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Japan readies huge island war games amid YouTube PR push

125 Comments
By Shigemi Sato

Destroyers, fighter jets and 34,000 troops will take part in a huge exercise aimed at bolstering Japan's ability to protect its remote islands, the government said Thursday, amid a territorial dispute with China.

The war games, which will include live-firing, come as Tokyo steps up its global PR campaign by posting online videos it hopes will swing world opinion behind its claims to two archipelagos that are disputed with China and South Korea.

The air-sea-land drill from November 1-18 will involve amphibious landings on the uninhabited atoll of Okidaitojima, 400 kilometers southeast of the main Okinawan island, a defense ministry official said.

Live-fire exercises involving destroyers and F-2 fighter jets will also be conducted, he said.

The island is a considerable distance from the Japanese-controlled Senkaku islands, which China also claims as the Diaoyus.

However, defense force chiefs are considering deploying short-range land-to-sea missiles on the island of Ishigaki, which lies 150 kilometers from the disputed islands, the Asahi and Fuji TV networks said. Both broadcasters said there were no plans to fire weaponry there.

Chinese state-owned ships have sparred with Japanese coastguard boats repeatedly in waters around the Senkakus since Tokyo nationalised three islands in the chain last year.

Beijing's boats have frequently been warned off after sailing into waters Japan considers its preserve.

Fighter jets and warships from both sides have also been in the area on numerous occasions, leading some observers to warn of the danger of an armed conflict that could draw in the United States and have disastrous consequences for the region.

November's drill is aimed at "maintaining and improving the joint operational abilities of the Self-Defense Forces in armed-attack situations", the Self Defense Forces joint staff said in a statement.

It will feature "a series of actions in defending islands" including joint operations in island landings, it said.

There have been similar drills in the past, including one in November 2011 that involved 35,000 troops.

In November last year, U.S. and Japanese forces held a joint drill involving 47,400 troops, the vast bulk from the Japanese side. But they reportedly cancelled an exercise to re-take a remote island in a bid to avoid irritating China.

Since Shinzo Abe became prime minister in December, however, Japan has taken a more robust stance.

In its latest volley, the foreign ministry has produced two 90-second videos stating its case for ownership of the two disputed island groups and posted them on its YouTube site.

Both videos are currently only in Japanese, but the ministry plans to provide versions in 10 other languages including Chinese and Korean.

"We are also preparing three other short movies on the Senkaku islands and one on the issue of Takeshima," a ministry spokesman told AFP, referring to a pair of islets that South Korea controls as Dokdo.

"The new ones will be just 30 seconds in length and we hope they will be watched by smartphone and tablet users."

The ministry has earmarked 120 million yen this fiscal year for the films and creating a YouTube channel, he said.

"It is important that the international community obtain correct understanding over situations surrounding Japan including territories," he said.

Beijing and Seoul reacted angrily to the move, with Chinese foreign ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying repeating the assertion that the East China Sea islands belong to Beijing.

"Whatever propaganda tools Japan employs to support its illegal claim, it will not change the fact that the Diaoyu Islands belong to China," she said.

"We strongly urge the Japanese side to correct its attitude, stop all provocative words and actions and make concrete efforts for the proper management and resolution of the question of the Diaoyu Islands."

South Korea lodged a formal protest over the video, calling in a senior Japanese embassy official to register disapproval on Wednesday.

Foreign ministry spokesman Cho Tai-Young said the protest noted the Japanese government's attempt "to undermine our sovereignty over Dokdo by spreading groundless claims over the internet".

Japan's latest move, officials say, is in part a reaction to advertising efforts by China.

Two-page color ads saying "Diaoyu islands belong to China" appeared in the New York Times and the Washington Post last year.

© (C) 2013 AFP

©2019 GPlusMedia Inc.

125 Comments
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as Tokyo steps up its global PR campaign by posting videos it hopes will swing world opinion..

Will they have any more "We love seamanship" videos? Those would really surprise the Chinese, I imagine...

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Dont forget to add the mascots!

4 ( +8 / -4 )

Good. It was about time for Japan to wake up and smell the coffee. Sixty years of silence and grin-and-bear.

Up till now she was being pushed all around the playground. Glad to see she is conducting some small symbolic exercise like this. Repeated needling over the past and territorial ambition by China and Korea have awoken her.

