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Japan begins last round of 'research' whaling off Pacific coast

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John Richardson - Why don't they just hunt whales in their own waters?

International water belongs to every nation. Them's the rules.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Why don't they just hunt whales in their own waters?

So should all countries fishing boats be restricted to that countries own waters?

And not endangered whales.

The only endangered whales they hunt are Sei whales. Sei whale population has been increasing at ~2% a year since the 1980's. And just like the Humpback whale that was removed from the endangered list in 1990, Sei whales will soon be removed from the list as their population continues to recover.

And not so many?

If the numbers are sustainable, why not?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Seriously, how do they get away with doing that? Piccachu, dragon ball, and other 'cool-Japan' culture has definitely buttered up many of the younger generational law makers abroad, unfortunately, for japans favour.

Why don't they just hunt whales in their own waters? And not endangered whales. And not so many?

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

ClippetyClop - Not by this country of course. Japan's whole reason for continuing whaling is based on lies. You seem to have bought most of them.

What people aren't buying are the repeated lies that have been told by the eco-terrorists, and racists, who have been demanding that the Japanese do what the animal rights tell them to do. Thanks to the poor planning of the eco-terrorists, Japan has finally withdrawn from the International WHALING Commission. Now the eco-terrorists will have absolutely no say over how, when, or where Japan can practice whaling.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Japan's whole reason for continuing whaling is based on lies.

Their reason to continue whaling is to kill whales for food. What 'lies' is that based on?

Now will you formally renounce the quotes you attributed to me that are blatantly false?

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

As a Sovereign Nation surely Japan has the right to hunt or not hunt whales. If it hadn't been for the development of a synthetic alternative to the whale oil countries such as Australia may well have still been whaling.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

But I am glad we have established that anti-whalers are perfectly happy lying in a sad attempt to justify themselves.

I'm not anti-whaling. If Japan wants to take a few toxic whales from its own waters with which to poison its own populace then good luck to them and the fools that let their kids eat it.

I am against hunting for endangered species. I am against whaling based on the proven lie of 'scientific research'. I am against whaling in ocean sanctuaries specifically designed to protect marine life. I am against seeking to increase catches even in the face of plummeting demand. I am against politicians using whaling to appeal to right-wing nationalists.

I do actually believe that sustainable & responsible whaling is possible. Not by this country of course. Japan's whole reason for continuing whaling is based on lies. You seem to have bought most of them.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

@ClippetyClop None of your claims of what I said are true.

'Whales are endangered due to Europeans / Americans!'

I clearly said mostly, which is true.

'Japan doesn't hunt endangered whales!'

I never said this.

'Japan hunts endangered whales but it's legal!'

Because it is legal.

'It's not 'legal' or 'illegal', it's just 'non-compliant!'

As anyone who can read will see, this was in response to a claim that violating CITES is illegal. It isn't as CITES isn't a law. Hunting whales with an Article VIII permit IS legal.

But I am glad we have established that anti-whalers are perfectly happy lying in a sad attempt to justify themselves.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

@Don, It's interesting how your positions have managed to wriggle around on this thread. It's ironic, since this is how Japanese whalers & dolphin hunters have had to continually find new angles to justify their slaughter.

'Whales are endangered due to Europeans / Americans!'

'Japan doesn't hunt endangered whales!'

'Japan hunts endangered whales but it's legal!'

'It's not 'legal' or 'illegal', it's just 'non-compliant!'

But I'm glad that we have established that Japan hunts endangered whales for commercial purposes.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

I cannot understand why they say it is for research. How many whales do they need to kill for research. And also, why do they all say they don't eat it and that long ago, they used to serve it in their school lunches, but they don't eat it now - They all lying. They just say that to make the west think that they don't it it when in actuality they are still eating it secretly. That documentary the cove was truly horrible and heartbreaking. Why would anyone want to hurt whales and dolphin..!? And in such large numbers and as barbaric?? Such beautiful animals.

-8 ( +4 / -12 )

It's quite simple; CITES correctly judges that the international trade of endangered whale species by Japan is illegal.

