Foreign tourists in Kyoto reminded of etiquette via smartphones

Oh, good grief! Do Japanese ever grow tired of telling people what to do? Just stop accepting foreign tourists and the problems are over. Not everybody is Japanese! Not everybody reads Japanese! Not everybody understands Japanese culture! It's called, cultural diversity. You want all these people to come from all over the world to spend their money, but you expect them to be Japanese. It reminds me off my ex-wife! What's next? Tourists will have to pass a Japanese culture test before they can enter Kyoto? Get used to it or give up on the foreign tourist's money.

@ disillusioned

word my brother, word.

disillusioned- EXCELLENT POST! Agree 100% brother

No worries, I just flooded emails to boycott Kyoto and called as well speaking directly with over 100 travel agencies with the above "tourists not wanted" in Kyoto. Too easy. There are other locations to see or visit in Japan that love to have photos taken. They were more than happy to oblige and have removed this spot from their listings. Nice.

Very soon foreigners will figure it out and stop coming. There are far more fun destinations where one can understand the language, the food is better and the whole thing could be more affordable too. To the Japanese, Omotenashi comes on their own terms !

Read and see to follow etiquette doesn't work; better to know the feelings and communicate with Japanese people to get the real etiquette. Especially the typical place like Kyoto, outsiders from other places are not accepted if you don't feel it...It's not only for foreigners but to Japanese people, too!

disillusioned et al

Well, would you like strangers wandering into your home taking photos as they go?!

Perhaps tourists would not be as rabid if Kyoto and JTO did not sell them an image of Kyoto being remarkably Japanese with must-see Japanese things like geisha. Over ninety five percent of Kyoto is the same grey Japanese city you see all over the country. It means that the remaining few Japanese bits cop all the flak without necessarily getting much of that lovely revenue.

If some of the few wabi-sabi bits are private homes, then yes, they will still get it but with no personal gain. The same happens worldwide. Japanese people themselves walking into private gardens in the Cotswolds etc. Those people have gone all the way to England and yes, they must have photos of stone cottages and rose gardens.

WTF is wrong with the people commenting here ?

So you guys think it is okay to take pictures of people withouth asking ? If I am not mistaken this is forbidden pretty much everywhere in the world as everyone has the rights on his/her picture and usually it is only allowed if the Pic doesn't especially show you but a group of people or a Panoramic view and you just "accidentaly" are in it.

Same as trespassing ... forbidden everywhere, in some countries they would just shoot you !

and destroying the property or disrupt the order because of lieing on the street or whatever isn't something you are supposed to do anywhere in the World not just Japan.

even tourists should be forced to use common sense ! and if they don't do they have to pay up or in the worst case go to prison for a few days plus get on a red list to not be allowed to enter the country again.

(not talking about accidentaly doing something which could be seen as wrong but stuff that is common sense and pretty much the same in most parts of the world .... )

Surely, apart from entering homes, aren't the tourists behaving just like Japanese? They seem to be behaving very much like the smartphone and camera-toting Japanese tourists in foreign lands. Is taking photos of geisha worse than taking photographs with a flash in art galleries and churches, photographs of a friend doing a peace sign in front of a famous building, or photographs of food in a restaurant?

Do many maiko and geisha speak English or Chinese or is the foreign tourist expected to ask in Japanese?

My advice to tourists would be never ask for permission to take a photograph of a Japanese person as they will probably say you can and pose doing a peace sign, and then you probably won't want to take the photo.

Living near Edinburgh, a tourist place in some ways like Kyoto, I know many Edinburgh citizens wished there were similar guidelines for tourists here. Some locals have even published their own guides. Here are a couple:

https://inews.co.uk/opinion/edinburgh-fringe-2019-a-tourists-guide-to-how-not-to-act-in-scotland-496865

https://www.buzzfeed.com/caoilfhionnmaguire/edinburgh-advice-for-a-tourist-from-a-local-103nc

Japanese people themselves walking into private gardens in the Cotswolds etc.