Now let's see if she can play this thing with more restraint than those two countries have shown so far.

4 ( +13 / -9 )

Comic version of November Drill, nothing serious.

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

Geez..this will go down well in the neighbourhood. Of course Japan can conduct whatever exercises they like, but dont act all surprised when there is a strong reaction from China. Btw...120 million yen to create 3 x 30 second videos and set up a YouTube channel ...seriously? What a great value for taxpayers money - government waste at its finest. Where do I create my own amakudari PR image company and sign up?

0 ( +7 / -7 )

A link to the video would be a nice touch.

11 ( +12 / -1 )

120 million yen? For 3 30 seconds movie clips? Is it by Spielberg, with Tom Cruise?

1 ( +7 / -6 )

some observers to warn of the danger of an armed conflict that could draw the United States in and have disastrous consequences for the region.

For the region? If the US gets drawn in, it would be disastrous for China.

5 ( +9 / -4 )

Can we have choreographed goose-stepping? We do enjoy that.

-3 ( +7 / -10 )

Just because the U.S.A. has to play these silly war games, doesn't mean that Japan has to do it too.

This is entirely meaningless and a total waste of time and money.

Can't you think of something constructive to do?

-3 ( +12 / -15 )

Poke....poke....poke. Next the Koreans will have live fire drills Sadogashima.

-5 ( +5 / -10 )

Those damned islands again! I wish I could blast them into chunks on the bottom of the ocean before they lead to a full scale war!

-5 ( +8 / -13 )

China and Korea will respond with their own version of who owns what, and the usual drills and rehtoric. Logic will never prevail until there is pressure from the West, only escalation and the nippon will draw her sword crap from Ishihara. The right wing is taking advantage of the U.S. power shift to the pacific. An incident will likely occur. Next comes constitutional changes, and more escalations. Everything is very predictable in Japan. Only thing unpredictable is the future of the Japan/U.S. position on who defends Japan. With an economic recovery barely in sight, the world doesnt need this manufactured crap from any of the Asian countries.

-10 ( +3 / -13 )

Propaganda

-6 ( +4 / -10 )

For the region? If the US gets drawn in, it would be disastrous for China.

and the US I would imagine

-6 ( +4 / -10 )

We support our most important ally, Japan! ...friends of Japan in NYC USA

5 ( +12 / -7 )

Wow this is going to cause more problems than what Japan had anticipated. They will make one move then their enemies will be forced to make one in response. Good Luck Japan!

-8 ( +2 / -10 )

and the US I would imagine

Keep on imagining

0 ( +5 / -5 )

This is nothing compared to what China and South Korea are doing to Japan. 70 years of being nice to them did not help at all.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

What has Korea and China been doing to Japan for 70 years?

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Exactly, can someone please dig up those two clips in question? I'm really not in the mood to fish on YouTube. JT?

3 ( +5 / -2 )

This is all part of rearmament of Japan, and Japan getting back to their roots of military adventurism, since they are very proud of their WWII records. The propaganda shrill from Japan is getting louder. Both Japan and China have a long history of subjugating their neighbors, so it's funny how they accuse each other. Some US experts on US magazines couple of days ago, even predicted that Japan may announce the development of nuclear arms. And all this propaganda is needed in Japan, so that their population accept the eventual Japanese government's plans.

-7 ( +6 / -13 )

Mike45Oct. 24, 2013 - 08:05PM JST What has Korea and China been doing to Japan for 70 years?

How about flooding overseas news sources and the internet with one sided propaganda concerning territorial arguments mixing it in with 70 year old WWII history and depicting Japan, perhaps the most peaceful major country in the world since WWII as the fascist rightwing imperial empire it used to be, perpetually harping on WWII despite China having signed a Treaty with Japan in 1972 and South Korea in 1965 both nations receiving apologies, money and putting all WWII matters to rest.

1 ( +9 / -8 )

The war now is an economical war. The biggest aggressors worldwide are the NSA, followed by China (Russia I have no clue about their capability). Thus building an army of hackers would be 1,000 times more efficient than playing old war style games. Except if you are looking for votes!

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

I just got finished watching both vids on Youtube.

I have to say, it was quite warm, happy, and charming to say the least (such as 99% of things advertised in Japan).

