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Japan catches 177 whales in northwest Pacific for 'research whaling'

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They weren't caught, they had an explosive tipped harpoon shot into their head. Scientifically I believe it's called killed. But I have to do more "reaseach" about the possible effects of a grenade being shot into a cranium. Must apply for a grant, and open a restaurant while I'm at it.

9 ( +22 / -13 )

I still don't get why they call it a "research"? It's a slaughter, plain and simple. We need to save these beautiful animals until our enormous greed and complete lack of responsibility exterminates them to the point of extinction.

7 ( +20 / -13 )

exterminates them to the point of extinction

Hmm?

Anyways, the problem is that we have no idea of actual whale stocks, because anti-whaling nations will not let the required testing of stocks as outlined in the moratorium happen, likely because they are worried that the truth will show whales are no longer endangered, taking away their major argument against whaling.

1 ( +13 / -12 )

they are worried that the truth will show whales are no longer endangered, taking away their major argument against whaling

Not all of us think the size of 'stocks' (ugly expression, shows they're already being thought of as nothing more than cans on a supermarket shelf) is the 'major argument' against whaling.

It's impossible to guarantee an instant clean kill of a marine mammal on the open sea, and impossible for a vet to ascertain that death has occurred. The ones Cricky mentions, with the exploding harpoon in the head, are the lucky ones; they've only had to suffer the terrifying and exhausting chase prior to having their brain exploded from the inside. Less lucky animals are struck non-fatally, and can spend long minutes, sometimes more than an hour, slowly expiring as they bleed out and their organs spill into the water. Or they may be hoisted up by the tail so that their head is under water, and they drown. Do you know how long it takes a whale to drown?

It's the unbelievable cruelty of the 'research' that is the major argument against it.

9 ( +20 / -11 )

Must get down to my local kujiyara - sounds like a fresh catch just landed.

3 ( +14 / -11 )

kujiraya

2 ( +10 / -8 )

My main and only argument against whaling is that any, A-N-Y, murder is inexcusable savagery not belonging in modern, proper socities. Though how those degenerate people claiming "scientific research" when they are murdering animals to consume their flesh... Quite pitiful, how far we have got as a species, and how far away have strayed many.

-7 ( +7 / -14 )

this really is a first-world problem when you can complain about how cruel slaughtering animals for meat is. not many poor countries are concerned about this "cruelty."

5 ( +15 / -10 )

Sounds like a small, sustainable number for the catch, good news!

3 ( +10 / -7 )

And Norway gets to go silently away with their hunt, which is even double the japanese quota!!

10 ( +19 / -9 )

Costs money to maintain a fleet of ships, costs money to refrigerate years of unwanted blubber. Costs money to hire PR people, politicians, transport companies. Costs money to fund an Institute to totally ingnore findings from other countries. Because they used non leathal methods not a Japanese strong point. All paid for with tax payers money your money. The true cost per kg would be so much that the fraction of people who do eat it now couldn't. Another economic dark hole funded with your money. Save face but loose your pants.

0 ( +9 / -9 )

Japan completed Tuesday its "research whaling" in offshore waters in the northwestern Pacific for fiscal 2017, catching a total of 177 whales as planned, 

Congratulations to the Japanese fisheries department for conclusive research that there 'were' 177 whales in the northern Pacific. It's a bit of a shame they are not there anymore though, isn't it?

2 ( +11 / -9 )

Stop wasting my bloody taxes on this nonsense.

3 ( +17 / -14 )

Must get down to my local kujiraya

Make sure you eat well to contribute to reducing the ridiculous surplus of this stuff.

If you eat too much, send me a sample of your blood and I'll make you a nice thermometer.

1 ( +14 / -13 )

One element of "sustainable" fishing/hunting/killing is that you should try to take no more than what is needed (another being that you should leave enough to sustain the population of course). With massive amounts of whale meat in storage, why does Japan even see the need to resume commercial whaling? It is clear that the industry can't sell enough to support itself (hence massive subsidies) even just posing as "research".

How they think that commercial whaling (i.e. without subsidies) would work is really beyond me. They would be bankrupt by the end of the first season.

5 ( +13 / -8 )

Used to go down to Kaiji on annual basis for the best Kujiradon in Japan.

