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Japanese fleet catches 177 whales in latest hunt

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No conclusion to "scientific research", and falling demand.

Isn't this a case of we don't like to be told what to do, we don't need a lecture, etc. etc.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Do you mean that if commercial whaling is allowed the whalers will catch more whales than the know they can sell, driving supply well above demand, causing the price to drop

Haha! That's already the current situation! The whale meat market is already oversupplied, that's why it piles up in freezers and they can't even auction it off and have to force feed it to schoolkids.

whalers want to increase supply

Ridiculous and unsubstantiated claim.

What!? The whole reason for Newrep's 'Scientific Research' is to return to commercial whaling. Do you think they intend to catch less whales? The whales they catch now they can't sell, but who cares eh, they don't operate in a market where profits matter much to them.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Ridiculous logic.

Really? Do you mean that if commercial whaling is allowed the whalers will catch more whales than the know they can sell, driving supply well above demand, causing the price to drop, eliminating their profit and causing their business to fail? That would be "ridiculous logic", believing that they would knowingly destroy their business.

whalers want to increase supply

Ridiculous and unsubstantiated claim. They know there isn't an increased or unmet demand, so increasing supply would be cutting their own throats. To claim that they want to destroy their livelihood is inane.

For research they should check mercury, cesium and strontium

I know there have been a number of studies that have measured mercury. I don't know of any that have looked at caesium or strontium but it may have been done for Northern Hemisphere caught whales.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

For research they should check mercury, cesium and strontium

1 ( +4 / -3 )

If there isn't a demand for whale people won't produce it hoping that someday people will change their minds, or if they do they will quickly go bankrupt and either way the industry will fade away.

Ridiculous logic. The sheer madness, destructive pride and greed of humans. Despite falling demand and rock-bottom prices, whalers want to increase supply. And we aren't talking about 'napped flint' here, whatever that is. We are talking about endangered animals.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

What a waste of tax money (for a country that is over 250% in debt to GDP) !

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Where?

In a lot of different places. The ICR website has a list of the papers with the journal they were published in.

with penalty for violation being equivalent to whaling for profit not science.

And do you know what the penalty is for whaling for profit not science? Nothing. The IWC has no penalties associated with violations of its regulations. They are a voluntary organization. Japan could quit today and start hunting thousands of whales a year commercially without breaking a single law or facing a single statutory penalty.

Then why do nobody eats it ?

You don't have to participate in an activity or use its product to support it. I don't drink or smoke but I am against smoking bans and prohibition.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Commercial whaling has been supported by 95% of the world population.

Then why do nobody eats it ? It is being sold after all !

Endangered species concept is a hoax.

Tell that to all the species mankind already hunted to extinction.

By discouraging people from hunting whales and dolphins, we are slowly destroying our environment by upsetting the balance of nature and our ecosystem. 

What the hell are you even talking about ? Any study to back up your claim ?

0 ( +5 / -5 )

Just ammend the ICW loophole/law that products of whale research must be destroyed, with the evidence being audited by volunteers from the anti-whaling camps, with penalty for violation being equivalent to whaling for profit not science. That should put an end to the "whale as food" customers in a non-violent way.

Or if you like violent ways, let's lobby to make it legal for anti-whaling groups to attack whaling boats at sea, similar to the permissions navies have to defend ships against pirates. That should make whaling disappear.

-4 ( +5 / -9 )

It has been published. And reading the published research would reveal the conclusions.

Where?

-2 ( +6 / -8 )

Sec... checking: do you believe that it is ACTUALLY for scientific research?

Yes. They collect data, they publish peer reviewed papers and the IWC Scientific Committee thanks them for the data that they say helps them with their own research.

In fact the moratorium requires that the status of whale species be reviewed. Obviously this review requires data. Not only is Japan's ICR one of the few major collectors of data, but the IWC has yet to do a single required review despite over 30 years and the plain language of the moratorium requiring the first review by 1990.

But this scientific research has been going on for a long time, and nobody seems to know what the conclusion is. In fact, I sometimes wonder if any scientific research is even going at all.

> While I realise that Japan (in my experience) does not have a very transparent system, surely after all this time the results of this research should be published.

It has been published. And reading the published research would reveal the conclusions. Also research into the long term status of a species never really concludes, it is ongoing. But your view seems to align with the IWC who refuses to look at the data collected and do their required job under their own moratorium of coming to a conclusion on species status.

