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Japan launches study to verify COVID vaccines' effects on citizens

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So you would be forgiven for assuming that the vaccine works differently on Asian people??

I’m probably not going to get the vaccine this time around even though its on offer.

I’d rather do an anti body test.

-27 ( +12 / -39 )

It is always good to collect as much data as possible. The more people who are loled at after their vaccine, the better. This will help doctors to understand more about the effects of the vaccine.

2 ( +16 / -14 )

@theperson

re: antibody test

having been very very sick last December with monstrous fever (live alone, no-one to call on, and could only crawl to the toilet the first 3 days, and was debilitated for 3 weeks) I have been thinking it was probably the C-thing. have been trying to find somewhere I can get an antibody test.... no joy so far out here in the sticks, even at a huge hospital in Kamogawa, an hour's train ride down the coast, so I hope you have better luck. perhaps if you are in a more populous area? in any case, they're offering me vaccination next month, so.....

18 ( +22 / -4 )

A broken ‘system’ or No system. Please take care of ‘yourself’ @jiji Xx 7:08am

“very, very sick last Dec, monstrous fever, crawl to the toilet the first 3 days, debilitated for 3wks, thinking it was probably the C... they're offering me vaccination next month,...” -

Apparently there is ‘little to none’ in the way help from an utterly backward and inefficient Japanese ‘system(?)’ .

6 ( +10 / -4 )

This study is so limited compared with what has already been done around the globe that it will not give any information of use, so, how about accelerating the vaccination efforts first and after the country reaches immunity other things can become a priority?

12 ( +22 / -10 )

No need to launch a special study. the results can be found and it is not good.

-22 ( +10 / -32 )

A study of 1,500 is not good enough. The results of trials and studies are good. Vic.m provides no proof do your own research

5 ( +10 / -5 )

snowymountainhell, it seems you don't understand the Japanese system. The Japanese system works well and according to design. It is designed to keep business going, it is designed to show that Japan is safe for the Olympics, it is not designed to detect coronavirus. It does what it is designed to do.

Well, to be honest, I suppose it doesn't do everything it was designed to do. It hasn't convinced the Japanese people the Olympics will be safe.

*“very, very sick last Dec, monstrous fever, crawl to the toilet the first 3 days, debilitated for 3wks, thinking it was probably the C... they're offering me vaccination next month,...” -*

Apparently there is ‘little to none’ in the way help from an utterly backward and inefficient Japanese ‘system(?)

8 ( +8 / -0 )

And the couldn't have started a study to test efficacy when they first rolled out the vaccine weeks ago because??

Good their doing it but yet another example of making it up as they go along.

Not like they didn't have 1.5 years to have considered and prepped for it......

8 ( +9 / -1 )

I think that the idea that Japanese are biologically different than people in other countries (e.g Korea, China) is not very helpful

19 ( +23 / -4 )

Just wait for it. This "study" will find that the vaccine is somehow flawed, and so all vaccinations must be halted until more local research is conducted.

3 ( +9 / -6 )

A bit of perspective about how useful the vaccines really are. I bet the government finds something similar

the absolute risk reduction (ARR), which is the difference between attack rates with and without a vaccine, considers the whole population. ARRs tend to be ignored because they give a much less impressive effect size than RRRs: 1·3% for the AstraZeneca–Oxford, 1·2% for the Moderna–NIH, 1·2% for the J&J, 0·93% for the Gamaleya, and 0·84% for the Pfizer–BioNTech vaccines.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanmic/article/PIIS2666-5247(21)00069-0/fulltext

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Enough already! Who on Earth at this point wants to sit out on the vaccine for 6 months to wait and see if they get sick just so some J-gov scientists and officials can say "anshin da ne" or "yokatta da ne".

Worst case scenario, the study comes out flawed and leads people to think they ought not take the vaccine.

Just take the darn thing!

5 ( +11 / -6 )

Not studying the effects of the vaccines would be completely irresponsible ! They follow protocol and there is nothing wrong with this.

These days, I personally think the worst is behind us, now at about 600K and we will reach the 1M vaccinations per day in June.

-5 ( +5 / -10 )

Of course it's important to study the effects of the current vaccines available for Covid, but at the same time, it should be clear that the vaccines are better than no vaccine.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

@n1k1

Did you read the comments or our fellow readers?

