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Growing number of Japan municipalities ban outing LGBT individuals

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I suppose the real problem is not being able to come out as gay because of the social consequences. So, laws to stop outing are essentially a recognition of prejudice - helpful as that may be - but do little to overcome the deeper issue.

10 ( +13 / -3 )

It's usually pretty obvious to discern the orientation. There are plenty of signs.

-12 ( +10 / -22 )

Outing, which constitutes a serious human rights violation, was defined as a form of abuse of power in the guidelines for legislation that came into effect in June 2020 on women's empowerment and harassment regulation.

Most definitely it's a violation of privacy, and I'm in favor of it being considered a human rights violation for as long as there continues to be prejudice and discrimination against LGBTQIA+.

After all, the reason people don't talk about their sexuality is because they will very likely face discrimination and abuse, even assault and murder.

It's a legitimate concern and has nothing to do with shame, as I have seen suggested here many times.

So for as long as there are people who would defame and degrade, abuse and discriminate, based on sexuality, laws like this are an imperative to keep people safe.

4 ( +12 / -8 )

Great, As a frequent visitor to LGBT establishments. I can now entry a LGBT bar without the feeling of being outed. I always had this concern in the back of my mind if another punter finds out I am straight and out me, I be refused service. I am now protected and have no concern about being refused service ( which as never happen in the pass ) I consider this a great law.

-15 ( +7 / -22 )

Well, it’s certainly different than in the US. Turn on a cooking show and the first thing people say is something like, “I’m Cindy and I’m gay. I’m here to do my best for my wife Mary and make gay people proud of us.”

-4 ( +10 / -14 )

Hervé L'EisaToday  07:10 am JST

It's usually pretty obvious to discern the orientation. There are plenty of signs.

Harvey (intended sic), that statement in itself is as ignorant as one statement can get.

Whether you care or not, you know not what you are talking about.

There are folks all around you who are not what you think - shaking their heads in disbelief how dim one person can be.

10 ( +18 / -8 )

John-San -

 As a frequent visitor to LGBT establishments

Interesting revelation.

0 ( +9 / -9 )

there is no reason to go public with that.

And no reason not to if you want to. Actually there is a good reason to go public - to annoy the homophobes who are defective human beings for having a problem with it.

5 ( +12 / -7 )

girl_in_tokyoToday  07:52 am JST

So for as long as there are people who would defame and degrade, abuse and discriminate, based on sexuality, laws like this are an imperative to keep people safe.

Can't argue with that, however, the last paragraph of the article says:-

but none of the ordinances across Japan have legal penalties.

Which makes it all a bit pointless.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

but none of the ordinances across Japan have legal penalties.

Which makes it all a bit pointless.

No, not pointless. It’s maybe not as fast or as far as some might like, but it’s a beginning step to creating an understanding of the issue on the way to acceptance. It brings the issue into the eyes of the people.

8 ( +12 / -4 )

Any ordinance will have little to no effect on this LGBTQ epidemic. So I'll say it "straight".

Who you exchange bodily fluids or any intimate relationships with is not a school subject, nor should it be a legal preference for that group of individuals. You are opening a can of worms that will lead to many false accusations. Not to mention the possible blackmail of cis-gendered people.

Let's be honest and realistic. ( Analogy ) You don't have to try to look up a girl's skirts because they are going to wear them too short anyway. You don't have to out an LGBTQ individual because they are going to do it themselves. They just can't help it.

However, I do support that if any LGBTQ member makes an advance ( gets it wrong ) on a straight individual, then that straight individual has every right to "openly" tell what happened to them. This article is more like a gag order by the LGBTQ community.

Solution: If you are working at a company put yourself "out there" and things should be normal. Just be warned! If you make an advance on the wrong one, that individual has a right to tell his or her story. Sorry, not sorry, there should be a gag order on straight people. The domino effect will be a total loss of freedom of speech.

-10 ( +4 / -14 )

Redtail SwiftToday 09:51 am JST

Any ordinance will have little to no effect on this LGBTQ epidemic. So I'll say it "straight".

Um, "epidemic"???

Who you exchange bodily fluids or any intimate relationships with is not a school subject, nor should it be a legal preference for that group of individuals. You are opening a can of worms that will lead to many false accusations. Not to mention the possible blackmail of cis-gendered people.

Sexual health is a school subject. If you think that's acceptable, then you can't discriminate - LGBTQIA sexual health is just as important.

And if you don't think sexual health should be taught in schools at all, then your problem is with the federal government and not us.

However, I do support that if any LGBTQ member makes an advance ( gets it wrong ) on a straight individual, then that straight individual has every right to "openly" tell what happened to them. This article is more like a gag order by the LGBTQ community.

No gay person has ever said or implied that straight people cannot "openly" say no to them - there is no such thing as a "gag order" on explaining you aren't gay. I feel like this is a no-brainer.

