Meiji Holdings says drug unit has started late-stage trial for COVID vaccine

Vaccines clearly don't work, eh?

mRNA

Not interested.

I may not hold the same animosity towards them as I do towards Pfizer (due to their empire of media censorship and information control), but honestly, I'm sticking with Shionogi or Novavax.

How about side effects that occur after that?

What, you mean people not dying of Corona? No need for zero covid policies? Life being relatively normal? Things like that?

I'm sticking with whatever my doctor advises.

You had yourself vaccinated with Novavax' Nuvaxovid after it was approved in April? Why don't I believe you?

No, it's not easily available in Japan. This is the result of the pro-mRNA echo chamber - people assume that they already have all the relevant information and assume when someone doesn't take an identical position to theirs, they are an anti-vaxxer/conspiracy theorist.

I already contacted my usual English-speaking International Health Clinic in Tokyo two months ago. They aren't getting Novavax doses because everybody already rushed to get their mRNA shots back in 2021 and there is no demand. That is the result of bad consumerism.

I don't really feel like calling several ward/city/prefectural offices to find out if they have Nova in supply. After all, for me, Covid-19 is merely an inconvenience to my body (and I caught the original strain all the way back in 2020).

Most likely, Shionogi will get approved and become available in a few weeks, I'll do that three times, not get myocarditis or have bad side effects, and then have PCR free travel the remainder of my life in Japan.

Most likely, Shionogi will get approved and become available in a few weeks, I'll do that three times, not get myocarditis or have bad side effects, and then have PCR free travel the remainder of my life in Japan.

Wow you also know the effects of not yet approved vaccines? Truly amazing

Most likely, Shionogi will get approved and become available in a few weeks, I'll do that three times, not get myocarditis or have bad side effects, and then have PCR free travel the remainder of my life in Japan.

If you hear others say that , wouldn't you think they are raving mad?

with the test period running from November to April 2024

I believe the date is wrong, or is that a one and an half year test from nov 2022 ?

Please update

Bourla suggested that we would all require a yearly ‘vaccination’ against Covid.

What a money maker!

For a disease like a one day flu (for me) I see no need to keep on taking injections for the rest of my life.

I might buy Pfizer shares though…

I believe the date is wrong, or is that a one and an half year test from nov 2022 ?

How long do you think is enough?

Test can be shortened considerably if test subjects are exposed deliberately to the virus but it's probably not allowed

That's just 6 months.

How about side effects that occur after that?

How about after 6 years, or after 60?

The vague possibility of something happening in the future is not an logical argument, present evidence of what problems may occur and what evidence is there that the possibility exist (problems do not just magically begin from zero after an arbitrary time).

If you don't have this evidence then reducing the well known risk from covid that can even be permanent is the only logical choice.

No, it's not easily available in Japan. This is the result of the pro-mRNA echo chamber - people assume that they already have all the relevant information and assume when someone doesn't take an identical position to theirs, they are an anti-vaxxer/conspiracy theorist.

That is not usually the case, when people repeat false and misleading antivaxxer propaganda is when people think they are also the same, pretending every institution of medicine or related fields of science in the world is in a conspiracy to hide supposedly toxic effects of vaccines is one of the obvious things that can lead to this.

 They aren't getting Novavax doses because everybody already rushed to get their mRNA shots back in 2021 and there is no demand. That is the result of bad consumerism.

No, that is the results of being rational and responsible and avoiding having an increased risk from covid for over a year for no good reason. Novavax came late, people were justified to seek an effective and safe measure to reduce their risk, that is good care of your own health.

 I'll do that three times, not get myocarditis or have bad side effects

By refusing a vaccine until now you exposed yourself to much higher risk of myocarditis from the infection than any vaccine could ever produce.

For a disease like a one day flu (for me) I see no need to keep on taking injections for the rest of my life.

Nobody knows if this will happen, but even if so, everybody that dies while choosing to remain unvaccinated from covid would have the same mindset, which is not very reassuring.

Great, a confectionery company joining the mRNA circus.

Why don't we get it? Almost three years down the road: we now know Covid vaccines don't work as promised - they don't stop acquisition, transmission, and lose efficacy after eight weeks, meaning by the time you get your boosters, they're already out of date.

We now know that lockdowns don't work - Sweden has the lowest excess mortality rate of the pandemic, despite (or due to) refusing to lock down.