Your opinion seems to differ from them.

Following the Japanese tradition, your comment must be hammered down until agrees with the rest.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Four questions:

(a) what is the expected outcome

b) what will be done with the outcome

c) how will this study differ from other studies conducted in different countries abroad?

d) what is the purpose of the study. To stop the vaccination currently underway? Or to prevent further vaccinations in the future?

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Following the Japanese tradition, your comment must be hammered down until agrees with the rest.

But can you blame them ? We witnessed that Japan's academia is at a level comparable to Nigeria and now every mention of the word "study" raises eyebrows.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

what is the purpose of the study. To stop the vaccination currently underway? Or to prevent further vaccinations in the future?

Japan must simply verify that the products work as advertised and especially in contexts relevant to everyday life here. The results will I assume have impact on the SoE also border control.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

how will this study differ from other studies conducted in different countries abroad?

If it isn't the same it will be done few more times and if the results are still stubborn BioNTech and Moderna will have to fix new problems. That is about it

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Within 48 hours of receiving the FIRST shot, my elderly neighbor (otherwise very healthy octogenarian) developed pneumonia! Fortunately, his personal doctor knew just how to treat him and he quickly recovered. I can't mention the course of meds that he was given as this post would likely be deemed "off-topic".

I hope this study is expanded to collect a decent volume of data.

-4 ( +5 / -9 )

A bit of perspective about how useful the vaccines really are. I bet the government finds something similar

Since the main purpose of the vaccine is the prevention of complications and deaths, not of cases this is only interesting as a way to compare between vaccines, but not at all as a criticism of their efficacy.

The most important part is of course that the reduction of risk (even of cases in the general population, not in the most vulnerable segment) completely justifies the possible risks of immunizing. Vaccinating is still the logical choice, the problem is just what is the most efficient vaccine to use in a given environment.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

ummm yeah... should have been done BEFORE pumping it into everyone's bodies!

4 ( +7 / -3 )

@jiji

in any case, they're offering me vaccination next month, so.....

If you did had the C-thing (with symptoms), then there is no need for you to get the vaccine. You would already be more immune than anyone who only had the vaccinations.

I think that the idea that Japanese are biologically different than people in other countries (e.g Korea, China) is not very helpful

Or perhaps they just don't trust studies done abroad.

it will not give any information of use, so, how about accelerating the vaccination efforts first and after the country reaches immunity other things can become a priority?

Sounds like someone is worried that the information they will find will make many reconsider getting the vaccine. Deciding to take or pass on the vaccine should be an informed decision, so I'm glad they are doing their own investigation.

-1 ( +6 / -7 )

@thelonius

"Enough already! Who on Earth at this point wants to sit out on the vaccine for 6 months to wait and see if they get sick just so some J-gov scientists and officials can say "anshin da ne" or "yokatta da ne"."

Nobody wants to, but we all have to with the slow rollout.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Japan launches study to verify COVID vaccines' effects on citizens

The way this is worded makes it sound as if Japanese have unique bodies. (Unless that's what they think). This study should merely supplement our present knowledge of the vaccines' effects on humans. Yeap, Kyodo again.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

I’m half Japanese and half white so hmmm I guess they need to add me in the trial of effectacy so I can help the hafu find out in another haft a year from now

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

If you did had the C-thing (with symptoms), then there is no need for you to get the vaccine. You would already be more immune than anyone who only had the vaccinations.

One, he is explicitly saying that he is having trouble confirming the infection, Two, scientific data have strongly indicated vaccination produce a higher protective immune reaction than some natural infections, saying that anybody infected is "more protected" is not a valid conclusion.

Sounds like someone is worried that the information they will find will make many reconsider getting the vaccine. Deciding to take or pass on the vaccine should be an informed decision, so I'm glad they are doing their own investigation.

That is a mistaken conclusion that comes from not understanding statistical analysis of studies, making a smaller, less detailed, shorter study would indicate nothing against the much better evidence obtained from multiple multicentric studies already being done around the world. Even if the results were different that would most likely indicate noise from the smaller study, and would require to be repeated in a larger scale just to be able to be confronted with the higher quality data available. If that is the case it is irrelevant to do it in the first place, because of its size it can only confirm the bigger studies (with no real advantage) or it would be too small to disprove them. At this point it is either making a much bigger study or not making it at all in the first place.

