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Japan considers transforming helicopter destroyer into aircraft carrier

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With the angled flight deck, catapults and arresting gear to be installed, just for flight operations, it might be easier and cheaper to build one from scratch.

-7 ( +5 / -12 )

With or without Article 9, Japan has the right to defend itself just like every other nations. It’s natural law.

Japan’s current constitution is invalid because it was written by a foreign occupier, the US, forced on the Japanese people by violating Japan sovereignty.

It’s time Japan rearmed and stop relying on the US for its security.

-4 ( +14 / -18 )

Anyone surprised?

This was in the works before they even began the build.

13 ( +15 / -2 )

re: Japan’s current constitution is invalid because it was written by a foreign occupier, the US, forced on the Japanese people by violating Japan sovereignty.

It’s time Japan rearmed and stop relying on the US for its security.

Go back and read the correct version of history, and you will find that it was not the US who wrote the constitution but multiple liberated countries ruled by force occupation by Japan. As for rearming, too late, Japan is well underway for years, but as for the security you don't want...please do you even know the costs of maintaining a fully 1st class military?  I seriously doubt it.  This is not about picking grandfathers' old outdated firearm or sword...wrong time wrong generation. Besides have you thought about those liberated countries just itching for Japan to taste their steel? hmmm..

-7 ( +5 / -12 )

This is nothing but good news for Republic of China, Philippines, Vietnam and the US Navy VII fleet.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

@wanderlust

 The F-35B is a short take-off and vertical-landing aircraft, no catapults, arresting gear, or angled flight deck needed.

20 ( +20 / -0 )

In light of growing threats this makes absolute sense and is probably long overdue. Japan has the right to defend itself and sometimes the best defence is a good offence!

11 ( +15 / -4 )

Here's an idea for when China complains in spades about Japan arming its self, tell China to stop building a war footing on coral reefs just off the coast of the Philippines for starters. China is to blame for this and only China can turn back the clock. Remove all weapons of war, radar, etc., hand over the island to the Philippines and go back to China. China, it was never your land to begin with!!! Shame on you!

9 ( +13 / -4 )

The Tag "Helicopter Destroyer" is a mis-nomer used by govt. to avoid negative reactions from the anti-offensive groups.

For all intents and purposes the current ships are aircraft carriers (a helicopter is an aircraft), but with the purchase of the F-35B's this will be confirmed.

As middleoftheroad said, the F-35Bs are vertical lift off fighter jets , and will no doubt be directly suited to the heli-carriers.

Of course the govt & military already know this, and are just feeding out a soft plan to a touchy populace.

And this Offensive vs Defensive stuff is nonsense. All military in Japan can switch to Offensive Capability at the blink of an eye.

The F-35B acquisitions will enable it World Class offense, no matter what the spinners say.

And a link to a F-35Bs "no need for a full blown aircraft carrier".

www.youtube.com/watch?v=zW28Mb1YvwY

10 ( +10 / -0 )

The F35B is the troubled child of the F35 program. It is widely recognized as needing the most work. Still i think versatility is a good idea if it doesnt involve compromsing core capabilities of the vessel.

I think Australia should do the same. Convert our two helicopter carriers for the f35 with a view to future US and Euro fighters and build 2 more straight up helicopter carriers in Australia. 1 fighter/helicopter carrier each for east and west coast based in the east and western naval ports.

10 ( +10 / -0 )

China has today confirmed it is build ing its 3rd aircraft carrier. It will be bigger than the previous 2 and may be equipped with the Electromagnetic Aircraft Launch System (only USS Gerald R. Ford has it now). It also says in the future it will develop nuclear powered carrier. Aircraft carriers are offensive weapons. Japan's reaction, which may not be a good one, is justified.

12 ( +12 / -0 )

They are actually 'submarine-killing helicopter carriers', despite the confusing misnomer.

