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2 love hotels reprimanded for denying room to gay couple

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Good for them to speak up against this discrimination.

6 ( +36 / -30 )

Something sounds fishy here! Typically love hotels are anonymous, as there is little contact with the people who run the place, and not to mention that often times single people, groups of teenagers, and all sorts of people, use them as well.

Seems to me like someone target these two for whatever reason, and now are getting their 15 minutes of fame.

12 ( +33 / -21 )

What difference does it make if they're charged by the hour? If they both wanna do it, let them. It is a business, amiright?

13 ( +20 / -7 )

Yubaru, remaining completely anonymous seems to defeat the whole notion of seeking "15 minutes of fame".

I have some gay friends and they've told me it's standard practice to refuse same sex couples and a lot of love hotels have signs outside blankly stating they refuse same sex groups (usually specifically men).

It's the usual issue of it supposedly being illegal to discriminate against gay couples but they're also being zero enforcement or punitive measures to stop it. Just a knock on that misted sliding door and "Make sure this never happens again".

23 ( +33 / -10 )

Yubaru, remaining completely anonymous seems to defeat the whole notion of seeking "15 minutes of fame".

I was talking about the couples.

-16 ( +10 / -26 )

The hotels are permitted to refuse guest if they suspect anything illegal or immoral like prostitution may be taking place.

-4 ( +23 / -27 )

Love hotels are private establishments and should be allowed to decide which guests to accept and which to turn down.

-22 ( +27 / -49 )

The hotels are permitted to refuse guest if they suspect anything illegal or immoral like prostitution may be taking place.

So by your logic, two men going to a love hotel automatically raises suspicion of prostitution, but a 70+ year old man with a 20 year old woman (which is regularly accepted) doesn't?...Sorry doesn't pan out..

40 ( +54 / -14 )

If you own something you have the right as to who uses it and who doesnt..There is more to this story than meets the eye...

-16 ( +18 / -34 )

The hotels are permitted to refuse guest if they suspect anything illegal or immoral like prostitution may be taking place.

Irrelevant, this is not America here, being gay is not immoral nor illegal.

14 ( +32 / -18 )

While I agree that private businesses have the right to decides who use their businesses, I do think it's not kind to refuse couples who aren't causing any harm, or simply for being gay.

It could be that these two are known by insiders in the industry as activists. I know that LGBTQ activists have been deliberately targeting certain industries in Japan to set the up for 'outing' them as discriminatory. I know of an associate to whom this happened.

1 ( +14 / -13 )

Irrelevant, this is not America here, being gay is not immoral nor illegal.

Of course not, but if they feel it’s a health risk and don’t want to allow gays to be in their establishment, they are allowed to do that.

-29 ( +14 / -43 )

Yubaru

You are great at seeing the negative flip side in any circumstance man!

-2 ( +11 / -13 )

As a money oriented individual, I wouldn't have turned them away.

13 ( +18 / -5 )

The health ministry banned hotels and inns from refusing any guests because of sexual orientation or gender identity in an amended guideline under the hotel business law in January 2018.

http://www.japaneselawtranslation.go.jp/law/detail/?id=3272&vm=04&re=02

9 ( +18 / -9 )

Private businesses do not have the right to discriminate. The law actually forbids discrimination, and that information is even in the article: "despite a law that bans turning away guests because of sexual orientation or gender identity."

12 ( +27 / -15 )

A male buddy of mine years back said he travelled up and down Japan with his male buddy. Both are non-gay. They tried to stay at love hotels because they were cheaper than typical business hotels or capsule hotels. 50% refused them. However, 2 female friends that did the same had no trouble.

24 ( +26 / -2 )

It’s kind of disheartening that this stuff is still happening in 2020. But I have to agree with other posters that most love hotels are anonymous and if there is a person at reception, you can’t even see their face. A little strange. That being said, people are people and nobody should be discriminated against because of their sexual orientation

10 ( +18 / -8 )

Posters supporting the refusal because it's their business would also support a hotel refusing a foreigner.

27 ( +34 / -7 )

@Meiyouwenti

Love hotels are private establishments and should be allowed to decide which guests to accept and which to turn down.

Your house is a private establishment. A hotel is a licensed business, required to operate within the laws governing that business. In the case of hotels, the law states that they cannot reject someone on the basis of sexual orientation. The end.

25 ( +32 / -7 )

But a man can take an obvious high school or junior high school girl with you no problem. (Rolls eyes)

15 ( +21 / -6 )

A male buddy of mine years back said he travelled up and down Japan with his male buddy. Both are non-gay. They tried to stay at love hotels because they were cheaper than typical business hotels or capsule hotels. 50% refused them. However, 2 female friends that did the same had no trouble.

i know women who have stayed at love hotels for exactly that reason. Two women, no problem. I doubt there was anyone who popped out and asked, “Are you gay?”

14 ( +15 / -1 )

I have never been refused a room for being gay... because I am not, BUT I have been refused a room many times for not speaking Japanese, or not speaking Japnese well enough.

13 ( +15 / -2 )

A lot of these love hotels are mom and pop establishments , run by the not so young.

So no surprise that their thinking is not developed.

Not all of them use technology to offer anonymity , so like any hotel you end up doing a check-in at the counter.

