national

IWC panel: Japan's Antarctic whale hunt still not convincing

63 Comments
By MARI YAMAGUCHI

The requested article has expired, and is no longer available. Any related articles, and user comments are shown below.

© Copyright 2015 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

©2019 GPlusMedia Inc.

63 Comments
Login to comment

An International Whaling Commission panel said Monday that Japan’s revised plan for research whaling in the Antarctic still lacks a convincing explanation of why it needs to kill the mammals.

Uh, duh, IWC what are you missing? The "convincing explanation of why it needs to kill the mammals" is because the Japanese want to eat them. Was before, is now, and will be forever. Everything else is just a smoke-screen.

15 ( +22 / -7 )

Japan said the goal of its plan is to obtain highly accurate data to determine sustainable minke catch quotas and study the ecology of the Antarctic.

This simply HAS to be one of the most absurd pieces of scientific logic I have ever seen. The insult, of course, is that they think the international community are stupid enough to buy it. 'We must kill 333 whales a year to prove they exist in the Antarctic and are healthy!'. It is a nonsense.

The scientific committee isn't political, it's just interested in proper.....science.

14 ( +18 / -4 )

“The scientific committee is more political than the panel,” he said. “I won’t be surprised if we face some countries that oppose our plans not because of science,” Morishita said.

then it would be easy for Japan to make an under-the-table deal.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Yeah, it's pretty simple really. Japan doesn't want to collect data. They want to collect meat!

Their whole stance is quite daft! They are using a research allowed ruling put in place by the anti-commercial whaling organization to research the viability of commercial whaling. "Eh? You say what?"

7 ( +10 / -3 )

The Japanese argument is "the more we kill the more we can save, and the more we save the more we can kill..."

9 ( +13 / -4 )

"We had to destroy the village to save it."

4 ( +7 / -3 )

Japan must think the world is stupid.

How can anybody buy this argument? Pride and arrogance fuels them.

Give it up Japan. It will do a hell of a lot of good for your international reputation.

9 ( +13 / -4 )

Japan just needs to quit the IWC in which non-whaling and anti-whaling nations outnumber whaling nations in an organization whose charter is supposed to be to oversee the conservation of whales stocks in order to enable responsible and sustainable commercial whaling, not ban it outright indefinitely. The IWC hasn't periodically reviewed the moratorium on commercial whaling since its inception in 1982 to see if it is still applicable today. It has ceased to be an organization which promotes commercial whaling and it has done nothing itself to research whether whale stocks have become healthy enough to enable the resumption of commercial whaling. Why would any nation, like Japan, that wants to commercially hunt whales again remain in such an organization? How would it benefit from being a member state?

-2 ( +7 / -9 )

There is nothing scientific about Japan's "research whaling". They are destroying the majestic animals of the oceans.

7 ( +13 / -6 )

The "convincing explanation of why it needs to kill the mammals" is because the Japanese want to eat them.

...except that most Japanese don't! A handful of influential people make a very comfortable living thank you very much out of the 'research', and they don't want it to stop.

The loophole allows for whales to be killed 'for the purpose of scientific research'. The more effort Japan makes to tweak its 'research' programme in an attempt to make it 'more scientific', the more they admit that the purpose of the hunt is not scientific research. The purpose is to kill whales and bring the meat home, leaving the rest of the carcass in the water. And they should stop it.

9 ( +14 / -5 )

research into deliciousity is SOOO under-appreciated. :-(

4 ( +5 / -1 )

i think the amount of whales that japan wants to kill in order to produce "scientific research" is the main problem here. the iwc has no problem with killing whales for research as it has permits for such activities.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

I wish that Japan would just quit the IWC.

It should quit and just catch whales on its sustainable basis instead.

The government simply doesn't have the money to waste participating in these endless IWC meetings with a bunch of hypocrites who have no intention of ever permitting whaling again, no matter how many hundreds of thousands there are, and no matter how few Japanese interests want to catch.

So just quit, and issue whaling permits for sustainable whaling. The market will then decide whether the whaling sinks or swims. Personally I've had some fried whale and I thought it was damn good, so I'd be happy to pay.