2 ( +8 / -6 )

It's not for me to tell people what to eat and what not to eat.

But this scientific research has been going on for a long time, and nobody seems to know what the conclusion is. In fact, I sometimes wonder if any scientific research is even going at all.

While I realise that Japan (in my experience) does not have a very transparent system, surely after all this time the results of this research should be published.

I would agree with some of the above comments, the hard working people's in Japan have a right to know how their taxes are spent.

I don't suppose Japan has a Freedom of Information legislation like many advanced countries have. But I stand corrected if wrong.

-1 ( +7 / -8 )

@Do the hustle-

So today you are making baseless accusations because that is all you have? If 'Everything in my post is completely deniable' then why no reasoned denial?

The only thing that needs to be done by lethal research is examining stomach contents. However, this can be concluded with a handful of whales, not a few hundred.

No. A whales age is determined by ear plugs - requires lethal research. Toxin levels in organs - requires lethal research. Also it takes much more than a handful of samples. A simple computer search about statistical sampling will bring up equations that have been proven and used for well over a century to determine required sample size, and it is a few hundred. And that few hundred has to be repeated over the course of years.

to the hundreds of nations who gave up whaling for conservation purposes

There were never hundreds of nations conducting whaling. Heck there are barely 200 nations on the whole planet and the IWC has never had even 100 of them as members. The number probably never exceeded 20 and most of them whaled for oil not meat and they gave it up because of economics when other sources of oil became cheaper.

Whalers even shamefully took $30 million from the fund created to rebuild coastal areas in Tohoku.

You mean an industry partially based in coastal areas of Tohoku applied for and recieved money from a fund designed to rebuild industries? That is what the fund was for.

Resuming commercial hunting will lead to several things... This is basic supply and demand economics.

No, basic economics and supply and demand says if there isn't a demand no one will bother creating a supply and the industry will die. Except for maybe a few niches you don't see anybody supplying napped flint. In the distant past it was a highly desired commodity with a large demand, but the economics changed and people stopped producing it. If there isn't a demand for whale people won't produce it hoping that someday people will change their minds, or if they do they will quickly go bankrupt and either way the industry will fade away.

1 ( +8 / -7 )

The research effort must be drastically expanded to 10 fold at least. While I visited Osaka last time to see my relatives, I have had a hard time to find a good whale meat dinner. Commercial whaling has been supported by 95% of the world population. Endangered species concept is a hoax. Its only purpose is to deprive common people like us to have a good meal. By discouraging people from hunting whales and dolphins, we are slowly destroying our environment by upsetting the balance of nature and our ecosystem. Support commercial whaling is one way to stop this nonsense.

-1 ( +9 / -10 )

What has been the conclusion of the scientific research for all these years of hunting and killing so many whales? Killing is conserving? That commercial whaling is the way out of endangering their numbers?

Sei whales are endangered:

https://seaworld.org/Animal-Info/Animal-Bytes/Mammals/Endangered%20Whales

-6 ( +5 / -11 )

@Makiro Shimizu,

well said.

-7 ( +3 / -10 )

The market for the meat is insufficient to support a commercial whale hunt.

Then lift the ban and allow commercial hunting. If you are right no one will do so and the industry will cease to exist.

The price of whale meat is currently rock-bottom, due to over supply and lack of demand. It costs three times as much to catch a whale than is brought in by sales of the meat, much of which has to be stored in freezers or given away to schools. Whalers even shamefully took $30 million from the fund created to rebuild coastal areas in Tohoku.

Resuming commercial hunting will lead to several things; more whales in freezers, less whales in the sea, more subsidies needed to support the industry. It will not lead to the entire population suddenly putting whale meat in their kids' bento boxes every morning. This is basic supply and demand economics.

-5 ( +7 / -12 )

and there is not one mention that these whales are not endangered species. so just another mammal being used for food. what's the big deal?

Are you being sarcastic or did you really mean that? .

-5 ( +6 / -11 )

Dom Palmer Today  08:35 pm JST

And so, they need to kill them, because...?

Because even the IWC agrees that to gather some of the data requires lethal sampling.

Sec... checking: do you believe that it is ACTUALLY for scientific research?

-6 ( +5 / -11 )

Just because a whale is not endangered does not automatically excuse targeting and killing it.

I don't believe anyone said that it did.

4 ( +10 / -6 )

And so, they need to kill them, because...?

Because even the IWC agrees that to gather some of the data requires lethal sampling.