1 ( +9 / -8 )

*Private businesses do not have the right to discriminate. The law actually forbids discrimination, and that information is even in the article: "despite a law that bans turning away guests because of sexual orientation or gender identity."*

Yeah, but you can apply that to many laws in Japan. Gambling is illegal as well, but they get around that as well. Again, it may be wrong, but a lot of people still have uncomfortable feelings of gay men together in a Love Hotel together and if it’s a private owned establishment, they can bar people from coming in and they’ll go around corners to enforce it the way they see fit.

-9 ( +11 / -20 )

Setting aside any issues about morality or political correctness, as odd as it sounds, love hotels are legally not hotels, and not governed by the Hotel Business Act.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Some of those same places refuse foreigners too !

But were these two who got refused asking to have a cake baked for them ................................

People get refused things everyday in this world.

-10 ( +6 / -16 )

but a lot of people still have uncomfortable feelings of gay men together in a Love Hotel together and if it’s a private owned establishment

Substitute the word "American" for "gay" and you'll see just how ridiculous this justification is.

4 ( +10 / -6 )

Of course not, but if they feel it’s a health risk and don’t want to allow gays to be in their establishment, they are allowed to do that.

What a joke, better chance of some STD being passed between a man and a woman than a couple of guys!

-2 ( +8 / -10 )

You are great at seeing the negative flip side in any circumstance man!

On the face of it, it comes across as these places were targeted by these couples, as odds are this wasnt the first time they were refused there and decided to make a stink about it.

If they dont want their business, go somewhere else, there are plenty of love hotels that dont care!

It's kind of a Pyrrhic victory in my opinion

-3 ( +8 / -11 )

The operator of one of the hotels accepted the order. However, the other said the couple was turned down "not because they were of the same gender," but for a different reason that the city declined to reveal, according to the official.

Well the biggest part of this is being withheld.

Also, turned away from two places, there are probably other reasons involved.

-6 ( +6 / -12 )

Was the hotel's manager named Basil Fawlty by any chance?

8 ( +9 / -1 )

Those hotel owners should move to America, where perverts can’t bully business owners anymore with their mentally illness.

No doubt the hotel owners would encounter irrational bigotry, themselves, for the crime of being Asian.

And we prefer the term LGBT. With our "mentally" illnesses...

6 ( +11 / -5 )

Of course not, but if they feel it’s a health risk and don’t want to allow gays to be in their establishment, they are allowed to do that.

How are gay people a health risk?

8 ( +15 / -7 )

Slap them with a monetary fine. A reprimand won't work as well.

10 ( +14 / -4 )

YubaruToday 10:24 am JST

On the face of it, it comes across as these places were targeted by these couples, as odds are this wasnt the first time they were refused there and decided to make a stink about it.

So you are saying that they went to those hotels knowing that the hotel would discriminate against them, thereby tricking the hotel into discriminating against them? Since the hotel's actions weren't legal in the first place, you aren't making the point you think you are making.

If they dont want their business, go somewhere else, there are plenty of love hotels that dont care!

If people who encountered discrimination simply went elsewhere and never reported it and never sued for damages, then there would be no negative publicity and no consequences for discrimination. That would allow discrimination to continue unabated.

But I suppose that is exactly what you want - a free license to discriminate without consequences. That says a lot.

8 ( +16 / -8 )

iradickleToday 10:24 am JST

Well the biggest part of this is being withheld.

Also, turned away from two places, there are probably other reasons involved.

They were turned away for the same reason at both places, so no, there were no other reasons involved - just homophobic bigotry.

7 ( +14 / -7 )

Bjorn TomentionToday 09:56 am JST

Hello again, my friend. Let me fix your post for you.

Some of those same places refuse foreigners too !

Racial discrimination is also common.

But were these two who got refused asking to have a cake baked for them ................................

Other types of businesses have in the past also used homophobia as an excuse to discriminate.

People get refused things everyday in this world.

Unfortunately, it is a sad fact that discrimination is common in the world.

7 ( +15 / -8 )

I really have my work cut out for me today. Oh well, I'm bored at home during a pandemic, so here we go again:

bass4funkToday 09:32 am JST"*

Yeah, but you can apply that to many laws in Japan. Gambling is illegal as well, but they get around that as well.

You aren't making the point you think you are. Just because illegal gambling establishments manage to circumvent the law doesn't mean that we can ignore it when other businesses also circumvent the law.

Again, it may be wrong, but a lot of people still have uncomfortable feelings of gay men together in a Love Hotel together and if it’s a private owned establishment, they can bar people from coming in and they’ll go around corners to enforce it the way they see fit.

You are basically saying that, yes, they are homophobic, and yes, discrimination is illegal, but we should ignore intolerance and allow people to break the law because well, people are intolerant and people will break the law regardless.

Are all laws just useless then? Should we have no laws since people will break them anyway?

Should we just not bother to try to change a discriminatory and homophobic society? Do we not want a society where every person is treated with respect and kindness regardless of their sexuality or gender identity, race, religion, disability, or sex?

9 ( +16 / -7 )

girl_in_tokyo

They were turned away for the same reason at both places, so no, there were no other reasons involved - just homophobic bigotry.

"The operator of one of the hotels accepted the order. However, the other said the couple was turned down "not because they were of the same gender," but for a different reason that the city declined to reveal, according to the official."

There are multiple reasons why someone would be turned away from a "love" hotel, city officials even went to the hotels! But declined to reveal their  reason for turning them away? Maybe... there was a reason

-2 ( +7 / -9 )

northernlife:

If you own something you have the right as to who uses it and who doesnt..There is more to this story than meets the eye...

