Kishida promises boosters, new measures against Omicron

So assuming you do understanding the difference, can we agree any study on the efficacy of a vaccine using 'relative risk reduction' is ........ (what's the polite way to put it?) deeply flawed?

No, that is completely wrong, that is how every study about medical interventions is done, see? you should have seen the reference, it clearly explains why people thinking like that are deeply mistaken and end up repeating antiscientific propaganda.

Asking about things you want to understand is much better, here is a good explanation.

I don't need to see a link explaining it. I already know.

So assuming you do understanding the difference, can we agree any study on the efficacy of a vaccine using 'relative risk reduction' is ........ (what's the polite way to put it?) deeply flawed?

Also, do you know why they use a placebo group and a vaccine group in trials?

Do you know the difference between 'relative risk reduction' and 'abolute risk reduction' as it relates to vaccines?

Asking about things you want to understand is much better, here is a good explanation.

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-thelancet-riskreduction-idUSL2N2NK1XA

@virusrex

Do you know the difference between 'relative risk reduction' and 'abolute risk reduction' as it relates to vaccines?

Of course many experts agree with me, let’s see…

So when asked for scientific or medical institutions how many did you bring?

zero, not even one. Only

one preprint that has not been published in more than a year since it was released, which can clearly indicate the lack of quality of the research. The main problem of the study is that it assumes blindly that not making something obligatory means nobody will do it, which makes as much sense as saying that the japanese population do not wear masks because it has never made obligatory. (meaning no sense at all)

then yet again the same preprint, but somehow you think is a different one.

and finally another that CLEARLY contradicts what you say in their conclusions when it says that

"Implementing any NPIs (non pharmacological interventions) was associated with significant reductions in case growth in 9 out of 10 study countries, including South Korea and Sweden that implemented only lrNPIs"

So, thanks for proving yourself wrong I guess. Social distancing measures are very effective according to the source you brought and consider trustworthy. It is not like you are going to contradict something you brought yourself, right?

Virus

oh look, another one

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210107/Danish-study-suggests-local-lockdown-had-no-effect-on-SARS-CoV-2-infection-rate.aspx

Virus

Of course many experts agree with me, let’s see…

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210107/Danish-study-suggests-local-lockdown-had-no-effect-on-SARS-CoV-2-infection-rate.aspx

No evidence actually in that Bloomberg article, pure speculation , I want to see a proper peer review study

The article is proof that people do think Japanese are doing strong social distancing measures, no scientific study is necessary to prove exaclty this, that people attribute the Japanese conduct for the relative succes in controlling the pandemic. On the other hand you have provided no proof at all that lockdowns have no effect, or that they are worse than not doing it, but you keep repeating this claim, even if the experts do contradict you. So are you going to provide proof of it? at least some institution of science or medicine that supports what you say? or is it based exclusively on your authority?

No evidence actually in that Bloomberg article, pure speculation , I want to see a proper peer review study. You know, like you always demand from everyone.

Who is "they"? Who says that? You sound like you don't even live in Japan.

https://www.koreabiomed.com/news/articleView.html?idxno=12643

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-05-27/masks-hand-washing-helped-japan-skirt-virus-deaths-panel-says

it is terribly easy to find these kind of stories since last year, there is nothing impossible about most of the population keeping their distance and wearing masks in public. The exceptions that you base your opinion on are on a tiny scale compared with many other countries, it may surprise you but being in close proximity without talking, eating nor removing facemasks is not as risky as you would like to believe, or make other people believe.

A lab in China studying infectious viruses, linked to the Chinese military and breeding mice with characteristics similar to human lungs experiences a pandemic outbreak-not a coincidence in my book

Again, not a coincidence because that is the whole point of having a research institute in the region where respiratory diseases frequently jump from the wild to people. Your position is like being suspicious about an institute that studies bubonic plague in Madagascar after human cases are discovered, it is not a coincidence the cases are very frequent in the region the laboratory came later.