Awesome stuff

2 ( +13 / -11 )

Strikebreaker - And Norway gets to go silently away with their hunt, which is even double the japanese quota!!

Yes, that's right. However, there is major difference with the Norwegian hunt. The people of Norway actually eat it, unlike Japan where most of the catch is stored in freezers around the country. Their 'master plan' to get rid of it is to give it away to schools to force-feed kids, whether they like it or not. And, here's an interesting little fact. Any surplus whale meat in Norway is bought by Japan to be added to the already over-stocked freezers and to gain favor for the pro-whalers.

There is no way Japan can make whale hunting commercially viable. They cannot get rid of the thousands of tons they already have stored around the country in freezers from the few hundred whales they catch every year. It's just total malarky and a complete waste of tax payer's money.

5 ( +13 / -8 )

All sorts of intelligent animals are killed for human uses. As long as they aren't anywhere near endangered, I don't see any moral difference between a whale and goats or pigs or chickens or deer being killed, provided the method is quick.

However, killing techniques that last more than 10-20 seconds would be inhuman, IMHO.

6 ( +11 / -5 )

Used to go down to Kaiji on annual basis for the best Kujiradon in Japan.

Awesome stuff

Lovely.

How much did it cost you? Sorry, wrong question. How much did it cost us?

4 ( +13 / -9 )

134 Sri Whales ? They are critically endangered species. How people responsible for this in Japan be so deliberately ignorant. These mammals are not only endangered from human hunting and plastic pollution. They are highly intelligent creatures. Also when you put them in tank and make them perform for people, they get depression and go insane.

Japanese Shinto cuture are meant to connect to nature. Therefore this cruelty is naturally not in your culture. I don't understand.

-4 ( +9 / -13 )

177 is a bit excessive for research, don't you think?

Not just a bit, it is extremely excessive.

0 ( +13 / -13 )

Excellent news.  I look forward to consuming the by-product of this important research.

1 ( +10 / -9 )

Michelle HarrisonToday 08:13 pm JST 134 Sri Whales ? They are critically endangered species. How people responsible for this in Japan be so deliberately ignorant

"Northern Hemisphere populations are listed as CITES Appendix II, indicating they are not immediately threatened with extinction, but may become so if they are not listed.

4 ( +10 / -6 )

I love Japan, really, but I can't understand why this crime is committed with total impunity. Killing 177 whales in order to open their stomachs just to see what's inside is an stupid pretext that I can't agreed with.

1 ( +12 / -11 )

How much did it cost you? Sorry, wrong question. How much did it cost us?

Presuming the commentator lives in Japan, pays taxes, too; he or she actually pays more than "we" do.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

Research Whaling, what a pile of "Bull"! Why not kill everything in the Oceans!

-2 ( +10 / -12 )

Research whaling my b***... the only research they do is on their taste!

-3 ( +9 / -12 )

Presuming the commentator lives in Japan, pays taxes, too; he or she actually pays more than "we" do.

Yes, I live in Japan. I pay taxes. Why would I say "stop wasting my bloody taxes" if I wasn't paying them?

Are you now going to address why taxpayer money should be used to support this industry?

Nobody seems to want to address this question.

-1 ( +9 / -10 )

Where can we view this "research?"

7 ( +9 / -2 )

Whales are the most intelligent creatures on this planet! They are both individuals and telepathically share a group mind. They don't kill us because they are peaceful and want to help us evolve to become like them. All that's stopping humanity is closed minds trapped in limited egocentric self-serving consciousness!

-4 ( +8 / -12 )

seriously why dont they just come out and say what theyre thinking and stop with all the research BS. "We want to keep killing as many whales as possible even if we waste billions yen in taxpayer money. Our end game is to buy as many votes as we need at IWC so we can have the ban overturned, then its full steam ahead killing as many whales as we can do , sell as much pet food as we can , make as much profit as we can"

2 ( +8 / -6 )

that any, A-N-Y, murder is inexcusable savagery not belonging in modern, proper socities

So please define murder. You seem to believe that killing animals is murder. So is spraying for insects murder? How about pesticides on crops? Antibacterial drugs?