Next time you get chucked out of an onsen or restaurant just because you're a gaijin, please don't come crying to us.

Dadude:

A male buddy of mine years back said he travelled up and down Japan with his male buddy. Both are non-gay. They tried to stay at love hotels because they were cheaper than typical business hotels or capsule hotels. 50% refused them. However, 2 female friends that did the same had no trouble.

It's funny how some male bigots enjoy the thought of two hot lesbians making out.

8 ( +13 / -5 )

When I lived and worked in Japan in the 80's, I oftentimes frequented love hotels with my Japanese gay lovers and I experienced no resistance whatsoever from the staff. That was then so you would think that now it would be unimaginable.

6 ( +9 / -3 )

bass4funkToday

Of course not, but if they feel it’s a health risk and don’t want to allow gays to be in their establishment, they are allowed to do that.

Gay sex is no more of a health risk than heterosexual sex. They can both be very unsanitary if proper precautions aren't taken, but the love hotel industry don't seem to have a problem with this for heterosexual couples, so I don't see how this is suddenly a risk for gay couples.

a lot of people still have uncomfortable feelings of gay men together in a Love Hotel together and if it’s a private owned establishment,

First of all, I don't see how this is anyone's business other than the patrons using the hotel. Sex is sex. As I mentioned above, heterosexual sex can be just as, or even more unsanitary than gay sex. Once that door is closed and locked, you don't know what a gay or straight couple is going to do or what kind of sex they are going to have, nor should it be anyone's business but theirs. This is just baseless discrimination and nothing else.

they can bar people from coming in and they’ll go around corners to enforce it the way they see fit.

Maybe so, but they are only going to hurt themselves in the long run, because there are going be nearby competitors that will happily accept gay couples, and they will eventually be ran out of business. US businesses (wedding cake makers that discriminate especially) are learning this the hard way, and rightfully so.

6 ( +12 / -6 )

But declined to reveal their  reason for turning them away? Maybe... there was a reason

Or maybe... maybe they didn't want to reveal their irrational bigotry.

For example, for some, it's all to easy to post online that we're immoral and spread diseases but how many people (esp those running businesses) would put their real names to such statements?

Very few, I'll warrant.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

Stayed with my brother at an LH and also alone -no problems either time...

0 ( +3 / -3 )

As long as they clean the sheets before I go in I have no complaints. Only thing I can't stand is the smell of smoke leftover.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

I'd hate to work as a cleaner at one of those places.

8 ( +11 / -3 )

While I agree that private businesses have the right to decides who use their businesses

So you agree with the right of a private business to refuse service to someone based on skin color?

8 ( +11 / -3 )

Do we not want a society where every person is treated with respect and kindness regardless of their sexuality or gender identity, race, religion, disability, or sex?

What if someone’s religion teaches homosexuality is unnatural and sinful?

Do you respect that person’s view? Are they bigoted?

5 ( +8 / -3 )

some believe homosexual behaviour is not normal or acceptable but you would discriminate against them simply on their beliefs can you not see your own hypocrisy.

This is somewhat different to the deleted post.

As an LGBT person, I can tell you that it's as normal and acceptable as heterosexuality.

Some religions discriminate against women. Some of their teachings advocate slavery, incest, stoning people who engage in idolatory, sexual relations outside of marriage and so on.

I'd rather people just treat others as normal. But unfortunately, every day, gay people are told they are un-natural, diseased, going to hell, paedophiles, dirty, mentally ill. Even so-called world leaders (hello, Bolsonaro) display naked bigotry towards us.

I'm quite confused as to why some religions/and/or religious people are so concerned about what LGBT people do behind doors. Let me give you a hint - it's pretty much the same as heterosexuals.

And let me emphasises, I say some religious people. Most I know are fine with sexuality, and many are LGBT and religious.

6 ( +12 / -6 )

What if someone’s religion teaches homosexuality is unnatural and sinful?

Freedom of religion doesn't mean freedom to discriminate. And if you think your religion teaches you to discriminate against another person, then either you're wrong or your stupid religion is wrong (get a new religion, because its broken!)

8 ( +14 / -6 )

And if you think your religion teaches you to discriminate against another person, then either you're wrong or your stupid religion is wrong (get a new religion, because its broken!)

I agree, but there are many people around the world who believe ( with justification from their texts ) that homosexuality is unnatural and sinful, and they shouldn’t be forced to accommodate behaviour they find immoral.

Are these people bigots who should be treated with the disdain given to other homophobes?

-8 ( +3 / -11 )

Bjorn TomentionToday 12:31 pm JST

and you should also add beliefs to that, some believe homosexual behaviour is not normal or acceptable but you would discriminate against them simply on their beliefs can you not see your own hypocrisy.

If I understand correctly, you are trying to say that speaking against homophobia and the discrimination and prejudice resulting from it is somehow hypocritical as it equates to intolerance. If I may quote Karl Popper:

"Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them."

Treat those with different views with the respect you are so demanding of, respect their right to choice too!

Freedom of choice not having to have some one elses choice enforced on you.

Oh but they must ! is what you are saying.

If I am not misunderstanding you, you are calling for respect for bigoted views and the allowance of discrimination in the name of freedom of choice.

Popper went on to say that oppression of intolerant views is justifiable when people refuse any rational argument and attempt to enforce their views by "fist or pistol". He was referring to physical violence, which is exactly how homophobes have attempted to terrorize GLBTQIA people into silence for decades.

