For many investors and intellectuals leaving China, it's Japan — not the U.S. — that's the bigger draw

No offense, but please go somewhere else.

i hear Canada is nice, Vancouver maybe?

stickman1760

please go somewhere else.

Why?

China’s once-sizzling economy is also in a rut

The above should surprise no one, after all Xi and the CCP have control, and have shared China's wealth with a small handful of their most obedient and loyal followers.

As pointed out in the article Chinese intellectuals and entrepreneurs have visited, studied in and invested in Japan for over a century. It's a win-win proposition for both countries. The challenge is that enough Japanese become conversant in Chinese language and culture so benefits flow in both directions.

He owns homes in Tokyo, as well as near a ski resort and a hot spring. He owns several cars, including a Porsche, a Mercedes, a Tesla and a Toyota.

Seems like many of those mentioned here are simply shopping around the developed nations for the most affordable places to buy luxury homes - and park their (very interestingly) acquired wealth. These are people with very high up connections back home.

These types are also buying up top end real estate in Vancouver, California, London and Sydney.

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Unfortunately, you can never be sure if these individuals are really trying to escape China's repressed regime and or are working for the regime.

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Japan is about the only country among developed nations that has been relaxing its entry and immigration requirements. At this rate, Japan will soon be swamped by Chinese immigrants and what happened to Manchuria, Tibet and Uighurs in Xinjiang province could well happen in Japan.

For intellectuals like Li and Jia

China and Russia are the leaders of the axis of authoritarianism, both experiencing a brain drain, leaving mostly a population of individuals willing to allow the state to control them, maybe be fodder for their big brother's wars.

So many anti-Chinese here. Bet most have never been to China and get their news from the usual corporate media suspects.

If you've got some dosh, wanna protect it as much as possible. Want to live in peace in a highly developed peaceful nation? Want to gain language skills to enhance ones future job opportunities? It's a no-brainer. Or consider moving to Canada or the USA. They've got their good points but no wonder Japan is a very attractive destination.

Interesting, because the news is Canada is about how the mainland Chinese have stopped coming in significant numbers. No wonder: skyrocketing living and housing costs, dirty scary city streets, a deeply divided angry society, etc.

However,, Japan's govt has had the right policies for the past 20 years or so in contrast to most countries in the West. Isn't that right, Ms. Merkel and Mr. Trudeau.

More and more and more people from China and the developed world will be wanting to move to Japan, particularly the younger generation, who see no future for themselves in their homelands. Most won't be able to, though, due to Japan's judicious immigration stance.

These Chinese people should be welcomed as some among them may rise to become leaders in China's future, who may be able to turn China into a country that it should be. Not a militant one party dictatorship under a leader for life.

Prior to WWII, some young people came and studied in Japan, which was the most advanced country in Asia. People like Chiang Kai Shek and Chou En Lai became leaders and greatly influenced Chinese history.

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Japanese have been free,as they perceived freedom, different from freedom in America,how did they let an oppressive country like China overtake them economically ,while they are at the mercy of the Chinese,maybe they were not free after all

Asiaman

as you may have noticed, Japan is overpopulated as it is, Tokyo is overrun with tourists to the point where it is getting increasingly difficult to live here. Canada is a huge country and has plenty of space.

As pointed out in the article Chinese intellectuals and entrepreneurs have visited, studied in and invested in Japan for over a century. It's a win-win proposition for both countries. The challenge is that enough Japanese become conversant in Chinese language and culture so benefits flow in both directions.

Why would the Japanese in Japan want to speak Chinese? It's not a challenge, it sounds more like a CCP doctrine!

Yawn.

Another "Look at how great Japan is" fluff piece from Japan Today. And it's even the "Top Story."

Get over yourself. I have lived in and like Japan for over 30 years, but this is too much.

China’s once-sizzling economy is also in a rut

Typical fluff piece from corporate media like AP

Freedom Rocks.

I know it might be hard for you to comprehend but Japanese do choose to study and work in China. I met my Japanese wife in Beijing years ago.

