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Books teaching elementary school students about LGBTQ issues grab spotlight

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Not the role of schools at all, particularly not at the elementary school level.

Teach them the basics. Heck, Japanese schools can't even get the teaching of English right and seem to have a real issue with bullying.

Why the heck do kids need to be taught about LGBTQ issues in elementary school??

Talk about the tail wagging the dog!!!

11 ( +28 / -17 )

Not needed.

If it's to be discussed at all, it should be done along with sex Ed.

7 ( +22 / -15 )

The gay people I know are quite happy with the tremendous progress we've made over the past few decades and they just want to be seen as ordinary people, not special or different or people who need to be celebrated or referred to by particular pronouns. I think alot of them are horrified the recent militant LGBTQ movement, which is mostly pushed by people who are not LGBT themselves and have ulterior motives.

A bit of an aside, but I think it's important that people understand where this comes from and who or what influences the academics and writers who push this militant LGBTQ agenda. By far, the most influencial in academic circles is the Marxist philosopher Herbert Marcuse who wrote Eros and Civilization in the 1950s and invented the entire field of 'critical theory'. One of his stated aims was to promote a sexual culture of 'polymorphism perversion' (his words, not mine) which would help convince people that society was fundamentally opposed to their new sexual lifestyle and therefore had to be torn down (at which point the Marxist revolution would step in).

He and his fellow Marxist thinkers were deeply disappointed that the western, white, heterosexual working class proletariat had refused to rise up in a marxist revolution across Europe when they had the chance, so after WW2 they started looking for other groups which might be able to bring about the revolution. They identified racial, religious and sexual minorities as their new substitute proletariat. Yes, I know this sounds absolutely crazy to the average person but it's entirely true. If you want more information, just look for Herbert Marcuse, Theodor Adorno, Max Horkheimer and the Frankfurt school.

-7 ( +13 / -20 )

Perfect example of why Japanese education fails. You can't "teach" everything, nor should you. Some things have to be experienced, seen, stumbled upon, asked about and so on.

-1 ( +13 / -14 )

As a parent I don't want my elementary school kids to learn anything about LGBT or anything that doesn't concern their lives.

let the kids be kids at least in elementary school.

9 ( +24 / -15 )

I don't mind this type of book and think it's a good idea but it should probably be read after sex ed in the 5th/6th grade after learning the basics.

-2 ( +12 / -14 )

I was hoping Japan wouldn't head down this path, its a topic that should be excluded out of the class room LGBTQ make up less than one per cent of the population, Education should be focused on studies that can assist students in the real world.

3 ( +20 / -17 )

Why are people assuming this is sex based stuff that needs to be saved for sex ed?

It's for elementary school, boys and girls form bonds, and friendships and even the occasional hand holding, no one is up in arms about that.

I think this is aimed at educating about children who don't fit the standard gender roles. Those kids exists, and instead of ignoring them, providing some education about who they are, for themselves, as well as for their friends and peers, isn't going to hurt anyone. In a culture where everyone has a place, and fitting in is crucial, the more understanding there is, the better.

-1 ( +15 / -16 )

What a good idea. It's ridiculous that people believe this topic should only be discussed in sex education lessons. Why not make children aware that some people are different from the usual mummy/daddy family, the sooner they are aware the better.

0 ( +16 / -16 )

Wow, I am surprised by some of the posts so far here. People complain when the schools don't teach something, and then complain when they do.

Difficult crowd.

I wish they would have come out with a textbook on how to live with and learn to deal with people who are not Japanese BEFORE this.

-2 ( +12 / -14 )

Why not make children aware that some people are different from the usual mummy/daddy family, the sooner they are aware the better.

Elementary school kids age is between 6 and 12 years, Do you really believe they can comprehend a topic that is still controversial among adults?

I am sure there are plenty of important topics that the kids need to know about before LGBTQ, and they should be taught about LGBT in appropriate age.

2 ( +14 / -12 )

LGBTQ make up less than one per cent of the population.

Without solid stats, such an assertion is worthless as well as potentially harmful.

7 ( +16 / -9 )

The ministry of education is also encouraging teachers to take an active role by giving consideration to LGBT students in schools and have released a notice urging educators to take concrete steps to support such students.

This is my issue with gay or transgender people. They should not be treated any different to any other student or adult. Those who demand recognition are almost stating they are only doing it for the attention. I have had college students who have made a point of telling me they were either gay or even transgender. My reply has always been the same, "So what!" I see no reason to treat them differently just because of their sexual preferences or gender indecision. Educating young children on this subject is a delicate situation, but as the article states, it's mostly the teachers who need the education.

12 ( +20 / -8 )

If this was simply about education nobody would have a problem with it, but like everything that identity politics touches it will inevitably end up trying to police people's speech and thoughts. Just look at how Caitlyn Jenner was ripped to shreds after daring to say that she was still a traditionalist who thought marriage should be between a man and a woman. I personally disagree with her, but I think everyone is entitled to their opinion without being accused of betraying their 'identity group'.

There are already virtue signalers who are labelling the authors of the books in this article as 'problematic' (a code word for unacceptable wrong think). Apparently the word transvestite has fallen out of favour with the central committee since this book was published.

However, Being Transgender does include a few uses of the word transvestite, which is an outdated and potentially problematic term.

http://www.slj.com/2016/11/reviews/series-made-simple/global-citizens-social-science-series-nonfiction/

-4 ( +7 / -11 )

This is my issue with gay or transgender people. They should not be treated any different to any other student or adult.

While I can empathize with your feelings here, However, for too long the community has had to live practically underground and were and are discriminated against because of who they are.

Sure, I agree they shouldn't be treated differently, and THAT is what they are asking for, because there is too much history that says otherwise.

-3 ( +10 / -13 )

Differences, acceptance and inclusion can be taught without involving sexual preference or "gender identity".

