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Court refuses to recognize trans woman as parent of child born after transition

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That court said "there is currently nothing in Japanese law to recognize her parental rights,"

A simple DNA test would prove that she is the mother of the child.

Japan keeps bemoaning about low birth rates and lack of families but then turns around and does archaic nonsense like this. The laws and government just seem hellbent on tearing families apart - no joint custody, failure to recognize the biological origins of a child, failure to acknowledge a parent owning up to the fact that they are biologically related to said child...honestly, Japan. Get with the times already.

3 ( +43 / -40 )

I don’t know how those people can look in the mirror after denying a little child the security of having their parent given parental rights.

They go on and on about the importance of family, the sanctity of marriage, that children need two parents, and then deny a child their right to identify their parent as their parent.

This is what you get when bigotry, not love and respect, drives the law.

-2 ( +40 / -42 )

A simple DNA test would prove she is the mother’…..no, it really wouldn’t. It’d prove who the father was.

33 ( +49 / -16 )

Obviously not fair to the parent and child.

17 ( +33 / -16 )

Sex is not assigned at birth and people cannot change sex. Biology 101.

-2 ( +34 / -36 )

@SAME# sex is assigned at birth, yes, and while it’s usually an ´easy’ job to do that (and is different than later gender development, though mis assignment can influence it) statistically you can still literally fill Tokyo stadium with the number of people who were born with sexual characters that made assignment difficult. Even with conservative ‘zero point zero something’ estimates, there are at least 70,000 people in Japan alone that were born with ambiguous sexual organs. Biology 101 might not be enough if you want to seriously discuss sex and gender.

-8 ( +12 / -20 )

They went through IVF or IA if I understand.

Was she recognized as a father of the child in the first place ?

As not married, I believe only the mother was recognized as parent.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

Japan, where many LGBTQ+ people still do not come out to their families, …

Couldn’t such a broad claim be made about many countries?

A 2019 global poll by Pew Research indicated that 68 percent of Japan residents agreed that homosexuality should be accepted by society, nearly equaling the 72% recorded in the U.S. And likely the 30% of Japanese that don’t agree that homosexuality should be accepted by society will gradually die off over the next decade.

1 ( +12 / -11 )

louisferdinandc….the point they were making is that sex is not ‘assigned’ at birth, it’s decided long before birth. Do you think the babies sex is undecided until it takes its first breath of air? It’s not rocket science.

10 ( +17 / -7 )

Disgusting anti-trans bigotry by the Japanese government and court system. They remain enthralled with the backwards thinking of cults such as the Moonies.

-8 ( +21 / -29 )

I agree with the ruling, glad to see a little bit of sanity in a G7 country.

0 ( +27 / -27 )

It doesn't matter if she or he is trans or not, if a person has children, no matter sexuality, children will always theirs...

Why the medievals can't understand this..

I agree with the ruling, glad to see a little bit of sanity in a G7 country.

For example..

-1 ( +16 / -17 )

Court does not create laws. That's up to the legislature. Lacking any law recognizing the trans woman's parental right, the judge couldn't have ruled otherwise.

14 ( +19 / -5 )

Sex is not the same as gender. Sociology 101.

Biology is based on scientific method, sociology isn’t.

15 ( +24 / -9 )

I guess that the trans parent in question could 'adopt' her child. But, that begs the question of why not simply grant them parenthood in the first place.

As usual, a fossilized legal system riddled with inconsistencies.

3 ( +11 / -8 )

Disgusting anti-trans bigotry … enthralled with the backwards thinking of cults such as the Moonies.

Prove the relationship. You can’t.

1 ( +13 / -12 )

SAME#Today 07:06 am JST

Sex is not assigned at birth and people cannot change sex. Biology 101.

Sex and gender are two different things. And yes, people CAN change their gender. Therefore, this person is female, and the child's mother.

-10 ( +11 / -21 )

Is it still 1922 in Japan?

-9 ( +20 / -29 )

More like 1622!

-16 ( +10 / -26 )

GazmanToday 07:56 am JST

louisferdinandc….the point they were making is that sex is not ‘assigned’ at birth, it’s decided long before birth. Do you think the babies sex is undecided until it takes its first breath of air? It’s not rocket science.

The government acquiesces that gender can be changed, as there is a legal proceeding for that. Therefore this person is a female, and that makes her the child's mother.

The fact is, this child is the son/daughter of this person, and the government's failure to recognize that is based on nothing more than bigotry.

-9 ( +13 / -22 )

The trans woman, who was assigned male gender at birth.

Doctor standing there with a clipboard 'assigning' genders, lol. It's nutty. It's in every cell in your entire body, regardless of how much you would like it to be different

15 ( +21 / -6 )

The trans woman, who was assigned male gender at birth...

Assigned? Nobody is assigned their gender at birth. Why use confusing language.

We all know what a boy or girl is at birth.

16 ( +24 / -8 )

El RataToday 07:57 am JST

I agree with the ruling, glad to see a little bit of sanity in a G7 country.

In what way is it sane to declare the son/daughter of a person NOT their son/daughter, because that person changed their gender, which is perfectly legal?

I mean, did you miss the part where the sperm that created this baby came from this person?

Do you think a child's right to have their parent legally listed as their parent should be removed just because their parent changed their gender?

Do you know how this will effect his child, and do you condone that kind of cruelty to a CHILD?

-2 ( +12 / -14 )

Sex and gender are two different things. 

That's a big NOPE from me and 99% of the people on the planet. Perhaps your mates on Twitter cone up with these fringe ideas and then you you repeat it enough times it becomes fact in your thought circles.

5 ( +18 / -13 )

AnonymousToday 08:25 am JST

Biology is based on scientific method, sociology isn’t.