Shanghai has the vibe of Tokyo in the 1980s when the Japanese economy was booming.

Why would the Japanese in Japan want to speak Chinese? It's not a challenge, it sounds more like a CCP doctrine!

Even you? haha I might have the biggest hater club because I am a "CCP shill" and too critical of Japanese politics.

The key is to not take it too seriously. I would like to think all (or at least most of us) could sit around a table at a yakitori joint and enjoy a few beers or NA choice together.

AP's response to all those social media stories about Chinese scientists fleeing the USA in droves.

It seems that these Chinese could be vetted before entry. Many of them want out of China. Perhaps not all, but in the early part of the 20th century the US let some pretty good minds come to live here. Let's see, for example, um. . .Albert Einstein. A deep vetting and rejection of the slightly suspicious and letting in some really good minds seems that it would be a good thing. Yes, there are inherent dangers, but also possibly great rewards. I would be far more wary of the Middle East. The Chinese government, in the words of one of my doctors who grew up there. . ."It's no good. It's trash. It's nothing like America!" And he goes on like that for half an hour if I let him. The people there are just like the rest of us: normal ole people leading normal ole lives the best we can.

Oh, and he is one good doctor, too.

Understandable. Hopefully better behaved than Chinese tourists

Asiaman

as you may have noticed, Japan is overpopulated as it is, Tokyo is overrun with tourists to the point where it is getting increasingly difficult to live here. Canada is a huge country and has plenty of space.

I can certainly agree with that rationale.

This is part of an inevitable and natural process as Japan moves closer to China/Asia and away from its vassal-like relationship with the very far off (both geographically and culturally) US.

A better list of prominent Chinese who studied in Japan.

Sun Yat-sen (孫逸仙 / 孫中山): Often referred to as the "Father of Modern China," founder of the Republic of China. Sun Yat-sen studied briefly in Japan and developed strong connections with Japanese political circles. His time in Japan influenced his revolutionary ideas, and he later sought support from Japanese politicians for his efforts to overthrow the Qing Dynasty.

Lu Xun (魯迅): One of China's most famous writers and intellectuals, Lu Xun studied medicine in Japan but later turned to literature, becoming a key figure in the New Culture Movement. His works criticized traditional Chinese culture and advocated for modernization.

Li Dazhao (李大釗): A co-founder of the Chinese Communist Party, Li Dazhao studied in Japan, where he was influenced by Marxist ideas. He played a significant role in the early development of the Chinese Communist movement.

Chen Duxiu (陳獨秀): Another co-founder of the Chinese Communist Party and a leader of the New Culture Movement, Chen Duxiu studied in Japan. His exposure to Western political thought in Japan helped shape his revolutionary ideas.

Chiang Kai-shek (蔣介石): The leader of the Republic of China and a key figure in the Chinese Nationalist Party (Kuomintang), Chiang Kai-shek studied military tactics in Japan. His time in Japan influenced his military strategies and political views.

Zhou Enlai (周恩來): A prominent Chinese Communist leader and the first Premier of the People's Republic of China, Zhou Enlai studied in Japan during his youth. He was involved in political activities while in Japan, laying the foundation for his future role in the Chinese Communist Party.

Wang Jingwei (汪精衛): A Chinese politician and a member of the Kuomintang, Wang Jingwei studied in Japan and initially supported Sun Yat-sen's revolutionary activities. He later became controversial for collaborating with Japan during World War II as the leader of a puppet government.

These individuals' experiences in Japan influenced their ideas and actions, contributing to significant political and cultural changes in China.

This is part of an inevitable and natural process as Japan moves closer to China/Asia and away from its vassal-like relationship with the very far off (both geographically and culturally) US.

You don't get it. These are Chinese who are fleeing the repression of the CCP you grovel on your knees for. They grew up with it, it is all they have ever known and are sick and tired of it. They are not friends of the CCP. They don't want to recreate that in Japan, or San Jose California or anywhere else. They want elected government and the freedom to think, say and write what they please without fear of arrest, all those things that are proscribed in China today.