13 ( +17 / -4 )

Elementary school is the best time for children to learn that some people are different and to normalise it. It won't make them gay, but when they grow up, perhaps they won't have the outdated notions about homosexuality that many Japanese have.

This isn't something about sex ed, but just about being accepting that some have different lifestyles and to accept it without judgement, hysteria or mockery.

As a parent I don't want my elementary school kids to learn anything about LGBT or anything that doesn't concern their lives.

That probably rules out most of the curriculum then.

, its a topic that should be excluded out of the class room LGBTQ make up less than one per cent of the population, 

Really? Most studies put this at somewhat higher. Looking at marriage statistics in the UK for 2014, over 2% were between same sex couples. And that does not reflect the number who are gay and choose not to marry as well as those who remain in the closet. 5% is usually the accepted figure.

Of course, schools could ignore this, and Japan could go on thinking that gay people are freaks who can be tolerated as tarento only.

-1 ( +10 / -11 )

Heh, nothing to make people freak out like learning their kids are finding out about things that exist in the real world.

Teaching acceptance is a good thing.

Nothing sexual needs to be taught. My son met a gay married couple I know back home when we last visited. We went to their house, hung out for the afternoon, went swimming in their pool, then went home. Later I told him that they were married. He said 'but they're both boys'. I said that sometimes boys love girls and girls live boys, but other times boys love boys and girls love girls. His reaction was something along the lines of 'ok'. It was pretty much a non-issue.

Kids can handle these things a lot better than adults sometimes.

14 ( +18 / -4 )

"We want children who are not (of the LGBT community) and teachers to also read these books," said one book editor.

One would think that the overwhelming majority of kids (say 7-12yo) are not part of the LGBT community for the simple reason that they are asexual &/not sexually active.

The last time adults acknowledged that kids were 'sexual beings' (in the 60s/70s) pedos joined the party pretty quickly. Not again thanks.

As for those books, I agree that they should be 'readily available' at schools (for kids who are curious/question their own feelings etc) but am not sure this is something that should be discussed in details in the classroom.

2 ( +9 / -7 )

Best time to teach kids is when they ask questions, hot topic right now and I guess many curious minds.

7 ( +11 / -4 )

PM Abe's wife rode in a float in Tokyo's pride parade 2 years ago, along with a group of drag queens. I'm pretty sure Japan is moving forward on the issue. (full disclosure, gokai is totally gay) However, back when I was in grade school in the 80s, several TV drama shows dealt with youth sexuality and LGBT quite frankly, in a way they don't do today. Like 告白 or 同窓会 (I don't know what these programs are called in English). You can see clips on YouTube. None of this was new to us.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Educating kids that LGBT kids and parents exist is important.

If by special privileges you mean not being discriminated against, yes it is. People are not loosing their job, their social status or attacked for being straight.

Kids are not tought about what happens in the bedroom of LGBT people. Believing this is plain stupid.

If you believe this spark gayness in your kids, please see a shrink.

8 ( +14 / -6 )

Teaching people to be nice to each other is a core value, worthy of being taught at any age.

When sexual orientation gets added to that discussion is up to the parents or the child, since they will likely see gay couples around town or in the media at an age before a parent expects it. Hopefully, the child will ask a parent for help in understanding.

It is sort of like religion. In a non-religious house, at what age should that discussion happen?

6 ( +8 / -2 )

One would think that the overwhelming majority of kids (say 7-12yo) are not part of the LGBT community for the simple reason that they are asexual &/not sexually active.

The last time adults acknowledged that kids were 'sexual beings' (in the 60s/70s) pedos joined the party pretty quickly. Not again thanks.

This is not about the sexual practices of gay people but about recognising them as part of society and that their lifestyle may be a bit different.

You make a very confused link to pedophilia.

7 ( +12 / -5 )

Yeah and now some kids will get the idea that this kind of people "was really oppressed, are more proud, more special, more honest about their own feelings" and will subconsciously swing themselves this way. Way to go forcing modernity heroism unto the little, innocent humanchildren. Japan - world another one:0

-7 ( +4 / -11 )

How is asking to be accepted asking to be treated differently? It's naïve to think there isn't a problem with homophobia that'll nicely go away if we just ignore it. We always hear how Japanese kids from kindergarten are taught to have a strong sense of community and being in a group, so isn't it valuable teaching kids to accept everyone in that group?

LGBT isn't always about the sexy part. It's about family dynamics. Obviously, that's something kids are exposed to from they are born, so why not teach them about other kinds than the one they already know? I do believe it could foster a general sense of acceptance toward other people in society.

4 ( +9 / -5 )

How about lolicons in Japan?

The deserve the same respect!

-7 ( +5 / -12 )

"Jonorth"

See the average "Pride parade participant" to get a little insight on how they want to be "treated differently(e.g. superior to anyone else)". Should be quite obvious from their "witty remarks" and endless accusations.

-3 ( +5 / -8 )

Lip-service! The only openly gay people I know in Japan are foreigners. I know a few closet homosexuals who are in marriages of convenience for the company's sake. It's not tolerated in Japan -- just ignored. Nothing wrong with teaching awareness, but it's funny how hard the government works to erase proper history from the textbooks and then pushes to teach about things kids aren't likely to know much about to begin with. Most boys at this age think it's still for peeing with.

-7 ( +4 / -11 )

"Okay children, today we're going to talk about the birds and the bees. And the flamingos."

-3 ( +7 / -10 )

This is only slightly worse than the PC (politically correct) fad. Do whatever you like in the privacy of your own homes, provided that no one gets hurt, but, please don't shout about it.

-6 ( +6 / -12 )

Do whatever you like in the privacy of your own homes, provided that no one gets hurt, but, please don't shout about it.

The same applies to heterosexual couples too, of course.

But I understand why an oppressed minority might want to celebrate their identity and liberation once a year in a parade that hurts no one.

1 ( +8 / -7 )

But I understand why an oppressed minority might want to celebrate their identity and liberation once a year in a parade that hurts no one.

