effects is not so much better. Just be a little more honest. For example say, while infertility effect or DNA changes are lies, things like strange menstruation problems may occur, or the second shot might have even stronger side effects than the first so be prepared, and so on. With more honesty the people also will be more willingly to get their (two) vaccinations.
Not a single human being is reading any thing coming out of Kono’s imagination. Who’s gonna listen to his dribble at this point?
That’s why so many young people are misinformed. You have moronic dinosaurs telling them a bunch of nonsense.
Hey just get a plasma-cluster air cleaner and all will be fine. That was the story on the news cycle yesterday.
If the media can throw that info out to the world, people can certainly question the motives of a vaccine. 99.9 percent of all people that have received a "jab" probably have no idea what just went into their body. it's called blind faith, yet the media spins it that if you cannot accept vaccines you're unaware, if you accept vaccines you are a good citizen and aware..It is the exact opposite.
Well, those people are dangerous morons.
Now that Trump's name has been dragged into the "discussion" I wonder how long it will be before this thread gets closed down?
Wow, the people can see into the future! Let's ask them when this pandemic will be over.
Why are ‘whatsbout-isms’ that taint questions of a localized issue NOT considered a form of “misinformation”? - They derail & detract from specific issues in ONE place.
An exaggerated analogy would be: “Not like those in Antarctica(?) where they were able to effectively control Covid amongst their entire population of 1106+ people by . . .”.
It is important that the 20s-50s age groups, those most affected by the virus, get vaccinated . . . . Here is an article about how the approved US vaccines have been effective against the variants,
In my opinion, everybody should decide by themselves to take the vaccine or not.
And everybody should take possible side effects and dangers coming from the vaccine into deep consideration.
To follow blindly what so called experts are telling us is completely stupid.
If they tell you, jump into the sumida river, that is the best vaccination you can get, will you do that?
I dont think so.
And saying, the vaccine is safe, and down playing side effects like menstruation problems (tell that to all women, who has already menstruation problems), is stupid and dangerous.
And saying the vaccine is safe, is a good example for spreading missinformation.
Nothing is safe. No vaccine, no medicine, no surgery is safe.
If so, there would not be a long side letter about side effects coming with all medicine you get, there would be no signature before surgery...and so on.
So everybody should consider deeply, if he or she takes the vaccine or not.
Me, I decided to take it.
I got my first shot already, and I will get my second shot in 2 weeks.
And everybody I know, here in Japan and in my home country, who got already the 2nd shot, had a very hard time after it for about 2-3 days.
But I know that, and I am OK with taking that.
Snowy said it well. So much misinformation and propaganda from people like Fauci have caused people to distrust anything from government.
Regardless, vaccinate the vulnerable and as many others that want it and open up.
Of course, but only if you are willing to put the time and effort necessary to interpret the evidence as well as they do, if you simply believe anything you read in facebook or repeatedly misunderstand reported information (reaching completely wrong conclusions on your own) then trusting the whole scientific consensus is still a much better option.
No, it is not, because vaccines do not have to be "perfectly" safe, nothing is, according to your simplistic approach nothing ever would be safe. In reality of course the vaccines are "safe" in the easily understood meaning that they are hugely safer than not vaccinating.
People of course can decide not to vaccinate, validly if for example have a medical reason (like allergies or other health problems that contraindicate vaccination). or invalidly by believing false information or reaching wrong conclusions (1 in a million chances of having problems? wow, that is more dangerous than the 1 in 1000 chances of dying of COVID!).
What people can't do is say their invalid reasons are logical or rational, because this is what helps spreading disinformation that can confuse or mislead other people that actually want to make a rational decision.
People love to repeat that, but when asked exactly what part of what he said was against the best science at the time inexplicably everybody becomes silent.
How would he know? That’s not the function of a pumper.
You often here the term “anti-vaxxer” thrown out in a derogatory fashion by the Covid cult. Why is that? And why does a cautionary position on an EUA experimental gene therapy warrant the labeling of “anti-Vaxxer”? Who made the the leap from assuming a EAU inoculation hesitant individual is an anti-vaxxer? The weak minded only.
This is not a traditional vaccine. It is an experimental gene therapy. There is no debate about it. Read the Pfizer and Moderna web sites if you have any doubt.
The act of endlessly bombarding the public with the virtues of an experimental medicine at the expense of open debate and informed right of choice is not a characteristic of proper public health policy. It is a forced agenda.
The Covid cult has no right to advise or recommend anything. It does not know , and it refuses to accept anything but the institutional guidance that has bounced from side to side since “flattening the curve” over 18 months ago.