The experts in the West who enforced lockdowns are very expert then are they? Seen the deaths tolls from the virus and the damage caused by lockdowns?

The experts have the data to support their conclusions, and they do not make the kind of mistake that you do, where the countries that were more severely affected by the pandemic were the ones that were forced to take also the most severe measures to control it. If they say people in Japan have been social distancing in a degree impossible to see on occidental countries then your "facts" are only your personal opinion based on no objective information.

Virusrex

The experts in the West who enforced lockdowns are very expert then are they? Seen the deaths tolls from the virus and the damage caused by lockdowns?

Who cares about my recommendations, just stating facts. The vast majority did not stay in, did not social distance and not die. I never recommended people don’t vaccinate, please do not make out I said that again please.

If efforts had been made in the West to primarily protect the vulnerable and not lockdown we would be in a far better place without huge divisions in society.

That is just wishful thinking, for a disease that can easily be transmitted by asymptomatic people the experts opinion is that no protection of the vulnerable people is possible with widespread infection. The division is caused by rejection of logic and evidence because of personal benefit.

Even with Covid we had a better life in Japan than the majority of the world have without Covid, we should be grateful and do our but for ourselves, our family and friends and society.

The problem is that the better life in Japan is thanks to the vast majority of the people not listening to your recommendations and instead keeping appropriate distance and vaccinating because of a valid respect for the dangers of the infection.

However, the vast amount of money that was granted to the Wuhan Institute of Virology by the US NIH and the lab’s links to the Chinese military and the subsequent pandemic origin in Wuhan suggest suggest something other than coincidence.

Yes, it suggest the same thing that Research hospitals specialized in Mosquito borne infections on Philippines, Hendra virus labs on Australia or Institutes specialized in Ebola in Congo, it is not a coincidence the institutes are exactly in the region where the diseases appear frequently.

Considering the phylogeny of Omicron suggests it evolved directly from the original Wuhan strain (i.e., not other variants), I wonder if a good Samaritan at the WIV released it intentionally...

Contrary to what some posters here ‘think the jury is still out on the origins of Covid.

However, the vast amount of money that was granted to the Wuhan Institute of Virology by the US NIH and the lab’s links to the Chinese military and the subsequent pandemic origin in Wuhan suggest suggest something other than coincidence.

Also, why are the Chinese extremely strict about the spread of the virus that international travel has been reduced to almost zero?

Companies are relocating from China as staff cannot move and pilots at Cathy are quitting in droves!

Infractions regarding Covid result in the ‘perpetrators’ being paraded in the streets!

The Chinese know exactly what they are dealing with.

Thomas

Yes, it is almost normal. Viruses are part of life. Humans are an ideal host due to their need for social interaction. My life was normal apart from places closing earlier and some closing. In fact I found much of it preferable to life before. Shinkansen not packed, sightseeing places bereft of noisy tourists all crammed in.

Even has its plus and down side, we need to make the most of it, not stress out and panic about a possible Armageddon event which as we see did not occur.

Reality around is us all down to our own perception, if we see it negatively and in fear we stress, become ill and cannot function to our potential. If we take the other option and think positively we can always make the most out of any situation.

Even with Covid we had a better life in Japan than the majority of the world have without Covid, we should be grateful and do our but for ourselves, our family and friends and society.

There will be a peak in numbers in a few weeks, then they will fall as fast as they peaked.

This virus has evolved to be much weaker and more virulent which is needed for its longevity.

The governments are still pushing for boosters though they should only be given to the vulnerable and efforts should be made to vaccinate the poor nations rather than jab everyone every few months. The cost of this is huge and of course Pharma are pushing for this obviously as their agenda is purely to make money and they have, more than ever. However the tide is turning, people are less reluctant to continue having vaccines which proven to be infective at preventing spread of Covid.