It will be interesting to see whether they choose to install a catapault or a ski jump. The F35 B is limited to how much weight it can carry, especially if using VTOL capacity. Considering its payload shortcomings, it would probably fair to say that the F35 B is more of a defensive role aircraft than the F35 A, and the converted carrier will not be an "attack aircraft carrier" as in the article, but a "defense aircraft carrier" for the many small outlying islands of Japan.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

Japan is justified in taking this course of action.

If Japan and Australia get together to upgrade their helicopter carriers for fixed wing flight it may reduce the overall costs for both countries. This could help in the future for using each others ports for repairs if required.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

They do not need a catapult for the F-35 Carrier version.

The British newest carriers are 280m long and have a ski ramp at the front. All returning F-35s at present land vertically on it, coming in sideways(from the left), or very slow approach into a hover.

Hence this ship ship will be well suited to the F-35 wth an upgrade deck that can handle the engine exhaust heat.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

China has ZERO days combat experience with deep water naval vessels and aircraft carriers.

The US wrote the book on carrier warfare and has been engaged in carrier based warfare almost non-stop for the past 70+ years.

China has had a long way to go to be even in the same league... pretty ‘toys’ and uniforms are no match for combat experience. That has been proven hundreds of times since Ancient Greece and earlier....

5 ( +7 / -2 )

If Japan and Australia get together to upgrade their helicopter carriers for fixed wing flight it may reduce the overall costs for both countries. This could help in the future for using each others ports for repairs if required.

Good to share experiences on the conversion process for sure. Obviously different designs, one native Japanese tech and the Aus design is originally Spanish? Not sure im right about that. Recent agreements for port access and ammunitions is very welcome

5 ( +5 / -0 )

While it is true America has the experience in Naval warfare and carrier operations. It is well known that America does not at present maintain planes and ships at the required levels. Spare parts are unavailable to keep the maximum number of planes operational and training in the navy has fallen well behind as was shown with the investigations into the two instances of US destroyers colliding with civilian ships in the past two years. In many area's of the US military its personnel are under increasing strain to maintain performance and operational ability. This fact decreases the advantages that experience brings. Burn out is a reality and unless the trend is reversed with more resources and better planning then it will only get worse. In addition there are too many eggs in the F35 basket. Dedicated aircraft for specific mission types are needed. Russia and China continually develope this type of air force based on the US experiences in WWII and up to the 1990's. America has stopped investing in the philosophy of mission specific type aircraft. The F35 will excel at some mission types and fail miserably at others.

China is not as disadvantaged as some may think. This necessitates Japan modifying its Helicopter Destroyers and trying to ensure it has more options if needed.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

Good to share experiences on the conversion process for sure. Obviously different designs, one native Japanese tech and the Aus design is originally Spanish? Not sure im right about that. Recent agreements for port access and ammunitions is very welcome

Much of the conversion is strengthening the flight deck for the exhaust heat from vertical landings. An expensive process that can be perhaps cheaper if that aspect is worked on together.

Clearly the internal structures are different so ammunition stores, fuel and repair mechanisms on board would be quite different as would any radar upgrades that may be needed.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Where is India"s carrier program at? Any way we can share experience, share useful knowledge with India in the spirit of the Quad and generally improving relations, military to military ties.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Japan should help Taiwan to be better armed too, as for example by selling it advanced diesel subs and the technology.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

This annoucement is somehow nosense. The VTOL aircraft can damage the flight deck. But its as easy as adding some steel sheets over the deck and welding them together. In one area. Maybe add some insulation underneath. But That can be done in 1 day.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Really promising news to read. Japan absolutely has the right to defend herself. The only people to disagree are PRC and there supporters. It is super expensive to develop aircraft carrier from scratch. So adapting a helicopter carrier is a genius idea. Whoever in the Ministry of Defense thought outside the box on this should be given big promotion! I look forward to the completion.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

I can think of at least 2 or 3 countries that could use a pacifist constitution. That being said, self-defence is inherent, but if countries don't listen to the UN or multilateral treaties delineating borders (including water borders), a lot of conflicts will break out in the name of self-defence.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

It is much better to invest in cruisers, frigates and destroyers, even submarines than large extremely vulnerable carriers, unless an invasion is on sight.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

No need for angled decks or catapaults as others have said, vertical landing is rough on the deck surface but that can be ameliorated as on the QE & P of W carriers. There is the difficulty of having to dump expensive unused munitions so as to land vertically safely, but the RN have already found a solution to that, which I believe the USN are adopting for deck landing of F35b’s on to other types of ships than aircraft carriers.