If they remain so frightened of a mock emergency, a virus with very low mortality in a healthy population, and opposing opinion, they should take these vaccines and all the boosters they choose.
After all, what are they so afraid of? Aren’t they immune once inoculated? Or are they trying to save the world for the benefits of others (especially Big Pharma)?
I personally have no care on who gets these medicines as long as they are adults and can make their own decisions. However, I have a very serious concern over a mope cult trying to remove that same right from me.
Not to follow blindly what the so called experts are telling us is actually more stupid.
Probably there are only 100 true experts on the subject in the whole world and everyone is blindly following what they say.
The choice for us really comes to listen to what the governments are relaying or listen to what various mentals on SNS are saying.
In this particular case COVI19 and Japan and in my opinion everybody should shut up , listen to what the government experts are recommending and yes take the shots.
and the biggest purveyors of misinformation, Faux News. Don’t think most of them aren’t secretly vaccinated, like Dump and his wife, and most of the Repugnants. Sad that the people with the least credibility (politicians) are left to front the fight against mis/disinformation.
If you been in tokyo and seen the mobs of people going on about their lives. (Watch those youtube walking videos) A large portion of the population here is not concerned.
Fact: covid is now a preventable disease and 99% of deaths in the US are unvaccinated.
This debate is senseless. You get vaccinated or yolo. At this point, all you can do is lookout for yourself and loved ones.
I received my first of two injections this week. I am skeptical of the vaccine, still, however in my case I chose to get vaccinated. I have advised my son, due to the latest information about myocarditis, not to do so at this time until this is disposition.
I am not in favor of censorship nor am I in favor of forced vaccines.
I also voted for Biden. In the U.S. the White House is now reading and asking Facebook to remove posts which they consider (in their opinion) "disinformation". That is what was done in the old Union of Soviet Socialist Republics and Facebook as now rescinded their argument that the first amendement does not apply to them.
The direction all of this is going is very concerning to this old liberal.
Who are they? Who are you? What are you winning?
It all sounds very mysterious and exciting! Could we have an explanation, with diagrams and photographs please!
Try and get the facts straight. As they come in, and not as you assume.
And you're more than welcome to heed to your own advice.
No one is suggesting otherwise.
What is important to remember is all that all of the pharmaceutical companies got fast tracked to make a vaccine and did not go through the usual procedures that normally take two years. Also, have any of you read the disclaimer given out by the vaccine makers? I quote from the Moderna Vaccine info:”This vaccine’s effectiveness in preventing infection has not been determined at this time. You should take appropriate infection prevention measures regardless of whether or not you have received the vaccine.”
So even they do not know the effectiveness of this vaccine so this is not a conspiracy. It just needs more time and we all in our push for going back to normal have welcomed anything that can get us there!
All in all, I think each and every person should have the opportunity to decide by themselves if they want to take it or not.
Calling people who have dedicated at least 7 years to the study of a particular field, and then their whole adult lives to working in said field, "so-called experts" is extremely insulting in itself. The vast majority of epidemiologists really aren't in it for "the money", and questioning their expertise because of a few things you read on the internet is rather appalling.
This is exactly the type of misinformation that the article refers too. It’s hard to imagine some people actually believe these things and don’t bother to take the time to check. Do they always believe anything that appears in the net has to be true or it wouldn’t be there for them to read? smh
Just me thinking out loud...those that are reluctant in getting vaccinated because of fear of the side effects ever thought of the symptoms they might experience if infected with COVID-19? I was in the wait and see camp but decided to get vaccinated after weighing the pros and cons of getting vaccinated or not. Got my first shot two weeks ago and looking forward to my 2nd shot next week. The side effects were no more than what I experienced after getting an influenza shot, i.e., sore arm and a mild fever for a day or two.
LOL @DOC See. Its a useless debate. Do your thang.
The vaccines are still in emergency only list, they are not fully licensed almost anywhere including WHO. Why should young healthy people take it?
I have the feeling that you by yourself don't know what is correct and what not.
It seems that you are confused by yourself.
In an upper post you said, vaccines are safe, and now you say vaccines do not have to be "perfectly" safe, nothing is.
So what now?
Are vaccines safe or not?
Especially the Covid vaccines...
Yes or No?
Like you received my first shot this week. However I am also aware there are potential long term risks to the vaccines as well....the fact is they were developed very quickly and are still not FDA approved in the U.S. (only authorized for emergency use). It is a calculated risk which I took and everyone needs to make their own decision (not have it forced on them).
For those who choose not to get vaccinated I respect your decision not to. I chose differently for my own personal reasons.