Can sexual preference be classified as a minority? I thought it was limited to race, ethnicity and culture. Or is this a SJW definition?

-6 ( +7 / -13 )

IF this ever comes down to this, I would avoid like fire shoving into child's face the conversation "What are those "rainbow" people?". If the stars align and my child acquires the knowledge of the existence of "rainbow" people, I will tell him that those people are the same humans as am I, the child, and everyone else falling under human category is. And then I will suggest him to avoid them, again.

-5 ( +7 / -12 )

Ah_so,

oppressed minority?

What oppressed minority? People don't want to know! They are not oppressed, but they certainly ARE a minority.

-3 ( +5 / -8 )

Daniel.

How do you avoid them? Your hairdressers, combini staff, etc might be one.

Not like they have patches sawn on their clothing.

6 ( +10 / -4 )

What oppressed minority? People don't want to know! They are not oppressed, but they certainly ARE a minority.

Look at social attitudes to gays in Japan. Why do so many live their entire lives in the closet if they do not suffer oppression? Look at the views of the closed minded on this site. And it Japan, same sex marriage is not recognised.

Can sexual preference be classified as a minority? I thought it was limited to race, ethnicity and culture.

Time to buy yourself a dictionary.

5 ( +11 / -6 )

Well, I believe that it shouldbbe teached when they teach sexual education. Well... not

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

@ah so, huh? You completely misread/misinterpreted my post. I obviously didn't (and would never) 'link' gay sexual practices to pedophilia.

What I did was warn ppl against adults (mostly heteros actually) who think children are 'sexual beings' and treat them as such.

The last time adults acknowledged that kids were 'sexual beings' (in the 60s/70s) pedos joined the party pretty quickly. Not again thanks.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Time to start our "Black and White Pride" parades, lads! We can't lose to the modern tendencies eh??

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

If this was simply about education nobody would have a problem with it, but like everything that identity politics touches it will inevitably end up trying to police people's speech and thoughts.

That's what I'm afraid might happen. Anyone interested in this should check out Prof. Jordon B. Peterson.

Educating kids that LGBT kids and parents exist is important.

I'm sure any kid who watches Japanese TV knows they exist.

-7 ( +2 / -9 )

I think Zichi is right. Take for example lesbians, generally speaking, they are less obvious to the naked eye than male gays--not counting the "butches". Male gays, generally speaking, are flamboyantly gay, forcing you to take notice of their sexuality, primed to label you a bigot if you turned off, not at the gayness, but at the blatant display of sex--everything has it's time and place. I went to a pride festival once--there was good music and food stands--and they were literally selling lollipop penis rings. People were there with their families and children were everywhere. Is that the way to teach children to accept diversity? This all just sounds like more garbage from liberal elites who, with their degrees and student loans, are being more and more anti-intellectual. I mean...c'mon. Why shouldn't this subject be saved for sex ed? Homosexuality is about loving people of the same sex in a romantic and or sexual way. Men love men as friends and brothers, that's not homosexuality. And the same is true for women. So this subject is totally about sex, and it's inappropriate at elementary schools. But of course the liberal elites, primed for bigotry themselves, will pounce on anyone who dares to disagree with them.

-7 ( +5 / -12 )

This is not about the sexual practices of gay people but about recognising them as part of society and that their lifestyle may be a bit different.

Where is the logic in this often stated comment that homosexuality is somehow unrelated to homosexual sex? You cannot separate acceptance from sex. Gay people have developed a subculture around their sexual preferences but such a lifestyle would be superfluous if they did not participate in homosexual sex. It is the very definition of homosexuality.

People have no choice but to recognize gay people as part of society for the simple fact that they exist - and always have existed. Why this fact makes it necessary to teach six year olds about it is a mystery.

You make a very confused link to pedophilia.

Well actually you are the one that is confused. I understand how adamant LGBTQ groups are in their desire to keep some sexual practices that even they find distasteful at arms length but these other "alternate lifestyles", like homosexuality, do exist and always have. At one time some were actually culturally acceptable in many societies around the world - even in the West until relatively recently. They also have their own subcultures and they also feel oppressed because of who they love. They do not feel that it is their fault for who they are attracted to.

The logic behind teaching acceptance of homosexuality- which of course is based upon who people have sex with - applies to virtually any sexual practice considered illegal by present day sex police.

-13 ( +2 / -15 )

It's inappropriate at elementary schools

Ah, Puritanism is a stubborn thing to remove. Teaching children about sex, and the fact that some people are sexually attracted to people of the same sex, is a very responsible thing to do.

It's long past time to grow up when dealing with this issue.

7 ( +11 / -4 )

I'm 100% supportive of LGBT and I think this is a little over the top. Make the information available to those interested, and by all means when sex is talked about discuss the fact that some people are biologically inclined towards the same sex, and it's been that way since humanity existed, and is not limited to human beings, either. I think forcing it on kids too young (same as sex ed in general) through the standard curriculum will have an adverse effect, though.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

The majority of comments prove why education is necessary...

This is honestly sad and disconcerting...

6 ( +13 / -7 )

Ah, Puritanism is a stubborn thing to remove. Teaching children about sex, and the fact that some people are sexually attracted to people of the same sex, is a very responsible thing to do.

Ah, classic anti-intellectualism, where liberal artists speak in slogans if you to don't follow their pc line : puritanism, conservative Christianity, archaism, blah blah blah. Nothing could be further from the truth. Kids don't need to be taught about people of the same sex loving each other. Give them credit to see it with their own eyes. Adults, the ones who impose morals and ethics on children, need to teach acceptance among themselves, practice equality daily, and the children will naturally follow. The children don't need to be taught, the adults do. And even the so-called liberals and progressives need to be taught and they need to practice what they preach. Not being politically correct and not agreeing these people tit for tat doesn't mean "hippies" have the right to get all bigoted with others and fall back on the passive aggressive, anti-intellectual slogans.