China and NK’s aggressive expansion of their offensive capabilities as well as China’s increasingly aggressive international posture is what is forcing Japan and other regional militaries to increase their capabilities.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

All this is pure farce!

Piss off China enough and it will start to use its nuclear deterrent and then so will others...

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

Kim Jong UnfollowToday  03:46 pm JST

With or without Article 9, Japan has the right to defend itself just like every other nations. It’s natural law.

Japan’s current constitution is invalid because it was written by a foreign occupier, the US, forced on the Japanese people by violating Japan sovereignty.

It’s time Japan rearmed and stop relying on the US for its security.

Nonsense. US forces in Japan are there under invitation, As the host country Japan can throw them all out by giving one year's notice. Japan can not rely 100% on itself alone, as can no other US ally in the region because the US is the largest military power in the world with nuclear capability and therefore the only credible deterrent to nations which seek to advance their territorial control over smaller weaker ones. The days of WWII Militarism are over. The JSDF have a major role in securing and maintaining peace in the region together with Japan's allies.

rgcivilian1Today  04:03 pm JST

Go back and read the correct version of history, and you will find that it was not the US who wrote the constitution but multiple liberated countries ruled by force occupation by Japan. As for rearming, too late, Japan is well underway for years, but as for the security you don't want...please do you even know the costs of maintaining a fully 1st class military? I seriously doubt it. This is not about picking grandfathers' old outdated firearm or sword...wrong time wrong generation. Besides have you thought about those liberated countries just itching for Japan to taste their steel? hmmm..

More nonsense. The US, UK, Australia, USSR were not occupied by Japan and liberated, and they had the most influence on the constitution. There is no "liberated" country that is "itching for Japan to taste their steel". All Southeast Asian nations support Japan's remilitarization in combination with the US presence as a counter balance to Chinese expansion.THe US. UK, Australia, EU supports Japan. The Republic of China (Taiwan) which was actually occupied during WWII supports it. China (PRC) does not support it but they didn't exist until 4 years after WWII ended. And South Korea was part of Japan from 1910 and throughout WWII and only became "liberated" through historical revisionism. So what "liberated" countries are seeking revenge?

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Actually this is just smoke and mirror to distract from the real prize which is the extra 100 F-35s that the defense ministry has announce to acquire along with this news.

Basically this is the deal Abe had struck with Trump so Trump will not make true to his threat on placing tariffs on Japan.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

That the Izumo class would eventually carry aircraft was common knowledge from even before launching. Where by the way the USN was present and the band played "Anchors Away" right behind the "Gunkan March". USMC Ospreys have already carried out landings and storage aboard the Izumo. Only two nations have historically used Carriers decisively and that is the United States and Japan going back over 70 years ago. Unlike China neither are playing catch up.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

OssanAmericaToday 10:59 pm JST

That the Izumo class would eventually carry aircraft was common knowledge from even before launching.

One problem with this scenario is JMSDF doesn't have jet fighter pilot and JASDF has problem fill the pilot's seat as it is and are not eager to lend the already thin roster.

It's going to take years to train pilots to take off a ship even if they are qualified and I doubt JASDF will lend pilot just to train them to take off and land the plane.