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It would be nice for local Japanese to profit from Japanese ski resorts, onsens, etc., not cashed up foreigners.

It is very common for Japanese to look upon the (remaining) natural wonders of Japan and not realize their international appeal and economical potential.

This might not matter so much if there were lots of other income sources in the Japanese countryside, but this is clearly not the case.

“On the other hand, we also want to observe what a democratic country with rule of law is like. We’re studying Japan. How does its economy work, its government work?"

I guess compared to China it might be intriguing but there are better countries for studying democracy and how government can work efficiently than Japan.

Yes, Japan embraced "modernism" before China and therefore was something of a laboratory mixing traditional East Asian with Western civilization. I will point out that many Chinese who visited Japan at this time did not enjoy their time there because of racism and budding imperialism. I would put Zhou Enlai and Lu Xun at the top of that list.

These individuals' experiences in Japan influenced their ideas and actions, contributing to significant political and cultural changes in China.

Wang Jingwei is China's equivalent of Benedict Arnold as he served in the Japanese installed puppet government in Nanjing during the second Sino-Japan war. Why he would show up on this list is confusing to say the least.

For those who want to learn more about China-Japan historical interchange one might want to check out the book China and Japan: Facing History by Ezra Vogel. It's not perfect but it is not a bad place to start.

toraToday 07:36 am JST

So many anti-Chinese here. Bet most have never been to China and get their news from the usual corporate media suspects.

I don't think most are anti-Chinese, more likely anti-CCP. I'm one of them and there's a huge difference.

These Chinese may have different backgrounds and reasons to leave China (as stated in the article). However, they are all just trying their best to find a better lives for themselves or even their childrens. They have choosen Japan to settle. The rich ones are lucky. While the others would definitely face challenges and hardships. I wish them the best of luck.

JohnToday  07:49 am JST

If you've got some dosh, wanna protect it as much as possible. Want to live in peace in a highly developed peaceful nation? Want to gain language skills to enhance ones future job opportunities? It's a no-brainer. Or consider moving to Canada or the USA. They've got their good points but no wonder Japan is a very attractive destination.

Japan has its appeal, being highly developed, generally peaceful, and safe for most—though less so for women.

But let's be realistic: calling Japan "highly developed" only really applies to its infrastructure and education. It ranks among the lowest in terms of gender equality and female empowerment, has one of the worst work-life balance cultures, low wages, limited press freedom, and operates under a pseudo-democracy.

People like Chiang Kai Shek and Chou En Lai became leaders and greatly influenced Chinese history.

Chiang Kai Shek was well taught by the Japanese and yearned a lot from Japan alright.

After picketing US aid, he and his corrupt KMT officials fled with their tails between their legs to Taiwan and killed an estimate 20,000 plus Taiwanese civilians and erceived political dissidents in the Feb 28th incident and the period known as White Terror.

You can ask these Chinese intellectuals who have lived in the U.S. and many of them will tell you the propaganda put out by the Western media and the censorship is way more controlling than that in China.

In China, it’s about the state: patriotism, treason and insurrection. In the West there’s more censorship. Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberger know a thing or two about it. .

It is very common for Japanese to look upon the (remaining) natural wonders of Japan and not realize their international appeal and economical potential.

This might not matter so much if there were lots of other income sources in the Japanese countryside, but this is clearly not the case.

It’s both but more the first paragraph. The Chinese are inherently capitalist investors compared to the Japanese who wish to be more in one with nature and not necessarily to make money.

China is better at capitalism than the West. They know how to control price, leverage scale of production and make things difficult for you if you make things difficult for them.

In chess, you would call it a pin, a sadistic pin of reciprocity. Ban bread and China will ban flour sort of speak. Ban chips and they’ll ban the rare earth materials you need to pin you.

I do noy understand why there are so many negative comments about educated and successful people being included in a declining population. So many comments protective towards cheap migrant labour. But proven pros are seen as a challenge on this forum. And I agreee , western media brainwashing is far more damaging to the world. Maybe history does tell the future... Kanji characters adopted ~100AD from the Han dynasty traditional characters, me thinks to enhance the marine trade at the start of monetisation ?? described trading between two nations . Any of you kanji guys ever looked at traditional chinese characters as used in HK?