But that's none of the government's business. The only thing the government should pay for is defense of Japanese vessels in international waters against those idiots that attack them.

-4 ( +8 / -12 )

There is no logic for so much effort to sustain and financially support the Japanese whale industry considering that many Japanese people have never had any interest in consuming whale meat. Also a deliberate dearth of information and news by Japanese media about whale hunting? One of those "hush hush" topics.

8 ( +11 / -3 )

A handful of influential people make a very comfortable living thank you very much out of the 'research', and they don't want it to stop

I have to agree with you but I'm cynical enough about politics to agree with you.....uh....

2 ( +2 / -0 )

"Japan’s actual catch has fallen in recent years in part because of declining domestic demand for whale meat. Protests by the anti-whaling group Sea Shepherd also contributed to the lower catch. The government has spent large amounts of tax money to sustain whaling operations."

Now THAT says everything about Japan's 'science' and numbers collection on the issue. Demand for the meat is down, so the number of catches for 'science' is also down, but the numbers in terms of yen wasted on the programs is still high.

Only in this nation could 'mayonnaise vs. soy-sauce' be called 'science'.

6 ( +12 / -6 )

Welcome the the of Lies..

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

This farce is not about science and its not really even about supplying the demand for whale meat ( as evident by warehouses full of unsold meat from previous catches ). It really is only about a small number of well connected individuals collecting huge govt. ( taxpayer ) subsidies in the name of an "industry " that would long be extinct if it had to compete on purely commercial terms.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

Japan like I have been TELLING you, stick to a bit of coastal whaling & stop wailing all the time!

-2 ( +2 / -5 )

I doubt the fairness of the committee.

Commercial whaling was banned by the whaling commission in 1986,

It was not a "ban" but a moratorium with the following agreement.

10 (e) Notwithstanding the other provisions of paragraph 10, catch limits for the killing for commercial purposes of whales from all stocks for the 1986 coastal and the 1985/86 pelagic seasons and thereafter shall be zero. This provision will be kept under review, based upon the best scientific advice, and by 1990 at the latest the Commission will undertake a comprehensive assessment of the effects of this decision on whale stocks and consider modification of this provision and the establishment of other catch limits.

If IWC does not want the research by Japanese, they should show an alternative to estimate the whale stock to determine the sustainable catch limits as agreed.

Japan should sue those countries which are maliciously delaying eatablishment of new catch limits.

-4 ( +7 / -10 )

Why do you have to kill them to get sustainability data? Can't you do some computer simulations at this point to get the needed data? "Tradition" in some cases simply means, "We have done something stupid and harmful for generations and we want to keep on doing something stupid and harmful."

4 ( +6 / -3 )

Commodore Shmidlap (Retired)Apr. 14, 2015 - 11:14AM JST

Why do you have to kill them to get sustainability data?

It is argued by the whale protectionists that whale stock cannot be estimated unless the "age distribution" is estimated with accuracy. But the only way to estimate the age distribution of whales with accuracy is by leathal examination of their ears.

Or, the whale protectionists should show alternative method of collecting age data.

-5 ( +5 / -9 )

they can always consider stop whaling this year and shift the subsidies to the fukushima area.

5 ( +7 / -3 )

CH3CHO: "If IWC does not want the research by Japanese, they should show an alternative to estimate the whale stock to determine the sustainable catch limits as agreed."

So, you're argument, as is Japan's, is that it's necessary to kill a bunch of whales to estimate how many you could kill? Is it really, and I mean deep down inside, TRULY a wonder to you why everyone in the world says there is no logic and no science in the Japan hunt?

0 ( +5 / -6 )

So, you're argument, as is Japan's, is that it's necessary to kill a bunch of whales to estimate how many you could kill?

The sample size used to create the estimate would be significantly smaller than the estimate, so it's not really an equivalency.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

its not really even about supplying the demand for whale meat ( as evident by warehouses full of unsold meat from previous catches ).

That's a stretch of the truth. The warehouses are full(?) of meat for sale, not full of unsold meat. No one stores anything if there is no purpose for it.

