Gov't sat on U.S. data showing radiation spread after 3/11 disaster

Well I am for one and just shocked! SHOCKED!

No links to the data? Or even a map?

News that Japan’s nuclear watchdog and the science and technology ministry sat on the information... They may not have understood it, it might have been too technical or contained scientific data that required some technology knowledge? Anyway none are named none are in trouble might just get a new job on the new panel they have the experience now?

Not surprised at all, typical bumbling, fumbling and confusion one would expect from this bunch of bureaucrats and other dick heads in charge.

Those who were not informed or ill imformed should now be sueing these imcompetent fools.

Evidence that the J-gov was sheisty, deceitful, and disregarded the wellfare of the people?? I'm shocked too!!

As long as they find out all that went wrong and take steps that those mistakes are not repeated, I can only welcome these kind of reports.

Hmmm...me thinks that this does not qualify as "news"...however it does qualify as "old news"

Why Japanese people put up with this crap day in and day out is beyond explanation

S

@Blair Herron: Actually the SPEEDI information sat on a fax machine it wasn't delivered to anyone important and if I remember correctly no one even knew SPEEDI existed.

METI conducts Nuclear Disaster Drill once a year.

On October 20 and 21, 2010, METI and the former PM Kan did the drill.

http://www.kantei.go.jp/jp/kan/actions/201010/21kunren_genshiryoku.html

No one even knew SPEEDI existed? I don’t think so because “How to provide SPEEDI data” was one of the drills which was written on the agenda.

http://pds.exblog.jp/pds/1/201108/29/84/d0044584_359778.jpg

And this is a really big surprise. NOT. These incompetent fools running the country during this crisis where an absolute disgrace. Its funny all those TEPCO and J government backers that used to abuse and critisise people for being worried when this happened where are they now? They are all suddenly quite as more truth comes out.

Why Japanese people put up with this crap day in and day out is beyond explanation

You took the words right out of my mouth. I dont understand it. I doubt this will even be on the news tonight.

They may not have understood it, it might have been too technical or contained scientific data that required some technology knowledge?

I doubt that. It was probably overlooked because it was not from Japanese sources; or because they were just incompetent idiots.

And this is a really big surprise. NOT.

Exactly! Japan just wasn't ready to deal with the coinciding triple disaster. I wonder which country would have...

Clemens Simon

Exactly! Japan just wasn't ready to deal with the coinciding triple disaster. I wonder which country would have...

Yes so its so much better to lie and hide the truth from the public that is a much better approach

Clemons Simon - the first two disasters? can't be helped. The daiichi disaster? Only in Japan.

Nothing new here. Par for the course.

Typical stuff that gets rolled out time and again.

Always better to have zero expectations.

Is it me or is everything going to be dated like 9/11 where this is the "3/11" disaster now? Not a commonly used term is it. More like "Fukushima Disaster" "Tsunami" etc etc, but "3/11" the media......

Cletus, the article says:

The information was passed to the Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency (NISA) and the science and technology ministry by Japan’s Foreign Ministry but neither agency passed it to the prime minister’s office, which was overseeing the evacuations.

Not sure why you jump to the conclusion that this constitutes "lying and hiding". The way it reads is that the agencies failed to pass the data onto the PM. Where does it say that this was done on purpose (with malicious intent)? If that what you claim is indeed the case then I'm all with you and would condemn those two agencies as well.

All foreign governments were correct in saying 80km and not Japan's 20km's!

Clemens Simon

Not sure why you jump to the conclusion that this constitutes "lying and hiding".

Well they have been caught out telling porkies during this disaster. And hiding, well they withheld information on more than one occasion that has been since made public. Or are you forgetting all that.

The way it reads is that the agencies failed to pass the data onto the PM. Where does it say that this was done on purpose (with malicious intent)? If that what you claim is indeed the case then I'm all with you and would condemn those two agencies as well.

Well lets see, something as minor as where radiation is heading and its withheld from the PM of the affected nation. That is incompetence or laziness, or stupidity or deniability at its best. How can a government department withhold from the leader of the nation something as critical as this.

As other posters pointed out, the data came from the US and if Japan were to act on that data it would look like they were not in control (even though they were not).

Old news. What's worse... I mean, has the information ever been fully released, or just the fact the government sat on it while they ran around in a panic?

Clemens Simon - its clearly a case of vital information being withheld by beauraucrats from politicians. Is that somehow ok if there isn't "malicious intent"???

Cetus:

Well lets see, something as minor as where radiation is heading and its withheld from the PM of the affected nation. That is incompetence or laziness, or stupidity or deniability at its best. How can a government department withhold from the leader of the nation something as critical as this.

Before you were calling it "lying and hiding". I agree with your new assessment. Incompetence or laziness, or stupidity or deniability at its best. Is there proof of lying or hiding the data on purpose, though? Cause that's what you were claiming at first. Perhaps everything was so chaotic and communication lines were really that bad that the data wasn't passed along. In any case, what purpose would those two agencies have for "lying and hiding" that particular data? Thoughts?

Not that it matters. The entire gov was busy peeing their pants anyhow..

"Japanese authorities failed" Yup. That pretty much sums up all of last year... and then sum.

*some

Clemens Simon

Before you were calling it "lying and hiding". I agree with your new assessment. Incompetence or laziness, or stupidity or deniability at its best. Is there proof of lying or hiding the data on purpose, though? Cause that's what you were claiming at first.

And l stand by that claim. Afterall they have been caught out numerous times now that the truth has been coming out. Maybe you should go back and read some of the initial stories that came out and the statements the Gov and TEPCO made about the situation and contamination and food contamination and just see for yourself.

Perhaps everything was so chaotic and communication lines were really that bad that the data wasn't passed along. In any case, what purpose would those two agencies have for "lying and hiding" that particular data? Thoughts?

Who knows why they did it but their track record in general isnt that brilliant. Its only some diehards that continue to defend their actions...