Jpn should be happy to be boosted by more experienced people. HK is importin mini bus drivers!

stickman1760

No offense, but please go somewhere else.

This sounds like great advice for you.

The people who want to leave China but prefer Japan over US are exactly the ones I want to meet. After all, we would have something in common and its exactly this that Japan needs to flourish in the future.

"For many investors and intellectuals leaving China, it's Japan — not the U.S. — that's the bigger draw."

And it makes sense, for Kanji users it's easier than learning English right?

quercetumToday 02:18 pm JST

People like Chiang Kai Shek and Chou En Lai became leaders and greatly influenced Chinese history.

Chiang Kai Shek was well taught by the Japanese and yearned a lot from Japan alright.

After picketing US aid, he and his corrupt KMT officials fled with their tails between their legs to Taiwan and killed an estimate 20,000 plus Taiwanese civilians and erceived political dissidents in the Feb 28th incident and the period known as White Terror.

And yet he still murdered a fraction of what Mao did. Without Chiang, China would still be ruled by warlords, perhaps better for the rest of the world.

You can ask these Chinese intellectuals who have lived in the U.S. and many of them will tell you the propaganda put out by the Western media and the censorship is way more controlling than that in China.

In China, it’s about the state: patriotism, treason and insurrection. In the West there’s more censorship. Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberger know a thing or two about it. .

I believe some sources are in order as to what websites are banned in the US and who has been arrested for social media posts that aren't threats.

"exodus of people from China"

This phrase leads off the article and is intended to set the tone.

It is of course, if you stop to think about it, a gross exaggeration. Or to put it less politely it is an intentional lie.

The phrase will make one think of desperate people fleeing a repressive, backward, declining country. Anyone with the slightest knowledge of today's China, anyone who has watched China's spectacular growth over the last 20 years would laugh at it.

The explanation is at the very end of the article. It is an Associated Press piece. It is American anti-China propaganda.

I bet they are just laundering money acquired by their parents from shady CCP schemes.

I bet they are just laundering money acquired by their parents from shady CCP schemes.

Read the whole article before commenting, mate.

From the article;

Their backgrounds vary widely, and they're leaving for all sorts of reasons. Some are very poor, others are very rich. Some leave for economic reasons, as opportunities dry up with the end of China’s boom. Some flee for personal reasons, as even limited freedoms are eroded.

"“Protection of private property, which is the cornerstone of a capitalist society, that piece is missing in China,” Wang said."

The above is a ridiculous statement. Anyone with the slightest knowledge of Xi's recent economic initiatives knows that private investors are protected in China. It is an essential part of China's economic development strategy.

And who is this Wang? He is an American university professor.

Alfie Noake's comment is very good:

"AP's response to all those social media stories about Chinese scientists fleeing the USA in droves."

How could an honest analysis fail to mention the above issue in this article?

A virtual witch hunt is being carried out in the US against Chinese scientists. Hundreds have been investigated for ties to the Chinese government. Over a hundred have been fired. However only a tiny fraction were actually proved to have violated the questionable standards set by the US.

The most famous case is the suicide of Jane Wu in July, a neuroscientist at Northwestern University, who lost her lab and was placed under enormous pressure.

For now there are no such witch hunts in Japan. Let's hope that Japan never imitates the US.

@Baradzed

It seems so. All fleeing with money not a west engineer like me could obtain through normal work and investment. Japanese are corrupt when it is about money.

Japanese politicians are very rich and profit from the general population which is so polite as to never demonstrate against them.

Learn that a Chinese can't flee without passport given only to a few. As I view Chinese everywhere in the world, they remain with acquaintances in China and never detached.

quercetumToday 02:18 pm JST

Chiang Kai Shek was well taught by the Japanese and yearned a lot from Japan alright.

After picketing US aid, he and his corrupt KMT officials fled with their tails between their legs to Taiwan and killed an estimate 20,000 plus Taiwanese civilians and erceived political dissidents in the Feb 28th incident and the period known as White Terror.