World opinion has actually had some effect. It has driven the whaling fleet back into the northern hemisphere.

What? The fleet never left the Northern Hemisphere. They have always conducted a hunt in the Northern Pacific around July and a hunt in the Southern Ocean around December, nothing has changed in that regard.

if they really wanted to study them, there was no need to kill them in the first place.

> I wouldn't trust any of their findings. I'm sure there will be tampering of data in case said species are still endangered.

Lethal means are required for some of the data. And they made an offer to the IWC to allow neutral observers on all the ships and to establish a DNA database of every whale taken to allow for random sampling to ensure only registered catches were being sold. The anti-whaling faction rejected the offer.

the materials gleaned from dead whales could be replicated from other sources much more cheaply

And just how do you replicate whale meat from other sources?

Ah the old argument about them not being endangered.

Just because an argument is old doesn't mean it isn't true.

What I don’t understand is why catch so many if so few people are eating whale meat these days?

It is basic statistics. For the data to mean anything requires a sufficient number of samples from different individuals. Just like when taking a poll they don't just ask one person.

The market for the meat is insufficient to support a commercial whale hunt.

Then lift the ban and allow commercial hunting. If you are right no one will do so and the industry will cease to exist.

5 ( +14 / -9 )

Sigh. I guess the picture victim is on its way to Toyosu in October? Sad for everyone.

-8 ( +6 / -14 )

Just because a whale is not endangered does not automatically excuse targeting and killing it. These mammals have many functions in the endangered ocean biosphere. Leave them alone!.

-7 ( +7 / -14 )

Yeah, Sei whales have not recovered from their slaughter in the first half of last century. It seems pretty obvious the Japanese are intent on hunting whales back to near extinction just because the rest of the world is against it. They are just donkey's butts! Plain and simple! There is no other explanation. They do not need to hunt whales. The market for the meat is insufficient to support a commercial whale hunt.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

and there is not one mention that these whales are not endangered species.

Nice try boss, but wrong. Sei whales are officially listed as 'Endangered'. The government of Japan is promoting the slaughter of an endangered species for political capital.

-4 ( +9 / -13 )

It is completely unneccessary. Barbaric in this day and age.

-3 ( +11 / -14 )

Japan is admired worldwide by several reasons. This coward whale hunt under this ridiculous excuse that is made for scientific purposes is not accepted even by ordinary people without academic titles. There is no need to kill, to assassinate whales. Shameful.

-1 ( +13 / -14 )

OK. So it’s called research, whatever. What I don’t understand is why catch so many if so few people are eating whale meat these days? Aren’t there storage facilities filled with rotting whale meat already?

-4 ( +8 / -12 )

I believe the term is TAX PAYERS MONEY "Ahooooy"

-5 ( +6 / -11 )

As long as there is no Green party in the country this will just go on.

-4 ( +7 / -11 )

Yup, they are a source of food and other materials,

Which are not needed - the UK ceased whaling because it was no longer viable as the materials gleaned from dead whales could be replicated from other sources much more cheaply and without slaughter. As for food - it's hardly a delicacy except with people who are too bloody minded to say otherwise.

they are more than plentiful in numbers,

Ah the old argument about them not being endangered.

it creates jobs and livelihoods for people,

Whalers mostly

it creates supporting industries in shipping, logistics, services, etc., and this all creates knock on economic growth to the wider economy. Why anyone would be against this is astonishing and bewildering.

To rely on one means of income is dangerous at best.

Do you have any good, logical reasons why whaling should stop? Let's hear proper arguments, and not "because they are cuddly and cute", or "they are intelligent", or "because we can whale watch them". These are all garbage emotional reasons that aren't even valid in primary school. Proper arguments only

Which primary schools? Most kids are taught that whales are a major part of the planet's eco-stystem, not big floating whaleburgers. Whale oil is not needed by industry. Blubber is not needed. Whale meat is piling up because no-one wants to eat it. No-one uses baleen for corsets anymore. No-one carves whale bone anymore. Ambergris is no longer used in perfume production.

The sooner that Japan and parts of Scandanavia stop the better!

-4 ( +9 / -13 )

if they really wanted to study them, there was no need to kill them in the first place.

I wouldn't trust any of their findings. I'm sure there will be tampering of data in case said species are still endangered.

0 ( +12 / -12 )

A waste of tax money. If the J-government wants to give the middle finger to western activists, they should use their own pocket money (of which they seem to have plenty).