If efforts had been made in the West to primarily protect the vulnerable and not lockdown we would be in a far better place without huge divisions in society. We are now seeing the damage of government actions especially to the children, their mental health, educational and physical health have taken a toll from draconian measures.

Let the last two years be a lesson that one size fits all does not work as the evidence shows. Governments should spend as much time and money, increasing health awareness, regarding nutrition, obesity and exercise.

We also have to be more aware of those with extreme views, whether Covid deniers or vaccine shills. These have a blinkered vision and cannot be flexible in the views, they claims base views on data and experts but only see what agrees with their mindset and agenda.

Joseph Stalin said, “Quantity has a quality all it’s own.” In the case of the Omicrom variant, there is a good chance of hospitals being overwhelmed again - even if individuals are at less risk.

I have been wrong about every wave so far in Japan. The exponential growth in infections didn’t appear to be happening in Japan as in the rest of the world. There were some excess deaths due to lack of hospital beds. These may never be quantified. But, overall we seem to be doing better than a lot of other countries.

With the pandemic fatigue evident in Japan during the Holidays, I hope we can dodge this bullet as well.

Yes!!! Omicron would be an ideal live attenuated virus vaccine

On the contrary, because it casues hospitalizations and even death of the infected people without even elevating the titers of antibodies against other variants as much as the currently available vaccines do. That alone is enough to prove that the symptoms it causes are not "milder" than what the vaccines cause, because if that were the case vaccines would run with as much hospitalizations as omicron causes, which is obviously not the case. This explains why not even one institution of science or health consider omicron "ideal" in any way, and instead call for people to be vaccinated to avoid the risks that come from it.

Considering the phylogeny of Omicron suggests it evolved directly from the original Wuhan strain (i.e., not other variants), I wonder if a good Samaritan at the WIV released it intentionally...

This is a double mistake, first because evidence points to Omicron being a derivative of Lambda (especially if including non-coding regions) and second because even if it was closer to the original strain that is no reason to suspect any kind of artificial development, on the contrary, the sheer number of peple being infected continously around the world is enough to provide millions of times more opportunities for the virus to appear naturally, the same as the original.

Science, real science and then just common sense! In our hands and in our minds we know it by innate intuition.

Science is the huge improvement humans developed when "innate intuition" proved to be terrible at the job of finding out how reality works, there is no rational argument that would make intuition better than science to find out ways to deal with the pandemic.

@virusrex, yes indeed by looking at the number of cases, it looks like the vaccines are doing a great job at stopping the pandemic!

They are, the same as previous vaccines for other infectious diseases, that reduced the risk of serious problems and left people with mild or asymptomatic infections. And this even against variants that were predicted from the very beginning to reduce the efficacy of the previous immunity, including from natural infection.

Studies made by pharmaceutical companies can not be taken as the only reference unfortunately.

Yes they can, when they are the only reference available, nobody says that they have to become dogma, but they definetely are a source of information and can be compared with other data when other people produce it, ignoring it just because is deeply antiscientific, as much as blindly trusting it.

This very sentence from the article highlights what I am talking about. The fearmongering is so clear. Read carefully. Why are worries growing?

Although COVID-19 cases and deaths have fallen lately in Japan, worries are growing about another “sixth wave” of infections because of the omicron variant.

Hello all and happy new year.

@virusrex, yes indeed by looking at the number of cases, it looks like the vaccines are doing a great job at stopping the pandemic!

I think it is fair to say after 1 year and 3 doses maybe it is better to give a chance to natural immunity.

Studies made by pharmaceutical companies can not be taken as the only reference unfortunately.

My colleague had been sick with Covid last 10 years and he is 4 times vaccinated, 2 sinopharm and 2 Pfizer 3 months ago.

Kishida pledges and promises full of empty air and nothing more.

Just looking at that picture you can see a bunch of ultra conservative ojajis dressing according to the fashion of 1926 and then you can imagine how much innovation such living fossils can bring.