Clemons Simon - Lines of communication were open and information was clearly withheld by both the government and beauraucrats. Are you actually excusing this criminal behavior?

Cetus:

And l stand by that claim. Afterall they have been caught out numerous times now that the truth has been coming out. Maybe you should go back and read some of the initial stories that came out and the statements the Gov and TEPCO made about the situation and contamination and food contamination and just see for yourself.

Maybe you're right... We're not talking about the initial stories, though, are we? We're talking about this story. Anyway, no use "debating" with someone who has already made up his/her mind especially when said person doesn't even take the time to answer a simple question based on their rather baseless accusations. Are you hiding and lying, by any chance?

Cletus & hoserfella: Is there proof of lying or hiding the data on purpose? Answer me that and I'm on board.

hoserfella:

Lines of communication were open

Really? The article say differently.

The government had previously admitted that it failed to quickly disclose computer forecasts showing the direction radioactive material would disseminate, due to poor internal communication.

But that's of cause also a lie... It's all lies! I see.

To answer your question - no, I'm not excusing criminal behaviour. Now can you pls answer my question. Thx!

Logic does not seem to be anyone's forte in the news industry. This:

"- is likely to add to mistrust of nuclear power just days after the government approved the restart of two idled reactors."

Plus this:

"The information was passed to the Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency (NISA) and the science and technology ministry by Japan’s Foreign Ministry but neither agency passed it to the prime minister’s office, which was overseeing the evacuations."

Should equal this:

"This news is likely to increase the demand for a root and branch reform of the Japanese Bureaucracy. PM Noda has stated that many bureaucrats, including many high-ranking ones, will be finding themselves without jobs or pensions in the next few days."

Well then! What a big surprise this is, NOT! It was the same 40 odd years ago in Minamata. Good on ya J-Gov! You are a bunch lying and conniving donkey's butts that nobody should ever trust! It is no wonder that only 30-40% of the adult population vote cos I wouldn't vote for any of them either!

Many contributors to this JT site have already discussed this subject. Many of us were theorizing that the radiation stuff was going somewhere ... and pretty well said what we now know.

One question out there: Right after the reactors blew their tops I saw a map on TV showing the direction in which the radiation was going ... and it was headed toward the middle and southern parts of California. That was the last I ever saw of that map or of anything related to that story. Wonder if that kind of news was censored somewhere along the way?

And is radiation still "leadking" from those devastated nuclear reactors? Again, we here have to do the guessing work as real, factual information is rather scarec.

Wonder what other "surprises" are out there ...

Clemons Simon - Is there any evidence that info wasn't passed on purpose? By the way, you haven't answered my first question; Are you actually excusing this criminal behavior? Well? I'm still waiting....

Absolutely criminal negligence. Let's see who'll be made to fall on his sword after these 'investigations'. Might get a par for the course sacrifice.

Is anyone really surprised? Why would they even look at it?

As everyone, knows, the radiation that falls on Japan is Japanese radiation, and it is special radiation. It is only comprehensible to a Japanese. Foreigners just can't understand it. Any data by any "scientists" who come from a foreign country is therefore irrelevant.

Clemons Simon! Big news! We can stop all the fussin' and a fightin' cause I just looked in my dictionary to find the meaning of "sit on"; (it sat up there in the headline like a big ol' ripe plum without me even noticing it)

Informal . to suppress; silence: "They sat on the bad news as long as they could."

Well, there ya have it. Voila.

I have answered your question, hoserfella. Can't say the same about you, though. Once more, where is the proof that the agencies deliberately withheld the data? Speculations and fancy theories is all very interesting but without any proof you're just another tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy loon. So...

I don't know about you guys but I feel exhausted hearing about all these cases, lies and BS from the GOJ. All the while not one damn oyaji takes responsibilty for WTF they do. The Japanese people (the majority anyway) should demand responsibility from their government, but they do SQUAT! All is good on the islands, keep SHOPPING people, it's all good. And the populace remember how much they need that latest gadget, handbag or car. Despicable.

As much as politicians are to blame for this latest scandal, ultimately, people get the politicians they deserve. That is the truth. People here (some generalizing going in, I admit) don't care one iota about politics. Had they cared a while back, they might have demanded some transparency from their so called leaders, but they didn't.

Unfirtunately, I doubt people will wake up and turn thus worrying trend around as long as they are a wealthy country. Oh well.

Japan and many Japanese are like the ostrich, hey, stick your head deep, deep in the sand and forget about Fukushima, forget about Tokyo Electric screwing us night and day, oh keep sticking your head in the sand and this will make Fukushima and all of the nuclear reactors here sitting on horrible earthquake faults go away?? For SHAME!!

As everything pubished about 3.11 now : Not new, bad news...

The information was passed to the Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency (NISA) and the science and technology ministry by Japan’s Foreign Ministry but neither agency passed it to the prime minister’s office, which was overseeing the evacuations.

Of course, the Prime Minister and his smart team in their brand new sagyogi were so busy talking on the phone to the guys in the plant to ask them what color were the radiation (that was probably the level of exchanges.... ). He couldn't lose one minute everyday to meet the NISA and science ministry nerds, not even the Foreign Ministry or those pesky foreigners that dared mingling in the affairs of "Japanese sovereignty"... He found time to meet useless obnoxious Sarkozy ( that I'd have just let talk to my kanrinin, she'd have found him a well ironed clean Kan Action Team Suit, ofuro boots, a tin foil hat, 3 onigiri, a bottle of oolong cha, got him a rental car, programmed the navicar to F. plant...anybody could deal with him). But the boss had no time for the Americans that had their army wetting their a... in the tsunami ruins and in the radiations.

Radiation information would have made people upset.

People knew there was radiation anyway. They were upset due to the lack of precise information, the obvious lies, what they "guessed" as being worse than reality. Information would have led to more efficient evacuation. Kan made people move from risky zone to more heavily contaminated zones. That's not as if the information was not available. Now, let's wait for his trial.

Americans released it in English and not Japanese. And since no one in the Japanese govt. understands English, it got tossed in the trash.