It's a bit of a shame they are not there anymore though, isn't it?

But there are. Clearly stated that they sited another 468. So there were at least 645 and that was just in the small area where they were whaling and just the ones they saw.

They are critically endangered species.

Not according to the IUCN.

177 is a bit excessive for research, don't you think?

No, not really. To get a representative sample would easily require that many or more. The mathematics behind sample size is well understood and actually 177 is probably on the low side for decent statistics.

Where can we view this "research?"

If you were actually interested it is listed on the ICR website.

Our end game is to buy as many votes as we need at IWC so we can have the ban overturned, then its full steam ahead killing as many whales as we can do , sell as much pet food as we can , make as much profit as we can"

If that is what they wanted to do then all they would have to do is QUIT the IWC. Then they could hunt without limit and without calling it research. So something about the claim must be wrong.

2 ( +7 / -5 )

WTFJAPAN Japan is not lying about the reseach ofbwhales. They are reseaching to see if commercial whaling can be restored. You can check their website

-6 ( +4 / -10 )

WTFJAPAN Japan is not lying about the reseach ofbwhales. They are reseaching to see if commercial whaling can be restored. You can check their website

They make no secret that they want the moratorium (it isn't a ban) lifted. And as the word implies, the moratorium was NEVER intended to be forever. But other than that point he is lying.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Jim PoushinskyToday  12:11 am JST

Whales are the most intelligent creatures on this planet! They are both individuals and telepathically share a group mind

ROFLMAO!

3 ( +7 / -4 )

Where can we view this "research?"

At your local kujira restaurant. Or at your local public school/old people's care home when it's 'force-feed the inmates cheap subsidised meat' day.

-2 ( +6 / -8 )

cleoToday 07:53 am JSTWhere can we view this "research?"

At your local kujira restaurant. Or at your local public school/old people's care home when it's 'force-feed the inmates cheap subsidised meat' day.

No, those are places where you can find out what it tastes like. The research information can be viewed at the ICR website. Or if you have access to the IWC Scientific Committee's records.

2 ( +7 / -5 )

No, those are places where you can find out what it tastes like.

Exactly. That's the whole point of the 'research'.

Scratch any ICR sycophant and he'll soon start blubbering about 'food culture' and 'tradition'.

0 ( +7 / -7 )

Seriously. It's the attitudes of Japan like this that make me wonder if Japan has ANY sense of dignity...

Disgusting behavior.

-2 ( +6 / -8 )

cleoToday 08:27 am JSTNo, those are places where you can find out what it tastes like.

Exactly. That's the whole point of the 'research'.

Then what s being submitted to the IWC? I don't believe the IWC Scientific Committee is interested in reports about whale meat taste.

Scratch any ICR sycophant and he'll soon start blubbering about 'food culture' and 'tradition'.

That is because the anti-whaling crowd perpetuate the myth that the "food culture" and "tradition" don't exist, in defiance of historical evidence supporting both. The reason of course is that there is no rational objective reason for the view, merely an emotional one.

0 ( +6 / -6 )

That is because the anti-whaling crowd perpetuate the myth that the "food culture" and "tradition" don't exist, in defiance of historical evidence supporting both. The reason of course is that there is no rational objective reason for the view, merely an emotional one.

The Japanese have fished out their own waters. With technological improvements, they now go into non-Japanese waters to pillage from other nations and future generations. Some 'tradition'...

The reason of course is that there is no rational objective reason for the view, merely an emotional one.

When logic and decency is ignored for so long (like your arguments here), sometimes people get 'emotional' as you put it. I'd rather be that than a thoughtless weeaboo/yes-man/tryhard.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

AgentXToday 10:30 am JSTThat is because the anti-whaling crowd perpetuate the myth that the "food culture" and "tradition" don't exist, in defiance of historical evidence supporting both. The reason of course is that there is no rational objective reason for the view, merely an emotional one.

The Japanese have fished out their own waters. With technological improvements, they now go into non-Japanese waters to pillage from other nations and future generations. Some 'tradition'...limiyed whaking

No they haven't. Japan conducts limited whaling in it's own waters. Japan has been waling in international waters since the 1920s. Western nations have been doing it since the 1800s. International waters are non-anybody's waters that any nation can traverse or utilize. The "Tradition: refers to the practice of hunting whales which is documented to go as far back as the 600s AD.