What is quite simple is that CITES said no such thing. They said it wasn't in compliance which is not the same thing as illegal. Also that was after their opinion was it was for commercial purposes rather than scientific, a position Japan disagrees with. But what did Japan do?

to not authorize any harvest of the sei whales from the high seas in this region until the Standing Committee has assessed Japan's progress in implementing the remedial actions

So they stopped. Meaning your whinging is years out of date. Especially when your original objection was to the claim that

A few are still in danger mostly due to the lingering effects of European/American whaling in the 1800's and early 1900's

I have shown that Sei whales are recovering at ~2% a year since the 1970's (despite Japan taking an average of ~100 a year since 2000). Meaning they are still in danger because of hunting before the 70's, when Norway, the UK and the USSR account for the vast majority of Sei whales taken.

6 ( +11 / -5 )

@Don, From the CITES website

The Standing Committee debated the “introduction from the sea” of sei whales, which is considered as international trade under CITES, from the western North Pacific population by Japan and determined that this activity was for commercial purposes and therefore not in compliance with the Convention.

https://www.cites.org/eng/news/CITES-annual-meeting-sees-States-stepping-up-action-against-the-over-exploitation-of-precious-timber-and-other-species_05102018

It's quite simple; CITES correctly judges that the international trade of endangered whale species by Japan is illegal. Japan can issue all the permits it wants. You can issue all the hardlies you want.

-10 ( +3 / -13 )

Wrong again I'm afraid champ. It isn't 'internal trade' as the whales were 'researched' in international waters, thus making it 'international trade'. CITES correctly adjudged it as such, and classed it as 'illegal'. An illegal international trade of endangered species. Be proud of that 'tradition'.

Hardly.

   5. The introduction from the sea of any specimen of a species included in Appendix I shall require the prior grant of a certificate from a Management Authority of the State of introduction. A certificate shall only be granted when the following conditions have been met:

>            (a) a Scientific Authority of the State of introduction advises that the introduction will not be detrimental to the survival of the species involved;

           (b) a Management Authority of the State of introduction is satisfied that the proposed recipient of a living specimen is suitably equipped to house and care for it; and

           (c) a Management Authority of the State of introduction is satisfied that the specimen is not to be used for primarily commercial purposes.

Japan has issued research permits for the killing of Sei whales and being that they are the "State of introduction" their actions are legal under CITES.

Well this is embarrassing. You didn't read and understand the facts, and then you lied.

As my quotes and citations clearly show I do read and understand the facts. Meanwhile you, not so much.

6 ( +11 / -5 )

"Their country, their culture, their right."

That is such a dismissive, childish and simple 'argument' right there. Can ya' dig a little deeper?

-7 ( +5 / -12 )

Tuna, Mackerel, whale, doesn't matter. Japan overfishes them all and one day they'll be unsurprisingly surprised when there's nothing left to fish!

This!

-7 ( +4 / -11 )

Complete nonsense.

Hardly.

But a lack of facts and a lack of understanding of facts is nonsense.

https://www.iucnredlist.org/species/2475/130482064

Current population trend

Increasing

Number of mature individuals

50,000

Assuming that the population was about 50% “exploitable” when commercial whaling ceased in 1975, the recent abundance estimate (2008-12, see above) would correspond roughly to a doubling of the population over the 35-year intervening period, representing a recovery rate of about 2% per year.

A 75% reduction in Sei Whale catch rates at California whaling stations during the 1960s

Note that 'California whaling stations' would be American whaling.

And it's illegal by the Committee to the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species

Committee to the Convention on International "Trade" in Endangered Species Lists Sei whales in Appendix I.

First off, as the name states, CITES deals with International Trade. It does not deal with Internal Trade. So Japan killing Sei whales is NOT illegal under CITES as long as it is for use in Japan. Second, being in Appendix I doesn't even make International Trade illegal, it just requires a permit from the exporting and importing countries.

To have a fact based discussion of an issue kind of requires reading and understand the facts. Not making things up and lying.

7 ( +11 / -4 )

A few are still in danger mostly due to the lingering effects of European/American whaling in the 1800's and early 1900's

Complete nonsense. Japan killed 134 Sei Whales in 2017, a species listed as 'Endangered'. In other words Japan, not European/American whalers are driving them to extinction. And it's illegal by the Committee to the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of wild fauna and flora (CITES) which Japan is a signature.