Sociology is a branch of the sciences, so yes, it is evidence-based and uses the scientifc method.

I would really like see you try that line of argument in a room full of psychologists, anthropologists, sociologists, and the like. :)

-7 ( +12 / -19 )

They went through IVF or IA if I understand.

That's the very key for this case. I think that the current law doesn't sufficiently cover these tech developments.

Was she recognized as a father of the child in the first place ?

As not married, I believe only the mother was recognized as parent.

The biological father can attain parental rights by recognising his child born out of wedlock even though he is not legally married to the child's biological mother. The couple above is on common law marriage.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Do you know how this will effect his child, and do you condone that kind of cruelty to a CHILD?

Child cruelty is one day asking your dad to go to the park to play footy and instead he's off to the nail salon in his fishnet tights to get a bikini waxing.

6 ( +18 / -12 )

Too early for these mental gymnastics...

7 ( +12 / -5 )

Prove the relationship. You can’t.

Sure I can:

The Unification Church’s ideology clearly is racist, homophobic and antisemitic.

https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2018/02/09/anti-lgbt-cult-leader-calls-followers-purchase-assault-rifles

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_assignment

For those of you who talk about biology as if humans were living in caves and eating raw food to act according to nature, I suggest to read the History section of the Wikipedia page on sex assignment.

And yes, it’s not a problem for 99.4% of people, but it’s the same for having red hair and you don’t see courts refusing parental rights because of the color of their hair…

-9 ( +6 / -15 )

Can't have it both ways

13 ( +18 / -5 )

An interesting case. Perhaps there is still some progress in the latest decision at High Court which recognises the parental rights to the first child although the first lower court denied it altogether. Meanwhile, it is common sense that both children sharing the same DNA with their parents shall have the equal legal status, for child's welfare. The couple is aiming to appeal to the Supreme Court.

Japan is not a common law country, and the court verdicts can't necessarily be a precedent. I assume that similar cases are most likely to be brought to the court in the future. It is time for the legislative branch or Diet to act on it.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

If the child is the result of "her" sperm then "she" should be recognized as the "father". As "she" did not provide the egg or give birth she cannot be the "mother". Nothing to stop "her" or "him" or even "them" from being the legal guardian or being loving "parents".

10 ( +16 / -6 )

I always wonder if these sexual abnormal genders consider the children involved in their self centred decision that will effect the children entire life? Why burden these children when the person responable for them has a major daily problem dealing with social issues that 99% of children would not have to endure.

3 ( +15 / -12 )

This is just gratuitously mean.

-3 ( +9 / -12 )

I have a very strong feeling this is only part of the story.

I speculate the new male doesn’t want to be the mother anymore, and the first father isn’t going to give up his role as father. So yeah, we can speculate all kinds of things..

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

okyoJoeToday 08:32 am JST

Doctor standing there with a clipboard 'assigning' genders, lol. It's nutty. It's in every cell in your entire body, regardless of how much you would like it to be different

You are absolutely correct - it's the individual themselves, not doctors, that get to decide their gender, according to what their body and mind are telling them, once they are old enough to understand and old enough to have a preference. Good comment!

-13 ( +10 / -23 )

John-SanToday 09:29 am JST

I always wonder if these sexual abnormal genders consider the children involved in their self centred decision that will effect the children entire life? Why burden these children when the person responable for them has a major daily problem dealing with social issues that 99% of children would not have to endure.

Children easily adjust to change, and of course, young children who grow up with their parents have no preference over their parent's gender identity or their sexual orientation. They simply love them for who they are, as they are. That is something you might want to try.

-3 ( +13 / -16 )

Mr KiplingToday 08:58 am JST

If the child is the result of "her" sperm then "she" should be recognized as the "father". As "she" did not provide the egg or give birth she cannot be the "mother". Nothing to stop "her" or "him" or even "them" from being the legal guardian or being loving "parents".

Correction - this person legally transitioned from male to female, and is now a woman; therefore, she should properly be referred to as the mother.

And this ruling does indeed prevent this mother from being the legal guardian - that is what the court case was all about. Does that fact change you mind at all, or are you okay with a child being denied the right to call their parent, their parent, and a parent being denied the right to call their child, their child?

-8 ( +11 / -19 )

Removing your male reproductive organs doesn't automatically make you female.

This man will never be a female .

Futile to disagree !

9 ( +21 / -12 )

In Japan surgery is allowed

However legally LGBT and LGBTQ aren't officially legally recognized by Japanese law

The article has incorrectly fooled some commenters into believing that LGBTQ and LGBT are legally recognized identity in Japan.

The surgery is legal the identity isn't.

6 ( +12 / -6 )

Imagine if "the best interests of the child " were the determining factors....not the archaic thinking of the decision makers.

3 ( +12 / -9 )

You know what's even worse for a child than being brought up by two parents when one of them is transgender?

A child being raised without two loving parents.

6 ( +13 / -7 )

Of all the ridiculous things of living in Japan, this one takes the cake. The first is they require surgery on sexual organs to recognize gender change? F that. Then they can't recognize this person as a parent post gender change? Ridiculous that breaks the ridiculous scale.

Japan is scary when it comes to legalities and rules, too often.

-2 ( +8 / -10 )

A 2019 global poll by Pew Research indicated that 68 percent of Japan residents agreed that homosexuality should be accepted by society, nearly equaling the 72% recorded in the U.S. And likely the 30% of Japanese that don’t agree that homosexuality should be accepted by society will gradually die off over the next decade.

Yes, but since when has government here cared much about the feelings and needs of that 68%, when the 30% has proved such a reliable, predictable voting block?

2 ( +4 / -2 )

A simple DNA test would prove that she is the mother

Correction - a DNA test would prove that he's the father.