"Whaling in Japan dates back to the seventh century during the Yamato-Asuka period in ancient Japan. The oldest Japanese book in existence, called the Kojiki, chronicled that the Emperor Jimmu, the first emperor of Japan, ate whale meat. In addition to the Kojiki whaling is also mentioned in numerous other historical writings in Japan."

The reason of course is that there is no rational objective reason for the view, merely an emotional one.

When logic and decency is ignored for so long (like your arguments here), sometimes people get 'emotional' as you put it. I'd rather be that than a thoughtless weeaboo/yes-man/tryhard.

Offensive personal attacks are the best you can do?

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

Then what s being submitted to the IWC?

Data needed to squeeze them through the 'research' loophole. Like when you go to Disneyland you have to pay to go in, but you don't go for the purpose of giving Disneyland your money. Just like they don't kill the whales for the purpose of research, they do the 'research' to get their hands on the meat.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

Whaling in Japan dates back to the seventh century

We should get going on bringing back human sacrifice or ubasute then shouldn't we? Traditions aren't they, we have to pass them on.

I have no problem with Japan catching a few whales, but just as many as you need if that's okay. Let's get rid of the ones in the freezers first though eh? And don't give any to the kids, it's full of all kinds of toxic muck you know.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

And don't give any to the kids, it's full of all kinds of toxic muck you know.

No more toxic than any other fish.

-7 ( +3 / -10 )

@tina, that's complete nonsense and you know it. Compare

https://eia-international.org/whale-dolphin-meat-tested-in-japan-exceeds-mercury-limits

https://www.fda.gov/food/foodborneillnesscontaminants/metals/ucm115644.htm

by every measurement you are wrong

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Whales are the most intelligent creatures on this planet! They are both individuals and telepathically share a group mind.

I was not aware of their telepathic powers. Thanks for sharing.

They don't kill us because they are peaceful and want to help us evolve to become like them.

Become telepathic or seafaring?

All that's stopping humanity is closed minds trapped in limited egocentric self-serving consciousness!

That and evolution taking millions of years, I imagine.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

cleoToday 02:05 pm JSTThen what s being submitted to the IWC?

Data needed to squeeze them through the 'research' loophole

But the IWC Scientific Committee does not reject the data as it's a required part of the program.

Like when you go to Disneyland you have to pay to go in, but you don't go for the purpose of giving Disneyland your money.

Just like they don't kill the whales for the purpose of research, they do the 'research' to get their hands on the meat.

The enormous flaw in this often repeated fallacious argument is that Japan, like some other nations (Norway, Iceland) could easily remain in the IWC , raise an objection and simply refuse to abide by the Moratorium on Commercial Whaling and take as many whales as they want. Or, they could just leave the IWC, again like some other countries (Canada), and still take as any whales as they want. Both of these routes would allow Japan to "get their hands on the meat" far easier and in greater amounts than abiding by the IWC Scientific Research Whaling rules.

So this is like paying money at the gate to get into Disneyland when there is a huge open area with a "Free Admittance" sign right next to it. And some people are already going in through it.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

If that is what they wanted to do then all they would have to do is QUIT the IWC. Then they could hunt without limit and without calling it research. So something about the claim must be wrong. well why havent they quit then!? Ill tell you why its because they want world opinion of japan to be good , defying an international organisation not only is an insult to the other members it give a bad arrogant image of Japan. damage to J exports would be far greater than any gain that the resumption of commercial whaling would ever give. So for now japan will just continue with the fiasco hoping to have their cake and eat it too.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

No more toxic than any other fish. wrong again , its been scientifically proven that all whale meat sold in Japan has high level of mercury, including that caught in the southern oceans. Whales spend half the year in feeding northern waters before swimming south

1 ( +4 / -3 )

OssanAmericaToday  11:02 am JST

AgentXToday 10:30 am JSTThat is because the anti-whaling crowd perpetuate the myth that the "food culture" and "tradition" don't exist, in defiance of historical evidence supporting both. The reason of course is that there is no rational objective reason for the view, merely an emotional one.