Japan is subsidizing killing endangered species to supply toxic meat to a populace that no longer wants to eat it. But yeah, "culture" etc

-8 ( +5 / -13 )

your opinion is incorrect. None of those other countries mentioned were members of the IWC. They did not spend the last thirty years lying to other members of he IWC, nor did they buy votes to support their BA research whaling.

Your facts are wrong. Iceland and Norway are both members of the IWC.

Japan hasn't lied to the IWC. They issued permits as allowed by Article VIII. They produced their research data, which the IWC Scientific Committee repeatedly said was useful. And they made no secret of the fact they desired a return to commercial whaling.

There is no proof that Japan bought votes, although it is possible. Meanwhile the anti-whalers admit that they bought votes. Heck, they paid countries IWC dues and had their own members appointed as the IWC representatives from some of those countries.

Oh, and the anti-whalers lied about the moratorium. They refused to conduct the periodic reviews required by their own moratorium. And they created a 'sanctuary' in violation of the IWC's own regulations. A 'sanctuary' that a study commissioned by the IWC Scientific Committee said was useless.

I agree recalcitrant pride is the right of any countries culture, but not it if effects the worlds ocean resources which isnt solely any countries right to pillage as they please.

Has Japan overfished whales in the past 30 years? Do they propose to overfish them now?

Many countries that complain about Japanese whale have and continue to overfish tuna and many other species. pointing a finger at Japan is kind of hypocritical.

9 ( +13 / -4 )

I am against Japan's whaling. It is anachronistic and cruel. Having said that, I wonder why do the westerners have such a strong feeling about anti-whaling. Is that because you have the same feeling cats and dogs? Is that because whales are mammals? Is that because whales are disappearing rare mammals? Is that because the way hunting whales is cruel?

Yes.

-10 ( +2 / -12 )

Absolutely brilliantly argued, old man

nothing brillant about it just arrogant bliss. No country has the right to unsustainable fish the worlds oceans with no ramifications. Japan ocean conservation is abysmal at best. Tuna, eel many other fish species either threatened of endangered. Western powers have shown in the past how easily whales can become endangered from over fishing. I agree recalcitrant pride is the right of any countries culture, but not it if effects the worlds ocean resources which isnt solely any countries right to pillage as they please.

-6 ( +6 / -12 )

Tatsuya Isoda, just how much more income could you attract to Aomori by employing those fishing "boats" sponsoring whale watching trips??? A lot more

Anything other than opinion to back that claim?

So after all these years of supposed "research", they still haven't found what they are looking for?

They have found lots of things. But just like countries taking a census every few years, research on wild animal populations continue over years or even decades with ongoing updates.

Is that because whales are disappearing rare mammals?

They aren't. At least not because of any current whaling.

Mercury, lead, cesium and strontium are never mentioned in the whale research.

Yes, they are. If you look at previous discussions on whaling articles here you will find people mention them and link to research on them.

If ‘research’ involves killing the animals year after year then surely there must be some failure in the research methodology.

Why? To sample internal organs kind of requires killing. And to monitor conditions over time kind of requires continued sampling over years. Really rather standard research methodology.

Whales will be extincted soon

Probably not. Most species are doing fairly well. Some are increasing. A few are still in danger mostly due to the lingering effects of European/American whaling in the 1800's and early 1900's.

7 ( +11 / -4 )

@ Quercetum - Because it is easier to bash Japan. They like to see the bully bullied, and think the bully deserves to be bullied. That’s my honest opinion.

your opinion is incorrect. None of those other countries mentioned were members of the IWC. They did not spend the last thirty years lying to other members of he IWC, nor did they buy votes to support their BA research whaling. This is where the resentment towards Japan cane from. It has nothing to do with bullies being bullied. It’s all about the BS Japan has been spouting fir the last 30 odd years.

-7 ( +4 / -11 )

Their country, their culture, their right.

Ah? Not really. The world advanced above this selfish concept after the problems this kind of thinking in the 1940s.

-6 ( +5 / -11 )

I love the "this is our culture" routine these people get themselves all pissy-fitted about, especially when they have no explanation for the fact that their first "cultural" whaling vessel the Japanese ever had was built in Glasgow and stocked with Norwegian tech.

-4 ( +8 / -12 )

Their country, their culture, their right.