My only complaint is, that if I'm going to be Properly Brainwashed, then the Brainwashing should be properly administered with a bottle of Daiginjo & Dried Squid ;)

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Relax everyone, the word "HUGE" is not actually in any of the Japanese news sites that I have checked.

It seems to be the journalist above, Shigemi Sato, who has chosen this word to describe the exercise.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

@OssanAmerica

"China having signed a Treaty with Japan in 1972 and South Korea in 1965 both nations receiving apologies, money and putting all WWII matters to rest"

What money ? what WWII to rest ? Expound please, no propaganda.

"perhaps the most peaceful major country in the world"

Passively. It is not about the past, it is about the future. Abe wants to be proactively, Abe wants rearm Japan, Abe wants to sell weapons to promote conflicts. If Abe wants war, he will get it.

-7 ( +4 / -11 )

Military and arms build up between Japan and China will not bode well for the NE Asian region. The rhetoric and paranoia between the two countries is a bit much. I fear a small incident between and China and Japan might cause the tinder box to be lit thus causing an uncontrollable situation in NE Asian.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

"70 year old WWII history and depicting Japan, perhaps the most peaceful major country in the world since WWII as the fascist rightwing imperial empire it used to be"

I guess you and I live in two different Japans. Japan is not the most peaceul major country by choice. You dont know post war history very well; there have been many efforts to roll things back to the facist past. If the constitution gets scrapped (not even amended) thats when the fun and games, which is what most of this is, will begin. Chucky is right, Japan wants to revitalize its past, and will have none of China becoming an equal. China will have none of Japan as an equal. The problem is that its not 1943. China is much more united, and Korea is capable of defending itself. Countries are always changing alliances; Korea could easily side with China. Its been forecasted many many times that if Japan does remiltarize, it will destablize the region.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

Thanks for the links, oatmeal.

Just watched them and they seem to be quite reasonable. Nice to hear the Japanese side stated clearly and plainly by the Japanese for once. So many apologists around I was beginning to wonder what their side of the story might be.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

This is good! Remember China has border disputes with all of its neighbors. Japan needs to prepare for the time when the CCP decides to use its normal means of acquiring new land, by taking it. Japan and the US will benefit from this and China can watch in fear, knowing that they have met their match in the Japanese/American alliance.

4 ( +8 / -4 )

Wouldn't it be better to clean up Fukushima first?

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

mulanOct. 24, 2013 - 10:00PM JST @OssanAmerica "China having signed a Treaty with Japan in 1972 and South Korea in 1965 both nations receiving apologies, money and putting all WWII matters to rest"

What money ? what WWII to rest ? Expound please, no propaganda.

Please google Sino-Japanese Treaty of Friendship of 1972. It was negotiated by PM Kakuei Tanaka and Premier Chou En Lai. In he spirit of friendship the Treaty was reaffirmed again in 1978. You can read about all of the details, and it is "historical fact" not "propaganda".

"perhaps the most peaceful major country in the world"

Passively. It is not about the past, it is about the future. Abe wants to be proactively, Abe wants rearm Japan, Abe >wants to sell weapons to promote conflicts. If Abe wants war, he will get it.

Yes it is about the future, China through it's military and territorial expansion, use of anti-Japan sentiment as an official political and diplomatic tool has forced Japan to face reality; ie; it can not remain completely peaceful and passive when the neighbor is an aggressive bully. Whatever complaints you have about the Abe administration or Japan's defense direction, you have only China to blame.

Mike45Oct. 24, 2013 - 10:09PM JST "70 year old WWII history and depicting Japan, perhaps the most peaceful major country in the world since WWII as the fascist rightwing imperial empire it used to be" I guess you and I live in two different Japans. Japan is not the most peaceul major country by choice.

It sure is. The United States has been trying to get Japan to change it's peace constitution since 1950. We were successful is getting them to create the predecessor of the JSDF. But for the next 50 years Japan refused to comply with US demands for more participation in military and security matters. All that has changed because China has now exposed it's "not-so-peaceful rise".