The Japanese have fished out their own waters. With technological improvements, they now go into non-Japanese waters to pillage from other nations and future generations. Some 'tradition'...limiyed whaking

No they haven't. Japan conducts limited whaling in it's own waters. Japan has been waling in international waters since the 1920s. Western nations have been doing it since the 1800s. International waters are non-anybody's waters that any nation can traverse or utilize. The "Tradition: refers to the practice of hunting whales which is documented to go as far back as the 600s AD.

"Whaling in Japan dates back to the seventh century during the Yamato-Asuka period in ancient Japan. The oldest Japanese book in existence, called the Kojiki, chronicled that the Emperor Jimmu, the first emperor of Japan, ate whale meat. In addition to the Kojiki whaling is also mentioned in numerous other historical writings in Japan."

The reason of course is that there is no rational objective reason for the view, merely an emotional one.

When logic and decency is ignored for so long (like your arguments here), sometimes people get 'emotional' as you put it. I'd rather be that than a thoughtless weeaboo/yes-man/tryhard.

Offensive personal attacks are the best you can do?

You do realize that Emperor Jimmu didn't exist? It's the first mythological Emperor of Japan thought to be descendant of the goddess Amaterasu ? Kojiki is half mythology half invented stuff.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

wtfjapanToday 10:57 pm JSTIf that is what they wanted to do then all they would have to do is QUIT the IWC. Then they could hunt without limit and without calling it research. So something about the claim must be wrong. well why havent they quit then!? Ill tell you why its because they want world opinion of japan to be good , defying an international organisation not only is an insult to the other members it give a bad arrogant image of Japan. damage to J exports would be far greater than any gain that the resumption of commercial whaling would ever give. So for now japan will just continue with the fiasco hoping to have their cake and eat it too.

Nice imagination but you are completely incorrect. Japan continues to remain an WC member and abides by the IWC Scientific Research Whaling rules because the "Moratorium on Commercial Whaling" was implemented as a temporary measure, to be reviewed ten years later, and to be reconsidered based on updated population data. In other words, Japan is doing EXACTLY what the IWC rules warrant. But the anti-whaling faction has prevented the Moratorium from being reviewed and is preventing any new data that may influence it from being considered. Try to accept that the IWC was created and exists to "Regulate the Whaling Industry", which means taking/killing/harpooning whales. And any "Moratoriums on commercial whaling" and "Sanctuaries" exist for the purpose of conserving whale populations for the benefit of the Whaling Industry. It is in fact the Anti-whaling faction which, rather than leave the IWC because of their position against whaling, have chosen to remain as members for the sole purpose of subverting the organizations purpose and charter.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

wtfjapanToday 11:02 pm JSTNo more toxic than any other fish. wrong again , its been scientifically proven that all whale meat sold in Japan has high level of mercury, including that caught in the southern oceans. Whales spend half the year in feeding northern waters before swimming south

The "Whale meat is high in mercury" myth continues as another argument that anti-whalers reach for to support their case. The absurdity of this claim is that Japan, a country which has suffered from the Minamata incident is very sensitive to Mercury issues. Everyone knows that mercury levels are high in large marine animals, whether fish or mammal, as it accumulates up search focused the food chain. Large fish-eating fish like Swordfish and Tuna are globally known for this. And likewise Dolphins, porpoises, small cetaceans also feed exclusively on fish and end up with the same result. There isn't a paper or article referring to "mercury in whale meat" that doesn't combine "whales and dolphins" to reach their high mercury level conclusions. It is widely accepted that the plankton feeders, the baleen whales like the Minke do not have these "high mercury levels".

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

its been scientifically proven that all whale meat sold in Japan has high level of mercury

So are other fish.  Considering the big size, it is natural that a whale has more mercury than say a saury.

Japanese live long lives so what is the point of discussing mercury level?

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

Toasted Heretic - my personal understanding of whales possessing higher consciousness than humans and trying to help us evolve can be read at

https://universaldigest.com/whales-esp-life-earth/

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

Thank you for that link. This quote from that article pretty much explains your views.