Like I said they are short on pilots as it is.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Japan can do whatever it wants and spend as much money as they want, but they will never be able to defeat China. The United States Military who cannot even defeat a bunch of goat herders in Afghanistan cannot defeat China. The best case scenario would be a stalemate with major damages in both countries but more so in Japan than China. With a shrinking and aging population in Japan, who is going to be manning these battleships and flying these planes? If China ever decides to make a sudden and all-out attack on Japan then it is game over. If they attack on a major U.S. Holiday or the day of the Super Bowl, then by the time U.S. Forces report to duty it is game over.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

Constitutionally and legally speaking, Japan is forbidden to develop offensive weapon systems. However, the rapid development of technology lowers the outlaw barrier as to what constitutes offense capability. If Japan indeed needs the capability, the best approach would be to reach out to China and Koreas to ask for understanding and make a public statement that the capability never will be used to attack neighbours whom Japan still repents. Anyway, in not a distant future, Japan, Koreas and China will form a United States of Northeast Asia.

-10 ( +1 / -11 )

The honorable Japaneses self defense department is going to take significant decision to modernize her helicopter carrier to covert as a full time conversational powered air craft carrier due to increase recent Chines military threat over the Asian pacific region as well as to strengthen self defense capabilities and security to make a new era.....

0 ( +0 / -0 )

This is not actually a good news for Japan, because 100 F-35 purchases would have to siphon off money away from the F-3 program. In other word, Japan's indigenous combat aircraft industry is finished.

@Matt Hartwell

I think Australia should do the same. Convert our two helicopter carriers for the f35

The Australian Canberra class is too short for the F-35B operation. An F-35B operating carrier must have least a 240 m long flight deck for an efficient flight operation. Any shorter than this and the carrier can send off only one F-35B at a time instead of two.

The Izumo class was specifically sized around this F-35B operational requirement. 

@nandakandamanda

It will be interesting to see whether they choose to install a catapault or a ski jump.

Nope. Not happening.

@xin xin

Japan should help Taiwan to be better armed too

Any face Chinese retaliations? All those Toyotas and Hondas up in flame again on the streets of China?

@Ganbare japan!

Really promising news to read.

Japan's neighbors are actually celebrating this news, believe or not. This news means the certain death of the F-3(The money to buy 100 F-35s must come from somewhere), and Japan will have lost its ability to develop and built fighter jets while Chinese J-20 and Korean KF-X take to the skies in the next decade.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

AkieToday  12:19 am JST

Constitutionally and legally speaking, Japan is forbidden to develop offensive weapon systems. However, the rapid development of technology lowers the outlaw barrier as to what constitutes offense capability. If Japan indeed needs the capability, the best approach would be to reach out to China and Koreas to ask for understanding and make a public statement that the capability never will be used to attack neighbours whom Japan still repents. Anyway, in not a distant future, Japan, Koreas and China will form a United States of Northeast Asia.

Not Akie. Japan is disobeying its constitutional prohibitions because the People's Republic of China is forcing the situation. For trying to annex by military means territories that are not theirs. At least those are the threats they publicly announce.

Japan only wants to defend what is its own. And I keep saying that Article 9 is obsolete to this day.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Would be nice to retool it as a party boat... but noooooooo...

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

This is really good news. China is and is becoming a threat to regional security that will require the efforts of all major players in that part of the world - Japan, US, Australia, S. Korea all included.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

TriringNov. 27  11:06 pm JST

OssanAmericaToday 10:59 pm JST

That the Izumo class would eventually carry aircraft was common knowledge from even before launching.

One problem with this scenario is JMSDF doesn't have jet fighter pilot and JASDF has problem fill the pilot's seat as it is and are not eager to lend the already thin roster.

It's going to take years to train pilots to take off a ship even if they are qualified and I doubt JASDF will lend pilot just to train them to take off and land the plane.

Like I said they are short on pilots as it is.

Of course the JSDF in correlation with the acquisition of new equipment and assets are going to have to restructure their branches and training programs as well. You can rest assured that just as the JGSDF Amphibious Unit trained with the USMC in San Diego, prospective F-35B pilots from Japan will be training with the US Navy, probably FL or TX. Whether Japan will keep it's branches the way they are, or whether the JMSDF aviation units will be expanded to include F-35B and MV-22 pilots will have to be seen. But I believe it will be done.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Britain's Invincible carrier was 204 meters long and had no problems carrying Harrier jump jets.