You dont know post war history very well; there have been many efforts to roll things back to the facist past. If the >constitution gets >scrapped (not even amended) thats when the fun and games, which is what most of this is, will >begin. Chucky is right, >Japan wants to revitalize its past, and will have none of China becoming an equal. China will >have none of Japan as >an equal. The problem is that its not 1943. China is much more united, and Korea is capable >of defending itself. Countries are always changing alliances; Korea could easily side with China. Its been forecasted >?many many times that if Japan does remiltarize, it will destablize the region

Sorry but I've been back and forth since the late 1960s, I know Japan's modern history VERY well, whereas you simply parrot the Chinese government propaganda. The "right-wing" in Japan has always been limited to shady organizations and annoying fringe groups, never a mainstream part of the national government; ie; in power. Europe has had more right-wing participants in it's mainstream national politics. Japan has found success as a democracy, it has no intention of "revitalizing" it's fascist past. No nation that undergoes the prosperity and success of a democratic system wants to return to authoritarianism, a point undoubtedly lost on someone who actually supports a one-party dictatorship. Asia with the exception of the two countries that officially use anti-Japan sentiment as a political weapon sees China as the biggest threat to regional peace and welcome Japan's increased military participation in regional security as a counter balance to the Chinese threat. And these are Asian countries who were victims of Japan in WWII but have the sense and maturity to move on.

2 ( +8 / -6 )

China just published Japan's propaganda video clip on her website. Can Japan publish Chinese evidences on Japanese website to let Japanese know the truth ?

Japan's propaganda is such an amateurish cut of history to lie about it. If Japan has confidence, she should return the Senkakus/DiaYu back to UN and let the world vote to whom the Islands belong to.

-7 ( +3 / -10 )

mulanOct. 24, 2013 - 10:55PM JST China just published Japan's propaganda video clip on her website. Can Japan publish Chinese evidences on >Japanese website to let Japanese know the truth ?

Why don't you post the link so other's can see it?

Japan's propaganda is such an amateurish cut of history to lie about it. If Japan has confidence, she should return the >Senkakus/DiaYu back to UN and let the world vote to whom the Islands belong to.

China recognized the Senkakus as part of Okinawa, ie; Japan until 1970. There are PRC maps from the 1950s and 1960s that support this. If China thinks it has a case it should take it to the ICJ. If it wants to take them by force, as foolish as it would be, they should go ahead and try. Really nothing more to be said.

2 ( +7 / -5 )

To garner more global support, they really should have put out versions in different languages on the same day. There are plenty of Japanese people who are quite fluent in various languages for all the youtube vids to be released on the same day.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

@OssanAmerica

Where is in the 1972 treaty that says Japan gives China money to compensate her crimes against Chinese people and properties ? Where is in the treaty that says to put WW2 rest ?

Stop lies.

In fact, in the treaty, it is China give Japan money by trillions. Does Japan ever appreciate it ?

"There are PRC maps from the 1950s and 1960s that support this"

There are millions maps publish by China, how many of them "support this" ? In fact, almost all of the publish maps don't "support this". As for the maps shown on the video clip, there is no explanations as source, credibility, official or unofficial.

I see many Chinese children drawing maps that showed that Japan is part of USA, can I cite them as evidence in my video clip and post it in the international forum ?

What a laughing stock and narrow minded.

-9 ( +3 / -12 )

When your economic policies are failing what do you do? Divert your people's attention away from the domestic problems at hand and cook up a storm. That's really quite stupid Abe Shinzo. Everyone loves your story telling and fake heroics.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

If China thinks it has a case it should take it to the ICJ.

There is no point going to the ICJ since all legal issues of the dispute have been resolved with the signing of various WWII peace treaties/ agreements such as the Potsdam Declaration (terms of surrender for Japan), San Francisco Peace Treaty and etc. between Japan and the Allies.

Article 8 of the Potsdam Declaration (terms of surrender for Japan):

"The terms of the Cairo Declaration shall be carried out and Japanese sovereignty shall be limited to the islands of Honshu, Hokkaido, Kyushu, Shikoku and such minor islands as we ( US, UK, China and Russia) determine."

San Francisco Peace Treaty

Japan will concur in any proposal of the United States to the United Nations to place under its trusteeship system, with the United States as the sole administering authority, Nansei Shoto south of 29 deg. north latitude (that's the Ryukyu islands but excluding the Diaoyu Islands which are located further south between 25 to 26 degree north latitude)...

