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Hiroshima marks 76th A-bomb anniversary as virus, Olympics roll on

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An anniversary marked by willingness of the Japanese government to prolong the war, so as to bring this legal war act of destruction against its people who were participating in the war efforts.

-16 ( +18 / -34 )

Doves.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Get over it, it was over 70 years ago!

Is that only valise when criticizing China or South Korea for mentioning WWII?

-17 ( +22 / -39 )

While Japan's commitment to world peace and non proliferation is a commendable act, one must face the stark reality that there are many nations with or developing nuclear weapons who have no such scruples or moral limitations.

The sad truth is that someday, somewhere, history will repeat itself.

20 ( +26 / -6 )

Get over it, it was over 70 years ago!

No one blames the US, just blaming such a-bombs that many countries keep holding. It seems Japanese wish "never happen like this again in any country". The ceremony is held ever to blame such weapons.

15 ( +23 / -8 )

I have to give Suga credit for being able to speak about this while not checking the medal board every three seconds to see if there's a new distraction from the massive spike in Covid cases.

2 ( +14 / -12 )

ALL COUNTRIES involved in WWII committed war crimes against innocent civilians.. It must not be forgotten so as not to repeat it.

Japan was the first one who paid the price for it war crimes, the turn of the others is coming although there is one that is already paying it in installments.. Little by little..

Get over it, it was over 70 years ago!

If a foreign country evaporates your city and kills your whole family and 70 years later some moron from that country comes to you, (now an elderly 70+), and tells you to "Get over it", would you like it ??..

An anniversary marked by willingness of the Japanese government to prolong the war, so as to bring this legal war act of destruction against its people who were participating in the war efforts.

Prolong the war??..

Which is the country that loves war the most, that arms itself to the teeth as if the apocalypse began tomorrow and that takes advantage of that to enrich itself, being the largest manufacturer and exporter of weapons in the world and even it has more guns than inhabitants??, which country??..

-8 ( +21 / -29 )

Only country that cares about the atomic bombs? Japan. The country affected by it.

Other countries have it on stand by.

One phone call away from lunching hundreds towards the other side.

If Japan could respond in kind to Hiroshima and Nagasaki in 1945. The results would have been to ban such weapons like they did with Mustard Gas in WW1. If America suffered the consequences too, Nuclear Weapons would be banned in our current timeline.

-4 ( +16 / -20 )

I don't know why people say things like, "get over it." Japanese do not use this time to blame the US at all. They use this time to blame themselves on one hand, because they realized through all of this that war is wrong. On the other hand, these indiscriminate weapons that cause mass destruction are so terrible, they use the time to say that we should never use such weapons again. And, as Gen. Douglas MacArthur said, "We should pray for peace." A very commendable action by the Japanese, and people of Hiroshima.

15 ( +26 / -11 )

Nobody cares

-25 ( +4 / -29 )

ALL COUNTRIES involved in WWII committed war crimes against innocent civilians.. It must not be forgotten so as not to repeat it.

Yet you constantly tell the South Koreans and Chinese to “get over it because it was over 70 years ago” whenever they mention Japan’s rape of Asia, which was the direct cause of not one, but two atomic bombs being dropped on Japan.

Why did it take two bombs and 9 days after the first for Japan to surrender?

-9 ( +15 / -24 )

P. SmithToday  09:20 am JST

Get over it, it was over 70 years ago!

Is that only valise when criticizing China or South Korea for mentioning WWII?

A comment that is a prime example of why history continues to repeat itself.

6 ( +18 / -12 )

I would possibly care if it was not for the fact Japan plays the victim then right after ignores or denies what it's troops did throughout much of Asia.

My first time in Hiroshima, I got out of the station and was immediately set upon by the "do you know about the atomic bombing" " you need to see the peace dome" blah blah blah, when I said I was to busy, I was told how us "Americans" did it.

At that point I had enough, I told them I am not American and then asked if they would visit Nanjing.

Well they blew up saying that Nanjing was all propaganda etc...

So much for facts and peace being the reason, it is about playing the victim.

Note for this each time a had to got there but not once in Nagasaki.

2 ( +23 / -21 )

…A few moments of silence.

8 ( +13 / -5 )

People sure don’t like that I am repeating what other posters say every time South Korea or China mentions Japan’s rape of Asia. Weird.

-3 ( +19 / -22 )

An anniversary marked by willingness of the Japanese government to prolong the war

The fact is the ~#=:- ignored Japan's repeated appeals to surrender until after they could test a new weapon in densely populated urban areas.

I could understand Japan putting up with the occupiers when their economy was the only major one left standing. But now China is a far more important trading partner and rapidly pulling further ahead of any major trading partners.

Time to kick out the occupiers and demand reparations on pain of openly siding with China against them.

-15 ( +6 / -21 )

Matsui stressed that his city would never stop preserving the facts of the catastrophe and promoting a worldwide culture of peace.

Good, it is important to continue to preserve the facts of this day but often they get tangled with omissions. I learned from my first visit to the original Hiroshima Peace Museum that Hiroshima was not a peaceful city in 1945 but one of the major military command posts for the Imperial Japan forces.

I read that the city of Hiroshima has plans to demolish two out of the three prefecture-owned buildings of the former Hiroshima Army Clothing Depot. It is better to keep the buildings to emphasize the role Hiroshima did play in the Imperial forces.

-3 ( +11 / -14 )

The Japanese leaders were intransigent to the end. Virtually no amount of death and destruction would bring them to their knees. They were literally prepared to sacrifice the entire population rather than admit defeat and surrender unconditionally. Even after Hirohito intervened—a radical act in itself in the Japanese political system of the time—there was a contingent of holdouts. Very few people know, I suspect, that there was an attempted coup d’etat on August 14, 1945, by hardliners who would not accept a surrender. They failed, obviously. But it’s very likely that had they succeeded, the war would have continued and the US would have resumed nuclear attacks. The plotters died by ritual suicide and the war and an exhausted Japan finally capitulated.

10 ( +20 / -10 )

The fact is the ~#=:- ignored Japan's repeated appeals to surrender until after they could test a new weapon in densely populated urban areas.

Demonstrably false. The US called for the unconditional surrender of Japan. Japan’s appeals for surrender all included conditions such as maintaining the imperial system, etc. As such, theses appeals were rebuffed.

Japan knew way before August 6th, 1945 that it had to unconditionally surrender. It chose not to, so it reaped what it sowed.

Tragic events, but the fault lays with Hirohito and the other Japanese war-time leaders.

3 ( +21 / -18 )

They use this time to blame themselves on one hand, because they realized through all of this that war is wrong.

I wish that were true. When a mayor of Nagasaki did that, suggesting Japan bore some responsibility for the war and bombing, he was the victim of an assassination attempt, shot in the back in 1990.

There is a specific way people in Japan are supposed to remember the bombings, and diverging from that can be very dangerous.

4 ( +18 / -14 )

@JeffLee: Diverging from that can be very dangerous.

This is the rightist playbook, kicking up nationalism and hatred and neighbouring country:China,Russia, North/South Korea! They cant blaming America's responsibility so they get blaming innocent countries and skipping their own responsibility! Every year's August was their show time of hypocrisy!

-9 ( +9 / -18 )

As for the U.N. treaty to ban nuclear weapons, which currently has 86 signatory states, Matsui called for the Japanese government to sign and ratify it in order to carry out "productive mediation" between nuclear and non-nuclear-weapon states.

So you want to show to the world how devastating are nuclear weapons but yet you don't sign such treaty?

Hipocricy.

"Japan, as the only country that has suffered atomic bombings in war, understands the inhumanity of nuclear weapons better than any other nation, so it is important for us to make steady efforts towards the realization of a world free of nuclear weapons," he said.

Again the ultra nationalistic affiliate PM from Nippon kaigi that wants to revert Japan to nationalism and a "beautiful country" as always tells only half of the story,play the victim is not the right card.

Japan suffered atrocious bombardments and the A-bomb but he forgot to mention why such action was done and who started the war.

Again hipocricy.

8 ( +17 / -9 )

ALL COUNTRIES involved in WWII committed war crimes against innocent civilians.. It must not be forgotten so as not to repeat it.

As far as Allied were no saints but I don't recall they sent to concentration camps and kill over 15 (Nazi Germany and Japan combined) millions of innocent jewish,other east asian people,homosexuals and disabled people.

Allies were no saints but your comments as many of yours resent idiocy.

9 ( +18 / -9 )

Nuclear weapons are the ultimate human violence.

