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Japan unveils 3,000-ton new submarine

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Great! People don't have jobs, and anything to eat but awesome we have submarine.

-7 ( +28 / -35 )

She looks hungry. Soon she will protect Japan from China. We need more subs like. Well done Mitsubishi Heavy Industries Ltd

-1 ( +26 / -27 )

She looks hungry. Soon she will protect Japan from China. We need more subs like her. Well done Mitsubishi Heavy Industries Ltd

-24 ( +7 / -31 )

Big Whale?  Gotta love the irony.

16 ( +19 / -3 )

A little sailor humor with that flag at the tip?

8 ( +12 / -4 )

It looks a bit phallic

13 ( +19 / -6 )

@Nihonview

Maybe in your country, but in Japan, everyone who wants a job has a job.

Tell that to all the people that are at Hello Work every month looking for a job. While Japan's unemployment is not as high as many countries, its a far cry from saying anyone who wants a job can get a job. Also, some jobs right now pay you enough to cover your monthly health insurance bills from the government. The economic situation isn't good anywhere right now. Also, Japan is a country reliant on trade. When foreign countries buy less, that means you export less. That means less ability for companies to maintain their workforce. Japan's airline, auto, tourism industries have been hit hard.

28 ( +32 / -4 )

The Taigei class is the successor to the Soryu class.

Hopefully this will serve as a deterrent to Chinese navy.

9 ( +17 / -8 )

The 70-crew member submarine has a stealth-like design and is equipped with lithium-ion batteries so that it can remain underwater longer than previous models, it also said.

Stealth capability is outstanding, made out of a cutting-edge tech. With that Japan's submarine gains advantage over nuclear types. It also fits well to the country's overall security strategy, with self-defense as the primary goal (in contrast to nuclear-subs, aiming to go far away from home and stay near-indefinitely under deep water).

10 ( +16 / -6 )

It looks like a warmongering manhood

1 ( +9 / -8 )

Good jobs come with building such hardware and maintaining it. It will serve well to protect Japanese sovereignty.

10 ( +18 / -8 )

@ Nihon view

....here are the stats.

None are so brainwashed than those who've been made to think they are free.

I won't take J-gov's word even in my dreams.

As for the symbolical phallus ?keep making 'em bigger because Japan will need to piss further than the competition, everytime.

-1 ( +7 / -8 )

The 70-crew member submarine has a stealth-like design and is equipped with lithium-ion batteries so that it can remain underwater lon

Still not as good as the nuvlea

0 ( +3 / -3 )

The 70-crew member submarine has a stealth-like design and is equipped with lithium-ion batteries so that it can remain underwater longer than previous models, it also said.

Still not as good as nuclear submarine which can remain underwater for months. It only needs to resurface to restock food or other consumables.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

Time to do some of the "scientific and data gathering" for research purposes that China is always talking about, first plenty of ships out there to test.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

$720 million to build, that is cost cutter cheap.

The hypothetical project in real time cost can amount to between $1/ $3.5 billion. Remember the cost of acquisition.

Then break down the extended remuneration, the costs of day to day operation maintenance?

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Japan has the capability to do such a thing. Instead of utilizing nuclear propulsion, they opted for the technology they developed such as lithium batteries.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

Still not as good as nuclear submarine which can remain underwater for months. It only needs to resurface to restock food or other consumables.

Indeed the nuclear subs have much longer underwater capacity but on the flip side they are much louder than conventional subs when underwater. It is a trade off in a number of areas.

The US is one of the few nations with sub fleets, to no longer run conventional submarines and this puts it at a disadvantage. Conventional subs being cheaper to make and to maintain means they pay more money for less subs to get speed and undersea duration advantage. They loose out on numbers of subs that can have identical offensive and defensive systems and the greater stealth of conventional subs. Both China and Russia maintain fleets of both. The US could have many more attack submarines if they cancelled 10 future Nuclear subs for 20 conventional ones. Maintaining both types is the way to go.

Japans newest class looks like a fine addition to the fleet.