And the origin of Article 3 of the San Francisco Peace Treaty can be traced to the following agreement made during the Cairo Conference:

"During a private dinner with the Chiangs on the evening of November 23, President Roosevelt asked Chiang China's intentions regarding the Ryukyu Islands. According to the memorandum written by the Chinese side (Roosevelt's special assistant Harry Hopkins was present but did not apparently take notes), "The President referred to the question of the Ryukyu Islands and enquired more than once whether China would want the Ryukyus." To this, Chiang reportedly replied that "China would be agreeable to joint occupation of the Ryukyus by China and the United States and, eventually, joint administration by the two countries under the trusteeship of an international organization (UN trusteeship for decolonization as described in the San Francisco Peace Treaty)""

So the case is closed as long as Japan will comply with the terms of surrender and the San Francisco Peace Treaty.

On the other hand, if Japan is unwilling to comply with the terms of surrender and the San Francisco Peace Treaty, it should sue the Allies and many other countries in the world that signed the San Francisco Peace Treaty with Japan.

As a start, Japan should nullify the following agreements/ treaties:

Japanese Instrument of Surrender:

"We, acting by command of and in behalf of the Emperor of Japan, the Japanese Government and the Japanese imperial General Headquarters, hereby accept the provisions set forth in the declaration issued by the heads of the Governments of the United States, China and Great Britain on 26 July 1945, at Potsdam, and subsequently adhered to by the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, which four powers are hereafter referred to as the Allied Powers."

Imperial Rescript of Emperor Hirohito

"Our Empire accepts the provisions of their Joint Declaration (i.e. the Potsdam Declaration)..."

Emperor Hirohito's Radio Broadcast

"We have ordered our Government to communicate to the Governments of the United States, Great Britain, China and the Soviet Union that our empire accepts the provisions of their joint declaration."

1972 China-Japan treaty:

"The Government of Japan fully understands and respects this stand of the Government of the People's Republic of China, and it firmly maintains its stand under Article 8 of the Potsdam Proclamation."

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

@Guru29

Thanks for the legal and historical basis. None of them is shown in the Japanese govt propaganda video clip. How can we add them into it ?

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

mulan

What money ? what WWII to rest ? Expound please, no propaganda.

There was no money in the form of war reparations because there wasn't a single unified China that could be a signatory of the San Francisco Peace Treaty. Regardless, the PRC received (reclaimed) Japanese-built infrastructure such as mines and railways in China worth over $18B in 1945 US Dollars. You don't think the $220 million soft loan to China by the Japanese in the 1970's (a critical/pivotal decade for PRC development) or the 6 trillion Yen in Official Developmental Assistance (ODA) that Japan gives the PRC annually to this day are Japan's way of making amends for their wartime past despite the fact that China in 1972 had completely absolved Japan of any war reparations?

As for putting all issues of WWII to rest between the PRC and Japan, wasn't that the whole point of the Joint Communiqué of the Government of Japan and the Government of the People's Republic of China of 1972 under which diplomatic relations between the two countries were normalized, the PRC was formally recognized as the sole government of China, and most importantly the PRC renounced any claim to any World War II reparations from Japan?

Where is in the 1972 treaty that says Japan gives China money to compensate her crimes against Chinese people and properties ? Where is in the treaty that says to put WW2 rest ? Stop lies.

Here's a link to the 1972 treaty in it's entirety: http://www.mofa.go.jp/region/asia-paci/china/joint72.html

Line item #5 is pretty unambiguous if you ask me: 5. The Government of the People's Republic of China declares that in the interest of the friendship between the Chinese and the Japanese peoples, it renounces its demand for war reparation from Japan.

In fact, in the treaty, it is China give Japan money by trillions. Does Japan ever appreciate it ?

Funny, there's no mention of China giving Japan trillions of anything. Could you be mistaken? Maybe you could double check? I don't suppose the PRC Foreign Ministry would have it posted online so the public can read it?

5 ( +8 / -3 )

@USNinJapan2

"The Government of the People's Republic of China declares that in the interest of the friendship between the Chinese and the Japanese peoples, it renounces its demand for war reparation from Japan."

Is it the same that China gives money to Japan by way of renouncing it ? The war reparation amounts to trillions, US dollar.

Does China ever discount Japan's help in China's economic development ? No, China appreciate it and officially acknowledge it.