"Jim Poushinsky and I met last year and became friends on social media with a primary concern and regard of whales and ESP (Extra-sensory-perception). We discussed many subjects from UFO/extraterrestrial encounters to his contacts with spiritual and paranormal events;"

I now understand where you're coming from. Have a nice day.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

AgentX - The Japanese have fished out their own waters. With technological improvements, they now go into non-Japanese waters

International water is still international water regardless of whether someone chooses to label international water as "non-Japanese" waters. International water is open to all nations, including the Japanese.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

the IWC Scientific Committee does not reject the data as it's a required part of the program.

And Disneyland does not reject the ticket fee. Your point?

this is like paying money at the gate to get into Disneyland when there is a huge open area with a "Free Admittance" sign right next to it. And some people are already going in through it.

No, it's only the 'poor people' (indigenous subsistence whalers) who get to go through the "Free Admittance" gate.

The ones who object to paying the fee and are not 'poor' are effectively climbing over the wall, not going through a "Free Admittance" gate. That isn't Japan's style, they want to be able to pretend that they are above board and respectable.

Plus, claiming it's 'research' means there are huge government subsidies to be had; if it were a simple commercial operation, the people now benefitting from the subsidies would actually have to work for their money in an unsustainable industry, and naturally they don't want that. Why bother scrambling over the wall when you can get the govmint to pay?

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Toasted Heretic - my personal understanding of whales possessing higher consciousness than humans and trying to help us evolve can be read at

That's nice, Jim. UFO's, telepathy, beings of light, talking whales etc.

Much as I enjoy sci-fi and all that (I've read Von Daniken) I think that whales should be treated with respect; we don't have to ascribe human or alien qualities to them.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Japanese live long lives so what is the point of discussing mercury level?

Haha! Astonishing response, and one you won't find thrown around in Minamata or the Agano River area.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Geez, they are stubborn, aren't they. Their 'Research' has been ridiculed out of the room by any serious and discerning scientific establishment, and yet they insist on maintaining the facade and discourse regardless.

I personally don't support whaling, and I am happy for the moratorium, but if, and when the IWC lifts a ban and allows a controlled quota of whales per country, I'd accept it. What really sticks in my craw though, is countries that just can't play along with the collective and allow the stocks to recover unhindered for 50 years or so. It's such a blip in the big scheme of things. That inability to suck up a bit of personal pride for the sake of the communal good is immature and extremely self centred. To try to disguise it as a bogus 'Research' program is just insulting and offensive to the rest of us, particularly those of us from countries with a history and past culture of whaling.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

simply shameful, no other way to put it.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

cleoToday 09:03 am JSTthe IWC Scientific Committee does not reject the data as it's a required part of the program.

And Disneyland does not reject the ticket fee. Your point?

My point is that it is not "fake data". Which is what you are implying by claiming that the research is a cover for commercial whaling.

this is like paying money at the gate to get into Disneyland when there is a huge open area with a "Free Admittance" sign right next to it. And some people are already going in through it.

No, it's only the 'poor people' (indigenous subsistence whalers) who get to go through the "Free Admittance" gate.

Norway and Iceland, both nations which conduct Commercial Whaling by raising an Objection to the Moratorium are hardly "poor indigenous people".

The ones who object to paying the fee and are not 'poor' are effectively climbing over the wall, not going through a "Free Admittance" gate. That isn't Japan's style, they want to be able to pretend that they are above board and respectable.

So you admit that Japan is carrying out the Scientific Whaling in accordance with IWC Article VIII in a manner "above board and respectable". But you claim that they are only "pretending" to do so. If they are meeting the requirements, then it is simply your personal opinion that they are "pretending".

I repeat, if simply catching whales for meat is the goal, there are far easier and less costly ways to accomplish this.

Japan does not take the "free admittance" route for a simple reason, they are following the IWC's own rules, that the Moratorium will be reviewed based on updated data eventually leading to a lifting limited or otherwise. The anti-whaling faction never want the Moratorium ever reviewed much less lifted or modified, so every effort is made to denounce the Scientific Whaling. 

Plus, claiming it's 'research' means there are huge government subsidies to be had; if it were a simple commercial operation, the people now benefitting from the subsidies would actually have to work for their money in an unsustainable industry, and naturally they don't want that. Why bother scrambling over the wall when you can get the govmint to pay?