”A fear of side effects” is not misinformed decisions. Ah the wonderful MSM, taking one of their talking points and twisting the info to support it. Boy some are so easily fooled.
My wife and I are STILL waiting to get an appointment for our first shot. The best I could do was to be put on a waiting list at my local doctor's office. This is ridiculous and mismanaged. I thought Japan was suppose to be efficient, but I guess hardly.
I answered, not said that he should know it should have been obvious this is mistaken information, but it is understandable from people that are not selective about their sources, a problem worth solving.
People repeating information they know it is false, just to misrepresent vaccines, or even making reference to studies already retracted for being horribly wrong, even if those studies were already discusses and proved retracted can validly be described as such, having a cautionary position is not being an antivaxxer, being irrational and trying to deceive others would be.
This is not a traditional vaccine. It is an experimental gene therapy.
No it is not, again you have not provided any proof that the PMDA considers it either experimental nor gene therapy, that is just misinformation. According to this mistaken approach every attenuated vaccine ever (including the first one!) would be "gene threapy" that is obviously nonsense. There is nothing wrong with discarding false, mistaken information, adding it to the conversation only pollutes it and helps in absolutely nothing.
Absolutely nothing in your arguments even point out to vaccines being forced on you, at all, you can always simply choose to use all the other measures to avoid spreading the infection and be in a higher risk of complications and death by not vaccinating.
Because vaccinated people are at a lower risk of problems and deaths, even if they are young and healthy.
Read again the comment, it is already written there. In reality of course the vaccines are "safe" in the easily understood meaning that they are hugely safer than not vaccinating.
Why don't you give a few examples of things you consider safe, and think for a couple of seconds if that means they are completely, absolutely, perfectly safe, without any possibility of anything bad happening. Because there is always that risk, the problem is that you are fine considering all those other things safe, but not the vaccine, because you have double standards.
By young you mean anyone below 65, right?
These are the 2 most used by our now former dentist.
The infertility one was boosted by a former VP of Pfizer. When I pointed out that this man had just sold the company he founded after leaving Pfizer to a Pfizer rival vaccine maker for cash and shares in their company and was not saying the same thing about his new partner company, the reply and gave here the news links and business links she replied:
"I can't understand English and it isn't on any Japanese site so I can't trust it"
When I informed her the biggest Japanese scientist the anti vaxxers use to back their claims has a vested interest in Ivermectin because he was one of the developers the reply was:
"He is still an expert and wouldn't lie"
Then right after that when told the other great Japanese expert the Japanese anti vaxxers use had now changed his mind after reviewing all the data and said not only is the vaccine safe but that he got his shots, her reply was:
" He was forced to by the government to say those things and get the vaccine"
Any and every excuse.
When the expert has a conflict of interest " they are professionals and wouldn't lie" when the expects change position based on science then it is " the are being forced to do so".
Anti vaxxers are impossible to reason with as they will always dismiss facts for conspiracy and twist anything to make themselves believe their unfounded fears are true.
I will give you one example of something safe and is completely, absouletly, and perfectly safe. The 2021 Olympics. You may ask why? The numerator in the calculation to perform risk quantificatoin is zero. Bach told me this.
On the other hand, the vaccines as we all know carry some level or risk. Not being vaccinated is also being proven to carry some level of risk.
We all must make our own personal decision based on this information and we should not be mandated to make this decision.
Side effects are real, a fear of them is normal, everybody is welcome to judge risk versus benefit and decide, just yesterday FDA added a new warning on J&J, at this time all new vaccines have already identified side effects, who can say today how many new warnings are going to be discovered in the next 2 or 3 years? It is exactly why vaccines need years and not months of pharmacovigilance. As a side note, a person not vaccinated DOES NOT EQUAL a sick one.
In an ironic twist in countries that the government and media did their job in countering the crazy anti vaxxers misinformation and explained correctly that having slightly reactions to the Vaccine mean that ones immune system is working well and doing its job.
Now they are dealing with people that had no reaction worried that the vaccine didn't take.
So now both the government and media are reassuring those vaccinated that not having any visible reaction is also perfectly fine and yes they are still protected.
Imagine if the Japanese government did its job properly and instead of having to worry about the false information by Anti vaxxers it only had to reassure people not having a reaction to the vaccine was perfectly normal as is having a reaction.
Well as of today, the fact is that the vaccines are not FDA approved. They are only approved for EUA (emergency use). So, the FDA has not really dug deep into the all the data from people who have taken the vaccines. I can see why people still have hesitancy about the vaccines.
hey are hugely safer than not vaccinating.