Thank goodness for nearby U.S. military aircraft!

well at least the government has taken away all doubt and admitted that they sat on and withheld information. That is a step forward for the usual Kremlin-like secrecy in Nagatacho. But of course, no heads will roll..

Clemens Simon

It pretty much works the other way around (as is clear from the way hoserfella is continuing this "debate" e.g. accusing the agencies of sitting on the data on purpose without backing that claim up with any form of evidence or reason even) but whatever you want to believe...Be my guest and join the masses/sheep.

Clemens, the evidence is there for you to see for yourself if you are willing to open your eyes and look for it. However you seem more intent on focussing your attacks on people who disagree with your position. It is your right to have your opinion just as it is mine to have my opinion. You want proof that you are incorrect well look for it it really isnt hard to find. What is hard to find is proof that the J government didnt hide, mislead (and yes lie) and cover up things that happened during this disaster. And where to busy play CYA to actually do any good during this disaster. Any other country and heads would be rolling, commissions and inquests set up and progress and learnings developed and made. But not here.

gogogoJun. 19, 2012 - 04:09PM JST

All foreign governments were correct in saying 80km and not Japan's 20km's!

No, by the maps themselves, and the fact most goverenments use the WHO standard of 50mSv/yr (rather than 1mSv Japan was using until they figured out that the background dose was twice as high in half the country), the circle is not a circle, rather an ellipse with one focus at the plant and another WNW by about 15km (now a very narrow ellipse). Even in the earliest readings, NISA had preliminary readings from the 15th and very detailed ones on 23rd, most of the area was perfectly fine, especially if you ignored iodine (not a great idea, but fine with the right precautions). In fact, the only reason for a circle was for government convenience, something these reports show plenty of.

LOL... j-gov is it's own worst enemy :) thanks for bumbling this, i hope to hear more reports like this ! anything that sways support away from these idiots!!

this was on ENEnews 2 days ago. Total criminal negligence. Crimes against humanity even. But nothing will come of it. Business as usual. Street lights on at 4:30 in the afternoon.. Start those reactors, man! There is pocket lining to do. Boys be ambitious! Tut! Tut! It looks like rain.

Many people have already made up their mind that the information was withheld on purpose and do not want to even give it the credit of doubt.

In the chaos in the days after the disaster it seems that the one sheet of paper was somehow lost. Inexcusable but regrettably believable. As we have seen so many times people are only human. The chain is only as strong as its weakest link.

There is no proof that NISA and the Ministry of Science and Technology withheld the information on purpose. It has become official that later Kan and his government did so with other equally important data. All things considered I wonder who was lying on purpose.

Such mistakes should be exposed so that they are not repeated time and again. A lot of data and reports based on further analysis will be published from now on.

Cletus:

the evidence is there for you to see for yourself if you are willing to open your eyes and look for it. However you seem more intent on focussing your attacks on people who disagree with your position. It is your right to have your opinion just as it is mine to have my opinion. You want proof that you are incorrect well look for it it really isnt hard to find. What is hard to find is proof that the J government didnt hide, mislead (and yes lie) and cover up things that happened during this disaster. And where to busy play CYA to actually do any good during this disaster. Any other country and heads would be rolling, commissions and inquests set up and progress and learnings developed and made. But not here.

What is hard to believe (for me at least) is that there are people (such as yourself) who believe that they can accuse someone (yes, even an institution such as the Japanes egovernment!) and then demand that evidence is provided to them showing that the accused didn't do that which they stand accused of. Where I come from it's maxim semper necessitas probandi incumbit ei qui agit (the necessity of proof always lies with the person who lays charges).

As I have stated from the beginning, if you can prove that the agencies in question withheld the data on purpose, then I will agree with your statements re: lying and hiding and criminal responsibility and what not. At this stage, though, it is not clear why the data was not passed along to the PM's office.

I don’t know much about the U.S. radiation spewing data , but the followings are the things NSC, MEXT, and NISA said about SPEEDI data.

NSC chairman Madarama said, “Don’t ask me. SPEEDI is under MEXT’s control. If you want to know about SPEEDI, ask MEXT, not me.”

MEXT Watanabe Itaru said, “MEXT is supposed to support NISA. NISA is responsible for SPEEDI.”

NISA Nishiyama said, “NSC, MEXT, and NISA are all sharing SPEEDI data. I don’ think NISA is the only responsible for this matter. "

(source: footage “動画2.情報隠蔽、政府内で責任のなすりつけ合い”)

http://bww.jp/r/%E7%89%B9%E9%9B%86-%EF%BC%8D-%E8%A3%81%E3%81%8B%E3%82%8C%E3%82%8B%E3%81%B9%E3%81%8D%E6%94%BF%E5%BA%9C%E3%81%A8%E7%A6%8F%E5%B3%B6%E7%9C%8C%E7%9F%A5%E4%BA%8B%E3%81%AE%E5%A4%A7%E7%BD%AA/

When DPJ Kawauchi Hiroshi asked MEXT about SPEEDI, MEXT said, “We need prime minister’s approval to disclose SPEEDI data.”

(source: Kawauchi’s FB 9/29/2011)

https://www.facebook.com/pages/%E5%B7%9D%E5%86%85%E5%8D%9A%E5%8F%B2/248245398550506

As I mentioned above, METI conducts Nuclear Disaster Drill once a year. On October 20 and 21, 2010, METI and the former PM Kan did the drill. “How to provide SPEEDI data” was one of the drills which was written on the agenda.

http://www.kantei.go.jp/jp/kan/actions/201010/21kunren_genshiryoku.html

http://pds.exblog.jp/pds/1/201108/29/84/d0044584_359778.jpg

I don’t know if NSC, MEXT, NISA are lying/hiding or just incompetent/lazy/stupid, but former PM Kan has a lot of responsibly for it, too.

Btw, I’m with Clemens here. I would like the source or the links that prove specifically what the agencies were lying about and why.