And Chiang Kai Shek is now rightly reviled in many quarters (though some people, especially KMT-leaning, still support what he did). His statues are being removed, for instance.

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/asia/taiwan-remove-chiang-kai-shek-statues-taoyuan-city-dpp-william-lai-4310711

The key thing is that, in modern Taiwan, the debate about him can be had, and people can learn from history.

But in your beloved China, no debate is allowed, official history is changed at will to suit the whims of the CCP, and Xi is repeating Mao's failures. The intellectuals who are leaving China understand this, and they understandably want out.

quercetumToday 02:31 pm JST

You can ask these Chinese intellectuals who have lived in the U.S. and many of them will tell you the propaganda put out by the Western media and the censorship is way more controlling than that in China.

And many of them won't.

"A passport only given to a few" lol That why more than 100 million travel abroad every year. China is not North Korea.

BellflowerToday 03:42 pm JST

The phrase will make one think of desperate people fleeing a repressive, backward, declining country. Anyone with the slightest knowledge of today's China, anyone who has watched China's spectacular growth over the last 20 years would laugh at it.

And anyone who has suffered China's spectacular regression under Xi would know that "spectacular growth" isn't much use when you're being kept in chains, real or virtual.

And increased GDP isn't much use if your corrupt government pockets much of it, and actively uses this to repress you even more (ubiquitous cameras, facial recognition, e-transaction tracking, social credit system, AI-driven behavior prediction, Hong Kong crackdown, Xinjiang genocide, etc. etc. etc).

A totalitarian dystopia isn't a very attractive place to live, and this is one of the reasons why so many people flee China.

And yet he still murdered a fraction of what Mao did. Without Chiang, China would still be ruled by warlords, perhaps better for the rest of the world.

You have to think for yourself and not just repeat what you’re told.

You acknowledge that Chiang Kai -shel murdered more than 20,000 civilians for political dissent and that he did not learn anything worthy in Japan. The military tactics did not help him either and he lost badly to the Communists. You are in agreement correct? You had zero rebuttal for that but just responded by saying that wasn’t as bad as others. The Taiwanese disagree with you.

Dear Isabella went from somewhat believable to pure hogwash in just a few short months. And the anger issue too. Peace begins with oneself. Self help is best help.

When a government adopts a political policy, they generally later try to show how the policy and idea were effective in achieving its goals. This is to the political advantage and survival of the party. So when we have a situation where the US placed an embargo on Communist China for over 20 years until 1972, it is not difficult to find literature in the US on how the embargo was effective in destabilizing China, including the deaths of many.

There are many factors that contributed to those difficult years that China faced post Civil War, including desperate policies taken, a cultural revolution, an embargo that restricted access to food, medicine, resources and the development of essential technology, not to mention the famine itself. 

Imagine if you were locked in and locked down in your house for a long period of time. No food or groceries could enter your home. You would be forced to eat grass and weeds in your backyard because the food you tried to grow was not enough. Surely a few members of your family will no longer be able to hang on and end up dying. Then the West tells the world you are evil and you killed your own family. 

A medieval castle siege on the continent that is going on with North Korea as well for having weapons that the U.S. have themselves. Mao murdered millions is what they like to say, but blood is still on their hands.

I don't think most are anti-Chinese, more likely anti-CCP. I'm one of them and there's a huge difference.

The CPC lifted 800 million out of poverty according to the World Bank. I don’t think you are anti-poverty alleviation.

The CPC sent 20 million vaccines during the Covid pandemic and 20 million masks to Mexico. I don’t think you are anti-humanitarian aid.

What are you against? Shooting water from water canons instead of bullets in a maritime dispute?

Let’s hear what really bothers you, clamping down of rioters and hooligans like in the UK? Is that what you’re advocating, freedom to fight and destroy shops and property ?

Perhaps not all, but in the early part of the 20th century the US let some pretty good minds come to live here

Yes, many Chinese scientists stayed in USA only to be persecuted. After years, practically all of them have been let off without any charges, but with no apology, compensation or job either. Careers ruined because of 21st century Yellow Peril. At least one has committed suicide.