I can understand that people don't like whaling, but in reality Iceland is transporting its whale meat half way around the world to Japan to sell. Now, when say Australia transports its beef to Japan, no one assumes that Japan has a lack of demand for beef. But when Iceland does it with whale, why is the thinking any different?

So there is demand for whale food in Japan, as the warehouses of whale meat, and the Iceland trade illustrates.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Not necessarily. Importation of whale meat from Iceland indicates that there may be a market for it, but it doesn't prove it. There could be political reasons behind the importation of the whale meat from Iceland. Only actual sales numbers will show whether or not there is a market, and how robust it is.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

smithinjapan - So, you're argument, as is Japan's, is that it's necessary to kill a bunch of whales to estimate how many you could kill? Is it really, and I mean deep down inside, TRULY a wonder to you why everyone in the world says there is no logic and no science in the Japan hunt?

Unless you can provide proof, it's not "everyone in the world". It's only a small percentage of highly vocal animal-rights activists who claim that they speak for "everyone in the world".

-10 ( +6 / -15 )

IWC panel: Japan's Antarctic whale hunt still not convincing

Best news I've had all day

1 ( +6 / -6 )

arrestpaul: "Unless you can provide proof, it's not "everyone in the world". It's only a small percentage of highly vocal animal-rights activists who claim that they speak for "everyone in the world"."

Not at all. It's only a few old codgers who profit from government subsidies and don't want to give those up who claim it's only a 'small percentage' of people who are against it. Even the majority of Japanese don't consume whale meat, making even the Japanese whaler's real motivation for killing whales even more pathetic.

fxgai: "So there is demand for whale food in Japan, as the warehouses of whale meat, and the Iceland trade illustrates."

Not at all. There is no reason to import meat when most of the meat from previous catches is still rotting in freezers, except as a political statement and the kind of vapid and transparent moves so expected from this government.

1 ( +7 / -7 )

Importation of whale meat from Iceland indicates that there may be a market for it, but it doesn't prove it.

Yes, but see my point about Aussie beef imports. Why don't people apply a simply common sense judgement where it's whale food that is concerned? It makes no sense that rational people go a bit loopy when whales happen to be involved.

Only actual sales numbers will show whether or not there is a market,

Well "hullo", I'm part of the market. I paid for some fried whale (which was very good).

But again, why this ridiculous discussion about whether something that obviously is, is or not?

Japan should just quit the IWC, unilaterally permit its whalers to catch a safe sustainable number (the number Japan has been catching does not seem to be in question from a sustainability perspective), and whether there is demand or not will determine the number actually caught.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

The "convincing explanation of why it needs to kill the mammals" is because the Japanese want to eat them.

Nope, it's because Japan's government is in the thrall of right-wing groups, and they don't want to be seen to give into gaiatsu, or outside pressure. It's nothing more than a misplaced sense of national pride. The only people who are eating whale and dolphin meat are a few coastal communities and a few nostalgic oyajis.

0 ( +6 / -7 )

in reality if the decision of the commission is to discontinue all whaling then they should just say it.

Arguing if a scientific plan is "good enough" in the court of public opinion is just that- collecting public opinion that was set from some movies years ago.

in this case - if they keep pushing Japan- Japan may leave the IWC and just start whaling again- as there is no real world wide law that everyone needs to be part of the IWC or follow it's rule

0 ( +3 / -3 )

smithinjapan,

It's only a few old codgers who profit from government subsidies and don't want to give those up who claim it's only a 'small percentage' of people who are against it.

Well I'm no "old codger", and do not profit from the subsidies... and I agree it's a small percentage. Just saying.

Even the majority of Japanese don't consume whale meat

Mmm. But there is a "commercial whaling moratorium", which has severely restricted supply of whale meat. It's not like it's farmed meat, like the beef is.

making even the Japanese whaler's real motivation for killing whales even more pathetic.

That's ridiculous. You have just said implicitly that there are Japanese people who consume whale meat, and then turned around and said the "whaler's" motivation is "pathetic".

If there are people eating whales, then why is it "pathetic"?