-4 ( +6 / -10 )

Kids don't need to be taught about people of the same sex loving each other. Give them credit to see it with their own eyes.

The bullying of homosexual pupils is and always has been a problem. Suicide rates are high.

You can't always rely on parents to convey this message as many are carrying the ideas of their own generation.

One of the most inspiring ideas I ever heard was that children should be taught to flush away what their parents left in the toilet bowl.

7 ( +10 / -3 )

How about we eradicate the idea of bullying period before we get into specifics? Japan has enough difficulties with trying to end bullying in general, let alone dealing with specific reasons for bullying.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Core courses like maths and sciences are mandatory, along with Japanese is standard matriculation for all elementary schools, Then you have cultural awareness subjects taught in classes here...i.e. Christmas, Halloween, and in some schools English, so it would also seem logical for for kids to learn about identity and sexual orientation in elementary school along with everything else that's being forced onto them.

However, given the maturity level of high school students here in Japan, I have my doubts elementary kids will fair well in a subject that requires intelligence and emotional maturity which ha been sorely lacking in recent years.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Not being politically correct and not agreeing these people tit for tat doesn't mean "hippies" have the right to get all bigoted with others and fall back on the passive aggressive, anti-intellectual slogans.

If you are going to use the term 'anti-intellectualism', don't write semi-literate gibberish like that. I'm semi-literate too. If I can see it, you know you're in trouble.

If teaching children not to discriminate against people based on what they are is PC, that is one of the strengths of the idea. I have problems when people tell me that it's unacceptable to criticize an idea or a belief.

Teaching children to question ideas and not attack people for what they are seems a good way forward.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

If you are going to use the term 'anti-intellectualism', don't write semi-literate gibberish like that. I'm semi-literate too. If I can see it, you know you're in trouble.

What? I forgot the word "with". Sorry, I was on the train typing on my smart phone. I noticed it. I just didn't think anybody would actually try to score cheap points with it.

-4 ( +5 / -9 )

@smithinjapan

Yes, I generally agree. I support everyone's right to live whatever life they want to live free from discrimination, to publish the books they want to publish, and even to teach (or not to teach) these things to their kids at an extremely young age if they genuinely believe it to be critically important to their child's development.

The thing that makes me uncomfortable is the idea that someone is subjectively deciding that these books should be made available in public school libraries for the benefit of society. As someone said above, this is still a controversial issue even for adults. It seems to me like leaving it to the parents rather than the state is entirely reasonable.

Whether it's religious cults, fascist youth movements, or Marxists in socialist Hungary promoting polyamory and promiscuity to school children, we see throughout history that those who want to push a particular ideological agenda tend to target children in the schools, so I think this is a perfectly rational concern that goes far beyond the relatively benign issue of LGBT people.

@Jimizo

One of the most inspiring ideas I ever heard was that children should be taught to flush away what their parents left in the toilet bowl.

Hmm. The question is, taught by whom? The example of a kind and inspirational teacher/role model, or the heavy hand of a state sanctioned textbook?

I think we have to respect the right of parents to raise their children with the values they deem to be important, even if we vehemently disagree with them. Just look at the historical revisionism that gets taught in Japan simply because a few nationalist bureaucratics are able to push their own agenda on children.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

And even the so-called liberals and progressives need to be taught and they need to practice what they preach

Taught what? I thought it was the liberals who were preaching equality and in this case, trying to fight against homophobia.

I'm not sure what the liberals need to be taught in this particular case.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

Daniel Naumoff

I still can't see how this is being treated different from everyone else. Of course the "flamboyant" types are more noticeable - just like any other sexuality, some people like attention. But I bet you'd be surprised at how many people in your surroundings are gay, because they are just regular people, going about their daily lives. Your comment is just too narrow-minded. What are those so-called witty remarks and accusations and what do they have to do with being treated better than everyone else?

6 ( +8 / -2 )

Hmm. The question is, taught by whom? The example of a kind and inspirational teacher/role model, or the heavy hand of a state sanctioned textbook?

I'd say a school ethos which teaches not to discriminate based on what people are. That would include ideas such as race, disability or sexuality. I think we can agree this is a decent principle.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

@M3M3M3

Thank you for your insightful and informative posts even though they may cause a reaction from the political correct crowd.

There are three other elements to explore within the history of such developments;

a) the insidious influence on gay identity politics by the international "Man Boy Love" movement (NAMBLA in the US but present internationally),

b) the deliberatively corruptive manipulations of Alfred Kinsey's circle, and

c) the "idiot left winger" element within the Teachers Union in Japan.

Now, full disclosure here from me, my core politics would be "leftist" but I'm critical of the popular left wing in Japan, and particularly elements within the Teachers Union, for reasons that the moderators would, no doubt, start to moderate if I explained them. One of their current fads is "genderless" education, ie educating children to be genderless and breaking down simple gender barriers, like single sex toilets and changing room etc. I suspect that this is part of that.

They have a tendency to adopt second hand ideas from the West somewhat out of context or proportion and as an over-reaction to the conservative elements of Japanese society. Within the union, there exist the type of Marxist /communist leaning elements you are talking about.

Now, the as soon as the PC crown reads "NAMBLA" or the "Man Boy Love" movement, and we are talking about the sexualization of children and the deliberate promotion of at least pedestry here, they generally kneejerk and play the "homosexual are not pedophiles" card. Which is not true. Homosexual pederasts are. Pederastry is also gender specific. Not all are, but a significant propportion push the limits of acceptability.

It's a very sensitive issue within the greater gay consciousness because it's uncomfortably true. The MBL movement was and is working to sexualise children and include their proclavities within the greater gay message. Which many mature homosexuals were, reasonably, disgusted at and disagreed with.

The thing to then do is examine the statistics for early sexual contacts, or the onset age, and contacts between younger and older members within the community.