I dunno. They are more powerful in terms of destruction, but on a moral level, the attacks on Pearl Harbor are worse.

-6 ( +11 / -17 )

If a foreign country evaporates your city and kills your whole family and 70 years later some moron from that country comes to you, (now an elderly 70+), and tells you to "Get over it", would you like it ??..

Absolutely agree...Hiroshima should keep remembering...by the same logic, look forward to see the same sentiments expressed here when the anniversaries of Nanking massacre, Burma death March etc roll around ....those atrocities should be remembered in exactly the same way. No selective memory please.

11 ( +20 / -9 )

Only country that cares about the atomic bombs? Japan. The country affected by it."

And yet - Japan has refused to participate in the Treaty on the Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons...this is LDP govt official policy...mind-blowing.

4 ( +13 / -9 )

An anniversary marked by willingness of the Japanese government to prolong the war, so as to bring this legal war act of destruction against its people who were participating in the war efforts.

First of all, that's a LIE, a propagandistic rationalization put forth by psychopaths to justify mass murder. Japan had been trying to arrange surrender for months prior to the bombing. Another lie for naive morons was the "million casualty invasion".

I learned from my first visit to the original Hiroshima Peace Museum that Hiroshima was not a peaceful city in 1945 but one of the major military command posts for the Imperial Japan forces.

You must've brought some illegal drugs with you because ALL of the original American documents on those museum walls describe the preparations for an experiment and Hiroshima had been spared ANY bombing because it is surrounded by mountains which would contain the blast and give a better indication of the destructiveness of the Uranium bomb and prior bombing would have confused the results. Nagasaki was 'preserved' also for similar reasons. And there were only a small detachment of troops in the city and had it been a "major military command post" it would have been bombed mercilessly well before the American atrocity. There were other such preserved cities as well... Once in a while it is well to ACTUALLY READ SOME HISTORY to see if the stories told by your own monsters are really true and, for the "Allies" few are. And, just for the exercise, while Japan was trying to take over Asia, how many poor farmers in Central and South America was America murdering for simply asking our Corporations for a larger share of their own labors? WE, the most noble of all countries ever, killed more poor peasants during the hundred years before WWII than the Japanese killed in all of Asia. You can start with "The United Fruit Company" and the phrase "Send in the Marines!" if you have already learned to read. The victor tells the tales and the loser's voice is feeble. And when confronting Home Team prejudice, it's like trying to teach a dog a card trick...

The fact is we mass murdered MOSTLY women, children, and old people to test a new toy while ignoring serious attempts by Japan to open negotiations toward surrender and, while not as heinous as the Christian Genocide of Native Americans which somehow also manages to avoid the American conscience, it is a fate which America itself had best prepare itself for because our aggressive actions against China will not go unanswered and you had best hope you have no close relatives aboard ANY American 'battle group' (see: archaic, WWII strategic errors) because they will ALL vanish in the first hour of our, U.S.'s, comeuppance.

And there is only one word which comes up at Hiroshima that really means anything other than U.S. shame: WASUREINAI!! Never forget! But, meaningless for Americans who, of all of the peoples in the world, are most ignorant of our own history. And the USS WARD will tell you WHO fired the first deadly shot at Pearl Harbor at 0530 with no warning communicated to the base at all and the 'surprise attack' started at 0745. Start with THAT LIE and learn all that goes with it.

This is a Day of solemn mourning both for the victims of American monstrousness and for the Human World at large now in the valley of the shadow thanks to America. Not a day to strut out all of the old, busted lies propagated to hide conscienceless murderers. READ THE REAL HISTORY. And prepare for some serious cognitive dissonance...and, if your perception knows no shame, at least shut your ignorant mouths for a moment of silence observed by your betters.

WASUREINAI!!

-10 ( +11 / -21 )

grrrr....

-5 ( +5 / -10 )

Japan realizes that they made a very bad mistake in following western countries in colonization and manifest destiny, including those that exterminated native Indians and engaged in buying slaves from Africa. Japan has apologized many times and has refrained from engaging in actions that are inhumane since the disaster of the atomic bomb. Japan does not engage in open racism in its policing targeting darker skins. Japan paid the price of its mistakes although the atomic bomb was not used on Germany. Those of German and Italian ancestry were not subjugated to loss of homes and sent to internment camps. Japan should be allowed to mourn the loss of innocent people who were killed in an experimental bomb even though it was evident that Japan was close to surrendering. The mourning of those killed will continue in Japan and will serve to prevent a repeat of the mistake of following the behavior of western countries.

-16 ( +4 / -20 )

Present Japan's PM Suga who prioritizes to use Japanese gold medalists politically than defending the lives of people from virus surge, It no persuativeness even if such a politician says something about the lives or peace.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

It was was 40+ years ago now and my memory of which city it was is unclear but a former serviceman visiting one of the bombed cities very soon afterward once showed me some of the photographs he had secretly taken due to being forbidden from taking for some reason. The the horror of what I saw still upsets me when I think back to them as I do on occasions like this. I think it's really inappropriate how some people are using this comments column today and I think they should be ashamed of their behaviour. Very inappropriate and heartless.

-3 ( +6 / -9 )

takabin3650Today  12:53 pm JST

Japan has apologized many times 

But still it's leaders go to Yasakuni still deni the internationally accepted facts of Nanjing and 731.

the atomic bomb was not used on Germany.

Because it wasn't ready. First atomic test of any bomb was July 16 1945 Germany surendered on May 7th 1945

Those of German and Italian ancestry were not subjugated to loss of homes and sent to internment camps

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_German_Americans

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_Italian_Americans

And your comment is a perfect example of why so many say the Japanese do not know historical facts about the war.

4 ( +15 / -11 )

People sure don’t like that I am repeating what other posters say every time South Korea or China mentions Japan’s rape of Asia. Weird.

That’s because the main difference between Japan and South Korea/China is that when Japan talks about the atomic bomb it doesn’t attack one particular nation. How often have we heard japan say “America is the main culprit for inventing and dropping the atomic bomb, it should be punished and shamed and asked to apologize millions of times “? The focus of japan is on how bad atomic bomb is for humanity and therefore we should shy away from it, whereas the focus of South Korea and China is always to shame Japan.

That is why these two countries don’t deserve respect when they bring up the matter over and over again. If they had said something more like “war is bad and rape and ravage is bad let’s not do it again” people won’t be telling them to rest it.

I’m not European so I won’t know for sure but I’ve hardly seen news on how, say, Poland, shames Germany and Italy and makes them apologize for their war atrocities over and over and over again. The inability to forgive and move on is why South Korea and China will never command respect nor gain sympathy for their Japan trashing, even if the Japanese did horrible things back then. (Of course, plenty of countries did terrible things back then.)

3 ( +10 / -7 )

If a foreign country evaporates your city and kills your whole family and 70 years later some moron from that country comes to you, (now an elderly 70+), and tells you to "Get over it", would you like it 

If a foreign country invaded your city and kills your whole family and 70 years later some moron from that country comes to you, (now an elderly 70+), and tells you to "it never happened", would you like it?

Nanjing & 731. Ring any bells?

6 ( +16 / -10 )

Sorry for all the victims.

Hiroshima and Nagasaki are just victims of war like others. There is no scale of horror to promote. Peace only to promote.

Let historians write history.

It is a pity many here use revisionism or negationism of history to think they are right.

Japan started war, was unable by its leaders to accept the end of it. Fact.

Nothing is black or white. USA took the opportunity to test its nuclear bombs for its own saje to preserve American lives. Why wouldn't they at that time ?

Would you use a bow to finish someone who attacked you first if you had also a gun in hand ?

So easy to criticize afterwards. In all aspects, war is wrong for both the losers and the winners. That's why USA is at peace with Japan and that is a blessing.

7 ( +14 / -7 )

Nuclear weapons are the ultimate human violence.

Really, let's see Auschwitz treblanca, 731, Nanjing, March 9/10 firebombing of Tokyo. All of which are responsible for far more death and destruction and loss of life.

I could go on with a far longer list from all sides.

So why is Hiroshima so much worse than the March 9/10 firebombing of Tokyo?

Because people died instantly instead of slowly as the fire spread burning them slowly, because the survivors died from radiation and not from massive conventional burns?

Those in Hiroshima and Nagasaki got far more attention, far more compensation far better treatment than the survivors of the Tokyo firebombing who were forgotten and denied all claims of compensation, despite the government knowing the bombing were coming and refused to permit the evacuation of the children from Tokyo.