1 ( +8 / -7 )

Seems silly.

The drugs are authorized for use by the general public by the government. Since they are "investigational" drugs authorized for emergency use, there is some risks. But there will soon be overwhelming data available in Japan from a sample comprising of millions of people from ages 12 yr and up.

Regardless of one's opinion on the safety of these drugs, global data is also pouring in daily on side effects, drug efficacy, and duration of effectiveness. And Japan has the benefit of actually making decisions on that data. So, speaking of risks and safety, the decision for a person in a Covid-19 high risk group will be very different that one in much lower risk groups based on vaccine data accumulating for 6 months globally.

A test group of 1500 people conducted now by a nation in almost last place for vaccine deployment is nothing but a political placebo. It's a cheap ploy in my opinion to show that caution and care is being practiced by bubbling LDP leadership.

Just like all other widely distributed medicines, the positives and negatives will likely turn out to be very close to what is advertised. However, just like any normal distribution curve there are the extreme cases which represent lower probability ranges that include severe side effects and death.

As an individual - regardless of nationality or ethnicity - your decision to take any popular medicine is always a risk / benefit assessment. Not much different that anything in life.

One thing is for sure, faith in the decision making process of national institutions has been shaken as a result of this covid-19 debacle. 1500 people added to the list just reinforces this.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

@thepersoniamnow

So you would be forgiven for assuming that the vaccine works differently on Asian people??

Vaccines and medications do work differently along the ethnic and gender lines.

For example, it's well known that 80% of J&J vaccine recipients who develop blood clotting are women.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

Vaccines and medications do work differently along the ethnic and gender lines.

For example, it's well known that 80% of J&J vaccine recipients who develop blood clotting are women.

Ok, and where's your support for your assertion that it differs on ethic lines?

3 ( +6 / -3 )

I question whether this is news, as in whether this study has news value at all. Of course the government should be collecting all kinds of data from recipients of the vaccine(s) as a matter of course.

Is the news really that they are unprepared to collect health effects data on anyone not part of the study, or from doctors not in the list? I detect nonsense.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

If you did had the C-thing (with symptoms), then there is no need for you to get the vaccine. You would already be more immune than anyone who only had the vaccinations.

Wrong.

Immunity from infections last around 8 months.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Kanta,

more local research, more locally produced vaccines in the future, more, and more, and more.

Wish they'd finally end all this b.s. and get going, the way other countries are!

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

hatsufredToday 07:59 am JST

A study of 1,500 is not good enough. The results of trials and studies are good. Vic.m provides no proof do your own research

If I was to show proofs which are many, this site would delete my post.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

When were these tests conducted? The day AFTER they got their first shot? Or 6 months after their second shot? That would definitely make a difference. Not to mention only testing 1500 people…….

1 ( +1 / -0 )

This just sows unnecessary doubt amongst Japanese. Who knows how long it will set back Japan's recovery. I heard the other day someone say they are waiting for a Japanese vaccine. Meanwhile other G7 countries are open or opening already.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Doesn’t that mean in reverse, that they still don’t even have data , but started to apply unknown vaccines?

0 ( +2 / -2 )

There is nothing new in this news. This is a basic process that is always done for vaccines.

Last time, a small survey was conducted as a matter of urgency. This time, the survey is to get more reliable information.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@funkymofo

The fact is that drugs can effect different races in different ways. Entero-Vioform was commonly taken in the West for the prevention of traveler's diarrhea, but in Japan as many as 30,000 people who took it suffered the brain and eye damage. The government banned the drug and the problem (called SMON for subacute myelo‐optic neuropathy) immediately disappeared.

That explains why the Japanese like to test things themselves, rather than rely on results from overseas that are not always applicable.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

so vaccination first and checking of "side effects" later...did I get it right?

what kind of experiment is this folks?

one more reason to stay away from it!

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

so vaccination first and checking of "side effects" later...did I get it right?

No you didn't.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

@Hello Kitty 321

Was not unique to Japan or Japanese. Was banned all over the world. Perhaps first detected in Japan though.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

One, he is explicitly saying that he is having trouble confirming the infection,

Yes, that is why I included the word “if”.