Apparently your not aware that men don't have a womb or gestation period.

Males produce sperm

Females produce eggs and grow babies.

5 ( +14 / -9 )

I know the article is trying to frame it as an LGBTQ..... problem but it isn't.

And before blowing up keep reading.

In Japan if a legally married heterosexual couple uses a surrogate in another country ( surrogacy is not legal in Japan) but their own sperm and ova the child by Japanese law isn't the biological mother's despite it being her ova her DNA she must legally adopted her own child.

A child born to a separated woman that is the biological child of her boyfriend will be registered to her estranged husband despite both men and the woman saying is is the boyfriend's and DNA proving it.

A child born between a non Japanese and Japanese born before marriage or out of wedlock and not recognized by the Japanese parent is not a Japanese citizen even after the Japanese parent decides to recognize the child and prove with DNA the child is theirs.

So the whole system is broken, archaic, stuck in the Edo period, if the LGBTQ.... Community thinks they are some victim of an unfair system targeting them sorry you are not special or especially targeted. It is a far reaching problem that affects way way way more than the LGBTQ community.

This look up Aki Mukai and husband Nobuhiko Takada, she was a famous TV personality and he a famous wrestler, she stored her ova/eggs on discovering she had cancer, after surviving cancer they had a child using a surrogate in the USA despite the child being 100% theirs, the Japanese government refused to recognize her as the mother, refused the child Japanese citizenship, because the father was not married to the surrogate and had only USA citizenship.

After multiple court losses they had to adopt their own child and the child had to apply for naturalized Japanese citizen.

So again this is an endemic problem in the Japanese family law system and not an LGBTQ centric problem.

-3 ( +13 / -16 )

Blame the law, not the court.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

First and foremost, laws should be for citizens' benefit in democracy.

When more and more people want to embrace LGBTQ as part of our society, what's the point of rejecting their appeals by plausible convictions?

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

Taki

LGBTQ and LGBT aren't the same.

And no this man will never be a woman regardless of how many surgeries or whatever countries laws they abide with.

He will always be the childs father because it was his sperm that impregnated the child mother .

Furthermore as the article clearly states that the court it doesn't recognize the identity of the transgender woman.

I suggest reading the article again and re- examining the Japanese laws regarding transgender and the differences between LGBTQ and LGBT.

6 ( +13 / -7 )

Vicky

Today 11:00 am JST

First and foremost, laws should be for citizens' benefit in democracy.

> When more and more people want to embrace LGBTQ as part of our society, what's the point of rejecting their appeals by plausible convictions?

Again despite the title the affect on the LGBTQ...is only an extremely tiny tiny tiny portion of those couples having problems.

The system is broken for far more non LGBTQ.

IVF, non married, separated, surrogacy, children born to non citizens and Japanese nationals that didn't marry or recognize the child prior to birth, etc....

The list is far to long all non LGBTQ.....

So if we cannot expect the government to fix the more common situations, why would the LGBTQ community think theirs will be fixed?

Think about it, a man and woman have a child but not married the child is born after the birth the man admits it is his the DNA proves it and the city/courts rejected it.

That is Japan now, so you think Japan is going to recognize Transgender parents?

-6 ( +9 / -15 )

A child born from the egg of one and the sperm of another makes the egg and sperm carriers the natural parents of the child.

I'm guessing both parents and the child are living together as a family. 

The child has a two guardians.

Now two mothers and no father.

With divorce and remarriage many children end up with four parents.

Many children are in family situations with two gay men or two gay women.

Children more than anything just need to be loved, protected and nurtured.

There are thousands of children without any parents.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

What? The child carries the dna of this person, so they are undeniably one of the biological parents. How can this not be legally recognized, when it's a hard fact? Crazy.

3 ( +9 / -6 )

I know down vote Facts as usual feelings over facts.

Read this:

Japan denies couple registry of surrogate-born sons

https://www.reuters.com/article/idUST166115

Nothing has changed since then.

So again Japan can't even recognize the biological parents of a so-called traditional married couple, how did a transgender expect a different outcome?

My nightmare 20 years ago was my ex-wife living with her boyfriend while divorce proceedings were on going, had she gotten pregnant during that time, Japanese law made the child mine and no amount of DNA proof would change that and that is still the way it is

So LGBTQ community relax calm down, you are far from the biggest part of the problem and I am willing to bet that for every LGBTQ case like this one there are 100 cases of non LGBTQ couples with similar problems.

0 ( +10 / -10 )

Awa no GaijinToday 11:08 am JST

LGBTQ and LGBT aren't the same.

The correct acronym is "LGBTQIA+" so that all genders, and sexual identities are included.

And no this man will never be a woman regardless of how many surgeries or whatever countries laws they abide with.

So you think that the law has no meaning, or that the law doesn't apply to everyone? That is quite curious, since I am quite sure that you would likely be one of the first people to quote the law if that law were to support your personal point of view, e.g., on marriage equality.

He will always be the childs father because it was his sperm that impregnated the child mother .

This person legally changed their gender, so she is a woman, in which case she should be referred to as the mother.

Furthermore as the article clearly states that the court it doesn't recognize the identity of the transgender woman.

"Four years ago she was legally permitted to change her gender on her family register" - actually it clearly says that the law recognizes this person as female.

I suggest reading the article again and re- examining the Japanese laws regarding transgender and the differences between LGBTQ and LGBT.

Respectfully, I don't think you are clear on that yourself.

-11 ( +6 / -17 )

Apparently your not aware that men don't have a womb or gestation period.

Fifst of all, it's "you're" as in "you are"; and second of all, please take your transphobia elsewhere. Preferably off the planet. To a different solar system. One less transphobe on this earth is a step towards equality among all. The woman legally transitioned and is therefore female using she/her pronouns.