Again tell us why these two of all the misery from that war deserve to be special?

2 ( +12 / -10 )

How often have we heard japan say “America is the main culprit for inventing and dropping the atomic bomb, it should be punished and shamed and asked to apologize millions of times “? 

Selective reading?

All the time and I am not American and I have been told it several times a year here in Japan ( all white guys are Americans I guess)

3 ( +11 / -8 )

*It was was 40+ years ago now and my memory of which city it was is unclear but a former serviceman visiting one of the bombed cities very soon afterward once showed me some of the photographs he had secretly taken due to being forbidden from taking for some reason. The the horror of what I saw still upsets me when I think back to them as I do on occasions like this. *I think it's really inappropriate how some people are using this comments column today and I think they should be ashamed of their behaviour. Very inappropriate and heartless.

I agree entirely, but this is the era we live in: a cocktail of "I have access to the internet", "I am always right", and "I will use whatever furthers my point of view, and nothing's off-limits".

3 ( +7 / -4 )

Fighting is easy, holding grudges is easy however neither will make you happy.

Choosing to forgive and love is far more rewarding.

6 ( +9 / -3 )

At the ongoing Tokyo Olympics, athletes and officials have not been asked to observe a moment of silence despite requests from the Hiroshima city government and other groups for them to participate "in spirit."

So let me see if I understand this correctly. You’ll allow athletes to kneel in protest, but we’re not going to even ask them observe a moment of silence for a much greater atrocity that occurred in the very nation that’s hosting???

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

Rest In Peace” to those poor civilian souls that were lost in any country as casualties of war that was instigated and undeterred by their ‘leaders’.

-5 ( +5 / -10 )

Japan's public broadcast NHK discontinued even program about atomic bomb they had broadcasted at 6th August every year since 1979 to prioritize Olympics programs.

Present Japan is under insane situation that mainstream media value Olympics than opportunity that reporting about virus surge or thinking about the war and human lives.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

@O'Brien

You may be right but at the same time you may be wrong.

Read some of the comments of those supporting the Hiroshima view.

Total lack of historical facts,

"Japan was ready to surender before," even the Japanese government at the time admitted there were conditions (unconditional same as Germany was the only option)

the atomic bomb was not used on Germany.

Ignoring the fact it wasn't even ready until after Germany surendered.

"German and Italian were not interested like the Japanese"

In fact they were!

I have seen many photos of the people and cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki right after the bombing.

You won't find many of Tokyo after the Mach 9/10 firebombing because the Japanese government wouldn't permit any.

But I have met survivors of that night here in Tokyo, I have heard their stories seen the burnt and scarred bodies, I listened as they complained that they were ignored while Hiroshima and Nagasaki got all the attention and help.

So I ask again why the different treatment between the atomic bomb survivors and Tokyo etc.. bombing survivors?

-2 ( +7 / -9 )

It’s in the headline so, it’s relevant @Tristis Quepe 9:46am:

- “I have to give Suga credit to speak about this while not checking the medal board every three seconds to see if there's a new distraction from the massive spike in Covid cases.”

(Come on, folks. You know he reads JT on the limo ride in each morning. - Where else is he getting ‘expert’ information for HIS plan to juggle the Olympics, the pandemic, surging infections and flailing status of vaccinations?)

-11 ( +0 / -11 )

"Anniversary" seems like the wrong word to me here. I know it's basic meaning is a recurring yearly event. However, in practice is more related to celebratory or congratulatory events than mournful ones.

The word "Memorial day" (although sounds like the name of an American Holiday is is exactly that) or Commemoration day would seem more appropriate.

I am the only one who finds it a little off putting?

2 ( +5 / -3 )

It is estimated that if the US did not use these effective weapons to end the war when it did, Japan would not have surrendered for at least another 6 months.

The number of Allied prisoners in Japanese captivity were dying or being killed at the rate of over 15,000 per month.

Therefore, if the US did not use the bombs, approximately 100,000 American, Canadian, Australian, British, and New Zealand war prisoners would have perished.

It would have been a good idea to allow this loss of life of these Allies in order to save that number of the enemy, many who were involved in working in the munitions factories and other war efforts in Hiroshima?

-11 ( +5 / -16 )

Last year on the 75th anniversary of the end of the war, And acknowledged the suffering and deaths of the Japanese people, the suffering of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the "sacrifice" of the Japanese soldiers.

What he did not mention was the suffering and deaths of those at the hands of the Japanese.

And this has been the policy of Japan, Hiroshima, etc...they will always say "these are 2 different things" but it is the people of Japan that elect leaders like And and Koizumi, etc...

If Hiroshima is so for peace no war ever again and claims it's commemorations are for all and not just the bomb victims.

Here is an idea, include a section for the victims of the Japanese military and include specifically Nankin and 731.

As we say put your money where your mouth is.

-1 ( +7 / -8 )

There were some mind-numbingly atrocious crimes capitalism brought about in the war. Not in any particular order:

The rape of Nanjing.

The Japanese occupation of China.

The Nazi invasion of the Soviet Union.

The Holocaust of various minorities in Europe, especially Jews and Gypsies.

The American prolongation of the war until they could test WMDs in densely populated urban areas of Japan.

Apologies were made and reparations paid by 4 of the 5. Kind of for West Germany and the Soviet Union. West Germany agreed to pay but couldn't. The Soviet Union wrote it off but took East Prussia.

Japan can't force reparations be paid as Japan has no nukes but the other party does and has no qualms using them. But Japan has tremendous leverage by way of it's most important trading partner. Should make an ultimatum to USA. Remove your occupation forces, apologize, pay reparations. Don't do it and Japan will ally itself firmly with its largest trading partner against you. Do it partially and Japan will remain neutral. Do all 3 and we will continue to back USA against China, minus the occupation forces.

0 ( +7 / -7 )

The merits of dropping the bombs, the justification, to end the war immediately, or, allow it to prolong, will be a debate with no clear answer today.

However, what is clear is, where it was drop? Then....??

Was it necessary to drop it in built up, high density, high population centres. If, the intention was to show the Japanese leadership the potency, destructive abilities of the weapon, the damage, the death, the suffering of people living in those areas, to forced them to surrender. This could have been achieved by dropping the bombs in rural areas? Less built up, less densely populated areas?? Less people will have to die, to suffer etc.

So, the agenda.....

4 ( +7 / -3 )

After hundreds of years of non stop war, Hideyoshi went west with ambitions of taking China via Korea. Japan was pushed back. They tried expanding again some 350 years later. Pushed back again. I guess they saw the light, , , twice.

Seriously tho, the war was not as one sided as many would have you believe. The two bombs probably caused less casualties (on both sides) than what the numbers would have been in a full scale invasion attempt of the mainland. Both sides knew this and it played a role in the final surrender.

The major reason these get more attention than other arguably greater atrocities is the simple fact their atomic weapons of instant mass destruction. We’re not talking days or weeks, or months we’re talking in an instant.

Its like comparing the Battle of Jabiim to the Destruction of Alderaan.

With that in mind, imagine if the Tokyo fire bombing were nuclear?

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

People sure don’t like that I am repeating what other posters say every time South Korea or China mentions Japan’s rape of Asia. Weird.

Japan has a reminder for WWII once a year. South Korea has a reminder for it once a week. The Japanese don’t demand the U.S. for compensation every year, post children’s drawings of the U.S. being nuked, break into the U.S. embassy, refuse to refuel American cars, or whatever else from coffee’s long list of grievances by the Koreans.

3 ( +8 / -5 )

Japan has the only constitution dedicated to peace.

Can the same be say for the Government of China or North Korea.

There are lessons to be learnt within the J education system for sure.

There is no surrender culturally, even to the present day, octogenarian toll relentlessly to maintain J agriculture. Bent double.

They never give up. No matter what.

Why would that be any different in war?

6 ( +7 / -1 )

There are no excuses for the appalling atrocities committed by the Japan Imperial Forces.

Was the incineration of Hiroshima and Nagasaki recompense, just deserts, dare I suggest revenge.

A nation reaps what it sows?

Every strand that defines atonement, of restitution, is politically linked to justification through decades of angry retribution injury and loss.

Forgiveness to the present day people of Japan is just beyond the Government of China and North Korea.

That methodology is cynically used to justify committing horrendous acts/crimes of genocide against their own people.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

Really?

@12:39pm: “grrrr....”

Seem appropriate given the occasion ??