If it were Commercial Whaling in objection to the Moratorium, the numbers of whales taken would far offset any "subsidies". Government subsidies exist to make up for limitations, which could be avoided. The people who work are seafaring people carrying out some of the most dangerous kinds of work around, and as with all fisheries related work today face great economic burdens. Your attack upon hard working families as "not working" is both misdirected and uncalled for.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

My point is that it is not "fake data". Which is what you are implying

I made no such implication. Please do not put words into my mouth.

Norway and Iceland, both nations which conduct Commercial Whaling by raising an Objection to the Moratorium are hardly "poor indigenous people".

Norway and Iceland are not walking through the Free Admittance gate (engaging in subsistence whaling). They are climbing over the wall at the back.

Japan is carrying out the Scientific Whaling in accordance with IWC Article VIII 

Last year the IWC decided by 34 votes to 17 to shrink the Article VIII loophole; in future scientific whaling permits will be issued by a standing IWC committee, not by the government of the country doing the 'research'. You're being wantonly imprecise with the truth when you claim that the IWC supports or welcomes Japan's 'research'.

you claim that they are only "pretending" to do so.

I think you'll find the ICJ and the IWC agreed with me.

if simply catching whales for meat is the goal, there are far easier and less costly ways to accomplish this.

Indeed there are. But those less costly ways would mean juicy fat subsidies not going where they are going now, and there are obviously very influential people who do not want that to happen.

If it were Commercial Whaling in objection to the Moratorium, the numbers of whales taken would far offset any "subsidies".

No it wouldn't, because the market is far too small, and it would be even smaller if the price reflected the true cost.

The people who work are seafaring people carrying out some of the most dangerous kinds of work around, and as with all fisheries related work today face great economic burdens. Your attack upon hard working families as "not working".....

I made no attack on 'hard working families', indeed I made no mention of them at all. My attack was on the fat cats who keep on making Japan an embarrassment on the world stage, for the sake of keeping their own ill-gotten profits. Though now you mention it, those 'hard working families' could do better if they got proper jobs at home instead of sailing halfway round the world to butcher animals in the name of so-called 'research'. And if they had proper jobs that paid a proper wage, they wouldn't need to supplement their income by divvying up the unesu, posting it to themselves and then selling it on for a fat profit.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

cleo

Today 12:23 am JST

My point is that it is not "fake data". Which is what you are implying

I made no such implication. Please do not put words into my mouth

Then you agree that the data being submitted to the IWC Scientific Committee is real and valid data? A simple yes or no please.

Norway and Iceland, both nations which conduct Commercial Whaling by raising an Objection to the Moratorium are hardly "poor indigenous people".

Norway and Iceland are not walking through the Free Admittance gate (engaging in subsistence whaling). They are climbing over the wall at the back.

The "Free Admittance Gate" which I threw into this exchange, refers to nations which are carrying out Commercial Whaling by either raising an objection to the Moratorium or by leaving the IWC. It does NOT refer to indigenous/subsistence whaling.

The point here is if all Japan wanted was to catch and eat whales, why bother with the Scientific Research Whaling process.

Japan is carrying out the Scientific Whaling in accordance with IWC Article VIII 

Last year the IWC decided by 34 votes to 17 to shrink the Article VIII loophole; in future scientific whaling permits will be issued by a standing IWC committee, not by the government of the country doing the 'research'. You're being wantonly imprecise with the truth when you claim that the IWC supports or welcomes Japan's 'research'.

You are talking about the future, not now. I am being correct and truthful, until and if the circumstances change as you describe. Until then. Japan is carrying out Scientific Whaling in accordance with IWC Article VIII as it stands today.

you claim that they are only "pretending" to do so.

I think you'll find the ICJ and the IWC agreed with me.

The ICJ ruled that the JARPA II program did not meet the standards of Scientific Whaling, Hence Japan immediately terminated that program. The current program has not been challenged by anyone. I find it funny that you claim that the "IWC Agrees with you", when the IWC is an organization created and existing to regulate the WHALING industry, and all conservation measure are for the purpose of protecting WHALE STOCKS for the benefit of the Whaling Industry.

if simply catching whales for meat is the goal, there are far easier and less costly ways to accomplish this.