Oh and for those who say that a person is either male or female at birth and that it's clear cut, clearly you missed the boat about people born intersex where they may have a combination of male and female reproductive organs. "Assigning" them a determined sex and gender can often be detrimental to their mental and emotional health if they feel that assignment doesn't fit with who they are and how they feel about themselves.

-10 ( +4 / -14 )

Awa no GaijinToday 10:53 am JST

Correction - a DNA test would prove that he's the father.

Apparently your not aware that men don't have a womb or gestation period.

Males produce sperm

Females produce eggs and grow babies.

Correction - the article states that this person legally changed their gender identity, which means she is a woman. As that is the case, she should be referred to as the mother.

-9 ( +9 / -18 )

What is funny to me is that people don't seem to have much interest in womens' rights until the issue of transwomen comes up,

Actually that isn't true or even close to being true.

Most of the world's top feminists were the firsts to oppose transgender being classified as "women" to being in women's sports, etc .

And all were called names, attacked online and in the media for there position.

Google Martina Navratilova and Transgender, see the attacks

In a Newyorker article they labeled all Feminist that oppose transgender as "Radical Feminists" a term usually associated with the conservative right!

So the reality is that the most prominent feminists those most responsible for the advancement of women's rights are for a large part oppesed to much of what the transgender community it trying to do.

Fact over feelings

-3 ( +11 / -14 )

Awa no GaijinToday 10:01 am JST

In Japan surgery is allowed

However legally LGBT and LGBTQ aren't officially legally recognized by Japanese law

The article has incorrectly fooled some commenters into believing that LGBTQ and LGBT are legally recognized identity in Japan.

The surgery is legal the identity isn't.

LGBTQIA+ are not legal identities in the first place, so there is no need to get any kind of government approval to refer to oneself in that way - just like you don't have to get government approval to identify as a man or as heterosexual.

It is legal in Japan both to get sex reassignment surgery AND to change one's gender identity on the family register. So you are incorrect on both counts.

See what I mean when i said you don't seem to understand the law? Yeah. You don't.

-10 ( +6 / -16 )

Awa no GaijinToday 09:51 am JST

Removing your male reproductive organs doesn't automatically make you female.

This man will never be a female .

Futile to disagree !

Actually, you can disagree with someone's gender identity all you want, but there is nothing at all you can do to stop them from identifying that way, referring to themselves in that way, living that way, or legally changing their identity.

I guess that is why you are mad enough to make a dozen posts. It must really be galling to know there is nothing you can do to force your ideas of gender onto other people. That makes me smile. :)

-9 ( +8 / -17 )

Women will not hush. We will not be gaslighted. Men cannot ever be women. I am a lesbian and all lesbian spaces are full of men in dresses. It is not a sexual 'preference' it is a requirement. The death threats of 'take yourself off the planet' are about normal for TRAs. You never hear terfs talk like that. Never. Women is an adult human female. Live as you want. Still not a woman.

3 ( +12 / -9 )

A simple DNA test would prove that she is the mother of the child.

Father.

using sperm preserved before her transition

Sperm = biological male. There is no such thing as a viable human hermaphodite, so that's simply how it is. The court should recognize this person as the biological father.

6 ( +13 / -7 )

Oh and for those who say that a person is either male or female at birth and that it's clear cut, clearly you missed the boat about people born intersex where they may have a combination of male and female reproductive organs.

And this is the other Big Lie that trans activists keep repeating. To tell someone that was born with a serious genetic abnormality like Turner syndrome that they aren't really female, they were merely 'assigned' it is beyond repugnant. You're literally using other people's misfortunes as a pawn in your ideological crusade to re-define reality. Just as someone being born with a missing leg does not negate the statement that humans are biped, neither does someone being born with missing or abnormal sexual organs negate the fact that humans are sexually dimorphic.

2 ( +9 / -7 )

The Japanese court is wrong here if it is denying the person parental rights.

Before jumping to all kinds of assumptions based on three or four paragraphs in English, we should ascertain what the actual issue is and why this has happened. Based on as careful reading of the story as I can manage, I suspect there must be some rule that says the name of a legal woman cannot be written in the "chichi-rui" (=father) entry on a birth certificate. Is that it?

If the situation is as I suspect, my solution would be to allow a woman's name to go down as the "chichi-rui". As Antiquesaving says, this is only one of many many changes that need to be made to birth certificates and the general koseki system. Some problems with the koseki system are much more common than this one and affect literally thousands of people every year.

By the way, I do not support any moves away from gender based words like "chichi-rui" to gender neutral ones like "sperm provider" or "parent number 1", because most fathers like being "fathers" and most mothers like being "mothers". These words have huge cultural connotations and their usage should not be wished away to please tiny minorities.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

what's the diference between a woman, and a trans woman? are they the same thing? if so, why the need for the prefix? if not.... why not use only the prefix? these are things I wonder, so no need for anyone to get upset.....

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Fear and LoathingToday 12:21 pm JST

Women will not hush. We will not be gaslighted.

I'm a woman, too. And I don't notice anyone trying to "shush" you; what I see is antoher woman who is voicing her own disagreement with you. Do other women not have the right to speak? Are you trying to "shush" me by complaining that I am disagreeing with you? See how that works?

Men cannot ever be women.

People can change their gender identity. It is not only possible, it is legal in Japan and other countries around the world, and is well acknowledged in sociology and psychology, as well as general society. Stating your personal opposition is not going to change that fact.

I am a lesbian and all lesbian spaces are full of men in dresses.

I'm a bisexual woman who regularly goes to lesbian spaces and I know for a fact that this is not true.