Absolutely brilliantly argued, old man.

What Japan does in it's own territorial waters is Japans business. Beyond that, things get a little more complicated.

-10 ( +3 / -13 )

Can someone explain to me why Norwegian and Icelandic whaling which is much larger in scale than that of Japan attracts relatively little attention? To be sure, it gets some attention, but very little relative to that of Japan. If nothing else, Norwegian and Icelandic whaling should get some attention when condemning Japan because both countries sell whale meat to Japan. In effect they are doing stealth whaling for Japan.

Because it is easier to bash Japan. They like to see the bully bullied, and think the bully deserves to be bullied. That’s my honest opinion.

6 ( +12 / -6 )

Whales will be extincted soon like Tigers and polar bears and many other animals, and when that happens they will say oh we should have done something...

People in this world do not care about animals, its like in Africa they kill elephants for their tusks just to make some money selling it to China or any other country.

It is really disappointing living in a world where we only care about how we can just get money by killing anything walk or swim in this lands and seas.

just hope people once in their life think of the impact that will happen in the long run.

-7 ( +5 / -12 )

In general I am against whale hunting, but in certain circumstances, where whale numbers are on the increase and its sustainable,( like the minky whale) it is ok, but the wonton wholesale slaughter of everything, in not, the blue whale is still on the endangered species list with some others, In the UK some years ago we and other countries decimated the fish stocks in the North Sea, "big catches, big profit", but we were taking way to much for it to be sustainable, needless to say fish stocks plummeted, since the government implemented strict quoters and fines if we caught to much, the result is fish stocks are coming back up. the moral of the story is don't rape the sea! look after it and it will look after you. Japan need to teach the fishermen what they can and can't take, then there will be enough for everyone and still be there in the future.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

This is a very sad and disappointing photo, but illustrates well the lack of empathy in society here.

-4 ( +6 / -10 )

So the so called scientific whaling ends and the commercial whaling begins but not in the Antarctic since its too far and too expensive. Will the annual government subsidies now also end including the building of a new whaling factory ship which probably no longer required. There were several whaling companies but today only one remains. Will it still make a profit without taxpayer money.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

"Their country, their culture, their right."

Ganbare Japan! - Absolutely brilliantly argued, old man.

Our world, our culture, our right - to have this farcical slaughter stopped.

-7 ( +7 / -14 )

Simple: If you are disgusted by this, act. Don’t buy Japan.Inc. If you feel all cultures have “ the right" to express themselves no matter the point in our development morally, ethically, scientifically as a species, leave it be, but apply that logic across the board.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Mercury, lead, cesium and strontium are never mentioned in the whale research. Strange.

"But for Tetsuya Endo, a professor at the Health Sciences University of Hokkaido, there is a far more important issue related to the hunt that the public and the government must address."

“Between December 2007 and July 2008, myself and a team of scientists and researchers took hair samples from 30 male and 20 female residents of the Taiji area. In three cases, the levels of mercury present were more than 50 parts per million, high enough that it was possible nerve damage, like that seen in victims of Minamata disease, could occur,” Endo told The Japan Times in an interview last week."

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2009/09/23/national/mercury-danger-in-dolphin-meat/

"Despite the public awareness of mercury poisoning in Japan because of the Minamata disaster, the health and agriculture ministries have done little to inform people about mercury levels in whale and dolphin meat, Professor Endo and other biologists say. While the health ministry has conducted surveys of dolphins and pilot whales that show levels of 10 to 50 times the advisory level, the only warning it has issued is for pregnant women."

https://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/21/world/asia/21dolphin.html

Canada runs a thing called the Northern Contaminants Program which exists to "reduce and, wherever possible, eliminate contaminants in traditionally harvested foods, while providing information that assists informed decision making by individuals and communities in their food use."

http://www.science.gc.ca/eic/site/063.nsf/eng/h_7A463DBA.html

The website probably contains information about mercury content of whale and dolphin meat eaten by Inuit and other aboriginal peoples in the Arctic. May well be worth trawling through the reports, if you have time!