Let's remove the emotion, and stick to simple common sense reasoning.

Not at all. There is no reason to import meat when most of the meat from previous catches is still rotting in freezers,

Frozen meat in freezers does not rot. And it's no uncommon for food to be stored in freezers temporarily, until it is sold. That is why it is in the freezers - to prevent it from rotting. See? No emotion, just simple common sense. Don't throw out your common sense just because "whale" is part of the story.

except as a political statement and the kind of vapid and transparent moves so expected from this government.

That's just wacky conspriracy theory stuff until proven otherwise. Off you go then, try to find some proof of it.

Christopher Glen,

The only people who are eating whale and dolphin meat are a few coastal communities and a few nostalgic oyajis.

You're obviously wrong. "Hullo".

-3 ( +5 / -7 )

smithinjapanApr. 14, 2015 - 12:13PM JST

So, you're argument, as is Japan's, is that it's necessary to kill a bunch of whales to estimate how many you could kill?

IWC had to estimate the whale stock by 1990, and it is 25 years over due, thanks to unfair delaying efforts by whale protectionist countries such as Australia. Japan has to do its own to estimate the whale stock. If you want to argue from moral point of view, just tell IWC to finish their home work.

Japan no longer needs to do its research whaling when IWC finishes its assessment.

Is it really, and I mean deep down inside, TRULY a wonder to you why everyone in the world says there is no logic and no science in the Japan hunt?

No, not everyone. At least, 4 judges including one French judge agreed to the expalnation by Japan. http://www.icj-cij.org/docket/index.php?p1=3&p2=3&k=64&case=148&code=aj&p3=4

-2 ( +7 / -8 )

At least, 4 judges including one French judge agreed to the expalnation by Japan.

Even if this were the case, it does not mean that Japan's explanation will be convincing

-2 ( +2 / -5 )

There was never any pretence at experimentation or scientific research, as the IWC panel has re-confirmed here.

What is harder to understand is why the Japanese government continues to waste our tax money in supporting an activity that clearly has no economic rationale, is not strongly supported by the Japanese public and irritates so many people and countries around the world, including plenty of individuals in Japan. Plain foolish stubbornness, for literally no reason!

0 ( +3 / -3 )

theeastisredApr. 14, 2015 - 01:48PM JST

There was never any pretence at experimentation or scientific research, as the IWC panel has re-confirmed here.

OK. Then tell me how else can you collect age distribution data of whales?

What is harder to understand is why the Japanese government continues to waste our tax money in supporting an activity that clearly has no economic rationale,

If there were economic rationale, it would be commercial whaling.

is not strongly supported by the Japanese public

Oh, the parilament approved the budget. Is not it enough proof of public support?

and irritates so many people and countries around the world,

Why should they be irritated? There is no concern of extinction of whales. Those people who are irritated are those who LOVE whales.

-7 ( +4 / -11 )

fxgaiAPR. 14, 2015 - 12:36PM JST

Importation of whale meat from Iceland indicates that there may be a market for it, but it doesn't prove it. Yes, but see my point about Aussie beef imports. Why don't people apply a simply common sense judgement where it's whale food that is concerned? It makes no sense that rational people go a bit loopy when whales happen to be involved.

Beef = farmed animal whale = wild animal

See any difference? It's not science you know.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

sounds like all these pro whalers have enough expertise to be a judge on the ICJ or sit on the IWC panel. theres a reason that decisions keep going against Japan, and its not because the rest of the world is anti Japanese culture etc. Japan should just stop all this research whaling BS leave the IWC and start commercial whaling against international opinion. I doubt they have the nads for that

3 ( +5 / -3 )

Then tell me how else can you collect age distribution data of whales?

Count them. Estimate their ages, if that is what you are interested in. The Japanese government is not interested in that, though.

If there were economic rationale, it would be commercial whaling.

So it's not economic, agreed. And it's certainly not scientific, as we learned again from this panel. So, er, what it is it again?

the parilament approved the budget. Is not it enough proof of public support?

I'll let you have that. Opposition insufficient to have parliament members come to their senses and put the whole sorry scheme out of its misery.