And based on the almost 200,000 daily cases here, we now know that masks don't really work either.

Why are we repeating the same mistakes over and over and over, expecting different results - the very definition of insanity?

Why don't we get it? Almost three years down the road: we now know Covid vaccines don't work as promised 

Who promised vaccines would guarantee permanent efficacy and stopping completely infection and transmission even against any possible variant that could appear?

It is very easy to claim things are not as promised if you make up imaginary promises nobody ever made. Also your understandi of the effect and purpose of boosters is not correct.

We now know that lockdowns don't work - Sweden has the lowest excess mortality rate of the pandemic, despite (or due to) refusing to lock down.

That is an irrational argument, like saying that antibiotics don't work because you know of one patient that had some infection in the throat and survived without using them. Is Japan proof that masks don't work? because it controlled successfully the number of cases for a long time without any mask mandate, right?

And based on the almost 200,000 daily cases here, we now know that masks don't really work either.

Still an irrational argument, how do you know the percentage of the cases that come from improper use of masks? how do you know that without mask use we would not have 3, 5 or 10 times more cases?

The only mistake is thinking incomplete information and invalid logic makes you know more than the experts that fully support the value of the measures used against covid.

Vaccines clearly don't work, eh?

Not sure, I personally wouldn’t take it.

pretending every institution of medicine or related fields of science in the world is in a conspiracy to hide supposedly toxic effects of vaccines is one of the obvious things that can lead to this.

I never said they were part of a conspiracy. The "scientific community" you always resort to pointing to is not neutral and unbiased, nor is it a single consensus. A large part of said community is people that profit off of drugs. They too, are technically "scientists". I'd have less trouble buying into the stuff you say if you just said, "people in the pharmaceutical industry have conducted studies that say x".

By refusing a vaccine until now you exposed yourself to much higher risk of myocarditis from the infection than any vaccine could ever produce.

You have no stats or evidence to prove this.

in all fairness @wolfshine, neither do you.

Not sure, I personally wouldn’t take it.

actually multiple medical studies in multiple countries have shown that the vaccines reduce your chances considerably of hospitalisation, long covid and death

you know what has been medically proven to have no effect in stopping the effects of covid, ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine

also of note natural immunity from catching covid is only effective between 8-12 months, then the immunity wanes considerably., it isnt permanent. very similar to influenza.

It also no coincidence that the flu shot is also a yearly shot

Really?

Yes, really, a report that has already been severely criticized for making nvalid comparisons (one hospitalization as less risky than 3 vaccine side effects, even when the hospitalization comes with a dozens of serious health problems and the 3 side effects are mild and related like stomach pain, diarrhea and inapetence) that fails to account to the cumulative protection of vaccines over time, that considers everything happening after vaccines as caused by them, ignoring the normal prevalence in unvaccinated populations, etc. etc. is not a real argument for anything, except maybe that this is the very low degree of evidence that people need to descend to have anything to say about vaccines.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9344593/

Among others, these include drawing conclusions that are not supported by the hypotheses they adduce, mischaracterising potential unintended consequences, and raising concerns related to key ethical concepts without fully articulating the rationale or justification for those concerns.

I never said they were part of a conspiracy.

Then you would have to recognize they are much more likely to be correct in their support for the measures since obviously they have a much more demonstrable professional capacity to evaluate the evidence.

 The "scientific community" you always resort to pointing to is not neutral and unbiased, nor is it a single consensus. 

In this aspect yes there is, as surely as you repeatedly failed to provide references to any institution that echo your cliams, meaning there is a consensus against it, just you are not able to accept it.

A large part of said community is people that profit off of drugs. 

Every single institution of every country in the world? because those are the ones that contradict you, unless you have evidence for this that means you are arguing a global conspiracy that includes everybody.

You have no stats or evidence to prove this.

This is a well know fact.

https://covid19.nih.gov/news-and-stories/covid-19-vaccines-myocarditis

Myocarditis is a rare complication of COVID-19 vaccination. It affects fewer than 20 people per 1,000,000 COVID-19 vaccinations.

We don’t know exactly how often this happens, but one study estimated that myocarditis affects about 40 people out of every 1,000,000 people who test positive for COVID-19.3 However, myocarditis is much more common in patients hospitalized for COVID-19 (226 per 100,000).