I've heard many houses in the more popular Cotswolds tourist destinations have signs in Japanese saying "Private house. Please don't enter" on them. No problem with that and no problem with Kyoto residents doing the same.

if they don't do they have to pay up or in the worst case go to prison for a few days plus get on a red list to not be allowed to enter the country again.

Put tourists in prison and deport them for taking photos of geisha in the street? That's a really good idea....

What Kyoto desperately needs is a service like this for driving etiquette. Having lived in several parts of Japan I can safely say Kyoto has by far the worst driving manners of any city I have lived in. The drivers are rude, aggressive and just downright dangerous, with speeding, texting and running red lights the norm. Use this system to remind Japanese drivers of road etiquette and we might do something useful like save lives.

There are already people to remind people not to do "Unauthorized entry to homes and property damage". They even have a special number, 110, they are the Police. A phone app isn't going to discourage people who do this. Although, I have my doubts that it is common.

When my mixed-heritage kids were little, they frequently had their photos taken by Japanese people.

Almost none of those people asked for permission.

Given that the subjects were children, I thought it was much worse behavior than tourists taking photos of a maiko, etc.

Actually, the maiko thing was on TV last week. They had some ojisan running around screeching "No photo please, No photo please..."

It was laughable.

As mentioned above, they want the tourists' money but do little or nothing to accommodate the tourists. Or even start refusing tourists.

It leaves a very bad taste... are the Japanese so money-grubbing??

Couldn't they use a bit of imagination to solve the problem?

The city could employ "instagram maiko" who look exactly like normal maiko but are photograph-able. They could be identified by a badge or something. They walk around Kyoto being friendly to tourists and having their picture taken.

It might might be a very popular baito for young Japanese women.

Tourists would soon learn that you can only take pics of maikos with the badges.

But it would mean Kyoto spending a bit of money for the tourists' sake so it won't happen.

It seems some posters think it's okay to photograph people without asking. I'm a retired advertising exec who knows Canadian law about publishing photos of people. I'm also an avid (and published) travel writer and photographer who spends a lot of time in Japan (15,000 photos, so far). I always, without fail, ask for permission, and in Japanese. I've only been turned down once. And as for the peace sign, fewer than 5% of those shots are of people making that gesture, so who cares?

All foreign tourists are correct, what ???.the kyoto people wants to take our money and tell us what to do too???. Lets travel to other parts of Japan. Kyoto is just a hype. I live here and i do not want to go to Kyoto as i no more see anything interesting any more ???.

What happened to "motenasu society"? First, just this weekend a JAPANESE man bumped into me while staring at his smart phone. Do they tell him, too? He was coming out of the station exit as I was going in at about 10:00 p.m., so I'm assuming he is a Kyotoite.

Whatever Kyoto is full of self-entitled snobs. I'm just surprised they don't call it "Kyo-manners" and claim Kyoto is the birthplace of etiquette.

How hypocritical! Pretty much every other Japanese person I see can’t follow their own etiquette or rules. They’re either walking looking down on their phones, riding their bikes whilst on their phones, driving and look down at their phones and so on.

How are they reminded? Are they forced to login a website or something?

I'm not sure it's possible to comply with item #4, because a geiko will not interact with someone that's not a client (or person she's seeking a service from, like a taxi driver). I remember a time when a tourist tried to get a geiko's permission to take a photograph and accidentally blocked her - the geiko ended up being quite distressed because she couldn't say anything to resolve the situation. I had to step in and just tell the tourist to take the photo and move on.

A better request would have been not to try to take close-ups or selfies with them. That's rather invading their personal space.

Sounds like the geisha should have a bodyguard. If you can get a photo of her without impeding her progress, great. If you get in the way, you get bounced. You get touchy, you get “touched” back.

As was suggested, geisha for photos would be a good idea. I fact, the Kyoto government doesn’t have to OK it. You could dress up and set up a stand, have a ticket seller and take photos. How much would people pay?