-5 ( +7 / -12 )

bullfighterToday 08:51 am JST

Can someone explain to me why Norwegian and Icelandic whaling which is much larger in scale than that of Japan attracts relatively little attention? To be sure, it gets some attention, but very little relative to that of Japan. If nothing else, Norwegian and Icelandic whaling should get some attention when condemning Japan because both countries sell whale meat to Japan. In effect they are doing stealth whaling for Japan.

Others have already addressed this and the same question has been answered on this forum countless timess.

Scandinavian countries didn't attract international attention by whaling 10.000s kms on the other side of the planet in the last pristine(?) marine wilderness in the world.

The breeding grounds of the Southern Antarctic whales covered a much more extensive area than the Scandinavian whales and included countries such as Australia, New Zealand, Oceania, Madagascar, Africa, Brazil, Peru etc. In many of these countries whale watching is hugely popular.

Scandinavian countries didn't float the idea of whaling under the "guise" of research for decades. They straight out said and did it for commercial reasons.

There are other reasons but probably these constitute the principal ideas.

Cuteness is irrelevant to most as a reason.

-7 ( +8 / -15 )

The US also has a rich tradition of "harvesting" whales....almost to extinction, the way the bison almost disappeared and certainly the way of the passenger pigeon, which blackened the skies of the US in the 19th century. The Japanese fishing industry has huge influence over the way the country's waterways are managed. They control the fish in the rivers of Hokkaido. I've even been chased by boat from ocean buoys while casting for small tuna. What's my point? Well, whaling is subsidized. In years past it was discovered that much of the whale meat and byproducts were used for dog and cat food.

-3 ( +5 / -8 )

Bullfighter, I imagine Norwegians or Icelanders don’t insist their fishing is for scientific purposes. Why lie? If they’re going to sell whale meat, say so straight forward. 

For years I taught about whaling as part of a course on the foreign image of Japan. I always said that my personal opinion was that calling it "research whaling" was idiotic and invited additional criticism above and beyond that which would come from whaling itself. I could never find a good explanation for why the government used the terminology it did.

Selling the meat was, however, required by the loophole that allowed research whaling, something provided for by the IWC conventions. The alternative of discarding it is much worse than selling it.

I heard long time ago that Japanese who visited American fish markets found fat part of tuna were only thrown away and the Japanese picked them up almost free. 

When I lived in California in the 1980s, visiting Japanese were amazed at how inexpensive the fatty part of tuna was. It was inexpensive because Americans did not like it. Similarly, Japanese regard sea urchin eggs as a delicacy. Americans have seen sea urchins as a pest.

The gyudon restaurants in Japan were intially able to offer very low cost "beef bowls" because they found a way to prepare a very cheap beef cut that Americans did not buy.

Mercury, lead, cesium and strontium are never mentioned in the whale research. Strange.

It gets some mention in newspaper articles but not enough. I rather like whale meat but am reluctant to eat it unless it has been checked for heavy metals, pesticide residues, PCB, and the like. Attempts in Japan to put whale meat back on school lunches have been stymied in part by Japanese who have raised the residues and contamination issue. I certainly would not want my kids eating whale meat.

7 ( +11 / -4 )

If ‘research’ involves killing the animals year after year then surely there must be some failure in the research methodology.

-3 ( +11 / -14 )

The whole "whaling for science" thing has been a lie for years; no wonder no one sympathizes with Japanese whalers.

Japan is an amazing country full of skilled, intelligent, hardworking people. I lived there for some years...

It's stupid for them to do this. It damages their reputation around the world and makes them look petty and childish.

I hope they reconsider.

-3 ( +11 / -14 )

Mercury, lead, cesium and strontium are never mentioned in the whale research. Strange.

-9 ( +7 / -16 )

Can someone explain to me why Norwegian and Icelandic whaling which is much larger in scale than that of Japan attracts relatively little attention? To be sure, it gets some attention, but very little relative to that of Japan. If nothing else, Norwegian and Icelandic whaling should get some attention when condemning Japan because both countries sell whale meat to Japan. In effect they are doing stealth whaling for Japan.

BF,

Scroll to top of this page for your answer, you wont se Scandinavia Today or similar!

And yeah they don't lie about what they are doing.

I have often said Japan should just stick to a bit of coastal whaling & few would care or protest, after all the Antarctic  BS it seems Japan may well just do that!! Whodda thunk that !