But that doesn't automacially means that vaccines are safe.
Because you don't clearly answer my question with Yes, shows me, that you also know that there are possible side effects, light or strong, short term or long term, which can come up with the vaccines.
Like I said, everyone should take that in consideration and should decide by themselves to take the vaccine or not.
Nobody should blame people for thinking carefully about possible side effects.
And nobody should blame people for refusing a vaccine, because they are worried or scared about possible side effects.
Ego Sum Lux Mundi
Bad news for the Jabbed Ones.
"According to Israel National News, more than 7.7K new cases of the virus have been detected during the most recent wave (beginning back in May). However, just 72 of the confirmed cases were reported in people who were known to have been previously infected - that is, less than 1% of the new cases.
Roughly 40% of new cases – involving more than 3K patients – were infected despite being fully vaccinated.
By this count, Israelis who had been vaccinated were 6.72x more likely to get infected after the shot than after natural infection, with more than 3K of the 5,193,499, or 0.0578%, of Israelis who were vaccinated getting infected in the latest wave. The disparity has confounded Health Ministry experts, with some saying the data proves the higher level of immunity provided by natural infection versus vaccination. However, others remain unconvinced."
This situation is not about misinformation or hesitancy. Most people in Japan cannot get the vaccine! Tell the truth!
Well the surge now underway in the USA is primarily due to unvaccinated and:
Facts over feelings!
In the last two years of covid I have not witnessed one single covid patient it hard to believe what you don’t see. Lucky here in Japan you can’t be forced inoculated against your will. The work around is fear mongering.but even that’s not enough to convince a abtivaxer
Into the trash it goes.
I have read what you stated and I am aware of the article you have presented. There are also other sources other than Zero Hedge reporting the same data.
You say this is bad news for the jabbed ones. I fully disagree with you as the article or data does not indicate it is bad news for a "jabbed one" (I am one of the "jabbed ones" by the way).
On the other hand if you agree with the article you and I would be in agreement in the fact that prior infection and natural immunity should not be ignored and it is likely better than the vaccine (as the data set suggests).
I am not sure I have had Covid (I had symptoms after returning from overseas in January 2020) and because I am not sure I chose to be a "jabbed one"
If you chose otherwise it is no issue for me as this is your decision to make and I wish you well.
Lucky you, I lost 3 family members back home to covid.
My friend lost he father here in Japan to covid, I know at least half a dozen that have or had covid hear in Japan including one that has been bin hospital for over a month now.
Have you ever seen a polio victim? No! So I guess we should stop vaccination of that also based on your criteria. What about tetanus ever seen someone with that? No!
So let's stop that vaccination also again based on your having never seen one!
The lack of logic is beyond comprehension.
Do you think medical professionals have ever seen one?
This is fascinating.
I received my first shot this week.
Since you do not trust Zero Hedge (I am making no comment as to whether I trust them or not as I do not read their articles that much - I did read this one), here is the source article.
I believe those with natural immunity should not be forced or encouraged to get vaccinated. Even some governments are allowing proven natural immunity to be used as a "health passport".
@Ego Sum Lux Mundi
Now how about real news.
No information at the moment contradicts the conclusion that vaccines are much safer than not vaccinating.
Blindly assuming COVID will not have more long or permanent problems (apart from those already identified) but vaccines using technologies used for many more years surely will is not rational, an unvaccinated person is at a higher risk of problems, even taking in account that it may not be infected.
This is fine, as I said before people can refuse by logical, rational reasons or just by irrational fears, anybody can choose, what is the problem (and is related to the article) is when people try to pretend their personal reasons are rational, even when they are not, because this can deceive other people that actually want to make a rational decision. If people want to risk a visit to the ICU because they don't want to trust science, or are afraid of needles, etc. they should openly recognize it instead of making up pseudofacts like vaccines killing thousands of people.
Yes it does for rational people, once again if you do not recognize as safe anything as long as there is any risk, that means absolutely nothing is safe for you, which is nonsense. Why you could not give any example of a safe thing? easy, because doing it would make obvious you contradict yourself. Having double standards is a very easy way to prove people are not being rational.
Nothing in your source prove the invalid conclusions made. Were the previously infected people also vaccinated? because that would be enough to explain what is observed, are the vaccinated people at a higher risk and therefore routinely tested more? And more importantly, are vaccinated people complicating and dying more? because the whole point of vaccination is to prevent the negative consequences of getting the infection, so if the people are getting mild infections at much, even if they are in vulnerable groups, that would still be proof of vaccines being hugely protective.