Prayers, vows, wishes, urges... all that air could fill the Hindenburg. How about just just telling us what your administration is actually doing.

Science, real science and then just common sense! In our hands and in our minds we know it by innate intuition. The world is ablaze and in a buzz about Covid-19 and clearly under stress. Useless and contradictory information on a daily basis comes to us in a frenzy, but at this point we--all of us-- know the "vaccines" do work. This is clear. No doubts whatsoever. There is no vaccine and the Emperor wears no clothes. Why is the bar always and ever changing? I f you haven't grasped it by now, you never ever will. God bless you none the less as a I truly feel sorry for you. Ignorance is the cancer which has become your karma.

Natural vaccination with Omicron is a much better option than a booster!

This is false and not accurate.

As quoted from the CDC website as of Jan 5, 2022: "A systematic review and meta-analysis including data from three vaccine efficacy trials and four observational studies from the US, Israel, and the United Kingdom, found no significant difference in the overall level of protection provided by infection as compared with protection provided by vaccination; this included studies from both prior to and during the period in which Delta was the predominant variant [79]... A more recent analysis of data from a network of 187 hospitals in the United States found that, among more than 7,000 COVID-19–like illness hospitalizations whose prior infection or vaccination occurred 90–179 days beforehand, there was a 5.5 times higher odds of laboratory-confirmed COVID-19 among previously infected patients than among fully vaccinated patients [80] "

(Comparison of Infection- and Vaccine-induced Immune Responses, https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/vaccine-induced-immunity.html#anchor_1635546906501)

The main reason vaccinating the mass population is good is because it reduces and prevents hospitalization. There are only so many doctors and nurses and it's critical for the economy that healthcare remains readily available for those that need it most.

He promises but will he deliver? I'm not holding my breath.

My empty purse indicates exactly the same necessities , many many successful prayers, held promises and encouraging for startup, digital technologies etc. So if he needs my account data…lol

Natural vaccination with Omicron is a much better option than a booster!

Yes!!! Omicron would be an ideal live attenuated virus vaccine. It should provide robust broad long-lasting immunity against diverse variants. And the symptoms seem milder than the side effects of the current vaccines (according to the CDC data).

The less the government does, the better. Offer the the vaccines to whoever wants them, and get out of the way.

Considering the phylogeny of Omicron suggests it evolved directly from the original Wuhan strain (i.e., not other variants), I wonder if a good Samaritan at the WIV released it intentionally...

I am pro-vaccine but around me, I must admit that I don't know anyone among the hundreds of people I know who may have been long suffering from Covid. I just heard of grandpas and grandmas who died with it but where of age that is close (inferior but also over) to life expectancy.

What shall I conclude, with a scientific approach with great numbers ?

Personnally, I think I had covid-19 but at the right beginning and really suffered for a few months. But nowadays and for about over a year, not even one relationship of relationship of relationship seems to have had lasting effects from covid. And of course, some of them have not been vaccinated.

Sincerely, I start to think vaccination this time is more about an economical and political approach than a medical one.

And yes, if it is so contagious that even with a mask and following all guidelines you catch it, so be it.

PS : yesterday, I had my third shot. Feeling perfect of course.

The planned booster will be pointless because the cases will peak in about two weeks. Booster is not in two months. By then, everyone already got the virus.

“Jgovs measures are the laughing stock of the world.”

laugh as you wish. I don’t care. I don’t idolize politicians but so far I have enjoyed being in Japan during this difficult time.

Kishida obviously is not worried about the ‘fear’ of Omicron as wearing a mask doesn’t seem to be necessary for him…

So Pfizer did do the research thanks... but lets avoid the point that the vaccines aren't worth the needle they are injected by after 10 weeks

That is also false, for most of the population the protection from the is still adequate long after 10 weeks, it is only people under special circumstances that actually require boosting the immunity to be adequately protected against hospitalization by Omicron. Let me repeat this last point, people at specially high risk need a booster to protect them from the negative consequences of what you consider a replacement of the vaccines.