I urge you to have a good long think on the meaning of tolerance and the importance of empathy towards your fellow human beings.

2 ( +11 / -9 )

love hotels are legally not hotels, and not governed by the Hotel Business Act.

Yes they are. They are registered has a hotel business and issued with a hotel license usually displayed at the reception desk.

11 ( +12 / -1 )

However, the other said the couple was turned down "not because they were of the same gender," but for a different reason that the city declined to reveal, according to the official.

This is so childish and comedic.

"Honestly it's not because I'm discriminating." [Makes up giant BS story].

[City official comes back to complainant] "It's fine, it wasn't discrimination, the clerk just thought you might be human trafficking."

6 ( +10 / -4 )

Maybe these hotels are run by the Jehovah's Witness who don't believe in Gay sex???

0 ( +5 / -5 )

Maybe these hotels are run by the Jehovah's Witness who don't believe in Gay sex???

Could be.

I asked a question based on the idea of respecting someone’s religion. Do we make allowances for someone being anti-LGBT because it’s a religious conviction? I get the sense people who base their homophobia on religion tend to get an easier ride than other homophobes.

Should they be treated with equal disdain?

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

The "couple" in the question could have been a 60 year-old man with a 16 year-old boy for all we know.

And the owner's have the right to turn away customers if they suspect prostitution.

It's their call, not yours.

-6 ( +6 / -12 )

The "couple" in the question could have been a 60 year-old man with a 16 year-old boy for all we know.

But a 60 year old man and a 16 year old school girl would have been perfectly fine, as it happens all the fricken time.

Jimizo

You're trying to preach morality and religion as being the justification for discrimination, but I guarantee you one thing, the person or people who own and or manage this love hotel are not worried about being immoral or defying religious text, otherwise they would be in another line of business. So please spare me your moot argument.

2 ( +8 / -6 )

Readers, religion is not relevant to this discussion.

Of course not, but if they feel it’s a health risk and don’t want to allow gays to be in their establishment, they are allowed to do that.

Even more irrelevant, this is not Alabama nor Mississippi here, being gay is not a disease.

5 ( +12 / -7 )

None of you seem to understand what is going on here. This is a love hotel. Get it? For people in love! Are these two guys really in love? Food for thought. [ Heh, heh...]

-11 ( +4 / -15 )

One last thing, (sorry moderator), people who frequent love hotels are often cheating couples and adulterers, so if these hotel owners/managers were so worried about their "morals" they would have reject every single couple who don't have marriage license....so this wasn't about morality...it was plainly discrimination.

4 ( +13 / -9 )

For all those who support the denial, or simply think the owners have a right really need to read the final paragraph of the post.

2 ( +7 / -5 )

If I dont like someone get a bad feeling about them im not renting to them full stop...pull any card you want on me but end of the day I own the property and there is jack that you can do about it.....problem solved..

-2 ( +8 / -10 )

Yes they are. They are registered has a hotel business and issued with a hotel license usually displayed at the reception desk.

Some functionally love hotels may register as legitimate hotels, but love hotels proper are governed by the Entertainment Law not the hotel law.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Michael MachidaToday 03:00 pm JST

None of you seem to understand what is going on here. This is a love hotel. Get it? For people in love! Are these two guys really in love? Food for thought. [ Heh, heh...]

Are you saying that all of the heterosexual couples who visit love hotels are in love? I think we all know that is not the case.

Further, are you trying to imply that homosexual couples "don't really" love each other? If so, then your comment is probably the worst of the homophobic comments that we have had here so far. At least the others didn't dehumanize gay people to the point where they suggested they weren't capable of loving their partner.

0 ( +9 / -9 )

Burning BushToday 02:32 pm JST

The "couple" in the question could have been a 60 year-old man with a 16 year-old boy for all we know.

And the owner's have the right to turn away customers if they suspect prostitution.

It's their call, not yours.

Actually, the city officials made the call, and it was due to sexual orientation, not teenage prostitution:

"...reprimanded after refusing to rent a room to a gay couple despite a law that bans turning away guests because of sexual orientation or gender identity."

2 ( +10 / -8 )

But I suppose that is exactly what you want - a free license to discriminate without consequences. That says a lot.

One this IS Japan right? Learn to pick you battles, these folks are not going to win any "wars" by picking on love hotels to fight discrimination.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

Businesses do not have the right to discriminate. Not only illegal, but poor business practice too, turning away customers.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

YubaruToday 03:43 pm JST

One this IS Japan right? Learn to pick you battles, these folks are not going to win any "wars" by picking on love hotels to fight discrimination.

Who are you to tell GLBTQIA, who have been dealing with and fighting against discrimination their entire lives, what battles they should or should not be choosing to fight?

What personal experience do you have that informs your belief that you can make the right judgement call here?

The idea behind these kinds of protests is that allowing any discrimination to go unremarked on will undermine progress made on larger battles. In other words, we work from the bottom up.

Do you even know that in the US, the first brick thrown in the battle was over the right to have a drink in a bar? That culminated in same-sex marriage rights. Perhaps you should just stand back and let us take care of this. We know what we are doing.

-1 ( +9 / -10 )

That is a weird story. Love hotels are either completely or almost anonymous, or is that different in "West Japan"?

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Its like going to a bar that doesnt sell the brand of beer or makes the cocktails you want but demanding they serve it, you have the choice to go some where that stocks your brand of beer or makes the cocktails you like.