Clemens Simon

What is hard to believe (for me at least) is that there are people (such as yourself) who believe that they can accuse someone (yes, even an institution such as the Japanes egovernment!) and then demand that evidence is provided to them showing that the accused didn't do that which they stand accused of. Where I come from it's maxim semper necessitas probandi incumbit ei qui agit (the necessity of proof always lies with the person who lays charges).

Clemens, l dont know about your train of thought but given that there has already been questions asked about the information flow coming from the government during this crisis. Remember but a few weeks back Edano the government mouthpiece getting grilled and saying he didnt deliberately mislead the public. So there is a certain amount of suspicion that the government was not as honest and open as it could have and should have been. Then there was the US critisism that the J government wasnt being upfront with its information flow to them. So if you look the information is there. I also recall a story about contaminated meat and the government stating non would make it to the market. Next things we are reading about it being fed to school kids.

So by all means keep defending these useless clowns and their actions. Most sane people will judge their actions rather than their excuses.

As I have stated from the beginning, if you can prove that the agencies in question withheld the data on purpose, then I will agree with your statements re: lying and hiding and criminal responsibility and what not. At this stage, though, it is not clear why the data was not passed along to the PM's office.

Im sorry. Let me say this again. It was a NUCLEAR EMERGENCY. And information about nuclear contamination distribution was withheld (for whatever reason) from the leader of that nation. That is a sick joke that information of that nature is not passed on. And this is not the first time its been admitted that important information was not passed on for whatever reason. So you ask me to prove that the Japanese government are incompetent fools who mislead the people, try reading the news since the event as there are numerous things that have been omitted. bumbled, glossed over etc. But if you want you keep believing that all's rosy and l will believe what l want.

Blair Herron

Your post shows how the responsibility gets tossed from place to place. This is part of the old way (or maybe not so old yet) of working here but at time of emergency it is the reason for numerous failures, mismanagement etc.

I am with you. Kan is responsible for so many things - he was the one on top and in charge but he failed in so many ways.

Clemens, it is indeed nice to see that there are other people who stay objective.

Why else would they withhold the information? Cause they are just nice, caring guys who happened to misplace the most important document they could have possibly received. Right! How long before they admitted there were meltdowns?! Next, you`ll tell us they honestly misplaced that info too.

Obama-san

I beg you! Pls send a marine into Nagatacho & topple the govt & hell even send Mitt over to run things!

I am begging you, seriously! And I am not even American.................

What we have all highly suspected has been proven way way beyond a shadow of a doubt, there is NO ONE in Japan capable to run this place even in the slowest of times let alone when real leadership is needed.

Japan is very clearly way beyond salvageable, it is truly mind numbing just how many incompetents are on these isles, in all areas of govt, truly mind boggling Japan is officially TOAST!!

Japanese authorities failed to disclose U.S. data about the spread of radiation spewing from a crippled nuclear plant last year, a cabinet minister said on Tuesday, leaving some evacuees fleeing in the same direction as the radioactive emissions.

This is beyond incomptent. This is criminal in that it endangered the lives of citizens. I just am so glad I am no longer living my life subject to such behavior. Behavior that has become institutionalized in Japan.

In the chaos in the days after the disaster it seems that the one sheet of paper was somehow lost.

JaneM - If I didn't read it, I wouldn't have believed it was written. You honestly believe this crucial dialogue between two nation-states was hastily written down on a post-it note which then fell between two desks? Oh dear...

Link showing map of radiation:

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/text/nn20120619a1.html

Cletus:

l dont know about your train of thought but given that there has already been questions asked about the information flow coming from the government during this crisis. Remember but a few weeks back Edano the government mouthpiece getting grilled and saying he didnt deliberately mislead the public. So there is a certain amount of suspicion that the government was not as honest and open as it could have and should have been. Then there was the US critisism that the J government wasnt being upfront with its information flow to them. So if you look the information is there. I also recall a story about contaminated meat and the government stating non would make it to the market. Next things we are reading about it being fed to school kids.

I understand your train of thought, I do.

Edano got "grilled" = he must be guilty. The US gov't critisises the Japanese gov't = The Japanese gov't must be guilty. Contaminated food etc. ends up on the market = the Japanese gov't can never be trusted again.

I understand your train of thought, believe me I do.

Why believe those who have lied to you in the past? Why trust those who have betrayed you in the past?

One last question: Why (do you) care so much about those who don't care about you?

Burying this data, in addition to the SPEEDI data... criminals!

zichi: I couldn't agree more!

@GM

way way beyond a shadow of a doubt, there is NO ONE in Japan capable to run this place even in the slowest of times let alone when real leadership is needed. Japan is very clearly way beyond salvageable, it is truly mind numbing just how many incompetents are on these isles, in all areas of govt, truly mind boggling Japan is officially TOAST!!

Then we may have the pleasure of seeing you stand for elections next year?

Or may be not, since this country is way beyond salvageable?

Hoserfella

Oh dear! You.

There was never a dialogue. Just a sheet of paper (not a post-it note as you say it) which was sent in the middle of the "dealing" with a disaster which no body had expected and unfortunately properly prepared for.

Jeeze Louise! I've been TRYING to give the J-Gov the benefit of the doubt on the disaster, I REALLY have! Yet at every turn it seems there were concerted efforts to withold vital data from the public. OK, I give. The J-Gov has lost another person who was sitting on the fence on this. A bunch of people should be facing trial over this last bit of info.

So, these two agencies didn't inform the officials about the findings. Those poor people were trying to get away from the fall out, but unwittingly ran in the same directions. There needs to be some court hearing and some people need to be spending the rest of their days in PRISON! What a bunch of miserable cockroaches these people must be. Why aren't there any criminal charges being filed on these cockroaches???????? This makes me sick to my stomach. I want to see some people going to PRISON FOR SOME SERIOUS TIME.

I am beside myself with disgust. "Sat on" the information while people ran into the same direction. They knew these people were going in that direction, why didn't they at least try to stop them??? Am I to understand that they knew which direction the fall out was going and just sat by and allowed these poor people to go in that direction?