Many are now returning to China for better positions and pay AND without the threat of racist abuse and persecution.

quercetumToday 04:30 pm JST

And yet he still murdered a fraction of what Mao did. Without Chiang, China would still be ruled by warlords, perhaps better for the rest of the world.

You have to think for yourself and not just repeat what you’re told.

You acknowledge that Chiang Kai -shel murdered more than 20,000 civilians for political dissent and that he did not learn anything worthy in Japan. The military tactics did not help him either and he lost badly to the Communists. You are in agreement correct? You had zero rebuttal for that but just responded by saying that wasn’t as bad as others. The Taiwanese disagree with you.

The Communists were backed by the Soviet Union. It wasn't a fair fight. The CCP disagrees with you that Chiang should be ridiculed or reviled. I am allowed to think for myself that some eggs needed to be broken to secure a Free Taiwan by his son.

quercetumToday 04:33 pm JST

The CCP is still stain on humanity, propping up its worst representatives and North Korea has no need for nukes.

Professor Jia Jia will learn about politeness and being respectful but he’s not going to learn about democracy first hand by being in Japan. What about the US?

Many Chinese intellectuals educated in the U.S. do not support democracy after returning home because the way it is practiced is not really what it’s made out to be. De facto democracy in the U.S. puts power into the hands of a few player industries, not the people.

Other than hearing repeatedly the teaching of checks and balances, separation of powers, freedom of press, all you saw was the manipulation of that in the west.

Whenever there are problems the US can't solve, they bring out LGBTQ transgender issues, abortions, BLM, China, immigration, in order to deflect and redirect the public’s attention. It happens over and over again and nothing gets solved. As soon as you get settled, it’s midterm elections then elections all over again. Wash rinse repeat. Yet the dumb public never gets tired of it.

Without gaslighting, the US democracy will not work. You also have to be able to legitimize elections, which is seemingly becoming more challenging.

quercetumToday 04:42 pm JST

The CPC sent 20 million vaccines during the Covid pandemic and 20 million masks to Mexico.

Call us back once the CCP pays the world damages for unleashing the virus in the first place, denying any culpability, withholding data, and -- still to this day -- refusing any transparent investigation in order to prevent the next pandemic.

What are you against? Shooting water from water canons instead of bullets in a maritime dispute?

We're against China constantly breaking international law - whether that be water cannon, bullets, illegal occupation, or anything similar. It's not a case of "water cannons or bullets," it's a case of legality or illegality.

Let’s hear what really bothers you, clamping down of rioters and hooligans like in the UK?

I assume you're talking about the HK protests?

If so, we're certainly against Beijing and its HK stooges (Carrie Lam, John Lee, and the rest of them) attacking and imprisoning people simply for wanting the rights that were guaranteed to them by the Sino-British Joint Declaration.

quercetumToday 05:08 pm JST

Many Chinese intellectuals educated in the U.S. do not support democracy after returning home

Um... after returning to China, even if they do support democracy they cannot express this freely, or else they will be persecuted/jailed.

Therefore, you (or I) cannot know how many truly support democracy, as some may support it in private, but repeat the CCP party line in public out of fear.

Perhaps you may even be one of these people - who knows.

Japan loves the odd gaijin who makes it in Japan and appears on a TV show. They love the elite gaijin who settles in the country and tells them what a wonderful country they have. These gaijin make them feel good about themselves and their country. But mass immigration with a path to citizenship? Not so much.

Chinese migrants are flowing to all corners of the world, from workers seeking to start businesses of their own in Mexico to burned-out students heading to Thailand.

China should build more factories in Mexico because a) they can save time and money on transportation from Mexico to Mexico's two neighbors to the north rather than shipping across the Pacific. b) they can circumvent the tariffs due to the US Mexico Canada Agreement (think NAFTA).

Mexico is rich with oil, gold, silver, and lithium. It is also right in the backyard of the US. The Soviets placed nuclear missiles in Cuba. China places investments in Mexico.