Two, scientific data have strongly indicated vaccination produce a higher protective immune reaction than some natural infections, saying that anybody infected is "more protected" is not a valid conclusion.

Yes, perhaps some natural infections, like some asymptomatic infections or false-positive PCR results. But he clearly had symptoms.

A number of reputable sources have claimed that the current data shows that natural infection offers slightly better protection than the vaccine.   

Wrong. Immunity from infections last around 8 months.

Wrong. You are probably referring to confirmation of detectable antibodies; that does not equal immunity. There are also memory lymphocytes, which are much longer lived and can possibly last a lifetime. For example, those who recovered from the first SARS-CoV, still have these and are therefore still immune today, after 18 years.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Yes, that is why I included the word “if”.

If your suggestions depends on the person not having the problem in the first place that is not exactly something useful.

How about a reference about the natural infection offering better protection? at this point that is not the medical consensus from the scientific data, if the experts opinions contradict yours it is much safer to listen to the people that deal with the disease in the first place.

https://www.jhsph.edu/covid-19/articles/why-covid-19-vaccines-offer-better-protection-than-infection.html

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

The news in the States as of yesterday is that a few more than 22,000 people are hospitalized with Covid-19, and almost all of those who had to be hospitalized are people who have not been vaccinated. Of the places over here that are still seeing high infection rates, they are all places that have full vaccination rates of less than 30%. That is a real world test that is worth thinking about.

As for reactions to the Pfizer shot, some have no reaction at all, and some, like myself, have a very strong reaction. Within seconds of getting my second shot back on March 1st, I had the worst asthma attack of my life. Still, I would gladly go through that again, for the relief of mind of knowing that I am almost certainly protected from the deadly Covid-19 virus.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

at this point that is not the medical consensus from the scientific data, if the experts opinions contradict yours it is much safer to listen to the people that deal with the disease in the first place.

Since you talk about medical consensus I expected actual data. But instead, you just provided a link to a report from someone at John Hopkins, stating the usual vaccine salesperson talking point:

Immunity from natural infection starts to decline after 6 to 8 months. We know that fully vaccinated people still have good immunity after a year—and probably longer.

With the 6-8 months, she was probably referring to confirmation of detectable antibodies. If she is such an expert, she should know that does not equal immunity. She should also be aware that those who recovered from the first SARS-CoV still have the memory lymphocytes that make them still immune today, after 18 years.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

These domestic studies are quite funny given a lot of participants are non-Japanese.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

With the 6-8 months, she was probably referring to confirmation of detectable antibodies.

I’ve bolder the keyword that indicates you are speculating as if it proves your point.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

*bolded

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Since you talk about medical consensus I expected actual data.

So you have no source for your conclusion that natural infection is safer? that means that yes, the experts opinion is simply much more likely to be true, your personal speculation is simply not enough to prove an expert is wrong.

If you think the scientific consensus is different from vaccines offering a better protection you can simply link to some reputable institution saying it, else you can only accept that it actually is the general opinion of the scientific and medical community.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Ooops, premature submit...

Well, what other reason would they have for pushing this deceptive narrative of the very predictable decreased antibodies equaling decreased immunity. Even virusrex knows this is not valid; I remember her early posts about how decreased antibodies is not a problem and that the innate immunity was more important. That was the only time I found any of her posts to be worthy of a positive vote.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

The news in the States as of yesterday is that a few more than 22,000 people are hospitalized with Covid-19, and almost all of those who had to be hospitalized are people who have not been vaccinated.

I've been saying all along that the rest of the world will have fixed their own virus problems, while the US is wallowing in disease due to the politicization of the vaccine by their leaders. Meanwhile in other countries that haven't been that stupid, they'll hit their vaccination targets, and their lives will go (back) to (the new) normal.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

One thing is that immunity does not solely depends on antibody, another completely different is that their reduction can be used as a surrogate to compare what produce a better immunity. If the vaccines make the body produce antibodies at high levels for a longer period than infection (even symptomatic) that can be validly said to reflect a better, longer lasting protection. That is why the scientific community have conclude it so.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

My daughter had WURS over Christmas 2020. She had her first vaccine last week, and sounded happy to get it. More weapons in the armo(u)ry?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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