I hate to join the fray, but it really doesn't matter if it was done on purpose or not. They are just different degrees of criminality. Why would they NOT pass that information on to the PM. Personally, I think it was cowardice and short-sighted thinking along the lines of, "We will deal with that problem, when it comes out, if we can't hide it. Let the people do what they want to do. We don't want to start a panic and we don't want to be held responsible". It doesn't matter, OFF TO JAIL.

How pathetic is it that a foreign government (US) puts the vital information out within days of the disaster, while the J-Gov does nothing at all and lets its people just run in the wrong area.

No wonder Japanese people are so apathetic when it comes to voting.

Don't blame the Politicians... blame the Japanese people themselves. Their Shoganai accepting attitude will lead them to ruin and when ruin comes... they'll blame someone other than their own Government. They are their own worst enemies.

Well, and it all happened in highly technified Japan. An important lesson for some third world countries where te prospect of new thermonuclear reactors is marketed as safe, reliable and inexpensive electricity. Regards Raúl E. Viñas

With the amount of money gone into creating speedi in the first place, then at the time of need, it simply was not used is just unfathomable and unexcusable. The fact that 2 separate agencies received the same data, but both chose not to read / disclose / use / consider it to be useful or possibly useful, is just plain ridicuous. And highly unlikely that they independently decided to ommit the data or consider it useless for whatever reason.

I would agree the gov. has nothing to gain from it but at the end of the day, a better basis for evacuation was available, but due to conspiracy / incompetence / negligence people were just evaculated INTO radiation.

Nuclear safety is a cent percent Myth.Nuclear plants are always silent killers.Just as in olden days the imperialists went in search of better lands and prosperous countries to loot them and add to their wealth,business men with entrepreneur skills join nuclear industry and make tonnes and tonnes of money and in the bargain use their national heads of states as commission agents and seduce the heads of poor countries to buy reactors by paying them huge bribes.that is how Britishers ruled over India for decades.Today the western Nuclear lobby has mesmerised even Japanese to buy the riskiest Nuclear power plants by bribing the state and central Government leaders even when the common people are fighting against nuclear plants asit is impossible to ensure safety in the nuclear power plants as analysed by experts under web site,http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/reaction/readings/search.html Japan must be an example for other countries to stop Nuclear plants and save mankind and natural life systems for tghe sake of our future generations prof.T.Shivaji Rao,Director,Gitam University,visakhapatnam

Extremely patronizing attitude from the responsible authorities - in such a stressful and dangerous situation people had the right to know all the relevant facts. Lack of information and conflicting information added to all the stress that people experienced. The authorities' job was to collect, synthesize and distribute widely all the relevant information, not to censor and hide it.

Having said that, it would be really hard to prove that the authorities did not release the information with malicious intent - certainly, nobody wanted to have the people exposed to radiation. However, it is a fact that the authorities did end up withholding this information, so at the very least, this is a case of negligence in an extremely grave situation, with grave consequences.

Someone must be held responsible, or else this attitude from the authorities is very likely to persist. Not only the people who were directly affected, but everyone else should demand a criminal investigation and appropriate charges, so that we do not see similar usurping of power to "cleanse" information. People are not children, but they should fight for their right to know, in court.

As I have been saying, the J-Govt is killing this wonderful nation. They are only in it for themselves--cushy jobs (of all the industries the past 10 years, only govt workers salaries increased right-side up), amakudaris, over-employments with every bell and whistle imaginable (fringe benefits), and a pension scheme better than your average Tanaka. Yet, it is the local citizens who elect the same ol person to office all because of pork-barrel politics.

Where's the data? Get it from the academics actually responsible for the measurements and placements. AtomicInsights.com

Facts, not Hysteria

James Greenidge

The science ministry should have told the nuclear disaster task force to pass on the data to the people. But we didn't think of that.

JT Quote of the Day Jan. 20, 2012 - 06:08AM JST

Science ministry official Itaru Watanabe. The ministry has been accused of betraying its own people by giving the American military information about the spread of radiation from Fukushima more than a week before it told the Japanese public. Watanabe said the government did this to secure U.S. support in dealing with the nuclear crisis. (ABC)

My Quote button does'nt work but if the science ministry would withhold info. I believe they would discard info as well.

The so-called "report" that DoE published which supposedly could have been "useful".

http://energy.gov/downloads/radiation-monitoring-data-fukushima-area-32211

The coloring of the map look like some kindetergarten kid scribbled on it. Helpful? Doubt it. I would of placed more emphasis on the actual reading on the locations and determine the level at milli sieverts/yr and calmly determine the timing and the evacuation area.

"All measurements in this plot are below 0.03 Rem per hour-a LOW LEVEL".

LOL. It's obvious that DoE supplied this data to target the workers/officials within Fukushima Daichi Plant so why on God's earth should the Japanese government use this "coloring" as a basis for evacuation plan?

A decade from now, airborne radiation levels in some parts of Fukushima Prefecture are still expected to be dangerous at above 50 millisieverts a year, a government report states.

As the article states, like Futaba and Okuma where NPP is located. No duh!!

It's time the US government again run Japan alike after ww2 which showed Japan 34 years of miracle growth. The Us were first on the scene for the obon jal crash as well but were not allowed to help.

US Secretary of State issued a warning (maybe ban) that all US citizens flying into Japan should stay outside of 100 km radius from Fukushima on 3/20 while Japanese media and Japanese were criticizing we Americans were over reacting in hysteria.. I remember that very well there were big gaps in media reports between US and Japanerse. So now Japan is telling that we were right then. No surprise.

As the article states but we don't know the full content of the report. There's at least one person on this forum stating there's no problem with any radiation in Fukushima, inside or outside of the no-go zone, and in fact, everyone can return to their homes.

I'm not concerned with what this "one" person claimed. Also, you forgot to mention that this projection is based on the premise that no decontamination work has been done in the area.