A clip from the Matrix. Okay. What do I have to see for myself?
The only people that are dying of Covid these days are the unvaccinated. It’s not that complicated.
I chose to be vaccinated after reading and listening to all perspectives (including those radically against the vaccine). You are implying that other people, who do not think the way you do (perhaps this is not what you mean), are irrational. I am glad I read all information and I am aware of the fact there are risks in the choice I made. I feel more comfortable having made my choice after hearing both sides of the argument and I did not find all people against this specific vaccine to be irrational.
So that end....Who decides what is rational?
Do we want to go the level of what is happening now in the U.S. where the government monitors peoples' private posts on social media and then instructs social media to remove them?
I think we all have to at least agree that this is a dangerous and slippery slope.
@Virusrex I opted for the Pfizer vaccine and would not accept any other based on my own personal research. Did you also get the Pfizer vaccine? If no which did you choose.
I noticed a few things.
Anti vaxxers all use the same sites the same few so-called experts no solid research papers, no peer reviewed material and a lot of "watch this YouTube".....
While those countering these anti vaxxers, use multiple sources from experts around the world with actual facts data, hundreds if not thousands of actual scientific papers published and a lager number of those peer reviewed.
This is telling that anti vaxxers have so little to go on that they all gravitate to the few places that support their misguided beliefs.
I got vaccinated and I read some of the sites you are likely referring to.
I also believe not everyone should be vaccinated.
Am I an anti vaxer because of this?
Let me repeat again:
Everybody should decide by themselves to take the vaccine or not.
If rational people, like Virusrex mentioned, are thinking the vaccines are safe, OK then go ahead and blindly take it.
At the end everyone is responsible for his or her own life, body and action.
If side effects, short term or long term or whatever, are coming up, and if they come up, they also come up for the rational people, there is no one to blame except yourself. Because you decide by your own to take it.
It is exctly like Tokyo-Engr said,
I am aware of the fact there are risks in the choice I made
And that also counts for me!
Therefore I decided to take my 2 shots of the vaccine.
If I got side-effects, I can not blame anyone, just myelf, because I decided to take it.
But I would never ever urge or recommend anyone to take the vaccine.
This decision should be done by each human personally.
And one more time:
Nobody should be blamed for not taking the vaccine!
We get the picture, sport.
No need to keep repeating it.
Only to be surpassed by people that have no clue what they are talking about.
There are studies, and there is also data collection and suppression of debate.
Accusations of deception and irrationality aimed at the cautious is an abomination to science. It is the classic symptom of the self delusional.
And with regards to retractions, look no further than the respected pillars of medical journalism such as the Lancet.
The latest WHO declaration that the possibility of the virus not originating from a natural source (ie a lab) is even more hilarious.
Woah, sounds bad, I hope there are no Japan-based English language websites that allow vaccine misinformation to profligate completely unchallenged.
In general, for people without specific conditions the vaccine represent the least risk, proved scientifically. By definition a rational/logical decision means choosing what can be objectively be demonstrated as such. Choosing the higher risk is not rational, people of course can make that decision, but the same as refusing blood or antibiotics for religious reasons that does not make that decision rational, and misrepresenting that decision as such have an effect on other people that do want to make one.
It is not as hard as you think it is, if the decision is based on feelings, fears that are not grounded in objective information it is not rational.
There is no slope, that comes only by forcing people to only make rational decisions, which this is not the case, people should be able to make irrational decisions if they want, but not misrepresent those decisions making things worse for others.
That contradicts absolutely nothing about what I argue about, you can decide, but misleading people so you can pretend your choice is logical is not valid, because that helps spreading misinformation,
People that take irrational decisions can validly be called on that. Because that makes it much easier for those that want to act rationally to choose properly. Not recommending vaccines is one thing, using false information just to pretend your decision is rational is a completely different one.
Let me be more clear on this.
I fully support anybody rejecting a vaccine or any drug even if their reasons are complete nonsense as long as the person recognizes it. What is not valid is to try to deceive others (or even himself) by pretending their personal reasons are logical or rational, because that means spreading misinformation.
i dont believe its the internet. Its not lice being vaccinated has changed anything. Vaccinated people still getting sick.
People proving something you don't like with scientific data is not the same as having no clue, if you cannot defend a a retracted article against the arguments that prove it was deeply flawed, this means you have to accept it is invalid. Trying to use a source to "support" an argument even when that source was already proved mistaken is precisely what counts as misinformation. Nobody actually interested in being truthful would be doing that.