They fought in the Falklands and fought well.

The Izumo is 248 m long; It WILL BE ABLE TO CARRY F-35B's!!!

Don't know why JT "experts" carry on believing that this ship needs sky ramps, arrest gears, angled flight decks, catapults, or Untie Matilda's help!!!

This ship was designed specifically to house the F35-B, as already disclosed by Japanese officials!!!

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Aircraft carriers are not for self defense. Not surprised anyway, we all said they would change it

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Wolfpack, the chance of a war between Japan and China is much smaller than zero, I will bet with 127 million heads. On the other hand, a war between Japan and Australia is larger than anything you can imagine.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

@ Peeping_Tom

Britain's Invincible carrier was 204 meters long and had no problems carrying Harrier jump jets.

Harrier's minimum take off length was 150 m.

The F-35B's minimum take off length is 183 m.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

There is no way that Japan will fight another war in Northeast Asia, 1.6 billion Northeast Asians simply will not let it happen. There is no way that Japan will fight another war in Southeast Asia, 1.8 billion Southeast Asians will not let it happen. The Closest possible war is then in Australia, though it is just a possibility.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

Of course the JSDF in correlation with the acquisition of new equipment and assets are going to have to restructure their branches and training programs as well. You can rest assured that just as the JGSDF Amphibious Unit trained with the USMC in San Diego, prospective F-35B pilots from Japan will be training with the US Navy, probably FL or TX. Whether Japan will keep it's branches the way they are, or whether the JMSDF aviation units will be expanded to include F-35B and MV-22 pilots will have to be seen. But I believe it will be done.

The F-35a will all be operated by the ASDF.

The most probable solution would be to provide supplemental trading to the Izumo ATCs and attach an ASDF air operations commander as a counterpart to the Izumo’s SWO.

ASDF helicopters already participate in routine drills aboard helocarriers; so the coordination mechanism is already in place.

Read the manga Carrier: Ibuki (空母いぶき). The first few chapters deal with this very issue. The technological aspects are also very well researched by the writer, Kawaguchi Kaiji, who is a huge military buff.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

@BeerDeliveryGuy

Any sort of F-35B STOVL carrier is simply a waste of money, it is not survivable in modern naval combat without the air support(Refuel tanker, AWACS) from near by ground bases. But if you have nearby ground bases, why bother wasting money on some floating missile shooting targets?

So any military expert would oppose the notion of some sort of fake aircraft carrier like Izumo; if you want an aircraft carrier, go all the way and have regular carriers. Otherwise it is a waste of taxpayer's billions.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Anyway, in not a distant future, Japan, Koreas and China will form a United States of Northeast Asia.

Given the fact South Korea likes to use historical grievances against Japan every two seconds for political gain, I think the possibility of a United Northeast Asia is about as remote as ever and even more remote considering how authoritarian China is becoming.

This is really good news. China is and is becoming a threat to regional security that will require the efforts of all major players in that part of the world - Japan, US, Australia, S. Korea all included.

I hold out hope for the Quad personally. To me, it is a very logical grouping of countries based on democratic values in the Indo Pacific and combined, carries tremendous weight. But its going to take a real desire on behalf of ordinary people in each country to talk up the potential of this relationship, to seek out more people to people ties between the countries. From an Australian perspective, I want to see more Japanese, Indian and American cultural festivals, even seemingly inconsequential stuff like food festivals. A four way sporting contest, where each country picks a sport might be interesting. We need to move the idea of this relationship from something that occupies the minds of the elites in each country to something that enters the every day psyche of ordinary people.

@Samit Basu

The Australian Canberra class is too short for the F-35B operation. An F-35B operating carrier must have least a 240 m long flight deck for an efficient flight operation. Any shorter than this and the carrier can send off only one F-35B at a time instead of two.