As for the map it provided vital information in the first week which the gov't was unable to do until about 14 days after the start of the nuclear disaster.

If the Japanese government implemented the 80km radius evacuation which U.S. advised to their people, there would of been more deaths and injury resulted. I mean, isn't that what some of the Fukushima residents are seeking criminal liability for? And this is just for the 20km evacuation.

The US should have known better, in the future they should just post the information in the Washington Post, New York Times, and LA Times.

I'm quite sure the PM would have gotten the information faster that way, AND more importantly the public too!

If the Japanese government implemented the 80km radius evacuation which U.S. advised to their people, there would of been more deaths and injury resulted.

I always thought that, too. During/After evacuation in Fukushima within 20km radius, there had been 7000 deaths?(no source). What would have been like if all the people within 80km radius had to evacuate? Again, evacuating people within ~radius is wrong. Evacuating according to SPEEDI/US data is better.

I'm sorry, could someone explain this to me?

If the Japanese government implemented the 80km radius evacuation which U.S. advised to their people, there would of been more deaths and injury resulted.

Are we being cynical or something here? Sorry, I don't get if we are saying that a larger evacuation would have resulted in more deaths or not? Maybe it is just my morning brain still being asleep or something. Sorry to have my "Duh" going on!

How would a larger evacuation as the US recommended of the area resulted in more deaths and injuries? I just don't get it. Maybe I just need some coffee.

And another thing.

The article makes it appear that the government was withholding this info when in fact, anybody with an Internet can access this information when it was released.

Secondly, it was reported in Yomiuri that the report was available.

http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/feature/20110316-866921/news/20110323-OYT1T00884.htm

Whether to use this "drawing" as a basis for civilian evacuation versus the actual on site reading and SPEEDI(the updated one with the pertinent measuring device/readings operating), I choose the latter.

I think evacuating people, especially sick people, elderly, pregnant women…, would be very difficult.

Nursing home　Fukujuen in Minamisoma, for example, 26 out of 96 died during/after evacuation. The elderly people including bed-ridden were pushed into the buses without enough medicines and equipment…, took them 10 hours to evacuate. (source:mainichi shimbun, no longer available)

Futaba Hospital in Okuma Fukushima, 45 people out of 440 patients died during/after evacuation. They were also evacuating without proper equipment.

http://www.kahoku.co.jp/spe/spe_sys1071/20111222_01.htm

http://www.asahi.com/special/10005/TKY201103190139.html

Sandiegoluv,

People die in traffic accidents and transporing hospital patients. When we're talking 80km radius, we're covering places like Kooriyama, Fukushima shi, Iwaki-shi,etc which combined would be well over a million.

TOKYO —

Japanese authorities failed to disclose U.S. data about the spread of radiation spewing from a crippled nuclear plant last year, a cabinet minister said on Tuesday, leaving some evacuees fleeing in the same direction as the radioactive emissions.

Why is the name of the minister being withheld?

zichiJun. 20, 2012 - 10:21AM JST

I never mentioned anything about evacuations. The radiation readings and map taken by the Americans should have reached the PM's office and along with the Speedi reading. I have always stated the evacuation should have been carried out according to the level of radiation and not just the distance from the atomic plant.

Yes, this is very true. I assume that they used a circle because it's easier to do on pen and paper than an ellipse or more defined shape. The maps that NISA had from the US (and SPEEDI ones) were very clear and showed absolutely no danger in most of the land mass in the exclusion zone, yet they sat on it and then forgot it. They clearly need to modernize their offices and have that information available to any authorized persons at the click of a button, rather than go from filing cabinet to filing cabinet.

But instead of using and publicizing the data, the technology ministry asked the Foreign Ministry to confirm that the United States approved of the data being made public, Mr. Sato said.

Sounds like a very lame excuse for, "we don't want to use any thing, that's not ours."

That old expression comes to mind, "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink."

@nigelboy. I understand that you feel more people would have lost their lives if a larger evacuation had taken place. Personally. I would have opted to evacuate all people within 8o kilometers, just to be on the safe side. Yes, the lose of life would have been greater but I am wondering if that number would have been something that we could live with. For now we don't really know how many people were exposed to dangerous levels of radiation and how that will affect them. We might be wishing that the government had evacuated larger areas. I am not an expert, I am just saying that that larger evacuations might be something we wished had happened. I pray not.

sandiegoluvJun. 20, 2012 - 03:30PM JST

@nigelboy. I understand that you feel more people would have lost their lives if a larger evacuation had taken place. Personally. I would have opted to evacuate all people within 8o kilometers, just to be on the safe side. Yes, the lose of life would have been greater but I am wondering if that number would have been something that we could live with. For now we don't really know how many people were exposed to dangerous levels of radiation and how that will affect them. We might be wishing that the government had evacuated larger areas. I am not an expert, I am just saying that that larger evacuations might be something we wished had happened. I pray not.

Given the scientific studies available, minimizing the immediate loss of life should have taken precedence over evacuation in all areas except inside the reactor buildings. The levels shown in the maps they sat on, are not harmful unless sustained for long periods (several weeks, but given that iodine decomposes quickly, not an issue with proper precautions) in almost all areas except a very narrow stretch. That stretch is sparsely populated, so it would not be that much of an issue to evacuate the few first.

Given data from past nuclear incidents, tests, and weaponization, the long term effects of radiation in all but a very small stretch of land will be indistinguishable from normal. And with medical advances, the mortality rate will likely be zero. So the government actually let more people die by over-reacting in most places than would have had they used existing data.

Interesting points, basroil. What sources of information can you cite to support that? I am just curious to read that information, as I'm sure a lot of people would be. Thanks.

The effects of short term radiation were linked to in another thread, published by MIT. NISA/US fallout maps are linked above.

The rest of the information can be read at WHO website with some digging, and some of the radiation reports from Hiroshima/Nagasaki are available at various places including WHO.