Not really sure what the fuss is about.  If another culture doesn't want people doing XYZ, and actually says it, and puts out notices of what not to do, why get upset?

Why not just ask, and if 'No', then no?

Japan explaining etiquette about taking pictures? What a joke!

I almost fight tenth of times in playground with Japanese people shooting 100 times my blond young daughters playing on the slide.

@zichi

No you can not just take pictures of people just like that at least in Europe it is forbidden as you have your personal rights and new European law makes this even harder then it was already !

as I said only if you want to take a Panoramic picture or something like this it is more or less okay if there is someone in the pic but if you focus on a person withouth his/her permission you do a criminal act.

Japan explaining etiquette about taking pictures? What a joke!

I almost fight tenth of times in playground with Japanese people shooting 100 times my blond young daughters playing on the slide.

You are right to fight with them, just as Kyoto is right to ask tourists to not do the same. Things have gotten out of hand.

Here is a snippet of US law: It is legal to photograph or videotape anything and anyone on any public property, within reasonable community standards.[44]

Photographing or videotaping a tourist attraction, whether publicly or privately owned, is generally considered legal, unless explicitly prohibited by a specific law or statute.

UK and Aussie laws are similarly. Basically if you are in a public place or even a private place where you can be photographed from someone standing in a public place then you are fair game. Etiquette vs legality is another matter.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photography_and_the_law#Public_property

Welcome to Japan...

Here's what you can do to annoy the locals.... (see above)...

But look on the bright side, when drunk, you can pee where you like without too much shame.

So Japanese people don't use tourist information apps, and if they do, they inherently know not to break any of these 'rules'?

therougouToday  09:57 pm JST

The Geishas are a promoted tourist attraction to make money in Kyoto. Not my daughters!

As was suggested, geisha for photos would be a good idea. ...Sounds like the geisha should have a bodyguard.

All that has already existed for decades. You may take the subway or share a table at the ramen shop with a sumotori, a star Takarazuka girl boy, a tarento, a baseball coach, a Prime minister... not with a geisha. Whenever they are costumed, Kyoto's maiko go around by taxi, with staff escorting them. Back in the time that was because they were unable to walk much in the outfit. But in recent years, they get paparazzi rush for the 2 meters they need to walk to enter hairdresser / restaurant / house. If more tourists join the stupid chase that makes useless riots. Useless because they are not hiding like Greta Garbo. They can be seen at many seasonal events (stage artists is their day job) and they pose for photos. The tourist office organizes many short meetings for foreign tourists. That's the first page I found :

https://www.veltra.com/en/asia/japan/kyoto/ctg/181541:maiko_performance/

I'm not sure it's possible to comply with item #4, because a geiko will not interact with someone that's not a client

Yes. Be a client. They are still very accessible.

Photographers Rights in the UK

It's not Europe. You won't find photographers rights in France, for they have none. That's why the Middleton does her suits here. The right is the privacy and quietness of the person, the image control for a business /public space. OK, most people don't care being in the background of your holiday photos. But in famous touristic spots where instagram brought such a crowd , inhabitants feel harassed as their houses -and their family- get shot all the time. So now, you can get fines for disturbing them.

As I recall, the adage is "When in Rome do as the Romans do," not "When in Rome do as you do at home.

Those who are complaining that Kyoto people are being stupid, OBVIOUSLY do not live here. And probably are guilty of doing stupid things. I live here and the amount of time I have seen people from the USA and CHINA doing disrespectful things within Kyoto is beyond me. They IGNORE signs that say "do not take photos", they CHASE geiko down the road, they CLIMB and SIT on sacred things. They have no common sense at all.

if you don't like those rules. Then don't come to Kyoto. You won't be missed. Kyoto don't need disrespectful whatsits like you.

This should really come as no surprise. As most of you ought to know, Japan has a massive gaijin hangup and needs its regular fixes of news that show how badly foreigners are screwing up their country and corrupting their incredibly unique heritage. This will help them keep that needed feeling of superiority and put things right again. You should also know that no Japanese has ever done any of the things listed in the article because, well, they just don't do things like that or make mistakes.