The owner has the right to serve the drinks he wants to serve, or sell the burgers he chooses to serve he doesnt have to sell cheeseburgers if he doesnt want to make them does he.

By the way try to going to some love hotels around shinjuku with a member of the opposite sex and see the reaction you get.

Deal with who you are without making everyone else have to. Its your choice to or not, we have should have a choice in not having to.

-8 ( +5 / -13 )

Deal with who you are without making everyone else have to. Its your choice to or not, we have should have a choice in not having to.

I'm a human being.

I choose to embrace love and reject hatred.

Who are you to turn me away because of who I sleep with?

3 ( +9 / -6 )

@girl_in_tokyo

How do you know that this is not the case? I think it is the case. Everyone thinks its the case. But you seem to know its not the case. Case closed.

-8 ( +5 / -13 )

Everyone thinks its the case

What, that only heterosexuals are capable of love?

Here's the thing - people of all sexual orientation visit hotels to engage in sexual congress. Some are in love, some are in lust, and some just want to feel warm with another body beside them.

All natural, all normal.

2 ( +10 / -8 )

@Bjorn Tomention: There are plenty of places that accept you and your partner why not go to those places, you have the power to spend your money where you fell comfortable and are accepted , but you want to force your views and choices on others, take your money some other place if you dont like the way some one serves or doesnt serve you, its quite simple and is common sense.

I am not sure your point, but if you open a business and take advantage of the public marketplace of customers, then you take the customers as they are, not picking and choosing. The right to choose is in the customer.

On the other hand, I recognize that love hotels are an unusual service provider with some unusual rules. For example, if you get a room many places will bar the guy from leaving first because they need to make sure that the lady friend is safe. Also, some of these places may have had problems with certain types of persons in the past and thus they developed certain rules not without a discriminatory intent.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

OMG! I beg to differ. If you look at statistics, you will see that things are not in your favor. Statistically speaking.

-7 ( +3 / -10 )

"Gay couple"? Why don't they stay at a business hotel?

-7 ( +5 / -12 )

OMG! I beg to differ. If you look at statistics, you will see that things are not in your favor.

Stats on what, exactly?

Have you and your partner been turned away from somewhere because of your sexuality?

2 ( +8 / -6 )

"Gay couple"? Why don't they stay at a business hotel?

Why can't they stay where they want?

5 ( +11 / -6 )

Lots of genuine homophobia here in the true sense of the word. What causes so much fear?

7 ( +13 / -6 )

That is a weird story. Love hotels are either completely or almost anonymous, or is that different in "West Japan"?

Or are they less anonymous than they make themselves out to be?

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Ah_so:

Or are they less anonymous than they make themselves out to be?

I don´t know what you mean. The ones I know in Tokyo are either completely automated, meaning you don´t even see human staff, or they have a tiny counter window where you really dont see any face. Yeah, I have been to one where one could see a human receptionist, but that is a rare exception. Your experience is different?

0 ( +5 / -5 )

Lots of genuine homophobia here in the true sense of the word. What causes so much fear?

Well, we're apparently discouraged from saying it might be connected to religious beliefs, so I'm still going with hatred that was learnt from parents, peers etc. And (in some cases) self-loathing.

It's all irrational, at the end of the day. Like the person who says "don't shove your beliefs/sexuality in my face" but we (non homophobic people) are supposed to accept their anger and hatreds.

So, one tries to counter it, the homophobia, and one is told that one has a chip on the shoulder, should stop going on about it, don't frequent bars/hotels/bakeries etc, go to your "own" places. Basically, just accept that you're a lesser person for daring to ask for equality.

All very strange.

5 ( +11 / -6 )

@Luddite Does Homophobia mean the fear of gays?

-7 ( +2 / -9 )

I don´t know what you mean. The ones I know in Tokyo are either completely automated, meaning you don´t even see human staff, or they have a tiny counter window where you really dont see any face. Yeah, I have been to one where one could see a human receptionist, but that is a rare exception. Your experience is different?

They have CCTV covering the lobbies, just as pretty much any business does. The frosted glass may save some blushes, but it is superficial anonymity.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Wow! Almost 100 comments, and nearly all of them positive about gays. Totally gay gokai loves it!

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

Old Man is becoming a liberal, first he wants to open the economy up too soon and now he's for gay rights. What's happening?

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Wow! Almost 100 comments, and nearly all of them positive about gays. Totally gay gokai loves it!

The dinosaurs bellowing over the swamps are getting fewer in number, at least in countries like Japan.

They know it’s coming to an end.

2 ( +7 / -5 )

You are bound and determined to present homosexuality as some kind of problem, aren't you. No shame at all on your part that you espouse discriminatory views.

Aye, it's all our fault for having the audacity to exist.

Still interested in finding out how this impacts on such people and why they feel they can turn us away (not because of cocktails or burgers etc) due to who we do or don't sleep with.

Anyway, have a rewarding evening, everyone. And whatever/whoever you're doing, stay safe and happy x

3 ( +6 / -3 )

@Luddite Does Homophobia mean the fear of gays?

A phobia is commonly defined as, 'an extreme or irrational fear of or aversion to something'.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

@girl

Ha. Good point - but with al the 'roids going around, I've nothing to fear!

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

JimizoToday 06:31 pm JST

The dinosaurs bellowing over the swamps are getting fewer in number, at least in countries like Japan.

They know it’s coming to an end.