It is not a sexual 'preference' it is a requirement. T

Sex, gender, and sexual orientation are all different.

The death threats of 'take yourself off the planet' are about normal for TRAs. You never hear terfs talk like that. Never.

I have no idea what a "TRA" is, but it is a fact that it is transpeople, not cisgender people, who are regularly murdred and threathed with violence simply for existing.

Women is an adult human female. Live as you want. Still not a woman.

Out of curiosity, when you face homophobia as a lesbian, does it upset you? And would it make things better or worse if someone said, "You can live as you want" but went on to state that they do not think you really love your female partner, state that you shouldn't be allowed to marry your female partner, or make other derogatory statements about lesbians?

If it does upset you when it's done to you, then why do you do the same thing to transpeople?

-4 ( +11 / -15 )

girl_in_tokyo

Today 12:19 pm JST

I am not gay, but because of many factors, I have been involved and have many friends in the gay and lesbian community both back home and in Tokyo.

Surprisingly more Gay and lesbian close friends than heterosexual close friends.

The thing I hear the most lately is that most are tier of the problems the transgender, etc.. groups are causing.

The thing most do not say is gay men consider themselves men and lesbians consider themselves women in the same way heterosexual men and women see themselves.

Few see transgender as actually being women or men.

A lesbian friend was beyond angry to find out after a month the "woman" she met online and started seeing was actually Transgender, the person didn't say it upfront and the community opposes any suggestions that transgender should or need to disclose this fact

We are going to see a split the Gay and lesbian are going to sooner or later form their own organization leaving the rest .

1 ( +11 / -10 )

If they really 'became a woman', the child has no father...

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

AntiquesavingToday 12:13 pm JST

Actually that isn't true or even close to being true.

Of course it's true. People only started voicing opinions on womens' sports when transwomen wanted to play sports. The same is true for all other womens' rights issues as well. Again, prove you care by speaking up for women or by donating time or money - only then will I believe your motivation in womens' rights and not in bigotry towards transgender people.

Most of the world's top feminists were the firsts to oppose transgender being classified as "women" to being in women's sports, etc .

I doubt you even know who "the world's top feminists" even are. For one thing, "world's top feminists" is not a thing, since there is no such hierarchy. For another, there are plenty of feminists who are not TERFs, including me.

And all were called names, attacked online and in the media for there position.

Let's be clear on this. You attack and deride transgender women, and when they respond to defend themselves, you cry foul. No - it doesn't work like that.

-6 ( +10 / -16 )

If they really 'became a woman', the child has no father...

Many children grow up without fathers. Does it matter as long as they’re loved and raised properly.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

Many children grow up without fathers. Does it matter as long as they’re loved and raised properly.

Considering we evolved to be raised by two sexually dimorphic parents over the course of millions of years? Yes, it probably does matter. The data on children raised without a father figure is a devastating repudiation of this belief that it doesn't matter.

6 ( +11 / -5 )

AntiquesavingToday 12:36 pm JST

I am not gay, but because of many factors, I have been involved and have many friends in the gay and lesbian community both back home and in Tokyo. Surprisingly more Gay and lesbian close friends than heterosexual close friends.

Same here, so what? Do you think this gives your opinions more cred or something?

The thing I hear the most lately i

s that most are tier of the problems the transgender, etc.. groups are causing.

What makes you think I don't know that there is anti-trans bigotry in the gay community?

A lesbian friend was beyond angry to find out after a month the "woman" she met online and started seeing was actually Transgender, the person didn't say it upfront and the community opposes any suggestions that transgender should or need to disclose this fact

I actually agree with you that this is an issue that needs to be addressed. There is a radical section of the trans community that puts forward this notion, and I personally think it is wrong-headed, and pressing the issue in the way that is being done by some people is only harming the trans community.

We are going to see a split the Gay and lesbian are going to sooner or later form their own organization leaving the rest .

Sadly, this is already happening.

I fully support the rights of transpeople and condemn bigotry against them. However, I will say that there are times when the world "bigotry" is misused - as in the case you cited - and that is only going to harm the trans community in the long run and cost them support. I find that very sad, because the majority of transgender peopel are not like that.

-10 ( +7 / -17 )

CaptDingleheimer

Today 12:29 pm JST

:ifst of all, it's "you're" as in "you are"; and second of all, please take your transphobia elsewhere.

> Says the guy who can't write 'first'.

> And if the most pressing issue (you said it's "first" after all) is being a smart@$ and correcting someone's type-o, more pressing than sticking up for transgender people, you aren't very committed to the cause.

If you are going to attack someone for their grammar or a mistyped word you should first learn the difference between guy and girl.

She clearly wrote

I am a lesbian

But you were to busy trying to make points on the person's writing skills.

Now I am not commenting on the content of either of you.

But you clearly need a lesson in what is acceptable and not acceptable.

I am not a native English speaker, many here aren't, I have severe dyslexia and others here I know also have similar problems.

But inevitably someone like you will come along and to somehow make a point or to just attack someone because you have nothing better you will attack their writing, not what they wrote but their writing skills as if that makes you better, what it does make you is condescending.

1 ( +12 / -11 )

girl_in_tokyo

Today 12:48 pm JST

Sadly I have to say this but having met a good number of transgender, I have found that not one was even close to likable.

You wrote

There is a radical section of the trans community....

Well then I have only ever met the radical section.

No sorry as much as they want, a trans woman or a trans man will never be a real woman or a real man. This is just logic, facts.

So I have severe dyslexia so if tomorrow I "declare" myself no longer dyslexic does that mean I am not dyslexic anymore?

No the biological problem causing my dyslexia is still there, I am still dyslexic no matter how much I protest or say I'm not!