Why should they be irritated?

Because they are being lied to, of course. That tends to irritate people.

2 ( +6 / -5 )

Why would any nation, like Japan, that wants to commercially hunt whales again remain in such an organization? How would it benefit from being a member state? becuase if you shun your nose at the ICJ, IWC or any similar organisation that makes decisions at an international level. it may go against you in future disagreements. If you say stuff you against decisions that go against you, why shouldnt other countries shun there noses at Japan if they win future decisions. thats why its called INTERNATIONAL LAW. if you dont want to follow it then you shouldnt be apart of the international community

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Estimate their ages, if that is what you are interested in.

That's what Japan was doing, as CH3CHO mentioned. (But it's never good enough apparently, by some seemingly arbitrary criteria. I don't know what the criteria is.)

Because they are being lied to, of course. That tends to irritate people.

Cuts both ways.

The IWC purports to be the international "must-join" organization if you want to catch whales. But the IWC does not allow the evil Japanese to catch whales. So are the Japanese irrirated? Hell, it irritates me too, that an international organization is misbehaving like this. For not one year, but for the best part of my whole lifetime. What's the point, besides irritating those who the IWC discriminates against?

-5 ( +2 / -6 )

If you say you are doing research, I suppose you have to think of something to do which looks a little bit like research. Estimating ages would come under that category.

I agree Japan may as well leave the IWC and if it restricted its whaling activities to traditional coastal catches on a small scale, it would find itself much less the object of criticism and ridicule than it is now. It does seem the case that populations of most types of whale are no longer endangered, and traditional whaling activities may be sustainable. The government should cease all forms of financial support, and let the coastal whaling continue, or not, as economic realities dictate. If there is insufficient demand to keep the thing going without subsidies, fine. The problem would disappear naturally in a season or two. Abandoning the ridiculous and indefensible 'research' whaling stance would considerably strengthen Japan in the eyes of the world, with potential benefits elsewhere, e.g. island disputes.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

and if it restricted its whaling activities to traditional coastal catches on a small scale, it would find itself much less the object of criticism and ridicule than it is now.

That hits the issue on the head. Stay away from Antarctica, and the issue will quieten down

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Japan should just leave the IWC. They will never allow any whaling ever, no matter if it's sustainable, or not.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Japan,s stockpile of frozen whale meat is estimated between 5000 to 6000 tons ( Google is your friend. The stockpile has been increasing year after year despite the annual catch getting a smaller due to the Sea Shepherd activities. This obviously indicates the demand is low vse the supply and getting lower. No emotion, just simple facts. This show is all about the millions in government subsidies sprinkled with some misguided national pride.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Why would any nation, like Japan, that wants to commercially hunt whales again remain in such an organization? How would it benefit from being a member state?

My guess is that Japan (or certain politicians) want their cake and eat it to so to speak. They want to keep the whaling in place, yet have it appear that most countries & people in the world approve of it. Similar to the Olympics. Does Japan really want to host the Olympics so they can be more international/less discriminatory to people from around the world?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

theeastisredApr. 14, 2015 - 03:16PM JST

The government should cease all forms of financial support, and let the coastal whaling continue, or not, as economic realities dictate. If there is insufficient demand to keep the thing going without subsidies, fine. The problem would disappear naturally in a season or two.

Actually, that is what the US proposed a couple of years ago, to which Australia strongly objected.

-3 ( +2 / -4 )

Marcelito.

you are aware that the Internet is also the largest collection of out of date & invalidatefinformation out there.

So don't take what you read online at face value.

-3 ( +1 / -3 )

fxgai: "That's ridiculous. You have just said implicitly that there are Japanese people who consume whale meat, and then turned around and said the "whaler's" motivation is "pathetic"."

It's pathetic that they travel to the Antarctic Ocean and claim it's for research, yes, and catch a quota that does not ever even come close to being consumed.

"Frozen meat in freezers does not rot."

It most certainly does. At a slower rate, for sure, but it still rots.

"That's just wacky conspriracy theory stuff until proven otherwise. Off you go then, try to find some proof of it."