1 ( +13 / -12 )

OMG, this monstrous logic: 'we now killed 177 whales to ' to study the number, eating patterns, and biology of whales that Japan wants to analyse to support its claim that certain whales are not endangered and could be caught for consumption.'

We are killing now to get the proof they can be killed.

Having worked and dined with many Japanese,I have never seen whale meat ordered at a party. There was even a horse meat once, but never whale.

Its not something people crave to eat anymore because there are so many options,what is the purpose of killing? What's so nostalgic about eating whale meat remembering how you were oppressed and poor?

0 ( +13 / -13 )

It's only done out of spite, it's hardly a staple food. It's the old men in power that refuse to acknowledge its a practice detrimental to consume detrimental to Japan's image. Ceasing the practice would seriously curtail the cash flow of a few. Thus a group of zombie like politicians March towards isolation over a lump of unwanted blubber that's been sitting in a freezer for years. Even school children leave it on their plate dogs turn their nose up when presented with it.

Smith great post by the way, and that is science

2 ( +16 / -14 )

Asinine: "We've all heard the emotional "arguments" of the anti-whaling virtue signalers, and no one is remotely convinced."

As opposed to the very convincing "It's for science!" and "We have to kill them to show that there are some left!" arguments by the whalers, who are not scientists to begin with? and followed by conservatives who admit it's not about science?

-6 ( +18 / -24 )

We've all heard the emotional "arguments" of the anti-whaling virtue signalers, and no one is remotely convinced. Good hunting!

5 ( +24 / -19 )

That photo makes me sick to my heart

-7 ( +15 / -22 )

"Data that were gathered during this mission will be analysed, along with results from coastal research programs," the agency said.'

The agency went on to say, "We have absolutely and scientifically proven that there are 177 less whales in the ocean than before we killed those, and from here we will go on to study whether they taste better with the thousand year old tradition of mayonnaise, or soy sauce. Furthermore, we have proven that there are still whales, so we can keep killing them. Once we cannot kill more, we will have proven that killing them all has left them all dead, with no more to kill. That will be other countries' fault, by the way. It is pure science! We will also prove that passing the blubber from whales to old men will result in an increase in paper called money. That is science! And if you dare criticise our science, remember that it's our culture to do this -- going to international and even other nations' coastal waters in diesel ships to catch whales for meat. It's not about science! So don't you dare push your imperialistic agenda's on Japanese culture! When the war ended it was horrible... all we had to eat was whale! It provided us with nutrition. Eating it was awful. When I put whale meat in my mouth and choke back on the fat, I remember those times with nostalgia! Now, kids these days have all sorts of options and don't want it, so our meat, which we caught for science, scientifically wastes in freezers. But we force it on them... hehehe. So they MUST eat meat like we do! In turn, we give the student lunch companies a discount, and the government gives us more subsidies for meat sold. This is all science, people... and ancient traditional culture... but science."

-7 ( +18 / -25 )

such biased reporting as usual from afp.  a "loophole" is defined as an "ambiguity in the law." there is no ambiguity here. the IWC allows for scientific catching of whales. japan is merely doing what is allowed in the guidelines of membership.

and there is not one mention that these whales are not endangered species. so just another mammal being used for food. what's the big deal?

6 ( +24 / -18 )

World opinion has actually had some effect. It has driven the whaling fleet back into the northern hemisphere.

-5 ( +11 / -16 )

Good to hear it was such a good catch! The resumption of commercial whaling is just around the corner as whale stocks have proven to be more than enough. In fact they should probably even be culled due to overpopulation of whales and pressure on the lower food chain. Good to see the Nordics upping their quotas too

-4 ( +20 / -24 )

They need to paint more 'Research' signs on the boats.

18 ( +26 / -8 )

A good start towards conservation is not to kill them in the first place.

0 ( +24 / -24 )

our tax goes to this? this is crazy af

-1 ( +24 / -25 )

The latest mission was part of a 12-year project to study the number, eating patterns, and biology of whales that Japan wants to analyse to support its claim that certain whales are not endangered and could be caught for consumption.

And so, they need to kill them, because...?

despite a significant decline in the popularity of whale meat.

Indeed. "Let's go eat whale" is something I never heard in 10 years here.

0 ( +25 / -25 )

....because of research. Yeah, whatever.

-4 ( +22 / -26 )

Just stop. Total waste of taxpayer money and creates enemies around the world unnecessarily.

1 ( +29 / -28 )

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