Yep. That's why they take their grievances to the comments section of articles online. They can't express them to the people around them, because it's not acceptable, and they know it.

Times are changing and intolerance and discrimination against those who are different is not acceptable.

They have no good reason for their intolerance and they know it.

Look at how they try to dodge the questions, and slink back to old, already-debunked arguments.

They have nothing but their prejudice and ignorance.

0 ( +7 / -7 )

What personal experience do you have that informs your belief that you can make the right judgement call here?

There it is! The ol' "you're not part of (insert minority group here) so you have no right to an opinion on this" argument. Nonsense. We don't have to experience something to have an opinion on it, or to know if something is right or wrong.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

That's why they take their grievances to the comments section of articles online. They can't express them to the people around them, because it's not acceptable, and they know it.

No. It's because their names will be smeared online by anonymous posters who distort the truth.

And, some DO express them to the people around them.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

You can choose who to invite into your home, but if you are running a licensed commercial establishment you cannot choose who to serve and who to refuse. Just as a restaurant cannot refuse to serve a customer because she's black, so a hotel cannot refuse customers because they are gay. To have it any other way would be a very slippery slope.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

What is clearly missing in this article are the conditions stipulated in getting a license to run a Love Hotel.

If no discrimination, could it be sex orientation or having facilities fo reduced mobility people for instance, is an integral part of it and they are not respected there is no discussion: revocation of the license to operate!

That's it, no need to discuss about moral or private business or whatever else.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

LudditeMay 19 05:18 pm JSTLots of genuine homophobia here in the true sense of the word. What causes so much fear?

'Homophobia' generally means hatred of gays. But 'HOMOsexual' means 'same sex' and 'HOMO' = 'same'. But 'PHOBIA' means 'fear', not 'hate'. So 'homophobia' = 'HOMO' + 'FEAR' and homophobic people are really SCARED of gay people. And what is there really to be afraid of from these people?

It's been my observation that gay people, being a minority are more afraid of us straight people in the first place due to persecution, discrimination and hatred.

Gay people are nothing to be scared of.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

And what is there really to be afraid of from these people?

They dress better than us and have better manners. We can't have that.

(Just joking. I'm basing this on a gay couple I know. Their life seems as boring as mine.)

2 ( +4 / -2 )

These people

People just like you and me.

Normal, everyday folk.

The difference is, some of us are being told to stay in the ghetto. That a bigoted minority should be allowed discriminate against us because of who we sleep with.

That we shouldn't get married because the population will be affected.

That we shouldn't adopt because it's not fair on the children.

Because we're not real people, are we?

Say these things to our faces and you will find out how real we are.

We will go public with your prejudices - what do you expect?

How else to fight back against irrational hatred?

0 ( +4 / -4 )

That we shouldn't get married because the population will be affected

Gays are a minority so how is that going to 'affect the population'? It doesn't. And they are real people. They didn't choose their orientation. Since gay marriages became legal in America the 'morality of the nation' hasn't decreased - it already had a long time before that.

To paraphrase it, before criticizing gays the straight majority needs to look at themselves and the myth of the American Family.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

Bugle Boy of Company BMay 19 09:16 pm JST

There it is! The ol' "you're not part of (insert minority group here) so you have no right to an opinion on this" argument. Nonsense. We don't have to experience something to have an opinion on it, or to know if something is right or wrong.

Or perhaps you should consider that having no personal experience of something means that you don't have a clear perspective on the issue and therefore should listen to those that do.

And, some DO express them to the people around them.

You do you.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

The hotels are permitted to refuse guest if they suspect anything illegal or immoral like prostitution may be taking place.

So prostitution is "immoral" but two people cheating on their spouses is not?

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Business have the right to refuse service to some people, ever seen places with a dress code?

ie in australia for example some bars say people cannot enter in flipflops and men cannot enter in shirtless tops, so your argument about a business not being able to choose who it serves is invalid.

Have you ever as a customer applied for a service and been declined? Credit card maybe or internet or housing or something, you telling me that business has no right to decline you ?

Of course a business can choose who it wants to deal with, some of you have no clue about reality at all.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

And they are real people. They didn't choose their orientation.

Aye, nobody does. I think some people are confused about this; we are the way we are - we don't wake up one day, thinking, hmm, reckon I'll be straight/hetero/bisexual/non-binary etc today!

Gay people are nothing to be scared of.

In an ideal world, but people have irrational fears and prejudices that even they are too frightened to address. Hell, just look at the downvotes.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Some just think that being gay gives them special privileges and the right to slap who ever they dont like, many people get refused service at various business every day for various reasons but they dont go crying on the internet about their special group having hurt feelings.

There are, as some have mentioned, activist gay groups looking for targets to make examples out of too that is very clear.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

And if there are laws and regulations in place to protect against discrimination the business owners are required to follow them or risk losing their business license.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Some just think that being gay gives them special privileges and the right to slap who ever they dont like

Nobody is slapping anyone. A gay couple were refused a room. Irrational prejudice is being questioned.

Why turn away someone because of who they sleep with?

but they dont go crying on the internet about their special group having hurt feelings.

This is the new "colored people should just shut up and understand life's unfair" that segregationists would use as their argument.

There are, as some have mentioned, activist gay groups looking for targets to make examples out of too that is very clear.

Good. I'm all for naming and shaming. How do you think rights and acceptance is achieved. By being good little LGBTs and meekly taking our punishment? Ever heard of Stonewall?