It's a bit of a slamdunk in favor of all of the above.

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

@Hammerhead

Thanks. I'm not too familiar with most the things you mentioned, but it does seem like quite a few groups do try to push their own agenda by piggybacking on the success of LGBT rights movement. Most recently we saw the black lives matter movement trying to add black and brown stripes to the rainbow flag. I think the LGBT community should be very wary of this.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Gay. Trans. And the rest of the letters of the alphabet:

Do whatever you want to do - it's your life, so be happy. But stop being so delusional to believe that everyone must accept you and your ways.

People are judgmental by nature. Getting a giant tattoo on your face will have people looking down on you, discriminating against you, etc. Doesn't matter how saintly or kind-hearted you are - or if you are just wanting to gain acceptance.

Just as going to Ginza dressed in garb from Harajuku will get you looked at in a condescending, negative manner. Not accepted in the fancy tea/cake cafe, etc.

I could honestly care less what your sexual preference is, or gender identity or lack thereof. Again, nobody owes you anything in life. Whether you made the choice or believe it was made for you, just because you believe it should be accepted doesn't mean those who don't follow your way must accept it.

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

Putting aside the "teach it / don't teach it", the cost of the book seems really high! Don't know how many per school we would be talking about but it sure doesn't (can't be) anything like the size of a typical school text book.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Wow, so many misinformed commenters here.

It is a GOOD thing that Japanese children, like all children, learn about people different from themselves. And for the 8% (yes it is around this percentage) of students - who are discovering new things about themselves and about their feelings towards other kids - having someone there to shed some light on these feelings, or let them know that they have a support network, will do wonders for their development and sense of self.

Y'all complain that Japanese teachers do a bad job teaching english but when some attempt to be proactive about other subjects, y'all just complain some more. It's ridiculous. Shame on you for wanting to keep this subject hidden from kids who can easily grasp this information if presented.

2 ( +7 / -5 )

What I did was warn ppl against adults (mostly heteros actually) who think children are 'sexual beings' and treat them as such.

In which case it is an irrelevant non-sequitur. No one is thinking of treating children as sexual beings. It is simply to educate children that while the typical couple in society is formed of a man and a woman, there is an alternative for a relatively small percentage of society who live their lives as man and man or woman and woman.

Children should understand that while not so common, it is valid and that these people should not be mocked or discriminated against for being a bit different.

They do not need to know anything about their sexual practices, or even about the sexual practices of hetero couples for that matter.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Now, the as soon as the PC crown reads "NAMBLA" or the "Man Boy Love" movement, and we are talking about the sexualization of children and the deliberate promotion of at least pedestry here, they generally kneejerk and play the "homosexual are not pedophiles" card. Which is not true. Homosexual pederasts are. Pederastry is also gender specific. Not all are, but a significant propportion push the limits of acceptability.

This entire sentence is ridiculous. Homosexuality does not equal pederasty. You say it yourself, homosexual pederasts are pederasts. Same as heterosexual pederasts are pederasts. The problem is not in the sexuality of the pederast, the problem is the pederasty itself, which should be condemned no matter the sexuality of the assailant. And claiming pederasty is gender specific is disingenuous - of course it is, as the definition of the word is between two males. But there are also women who engage in sexual relations with young women and/or men, so choosing a male-specific word, then claiming it only applies to males, with the nuance that women don't also participate in this behavior is simply trying to stigmatize homosexuals even further. Sexual relations with children should be condemned no matter what the sex or sexual orientation of the perpetrator, and trying to claim all homosexuals should be condemned because some are pedophiles would logically mean that all heterosexuals should also be condemned because some are pedophiles.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Wow, so many misinformed commenters here.

It's pitiful, isn't it. With a few honourable exceptions it's a catalogue of paranoid, hysterical, bigoted nonsense.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

But there are also women who engage in sexual relations with young women and/or men,

What! Oh, I guess you're talking about the high school teacher who gets caught screwing a 17 year old kid. Hardly the same and a bad argument.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

What! Oh, I guess you're talking about the high school teacher who gets caught screwing a 17 year old kid. Hardly the same and a bad argument.

And hardly the argument I was making.

Do some googling. If you think women don't also sometimes abuse children (and no, I'm not talking 17 year olds here), then you're kidding yourself.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

I don't care if this book will be sold out in the market or any convenient store in every corner, the problem is if this book will be shoved in the minds of our elementary children. There are so many other things that they can teach that will benefit them in the future, sports, music, theater play, dance...other than this.

On the other hand, if they would like to introduce this book to senior high school students then maybe...

LGBTQ please do not take offense. We don't hate you but it doesn't mean every person in this planet should follow you. If you seek for respect then you earn it by respecting people who don't think like you.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

LGBTQ please do not take offense. We don't hate you but it doesn't mean every person in this planet should follow you. If you seek for respect then you earn it by respecting people who don't think like you.

Quite the strawman there. They aren't asking for people to follow them, only to accept them as equals

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Strangerland, I have family members that are LGBT and I do accept them.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

All these comments and votes show why schools should not be "teaching" about this.

Besides, Hollywood and the media are doing a great job of promoting LGBT awareness.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Strangerland, I have family members that are LGBT and I do accept them.

1) Glad to hear that

2) Doesn't change the strawman you posted

3) Read the thread and you'll see that while you may accept them, many people don't.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Homosexuality does not equal pederasty. You say it yourself, homosexual pederasts are pederasts. Same as heterosexual pederasts are pederasts.

Pederastry by definition is homosexual. It is what it is. But here is a very common tactic by LBGQT supporters to deflect blame for things that reflect badly on their identity group. It is not necessary. Everyone understands that not all homosexuals/bisexuals are attracted to children. For some reason however, homosexuals/bisexuals are over represented in pedophilia as opposed to heterosexuals. It is what it is.

Quite the strawman there. They aren't asking for people to follow them, only to accept them as equals.