"As for putting all issues of WWII to rest between the PRC and Japan, wasn't that the whole point of the Joint Communiqué of the Government of Japan and the Government of the People's Republic of China of 1972 "

The treaty is focused on friendship and seeks to learn from mistakes from history. No, China and Japan did not say that they both put the WW2 to rest. History is part of humanity and legal framework, you can't cut it, chew it, swallow it and flush it.

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

A drill in the atoll of Okidaitōjima? Why not in the Senkaku Islands?

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Guru29Oct. 24, 2013 - 11:33PM JST "If China thinks it has a case it should take it to the ICJ."

There is no point going to the ICJ since all legal issues of the dispute have been resolved with the signing of various >WWII peace treaties/ agreements such as the Potsdam Declaration (terms of surrender for Japan), San Francisco >Peace Treaty and etc. between Japan and the Allies.

No you are wrong,. The resolution is where it stands today, the Senkakus are under Japanese administration. It's rather ironic that China's position is that the WWII peace treaties/agreements are invalid while you continue to flood the boards with your argument that those agreements which China rejects, are the basis of China's claim. If "there is no point in going to the ICJ" then taking them by force is the only option China has left. I do not believe they are willing to face the consequences of such an action. Do you?

mulanOct. 24, 2013 - 11:54PM JST "As for putting all issues of WWII to rest between the PRC and Japan, wasn't that the whole point of the Joint Communiqué of the Government of Japan and the Government of the People's Republic of China of 1972 " The treaty is focused on friendship and seeks to learn from mistakes from history. No, China and Japan did not say >that they both put the WW2 to rest. History is part of humanity and legal framework, you can't cut it, chew it, swallow it >and flush it.

Peace treaties aren't negotiated, signed and ratified between sovereign nations for the purpose of keeping hostilities and compensation demands alive in perpetuity.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

@OssanAmerica

"Peace treaties aren't negotiated, signed and ratified between sovereign nations for the purpose of keeping hostilities and compensation demands alive in perpetuity."

China wants peace with Japan. It is Japan who violated the treaty and threatens China with MDT and forces.

Why wouldn't Abe just recognize the dispute and keep promises to resolve the issue in peaceful way ?

-8 ( +2 / -10 )

Japan says it will work hard to end the "illegal occupation" of Takeshima island by South Korea. So it looks like this propaganda is another step towards Japan's military's rise to its former glory. Japan right now needs the United States, but that doesn't mean that it will continue to be the case in the future once Japan completes its metamorphosis. Once that happen, it's not unreasonable to see that Japan may start maritime clashes with her neighbors.

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

the PRC received (reclaimed) Japanese-built infrastructure such as mines and railways in China

Those were probably built by Chinese forced labor with Chinese money anyway.

There was no money in the form of war reparations

Regarding the issue of war reparation, the official position of Japan is that the issue had been fully resolved by the 1951 San Francisco Peace Treaty. And Japan will not pay one single cent of reparation beyond what the Americans stipulated in the treaty. That's exactly the reason why Japan has rejected all claims for reparation from China and Korea since both were not invited by the US government to sign the San Francisco Peace Treaty with Japan.

there wasn't a single unified China that could be a signatory of the San Francisco Peace Treaty.

That's not true. The PRC has become the legal government of China since 1949. On the other hand, the ROC controlled only Taiwan which is less than 0.5% of China's territory by the time when the San Francisco Peace Treaty was signed

As for putting all issues of WWII to rest between the PRC and Japan, wasn't that the whole point of the Joint Communiqué of the Government of Japan and the Government of the People's Republic of China of 1972

That's very poor logic. Obviously the treaty resolved only issues that they managed to reach agreement but not issues that they couldn't. As for issues on territorial dispute, the1972 China-Japan treaty says this:

"The Government of Japan fully understands and respects this stand of the Government of the People's Republic of China, and it firmly maintains its stand under Article 8 of the Potsdam Proclamation."

And Article 8 of the Potsdam Declaration (terms of surrender for Japan) says this:

"The terms of the Cairo Declaration shall be carried out and Japanese sovereignty shall be limited to the islands of Honshu, Hokkaido, Kyushu, Shikoku and such minor islands as we ( US, UK, China and Russia) determine."