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

I am convinced that the United States was in a great hurry to test the bomb, on real targets ,before the end of the war.

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

ペルソンペルToday  04:10 pm JST

I am convinced that the United States was in a great hurry to test the bomb, on real targets ,before the end of the war.

Were the Japanese in a great hurry to test their samurai swords on the necks of prisoners, and civilians in China? Or test their bullets and bombs and missiles all over Asia on real targets?

The US had already tested the bomb---in the US. There was no doubt as to what damage it would do.

Regardless, Japan started the war, the US had the right to finish it.

I am sure the weeping for those killed by the atomic bombs was no greater than the weeping for those killed by bullets or other weapons.

-2 ( +8 / -10 )

The facr says all: Japan regrets they lost the Second World War and failed to acquire a nuclear weapon! Japan still refuse to sign the "Test Ban Treaty"! What does these yearly ceremony says: The Unsincerely willing to achieve peace!

0 ( +6 / -6 )

Anybody who has not been to the Hiroshima Peace Memorial Museum, should go. It will change your views on the subject. Countless written accounts of innocent people who lived and suffered through it and the horrific pictures of people burned alive. Nothing like you have ever seen. You cannot leave that museum without it effecting you.

It is very important to recognize the 200,000 innocent victims not associated with the war. Also, recognize mistakes made and strive to not repeat history.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

The world will never be rid of nuclear energy and nuclear weapons. Unless something else comes along making them obsolete. That's the harsh reality with more more countries coming online with nuclear energy.

Anyways Hiroshima. I would say Happy Anniversary. But that would seem inappropriate.

For what its worth. I do not think the world will ever forget the survivors of this weapon of mass destruction being unleashed on Japan and that happened and all that was lost. We must never forget everything that took place. Of course Including the loss of life and immense suffering not once but twice with a third on deck.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Interesting how in the photo Genbaku Dome is seemingly very close to the monument.

I also visited the museum. A man comes out with very mixed feelings.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

 A man comes out with very mixed feelings. Absolutely!

The more you go the more mixed and perplexed I always feel. As an American even more so.

The Nagaski museum affects me more for some reason.

Good point @Mirchy.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

CrashTestDummyToday  04:57 pm JST

It is very important to recognize the 200,000 innocent victims not associated with the war. Also, recognize mistakes made and strive to not repeat history.

Not in Japan,. Even middle school children were training for the defense of Japan from an invasion. 30,000 people in Hiroshima were working in munitions factories. Thousands more doing the same in Nagasaki.

There are no innocents on the side of the aggressor.

-4 ( +5 / -9 )

"Hiroshima citizens have the role of linking future generations to the unfiltered voices (of the bombing)," she said. "In our daily lives, it's so easy to forget that a bomb dropped on our city since we didn't directly experience it."

Bombs dropped on many cities during WW2 (including Tokyo). My home city was extensively bombed and this photograped and documented in the local museam. I don't really see what is so special about Hiroshima.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Both Hiroshima and Nagasaki are demanding neither compensation nor apology at all. what is so wrong with mourning for the war-victims?

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Japanese PM apologizes :

'Japan understands the inhumanity of nuclear weapons better, & it is important to make efforts to realize a world without them.'

What about massacring 300,000 innocent in Nanjing without any nuclear weapon?

Did Japan not understand that better too?..

2 ( +6 / -4 )

Why was it necessary to throw a bomb when the outcome of the war was already being decided?

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

"ALL COUNTRIES involved in WWII committed war crimes against innocent civilians." Not quite True.

!. The Rape of Nanjing (Japan). Atrocities that would you gag.

The Holocaust (Germany).

Ill treatment of POWs by Japan. 25% of all POWs under the Japanese did not return or in states of malnutrition and torture.

Everyone, of course, bombed civilian populations. War crime? I my view yes.
2 ( +4 / -2 )

While Japan's commitment to world peace and non proliferation is a commendable act, one must face the stark reality that there are many nations with or developing nuclear weapons who have no such scruples or moral limitations.

Japan has no such commitment. It is a strong supporter of the nuclear umbrella and has been steadfastly against any reduction in nuclear weapons. It also lied to its own people for decades about letting nuclear ships through.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Was it necessary to drop it in built up, high density, high population centres. If, the intention was to show the Japanese leadership the potency, destructive abilities of the weapon, 

The decision to drop the two bombs was a military one, not political. On the other hand, President Truman said any decision to use a third bomb would be his.

The inhabitants of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were subjects of the Emperor and, so it went, were expected to give their lives for the preservation of his line. It’s a pity that custom did not dictate that he would make a reciprocal gesture, accept an unconditional surrender months earlier, and suffer whatever consequences might follow.

Of course, the imperial system was fictional in the first place and the Emperor and his coterie were realists who wished to come out of the war with minimum personal losses however great the suffering of “His” people might be to accomplish that.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

dare I suggest revenge.

You can, but you'd be wrong. The reason was to quickly end the war. There are tons and tons of documentary evidence from all sides showing very clearly this was the main reason for the decision to use the a-bombs.

Japan has the only constitution dedicated to peace.

Written entirely by Americans, although some Japanese policymakers today want to change that aspect of the constitution.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

The reason was to quickly end the war. There are tons and tons of documentary evidence from all sides showing very clearly this was the main reason for the decision to use the a-bombs.

BS. Any countries engaged in WARS wished ending it quickly.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

"Non-violence is the only thing that the atom bomb cannot destroy" - Mahatma Gandhi

1 ( +1 / -0 )

What did the Government of China or North Korea learn from Hiroshima and Nagasaki nothing,

In many respects they carried on where the then imperial Japanese forces left off right to the present day committing atrocities on there own people.

I believe from a my J Grandmother memoirs and diaries, culturally from birth the people served and committed with there lives to the whole not the sum of it parts

At a very basic level the community.

All would have given there lives to preserve this culture. Many without question.

However when faced with possible annihilation the Imperil Government capitulated to unconditional surrender.

It was a unbearable humiliation for many older members of the community to this day.

Typhoon of Steel: Reflecting on Battle of Okinawa 76 years after official end (Pt. 1)

https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20210621/p2a/00m/0na/023000c

There are ten parts. The people of Japan paid a truly shocking price.

For there own survival.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Hiroshima and Nagasaki, produced  the horror, to bringing the need for a Japan-US slaughtering ground war.

Japan, men between the ages of 14 and 45 were mobilized as soldiers, while women from age 15 to those in their 40s were assigned paramilitary duties.

No surrender.

The reality came within seconds from above, the single sound of a Martin-built B-29-45-MO.....and an entire city leveled to a nuclear wasteland.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

SergeyToday  07:13 pm JST

Why was it necessary to throw a bomb when the outcome of the war was already being decided?

Because over 100,000 US, Canadian, British, New Zealand, and Australian prisoners of war were going to die/be killed by the time Japan surrendered.

The atom bombs saved them

That was a good thing, right?

-5 ( +5 / -10 )

There are no innocents on the side of the aggressor.

What about the children, the babies, the unborn?

3 ( +4 / -1 )

The fact is the ~#=:- ignored Japan's repeated appeals to surrender until after they could test a new weapon in densely populated urban areas

The people who claim that Japan was offering to surrender fail to mention they offered to surrender conditionally. While that might have flown in 1942 when they still had a credible chance of victory, in 1945, they were in no position to dictate terms. The allies knew they held all the cards and in the Potsdam Declaration, stated that they would accept nothing short of unconditional surrender. Japan chose to ignore the offer and stated they would continue to fight to the last.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Suzuki Kantaro stated in response to the allies demand for surrender with: “"My thinking is that the joint declaration is virtually the same as the Cairo Declaration. The government of Japan does not consider it having any crucial value. We simply mokusatsu-suru. The only alternative for us is to be determined to continue our fight till the end."

1 ( +4 / -3 )

And, as Gen. Douglas MacArthur said, "We should pray for peace." 

You are misinformed. Gen MacArthur was no dove. He wanted to use the bomb to end the Korean War. Here are quotes by MacArthur from a book about MacArthur.

“Of all the campaigns in my life—20 major ones to be exact—the one I felt the most sure of was the one I was deprived of waging properly. I could have won the war in Korea in a maximum of 10 days, once the campaign was under way, and with considerably fewer casualties than were suffered during the so-called truce period. It would have altered the course of history." 