4 ( +8 / -4 )

Review the costs of the....well take a look

Treaty of mutual cooperation and security between japan and the united states of America.

https://www.mofa.go.jp/region/n-america/us/q&a/ref/1.html

The diction/tone between US administrations is open to interpretation

0 ( +1 / -1 )

go go Japan !! Japan is the real sleeping dragon, once it wake up, the whole world will look at it with salute. Japan SDF will protect its water and land from the intrusion of commies! thanks Japan !!

-4 ( +12 / -16 )

Indeed the nuclear subs have much longer underwater capacity but on the flip side they are much louder than conventional subs when underwater. It is a trade off in a number of areas.

Exactly, and as I've also noted above. For Japan with its primary focus on self-defense, diesel-driven conventional types are suitable as they mainly operate near seas and around territorial areas, not aiming to go far away to first assault the target.

11 ( +11 / -0 )

I bet half the workers who built it were "haken" or "ukeoi" staff and have now been let go. Bravo!

-2 ( +7 / -9 )

Welcome Taigei!!

Now that it one weapon that will send the Commies swimming back home in tears!

Japan is the real sleeping dragon

Trust me, the Japanese Military has never slept. Best in the region, and getting bigger and better.

-3 ( +9 / -12 )

I support Japans efforts to protect it's borders, especially with the growing threats fron CHINA and North KOREA.

Japan cannot fully rely on the USA, especially when you have presidents like Trump.

Japan should wake up and be the equalizing power in the Far East, China needs to be tamed it has become the worlds no.1 enemy and unpredictable.

-5 ( +9 / -14 )

She looks hungry. Soon she will protect Japan from China. We need more subs like. Well done Mitsubishi Heavy Industries Ltd

> Oh to see our war mongering alpha males cheer this crap on! Question, how many MORE of these whales do you need to feel safe, to teach CHINA, those nasty people, a good lesson in Japanese dominance? 300? Is that enough? No? How about 3,000 more? Yeah, not enough, 30,000! Thing is as Japanese builds one, China builds TWO or more. They have more capital, more resources and a LOT more people. So we end up in another pointless arms race which just impoverishes us all, and then like the USSR, its game over. But these alpha males here will never recognize this. Cognitively challenged they are!

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Trust me, the Japanese Military has never slept. Best in the region, and getting bigger and better

Hate to throw a bucket of reality over your little fantasy but China would crush Japan in about a week if war broke out.

0 ( +9 / -9 )

I'm sure China and Korea will love the Imperial-style decoration.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

Wait what is this for again ? This investment doesn't make much sense to me . I think by now it is fair to assume China has pilotless fully automated solutions for this kind of warfare. Crew problems aside , also , 22 is just not enough

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Why does Japan need to keep it's military in top shape?

"Chinese President Xi Jinping has called on troops to "put all (their) minds and energy on preparing for war" in a visit to a military base in the southern province of Guangdong on Tuesday, according to state news agency Xinhua."

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/10/14/asia/xi-jinping-taiwan-us-esper-intl-hnk/index.html

Giant HaystacksToday  07:27 pm JST

Trust me, the Japanese Military has never slept. Best in the region, and getting bigger and better

Hate to throw a bucket of reality over your little fantasy but China would crush Japan in about a week if war broke out.

Hate to bust your fantasy but the JSDF can hold their own in any conventional warfare engagement with the Chinese PLA. The only advantage China has in terms of ballistic missiles and nuclear weapons is erased by the overwhelming superiority of the United States, And any attack on Japan by China will start a war with the United States in accordance with Article 5 of the US-JPN Mutual Defense Treaty.