And I already explained this is a strawman that nobody but you is doing, being cautious is one thing, actively using invalid sources, false information, demonstrably mistaken conclusions just to make other people agree with what the person wants to believe can validly be called being irrational and deceiving.
"What has been scientifically proven is that mRNA components accumulate to high levels soon after injection. There have also been several reports of more severe or longer menstruations following vaccination.
"We are obviously not being honestly informed by gov. agencies and MSM, we only get constant vax advertisements."
The above information comes from Pfizer's own data, provided to regulators, neither of which informed the public about this very important information!
If you bothered visiting these sites you would have noticed that they do include real experts and they discuss solid peer-reviewed research.
That common cold, or some stress "causes infertilty"?
One thing is that the vaccine have the same effects as other minor stimulus in menstrual cycles, what is false is that these minor, temporary changes observed are in any way more important or frequent than was is commonly observed, or that they can be characterized as "infertility". The original information is normal, expected from following thousands of people over half a year, the exaggerated "conclusions" are the problem.
We get the picture, sport.
No need to keep repeating it.
OK, I will stop.
But sometimes you have to repeat things, because people dont get it at the first time or even second time...
And that the people get my picture was important for me.
I read vaccines are known to cause autism in children. Google it if you like. All vaccines have some sort of risk as we blindly acknowledge it’s safe. Speak to your immune system and ask it can you survive this jab?
For once I am in complete agreement, but I don't think it is being addressed to the right people.
Anti-vaxxers are factories for breeding new more harmful variants.
They are not just hurting themselves, but putting the population and vulnerable at risk.
Just watch videos of those anti-vaxxers sitting on their deathbeds admitting they were wrong and it’s too late now; they lost. The terror in their eyes is sobering.
Oh no not the autism crap again!
Disproven so many times it is not even funny anymore!
They know it is genetic, I was born before vaccines were widely available I am fully diagnosed as Autistic, my great uncle autistic, my Daughter autistic.
No connection to Vaccines just we no long categories autistic as things like schizophrenic, mentally disabled, etc...which was what was common prior to the 1970~80s.
But this has been the go to in all anti vaxxers bag of false information.
Misinformation? Like that these vaccines tests trials are to be concluded in 2023? Or that the amount of adverse effects are many folds the numbers of the regular flu shots? These are true verifiable statements that insures that I will never be injected with this. Anyway, Great news!
Anti-vaxxers are factories for breeding new more harmful variants.
They are not just hurting themselves, but putting the population and vulnerable at risk.
That is misinformation pushed by the mainstream. It’s actually the vaccinated that breed variants. Just think about it logically.
Media misinformation and fraudulent news/reports not just only kill people, they could even destroy a whole nation easily.
Be alert, all the time..
But Pfizer's own data shows that the vaccine components accumulate at high levels in the ovaries, the cold virus and other stressors do not.
I strongly recommended my kids not to get the vax, especially for my daughter.
objectively and provably (not to mention laughably) false.
I’ll go with the FDA - the world-wide gold standard for safety and efficacy over the opinion of an internet “wizard” every day of the week, thanks.
It is funny to read foreigners in Japan go on about they will not get vaccinated.
Let's get real, most countries are going to require vaccination proof to enter.
You may be able to return to your country of citizenship without being Vaccinated ( so no conditions others like Canada a costly 14 day quarantine in a designated location at your expense).
But on your return to Japan as non citizens the vaccine rules will eventually apply as non citizens the Japanese government can and we know they will.
So this macho posturing is all nice and cute but in the end of you ever plan on going to another country or returning to Japan you will suddenly be looking for a place to get your Vaccine.
The opposite, vaccinated people neutralize the virus faster and have reduced rates of infection and transmission, which makes appearance of variants much less likely.
It is easy, who do you think is more likely to be right? the scientific community based on huge amounts of data or someone that say they are all wrong and in a world conspiracy, based on things that can be easily demonstrated as false? One side is simply much more likely to be rational.
Can you bring a source for this, obviously you can't be talking about results from mice experiments, inoculated with huge megadoses of the vaccine directly intravenously to examine an extreme situation impossible to see in humans, right?
Because that would be exactly the kind of misinformation the article is talking about.
Please do tell us how exactly that works in your mind?
You do know the guy that promoted that Pfizer thing is an ex VP of Pfizer who sold his own company to the maker of a rival vaccine and the sale includes stock in that company.
He is promoting that Company's vaccine.
Oops could he possibly have a conflict of interest!?
Yes you are correct and I gave the example of Canada.
So if they are fine in paying for several days to weeks in quarantine, well I guess that is their choice but they had better have a nice amount of time to waste.