Goes to show how much I know lol. I wasn't aware of the length issues. Oh well, maybe Australia should buy 2 of those spanking new Queen Elizabeth carrier designs from the U.K. BAE is already investing in ship building facilities in Australia for the Type 26 sub hunters we are buying, so its a semi-logical extension. We can keep the Canberra class then for the purposes intended.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Just want to add following up from this previous comment that it should not be interpreted as anti South Korea. I have absolutely no problem with Koreans and want very strong ties between Aus & South Korea, but it just irks me that the elites in South Korea seem intent on causing friction between Japan and South Korea when the goal should be to move on. People have spoken about a Quad + 1. That plus one could be South Korea, it would seem logical, I also like the idea of Thailand since I think the potential in the India/Thailand relationship is strong given religious foundations.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Matt Hartwell, hahaha, you are not a northeast asian, are you ? Japan, Koreas, China never separated since there is history. NK and SK are uniting, do you know why ? The relationship between SK and Japan are much deeper and closer than you ever know. Japanese mass emigration to China by millions just happened not long ago, and it will happen again regardless Japan sinks or not. During the war against the traitor Taiwan govt, 200000 Japanese soldiers joined PLA, you don't know that either, do you ? China will not fight Japan, it is in the peace treaty, and in the blood. Instead, China has the responsibility to protect Japanese, when needed.

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

Matt Hartwell, hahaha, you are not a northeast asian, are you ? Japan, Koreas, China never separated since there is history

They are separated. Look at a map for heavens sake.

NK and SK are uniting, do you know why ?

Because they are both Korean? LOL. And of course a bunch of other political, military etc issues which can hopefully be resolved.

The relationship between SK and Japan are much deeper and closer than you ever know. Japanese mass emigration to China by millions just happened not long ago, and it will happen again regardless Japan sinks or not.

Mass immigration hey, really? Evidence? When?

During the war against the traitor Taiwan govt, 200000 Japanese soldiers joined PLA, you don't know that either, do you ?

No I didnt know that. If its true or not is anyone's guess given your other extremely dubious assertions. Anyone want to clarify Akie here?

China will not fight Japan, it is in the peace treaty, and in the blood. Instead, China has the responsibility to protect Japanese, when needed.

Maybe they will, maybe they won't. Scouts motto, always be prepared.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Akie, not sure about a United States of Northeast Asia, but perhaps a PU, Pacific Union, somewhat similar to the EU?

Although European countries fought each other for many centuries, there is no danger of war within Europe now at all.

There is however an ever-present danger of war between many of the countries in Asia,  aprickly atmosphere, and in the absence of any strong visionary leaders all they seem to be able to do is increase their military readiness.

By the way, Japan would never want to 'defeat' China, but she would certainly want to be able to protect herself robustly against any threat of attack or incursion by North Korea, Russia, China, etc.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

AkieToday 06:33 am JST

Wolfpack, the chance of a war between Japan and China is much smaller than zero, I will bet with 127 million heads. On the other hand, a war between Japan and Australia is larger than anything you can imagine.

Once again wishful thinking. No basis for your comment as it is obvious Japan and Australia are moving closer together while China moves further away from everyone with its actions and militaristic buildup and threats in international waters.

Your dream for a "united states of Northeast Asia" would need one of two things to happen. China turns democratic and rejects a one party system of government. Or Japan and South Korea reject democracy and adopt the Chinese single party Communist leadership. Realistically neither scenario will occur but if I needed to chose the most likely it would be the collapse of the single party rule in China.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

@Samit Basu

The Australian Canberra class is too short for the F-35B operation. An F-35B operating carrier must have least a 240 m long flight deck for an efficient flight operation. Any shorter than this and the carrier can send off only one F-35B at a time instead of two.

A 10-20 second delay to launching a second plane is still acceptable. A well trained crew will adapt and get the job done.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

China is not democratic. Names and words without meaning. Speak out against the government and disappear. No country will give up democracy for the Chinese communist party. NONE!