Not conspiracy at all. Or do you deny there is a huge amount of meat in freezers from previous catches? If so, why the need to import meat? So they have more to keep in freezers? If you can't admit there is a stockpile in freezers, you are simply in denial.

And yes, the whaler's motivation is pathetic, but not as much so as the Japanese government's arguments in favor of whaling and claims that it's for science. Although there is one thing even more pathetic -- the defense of it simply out of nationalistic fervor; very few Japanese eat whale, but many have the knee-jerk reaction to stand behind whaling simply because the rest of the world (save the land-locked, bribed African nations and Iceland and Norway -- who stick to their own waters) is "attacking their culture" (despite is supposedly being for science).

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

I've been watching this argument for a while now and no....there is no need for lethal research to collect the data that is (allegedly) sought. In fact DNA can be collected from sloughed (shed) skin coming off of the whales as has been done by other researchers. You can also collect whale excrement and analyse this for diet. Blood and tissues samples can be collected via non-lethal darting and would yield mtDNA, DNA (telomeres can be analysed to give an approximation of age) and of course sex. What Japan are trying to do through their amakudari is NOT for scientific research. Frankly Im still pretty furious about the fact that the ICR received some $25,000,000 of tsunami funding given to Japan in good faith for rebuilding efforts etc. NOT to provide an injection of funds into a flawed loss making business venture. Someone in my view should have been charged with fraud for that one.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Japan must think the world is stupid.

One has to understand that it's not that Japan thinks the world is stupid, just gaijin's are.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

DebbidohApr. 14, 2015 - 07:04PM JST

I've been watching this argument for a while now

Oh and how can you assess the whale stock data including the number, age distribution, reproductive ratio without leathal research?

By the way, Japan is happy to discontinue research whaling if IWC completes the assessment of whale stock which was promised in the 1986 moratorium of commercial whaling. The assessment by IWC is 25 years overdue. I am not sure if the moratorium is still valid in this circumstance, though.

10 (e) Notwithstanding the other provisions of paragraph 10, catch limits for the killing for commercial purposes of whales from all stocks for the 1986 coastal and the 1985/86 pelagic seasons and thereafter shall be zero. This provision will be kept under review, based upon the best scientific advice, and by 1990 at the latest the Commission will undertake a comprehensive assessment of the effects of this decision on whale stocks and consider modification of this provision and the establishment of other catch limits.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

Debbidoh

Frankly Im still pretty furious about the fact that the ICR received some $25,000,000 of tsunami funding given to Japan in good faith for rebuilding efforts etc.

For the millionth time, check your damn facts before you spout BS like this. Not a single yen of disaster relief funds donated to Japan domestically or internationally in response to the 2011 Tohoku Disaster was used to support whaling by the ICR. What WAS reallocated to support the security vessels that escort the JARPA II fleet was money that had been initially allocated to the Disaster Relief & Reinvigorate Japan Fund by the Government of Japan. All of it was money within the government's national budget and originated 100% from tax revenue. The GOJ's defense of this reallocation, albeit it a weak one IMO, was that the research whaling did indeed have an economic impact on coastal areas, and to be fair there were other questionable ways in which parts of the relief fund were spent, e.g. promotional cost for the Tokyo Sky Tree, training for JASDF pilots, subsidies for factory not located anywhere near the afflicted areas, etc. You can certainly personally disagree with these decisions, but bottom line it is all tax revenue and the GOJ has the right to do what it sees fit with its budget. It is however fallacious to claim that the Japanese government gave any of the donated disaster relief funds to the ICR to support it's research whaling. Stop repeating this outright lie.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

it,s ME - Yes, indeed. I agree one should not believe everything one finds on the Internet. That's precisely why we should stay away from the ICR published BS. Thanks for the timely reminder :)

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

smithinjapan - Not at all. It's only a few old codgers who profit from government subsidies and don't want to give those up who claim it's only a 'small percentage' of people who are against it. Even the majority of Japanese don't consume whale meat, making even the Japanese whaler's real motivation for killing whales even more pathetic.

