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Japan eyes shipping Patriot missiles to U.S. upon easing export rules

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This article failed to state why the US would need to import US-licensed surface-to-air Patriot missiles?

Is the US in need of defending itself from an air attack?

Or has the US depleted all of its stockpile of Patriot missiles by giving them to Ukraine and Israel... and now the US will buy more from Japan so they can also give these to Ukraine and Israel.

Congrats Japan, you are now supplying weapons to wars.

Its more than ironic that the provision in the Japanese constitution banning such exports was written at the behest of the US.

3 ( +9 / -6 )

So Japanese Article 9 is just a joke?

-3 ( +5 / -8 )

Calm down.

Surface to Air missiles(SAM) armed within their own borders are used for defense.

Especially large extensive system like the Patriot missiles are not designed for the operators to pickup and move at a moment's notice.

Weather it be stationed in Ukraine or Israel, they are for defensive purposes.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

So Japanese Article 9 is just a joke?

That depends. What exactly does the Constitution's Article 9 say about weapons exports?

1 ( +3 / -2 )

StefanToday  08:58 am JST

So Japanese Article 9 is just a joke?

I think it was dead in 1954 when the self defense forces were established. It had a good 7 years of life.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

divindaToday  07:57 am JST

Its more than ironic that the provision in the Japanese constitution banning such exports was written at the behest of the US.

That is not at all for certain.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Article 9 states nothing about exporting weapons.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

@divinda

This article failed to state why the US would need to import US-licensed surface-to-air Patriot missiles?

While the US would love to just buy Japan-assembled Patriot missiles and ship them to Ukraine, at least the US is trying to backfill its minimum inventory so that it can give its inventory to Ukraine.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Israel has a better air defense system than Patriot. They balked at the costs and decided to build their own.

This article provides a way for Japan to help Ukraine, without directly helping Ukraine. Seems like a win-win. Patriot is defensive, not offensive.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Next thing you know Japan will be shipping Patriot Missiles to Palau. https://www.reuters.com/world/us-missile-defense-proposal-stirs-debate-palau-2023-12-20/

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

See: Integrated defense or if you want to get all historical and mystical, see: Sunzi's Art (Methods) of War.

Patriot is defensive, not offensive.

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

Or has the US depleted all of its stockpile of Patriot missiles by giving them to Ukraine and Israel... and now the US will buy more from Japan so they can also give these to Ukraine and Israel.

Aside from expenditures in Ukraine, the Saudis and US forces in Saudi and UAE have shot hundreds of Patriots defending against Houthi attacks.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Israel has a better air defense system than Patriot. They balked at the costs and decided to build their own.

What on Earth are you talking about? Israel is a major Patriot user.

Israel and the US in joint programs with Raytheon have built additional air defense and ballistic missile defense systems specific to Israel's regional needs. Israel doesn't have THAAD with its great range and exoatmosphereic intercept capability. Their systems are shorter range and tailored to the local threat. Note that Raytheon is a prime contractor on most of their systems and makes major components for them in the US. The US very much has that same tech but US requirements are very different from those of Israel. Israel has nothing even remotely close to the performance of SM-3 or SM-6 and especially SM-3 Block 2.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Is the US in need of defending itself from an air attack?

Guam and Hawaii are most definitely in need of more air defenses. In the next 48 months you are going to see a huge program to defend Guam that will include PAC-3 MSE, THAAD and truck mounted SM-3 and SM-6 along with a truck mounted AN-SPY6 system being called AN-TPY6 that is in testing now. Something like Aegis Ashore was first considered then dropped as being too vulnerable, so the equivalent radars and missiles are being put on trucks so they can be salted around Guam and Hawaii, making them harder to hit.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

America buying Japanese weapons just makes money for Japan. I am sure the US taxpayers will balk at continually sending money to Japan for weapons. Blah blah blah. Now this weapons trade is on the other foot, how is it when Japan is the one making money? The US spending its cash on Japanese missiles is just the tip of the iceberg. Japan is about to get rich, and will have enough for public spending to help its people, or just the businesses and politicians.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

If Japan not only unilaterally buys weapons from the United States, but also if the United States trusts them and buys them because they are made in Japan even if they are produced under license by the United States, it can be said to be a win-win for both Japan and the United States.