But the transgender community wants us to believe that by declaring they are women or men suddenly the biological facts no longer are important.

This is logic, the paraplegic is not going to suddenly walk because he or she declares themselves no longer paraplegic.

So if every other biological fact cannot be erased by just declaring it how is gender and sex any different.

2 ( +11 / -9 )

@Fear and Loathing

Standing with you! Let's keep protecting women and women's rights

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Girl in Tokyo, Yeah just flip it off to "Children easily adjust". Will the Children easily adjust to online bullying ? easily adjust to undue alienation due to society overview of their parents? Easily adjust to getting undue attention from this court case and article from School mates. You consider the social outcomes for the children involved

4 ( +10 / -6 )

A person can identify as whatever or whoever they want. Most people will agree on this. However, the problem comes when such people expect the rest of the world to actively participate in their fantasy. You can staple ears on your head and a tail on your butt, but that doesn't make you a cat. Perhaps I will humor you and give you some cream in a dish, but no more.

Those who truly suffer from gender dysphoria or extremely rare medical conditions that blur the lines between the sexes deserve sympathy, care, and support. That goes without saying. But the concept of "affirming" people in their delusions is dangerous and potentially deadly. The long term effects are completely unknown.

Saw a great interview with Germain Greer about this some years back on the BBC. She said it better than I ever could;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7B8Q6D4a6TM

2 ( +10 / -8 )

what's the diference between a woman, and a trans woman? 

A woman is female. A trans woman is a male with a problem.

The trans woman, who was assigned male gender at birth,….

This is patently incorrect. This person was not ‘assigned’ any gender; he was born with a fully functioning set of male genitalia which he used in the normal male way to produce sperm that resulted in a normal pregnancy in his partner.

There are a very small number of babies born with defective or ambiguous sexual characteristics, and it is possible that some percentage of these are assigned the opposite gender to what later becomes apparent is the correct gender. But these cases are very rare, far less common that one might imagine from the ‘trans’ trend now wreaking havoc with people’s lives.

It doesn't matter if she or he is trans or not, if a person has children, no matter sexuality, children will always theirs...

Yes. And this person is the child’s biological father, regardless of what he did to his genitals after producing the sperm that fertilized the mother’s egg.

5 ( +13 / -8 )

AntiquesavingToday 01:04 pm JST

Sadly I have to say this but having met a good number of transgender, I have found that not one was even close to likable.

I can't imagine why you would feel the need for such a statement. I have met a good number of people, and there were only a few of them that I really liked and felt I wanted to be close to. Most people are annoying or obnoxious or loud or rude. Why you think you could expect something different from the tans community, I have no idea.

Well then I have only ever met the radical section.

Maybe you have, and maybe it has warped your view of the community as a whole. Honestly now .. can you honestly say you know well the opinions of all the people you have met, and understand the nuances of their views? Or did you just meet these people a few times and did some small talk, without really getting to know them, and then decided they were all radicals and completley unreasonable and had no nuance in their views?

People here keep accusing me of hating men just because I attack misogyny in the posts I read here. Just from that, they think they KNOW me. They don't. People are not that easy to understand.

No sorry as much as they want, a trans woman or a trans man will never be a real woman or a real man. This is just logic, facts.

That statement is unnecessary. We all know that gender identity and sex are not the same thing. So it's fine if you want to make these statements about sex - one cannot change one's organs. But as for gender identity, it is another thing altogether, and there is no reason to say that transgenderism is not a real thing. Clearly it IS a real thing - as such, you have to deal with it, and the only choice is to be cruel about it, or be kind - so which do you chose?

So I have severe dyslexia so if tomorrow I "declare" myself no longer dyslexic does that mean I am not dyslexic anymore?

Heh. I'm dyslexic too, which is why I type so slowly and misspell things so often. :)

But this is apples and oranges - there is science behind transgenderism. And frankly, if you want to dispute that science, you'd better have a PhD up your sleeve and start doing research and writing articles that prove the current understanding wrong - otherwise your opinion has zero credibility.

-6 ( +6 / -12 )

John-San

Today 01:12 pm JST

Girl in Tokyo, Yeah just flip it off to "Children easily adjust". Will the Children easily adjust to online bullying ? easily adjust to undue alienation due to society overview of their parents? Easily adjust to getting undue attention from this court case and article from School mates. You consider the social outcomes for the children involved

I have to agree.

I have heard the " children easily adjust" many times, and I often find that it is people without children or that have poor relationships with their children that say that.

Children don't easily adjust, I raised 2 ethnically mixed children as a single Gaijin father in Japan.

No it takes a lot and a lot of caring to keep dealing with the constant barrage just being mixed and in divorce, and the load on the children is not something they just "adjust" to.

Has anyone ever wondered why the juvenile suicide rate in Japan, North America and Europe keeps rising?

4 ( +11 / -7 )

J Culture righty or wrongly, laws related to was is considered to a the accepted norms of human relationships, May I suggest, the somewhat claustrophobic insistence of LGBTQ rights take precedence over every aspect of societies reluctance to question, at the threat of ostracization and bigotry.

I would have a objection if a anything other than old fashion girl women, entered my favourite Japanese onsen, especially if my nieces were present, or the female changing room facilities.

As a society we are at a cross roads, it is indeed cruel that parenthood and law has collided so dramatically.

It is over simplifying a countries social belief insisting conformity without question.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Antiquesaving

I am not gay, but because of many factors

Sadly I have to say this but having met a good number of transgender, I have found that not one was even close to likable.

No sorry as much as they want, a trans woman or a trans man will never be a real woman or a real man. This is just logic, facts.

So I have severe dyslexia so if tomorrow I "declare" myself no longer dyslexic does that mean I am not dyslexic anymore?