4 ( +9 / -5 )

It’s of course not for war, but for globally selling those ships and the technology inside. Japan is one of the most renowned and leading inventors and quality producers of such ships and submarines.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

They have more capital, more resources and a LOT more people. So we end up in another pointless arms race which just impoverishes us all, and then like the USSR, its game over

oh, then what you mean is because they "LOOK" stronger, so Japan have to keep back down and keep silent?? what a joke. Mind you, the peaceful life you enjoy now doesnt fall FREE from the sky, it all comes with a price. People always think that they are "supposed" to have a peaceful life, but they never know all of it is because of the hard work and efforts of JSDF.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

The one unequivocal good thing about this, is that this makes Japan less dependent on the US for military purposes. While this certainly won’t end it’s dependency, it’s another step in the right direction for breaking the dependency. Because as we’ve seen in the past few years alone, we can’t rely upon the US forever. I live in the US, so believe me, I know.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

"They have more capital"

No they do not. Yer a bit "confused"

China's GDP is larger and their foreign reserves are slightly larger than Japan's.

However, they do not have bigger more available capital than Japan.

"Japan is poised to emerge as a winner from what the IMF calls the Great Lockdown recession. Companies are more cashed-up than ever; the government is pragmatic and unified and has a two-thirds supermajority in parliament; and if you ever thought a declining workforce was a negative, think again. "

"https://www.ft.com/content/7fdae7b1-9bc4-43d1-8e9f-72ae82cfc927"

China is third biggest recipient of capital investment. That is inflow capital. Other countries invest in China; Japan in one of the biggest investors in China.

"https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2015/07/which-countries-have-the-most-venture-capital-investments/"

Japan leads the World in outflow capital, i.e. they invest on other countries.

"https://www.statista.com/statistics/273931/largest-direct-investors-worldwide/"

That is why they are the World's largest creditor Nation, for more than 20 years in a row.

So, no.

China does not have more capital than Japan.

Not even the US of A has it.

In addition, Japan spends a mere 1% of GDP on defence; therefore, they can afford to build a few more submarines, if they really want to.

Perhaps buy a few Tomahawk's?

7 ( +10 / -3 )

Why persist in building a submarine with out of date equipment? A lithium battery is still a battery.

-9 ( +0 / -9 )

Why persist in building a submarine with out of date equipment? A lithium battery is still a battery.

ALL non-nuclear submarines run on battery power and electric motors when submerged. That's the way they work. Lithium-Ion means they can run submerged for longer periods.

No need for close-range defensive attack subs to be nuclear-powered. These are not strategic ballistic missile launch platforms that need to stay submerged for months, travelling thousand of miles.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

Congratuations!

And nice choice of flag!

0 ( +5 / -5 )

Go Japan !!.. It's necessary, China is a big menace in the region..

Why so many crbb whining here??..

4 ( +9 / -5 )

The Japanese bid to Australia lost out on some minor details.

I am guessing that this new sub has improved and incorporated all the desirable features of the German and French offerings.

Just a hunch

1 ( +2 / -1 )

GOD, what century are we in ???. A submarine is no more needed.

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

Sub aside, rising sun flag? Come on! Give me a break.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

That is Impressive.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

I'm all for expensive toys to protect from China, regardless of the country of origin, but you probably should have slapped some bondo and fresh paint on those dents under the nose before showing it to the world....

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

"Hate to throw a bucket of reality over your little fantasy but China would crush Japan in about a week if war broke out."

Only if China used nuclear weapons; other than that...

"In the undersea domain, Japan’s submarine force is deeply respected throughout Asia, and even America’s anti-submarine warfare operators can struggle to track Japan’s modern fleet of super-quiet non-nuclear submarines."

"https://www.forbes.com/sites/craighooper/2020/07/19/with-30-submarines-japan-will-shape-the-pacifics-undersea-defenses/#589b4f0d3832"

Japan was tasked (by the great US of A of all people) to monitor the USSR's undersea activities; they has sole responsibility on keeping the mighty Soviet carriers and subs in check.

Japan is detecting noisy Chinese subs at will. They did it not as long as last Thursday.

Adding geography to the equation, they would have China for breakfast if a naval fisty cuff broke out.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

I am guessing that this new sub has improved and incorporated all the desirable features of the German and French offerings.