9 ( +14 / -5 )

The solution to this problem is not to ban the practice but, arrest the people who practise outing of gay people. Outing of gays will naturally stop when they are arrested.

-5 ( +5 / -10 )

Who you exchange bodily fluids or any intimate relationships with is not a school subject, nor should it be a legal preference for that group of individuals. 

Why not? Discussion of love between heterosexuals happens in school all the time. As does sex education. It’s silly to think we should ignore homosexuals just because it makes bigots uncomfortable. That’s the exact reason we shouldn’t ignore ir - education is the road to acceptance.

-1 ( +7 / -8 )

Education is the road to avoid ignorance, not acceptance.

Being aware of existence of different people's way of living does not make them necessarily acceptable to you.

I hope we understand all in a respectful manner. Respect people whatever they are, but don't expect to be respected whatever you do.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

Being aware of existence of different people's way of living does not make them necessarily acceptable to you.

As long as there is nothing intrinsically negative about those different ways of living then not finding them acceptable is the problem, part of what being aware should mean is to understand that just because something is different that does not mean it automatically is worse or bad.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

Honest question: what does “outing” mean? Does it mean posting this information on a website or announcing it in a meeting? Telling other people? Again, an honest question.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

It goes without saying that privacy is a basic human right, moreover I can't imagine the alienating social stigma that comes with being outed as a homophobe.

How does one explain to normal friends, family and colleagues that you hold a wilfully irrational dislike or hatred of some humans who have no effect on your life while at the same time portraying yourself as a victim of your own ignorance ?

It must be a terribly lonely existence out there in the real world so one would retreat into an online sanctuary of other angry, irrational humans. How desperately sad. I would rather be outed as gay.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Education is the road to avoid ignorance, not acceptance.

I would not agree.

Acceptance is also an important aspect of education. Education can promote acceptance by fostering an understanding. Education can contribute to reducing prejudice and promoting acceptance of others.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Sex between men was deeply embedded in ancient Roman and Greek times, it was seen as normal. Even in more modern era's there was a huge amount of of gay men in NY city at the times when Italian men were emigrating there in the early 20th century, most had left their families at home to seek a better life. They were not 'gay' in the true sense of the word but chose to be with other men for companionship and relationships. And even in the old 'Wild West' in the USA many men chose these types of relationships because they had no women with them, these were were the cowboys etc...etc.. It is now, only in relatively 'modern times' ( I use that term reluctantly) there seems to be a great issue with it. Being gay (I am) or LGTBQ is no big deal except for bigots and homophobics, and usually because their lives are so inconsequential they must have something to hate.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

Alan, bot straight and gay people are allowed to talk about their partners, that is not the problem described here. Other people, especially those in position of power (direct boss, professor, etc.) are not allowed to talk about other people's partners without the consent of that person. Which applies both for straight and gay couples. Anybody's sexual preference should be a private issue, and should depend only on the personal decision to reveal it to others.

The problem a boss may have is transgenders. If he/she starts using the other gender's toilet (or on a company trip, onsen, room, etc.), and others start complaining, then the boss is in a difficult situation.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

LGBT is nothing more than mental illness or if GOD really does exist which I'm an atheist. God is suppose to be prefect how dare you mistakenly put a souls into the improper body when a female or a male claiming to be the other.... It has to be mental illness or god did not do his job correctly.

-8 ( +4 / -12 )

"The boss is not in a difficult position lol. If that person is transgender they can use whatever gender bathroom they identify with. If people want to be ignorant and complain that's their problem."

This is not how it works in real life. If Nakamura Taro identifies as a woman, then the women in the company will complain to the boss if he/she used the toilet or changing room. Now, the boss cannot tell them anything about Taro unless his/her explicit permission. And telling those women they are "ignorant" will just seal the boss' fate with HR.

We had a guy who was probably just a fan of cosplay, and he was coming on Fridays only dressed as a women. With a blonde wig, makeup, skirt, heels, etc. I am not sure what toilet was he using on Fridays, but fortunately nobody complained.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

What about freedom of speech?

-11 ( +1 / -12 )

What about freedom of speech?

There's no such thing.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

 about freedom of speech?

There's no such thing.

Yes there is

Article 21 of Japan's constitution prohibits censorship and protects freedom of “speech, press, and all other forms of expression,”

https://freedomhouse.org/country/japan/freedom-net/2022#:~:text=Article%2021%20of%20Japan's%20constitution,and%20several%20laws%20have%20negative

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Roy, I don't think guys would complain, but women at a Japanese company will 100% run to HR if a male-looking person uses the women toilet. And larger companies also have changing rooms and other facilities, which are potentially even more problematic. The solution until now was, management tells them that X is a transgender, but without X explicit permission, you can't say that. These issues are actually discussed at management and HR level, at least at larger companies in Japan, and there are no clear cut answers.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

What about freedom of speech?

Its perfectly fine, people are still able to use it.

Of course infringing in the rights of others is just an abuse of that freedom that has no reason to exist.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

A very good step. A small one, but a very good one.