This is why other nations build up their defenses so that they don't have to submit to China or anyone wanting to take their sovereignty away. They have freedom to change their leaders by a vote of the people. When China becomes enlightened to real freedom and renounces the one party rule, not only will Asia rejoice, but the world will too. Until then your words ring hollow.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Peter14, the way you talked about democracy is the biggest anti-democracy talk. Chinese people picked their leaders with their blood and lives, not just a piece of paper. Democracy is about people, not about vote, though Chinese do vote.

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

Peter14, divide the world and the people with democracy is not democracy.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

Strangerland, China is called people's republic of China, not emperor's republic of China; China has the biggest party in the world, and the govt is the highest approval rated; China has the policy to serve people, not serve the president; China has lifted 1.2 billion people out of poverty in 50 years. If China is not democracy, by definition, then what is democracy ? To starve people ? to depress people ? to tax people ?

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

China is called people's republic of China, not emperor's republic of China

Next you're going to try to tell me that means that the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is really Democratic. Or a Republic. Or for the people.

You can try to point at dog poop and tell me that's called a rose, and I'm going to laugh in your face. Like when you try to tell me that China is democratic.

If China is not democracy, by definition, then what is democracy ?

The answer to that is not a secret... outside of China. I'd bet a dollar to a donut the Great Firewall will block your searches to find out though. So I sympathize with your ignorance, as your country is forcing it upon you.

So as to make sure that your overlords don't block this page, I'll answer for you in a way that maybe will let it past the censors:

A democracy is something very, very different to what you have in China.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

No surprise at all!

They wanted it from the beginning, now they make it public.

Right, increase your army (ooops, sorry SDF) and expand where ever and when ever.

Waste more money and what will be next?

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

@Peter14

A 10-20 second delay to launching a second plane is still acceptable

It takes more than 20 seconds to put the second F-35B in launch position after the first one is launched if the deck isn't long enough. 

Blame it on Lockheeed's engineering failing for this, the F-35B was originally spec-ed to have a minimum take off length of 150 m, but this was increased to 183 m after the weight increased and the take off performance decreased. So all ships designed to this original 150 m take off length were screwed, including the original Hyuga class.

The Izumo class was resigned to this revised deck length spec, but you can have a regular CATOBAR carrier if you stretched the ship a little more, so what's the point of having an F-35B carrier?

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

It takes more than 20 seconds to put the second F-35B in launch position after the first one is launched if the deck isn't long enough.

In an emergency they can use vertical launch and use the six positions that the helicopters use for their vertical launches. Yes with less payload but it can still be done.

Also the second plane can be at 90 degrees from the launching F35 and only needs to be 10 meters away when using the ski ramp. It can with its own power and deck hands assistance be moved into position faster than you may imagine.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

A century or so from now, when the countries of East & SE Asia are struggling to maintain "normal" lifestyles - or even to ensure the survival of their populations - in the face of catastrophic climatic problems and environmental disasters, people will say "What were they thinking?" about this pointless arms race escalation.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

AkieToday 12:42 pm JST

Peter14, the way you talked about democracy is the biggest anti-democracy talk. Chinese people picked their leaders with their blood and lives, not just a piece of paper. Democracy is about people, not about vote, though Chinese do vote.

More propaganda. China was made a one party system of government in 1949. They did not at that time elect Xi in the future to be leader. No national elections were held to chose any leaders with other parties running.

You clearly do not understand either democracy or freedom. Your party line fools nobody which is why you are always either ignored or voted down. Democracy IS about one person = one vote, and the right to choose amongst more than one party.

Japan = Democracy.

China = One party despotic rule.

If you need further education on the matter feel free to email me.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

On the other hand, a war between Japan and Australia is larger than anything you can imagine.

Nah. The only realistic threats to Australia are China and Indonesia, with or without the support of third parties.

Indonesia have a major problem with the simple geography they face in that Jakarta is extremely exposed to attack being so close to the top end and Christmas Island for that matter, while Australia's population centers are well south. Darwin is not a massive city and in fact could probably be evacuated wholesale given enough notice.