Interestingly, the Japanese government also knows those reports by heart (except maybe MIT one and of course, fall out maps), and should have properly integrated the information into their evacuation plans rather than ignore absolutely everything they had at their disposal. Considering they had touted 50% nuclear before, you would expect them to be a bit smarter and well prepared to receive emergency reports.

I never mentioned anything,I just provided a link to a gov't report about radiation. Areas with radiation levels of 50 millisieverts/yr won't be decontaminated because workers will be unable to spend enough time there.

Zichi. What you did was basically echoe the headlines while completely ignoring the content of the article in which it states that the area most exclusively that will have levels of 50 mSv/yr are areas where they house the NPP. Not only that, you also fail to mention that the projection map was subject to abssense of any decontamination work which clearly ignores the efforts done by numerous municipalities who are working night and day to reduce the radiation levels.

http://www.jaea.go.jp/fukushima/decon04/ke03.pdf

http://www.reconstruction.go.jp/topics/%E9%99%A4%E6%9F%93%E3%81%AE%E6%96%B9%E9%87%9D%E3%81%AB%E3%81%A4%E3%81%84%E3%81%A6.pdf

As I stated, the maps did in fact reach Kantei but the decision to base the evacuation based on the DoE map would not be wise. The initial SPEEDI report should not be used as well simply because the forecast map was hastly provided without pertinent data especially the radiation level within the Fukushima Daiichi Plant.

Thats all nice and dandy buddy when you have internet access during that crucial time.

Marcelito,

That's not my point at all. The issue that I have with this article is that it makes it though the central government was "hiding" this map when in fact it was not only a "public" information, major Japanese newspaper reported to its availability.

Secondly, there is a reason why radiation exposure is expressed in mSV/yr because the radiation levels in those affected areas did not have immediate impact on the health of the residents when coupled with the fact that the central government as well as the municipalities had already advised people to stay indoors. Conversely, the well being of the residents would have been severly jeopardized if central government ordered immediate evacuation within let's say 80km radius where we are talking about moving over a million residents.

Whatever the real reason was for withholding this and other important information, why in God's name are these people still running this country?!?!?! They're obviously incapable! How hard can it be to show people a satellite image and then tell them which direction not to go in???

unlike you on this forum I have mentioned the decontamination work inside the no-go zone many times but like I have already stated and based on what the government has stated, areas with radiation levels of 50 millisieverts/year and above don't be decontaminated and according to the government people will not be able to return to those places. Areas of high contamination are not limited to inside the no-go zone when there are several places outside of it too.

Nowhere does the second link I provided states that "radiation levels of 50 mSV/year and above won't be decontaminated.

The plan for areas exceeding 50 mSv/Yr are indicated as follows.

まずは本地域内で国が除染モデル実証事業を実施して、効率的・効果的な除染技術及び作業員の安全の確保方法を確立する。その結果に基づき、地域ごとに除染の実行可能性・効果等を明らかにし、避難指示区域の見直し等の動向を 踏まえ、市町村等の関係者と協議し、対応の方向性を検討する。

It states basically that the decontamination work on said areas will be conducted based on the experience and know how of several decontamination efforts in various areas and that methods and safety of the workers insured.

And you didn't state, that largely the decontamination work which will cost more than ¥13 billion, according to the government, is having little effect on radical reducing the radiation levels.

Did you even read the roadmap issued by the government? Where on earth does it say that their plan will have "radical reducing" of radiation levels?

Nigelboy, with the decontamination work you forgot to mention that the first ¥1 billion contract was awarded to the countries top 5 construction companies, the same ones which built all of the nuclear power plants.

And the top 5 companies are working on removal of debris and reconstruction of the tsunami damaged area. Your point?

You also forgot to mention that these companies are using untrained day laborers and nuclear gypsies to do the actual work, and once the nuclear gypsies have used up their "nuke time" at the NPP, they can move over to doing decontamination work but still at the low level no benefits pay.

And your point? The day laborers in the construction industry and their low pay is nothing new in any country. And unlike the regular day laborers, the decontamination workers' hours will be monitored and limited based on the card system

http://blog.livedoor.jp/gnetcom-environmentalpollution/archives/5410764.html

And yes. Yakuza conspired with the operators of Fukushima Daiichi to cause a nuclear meltdown thereby allowing them to make money of day laborers. (sigh) Please Zichi. It was a significant "improvement" when you stopped using Fukushima-diary as your source but you're regressing very rapidly.

Nigelboy,

I don't read the Fukushima Diary, and in fact, most of the blogs I do read,except one, are all pro nuke blogs. I remember the problem of the yakuza and the day laborers was posted here on JT?

The government have stated several times that people from areas with contamination above 50 millisieverts/year will not be allowed to return, so why waste money decontaminating them?

.

I remember the problem of the yakuza and the day laborers was posted here on JT?

I'm not questioning the involvement. I'm questioning the 50% involvement.

The government have stated several times that people from areas with contamination above 50 millisieverts/year will not be allowed to return, so why waste money decontaminating them?

I don't understand your question since the whole point of this decontamination work is to make the area safe for people to live.

All foreign governments were correct in saying 80km and not Japan's 20km's!

US Secretary of State issued a warning (maybe ban) that all US citizens flying into Japan should stay outside of 100 km radius from Fukushima on 3/20 while Japanese media and Japanese were criticizing we Americans were over reacting in hysteria.. I remember that very well there were big gaps in media reports between US and Japanerse. So now Japan is telling that we were right then. No surprise.

I would have opted to evacuate all people within 8o kilometers

I think some people are missing the point here. Evacuating people within ~km radius is not a good idea that’s why US government tried to give Japan radiation spewing data.

I think that evacuating foreigners and evacuating Japanese within 80km radius are quite different things because, for example, the number of bed-ridden foreigners within 80km radius is far less than that of Japanese? There were 2,038,000 residents within 80km radius. Even evacuating 78,000 people within 20km radius was chaotic as elderly people died during/after evacuation. And I believe the U.S. knew that evacuating all Japanese residents within 80km would be very difficult, that’s why the U.S. tried to inform Japan of the radiation spewing data.