No. The point of these books is not about equality- they are about acceptance of sexual practice. When it comes to sexuality you are what you do - your sexual practices. Many people think that homosexuality is not for them and would rather their six year old not be indoctrinated into this lifestyle by the government in their publicly funded schools. But of course the Leftist affiliated teachers unions have other ideas.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

Everyone understands that not all homosexuals/bisexuals are attracted to children.

And yet we have comments like this on the thread:

they generally kneejerk and play the "homosexual are not pedophiles" card. Which is not true.

The poster is saying that claiming homosexuals are not pedophiles is not true, or in other words, homosexuals are pedophiles.

So I would disagree with you that everyone understands what you claim they do.

For some reason however, homosexuals/bisexuals are over represented in pedophilia as opposed to heterosexuals

Please show some data to show this to be the truth. I'd like to see a breakdown of the number of heterosexual pedophiles vs. homosexual pedophiles.

Then I'd like to see the percentage of homosexuals that are pedophiles. Then we can determine whether it's a problem with homosexuals, or simply a problem.

No. The point of these books is not about equality- they are about acceptance of sexual practice.

Homosexuality and heterosexuality are more than just sex. I love my wife, and I love her in a different way than I love my children, and in a different way than I love my best friend. I define myself as a heterosexual based on that type of love which I feel towards my wife (as compared to the others). Sex is simply an extension of that.

You are claiming these books are about acceptance of a sexual practice. I'm assuming you've read them, so please give us some quotes where they discuss the sexual practices of these individuals.

Many people think that homosexuality is not for them and would rather their six year old not be indoctrinated into this lifestyle by the government in their publicly funded schools.

Comments like this show exactly why these kids need this education. Homosexuality is not a 'lifestyle'. Is your heterosexuality a lifestyle? If so, could you choose to stop being attracted to women in order to change your lifestyle?

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Great to hear! It's never too early to be educated on this as LGBT relationships become more common and visible. Those who are uncomfortable about books describing people in love I think are in for a pretty unpleasant future

5 ( +5 / -0 )

I agree that this book is a very needed piece of information, even for elementary students.

Heterosexuality is everywhere, tv, movies, magazines, ads, etc. It is ingrained into a mind unknowingly, even at a young age. I've seen people make their boy child kiss a girl child, innocently of course, but just another unconscious strengthening of heterosexuality.

In my experience as an LGBQT person, I always thought I was straight. I had crushes on boys throughout my elementary years. I never thought about girls at all. At that young age, I didn't even know about homosexuality. I saw no sign of it at school, in the media, etc.

If children are having innocent crushes on other children, it's not weird to let children know you don't just have to like the opposite gender. They should be exposed to LGBTQ as soon as possible. They will grow up well-rounded and won't be discriminatory against LGBTQ people.

In Japan, I don't see anything LGBTQ related at my elementary school. When the children ask if I have a boyfriend, I say no. I don't tell them or my employers that I have a girlfriend. I am not sure how people will react, only seeing straight couples everywhere I go. I think the children may see LGBTQ people on TV but may only see them as someone to laugh at (ex. "okama" jokes). My school is in the inaka, so any source of new information they can get would be amazing. I hope we get this book at my school.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Therefore, if a 10 year child presented itself claiming to be "LBGT", or even moreso the parents of a 10 year old child came forward independently claiming of of the child and it was "LGBT", I'd be very concerned about what was going on and whether it was being groomed.

Being gay isn't a choice, nor something one is groomed to be. If a child says they are gay, it's because they are gay.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

So what's the problem? If parents don't explain LGBT to their kids (and they often don't do it), then school should do it. There is absolutely nothing wrong with it. People are different, and we should accept this as a norm from a very young age.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

@Strangerland

Of course it is a choice.

I did post about the latest findings in the whole "gay gene" meme and other research into environmental factors, the primary one being child sex abuse, but it was removed.

What NAMBLA and its support from the GRM published were statements such as

"The liberation of pedophilia must be viewed as a gay issue...

[and that] ages of consent should therefore be abolished ...

by acknowledging the affinity between homosexuality and pedophilia ...

[making] it easier for homosexual adults to become more sensitive

to the erotic desires of younger members of their sex, thereby broadening gay identity".

In the archives of J. Sexual Behavior (2000) researchers concluding that "around 25-40% of men attracted to children prefer boys. Thus the rate of homosexual attraction is 6-20 times higher among pedophiles".

From J. of Sex and Marital (1992), Freud and Watson found that homosexual males were three times more likely than straight men to engage in pedophilia, and that the average pedophile victimizes between 20 and 150 boys before being arrested. 7 times more than heterosexual abuse.

The United States Army Office of Judge Advocate issued a study that analyzed 102 court martial convictions having to do with soldiers involved in homosexual acts over a four-year period. The study found that in 47% of the cases, homosexual men victimized a youth.

Bell and Weinberg found that 25% of white gay men have had sex with boys sixteen years and younger.

That "11 times more gays than exclusively heterosexual men reported sex with a man while they were under the age of 13".

In the J. American Medical Association reported that 50% of male AIDS victims reported having sex with an adult male under the age of 16, and that 20% had sex with an adult male by the age of 10.

In J. Homosexuality a special double-issue entitled, “Male Intergenerational Intimacy,” containing many articles portraying sex between men and minor boys as loving relationships. One article said "parents should look upon the pedophile who loves their son 'not as a rival or competitor, not as a theft of their property, but as a partner in the boy’s upbringing' and someone to be welcomed into their home.”

The gay “Guide” magazine published (1995), “We can be proud that the gay movement has been home to the few voices who have had the courage to say out loud that children are naturally sexual ... and deserve the right to sexual expression with whoever they choose.”

The article went on to say: “Instead of fearing being labeled pedophiles, we must proudly proclaim that sex is good, including children’s sexuality … we must do it for the children’s sake.”