Japan's arms embargo policy is simply the direction of the government at the time, and is not constrained by the Constitution. The same applies to nuclear development and nuclear armaments.

The Patriot plays an important role in Israel's Iron Dome, and I would like to welcome it as a way to earn foreign currency by opening the door for it to be sold to other countries as a defensive weapon.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Dome

The initial funding and development of the Iron Dome system was provided and undertaken by Israel.[ By late October 2014, the Iron Dome systems had intercepted over 1,200 rockets. No material upgrades would be needed to optimize the system for drone-killing missions. Additionally, Iron Dome interceptors are 95% cheaper than Patriot interceptors.

At the 2014 Singapore Air Show, Rafael unveiled its Iron Beam laser air-defense system. Iron Beam is a directed-energy weapon made to complement the Iron Dome system by using a high-energy laser to destroy rockets, mortar bombs, and other airborne threats with each laser shot costing less than $1

https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-shoots-down-targets-in-test-of-patriot-iron-dome-air-defense-systems/ says:

The Patriot air defense system is meant to intercept both incoming aircraft and long-range ballistic missiles, while the Iron Dome is designed to shoot down short-range rocket and mortar attacks, as well as some aircraft.

Today, interception of smaller UAVs, rockets and mortars are what Israel needs, not ICBMs or MRBMs. Of course, it is a matter of time for Iran to use some of their MRBMs targeted at Israel , approx 1600kms away.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

I saw no less than half a dozen Batteries of these on just ONE side of the airfield at Al Udeid AB, Qatar.

I was told if you’re anywhere near one of these when it goes off, you’ll be deaf.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The initial funding and development of the Iron Dome system was provided and undertaken by Israel.[ By late October 2014, the Iron Dome systems had intercepted over 1,200 rockets. No material upgrades would be needed to optimize the system for drone-killing missions. Additionally, Iron Dome interceptors are 95% cheaper than Patriot interceptors.

You have to understand how Iron Dome works and its limitations. The target set for Iron Dome are purely ballistic short range rockets that have speeds around Mach 1. The Iron Dome radars and fire control system tracks the target and predicts its flight path based on the weapon having no ability to maneuver. The Iron Dome interceptors are programmed to fly out to a specific point in space calculated to coincide with the incoming enemy rocket, and explode. The interceptors have no guidance on board which is why they are cheap. The success of an intercept relies entirely on the fire control calculating the correct trajectory for the interceptor and determining when to detonate the warhead. The missiles can only do what they are programmed to do before launch. If the target maneuvers at all Iron Dome will miss it.

Iron Dome is not designed to engage targets flying much faster than Mach 1, cannot engage anything that can maneuver or flying at high altitude. On occasion it might engage a low flying helicopter or drone as long as it doesn't maneuver or employ countermeasures. It is a very limited system for a very specific target set. The US Army has tested it because Congress told them to but the systems were never fielded in an operational unit. The Army needs something with a lot greater speed, range and the ability to intercept maneuvering targets, which is Patriot PAC-3 Missile Segment Enhancement or MSE.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

America buying Japanese weapons just makes money for Japan. I am sure the US taxpayers will balk at continually sending money to Japan for weapons.

The dirty little secret nobody wants to say out loud is that Japanese manufacturers will produce them for less than Raytheon, excuse me RTX now, charges for the same item. I doubt there will be much opposition in Congress because Raytheon, now called RTX, can't build missiles fast enough to meet current US and international demand. Before the Russo-Ukraine war there were articles in the defense press saying Raytheon was strugging to replace Patriot expenditures by the Saudis and worries the Saudis would buy Korean systems if Raytheon couldn't ramp up production.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

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