-10 ( +2 / -12 )

Guru29

That's very poor logic. Obviously the treaty resolved only issues that they managed to reach agreement but not issues that they couldn't. As for issues on territorial dispute, the1972 China-Japan treaty says this:

Thanks, but if you didn't notice I haven't said word one about any territorial disputes so you're preaching to the wrong person. I however did comment, in response to our comrade Mulan, regarding whether 1) any war reparations are still owed by Japan to the PRC and 2) "In fact, in the treaty, it is China give Japan money by trillions (sic)" and the answer is NO on both counts. The 1972 treaty is particularly clear on the first point.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

@USNinJapan2

Is it clear that China forgave Japan for war reparation in the treaty ?

Why ? Because Japan owes China money for the crimes she committed.

If someone owes you money, means he/she should return that money, unless money owner says otherwise.

In any cases, China lost money to Japan. You can say that Japan robbed China, or nicely that China gave it to Japan.

You choose which way to say it.

-8 ( +2 / -10 )

but if you didn't notice I haven't said word one about any territorial disputes

Thanks. I knew that you didn't talk about territorial dispute. But territorial dispute is certainly the main issue of this article.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

mulan

Is it clear that China forgave Japan for war reparation in the treaty ? Why ? Because Japan owes China money for the crimes she committed If someone owes you money, means he/she should return that money, unless money owner says otherwise. In any cases, China lost money to Japan. You can say that Japan robbed China, or nicely that China gave it to Japan. You choose which way to say it.

Unfortunately for you, the PRC government chose to state it very clearly thus:

The Government of the People's Republic of China declares that in the interest of the friendship between the Chinese and the Japanese peoples, it renounces its demand for war reparation from Japan.

This means only one thing, that the PRC withdraws any previous claim it had made for Japan to pay it war reparations for what it had done during WWII. This is permanent and is valid today, again despite Japan continuing to give trillions of yen in aid to the PRC every year. As a space-faring nuclear-armed nation the PRC and all of its people should be embarrassed to still be receiving developmental aid from other countries. It would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

The treaty is focused on friendship and seeks to learn from mistakes from history. No, China and Japan did not say that they both put the WW2 to rest. History is part of humanity and legal framework, you can't cut it, chew it, swallow it and flush it.

And this previous comment of yours is very telling for anyone wondering whether it's the Chinese or the Japanese who are clinging to the past. It really helps us see who is trying to move on and who is intent on reliving it for gain be it geo-political, economic, etc.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

The statement, drafted by the US states..

"In the Declaration, in regards the islands of Dokdo, otherwise known as Takeshima, or Liancourt Rocks, this normally uninhabited rock formation was according to our information never treated as part of Korea and, since about 1905, has been under the jurisdiction of the Oki Islands Branch Officer of Shimane Prefecture of Japan. The Island does not appear ever before to have been claimed by Korea."

This was the 6th draft if I recall correctly. But every draft written before the 6th draft actually stated that Korea had total rights over the islands. Then Japan consulted with the US alone and basically told them Korea never owned it, and succeeded to change the draft written by the US. In summary, the US is 100% ignorant concerning East Asian history and simply believed the words out of Japan's mouth while Korea was absent during this meeting. Now Japan is using this statement and saying "See? Even US agrees. What US says must be right!" I can't help but not agree with this.

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

@USNinJapan2

"As a space-faring nuclear-armed nation the PRC and all of its people should be embarrassed to still be receiving developmental aid from other countries. It would be funny if it wasn't so sad."

When China forgave Japan for war crimes she committed, there is only one condition to it: for the sake of friendship between Japanese and Chinese people.

Did China beg for the assistance ? Is China only one to receive the assistance ? Is it a humanity thing to do ? Are there any conditions to it and what are they? Did Japan benefit from it ?

Answer all the questions so you can have a whole picture.

"whether it's the Chinese or the Japanese who are clinging to the past"

Does China want to rearm Japan ? Does China want rewrite history ? Does China worship the old war criminals ? Does China want to change constitution away from peace ?

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

Japan doesn't have to do this to "bolster global support" for their dispute with the PRC. The debate for the island dispute with SK is another story...

0 ( +1 / -1 )

There are increasing calls by Japanese right to use force against South Korea to take the Takeshima island by force. There are increasing calls by Japanese right to develop nuclear weapons. Japan is turning hawkish everyday, it's getting worse and worse.

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

Japan cant go to war with anyone - they have no access to energy and they are in debt to the tune of 250% debt-to-gdp. China would crush them in a war and America wont step in the way because China is the biggest economy, going forward.