0 ( +4 / -4 )

I dont think there should be any problem keeping the gay couple out of the hotel.

Well, your deleted comment showed exactly what you think of LGBT people, so I'll take your analysis with a pinch of salt.

Incidentally, is it purely for business reasons you want people like me to stay segregated? If so, I'll gladly avoid your hotel/place of leisure.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

This topic is related to Japan.

I repeat, the only valid question for this case is: have these love hotels infringed the rules of the granted licence to operate?

Rules, regulations or even morals in other countries are completely irrelevant to this article.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

They didn't choose their orientation.

I believe homophobes are of the opinion that they have chosen heterosexuality.

It's why they're so worried. It freaks them out that they could be 'turned' with the right glass of whine and a light breath on the neck...

1 ( +5 / -4 )

@Zichi

Sorry to repeat what you said in a more simple and clear way. You just said it all.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Rules, regulations or even morals in other countries are completely irrelevant to this article.

No, morals have rights. When it comes to the oppression of people based on whom they choose to love, that's a moral issue, and must be condemned regardless of where it happens.

Sorry, you don't get any special cultural exclusion for homophobia.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

StrangerlandToday  11:17 pm JST

Rules, regulations or even morals in other countries are completely irrelevant to this article.

No, morals have rights. When it comes to the oppression of people based on whom they choose to love, that's a moral issue, and must be condemned regardless of where it happens.

Sorry, you don't get any special cultural exclusion for homophobia.

Have I ever said anything justifying homophobia?

Please read again my posts.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

StrangerlandToday 11:01 pm JSTThey didn't choose their orientation.

I believe homophobes are of the opinion that they have chosen heterosexuality.

It's why they're so worried. It freaks them out that they could be 'turned' with the right glass of whine and a light breath on the neck...

And that's probably what scares them. But it isn't quite like that - what you are is what you are. And it takes two willing people to tango. Anything beyond that is rape/assault, which  knows no boundaries of gender or orientation.

Like I posted earlier, gays are generally nothing to worry about and most of them are not the assaulting kind. And most of them are more scared of us straight guys because they don't want to get beat up or wind like Matthew Shepard. I am not gay but I know most of them do not fit the stereotypes and I do not fear them.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Have I ever said anything justifying homophobia?

Please read again my posts.

In my opinion, what you are doing is trying to justify allowing discrimination. As homophobia falls under the umbrella of discrimination, you are indirectly and in a roundabout way trying to justify the allowance of homophobia. And to those of us in the LGBTQIA community, who encounter homophobia quite often, that's close enough to being actual homophobia for us to feel distrust of your motivations. Can you understand that point of view?

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Like I posted earlier, gays are generally nothing to worry about and most of them are not the assaulting kind.

Gee, thanks! I know you mean well...

And most of them are more scared of us straight guys because they don't want to get beat up or wind like Matthew Shepard.

I'm not scared, just disappointed.

I am not gay but I know most of them do not fit the stereotypes and I do not fear them.

Why do people, when voicing support for LGBT always have to clarify that they are straight & not gay? If you don't fear us, do you fear that showing support will mean others might think you're one of us?

Again, I know you mean well & you're a decent poster but there's nothing to fear - only ignorance.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Toasted Heretic I'm not scared, just disappointed.

'Disappointed'? Here's a real true to life example. I've encountered lesbian couples holding hands in public and they've smiled + waved at me and I've waved back. Once at a concert featuring Adam Ant, I met a gay man couple holding hands and they were about to kiss - but they saw me and looked scared - like I was going to beat them up. I motioned 'go ahead if you want to' and they hugged and kissed in the arena. But why were they looking so frightened at me? I wasn't there for anything but Antmusic and a good time. I don't care what other people do at events like that. I don't care who shows PDA to whom (unless it's pedo with a kid). Yet it's been my experiences that gay man couples have been more afraid to be so open about it.  OTOH lesbians have been more open about it.

It's just an observation. I don't care if anyone thinks I am gay or not. Before gays were allowed in the military there were some, I served and roomed with one in one command, we all knew about it and us enlisted folks really didn't give a damn. I've worked with them in jobs and knew them in college. And I also have a gay cousin on my mother's side and a lesbian cousin on my father's. That's how it goes. You just have to accept it, even if you can't understand. Just know that it's there.

And I've heard the old adage 'God isn't gay'. Well God isn't straight either. God isn't male or female - and Genesis says we are all made in God's image - whether it's sex, race, color, etc. God doesn't make junk.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

And I've heard the old adage 'God isn't gay'. Well God isn't straight either. God isn't male or female - and Genesis says we are all made in God's image - whether it's sex, race, color, etc. God doesn't make junk.

God doesn't play a part in my life, to be honest. Genesis, on the other hand - great band, back in the day.

I've worked with them in jobs and knew them in college.

It may seem like I'm having a go - I'm not. But all this "them"? We are one people, brothers and sisters. We mustn't let bigots divide us.

Your experiences are familiar. And there are worse experiences to have, but it's not all doom and gloom. Most of us just want a life without being told that we're subhuman and not deserving of equality. Obviously, I can't speak for all LGBT folks, as everyone has different experiences. I do respond to such threads as these, because it's always going to attract hate filled people. The kind of people who want us to keep a low profile and not make a fuss are possibly the worst. Pretending to tolerate us, just as long as we keep quiet.