There are 7 billion people on planet Earth and the vast majority of them do not care about whales, or whaling. Only a very tiny minority of animal-rights activists incorrectly claim that they speak for "everyone in the world".

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

smithinjapan

a quota that does not ever even come close to being consumed.

Where do you get this from? Is market knowledge about whale meat consumption really so common? It seems like pretty obscure knowledge to possess (or it could be just often repeated and so people believe it?)

It most certainly does. At a slower rate, for sure, but it still rots.

OK. I'll grant you that, but then it's true for any type of frozen food. So then, how much is in the freezers? According to marcelito:

Japan,s stockpile of frozen whale meat is estimated between 5000 to 6000 tons ( Google is your friend. The stockpile has been increasing year after year

So I asked my friend Google. I see that as of the end of February 2015, there was 1,702 tons in storage. Not 11,702 tons, as you would expect if the stockpile has been increasing year after year, but 1,702 tons. It's row #35 on the first tab of this document for those who can read Japanese. http://www.market.jafic.or.jp/suisan/file/reizo/2015/09_syuyou_2015_02.htm

Not conspiracy at all. Or do you deny there is a huge amount of meat in freezers from previous catches?

I do deny it, based on the figures I have just produced for you. These are up to date figures. If marcelito's figures were out of date as was suggested, it would seem the opposite of what was claimed has been happening.

If so, why the need to import meat?

Because there is enough demand to lead to additional meat being imported. That would be the most rational, sensible explanation I can come up with (I don't deny conspiracy theories might be true, but I'd not put money on it). I'm not going to presume that market forces in Japan are different for food products that happen to be made out of whale.

If you can't admit there is a stockpile in freezers, you are simply in denial.

Well as I said before, there is a stockpile, and that's because it's in demand. No demand, no need to store it. Demand, need to store some. This is just normal market behaviour. Why would any storage operator store something that they could not sell? Riddle me that.

there is one thing even more pathetic -- the defense of it simply out of nationalistic fervor;

Well I'm not much of a nationalist myself, and I have no problem with it. I think it's those who are fervently against it that might need to pull their heads in.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Oh and how can you assess the whale stock data including the number, age distribution, reproductive ratio without leathal research?

How about reading the previous comment?

0 ( +2 / -2 )

If all those non-lethal methods can provide data, where is the data? Japan wouldn't need to go an use lethal methods to estimate whale ages if there was already perfectly good data available on this.

So is some organization consistently collecting this data, which Japan has access to use? And if so, is it up to snuff, according to the scientific panel that just rejected Japan's latest plan?

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Japan wouldn't need to go an use lethal methods to estimate whale ages if there was already perfectly good data available on this.

As we all know, Japan wants to collect that "data" to see if it's viable to resume commercial whaling. We know it isn't as there simply isn't a big enough market in Japan. Most people don't eat whale. Ergo, their "research" program is as sham to appease the wounded pride of some stubborn oyajis who like to thumb their nose at western sentiment.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

We know it isn't as there simply isn't a big enough market in Japan.

Not "we know", but "some claim".

And that is circular argumentation, too. There is no commercial whaling, so most people don't eat it... Therefore there should not be any commercial whaling.... Huh?

And as a westerner, I do not like to be told what my western sentiment is. Sure, most western governments do share that sentiment, but then I think they are just pandering to a small minority who get their knickers in a twist about this. Apparently Japan's government is so naughty for pandering to it's own minority groups, but I can't say I feel that the western governments are any better at all.

Especially as this IWC organization wastes tax payer money, not doing what it was set up for.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

There is no commercial whaling

There is no commercial whaling because many whale species are endangered. The Japanese government is in no position to resume commercial whaling mainly because of the low demand among Japanese people for whale meat. Thus they have this "science research" concoction to keep the antiquated tradition going

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Login to leave a comment

Facebook users

Use your Facebook account to login or register with JapanToday. By doing so, you will also receive an email inviting you to receive our news alerts.

Facebook Connect

Login with your JapanToday account

User registration

Articles, Offers & Useful Resources

A mix of what's trending on our other sites