You can see Chinese companies like Huawei, Xiaomi, BYD and also DD (Uber) in Mexico. One uses military power while the other use economic power.

This also means that you will see illegal Chinese crossing the border into the United States. The US media tells Americans they are the Chinese PLA and spies but they are just factory workers hopelessly thinking the grass is greener on the other side.

Where would I be able to make a better future?The US wins hands down every time!

Oh, the Chinese I know won’t even talk about anything relating to politics in their own country.

It’s uncanny how silent they are…

Where would I be able to make a better future?The US wins hands down every time!

The US is a newbie. It's not a manufacturing power and its oligarchs threw their middle class yoemanry or the Third State under the bus by outsourcing their jobs. It is a first time superpower.

The British Empire only was at the top once time. China has been at the top 4 four times. After each collapse, it seems to have the capacity to learn from history and to rebuild itself. This dynasty is still in its early stages on its way up.

Yeah, I get what you're saying. I have never seen a plane crash. It's uncanny how planes never crash. Plane crashes must not exist.

I don't think you get what he's saying.

What he's saying is that if you criticize the government in China, while you're in China, you won't be doing much more criticizing. Or anything other than disappearing.

quercetumSep. 8 05:08 pm JST

Democracy does exist and China ain't it.

China should build more factories in Mexico

That's fine. Closer to US labor laws and raises their living standards so that we have less migration.

This dynasty is still in its early stages on its way up.

Not based on its property crisis, capital flight, population crisis, and young people "laying flat". China never had to actually contend with an equal power before like it does now.

I guess you have not earned their trust then because many Chinese have very strong opinions about governance (and pretty much everything else under the sky).

Do realize that you are interacting with a very small percentage of the Chinese population, those who have decided to live overseas. The same observation applies to Japanese who go abroad and stay there which is quite a small percentage.

It’s uncanny how silent they are…

They saw how the US stole Russian investments in the US; they realize the same can happen to them.

China is a totalitarian state. Free speech is the first thing to go. If you stood in front of the Nazi headquarters in Berlin and criticized Hitler and you would quickly find yourself in a concentration camp. Likewise, if you criticized Mussolini in Rome or Stalin in Moscow. And what do we think happens to someone in Beijing who publicly and loudly criticizes the CCP?

That's the fallacy of appeal to ignorance as I have shown. If I don’t hear criticism of the government in China (silent) then it must not exist

No, it's me telling the truth. Our company did a lot of business in China, but we started pulling out around 2014. I've spent a lot of time with mainlanders, and if you get them at the right time and place, you get the real stories of China.

Try saying "Mao sucks" in public in China. It's like the parting of the red sea.

They saw how the US stole Russian investments in the US; they realize the same can happen to them.

Its called harvesting or just plain robbery.

The US can't depot Chinese people back to China. China won't accept them back if they know the person was sought status in the US.

China is a totalitarian state. Free speech is the first thing to go. If you stood in front of the Nazi headquarters in Berlin and criticized Hitler and you would quickly find yourself in a concentration camp. Likewise, if you criticized Mussolini in Rome or Stalin in Moscow. And what do we think happens to someone in Beijing who publicly and loudly criticizes the CCP?

Try saying "Mao sucks" in public in China. It's like the parting of the red sea.

Life must be hard in China. They are not allowed to yell "Mao sucks" in Tiananmen Square. Free speech does not fail to exist just because one chooses not to express one’s own opinions in such a manner.

The common Chinese is more interested in their lives, their jobs, their family, earning money, and so on, more than protesting in front of abortion clinics or on college campuses about the more than 40,000 lives lost in the massacre in Gaza. The commoner is not the best source of information on China.

The macroeconomists and university professors can articulate freely their views but there is a bit of a disconnect with the working class and detachment from reality.

Our company did a lot of business in China, but we started pulling out around 2014. I've spent a lot of time with mainlanders, and if you get them at the right time and place, you get the real stories of China.