Unfortunately, it'll take another couple of generations before the discrimination stops, but we'll get there eventually.

Sam WattersToday 11:13 am JST

Honest question: what does “outing” mean?

https://www.lgbtqandall.com/what-is-outing-and-why-is-it-harmful/

1 ( +2 / -1 )

People of intelligence recognize that freedom of speech is a legal term, and does not provide one of freedom of repercussions for their speech from society. That’s people of intelligence.

You can mostly say what you want in a country with freedom of speech, but that doesn’t mean society won’t point out you’re an idiot when you say idiotic things, or even that you won’t lose your job.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

ban outing LGBT individuals

I have no problem in requiring that sexual orientation be kept private. That should just be common sense. But I find the "T" in there disturbing. Demanding that physical biological facts should be ignored because of feelings opens a whole pandoras box of problems, e.g. biological men in womens sports (including violent contact sports), in locker rooms, in womens prisons etc etc. If guy puts on a dress and demands access to womens spaces, he definitely should "outed" and stopped.

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

I have no problem in requiring that sexual orientation be kept private. That should just be common sense

You clearly misunderstood what is being said. No one is saying it should’ve kept private (other than the bigots of course) only that outing someone who wishes to keep it private, is not allowed.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Fighto!

John-San -

 As a frequent visitor to LGBT establishments

Interesting revelation.

....interesting revelation that there always people who do not understand sarcasm?

0 ( +3 / -3 )

 If guy puts on a dress and demands access to womens spaces, he definitely should "outed" and stopped.

As long as this person has a recognized right to do it there is no justification for anybody to "out" anything no matter how strongly they feel about it.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Japanese culture encourages snitching. People do it about things that are absolutely none of their business.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

The right to free speech is a less right than the individual right to life and liberty. The right to free speech is a protection against governments from suppressing it.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

The Constitution does not have a clear section. What it says is:

Article 19. Freedom of thought and conscience shall not be violated.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

The right to free speech is a less right than the individual right to life and liberty. The right to free speech is a protection against governments from suppressing it.

Oh dear, nuance. I suspect some posters will have a very difficult time grasping this.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

sorry

make sense to ban outing their gender or sexual orientation

1 ( +3 / -2 )

there is no need to "discuss" anything at all.what you do at home its your private thing and there no need to make from it kind of "reality show".

This is just silly. Being who you are is not a reality show, it’s reality. If bigots have a problem with it, that’s their defect. Normal people don’t have a people with love.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

I don't understand why people care if people are gay or not, especially in the workplace. I mean it's not affecting their workplace is it.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

This is official stance of japanese law.

Anyone who wants to change both articles must initiate changes of both articles in legal way.

For example make a political party,make attractive political agenda and steal masses who will vote for you in elections.Once you take majority than you can initiate changes.

Its clear and in democratic way.Constitutional way.

Clear and precise.

And since when does it matter what a law doesn't say?

Since a country with a legal system determines that it matters.

改正労働施策総合推進法,

This only applies to companies and is beyond the scope of the law discussed in the article that does not prohibit outing.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Clear and precise.

But as explained, mistaken. Electing representatives is very different from electing single issues.

This only applies to companies

The moment that applies to companies it means it applies to a very common (and damaging) way the outing can happen.

and is beyond the scope of the law discussed in the article that does not prohibit outing.

The ordinances that are discussed in the article explicitly ban outing it says so even on the headline.

you wont "outdate" nature.or "outsmart" democracy.

But mistaken beliefs can become outdated with better understanding, and flawed arguments can be outsmarted. Social growth would also means that democracy is bound to support understanding of sexual minorities since people become more aware of the undue discrimination with this growth and eventually this is reflected by the actions of the people elected to represent that society.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Strangerland Today 03:53 pm JST

Being who you are is not a reality show

Few reality shows are truly reality. Instead they showcase dramatic, self-centered individuals who crave attention and desire validation, e.g. Kim Kardashian. So I agree with you. Being oneself should ideally not entail dramatic demonstrations of one's need for validation to which everyone is expected to accept. But it happens.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Japan as democratic country-runs by applying of law.

Constitution.

not by some "feelings" you may have...

clear enough?

Who has claimed anything different? that the laws of Japan (and many other democratic countries) change according to social growth do not mean feelings replace those laws, it means the laws become better.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Japan as democratic country-runs by applying of law.

Constitution.

not by some "feelings" you may have...

Perfect factual and legal based explanation.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

Perfect factual and legal based explanation.

So, no argument that refute the fact that this is just a strawman used to avoid discussing the actual arguments used?

2 ( +3 / -1 )

It wouldn't be a subject of discussion if people stopped minding other people's business. I never understood homophobia.

To make an analogy, it is like you go to a restaurant, you hate sausage and yell at other people for eating sausages while you are eating fish. And then you complain to the chef to remove sausage of the menu because you dont like it.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

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