Take it from someone who has operated with the JMSDF, the Germans and French only wish they could build a submarine as good as those of the JMSDF. Underwater performance is directly related to shaft horse power and the Japanese boats have consistently been the most powerful diesel electric boats made. Driving an electric motor off batteries limits the power available to drive a vehicle. Japan does a better job of this than any other nation and their subs have long been the most powerful non-nuclear subs made. They also have much greater range and diving depth than European boats while being as quiet or quieter than the best from Europe. The European subs are designed to operate close to home in the relatively shallow Med, North Sea and Baltic, not operating across the vast distances and great depths of the Pacific.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Perfect for SEAL deployment near Chinese boats in Japanese waters when they refuse to leave. Let those boats stay. Forever.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Adding geography to the equation, they would have China for breakfast if a naval fisty cuff broke out.

Ten years ago I would have agreed with you. But not today. Japanese ships and personnel are individually better than anything in the PLAN, and I have seen both navies up close and personal. However, numbers matter and in the past ten years the Chinese have been building large numbers of high quality warships with long range offensive and defensive weapons. Ships like the Type 52D, Type 55 and the Type 54A frigates are about as good as any combat ships made today. Chinese ships are much more advanced than anything the Soviets or Russians ever made, especially their radars. Most importantly they now have big deck aircraft carriers with modern high performance fighters aboard and are building a nuclear powered CATOBAR aircraft carrier in Shanghia. Without their own organic air power Japanese ships are either limited to operating no further from land than the reach of land based air cover or they will have to be very careful to avoid a fight with a Chinese carrier strike group. I don't think the Japanese operating alone can be counted on to prevail in a solo fight with the Chinese navy. I hate saying that btw but believe it to be true. Japan needs more Aegis equipped destroyers, real no-kidding aircraft carriers and logistics ships.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

I'm all for expensive toys to protect from China, regardless of the country of origin, but you probably should have slapped some bondo and fresh paint on those dents under the nose before showing it to the world....

That big rising sun flag on the bow is there to hide the shape of the bow from public view. What lies under that flag and the general shape of the bow is undoubtedly classified.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Why persist in building a submarine with out of date equipment? A lithium battery is still a battery.

Two reasons. Number one is cost. A Virginia class boat costs upwards of $3 billion each. Number two, Japan does not possess the highly enriched bomb grade uranium used in submarine reactors. If you notice only nations that openly possess nuclear weapons have nuclear subs. Possession of uranium of sufficient enrichment to use in a submarine reactor would be a violation of the NNP.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

Nothing, NOTHING will deter the US from dominating the world. That fact is beautiful and horrific. My wife has taught me that those two terms go together quite naturally.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

What a joke. Use the money to test Japanese viruses, instead of threatening neighbors with bad toys. The time to use forces in east Asia has long gone. Since the end of the war, no single nations in east Asia has been conquered by colonial forces.

-8 ( +0 / -8 )

What a joke. Use the money to test Japanese viruses, instead of threatening neighbors with bad toys. The time to use forces in east Asia has long gone. Since the end of the war, no single nations in east Asia has been conquered by colonial forces.

Try telling that to the Philippinos who's islands were taken from them by the Chinese. Why? Because China wanted them and the Philippines doesn't have adequate means to defend them. If Japan looks relatively weak the Chinese will take Japanese territory too.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

I like this picture quite a bit. It's provocative and it's thumbing its nose at China. Gambare Nippon!

4 ( +4 / -0 )

China has hardly taken anything from anyone.

To call bits of rocks sticking just over the sea ‘islands’ is an overstatement.

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

Glad to see it. Plus, you know the thing will be run efficiently. I imagine the efficiency of the Japanese transit systems, but with a sneaky ninja sub.

Wish the crew well.

Question for the Navy types: Is it a boat or ship?

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Sub aside, rising sun flag? Come on! Give me a break.

Okay, I'll give you a break along with some knowledge. It's not the Japanese Imperial rising sun flag from the war.

It's the JNSDF naval ensign and has been in use since 1954. It's used by Asahi Brewery, The Asahi Shimbun, anime, manga and almost all festivals.

There, now you learned something today.