There is no real connection between dyslexia and being a transgender

Birth sex and gender can be different.

Four years ago she was legally permitted to change her gender on her family register

Legal parent to one child but not the other.

What is the sex of a hermaphrodite?

What about intersex people?

Joe Holliday lived 25 years of his life before he found out his true gender. Holliday was born in 1988 with a severe birth defect called Cloacal Exstrophy, which causes the bladder and a portion of the intestines to become exposed outside of the abdomen.

But after taking a series of tests, Joe has finally been told he is male. And it's changed his life.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/08/13/joe-holliday-reveals-gender-after-25-years_n_7981498.html

People have very different births and life experiences that do not always fit into two little neat boxes.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

John-SanToday 01:12 pm JST

Girl in Tokyo, Yeah just flip it off to "Children easily adjust". Will the Children easily adjust to online bullying ? easily adjust to undue alienation due to society overview of their parents? Easily adjust to getting undue attention from this court case and article from School mates. You consider the social outcomes for the children involved

Let me get this straight.

You make derogatory statements about transpeople; you attempt to invalidate their identities; you make statements to the effect that you would prefer they stay closeted, or not even exist; you state opposition to things like gender reassigment, trans rights to marry and have children; and finally, you either condone trans bigotry or outright make bigoted statements yourself.

Add then you act all shocked that other kids bully kids who have transgender parents.

People create a climate of hate towards LGBTQIA, and then try to use the very climate of hate they created as a reason that LGBTIA should not be allowed to have children.

Do you not see the unreasonableness inherent here?

The real solution is to stop transgender bigotry.

-6 ( +6 / -12 )

Heh. I'm dyslexic too, which is why I type so slowly and misspell things so often. :)

> But this is apples and oranges - there is science behind transgenderism. And frankly, if you want to dispute that science, you'd better have a PhD up your sleeve and start doing research and writing articles that prove the current understanding wrong - otherwise your

No it isn't apples and oranges it is simple science, simple Facts.

I don't need a PhD to know that the human race wouldn't be here if the world was populated with transgenders from the start.

We developed from a duality, a family unit, then community units, the history, the biology, the facts do not support the narrative of "choosing" gender.

Here is the best way of showing the fault in thinking.

The word "heterosexual" the trans community hates it to the point of creating "cisgender" this is the way to box the Majority of the human population in a category because the simple fact that heterosexual describes 90% plus of the world is objectionable to the now LGBTQ radicalized community.

And again not one of my gay or lesbian friend has ever used "Cis" or "cisgender" but every transgender I know or met used near instantly and often.

2 ( +8 / -6 )

AntiquesavingToday 01:19 pm JST

I have to agree.

I have heard the " children easily adjust" many times, and I often find that it is people without children or that have poor relationships with their children that say that.

Child psychologists say it.

Children don't easily adjust, I raised 2 ethnically mixed children as a single Gaijin father in Japan.

And do your children love you less because their mother is Japanese? Or were you less able to raise your children because their mother was Japanese? And would you then say that non-Japanese and Japanese couples it should not be allowed to have children?

Children are bullied by other children because of bigotry. No bigotry = no bullying.

Has anyone ever wondered why the juvenile suicide rate in Japan, North America and Europe keeps rising?

Good question. Has anyone done a study on whether rates of suicide among the children of LGBTQIA are lower in countries where LGBTQIA acceptance is high?

-7 ( +7 / -14 )

wallace

Today 01:26 pm JST

Again your not on topic or missed the point, go google some more and point out the obvious again.

Man penis, woman vagina.

No penis not a man.

No vagina, not a woman.

This false flag of the new definition of gender is just that false.

3 ( +11 / -8 )

SAME#Today 01:11 pm JST

@Fear and Loathing

Standing with you! Let's keep protecting women and women's rights

Wow, thank you so much! Which womens' shelters will you be donating to, which womens' sports teams will you be supporting, and will you be donating to Planned Parenthood (or another organization that promotes womens' health) and voting liberal in the next election, wherever you are from? Also, when there are misogynistic comments here from men who blame women for their own rapes, will you be speaking up alongside me?

Or are you only interested in womens' rights when it suits your personal agenda against transwomen? Hmm......

-7 ( +6 / -13 )

The "T" has no business with the LGB. T is not a sexuality. You can keep on deleting me, but the misogyny of the TRA agenda has destroyed women's spaces, rights and provisions, and decimated the lesbian community. There is not one lesbian bar or group left which has not been infiltrated. Get the L out.

0 ( +9 / -9 )

Child psychologists say it.

Know a lot of child psychologists and psychiatrists.

As a ADHD dyslexia ASD child is was sent to dozens literally dozens.

Most had more metal issues than their parents.

90% of treatments used or children have in the end proven ineffective or harmful.

So if they say it , then your can bet money they are wrong.

-1 ( +6 / -7 )

Children are bullied by other children because of bigotry. No bigotry = no bullying.

What fantasy world do you live in?

Children get bullied because of ever6and anything,

A girl like a boy the other girls don't like it so they bully her,

A boy can't play ball well so they bully him, you get bullied for having glasses, a child losses his or her front teeth, the get bullied made fun of until the new teeth grow in.

I often wonder what cloistered community some people were raised in.

4 ( +11 / -7 )

AntiquesavingToday 01:42 pm JST

Know a lot of child psychologists and psychiatrists.

As a ADHD dyslexia ASD child is was sent to dozens literally dozens.

Most had more metal issues than their parents.

90% of treatments used or children have in the end proven ineffective or harmful.

So if they say it , then your can bet money they are wrong.

Let me get this straight. By your logic, a person can say they "know" psychology if they have met a lot of psychologists, or have been a patient.