“The enemy’s air would first have been taken out. I would have dropped between 30 to 50 tactical atomic bombs on his air bases and other depots strung across the neck of Manchuria from just across the Yalu at Antung (northwest tip of Korea) to the neighborhood of Hunchun (northeast tip of Korea near the border of the USSR)

“That many bombs would have more than done the job! Dropped under the cover of darkness, when his planes were in for the night, they would have destroyed his air force on the ground, wiped out his maintenance and his airmen. …

MacArthur was a true pacifist. He wanted peace so bad that he considered 30 to 50 bombs. He is a hero.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

@Reynard, if I remember correctly the only condition the Japanese insisted upon was that the Emperor (who had little influence in the war) would not be tried as a war criminal. I think that was a fair offer.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Why was it necessary to throw a bomb when the outcome of the war was already being decided?

Weapons are tested during war. The bomb saved more lives from being lost and at the same time was a product of testing. This is not a multiple choice test in AP history; there can be more than one correct answer.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

The people of Japan paid a truly shocking price.

I believe it was karma. If it weren't for the bombs, they would have paid the price in a different way.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

I believe it was karma. If it weren't for the bombs, they would have paid the price in a different way.

God have mercy! If it's karma many millions, 10s of millions of Americans are headed for a horrible death. I believe if not for the Soviet Union, USA may have done to Japan as it did to native Americans.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

WASUREINAI!!

Can other countries also wasurenai? Why does the Japanese have a problem with her Asian neighbors wasurenaiing?

0 ( +5 / -5 )

What did the Government of China or North Korea learn from Hiroshima and Nagasaki

Get nukes soon!!!

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Were the Japanese in a great hurry to test their samurai swords on the necks of prisoners, and civilians in China?

I haven't looked through the comments carefully but from what I saw, not a single person was excusing, embellishing or whitewashing Japanese crimes in China. I have only seen lots of nasty *+(#0を/ doing that in regard to USA not accepting Japanese attempts to surrender until they could test a new WMD on densely populated urban areas in Japan.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

Way back in the late 70s I was required to read a presentation for physics lessons at middle school. I was assigned to "atom bomb" and so I spent countless hours at libraries. While gathering information about the functioning of the bomb I read lots of stuff about the actual effects of an atomic bomb. I got a "3" rating for my presentation which was not too bad, with a reminder by the teacher that I should stick to history classes.

And I did that.

Instead of pointing the finger at anyone, could we at least agree that war is bad and that everyone engaged in war is or has been comitting war crimes?

2 ( +3 / -1 )

treblanca

Treblinka - an extermination camp built by Germans in occupied Poland. Located not so far from Warsaw. About 800,000 people were murdered between 1942 and 1943.

Again tell us why these two of all the misery from that war deserve to be special?

Because it was used first there. And A bomb proved to be a very effective killer.

Moreover, there is much truth to that that Americans wanted to test the gadget in the field.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

@Reynard, if I remember correctly the only condition the Japanese insisted upon was that the Emperor (who had little influence in the war) would not be tried as a war criminal. I think that was a fair offer.

Not exactly. The condition was that the emperor would remain the ruler of the empire. The conditions the allies set was that the emperor would have to renounce his divinity and, consequently, his divine right to rule. There were those who wanted to hang hirohito and MacArthur refused, but that was not a condition the Japanese set. That was a unilateral move by MacArthur himself after the surrender was finalized

4 ( +6 / -2 )

I’ve written this comment seemingly yearly, but I’ll do it again anyway. Setting aside the MORAL underpinnings of the bombings, the atomic bombings did not, at the time of occupancy, constitute a war crime. During the war, aerial carpet bombing was within the laws of war. You’ll note that despite all the terror it inflicted, the nazis weren’t tried for the Blitz. Thats because of a simple set of facts.

The idea that the atomic bombings were a war crime is a post-war idea. Literally. Many people (in these comments, too), claim it was a crime because most of the casualties were civilian and that civilian deaths were out of proportion to the military necessity. That is called ‘the concept of proportionality”. Under this concept, the bombings WOULD be a crime, but that concept was not made international law until the Fourth Geneva Convention. Which was ratified IN 1949. The laws that governed prior to that were. Among others, The Hague Convention of 1907, which governed the bombardment of civilian cities by land and sea based artillery. Because military air power did not exist. After the First World War, there was a punch to include aerial bombardment in the convention, but all major powers pushed back, not wanting to limit this newfound power. So the HC1907 was basically just applied to aerial bombing just like the artillery.

so what does HC1907 say? You can bombard a civilian city if 3 conditions are met. 1. Civilians must be warned. 2. There must be military targets. 3. The city must be a defended city.

How countries interpreted these conditions varied. In the bombings, condition 1 was satisfied, as the US dropped leaflets over every city they intended to bomb. Condition two was satisfied by the fact that Hiroshima was the HQ of the Second General Army and a major naval base while Nagasaki was a factory city where 90% of the workforce was employed in war industries. Condition 3 was satisfied by the fact that both cities had considerable anti-air defenses. The Americans sometimes stretched the definition of ‘defended’ to include any city within range of a Japanese airbase, but this stretching wasn’t necessary for Hiroshima and Nagasaki. And while the bombings certainly contributed to ending the war, they were not actually dropped with that intention. That was a best case scenario and you don’t fight a war planning around the best case. The bones were dropped with the idea that even after that, an invasion of Japan would still be necessary, so targets were chosen to help with the invasion. The Second General Army was a 400,000 strong unit that guarded the landing sites in Kyushu, so Hiroshima was destroyed to decapitate the units the US expected to face on the beaches. Nagasaki was hit because it’s topography had prevented any substantial damage from previous bombing raids, so it’s industry was intact.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Nuclear scientists participated in the Manhattan Project positively to forestall Nazi Germany from developing atomic bombs ahead of the U.S. But when Germany was defeated in 1944, it turned out that Hitler had already abandoned a plan to develop atomic bombs.

That news, together with Nazi Germany's surrender, made many scientists leave Los Alamos National Lab because they thought it was meaningless to continue developing atomic bombs now that the threat of attacks by Germany was gone.

A discussion was held at Los Alamos to assess the feasibility of using atomic bombs against Japan and 70 scientists signed a petition urging President Harry S. Truman not to use the newly developed atomic bombs. It’s said that that petition didn’t reach Truman, who decided to execute the gruesome plan to drop the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Hakata, an industrial city on northern Kyushu, was the original target of the second atomic bomb attack, but the pilots changed the target from Hakata to Nagasaki on the spot because Hakata was shrouded with thick clouds when they reached skies over the city.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

@voice

Kokura, wasn’t it?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@lucabrasi

Actually, Nagasaki wasn't even on the original list. Nagasaki was placed on the list after Kyoto was removed. Kyoto was the original first target, with Kokura as the back-up. When Kyoto was removed because the fire-bombings had basically no military infrastructure.. So Kokura became the primary target because of the Kokura Arsenal complex, the second largest arsenal after Nagoya. Nagasaki was selected as the backup because it had been spared any real bombing. This was because the topography interfered with American pathfinding radar that guided the bomber streams at night. Ironically, this topography also shielded a large portion of the city from the blast, meaning that the casualty count was lower despite the bomb having a hire yield.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Kyoto was the original first target of the second bomb*. To be clear.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Thanks, Reynard.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

However, what is clear is, where it was drop? Then....??

@Spartan J

Hiroshima was chosen because it was a major Japanese naval base, over ten thousand troops, and the HQ of the Second General Army. The SGA was a 400,000 strong unit deployed in Kyushu, one of only two possible landing sites for the invasion of Japan. Therefor Hiroshima was bombed to decapitate the SGA to throw it into disarray in preparation for the invasion.

Nagasaki was not the original target of Fat Man. In fact, Nagasaki was not even on the list of targets initially. Nagasaki only made it onto the list after Kyoto was removed, citing a lack of military infrastructure. Nagasakiw as added because it had escaped major damage because the topography interfered with American pathfinding radar used to guide the bomber streams. Nagasaki had a large number of military industrail sites and 90% of the workforce was employed in military industries. Nagasaki was made the backup target, with the primary target being Kokura and the Kokura Arsenal complex, the second largest arsenal in Japan after Nagoya. However, Kokura was obscured by smoke from a previous conventional raid, so Bockscar attacked Nagasaki.

So yeah, it IS clear why the bombs were dropped where they were. They didn't just pick a big city and go "eh, nuke it".