The better source, imo, are these elite businessmen on the ground who can help you understand the problems at the local level and who can zoom out to connect that with the bigger problems the CPC faces. I can give a few examples. Without these dialogues, one will not gain understanding or ever move past beyond posting “Betcha can’t shout ‘Down with Xi Pee Pee!’” This is as Arkansas or Appalachia as you can get.

Dialogue with businessmen in China will reveal problems such as the widening wealth gap which is not unique to China but exacerbated by Chinese capitalism. It is not a real problem to me but more a basic problem of capitalism itself.

Another issue is how policies, while not capricious, are abrupt, change and become unstable. The CPC went into the JD Vance mentor Yale professor Amy Chua Tiger Mom mode and cracked down on the video and smartphone gaming industry (they should be studying, what are doing playing games?) and the private tutoring and cram school industries (only the Haves can afford to send kids to Sapix, Toshin and Waseda Academy jukus. The Have Nots cannot). Such draconian measures are extreme and kill off hundreds if not thousands of companies. This makes the investment sector diffident and hesitant not knowing what the government might do next. 

The high costs of running the government is a topic businesssmen will agree with Trump, Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy. The bureacracy in Kasumigaseki 霞が関 and Zhongnanhai 中南海 needs to be pared down. Many are lazy and inefficient but nothing compared to post offices in the US or the lines at the Department of Motor Vehicles. How long are you going to wait in line to vote on Nov 5th?

China has a beautiful balance of transparency in the CCP. If you lack transparency, no matter how well read and accomplished one is, there is risk in adopting the wrong policy, but if there is too much transparency, you run the risk of having the oligarchy hijacking and hacking the system like in the US and drowning in the lake of lobbyists. It's a double edge Tang dynasty sword 唐劍.

Lastly, perhaps years down the line, there will be a problem with the transition of power. Will the next President after X be able to maintain stability?This is not a problem the US has because no matter which party is in the White House, the elite oligarchy seem to be in power (wars continued without interruption by design under Bush and Obama), except for DJT, that's when you might see more bullets flying.

quercetumToday 12:09 pm JST

Free speech does not fail to exist just because one chooses not to express one’s own opinions in such a manner.

And free speech does not exist in China, no matter how you may rephrase things and try to appeal the "benefits" of China's system.

The macroeconomists and university professors can articulate freely their views

No, they can't. Any macroeconomist, university professor, academic, "common Chinese" or other person that publicly states a view that is contrary to the CCP's will be persecuted.

Here is one very famous example of such an academic. The present situation has only gotten worse under Xi.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liu_Xiaobo

The commoner is not the best source of information on China.

It really doesn't matter. Free speech is still not allowed in China, no matter who you are.

China has a beautiful balance of transparency in the CCP.

Thanks for the laugh. That's a good one.

quercetumSep. 9 12:09 pm JST

Life must be hard in China. They are not allowed to yell "Mao sucks" in Tiananmen Square. Free speech does not fail to exist just because one chooses not to express one’s own opinions in such a manner.

Yeah if only every country intimidated its citizens into towing the party line.

if there is too much transparency, you run the risk of having the oligarchy hijacking and hacking the system like in the US

Yeah how dare people want to know what backroom deals go on in the completely unaccountable party.

I see that you think if there are cases of censorship in China that leads to your conclusion that there is no free speech. Based on your line of thinking if there is censorship in someway, and there is, your conclusion is there is no free speech in the West which is not true.

There are many cases where videos of Chinese professors taken down in YouTube but their content remains in China. It takes more critical thinking than to jump to extreme conclusions.

It's a faulty generalization, specifically an inductive fallacy: One supporter is radical, therefore all supporters are radical. If a dissident's speech is stifled, then all speech critical of the government is stifled. You can read online, listen to contents of thousands of content creators and their opinion of what and how the CPC should handle the Philippines, Taiwan, US sanctions.

if there is too much transparency, you run the risk of having the oligarchy hijacking and hacking the system like in the US

Yeah how dare people want to know what backroom deals go on in the completely unaccountable party.

Transparency here includes access to government → cozy relationships between government and ___.