No country objected to the adoption of the new ensign or to Japanese naval vessels flying it until a Korean soccer player was emotionally triggered by seeing it in the stands in 2011 and the national Korean mass freakout started after that.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Whilst having more naval assets is certainly an advantage, what Japan needs more is a weapon that can act as a deterrence to intimidate any potential enemies (Korea & China?). So Suga-san will have to do more in convincing Japanese MPs to vote in favour of the Article 9 ammendment.

Looking forward to the day when Japan had finally got their hand on weapons that can obliterate entire cities!

1 ( +2 / -1 )

The time to use forces in east Asia has long gone. Since the end of the war, no single nations in east Asia has been conquered by colonial forces.

For you Chinese with your 5000 year history, you know that it's only a blip in time since the end of the war.

Above is the line the CCP would have people believe. The more that people believe it, the more the CCP can turn the heat up on the frogs.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

To call bits of rocks sticking just over the sea ‘islands’ is an overstatement.

As long as there is anything above the water at the lowest tide it is an island, and an island has an EEZ surrounding it that extends 200 nautical miles ( 1 1/6 statute miles) in all directions from the island's shore. Within that EEZ China can claim exclusive rights to fish and exploit any mineral deposits (oil and gas) or other sea life such as kelp and seaweed that grows there. That EEZ is the reason China is so aggressive taking other nation's "rocks". They are taking resources from their neighbors.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

Question for the Navy types: Is it a boat or ship?

Submarines are always called boats, even though many now exceed the lenght and tonnage of many WWII heavy cruisers.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Nothing, NOTHING will deter the US from dominating the world. That fact is beautiful and horrific. My wife has taught me that those two terms go together quite naturally.

The US is afraid of a repeat of 7 December 1941. That was a hard lesson the US has not forgotten. The US never wants to be caught off guard like that ever again and is determined to shape events in ways that favor the US and contain its potential enemies. Deterrence, even an aggressive forward deployed deterrence such as the US practices, is always less costly than war.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

I should have said a nautical mile equals 1 1/6 statute miles. Apologies. 200 nm is 230 statute miles.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Thomas Robert MountcastleOct. 14  10:11 pm JST

Why persist in building a submarine with out of date equipment? A lithium battery is still a battery.

This is absolute state of the art tech.

In answer to to a few comments above.

1) Nuclear has its place in regional projection, where range and endurance are critical. The trade off is that nuclear will be larger, and because of it's propulsion system, needs to constantly run cooling pumps. This introduces extra noise into the equation.

2) Japan is interested in local defence, in shallower waters, so a smaller quieter vessel, with Air Independent Propulsion (AIP) and extended LiON storage capacity has greater benefits. The costs are also lower, so you can afford more vessels for the same price.

3) New diesel/electric vessels have made huge advancements in the last three decades, making them highly capable, incredibly stealthy vessels. Stealth is the name of the game. No one should know you are there, or ever have been until things go bump in the night. Submarine launched underwater drones are now making an appearance for intelligence gathering operations.

4) New diesel/electric subs have been shown time and time again to be stealthy enough to defeat modern ASW technology. The Swedish Gotland-class vessels managed to do this by theoretically 'sinking' the USS Ronald Regan in exercises in the Pacific. It impressed the US so much that they leased the vessel and a crew from Sweden for a year in 2004 to practice against. The Gotland-class had now been superseded by the new Blekinge-class.

https://www.militaryaerospace.com/power/article/14183065/submarine-stealthy-superquiet

2 ( +2 / -0 )

What a joke. Use the money to test Japanese viruses, instead of threatening neighbors with bad toys. The time to use forces in east Asia has long gone. Since the end of the war, no single nations in east Asia has been conquered by colonial forces.

You should send that message to China who spend many billions of dollars more than Japan, building more ships faster than any other country, to threaten its neighbors and become a regional colonial power. China is the joke, and a bad one at that. Japan is doing its bit to counter balance Chinese aggression. China building so much war equipment when it has no threats against it. What a joke.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Nothing special of a 3000ton SSK submarine! The Soviet Union built and exports the "Kilo" class submarine has exceeded 3000 tons displacement in 1982! The Kilo class has been exported to many countries including China has 12 of them!