Indeed. I'd love to see a study of national "news." I suspect we would see an average of several such worn out "news items" per week when tallied. Yawn.

That said, I once witnessed numerous tourists swarming and invading the personal space (less than a meter) of a pair of children (likely 3 and 5) dressed in kimono to snap their picture. The parents were some distance away and did nothing to intervene, but at times the children looked quite nervous.

I thought both the tourists' and the parents' action/inaction inappropriate, even reprehensible.

@Selene

As others said, if you do not want any cultural clash you cannot promote mass tourism.

Kyoto city is mainly responsible for this issue.

Then I agree that basic decency is expected from anyone anywhere. Unfortunately there are stupid people everywhere in the world including Japanese people.

I have seen people from the USA and CHINA doing disrespectful things within Kyoto

Once, a long time ago, I was sitting in a pub in Covent Garden in London having a quiet pint of beer when a Japanese tourist walked in to the pub taking a video on his camcorder and then zoomed in on me and video-ed me for a while.

I thought it was a bit disrespectful but I didn't get too angry about it. After all, I thought, these Japanese are spending money in London so we should be grateful for that at least.

The fact is the Japanese have been taking videos and photographs all around the world, both respectfully and disrespectfully, for several decades.

Now that they're the ones being video-ed and photographed... well, it's quite interesting to observe their reactions.

The nasty snarling reactions of some them aren't pretty though.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with this reminder, and any country has the right to instruct foreigners on proper etiquette. Venice for example has had tensions for many years between locals and tourists, to the point some tourists were kicked out of the city altogether recently for brewing coffee near a bridge.

But many Japanese don't follow cell phone etiquette either. I am surprised at this.

@oldman_13

I fully agree with you but unfortunately I do not believe this is possible with mass-tourism tours visiting 20 sites across the country with different cultural sites/etiquettes within 3 days.

Proper foreign language ability from tour operators is probably deficient too.

Bottom line is that Kyoto city need a proper tourist plan and resources in place to manage it, not just blaming tourist lured with Geisha pics all over the world.

Tired of Japan acting like its the first country to deal with tourists.

More popular countries around the world deal with tourists without the constant whining.

When in Rome do as the Romans do. Show respect, obey rules.

In a questionnaire survey on tourists' behavior that covered a group of local residents, bars and restaurants in August and September last year...

...

...according to the group.

they,re part of the same thing...

"beware of those "gaijin", they come from we "don,t know where", they have no decency, no respect, and while we don,t know and don,t wanna know why they,re awestruck and behave like that, they,re bothering us and those immaculate and innocent maiko. leave your money and then go away". unfortunately this is the mindset of many Japanese people in Kyoto. no need for big speeches to explain the obvious. and this is not being anti-Japan, it,s actually the opposite - addressing the issues in Japanese society and hoping for a future where Japanese can be more tolerant and not so uneducated, ignorant towards different people/cultures and foreigners who actually choose to spend their precious time and money to go to Kyoto or anywhere in Japan (sure, other countries have the same issues). and sure, there are stupid people everywhere (including Japanese), but that kind of mindset and ignorance still present in Japanese society should be fought asap.

Disillusioned

You would be right, but for one kinda important thing:

Some, not many, but some, tourists are completely out-of-line. By anyone's standard. It really has gotten out of hand.

In the US, we don't have an "expectation of privacy," but we (well most of us -- not celebrities or other "public figures.") do have the right not to be harassed. It the way we frame the problem of when someone get's into another person's face, won't stop and won't go away. No matter where you go on this planet, every human society has a rule against that.

My wife is from Kyoto. I return every year. I've seen the problem of tourists harassing geiko and maiko get worse and worse. It really has become unsupportable.

Especially the typical place like Kyoto, outsiders from other places are not accepted if you don't feel it...It's not only for foreigners but to Japanese people, too!