Please correct me if I’m wrong, but according to NRC, the U.S. emergency planning zone is 10miles (16km) radius.

U.S. NRC say, “Evacuation rarely calls for completely emptying the 10-mile zone around a nuclear power plant. In most cases, the release of radioactive material from a plant during a major incident would move with the wind, not in all directions surrounding the plant.” What the NRC calls the “plume exposure pathway” has a radius of about 10 miles where there could be an exposure to radioactive materials. If evacuation or sheltering is required, the area might extend beyond the 10-mile radius, depending on local conditions.

During the highest-level general emergency, people closest to the facility would be evacuated first, then public safety officials would make additional decisions to either evacuate people in larger surrounding areas or to order them to stay indoors. “People living in the remainder of the 10-mile zone will most likely be advised to go indoors to monitor Emergency Alert System broadcasts,” the NRC fact sheet says. “The idea of the 10-mile EPZ,” said Perkins-Grew, “is to protect the communities that are closest to the facilities. Public safety officials would make decisions based on conditions to either shelter-in-place or to evacuate or a combination of both. Those same public safety officials have the flexibility, if the event were to be prolonged, to make the same decisions beyond the 10-mile emergency planning zone.”

http://www.nei.org/resourcesandstats/publicationsandmedia/insight/insightspring2012/emergency-planning-zones-help-ensure-nuclear-plant-safety/

According to wall street journal (3/21/2011), even the U.S. nuclear-power industry was questioning the “scientific basis” of the Obama administration’s decision to evacuate U.S. citizens and military personnel within 50 miles radius of the Fukushima NPPs.

Nuclear Energy Institute spokesman Steve Kerekes said the U.S. nuclear industry has "questions about the scientific basis" of the administration's actions. Japan's 12-mile evacuation policy appears "sufficient to minimize public-health impacts," based on available data concerning radiation and dispersal, Mr. Kerekes said. "While they could understand, to some degree, why [the administration] would do that," Mr. Barton told Dow Jones Newswires, NEI staff said the 50-mile evacuation zone "was much more than was necessary."

The Union of Concerned Scientists also criticized the NRC for its 50-mile recommendation, but for different reasons. It questioned how the U.S. could recommend a 50-mile evacuation zone when the U.S. standard for emergency evacuation plans is 10 miles.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703818204576206731116410832.html

I don’t know how many Americans were there, but I think that U.S. knew that it is rather safe and not too difficult to evacuate Americans within 80km radius. Also, they wanted to be precautious because Japanese government was not giving them enough accurate information to the U.S. and communication between Japan and the U.S. was terrible at that time.

Again, evacuating 78,000 residents within 20km radius was very difficult, not to mention 2,038,000 people within 80km radius, and the people fled to the wrong direction. The evacuation should have been carried out according to SPEEDI and U.S. data, that way health hazard could have been minimized.

any nation would do the same

So you'll be "on your way" forever then... What a way to live!

@Clemens. Hey, if necessary to maintain physical health I will move every time. So far in my life time there has only been 3 major nuclear incidents that would warrant my moving. Only 1 of which I was within an unacceptable (to me) distance. I think the odds, at this time, are not that bad.

The information was passed to the Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency (NISA) and the science and technology ministry by Japan’s Foreign Ministry but neither agency passed it to the prime minister’s office, which was overseeing the evacuations.

As many foreign bloggers here including myself want to know names of these individuals undeter PM Kan. Anyone? Why Japan is withholding these names?

As many foreign bloggers here including myself want to know names of these individuals undeter PM Kan. Anyone? Why Japan is withholding these names?

MEXT: Itaru Watanabe, the deputy director-general of the Science and Technology Policy Bureau, the science ministry.

When asked by The Asahi Shimbun why the information was not used to implement evacuation plans, Watanabe said: "While I now feel that the information should have been released immediately, at that time there was no thought given to using the provided data for the benefit of evacuating residents. We should have also passed on the information to the NSC."

http://ajw.asahi.com/article/0311disaster/fukushima/AJ201206180048

NISA: (under investigation)

Tetsuya Yamamoto, NISA's deputy director-general for safety examination, was given the task of setting the record straight with reporters. He explained that the radiation map was passed on to a group of NISA officials handling issues related to protection from radiation that was working in the emergency response center established at NISA headquarters. It remains unclear if the members were even aware that a radiation map with U.S. data was posted on a whiteboard in the room. He repeatedly said there were no records at NISA of how that valuable information was put to use.

http://ajw.asahi.com/article/0311disaster/fukushima/AJ201206190064

Thank you as always, Blair. Unlike private individual, public official has no immunity from press.They cannot hide.

globalwatcherJun. 21, 2012 - 01:52PM JST : Under Japanese law, ANYONE has the right to immunity from press, whether private citizens or other. Japanese laws are geared towards hiding individual responsibility and instead promote a corporate style of responsibility, i.e. the boss is responsible for everything.

It seems that this is one of those cases where the law helped cover up valuable information that could have saved the government billions, and prevented thousands of pet deaths as well as several individual deaths.

Itaru Watanabe:

"at that time there was no thought given to using the provided data for the benefit of evacuating residents."

Tetsuya Yamamoto:

"there are no records at NISA of how that valuable information was put to use."

I see. So the US provided radiation map was overlooked. They knew it was there, but they didnt consider it. Wow! Big fail there. Why though? Because they didn't understand it? Because they didn't care (priority wise?) as it wasn't from one of their own agencies? Why?

By the way, heads should roll for this kind of incompetence. Should they be arrested and jailed? Hmmmm...

basroilJun. 21, 2012 - 02:31PM JST

Under Japanese law, ANYONE has the right to immunity from press, whether private citizens or other.

@basroll, hmmm.....very interesting.

Is there any legal case challenging this issue that went all the way to the Supreme Court of Japan? I sure would like to read it. I will give you a case study "Sullivan vs New York Times" and how US public servant and official are not immuned.from the press. Thank you very much.