Indeed there are. But those less costly ways would mean juicy fat subsidies not going where they are going now, and there are obviously very influential people who do not want that to happen.

Interesting conspiracy theory, you have anything to substantiate that, other than charges?

If it were Commercial Whaling in objection to the Moratorium, the numbers of whales taken would far offset any "subsidies".

No it wouldn't, because the market is far too small, and it would be even smaller if the price reflected the true cost.

The cost would be far lower if Commercial Whaling were carried out with no catch limitations and the cost of whale meat would be lowered resulting in a rise in demand. Your small market would grow.

The people who work are seafaring people carrying out some of the most dangerous kinds of work around, and as with all fisheries related work today face great economic burdens. Your attack upon hard working families as "not working".....

I made no attack on 'hard working families', indeed I made no mention of them at all. My attack was on the fat cats who keep on making Japan an embarrassment on the world stage, for the sake of keeping their own ill-gotten profits.

Again, you have evidence to support this?

Though now you mention it, those 'hard working families' could do better if they got proper jobs at home instead of sailing halfway round the world to butcher animals in the name of so-called 'research'. And if they had proper jobs that paid a proper wage, they wouldn't need to supplement their income by divvying up the unesu, posting it to themselves and then selling it on for a fat profit.

People who work in the fisheries industry, in any country, have proper jobs that provide an import service to their societies. Can you say the same?

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

The cost would be far lower if Commercial Whaling were carried out with no catch limitations and the cost of whale meat would be lowered resulting in a rise in demand. Your small market would grow.

I don’t get this logic Ossan, you’ll have to explain it to me. The price of whale meat is already rock bottom due to heavy subsidization. Despite that demand is still falling every year. They have to give the stuff away to kids. What you’re saying is if Japan were allowed unlimited quotas (please noooo!) then they’d be able to provide at a presumably even cheaper price, which MIGHT stimulate demand. You want to clean out the oceans on a punt it seems. I know of no other industry that would be allowed to work on such shaky economics.

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ClippetyClopToday 09:17 am JSTThe cost would be far lower if Commercial Whaling were carried out with no catch limitations and the cost of whale meat would be lowered resulting in a rise in demand. Your small market would grow.

I don’t get this logic Ossan, you’ll have to explain it to me. The price of whale meat is already rock bottom due to heavy subsidization. Despite that demand is still falling every year. They have to give the stuff away to kids. What you’re saying is if Japan were allowed unlimited quotas (please noooo!) then they’d be able to provide at a presumably even cheaper price, which MIGHT stimulate demand.

It's not that hard to understand. Forget Whale Meat, it applies to any food. If the price of a food item is high, demand will be limited. Many foods have only a limited demand for that reason and exist as "gourmet foods". The price is high due to limited supply or other artificial means, taxes, customs, etc. If the price is lowered due to increased supply the demand will increase.

You want to clean out the oceans on a punt it seems. I know of no other industry that would be allowed to work on such shaky economics.

I don't want to clean out anything. Just pointing out the flaw in claiming there is a low demand for any item where the supply is restricted.

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@Ossan Thanks for the reply. Your argument depends on two things I think; a) Is the supply restricted? b) Is the price high?

From the articles & information I've seen, Japan has as much as 5000 tons of the stuff stockpiled that they can't sell. In 2012 they tried to auction it off; 75% went unsold, didn't even meet the reserve price. So you are left with a product that is plentiful and cheap, and yet is still not in demand. Therefore catching more will surely not help, right? So what I want to know is, why does Japan want to catch more of it? It's illogical, politically motivated and a complete waste of time and money.

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Last year the IWC decided by 34 votes to 17 to shrink the Article VIII loophole;

No they didn't. The vote has no effect on Article VIII. Only a unanimous vote to change the ICRW would change Article VIII or the fact that the Article specifically says research whaling is exempt from all other provisions of the Convention.

in future scientific whaling permits will be issued by a standing IWC committee,not by the government of the country doing the 'research'.

No they won't Article VIII still says the permits will be issued by the member government. The committee will simple review and make a recommendation, which the member government can ignore in whole or in part.

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