1 ( +1 / -0 )

ReynardFoxToday  09:11 am JST

@lucabrasi

Actually, Nagasaki wasn't even on the original list. Nagasaki was placed on the list after Kyoto was removed. Kyoto was the original first target, with Kokura as the back-up. When Kyoto was removed because the fire-bombings had basically no military infrastructure.. So Kokura became the primary target because of the Kokura Arsenal complex, the second largest arsenal after Nagoya. Nagasaki was selected as the backup because it had been spared any real bombing. This was because the topography interfered with American pathfinding radar that guided the bomber streams at night. Ironically, this topography also shielded a large portion of the city from the blast, meaning that the casualty count was lower despite the bomb having a hire yield.

Yourself is actually proving that Japanese civilians were not actually warned in advance by the leaflets.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

@kennyG

Uh, not sure how you came to that conclusion. All Japanese cities that were subject to bombing were first bombarded with leaflets warning civilians that if they remained in cities that had military industries, they would be killed. This included citizens of all cities marked for atomic bombing AND those subject to conventional bombing. Just because Nagasaki was able to escape severe damage from nighttime raids does NOT mean it wasn’t attacked and does NOT mean propaganda leaflets weren’t dropped. Propaganda leaflets were dropped during the day, because that was when people were more likely to encounter and read them. Because they were dropped during the day, Nagasaki’s topography didn’t prevent the dropping of such leaflets. The citizens of Nagasaki were warned that if they remained in the city - if they continued to work in the military industries in the city - they risked death from the air.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

ReynardFox,

Your posts seem to suggest the dropping of the atomic bombs is justified because target cities were selected on the basis of how much they are related with the military. 

Note, however, that the bombs can't be dropped on military facilities only in a pinpoint manner. Even if it can, the explosion destroys civilian sectors many times more indiscriminately and horribly. 

And, indeed, that's what happened to Hiroshima and Nagasaki in August 1945.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Uh, not sure how you came to that conclusion. All Japanese cities that were subject to bombing were first bombarded with leaflets warning civilians that if they remained in cities that had military industries, they would be killed. This included citizens of all cities marked for atomic bombing AND those subject to conventional bombing. Just because Nagasaki was able to escape severe damage from nighttime raids does NOT mean it wasn’t attacked and does NOT mean propaganda leaflets weren’t dropped. Propaganda leaflets were dropped during the day, because that was when people were more likely to encounter and read them. Because they were dropped during the day, Nagasaki’s topography didn’t prevent the dropping of such leaflets. The citizens of Nagasaki were warned that if they remained in the city - if they continued to work in the military industries in the city - they risked death from the air.

So, please enlighten us all. What day and time exactly, US dropped such leaflets onto Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

I am not talking about printed one or time-stamped on that leaflet if any which means nothing. It is so easy to cover up the facts to pretend to have followed HC1907. Damn dropping whatever at almost the same time means nothing.

Also, what exactly do you want to say by referring to HC1907 of which atomic bombs far surpassed the entire scope of the treaty by excusing what? air-defended city?

3 ( +4 / -1 )

@ReynardFox

Off the topic a bit, but those didn't mind dropping oranges indiscriminately in Vietnam, do you genuinely believe them followed the rule ( YES sounds so awkward but rules for the play to kill each other)?

Which by the way was all against the rule. Did US drop the leaflets well in advance then?

US is currently dealing with dictatorship countries, rejecting the only condition to surrender which was merely sustaining Emperor System cannot absolutely release you from moral hazard.

How come a member of Manhattan project, an old man on board Enola Gay. It was simply human experimentation the guy was desperately wanted to watch and feel the product

5 ( +5 / -0 )

US is currently dealing with dictatorship countries, rejecting the only condition to surrender which was merely sustaining Emperor System cannot absolutely release you from moral hazard.

I messed up.

I meant, US knew the Emperor was just a symbol even then, unconditional surrender rejected is just a excuse to finish this experimentation to pay off all the debts accumulated and pre-warning against Soviet.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

All that is necessary to feel WWII for Japan is to watch Ghibli's 火垂るの墓 (Grave of the Fireflies, with subtitles (no raucous English voices)), if you can stand it...when I think of it, I must immediately shut off the thought or I'll start leaking hot tears...

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Anyone here think it would have been ok to trade off the lives of over 100,000 Americans, Canadians, Brits, Aussies for the lives of the enemy, Japanese? I don't.

-11 ( +1 / -12 )

*All that is necessary to feel WWII for Japan is to watch Ghibli's 火垂るの墓 (Grave of the Fireflies, with subtitles (no raucous English voices)), if you can stand it...when I think of it, I must immediately shut off the thought or I'll start leaking hot tears...*

Japan starts a war. Commits mass murder, torture, rape in occupied countries, looses the war, and then produces cartoon films to tell us all about the horrors of war. Are these people for real.

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

Japan starts a war. Commits mass murder, torture, rape in occupied countries, looses the war, and then produces cartoon films to tell us all about the horrors of war. Are these people for real.

The Japanese military starts a war. Commits mass murder, torture, rape in occupied countries, loses the war.

Forty-three years later a Japanese individual who was ten years old at the end of the war, who saw for himself the horrors of war and who committed no murder, torture or rape, and who found war to be as abhorrent as all decent people do, produces a cartoon film to tell the next generation all about the horrors of war.

The people who committed war crimes and the people who speak out about the horrors of war are not the same people. Why would you lump them together as ‘these people’?

8 ( +10 / -2 )

Alan Harrison (Today  04:02 pm JST),

Japan starts a war. Commits mass murder, torture, rape in occupied countries, looses the war, and then produces cartoon films to tell us all about the horrors of war. Are these people for real.

I think the cartoon film and the semi-documentary novel on which the cartoon was based was novelist Akiyoshi Nosaka's message that there is no just war whenever and wherever. But, on your part as Americans, that war was a just and righteous one, and so dropping atomic bombs on innocent civilians in Hiroshima and Nagasaki was nothing wrong.

You say Japan started the war, and committed murder and various atrocity in occupied countries. Can you dare say the U.S. never does such follies whenever and wherever?

Come to Okinawa. The pseudo-occupation by U.S. forces, a sort of retaliation, is still going on 76 years after the end of World War II.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

I think the cartoon film and the semi-documentary novel on which the cartoon was based was novelist Akiyoshi Nosaka's message that there is no just war whenever and wherever. But, on your part as Americans, that war was a just and righteous one, and so dropping atomic bombs on innocent civilians in Hiroshima and Nagasaki was nothing wrong.

The decision to drop an atomic bomb was not taken lightly. Japan, at that time was also developing and researching nuclear fusion. Any regime which could set up such a unit as unit 731 would not hesitate to use an atomic bomb without seeing anything wrong.

You say Japan started the war, and committed murder and various atrocity in occupied countries. Can you dare say the U.S. never does such follies whenever and wherever?

Well, nothing lile Unit 731 has ever existed in the USA.

Come to Okinawa. The pseudo-occupation by U.S. forces, a sort of retaliation, is still going on 76 years after the end of World War II.

US is troops stationed in Okinawa (incidently I have been to Okinawa) is not an occupation. The US presence is a defence arrangement with the Japanese government.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

Every year the same discussion, and no one ever changes their mind. Afaic, it is one these dilemmas for which there is no good answer. Yes, the nuclear bombings were terrible, but yes on balance they saved lifes.

I fail to see how one can have a simple answer for that.

I do find the way the Hiroshima govmt pushes the issue into everybodys face all the time in bad taste though. Nagasaki had the same faith but deals with the issue in a more subdued and respectful way.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

voiceofokinawaToday  05:26 pm JST

You say Japan started the war, and committed murder and various atrocity in occupied countries. Can you dare say the U.S. never does such follies whenever and wherever?

They didn't start WWII

Come to Okinawa. The pseudo-occupation by U.S. forces, a sort of retaliation, is still going on 76 years after the end of World War II.

Occupation? They are here by invite from the Japanese government.

And Okinawa is a better place because of it.

High paying jobs for thousands of locals, well-kept land, which otherwise would be turned into the mess that Naha is.

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

Alan Harrison,

Any regime which could set up such a unit as unit 731 would not hesitate to use an atomic bomb without seeing anything wrong

Taking your words at face value, since the U.S. used atomic bombs, it must have had a unit not very different from IJA's Unit 731. Medical doctors and researchers with the said Unit were exonerated from their crime as war criminals after the war because they gave all the research data to U.S. authorities, probably the Fort Detrick Lab, in exchange of their life.

US is troops stationed in Okinawa (incidently I have been to Okinawa) is not an occupation. The US presence is a defence arrangement with the Japanese government.