-11 ( +5 / -16 )

Has their bogus "research" possibly hypothesized that we as a species should stop destroying other magnificent species. There is no need for this anymore. A wealthy first world nation should not need to rape the oceans to feed themselves. They are smarter than that.

-12 ( +5 / -17 )

Tuna, Mackerel, whale, doesn't matter. Japan overfishes them all and one day they'll be unsurprisingly surprised when there's nothing left to fish!

-3 ( +13 / -16 )

Whale tastes surprisingly good. You should try some.

I've never had it cooked, only as sashimi, but I can't say I liked it. It wasn't horrible, but wasn't all that good either.

7 ( +12 / -5 )

Can someone explain to me why Norwegian and Icelandic whaling which is much larger in scale than that of Japan attracts relatively little attention?

I think Iceland's whale catch is far lower than Japan's. Norway's is slightly higher in recent years. One reason they perhaps don't get such strong opposition is that the whaling is restricted to their own waters. (That's not to say there is no opposition.) I wonder if Japan's restricting whaling to its own waters will see a drop in protests.

-3 ( +11 / -14 )

Bullfighter, I imagine Norwegians or Icelanders don’t insist their fishing is for scientific purposes. Why lie? If they’re going to sell whale meat, say so straight forward. I guess it’s too late. Can’t change a lie once it’s out there.
-1 ( +16 / -17 )

Whale tastes surprisingly good. You should try some. People in Britain, one of the most adamant anti-whaling countries, used to eat whale during World War 2 when their food imports were disrupted by German U-boats.

5 ( +21 / -16 )

I see some of this research whales canned at the local Fuji Garden store.

-7 ( +5 / -12 )

Can someone explain to me why Norwegian and Icelandic whaling which is much larger in scale than that of Japan attracts relatively little attention? To be sure, it gets some attention, but very little relative to that of Japan. If nothing else, Norwegian and Icelandic whaling should get some attention when condemning Japan because both countries sell whale meat to Japan. In effect they are doing stealth whaling for Japan.

14 ( +22 / -8 )

Have they found out yet if it tastes good or not?

-5 ( +11 / -16 )

Their country, their culture, their right.

Absolutely brilliantly argued, old man.

-3 ( +21 / -24 )

Yep! So next season it becomes wanton slaughter for greed and profit. It has nothing to do with product demand.

-8 ( +10 / -18 )

SchopenhauerToday  07:17 am JST

I am against Japan's whaling. It is anachronistic and cruel. Having said that, I wonder why do the westerners have such a strong feeling about anti-whaling. 

Speaking for myself I suspect that it only continues because it's good for politicians' reelection prospects. Shimonoseki, for instance, is a centre for "research" into whaling and guess whose over-represented constituency that's in. Hachinohe is also right in the middle of an LDP "kingdom" so my guess is that anything that gets said about whaling reviving local economies or being necessary for research is a lot of cobblers.

-4 ( +13 / -17 )

A lot of the whale meat I find in supermarkets in Japan comes from the Atlantic, meaning caught by Iceland or Norway.

What gives.

19 ( +23 / -4 )

I am against Japan's whaling. It is anachronistic and cruel. Having said that, I wonder why do the westerners have such a strong feeling about anti-whaling. Is that because you have the same feeling cats and dogs? Is that because whales are mammals? Is that because whales are disappearing rare mammals? Is that because the way hunting whales is cruel?

1 ( +9 / -8 )

Their country, their culture, their right.

-1 ( +26 / -27 )

So after all these years of supposed "research", they still haven't found what they are looking for?

5 ( +25 / -20 )

Tatsuya Isoda, just how much more income could you attract to Aomori by employing those fishing "boats" sponsoring whale watching trips??? A lot more, and no controversy. Instead, welcoming eyes of the world would salute the good people of Aomori instead of castigating them, and you. Please change your mind. Leave the whales be.

-4 ( +16 / -20 )

Why oh why isn't that whale left alone to do its much more important work to the health of the oceans by swimming in it? Does not belong in a net or on anyone's "research" dinner plate. Shame, Japan, shame.

2 ( +23 / -21 )

Japan is a rule based nation. If it doesn't agree with the laws, which are discriminating most times, it will not ignore, but withdraw.

0 ( +18 / -18 )

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