Anyway diesel electric submarine is nowhere to compare with a nuclear attack submarine or a ballistic missiles capable submarine! China has more than 10 nuclear submarines already!

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Living in Japan, and aware of the rising international tensions of (mostly) growing populations and aspirations, but stuck withing limited, diminishing natural resources ... I have very mixed feelings about the current arms race. Looking at this work of all-too-clever ingenuity, we would do well to remember the eventual end-game of 'too big to fail'. It won't be pretty.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

(sigh) ... 'within'.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

As something of a history buff, I have been very impressed with Japan's history of building very effective submarines and torpedoes. Their use in World War II was dictated by leadership to be directed primarily against the US Navy, and thus other uses were minimized. Germany, on the other hand, used their submarine force primarily against merchant shipping. The submarine variant of the Long Lance torpedo, the type 95, was arguably the best in the world at the beginning of the war.

As for diesel-electric vs. nuclear, "AIP technology has improved significantly the stealth performance of a new generation of submarines at a fraction of the cost of a nuclear-powered boat."

https://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/2018/june/theres-case-diesels

It depends on what one wants and needs from one's subs. At about $3 billion each, America's subs are not cheap. Furthermore, the US can only build one or two per year, with the current Los Angeles class of attack submarines approaching the end of their useful life. China, on the other hand, is building a large submarine factory that will be able to build 4 submarines per year.

The US military has forecast for decades that China would surpass the US in military might sometime between 2030 and 2050. That might have tremendous impact for a country like Taiwan, if they are threatened with invasion, but the ability of the US to defend itself and its allies will not disappear just because China becomes stronger than the US.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Glad to hear my hard earned money is going to military funding! I wonder what tax they are gonna raise next year.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

China has hardly taken anything from anyone.

Over 1M Uighurs would disagree. Tibet, Taiwanese.

Freedom of speech from ethnic Chinese around the world who have family or may want to visit family in China.

Hardly anything. 2K - 10K in Tienanmen Square killed.

How many viruses seem to begin in China that spread, killing as they go?

Lack of privacy. While in China, try to post something not nice about the CCP-government. Even if it is 100% true, those posts are removed. Remember all the truth that came out immediately when the tainted baby milk scandal hit? Chinese people that truth from the Chinese govt is never just the truth.

That's just the people stuff. The corporate espionage from Chinese agents world-wide is astounding. I'm not including CCP-Chinese govt efforts to gain military or political information, I expect that from every nation of the world. Just the corporate espionage list where Chinese companies have been caught is astounding.

Hardly anything?

Did you get your pay for today, 五毛 ?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

It looks like a big boobie

0 ( +0 / -0 )

FarmboyOct. 14  05:03 pm JST

A little sailor humor with that flag at the tip?

In the US and other nations' navies there is a tradition now where before debarking on a mission the crew stands on topside and sings 'Yellow Submarine'. Will the crew of this vessel do the same?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

It depends on what one wants and needs from one's subs. At about $3 billion each, America's subs are not cheap. Furthermore, the US can only build one or two per year, with the current Los Angeles class of attack submarines approaching the end of their useful life. China, on the other hand, is building a large submarine factory that will be able to build 4 submarines per year.

Japan is not a super power and never will be. A super power must project force, kind of hard to do that when you need to gas up your diesels in the middle of the pacific to charge your Li ion batteries. There hasnt been a game changer battery technology developed in decades; its been a slow progression from lead acids to nickel hydrides to liions to phosphate liions. Telsa is now leading with a new li ion but its nothing game changer. Japan is able to build niche ships/planes/subs because they are under the protective umbrella of the US defense.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Nothing special of a 3000ton SSK submarine! The Soviet Union built and exports the "Kilo" class submarine has exceeded 3000 tons displacement in 1982! The Kilo class has been exported to many countries including China has 12 of them!

Anyway diesel electric submarine is nowhere to compare with a nuclear attack submarine or a ballistic missiles capable submarine! China has more than 10 nuclear submarines already!