U.S. troops are stationed in Okinawa in accordance with the 1971 Okinawa Reversion Agreement, which guaranteed the U.S. to keep its military presence and to not pay any indemnity that had incurred during the occupation. USFO is now effectively incorporated into USFJ whereby their legal status falls under the Japan-U.S. Security Treaty (Article 6), too.

But that agreement is hanky-panky, a shenanigan to camouflage the real state of affairs. As during the occupation era, the U.S. forces can use bases and areas for whatever purposes they may want -- with impunity and for free at that.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

@cleo

Why would you lump them together as ‘these people’?

Well, I guess they will continue to be lumped together as "these people" as long as they keep whitewashing the past and presenting a skewed and distorted picture of it (which doesn't seem likely to change any time soon).

Also, I agree with what has already been said above: given how Japan keeps urging its neighbors to "move on", maybe it's time for Japan to do the same and stop harping on about its "victimhood"? After all, it got no more than it deserved.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

U.S. troops are stationed in Okinawa in accordance with the 1971 Okinawa Reversion Agreement, which guaranteed the U.S. to keep its military presence and to not pay any indemnity that had incurred during the occupation. USFO is now effectively incorporated into USFJ whereby their legal status falls under the Japan-U.S. Security Treaty (Article 6), too.

But that agreement is hanky-panky, a shenanigan to camouflage the real state of affairs. As during the occupation era, the U.S. forces can use bases and areas for whatever purposes they may want -- with impunity and for free at that.

You are tacitly admitting the US is not occupying Okinawa. Japan had a choice wether the US stayed or went; occupied countries do not have this choice.

It seems to me you need to grind your axe with the Japanese government, not the US or its military.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

I do find the way the Hiroshima govmt pushes the issue into everybodys face all the time in bad taste though. Nagasaki had the same faith but deals with the issue in a more subdued and respectful way.

Agreed, Nagasaki is far more mature and geniune in dealing with the issue.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

The Japanese military starts a war. Commits mass murder, torture, rape in occupied countries, loses the war.

Why don't you just stop pretending to be a humanistic justice hero, will you?

As if it was only Japan that is to be blamed. Look back at the Asian Map before WW2, how many independent countries did exist in Asia that hadn't suffered mass murder, torture, rape, exploitation and all that done by ugly Western colonizers? Huh?

A small islands country in the far east, one of two rare uncolonized sovereign countries existed then was forced to make a choice between to get the heck out of their lands they brutally invaded or to make 1st strike to survive such brutal era. Unless Japan had guts to chose the latter, their people would have been speaking Russians or English since long time ago.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Don't most Japanese people recognize their government pushed America to the brink where it was going to have to invade Japan if there was no surrender?

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

kennyGToday  09:41 pm JST

The Japanese military starts a war. Commits mass murder, torture, rape in occupied countries, loses the war.

Why don't you just stop pretending to be a humanistic justice hero, will you?

Your anger is pointed at the incorrect poster. Cleo was correcting the original poster who was blaming all Japanese peiple, which was obvious from her post.

*As if it was only Japan that is to be blamed. Look back at the Asian Map before WW2, how many independent countries did exist in Asia that hadn't suffered mass murder, torture, rape, exploitation and all that done by ugly Western colonizers? Huh?*

Tow wrong don’t make a right. All parties involved in such activities should be ashamed; you’re simply trying to excuse Japan’s actions.

A small islands country in the far east, one of two rare uncolonized sovereign countries existed then was forced to make a choice between to get the heck out of their lands they brutally invaded or to make 1st strike to survive such brutal era. Unless Japan had guts to chose the latter, their people would have been speaking Russians or English since long time ago.

Japan wasn’t forced to make the choice between attacking the US or leaving the land it conquered in Asia. The US simply cut off exports to Japan; Japan should have thought about that before it started rampaging around Asia.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

XuluxToday  09:46 pm JST

Don't most Japanese people recognize their government pushed America to the brink where it was going to have to invade Japan if there was no surrender?

No. They are taught that Japan had no choice but to attack the US because the US cut off vital oil supplies and metal exports. Add to the fact that a lot of Japanese people are too intellectually lazy to research things on their own due to being acculturated to simply accept what older people tell the and you get some odd thinking about WWII.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

P. SmithToday  09:56 pm JST

kennyGToday  09:41 pm JST

The Japanese military starts a war. Commits mass murder, torture, rape in occupied countries, loses the war.

Why don't you just stop pretending to be a humanistic justice hero, will you?

Your anger is pointed at the incorrect poster. Cleo was correcting the original poster who was blaming all Japanese peiple, which was obvious from her post.

Of course I knew it. I just borrowed a part from cleo as original post got deleted.

As if it was only Japan that is to be blamed. Look back at the Asian Map before WW2, how many independent countries did exist in Asia that hadn't **suffered mass murder, torture, rape, exploitation and all that done by ugly Western colonizers**? Huh?

Tow wrong don’t make a right. All parties involved in such activities should be ashamed; you’re simply trying to excuse Japan’s actions.

If all parties involved should be ashamed, there would not be frequently repeated phrase like that as if

they all are intellectually lazy and think the history started only from WW2.

A small islands country in the far east, one of two rare uncolonized sovereign countries existed then was forced to make a choice between to get the heck out of their lands they brutally invaded or to make 1st strike to survive such brutal era. Unless Japan had guts to chose the latter, their people would have been speaking Russians or English since long time ago.

Japan wasn’t forced to make the choice between attacking the US or leaving the land it conquered in Asia. The US simply cut off exports to Japan; Japan should have thought about that before it started rampaging around Asia.

Think from the point of view during those days. Ultimatum " Take our 10 points or no more diplomacy and everything will be in the hands of our military" is basically Declaration of war

Don’t be intellectually lazy person. Check what are those 10points.

Heck, human history was bloody war history for long long time. The world was almost perfectly divided up by ugly Western colonizers and Asians and Africans have been all salves to them and suffered mass murders, tortures, Rape, forced labor, mental abuse, and all that. In such era, what would you do to survive?

You and your ilks are the ones intellectually lazy, Gen MacArthur knew better than you folks.

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If all parties involved should be ashamed, there would not be frequently repeated phrase like that as if

they all are intellectually lazy and think the history started only from WW2.

Your complaint seems to be with the Ministry of Education because it is responsible for the content Japanese people learn not posters on JT.

Think from the point of view during those days. Ultimatum " Take our 10 points or no more diplomacy and everything will be in the hands of our military" is basically Declaration of war

10 reasonable demands Japan could have easily followed is not a declaration of war.

Heck, human history was bloody war history for long long time. The world was almost perfectly divided up by ugly Western colonizers and Asians and Africans have been all salves to them and suffered mass murders, tortures, Rape, forced labor, mental abuse, and all that. In such era, what would you do to survive? 

Japan wasn’t under threat of attack, just an economic embargo to slow its rape of Asia. You’re also falling back on the “two wrongs make aright” argument. That’s awesome argument.

You and your ilks are the ones intellectually lazy, Gen MacArthur knew better than you folks.

My ilk is intellectually lazy, but we destroy your logically false arguments with facts. Makes sense.

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P. Smith (Today  07:54 pm JST),

When the Japanese delegation spearheaded by P.M. Shigeru Yoshida went to San Francisco to sign the Peace Treaty, the all 6 members of the delegation signed it. That evening, the delegation was whisked away to an Army barrack in the city to sign another document, the original Japan-U.S. Security Treaty, the English text of which had been given them only several hours before. Yoshida alone was well versed in English but other delegates needed the translation of it.

So, when time came to sign it, Yoshida told the other members of the delegation that he alone would sign it, saying he would take full responsibility if something undesirable with the treaty might happen in the future. It's more than apparent then that Japan didn't have no other choice but sign it in order to recover independence however nominal the independence may have been. The same with the 1971 Okinawa Reversion Agreement. Unless you sign it, you cannot recover its sovereignty.

Thus, your remarks that "Japan had a choice (as to) whether the US stayed or went; occupied countries do not have this choice" are completely off the mark.

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Thus, your remarks that "Japan had a choice (as to) whether the US stayed or went; occupied countries do not have this choice" are completely off the mark.

Japan should have thought about theses things before it attacked a technologically superior country 25 times larger than it.

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voiceofokinawaToday  11:20 pm JST

It's more than apparent then that Japan didn't have no other choice but sign it in order to recover independence however nominal the independence may have been. The same with the 1971 Okinawa Reversion Agreement. Unless you sign it, you cannot recover its sovereignty.