Also, if someone has received treatment that didn't help them in one feild of psychology they can unilaterally say that no treatments in any feild of psychology work, and all psychologists are wrong.

Because that is what is sounds like you are saying.

-3 ( +7 / -10 )

itsonlyrocknroll: I have very deep respect for onsen etiquette, women and wives say in their section and Men will stay in their section. So This person whom the article is about wins, And this person enters the onsen with their Partner. I strongly object because of first rule is never make a other user fell uncomfortable EG, having tattoos, By not washing, by allowing your children to be loud and rowdy, by allowing your wive to enter with you. All neem very bad behaviour by onsen users So when this couple enter the onsen I will be the first to have them kick out for breaking the first rule. They might be to biology male but they are still partners and this is the reason I want them kick out. Never being your partner into a onsen. So the two young girls are in the women section as to get drag out because of their parents have been kick out because of bad behaviour. The Girls will easily adjust and get on with loving their parent for who they are. Yeah Nah, Nah.

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

Fear and LoathingToday 01:40 pm JST

The "T" has no business with the LGB. T is not a sexuality.

It's LGBTQIA+, and that acronym includes all sexual minorities which includes transgender people

You can keep on deleting me,

No one has "deleted" you; you are posting loud and clear.

but the misogyny of the TRA agenda has destroyed women's spaces, rights and provisions, and decimated the lesbian community.

Last I looked, lesbians still exist. Unless that has changed since I last went to 2cho, which was last weekend.

There is not one lesbian bar or group left which has not been infiltrated. Get the L out.

Oh, "infiltrated"! Like spies! Wow, that's so dramatic, so exciting!

Honestly, the way you speak makes me think you are acting in a drama of your own making.

-7 ( +6 / -13 )

girl_in_tokyo

Today 01:48 pm JST

Psychology and psychiatry are not scientists.

It is that simple they are not a science to be exact 90% of everything that those two have ever done has been proven wrong has caused more damage than good.

Look at all the supposed therapies that have been used just over the last five or six decades again 90% were wrong and most ended up causing more damage than good.

They are guesswork at best quackery in general.

You do realize that many of these so-called psychologists and psychiatrist also back conversion therapy how do you feel about that one?

Behavioral modification that's just another word for conversion therapy!

So if you believe in that community then you have to believe in the possibility of behavioral modification AKA conversion therapy.

Note I don't believe in conversion therapy I don't believe I would ever convert to being gay and I don't believe any of my gay friends will ever convert to being heterosexual.

But if you believe in the psychological community and behavioral modification then by extension you believe in conversion therapy because it's the same thing.

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

Readers, once again we ask you not to be obsessed with a topic and bicker. If you have already posted on this story, then please do not post any more comments.

Correct decision, 100%

1 ( +8 / -7 )

Unfortunately don't see them winning the case. There's likely reasonable grounds to not allow sperm donors to claim custody of the child.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

A person has lost the right to call herself the parent of her child, and it prompts lots of people to just spout hatred. This never fails to make me sad.

Even if you wrongly conflate sex and gender, or if you think gender can't change (which makes you wrong as well), another person simply existing doesn't affect you.

The existence of gender dysphoria and the validity of transgenders' people concern about their gender identity is supported by over a century of scientific research.

I don't need a PhD to know that the human race wouldn't be here if the world was populated with transgenders from the start.

This is an amazing take I often see by people who have issues with any of the LGBTQ+ people simply existing. It's fascinating how it's not only dehumanizing towards the people you target ("you can't reproduce=you don't/shouldn't exist") but also towards those you don't. Does a person's life have less value if they don't, can't or choose not to have children, even if they're heterosexual?

The "duality" of man and woman is one of many ways society has been organized throughout history outside of capitalist nation states. There's no basis for claiming that it's the only way societies have been built. If anything, there is evidence suggesting that LGBTQ+ people contribute to society as individuals in their own right.

Societies throughout history and around the globe have found different ways of treating who are not cis-gender and heterosexual. Rejection seems to be the least reasonable and humane way to do that.

-3 ( +7 / -10 )

The trans woman, who was assigned male gender at birth, had two daughters with her female partner using sperm preserved before her transition, public broadcaster NHK and Kyodo news agency reported.

The gender is not "assigned", it is observed. Yes, there are people with gender dysmorphia, and they should treated with respect, but please stop using this activist language mutilation. The XX and XY DNA is an observable fact, not something to be "assigned" and "changed". It is sad seeing this Western wokiism creeping into Japanese media.

4 ( +12 / -8 )

@ILLYad

« Considering we evolved to be raised by two sexually dimorphic parents over the course of millions of years? Yes, it probably does matter. The data on children raised without a father figure is a devastating repudiation of this belief that it doesn't matter. »

You have the right to prefer the image of a father and a mother you probably grew up with, but I can assure you that it represents a very small, recent and heavily religiously distinct form of family in the history of humanity. Most social organizations in most times and places in the world, including today, have complex kinship and pedagogical relationships in which the role of the biological parents is only a part - if at all - of how children are raised. The fact you do not know the existence of anything else than 1950s inspired American families does not stop history and contemporary society to be much more diverse.

-11 ( +3 / -14 )

respect other people’s life choices; all human beings must be treated with that same respect; live and let live; (but(!) one thing I’m not is blind).

..

he should be recognized as parent of the second child; ( (same person;) and all the surgeries and paperwork in the world can’t change that).

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

It's LGBTQIA+, and that acronym includes all sexual minorities which includes transgender people

Isn't it unfair and patriarchal that some groups get their own letter included in the acronym while others just get lumped into a "+" at the end.

Why not just say L+

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

Thank god for the measure of sanity shown by the courts on this ruling.

1 ( +9 / -8 )

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