Going for a 2 weeks vacation back home is out of the question, quarantine on arrival, then quarantine on my return is already way more than 2 weeks.
So yes as I said and you say one could possibly travel unvaccinated but how practical would it be?
Sorry, no offense @1:33pm but had to laugh (…seeing that avatar with that kind of statement):
Keep them on their toes, P. Smith! - Always, Best Wishes!
Finding excuses again for the slow inoculations.
Individuals pushing misinformation are bad, but worse in my opinion are those Internet sites that will not allow other individuals to challenge the misinformation spreaders, and perhaps worse are those sites that allow misinformation to be pushed on their platform. An example, Covid is just another disease that's similar to flu. And this late in the game those misinformation spreaders are still saying that and platforms are still allowing it to be posted. I understand reasonable people rarely believe the big liars and misinformation spreaders. Still some in the fringe believers group, made up of many individuals with questionable reasoning skills, are claiming a chip has been included in the vaccine so people can be tracked.
Unfortunately in Japan, online news sources are as misleading as CNN.
Especially the comments sections.
Much thanks to @virusrex for consistently responding to the never ending misinformation and “experts” with reasonable, logical and factual responses. You are doing wonderful work and deserve respect.
Well, I suppose you have a point. I sure feel better about the safety of these EUA medicines now.
Thank you for clarifying everything.
Possible side effects include anything that is theoretically possible, not things that are realistically possible, much less something actually observed.
Do you know what is actually much more important that things that could have happened but didn't? data from millions of inoculations that prove none of these things are elevated on vaccinated people when compared with non-vaccinated ones.
People that actually have an interest in vaccine safety do know, anything that have been ever observed even in very different vaccines, on any kind of trial (like in mice) over all the time they have been used has to be included until it it can be demonstrated it does not. Exactly as it happened for them.
Vaccines are still considered much safer than the infection based on open scientific data examined all over the world by the best experts, misrepresenting and exaggerating information out of proportion to mislead others simply is not something that can refute it, it would be as bad as using as "proof" retracted articles, on purpose hiding they were retracted.
The biggest myth is that Japan even has a vaccine to deliver! I have had my voucher since June 21st. But I still cannot get an appointment to get vaccinated. Nothing else really matters.
Do former covid patients have 'I had covid' stamped on their foreheads? Christ, it's like trying to say you can spot a Zainichi in the crowd.
Please, just leave Darwin alone so he can get on with his work.
And some say you can get killed while crossing a busy road. Don't forget, the earth might not be round.
The are not theoretically possible. They are actually occurring.
The heart inflammation and neurological incidents are already well documented.
And please do not discuss long term effects. Because you have no clue.
And to flash-slide through side effects on a FDA presentation with no commentary is absolutely irresponsible in my opinion.
Not when it comes with higher risks for the health, by definition that would make it worse.
The possibility is one thing, that this possibility is much higher with the natural infection is the important part, vaccinating reduces this risk also, which is something well described.
Then again, every time I ask you to bring proof vaccinated people have the problems above what is observed in non-vaccinated people you never bring anything.
Is people just supposed to believe you can contradict all the scientists and doctors of the world that say this is not true based on what? your authority?
Whops, no more autoimmune diseases, epilepsy, etc? good to see you can accept the effects are not being observed. Now, very rare side effects are expected, when they are a tiny fraction of the risk the actual infection produce that still means vaccines are much safer than COVID.
Once again, can you produce evidence of these effects being even comparable to the problems caused by COVID, or again you will just keep silent?
Cancel the superspreader Olympics, get vaccinating immediately.
one thing I noticed about anti vaxxers.
When we ask them if they can personally present to us someone that died or was harmed after getting the vaccine, their replies are always the same.
"I heard" " this YouTube video" " a friend told me their friend, ..." ect...
But not one can actually present a single direct individual.
Now I know plenty of people personally that actually lost friends and family to covid-19 this includes myself, losing 2 aunts my brother's mother in law,y friends 27 year old son who was a paramedic who died in the early days of the pandemic back home like many healthcare workers.
Even here in Japan as friend's father not much older than I am passed away from covid.
Ironically he was a client of my anti vaxxers dentist ( now former dentist) she knew him well, but when I asked her if she knew any one harmed by the vaccine, her reply was the typical anti vaxxers replies, " I heard, YouTube, a friend told me, this so-called expert said, etc.." when asked if she personally knows people that died from covid she replied yes 3.
The illogic is beyond comprehension she actually knows people that died from covid and not a single person harmed by the vaccine but believes YouTube and anti vaxxer website misinformation over her own experience.