Just because you ignore the evidence it does not mean everybody else is in the same situation.

Or as the CDC explicitly says:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/myocarditis.html

 CDC continues to recommend that everyone ages 6 months and older get vaccinated for COVID-19. The known risks of COVID-19 illness and its related, possibly severe complications, such as long-term health problems, hospitalization, and even death, far outweigh the potential risks of having a rare adverse reaction to vaccination, including the possible risk of myocarditis or pericarditis.

even with natural immunity from having caught covid, youre 2 times more likely to get reinfected compared to people who have been vaccinated, here are the medical peer reviewed facts

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/covid-natural-immunity-what-you-need-to-know

Great, I wonder if this one will actually work, i.e. prevent transmission and infection as a genuine vaccine should.

“Late stage” is a higher poker card than “long term clinical trials”?

Great, I wonder if this one will actually work, i.e. prevent transmission and infection as a genuine vaccine should.

So according to you almost none of the vaccines developed in the history of humanity are "genuine"? That arbitrary and imaginary standard is not what vaccines are intended to do as their primary objective. There is a reason why vaccines are against diseases, not against infection by the etiologic pathogens.

Yes, really, a report that has already been severely criticized for making nvalid comparisons (one hospitalization as less risky than 3 vaccine side effects, even when the hospitalization comes with a dozens of serious health problems and the 3 side effects are mild and related like stomach pain, diarrhea and inapetence) that fails to account to the cumulative protection of vaccines over time, that considers everything happening after vaccines as caused by them, ignoring the normal prevalence in unvaccinated populations, etc. etc. is not a real argument for anything, except maybe that this is the very low degree of evidence that people need to descend to have anything to say about vaccines.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9344593/

Yes, the peer-reviewed study was criticized by one assistant professor, who was linked to the WHO and was member of the Ontario COVID-19 Vaccine Distribution Task Force. And because of his comments, we are expected to ignore the conclusions of a peer-reviewed study that has not been retracted and which supports a number of other peer-reviewed scientific studies.

Great, I wonder if this one will actually work, i.e. prevent transmission and infection as a genuine vaccine should.

This one will probably only lessen the chances of developing serious symptoms and dying like most vaccines.

Anyway , for those who think masks don't work (well) against covid virus, how about influenza?

Do you think influenza outbreaks can be mitigated by wearing masks or conversely get worse if many people are not wearing masks?

Don't recall influenza last years were as bad as this year, could many people not wearing masks have contributed significantly?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9025013/

Our data suggest that there is no increase in the incidence of myocarditis and pericarditis in COVID-19 recovered patients compared to uninfected matched controls.

So this:

By refusing a vaccine until now you exposed yourself to much higher risk of myocarditis from the infection than any vaccine could ever produce.

is wrong.

Raw beer, it doesn't matter who is the one that writes an argument, how do you defend the article from the reasons used to say it is wrong?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9025013/

Our data suggest that there is no increase in the incidence of myocarditis and pericarditis in COVID-19 recovered patients compared to uninfected matched controls.

So this:

By refusing a vaccine until now you exposed yourself to much higher risk of myocarditis from the infection than any vaccine could ever produce.

is wrong.

Your study is about recovered patients. Incidence of myocarditis is much higher during period of illness for the unvaccinated

Very succinct @ian. There lies the problem with these 'peer reviewed studies'. I suggest @RawBeer also studies the word 'peer' properly.

We don’t know exactly how often this happens, but one study estimated that myocarditis affects about 40 people out of every 1,000,000 people who test positive for COVID-19.

I think it's worth pointing out, 1 out of every 25000 Covid-19 infected getting myocarditis is really not that staggering of a figure. I mean, it's not really that far off from 1 out of every 50000 people getting myocarditis after vaccination.

One thing's for sure, three infections, no vaccinations, and I am still among the 99.99975%.

Meanwhile China has renewed its vaccination program.

Maybe Meiji Holdings has its eye elsewhere.,.

One thing's for sure, three infections, no vaccinations, and I am still among the 99.99975%.

3 infections?

You should have had a strong natural immunity after the first infection right?

And surely not wearing of masks did not contribute because they don't work

How did you manage to get infected 3 times already?

If there's a new variant coming hopefully it's not more virulent, you seem especially vulnerable to infection .

Good thing you're not concerned at all that you might develop unknown serious illness in the future due to the infections