Larry Kramer, the founder of ACT-UP, wrote, “In those instances where children do have sex with their homosexual elders, be they teachers or anyone else, I submit that often, very often, the child desires the activity, and perhaps even solicits it.”

A 1988 study even found that most pedophiles even consider themselves to be “gay”.

Therefore, if a 10 year child presented itself claiming to be "LBGT", or even moreso the parents of a 10 year old child came forward independently claiming of of the child and it was "LGBT", I'd be very concerned about what was going on and whether it was being groomed.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

I could honestly care less what your sexual preference is, or gender identity or lack thereof. Again, nobody owes you anything in life. Whether you made the choice or believe it was made for you, just because you believe it should be accepted doesn't mean those who don't follow your way must accept it.

But with better education we might get more acceptance and less discrimination.

No one is asking you to "follow" them, but simply to accept that they exist and treat them equally. I actually do not even understand what you mean in practice by not accepting it.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

Of course it is a choice.

What a ridiculous statement. When did you choose to be heterosexual?

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Pederastry by definition is homosexual. It is what it is. 

Correct, up to a point. But I would see homosexuality as a relationship between adults of the same sex. I do not see men that prey on female children as being an extension of their heterosexuality. But pedophilia generally refers to adults who prey on children of either sex.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

But with better education we might get more acceptance and less discrimination.

Therein lies the problem. I'm all for deadening discrimination, but forcing people to accept something they have every right to not accept, and discriminating against them for not accepting it; i.e., name calling: bigot, old geezer, stupid, religious fanatic, etc, that is discrimination. Forcing elementary kids to accept something is tantamount to brainwashing. No one has to accept homosexuality; people have to abide by the law and not deny services, or commit acts of verbal or physical violence, or any forms of discrimination based on race, creed, religion, or sexual orientation. That's it! Liberals claim to imagine a society where people are not judged on the content of their choices, where everyone is free to do what they like as long as it doesn't harm others. This is good, but liberals feel this can only happen within the framework of their system; it's their way or the highway. They will trample on all moral systems without question that don't give them authority to envision society as they think it should be. Where's the freedom there? Where's the cooperation? Making people accept homosexuality is hypocritical.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

I believe that educators should NOT be given the responsibility to teach or even pass on information concerning rights of LGBTQ or its philosophy, this is not their job description and not what they were hired to do.  This is not even the call of their superiors. 

Responsibility for teaching children about LGBTQ issues lies on the parents. 

Most of the bullying happens on school property and disciplinary actions are that of the school.  When bullying happens off of school property then it becomes a police issue.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Are you starting to see the pattern yet?

Yep - you post a whole bunch of data, then draw incorrect conclusions from it. Basically extended non-sequiturs.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

I see one of the authors listed as "Robato Ro Day".

Is that a foreigner trying to make a fake Japanese name, e.g. Robert Roday or something?

Ditto Cho Rora Loss?

OK, here we have it. Robert Roddy and Laura Ross. Translated by Ueda Toshiko

It's a translation of an English book, "Living Proud! Being Transgender"

See above for the start of the history of transgenderism if the moderators allow it.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

Correction Robert Rodi, author of

'Fag Hag', 'Closet Case', 'What They Did to Princess Paragon', 'Drag Queen', 'Kept Boy', 'Bitch Goddess' and a founding member of the Chicago-area performance group The Pansy Kings.

Laura Ross is likely his copy editor in order to help him reach a school age audience.

You could not make this stuff up if you tried.

Just who I want teaching my infant school aged children ...

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

THIS QUOTE :

"The books explore what it means to be transgender and the personal experiences of people who take steps to transition from the sex they were assigned at birth and "your options when you feel like your physical sex is out of sync with who you are."

...is truly a great focus for this huge issue.  Do you see it?  " the sex they were assigned at birth" .  Really?  By God? or by Mommie?  I don't know who is responsible for the wording in that publication/book, but what  a  can of worms! Let's go fishing then, eh?   I will try not to be too cynical, but it will be hard...

-Yes, you have options, but only when you feel like it.

-Out of sync, or maybe you feel like something is pushin' you outta groove, like when my record needle gets all the dust and won't play my music clear.

OK,OK I'm sorry.  Let's just fix it then:

transition from their sex at birth and " those individuals' potential choices" OR "empowering them to explore choices" to feel happy , safe, secure, etc with who they are, not only physically, but as a whole person, perhaps even with a new sex ( meaning visible or functioning organs) .  Functioning of course won't ever mean for reproduction ( unless original uterus/gonads are retained).  To put it crudely: function to appease or please

Again, sorry for the cynical interlood.  Decided not to edit out...

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

What an excellent idea. More countries should have this.

Being LGBT is perfectly normal; it should never be feared or demonised.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Being LGBT is perfectly normal; it should never be feared or demonised.

I would still take some convincing that to be "T" is perfectly normal.

It is a form of gender identity disorder. And while there is a very substantial campaign to suggest that gender is a fluid concept largely independent from our sex, I remain unconvinced.

But all the same, I accept their right to exist, and wish people from that section of society all the very best.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

StrangerlandJuly 20 04:07 pm JSTOf course it is a choice.

What a ridiculous statement. When did you choose to be heterosexual?

4( +5 / -1 )

I'll take on that question. At birth.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

I'll take on that question. At birth.

So you popped out of your mother, and your first thought was "I'm attracted to women more than men, and therefore heterosexual".

I think at birth the only thing I thought was "ouch" and "let's cry".

1 ( +3 / -2 )

You can no more chose your sexuality than chose the color of your eyes. It's all in the genes.

Even then, sexuality is a grey area. You can chose to experiment with it, of course. But you are who you are; straight, gay or bi - if you wish to do the labels thing.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

It's not in the genes. That's another bogus argument.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

Interesting article here, from The Telgraph (of all places)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/11922975/The-latest-gay-gene-study-gives-no-comfort-to-homophobes.html

You're born that way. You don't really have a choice in the matter. You do have the choice to whether or not to promote prejudice, though. If that's what floats your boat.