Tonnage is their only similarly. Btw, but Japan and the US Navy had larger DE subs in WWII but nobody would argue those old subs, really surface warships that could submerge for a short period of time, are comparable to modern submarines. Kilos are noisy, comparatively slow and have a relatively short unrefueled range. Japanese subs are much quieter, faster, deeper diving and longer ranged. Comparing a modern Japanese sub to a Kilo class is like comparing a Lexus to a Lada.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The US military has forecast for decades that China would surpass the US in military might sometime between 2030 and 2050

China's demographic trends argue otherwise. China won't have the economy to support such a military.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

1) Nuclear has its place in regional projection, where range and endurance are critical. The trade off is that nuclear will be larger, and because of it's propulsion system, needs to constantly run cooling pumps. This introduces extra noise into the equation.

Nope. Current US nuclear submarine reactors do not require use of cooling pumps except under very high power situations. They have two cooling circuits. For normal cruising they rely on natural circulation. At full honk the flow and propeller noises are such that coolant pump noises are not critical.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

4) New diesel/electric subs have been shown time and time again to be stealthy enough to defeat modern ASW technology. The Swedish Gotland-class vessels managed to do this by theoretically 'sinking' the USS Ronald Regan in exercises in the Pacific. It impressed the US so much that they leased the vessel and a crew from Sweden for a year in 2004 to practice against. The Gotland-class had now been superseded by the new Blekinge-class.

More fanbois mumbo jumbo. All DE subs are noisy when the diesels are running. Nuclear subs are almost without exception quieter than a diesel boat that is running its diesels. DE boats are only really quiet when running on battery power. But battery power is limited and they must be recharged daily at a bare minimum by coming to periscope depth, raising a snorkel and running the diesels. At that point they might as well be banging a big gong inside the boat. Everyone will have a datum on them and the snorkel can be detected by radar.

AIP buys a DE boat extra time on battery power, maybe as long as two weeks, but AIP can at best keep the batteries topped up, run the boats many systems and make 3 or 4 knots of speed, enough to keep the boat trimmed. AIP also requires some means to generate oxygen and scrub out CO2 or the boat must surface regularly and run blowers to clear the air inside. On AIP a boat can patrol a small area at very low speed very quietly. For barrier ops close to home, such subs are dangerous. But as with any such boat, at some point the AIP runs out of fuel, the batteries require a recharge and the boat has to light off its diesels, announcing its presence to the world. That snorkel poking above the surface imposes a speed limit on the boat as well, ten or eleven knots give or take. Certainly nothing like the 30 knots or more nuclear subs can cruise at crossing oceans.

In blue water, DE boats simply do not have enough speed and endurance to chase down fast surface forces. Since they rely on an electric motor drawing current from batteries, there is currently no system out there that makes enough current to generate the kinds of shaft horsepower a nuclear sub easily makes. The old Skipjack class SSNs were about the same tonnage as this new Japanese boat or a Russian Kilo but where the Kilo has maybe 6500 shp and Japanese boats typically have over 8000 shp, the Skipjacks had 15,000 shp. Guess which one is faster under water. Virginia's have 40,000 shaft horsepower. Power equals speed under water. The US Navy's old test boat USS Albacore had 15,000 shp but it was stuffed full of batteries and carried no armament. It didn't need long range or anything, it was simply to learn how to handle the teardrop hull form at high underwater speeds. No operational DE boat has ever had that kind of power. 8500 shp seems to be the max today. And DE boats can only do top speeds for maybe an hour before the batteries are flat and need to be recharged. Then the boat comes to periscope depth, puts up the not so hard to detect snorkel, lights off those noisy diesels and plonks along at the slow speed dictated by that snorkel breaking the surface.

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@Desert Tortoise,

Very informative!

finite vs practically infinite energy source. When I saw the diesel / lith ion battery mention in the article...another not so.... wow! sugoi! moment from me. Had their been mention a new periodic table element battery type, something like that...would of got my attention.

Some poster mentioned a SEAL insertion.....you got to get there and back first...lol

Long range sub parked over the horizon can launch its munitions and be gone.

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