Also, Pfizer had nothing to do with Moderna's data.

@divinda,

This is about South Africa,

"The number of infections fell by roughly 30 percent to just under 90,000 for the week ending Dec. 25, down from some 127,000 in the prior corresponding period, government data show. The number of hospital admissions has also been significantly lower over the past 1½ weeks."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/12/31/south-africa-omicron-coronavirus-peak/

virusrexToday  09:05 am JST

I am sure that research was carried out or funded by pfizer...

If you have evidence that contradicts this you can present it without problems, if not the only valid conclusion is that the boosters increase the protection levels much more than what Omicron infection does (as expected because of the changes of antigenicity), also without data that proves the increase of the cross neutralizing titers because of the infection by Omicron are long lasting the expectation that they are short lived (the same as the cross neutralization produced from other variants against Omicron) is still the most likely conclusion.

Conspiracies for which you have no proof are irrelevant as arguments.

So Pfizer did do the research thanks... but lets avoid the point that the vaccines aren't worth the needle they are injected by after 10 weeks....

Nice Kishida.

But I will say no thanks to the booster shots.

I am sure that research was carried out or funded by pfizer...

If you have evidence that contradicts this you can present it without problems, if not the only valid conclusion is that the boosters increase the protection levels much more than what Omicron infection does (as expected because of the changes of antigenicity), also without data that proves the increase of the cross neutralizing titers because of the infection by Omicron are long lasting the expectation that they are short lived (the same as the cross neutralization produced from other variants against Omicron) is still the most likely conclusion.

Conspiracies for which you have no proof are irrelevant as arguments.

Such empty words. Aged people are already approaching 6 months since their second vaccination, some already over and still all he is doing is talking and promising to speed it up. Paperwork is required to send out the vouchers, as well as organisation on delivering the boosters. This needs time and can not happen overnight. and cannot start whilst he is still only talking about doing something that is not actually decided,

virusrexToday  08:41 am JST

So the 4.4 fold increase in immunity against Delta brought about by Omicron infection is less effective than the booster???

Yes, again, Pfizer's vaccine increase the antibody titers 25 fold, and moderna's up to 83 fold.

83 times is much higher than 4.4, so yes, anybody can say it with a straight face.

I am sure that research was carried out or funded by pfizer...

Along with the 10 fold decrease in titers after 10 weeks?? and then the requirement for a 4th shot...

oh yeh pfizer is on a winner there...

So the 4.4 fold increase in immunity against Delta brought about by Omicron infection is less effective than the booster???

Yes, again, Pfizer's vaccine increase the antibody titers 25 fold, and moderna's up to 83 fold.

83 times is much higher than 4.4, so yes, anybody can say it with a straight face.

That's a lot of "outliers"

Vaccines are not the only measure effective at controlling the pandemic, nearly univeral use of mask and limited contact between people allow for effective control, which means outliers that act only on personal convenience have less consequences, this is what is observed with other infectious diseases like polio or measles, antivaxxers ride on the efforts of the rest of the population and oubreaks are rare and controlled, except when too many of them congregate and localized spreading occurr, at those times the reaction of the public in general is also negative against the people that reject the vaccines.

Apparently we need some facts and numbers.

How many people are hospitalized for omicron symptoms? Not with omicron and non-symptomatic incidental to a separate admission to the hospital.

How many people are hospitalized with severe symptoms from omicron?

How many people, vaccinated or not, without compromised immunity have died from omicron?

Does anyone know or is the entire world just blowing smoke?

Where do you get these 4.4 fold increases in immunity from? @Sanjinonosebleed? Let me guess.....South Africa?

It has already been over six months since my last shot.

Where is my booster, Mr. K.?

virusrexToday  08:05 am JST

> you mean shorter lived than the 3 monthly booster requirement for vaccines???