I guess that's why we have safe spaces, like gay friendly clubs and pubs. So that, sometimes, we can be loud and proud. Of course, that annoys the kind of person who then angrily says "I thought you didn't want to be segregated" etc.

Anyway, back to the thrust of the topic - the refusal of the owners to rent the room. If the lads were intoxicated, or causing trouble - fair enough. But it appears that it was simply their orientation that caused the denial. In my book, that's prejudice.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

married hetro couple ok but not a married gay couple?

0 ( +2 / -2 )

And to those of us in the LGBTQIA community, 

I hope that this acronym gets added to the dictionary because it will definitely help me out of some tricky Scrabble spots.

I am also trying to work out what the IA stands for without googling it. I presume the Q is for 'querying' rather than 'queer'.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Toasted Heretic

Anyway, back to the thrust of the topic - the refusal of the owners to rent the room. If the lads were intoxicated, or causing trouble - fair enough. But it appears that it was simply their orientation that caused the denial. In my book, that's prejudice.

Exactly. If I ran a hotel like this it wouldn't matter to me one way or the other. Two consenting adults, go ahead. It's business. Rent a room. Just don't trash the place or stupid like that - and that goes for anyone. I wouldn't deny a room rental, it's business.

And I saw Genesis at my college campus on Memorial Day weekend 1992. That was one of the best shows I ever went to.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Ah_soToday 05:46 pm JSTAnd to those of us in the LGBTQIA community, 

I hope that this acronym gets added to the dictionary because it will definitely help me out of some tricky Scrabble spots.

I am also trying to work out what the IA stands for without googling it. I presume the Q is for 'querying' rather than 'queer'.

I've seen 'LGBTQQIA' with one 'Q' meaning 'queer' and the other meaning 'questioning'. Then there's 'LGBTQ+'.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Geez ,

If a Welshman turned up with his Sheep at a love Hotel and offers the excuse he's simply tired and was looking for a place to get some Kip, would they turn him away ? Unlikely.

And, if two Ladies Women turned up, proclaiming to be Sisters, saying that they saw the place being a cheap place to rest for an hour or two, they too would probably also be allowed in.

However, were two men, on the other hand, even if "Brothers" turned up - forget it! They're clearly Gay and the Hotel, being a place of "Good reputation", wouldn't want to tarnish their record... now would they !

The Hotel should get it's act together... ban the Sheep, everything else goes ;-)

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Toasted Heretic I guess that's why we have safe spaces, like gay friendly clubs and pubs. So that, sometimes, we can be loud and proud. Of course, that annoys the kind of person who then angrily says "I thought you didn't want to be segregated" etc.

Who says it's segregated? Everybody wants to be with people like them, people they can identify with, whom they have in common with.

Gay bars - just like 'Cheers', you want to go where everybody knows your name. Polk Street in san Francisco is a grand example. I've seen it, it's part of gay identity.

My home city has its Pride Parade around this time of year. Nothing wrong with it, although my city has turned it into a cash cow and a dollar bill. Commercialization of anything sucks.

And every time I've been to a Joan Jett concert (3X) it's been a 'girl's night out' and a 'lesbian pride night out'. Well every category + classification of people need their heroes and icons. As for Joan Jett - I know she loves + plays solid rock'n'roll and I like it, like it, yes I do. And so it goes.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Who says it's segregated? Everybody wants to be with people like them, people they can identify with, whom they have in common with.

To be fair, most LGBT clubs and bars I've been to over the years, have been inclusive. Not all, but most. As for things in common, sure. I'd say I have a lot in common with you - a love of music, for instance. It's not all ABBA and Elton John ;-)

1 ( +1 / -0 )

It's not all ABBA and Elton John ;-)

ABBA are straight and when I was in HS the Swedish girls made ABBA our guilty pleasure.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

ABBA are straight and when I was in HS the Swedish girls made ABBA our guilty pleasure.

I don't know about their orientation, but I do know they are popular right across the board.

Along with The Beatles, Chuck Berry and Krafwerk - probably one of the most influential pop acts there has ever been.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I suspect there is more to this story than is written here. Anyone who has frequented love hotels could see that.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

I suspect there is more to this story than is written here. Anyone who has frequented love hotels could see that.

I've frequented love hotels a lot, but I can say that even with that experience, I have no idea what it would be like to visit a love hotel with another man. So no, I don't see that.

The only perspective I have on the matter is from a gay (Japanese) friend who told me 'we aren't allowed at love hotels'.

I don't know how widespread that is, but I don't see how one's person's perspective as a heterosexual visiting love hotels would allow one to know what it is like to visit as a homosexual.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Maybe there should be a "back door" entrance for the Gay lovers to join their partner in love hotels ?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Maybe there should be a "back door" entrance for the Gay lovers to join their partner in love hotels ?

I laughed at the double entendre. But actually most love hotels have a discrete back entrance.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

This is news?

Aren't there more important issues to tackle in the world than this?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

So by your logic, two men going to a love hotel automatically raises suspicion of prostitution, but a 70+ year old man with a 20 year old woman (which is regularly accepted) doesn't?...Sorry doesn't pan out..

What’s so suspicious about that? The ageism here is uncalled for.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

@Wolkpack - when I'm 70+ ... I'd welcome being fit & healthy enough to escort a young Lady to a love hotel and walk out happy an hour later. Kudos to those who can.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@zichi - I'm happy to see you're keeping up-to-date on what's being displayed on the front-desks within love hotels... ;-) I guess you've taken the fast track upon your road to recovery :-D

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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