Japan had the choice to not act savagely towards its neighbors, and to not bomb the US.

Japan had the choice to surrender before we dropped the atomic bombs. The US had the choice to act as savagely as Japan, and to colonize the entire country or enslave its people. But it didn't.

Japanese women were holding signs that said Thank you MacArthur as he rode through the streets of Tokyo, because they were freed from oppression by Japanese men, and knew their society would be changing for the better.

Japan owes the United States a big thanks for ending the war quickly with those atomic bombs.

Okinawa too is freer and in a better position in every area because of the US influence.

Let's face it--Japanese love America and Americans and so do the Okinawans.

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Your posts seem to suggest the dropping of the atomic bombs is justified because target cities were selected on the basis of how much they are related with the military. 

Note, however, that the bombs can't be dropped on military facilities only in a pinpoint manner. Even if it can, the explosion destroys civilian sectors many times more indiscriminately and horribly. 

And, indeed, that's what happened to Hiroshima and Nagasaki in August 1945

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Ah accidentally hit post

Your posts seem to suggest the dropping of the atomic bombs is justified because target cities were selected on the basis of how much they are related with the military. 

Note, however, that the bombs can't be dropped on military facilities only in a pinpoint manner. Even if it can, the explosion destroys civilian sectors many times more indiscriminately and horribly. 

And, indeed, that's what happened to Hiroshima and Nagasaki in August 1945

Im leaving aside the debate on the morality. That’s up to each person and totally subjective. My post was aimed at the people claiming it constituted a war crime, seeming based on the idea that a war crime is “a lot of civilians died”. Which it wasn’t. I explained that the concept of proportionality, which you mention indirectly above, was not a law of war until 1949. There’s a reason no Nazis hung for the Blitz.

@kennyG

I’ll do you one better, here is the actual text of the leaflets dropped over Japanese cities, including Nagasaki, directly after Hiroshima was destroyed . You can infer the dates based on that.

TO THE JAPANESE PEOPLE:

America asks that you take immediate heed of what we say on this leaflet.

We are in possession of the most destructive explosive ever devised by man. A single one of our newly developed atomic bombs is actually the equivalent in explosive power to what 2000 of our giant B-29s can carry on a single mission. This awful fact is one for you to ponder and we solemnly assure you it is grimly accurate.

We have just begun to use this weapon against your homeland. If you still have any doubt, make inquiry as to what happened to Hiroshima when just one atomic bomb fell on that city.

Before using this bomb to destroy every resource of the military by which they are prolonging this useless war, we ask that you now petition the Emperor to end the war. Our president has outlined for you the thirteen consequences of an honorable surrender. We urge that you accept these consequences and begin the work of building a new, better and peace-loving Japan.

You should take steps now to cease military resistance. Otherwise, we shall resolutely employ this bomb and all our other superior weapons to promptly and forcefully end the war.

EVACUATE YOUR CITIES.

ATTENTION JAPANESE PEOPLE. EVACUATE YOUR CITIES.

Because your military leaders have rejected the thirteen part surrender declaration, two momentous events have occurred in the last few days.

The Soviet Union, because of this rejection on the part of the military has notified your Ambassador Sato that it has declared war on your nation. Thus, all powerful countries of the world are now at war with you.

Also, because of your leaders' refusal to accept the surrender declaration that would enable Japan to honorably end this useless war, we have employed our atomic bomb.

A single one of our newly developed atomic bombs is actually the equivalent in explosive power to what 2000 of our giant B-29s could have carried on a single mission. Radio Tokyo has told you that with the first use of this weapon of total destruction, Hiroshima was virtually destroyed.

Before we use this bomb again and again to destroy every resource of the military by which they are prolonging this useless war, petition the emperor now to end the war. Our president has outlined for you the thirteen consequences of an honorable surrender. We urge that you accept these consequences and begin the work of building a new, better, and peace-loving Japan.

Act at once or we shall resolutely employ this bomb and all our other superior weapons to promptly and forcefully end the war.

EVACUATE YOUR CITIES.

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I'm a schoolboy going to school. I hear an airplane and look up. Then I see a bright flash of light and then I'm knocked to the ground by the shock wave. But the pain does not last long because a few seconds later, I'm vaporized.

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 I guess they will continue to be lumped together as "these people" as long as they keep whitewashing the past and presenting a skewed and distorted picture of it 

Yet all the folk who object to the Yasukuni visits, all the folk who insist on telling it like it was, all the folk who campaign to prevent changes to the Constitution in an effort to prevent militarization, still get lumped in with ‘these people’….

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Because your military leaders have rejected the thirteen part surrender declaration, two momentous events have occurred in the last few days.

The Soviet Union, because of this rejection on the part of the military has notified your Ambassador Sato that it has declared war on your nation. Thus, all powerful countries of the world are now at war with you.

Also, because of your leaders' refusal to accept the surrender declaration that would enable Japan to honorably end this useless war, we have employed our atomic bomb.

Thanks but no thanks for what gives nothing useful to infer the dates and time for Hiroshima (August 6 8:30 AM Japan time) and Thanks for what proves the leaflets were not meant to pre-warn Japanese citizen in

advance and letting them evacuate the city for Nagasaki( August 9 11:00AM Japan Time)

Key words: *two momentous events have occurred in the last few days.*

*Key words2: *The Soviet Union, because of this rejection on the part of the military has notified your Ambassador Sato that it has declared war on your nation.(August 8 11:00PM Japan time)

Key words3: we have employed our atomic bomb. (August 6 8:30 AM Japan time)

Key words4: Nagasaki( August 9 11:00AM Japan Time)

As expected, the leaflets were dropped on the spot of or after dropping the bombs to cover all things up.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

P. Smith,

Japan should have thought about theses things before it attacked a technologically superior country 25 times larger than it.

Tell that to Japan's war-time leaders and their ideological descendants, post-war right-wingers, who have penchant for old times and are intent on rearming Japan, ironically with the help of the willing U.S.

 

Commodore Perry,

Japan had the choice . . . to not bomb the US.

It was a typical case of "A cornered rat will bite a cat." Maybe, Roosevelt was conspiring to trap Japan to attack the U.S. so that it could enter the war with a justified reason and with a full support of the nation.

Japanese women were holding signs that said Thank you MacArthur as he rode through the streets of Tokyo, because they were freed from oppression by Japanese men, and knew their society would be changing for the better.

MacArthur emulated the emperor to rule post-war Japan, fully controlling the Japanese mind.

So, it was really shocking for a man and a woman on the street that such a revered man should be sacked and fired by a provincial U.S. President. 

As its concurrent supreme commander MacArthur should have come to Okinawa once but he never set foot in Okinawa. Post-war Japan was extremely short of food and in order to alleviate the problem MacArthur decreed Okinawa residents living in mainland Japan to evacuate to more war-devastated Okinawa where there was no farm to till any more and naturally no food to eat.

So, from the Okinawan perspectives, he was no demi-god, simply a wolf in a sheep fur.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Tell that to Japan's war-time leaders and their ideological descendants, post-war right-wingers, who have penchant for old times and are intent on rearming Japan, ironically with the help of the willing U.S.

This is irrelevant to your claims that Japan had to attack the US and that Okinawa is occupied. Please try to stay on topic instead of deflecting and obfuscating.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

While I believe the atomic bombings are among the absolute worst war crimes in history and darkest acts of humanity, I am glad Japan was not given the green light to mark a moment of silence for them at the beginning. If they TRULY wish to do so, they have to mark HOURS or silence for the atrocities Japan committed that ultimately led to the bombings, including forced suicides in Okinawa, sexual slavery, and more. And they would also have to accept other nations doing the same, and I doubt Japan wants to mark a moment of silence for the victims of Nanjing next year in China.

Also, it is no surprise Suga skipped that part of the speech, consciously or not -- Japan is not actually committed to peace without nuclear weapons, since they refuse to sign a treaty banning them, and so they cannot use that "as the only nation to have suffered atomic bombings..." schtick anymore.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

P. Smith (Today  09:26 am JST),

It was the Great Empire of Japan that attacked Pearl Harbor by surprise. It is this Great Empire of Japan that post-war right-wingers feel most nostalgic for. It is they who the U.S. feels the closest affinity with. In other words, Japan’s right-wingers and the U.S. establishment today are all part of the same gang. They are all imperialists. 

You claim that I am deflecting and obfuscating the issue. Am I? Never, ever.

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