The Australian government has already outlined a plan for missile defense in the 2016 white paper in the far north which no doubt could be turned offensive and cover the entire South East Asian region should the need arise. Potentially hypersonic and nuclear given the abundance of uranium here and the joint develop of hypersonics that is occurring between Aus and U.S

It can all be done and will be done if the threat is judged to be that severe.

I seriously hope we don't have to go down that path but we will if necessary. Make no mistake about it.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

BakabonPapa, if it plays out as you predict, they will be too busy using the weapons in a desperate fight for resources that will make ww2 look like a polite debate.

Matt, apologies for my ignorance but why is Indonesia seen as such a threat? They are close but that alone doesn’t make them a credible threat?

The Izumo class were designed for F35b, the aircraft lifts were sized with it in mind, the rest is just timing.

QE2 class carriers are force projection tools, where as a fixed wing capable Izumo would allow flexible deployment of air cover around the extended islands of the Japanese archipelago without the vulnerability of fixed locations.

QE2 class would be a far more logical fit for the Australians.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

During the war against the traitor Taiwan govt, 200000 Japanese soldiers joined PLA, you don't know that either, do you ?

Where did you pull this out?

Some place where the sun don't shine?

On the other hand there is creditable evidence that Japanese officers had trained ROC in the art of warfare after WW2 in which a certain former IJA General called Hiroshi Nemoto had led the Battle of Guningtou a decisive victory against the PRC invading army.

Former IJA general Tomita AKA Haku (白 鴻亮) was the commander and chief of the White Group military advisory group to Taiwan which remained a secret till quite recently.

Their students fought in the Second Taiwan Strait Crisis with great success and their teaching is still in use as a must read today within the ROC military academy.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Matt, apologies for my ignorance but why is Indonesia seen as such a threat? They are close but that alone doesn’t make them a credible threat?

Militarily, Indonesia is outclassed by Australia in terms of technology, but Indonesia has always been seen as a potential threat going back decades due largely to population size and the fact Indonesia is very different culturally, Islam predominates and of course Indonesia has gone through quasi military rule in the past. One good thing though, historical antipathy towards Communists.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suharto

The whole Timor affair caused a bit of friction

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia%E2%80%93East_Timor_relations

But now, and for a good while now, the relationship has been improving. We are on the verge of signing a free trade deal, which I suspect will be signed when the LNP, or certainly Labor (if they win the next election which is highly likely) give up on relocating our Israeli embassy to Jerusalem. The suggestion we might relocate has upset the Indonesians it seems.

The fact remains though that they are very close, their population dwarfs Australia's by a factor 10 and there are always persistent worries about what direction the religious elite are heading in. Will Indonesia maintain its moderate interpretation of Islam and its general, somewhat wavering tolerance for other religions or will somehow hardliners take over and then we have a real problem. That would be a disaster for Indonesia and its people of course since nobody ever seems to prosper under hardcore Islamic rule.

There are also two other questions. Despite Indonesia's hatred of Communists they do have a historical relationship with Russia. Will Indonesia procure more Russian weapons? Will they allow a Russian military presence as Russia seems to be interested in Asia now? And secondly, under a scenario in which China becomes so dominant in Asia, will they somehow get a foothold, military wise, in Indonesia, seems highly unlikely right now, but under a situation in which China makes a surge for Australia it would be relatively easy for them to takeover one thousands of islands in the archipelago and use it as a launchpad to attack Australia.

Thus the need for missile defense, U.S military presence in the far north and general reinforcement of our northern frontiers.

And then we turn to Antarctica and China's activities there.....that's a whole other question that needs answering.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

IZUMO Helicopter carriers is a defensive weapon.

It can carry only about 10 F-35B and probably 2 helicopters on the deck and perhaps 4 to 6 more under the deck.

The carrier itself need more fuels. And since the carrier itself has more expensive assets on the deck, it need to have more CIWS and Avenger missiles.

F-35A should be deployed in Okinawa island chain, in different islands if possible and several in KYUSHU.

Upgrade rotating RADARS or compliment it with the GAMELA RADAR Systems.

http://jsw.newpacificinstitute.org/?p=4011

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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