This COVID virus is the same has going to war. Now when you put up your hand to fight this war you are given a gun/ rifle or (vaccine) that been tested and yes it does have problems of miss firing at the rate of 1 in every 150,000 rounds. Will you refuse to use that rifle/gun when the enemy is just a few moment away??? I have never heard of a soldier refusing to use his/her gun/rifle when the enemy are coming at you from all side just like this virus. But we have a soldier will to fight but, Yeah Na this gun miss fire and no way I am going to use it until you issue a gun/rifle (Vaccine) that works 100%. Ok Private pull down your gun and you can leave don't worry about your fellow soldiers who are willing to die in the war (COVID) you can sit this out. This is how I see the attitude of anti vaccine people
Very good back and forth here. Im still waiting to hear from Google Facebook and Twitter why they are censoring known logical and professional opinions about the virus. They even censored a US congressional hearing on it! When big corps get involved in pushing an agenda, manipulating and censoring valid opinions, then everyone should be worried.
So let people that want the vaccine have it. Stop with the vouchers, proof of Id etc. Just get vaccinating now, make it a priority!
Ya sure. Very rare side effects. Almost as rare as children that are adversely impacted by Covid-19.
Like I said, I have absolutely no reservations with people taking the jab under their own right to choose. I really don’t care.
But if that is ever imposed on me, based on how these medicines have been brought to market, that’s another matter. And I deeply care about my personal well being beyond the ramblings of a pushy narrative that has been mired in inconsistency since it began.
as of July 7, Attributed to the vaccine
9000 deaths, 26000 hospitalizations , 56000 urgent care visits, 2000 Anaphylaxis , 2400 bell’s palsy., recent heart issues with youngsters, etc. there is a reason people should be hesitant to take a vaccine that was rushed to market, experimental and has had more issues than any other vaccines combined
Any people misrepresenting false information as facts should be discarded because obviously they are misleading people dangerously, credentials in this situation only work to show these people should know lying is not a valid way to convince others, people that actually present data to prove what they talk about are not censored, but also they do not depend on social media to prove their points, they can use scientific publications to do it.
Those same children that you want to force to risk the infection even if they have comorbidities that could make the infection lethal just because you know more than their family and doctors?
With trials in the same scale done for previous vaccines? that would put you against all vaccines then.
The scientific community coincides that COVID is a very serious disease, that vaccines are safe (in the sense of being hugely safer than the infection) and that prevent infection, complications, deaths and transmissions.
Somehow your own personal opinion without any data to support it is not enough to contradict them all, specially when you only defense is a supposed conspiracy without proof.
Completely false, these are events happening after vaccination, not attributed to them, for that is necessary to compare those numbers with the rate of them happening in unvaccinated people of the same demographics. Without doing that comparison the conclusion of relationship is false.
Saving lives should not be such a complicated issue, leave it to us toake that way. Human nature at its finest.
I urge Japanese people not to get vaccine. I got first one in May last week and my left arm still pain so much, it's been nearly 2 months now. I'm nearly 40 now. Doctor told me it's just muscle pain and just prescribed me Omaezoporale. My second dose in in August. I don't think I can take another one, maybe right hand?
If you think you are healthy, then why do you need to get vaccinated? To save other's life but to ruin your own?
Attributed is the key word.
Can you provide any source for your claims.
Oh let me rephrase that, any reliable source.
Please don't return with VAERS or similar. The name says it all "Reporting System" which requires any "possible" link no matter how small or unlike must be reported
Not one has yet been confirmed to be due to the vaccine.
The same in the UK, etc..
Not everyone infected with the virus has or shows symptoms.
Why would I need a vaccine with preservatives and additives that my body does not need or require.
Everybody is being treated the same way- that is not right.
Everybody has a responsibility to take care of their own health and for almost two years I had been doing just that.
Hopefully you won’t experience anytime untoward after you get your jabs…
I don’t think they are anti-vaxers, just people who want more info before they dive in blindly. What’s with all these names being put on people, let people decide for themselves and you do you. If you have the vaccine and it works then you have nothing to worry about.
if you get covid is that not worse than getting a vaccine?
we dont know the long terms effects of getting covid.
i think people should be more concerned about the effects of covid rather than a vaccine made to control it.
if you compare the virus to anything else that potentially kills people, more people die from eating junk food or driving cars than all this.
but people dont go around fearing side effects of eating a burger or driving.
the benifit of a vaccine outweights the risks of getting the virus.
Just give these anti-vaxxers a coupon to saizeriya as an incentive and they will be lining up in no time.