Another one here

https://www.theguardian.com/science/blog/2015/jul/24/gay-genes-science-is-on-the-right-track-were-born-this-way-lets-deal-with-it

We fall in love with men or women because we have gay, straight, or bisexual orientations and not because of choice. So let’s stop pretending there is choice in sexual orientation. Who truly “chooses” anything of substance anyway? Surely our choices are the result of things we didn’t choose (our genes, personalities, upbringing, and culture).

3 ( +4 / -1 )

It's not in the genes.

Yes it is.

Try to stick with reality in your arguments please.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Something else someone like Tatchell, and the author of this book, personify is the turning point from when some venture transforms from being a political movement to an industry, a money making venture. A re-writing of society's values for the sake of personal financial interests.

Of course it happens in other realms, but when it comes to infant re-education by gay pulp fiction authors, I think we should err on the side of caution.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Something else someone like Tatchell, and the author of this book, personify is the turning point from when some venture transforms from being a political movement to an industry, a money making venture. A re-writing of society's values for the sake of personal financial interests.

It's a common tactic of those fighting against something that they don't like to try to pretend the motivations of those they are arguing against are doing it for financial reasons, so as to discredit those they are arguing against, when they are not able to argue against it.

It's what the right has started doing with climate change. They claim that climate change is natural, and that people just want to make money off green energy initiatives.

You are pretending that people fighting for the equality of homosexuals in society are doing it for financial reasons.

Try to stick with reality in your arguments please.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

I urge people to err on the side of caution when listening to the disparagers who would trivialise and mock attempts at awareness of the marginalised and their plight.

Even in the 21st century; from Uganda to the Middle East, to the more "enlightened" lands - there are those who will continue to belittle and prevent equality, progress and respect of their fellow humans.

The publishers should be applauded for their stance.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Could it be 80/90% genes and 10/20% early childhood, upbringing, environment etc perhaps? That's what I always thought and wanted to believe tbh.

The thought of being 'trapped' in biological determinism (sexual orientation, intelligence etc) is pretty scary.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Some good comments here, enjoyed reading the different perspectives.

The teaching of tolerance in elementary school should be an expectation in this day and age I would have thought, but not convinced that the idea of LGBTQ needs to be introduced too early, largely because I think these aren't issues kids of that age are personally exploring or concerned with too much - I would see it fitting much more comfortably in a middle school early high school context in the appropriate forums.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Strangerland: What a ridiculous statement. When did you choose to be heterosexual?

People are not mindless robots. Unless some kind of assault is involved, who one has sex with is absolutely a choice.

Toasted Hertic: Interesting article here, from The Telgraph (of all places)

I read this article an found it interesting but also troubling in it's ramifications for society. It states that there is genetic evidence that homosexuality is at least in part genetically determined and therefore concludes:

As well as being unethical, it is [sic] also means that attempts to suppress homosexuality are bound to fail because a certain percentage of every population is always likely to be predisposed to same-sex attraction.

If there is a gay gene couldn't there just as easily be a pedophile gene? Attempts to suppress that have also failed. Then what? If human beings are mindless robots incapable of controlling their own behavior would it not also mean that attempts to suppress adults attraction to non-adults (however a society defines it) are also unethical? Are there not also non-Adults attracted to adults? It should be noted that this study only finds a relationship 70% relationship for a particular attribute. Since it isn't 100% true there factor(s) that are obviously missing in this study making it inconclusive at best.

I am definitely interested in learning more about the reasons why people become a certain way but we should be careful in how we present this to children lest we needlessly foist our adult agenda's on them and confuse them as they develop sexually. Elementary school is not the place for this. Leave it to the parents.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

People are not mindless robots. Unless some kind of assault is involved, who one has sex with is absolutely a choice.

But who one is sexually attracted to is not. I could have sex with a guy. As far as the physical action goes, there is nothing preventing me from doing it. I have all the tools... or rather the tool. But I don't. Why? Because I'm not attracted to men. And I couldn't imagine myself in a romantic relationship with a man, because I don't feel that way about me. Because I'm heterosexual. I would imagine you feel the same way.

No reverse that, imagine you only felt attracted to men, and only wanted romantic relationships with men. That's what homosexuality is. I know you people love to try to boil it down to only sex, but it's not only sex, it's that romantic feeling of love as well. And even as far as the sexual part goes, whom you are sexually attracted to is not a choice, it's an instinct.

If there is a gay gene couldn't there just as easily be a pedophile gene?

Possibly, though the fact that pedophiles are often those who were abused themselves show that it may very well be learned behavior. Homosexuals on the other hand almost without fail come from heterosexuals.

If human beings are mindless robots incapable of controlling their own behavior would it not also mean that attempts to suppress adults attraction to non-adults (however a society defines it) are also unethical?

Oh dear. You people love trying to equate pedophilia with homosexuality don't you.

But as far as it goes, adults are free to be attracted to children all they want. It's when they act upon that attraction that it becomes a problem, and the problem is one of consent. The action of pedophilia is imposing one's desires upon another who cannot consent. That is what we define as forbidden. Homosexuality however is between consenting adults, and therefore is not equivalent.

we should be careful in how we present this to children lest we needlessly foist our adult agenda's on them and confuse them as they develop sexually.

Children going through puberty are already confused sexually. That's part of puberty, regardless of orientation. But you know what makes kids feel less confused? Knowing they will be accepted by their peers even if their sexual orientation is different from the majority. And you know how you do that? Start education on acceptance at an age before they start puberty.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

If there is a gay gene couldn't there just as easily be a pedophile gene? Attempts to suppress that have also failed.

Sigh. Do people still do this? Equating homosexuality with paedophilia?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Sigh. Do people still do this? Equating homosexuality with paedophilia?

All the time.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Readers, pedophilia is not relevant to this discussion.

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