It's not about being accepted. Japanese are famous for the whole uchi/soto thing, and Kyoto is no different. In fact, in my experience, people in Kyoto understand and accept that their city is, well, kinda famous with lots of great places to visit, and are if anything quite proud of that fact and want to share it.

The main problems as I understand it through my in-laws and staying in touch with the local news and gossip is twofold:

Trespassing and

'boorish' manners, which the article references.

I grew up in a tourist town a few blocks away from a popular restaurant and bar and experienced the same above two problems every single weak (and even worse on occasion) during the tourist season, and holidays: People wandering into our yard and peeing. People throwing empty beer bottles all over the place. A few times, people smashing into either my dad's or my brother's car, and driving off. I still don't like Taco Tuesday because of it. The point? As a kid coming up, hated the tourists because some, not all, but some acted atrociously. Our neighborhood took steps to ameliorate the more egregious offenses, but it continues to be a problem to this day.

So, I guess what I am saying is, yes, there are small-minded, conservative, culturallly bigoted and racist Japanese in Kyoto who believe their city is sacred, and foreigners who wonder off the beaten path of the shijo /Golden Temple circuit are by definition polluting their lived-in museum. I've met them.

But, again, in my experience, those kind of people are the distinct minority and most want their city to be the bustling tourist town that it is, 'cause money and they are proud of Kyoto, but have legitimate concerns with some behavior of some foreigners.

Too bad if you don't have a 'SmartPhone!'

Yes. Be a client. They are still very accessible.

Eh? 99.9% of people can't be a direct client, because they don't know anyone who is already a client.

The only way normal people can privately interact with a geiko is via an agent. This used to be obscenely over-priced, so to say they are "still" very accessible doesn't make any sense.

I will admit that I'm pleasantly surprised some establishments have undercut the ludicrous prices originally charged to outsiders, but it's still a lot of money that people may not feel they can afford.

The fact is the Japanese have been taking videos and photographs all around the world, both respectfully and disrespectfully, for several decades.

LOL back in the bubble years when Japanese had money to travel youd see busloads of them with their camera taking photos of anything that moved and didnt. Now its basically the Chinese that have taken their place and Japanese are now getting to understand what they were like 20~30yrs ago

To those who are against the Japanese ideas and favoring the tourist,

Will u and your wife, kids, relatives be happy if some tourist circle around your property, taking pictures, littering, making noise etc. ? How long can u tolerate? How long u keep saying your own neighbors also do that?

When it says tourist, most people think 'White' but there are Indians, Muslims, Blacks. But all these comments are favoring white tourist only, not other races. And if these races circle around your property, you will be the first in the line to ban the tourist to your area.

It's fair, when in Rome do as Romans do.

I can't believe the amount of entitlement here in this comment section. You say Japan wants foreigners money without foreigners, but all I see are foreigners who wants Japan without the culture.

American here. One summer my family and I were driving through Kentucky and we stopped to buy some souvenirs from the Amish. When we were leaving I started to take pictures of them when they politely asked me NOT to take pictures because it was against their rules/culture. We said okay and left. One of my number one pet peeves is Americans ALWAYS thinking they can dictate to other cultures what they want to be accepted. If you do NOT like the Japanese rules of etiquette, kick rocks and take YOUR s*itty attitudes elsewhere. The Japanese will NOT miss YOU OR your tourism dollars.

When visiting any country I am on my best behavior and obey instructions. My advice to visitors is be on your best behavior and obey instructions.

Japan's aggressive tourism campaign is the source of this problem. Stop advertising to visit Kyoto.

If the Kyoto city government will put up signs most people will comply. The ones that do not comply...shikata ga nai.

The reminder would be valid just anywhere on the planet. Can anyone tell me what touristic area would be happy to have instagramers standing in the middle of roads blocking traffic, home intruders, people defacing properties and harassing photogenic locals ?

t's still a lot of money that people may not feel they can afford.