Yes, shorter because of lower efficacy of cross neutralization and antigenic stimulus, that is the whole point. If you want to compare the efficacy of vaccines to variants they were not made of, then you have to also do this for Omicron, seeing how the immunity for other variants (both from infection and vaccination) is not effective against Omicron it is logical to expect the opposite as well, subpar neutralization because of low antibody titers that becomes completely insufficient against other variants soon.

So the 4.4 fold increase in immunity against Delta brought about by Omicron infection is less effective than the booster???

wow you can't say that with a straight face surely???

Additional measures against the Omicron variant and further infections (a new Cameroon variant just identified) - might be appreciated, but measures to support the Small- and Medium-sized industries, as well as the large pool of freelance and part-time workers who underpin factories, service industries, hospitality and entertainment venues, and shops, who have lost income would be appreciated too.

Also, amongst the general public I don't see the type of discrimination, vitriol and societal division that is plaguing other societies.

Yes, that is a consequence from everybody doing their part with the measures proved to be effective against the infection, it gets controlled and the outliers that refuse to follow the science have much less consequences.

Yeah, infection by Omicron results in a higher chance at hospitalization only when compared to not having any Covid at all.

No, compared with being vaccinated, which is what the comment is about, a "natural" vaccine that comes with higher risks is not better.

you mean shorter lived than the 3 monthly booster requirement for vaccines???

Yes, shorter because of lower efficacy of cross neutralization and antigenic stimulus, that is the whole point. If you want to compare the efficacy of vaccines to variants they were not made of, then you have to also do this for Omicron, seeing how the immunity for other variants (both from infection and vaccination) is not effective against Omicron it is logical to expect the opposite as well, subpar neutralization because of low antibody titers that becomes completely insufficient against other variants soon.

Jgovs measures are the laughing stock of the world....

Let them laugh...

Because Jgovs measures brought people hospitalized with severe symptoms nationwide in Japan to just 54! (Among 125.000.000).

And we all live here an almost normal life since the beginning of the pandemic, without any serious Lockdowns.

So let them laugh...

Promises are not going to protect people.

Jgovs measures are the laughing stock of the world.

That would be false, not only infection by the omicron variant is much more likely to result in hospitalization

Yeah, infection by Omicron results in a higher chance at hospitalization only when compared to not having any Covid at all.

But with Omicron the chance of hospitalization really only increases for those who are immune-compromised, obese, elderly... and those who just happen to be in the hospital for something else (often the majority of "hospitalization cases" were when someone was in the hospital for a broken foot or something and they did a Covid test and found that this person also had Omicron but didn't even realize it).

Look at South Africa with Omicron. Widespread infection to the point of near herd immunity. A vaccination rate of only 30%. Hospitals doing just fine without being overwhelmed.

virusrexToday  07:33 am JST

Natural vaccination with Omicron is a much better option than a booster!

*That would be false, not only infection by the omicron variant is much more likely to result in hospitalization, the immune response against it has not even been characterized, going by what is observed from mild symptomatic or asymptomatic *infections for other variants it is likely the immunity is short lived, specially against other variants.

A "natural" vaccination with much higher risks and much lower benefits is not better.

you mean shorter lived than the 3 monthly booster requirement for vaccines??? Oh dear looks like the truth really IS out there...Time to start looking for a new job...

What about the humility of not wearing a mask and a penguin suit with pin stripe trousers ?

A very dramatic and serious sensational announcement of a new capitalism policy and a second founding with proactive steps.

But how will Kishida achieve all this and dodge the revolving chair to stay in power ?

Mission impossible !

Natural vaccination with Omicron is a much better option than a booster!

That would be false, not only infection by the omicron variant is much more likely to result in hospitalization, the immune response against it has not even been characterized, going by what is observed from mild symptomatic or asymptomatic infections for other variants it is likely the immunity is short lived, specially against other variants.

A "natural" vaccination with much higher risks and much lower benefits is not better.

Why?

Natural vaccination with Omicron is a much better option than a booster!