If you can't pay 30 dollars, you cannot make the trip to Japan, by definition. You are looking for excuses for shameless celeb stalkers. Do you think I can go to the US and chase Bradley Cooper in the streets or maybe trespass his property ? I mean they lure female tourists with him. It's your logic, no ?

@Disillusioned

Nail on the head, brother. I swear, I think they do this on a global scale with pop-culture and stuff and non-japanese people do not even realize it. God forbid they step out of their comfort zone a bit.

It seems the japanese can do all kinds of things from peeing in public outside, taking up space on the trains, groping, and damn near anything they want,.. but if a foreigners were to do 1/4th of any of those things, they got attacked for it. but yet they still want that money pouring in, though. that passive aggression strategy they use is getting old and they should try to learn to understand other people's cultures and customs. If not, they don't have to have people from abroad enter. Why not go back to the Edo period. See how that will work out for you.

 Do you think I can go to the US and chase Bradley Cooper in the streets or maybe trespass his property ?

Actually, if Bradley Cooper is in public then yes, you can take pictures of him. The laws are quite clear on this subject. It is these laws that allow media photographers and paparazzi to take photos of celebs all the time, from them leaving the airport to them overflowing their Speedos while on a beach in Ibiza and not caring or whatever.

Also, a geisha in costume can easily be seen as a public figure and performer. As such, as long as they are not being impeded or harassed, then taking their picture would be seen as perfectly fine by many countries.

Come to Kyoto and spend your money and pay the taxes but don’t take photos?

Why come at all then....

There is an easy way to tell the Maiko for the ordinary girls in Kimono in Gion Machi. The ordinary girls in Kimono all have selfie sticks. They bunch up in the middle of the road to take pictures of themselves, thus blocking traffic.

Since they are not foreign tourists they can get away with it.

Funny... when I went to Kyoto with a Japanese family, the family took plenty of photos of geisha and sumo. There wasn't a problem then.

Conversely, I have had a camera shoved in my face by people I barely know hundreds of time while working in Japanese schools (glad I got out of those toxic places). However, I was not permitted to take photos of my own at those schools.

Japan still has no grasp of what constitutes 'hypocrisy'...

Visiting Kyoto during the snow winter is very rewarding with less overcrowding except for the New Year week.

Yes, visiting Kyoto during the colder months is better, but you have to take your shoes off at so many sites. I almost froze at Ryoan-ji while trying to enjoy the rock garden with no shoes on!

Shouldn't the same etiquette rules apply to Japanese people too?

Italy is not only warning tourists about unacceptable behavior but fining or expelling them for it.

https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/rome-tourist-rules-italy-topless-ban-water-fountains-love-padlocks-fines-a8951766.html

https://www.lonelyplanet.com/articles/venice-tourist-rules

Many articles in English have appeared on this. I find it very odd that no one has mentioned the Italian case.

Why is it acceptable for Italy to police tourist behavior but unacceptable for Japan to do so. If there is any racism involved, it is on the part of those condemning Japan in this venue.

Local residents are complaining about the tourists taking pictures of the geiko and Maiko? Who are they to say? Why is it their business? Every maiko and geiko I have spoken to personally say they do not care if people take photos of them. They just don't want to be touched. That was their biggest complaint.

What are kyoto people thinking ???.

This is japanese tatemae & horne ???.

Ridiculous! Japanese are the worst offenders everywhere.

I have lived in Japan for most of my life and am a Japanese-speaking Japanese citizen with a deep love of and interest in the bygone culture of the old capital...But tourism has pretty much ruined it--and the greedy tourist industry is more to blame than ill-mannered tourists...Above, Henny Penny has made an interesting point in comparing the situations in Japan and Italy. As one who has lived in Italy, I can say that the blight of tourism (Italy's #1 "industry") is even worse. But there too it isn't just gli stranieri: In churches there are notices in at least four languages, asking tourists not to wander about during the celebration of mass. The great majority of those who ignore such requests are Italians....The only remedy is to stay away from "popular" destinations.