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

i'm fine with china becoming a prosperous nation, but not okay with communism spreading. that doesnt mean im for war. the two countries should talk it out til theyre hopping mad and then some.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Japan is using this opportunity to show case its modernization of its defense to ensure China knows that it cannot simply walk over Japan in the future. This is Japan's way of sending a strong message and to raise its profile in a new way by also offering military aid and displaying its armed forces in an effort to build regional alliances and shore up other countries defenses to counter a rising China. In other words Japan is now beginning to step up to the plate by providing military aid to some countries in Southeast Asia. They are training troops, conducting joint exercises, making more regular port visits. Japan is indeed flexing more muscle and taking its stand more assertively and is building up ties with other nations that share worries about their imposing neighbor to prevent China from rising over them. Hence by becoming more sensitive to the security needs of its regional neighbors Japan will hope to offer much to increase their peace of mind.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

mulanOct. 25, 2013 - 12:14AM JST @OssanAmerica "Peace treaties aren't negotiated, signed and ratified between sovereign nations for the purpose of keeping hostilities and compensation demands alive in perpetuity."

China wants peace with Japan. It is Japan who violated the treaty and threatens China with MDT and forces.

That's really hogwash. China made up a claim in 1970. But by 2003 the Chinese PLAN were announcing their intent to break the first island chain. The Chinese government formed the East China Seas Fisheries Research Instuitute to control over 1000 Chinese fishing vessels for the purposes of using them for their territorial expansion plans. The 2010 Chinese trawler was sent to the Senkakus on orders to stat an international incident and fire up the public into believing this lie that "Japan stole the islands". All very calculated, using the JDP Noda administrations action of purchasing 3 of the 5 islands, TO PREVENT UPSETTING CHINA, as an excused to get openly upset. Jap[an has done NOTHING to violate the 1972 Treaty, only China has. And I what are "MDT and forces"?

Why wouldn't Abe just recognize the dispute and keep promises to resolve the issue in peaceful way ?

Recognizing a dispute legally would not benefit Japan, only benefit China. So to answer your question, because he's not stupid. Taking a claim to the ICJ is the "peaceful" way which China refuses to do. Instead they send ship after ship in an effort to intimidate. Schoolyard bully behavior.

mulanOct. 25, 2013 - 12:51AM JST "http://video.sina.com.cn/p/mil/v/2013-10-24/080563057625.html" is the link to the Japanese video clip published on Chinese website. Now, Japan, I call you to do the same.

And you ARE aware that thus and other Chinese "news sources" are state controlled propaganda mouthpieces right?

mulanOct. 25, 2013 - 01:08AM JST Does China want to rearm Japan ? Does China want rewrite history ? Does China worship the old war criminals ? >Does China want to change constitution away from peace ?

The irony in this which evades you is that it is CHINA and only CHINA that has caused this change in Japan's position after nearly 70 years. China is causing Japan to rearm. China is rewriting history. China worships it's own war criminal- Mao. China is changing the Japanese constitution by continuing to act in a belligerent and threatening manner, nt just to Japan but to it's other smaller Asian neighbors.,

6 ( +9 / -3 )

Here comes a propaganda war from the Japan side. Isn’t it a little late? ‘Japan’s latest move, officials say, is in part a reaction to advertising efforts by China. Two-page color ads saying “Diaoyu islands belong to China” appeared in the New York Times and the Washington Post last year,’ that was about a year ago. This is definitely a provocation and not a response. Japan is going against two of the most vibrant economies in Asia, one should pause to think “why?” China has repeatedly pointed out and we can also see that Abe is using China in his political game and says one thing but acts another. Don’t be naïve to think that China has caused all these changes in Japan. I heard all kinds of accusations against China especially on the idea that China will invade Japan are absurd. There is no basis for that fear whatsoever; remember that China has all along proposed to shelve the islands issue and also protected its sovereignty by non-aggressive means. China has never provoked or smeared Japan like Japan did to China. Can anyone come up with any news source that shows China has bad-mouthed or smeared Japan? China is in fact being bullied as Japan shows the most provocations and aggression towards China. This island war game is a case in point.

-7 ( +3 / -10 )

OssanAmerica Oct. 25, 2013 - 02:19AM JST The irony in this which evades you is that it is CHINA and only CHINA that has caused this change in Japan's position after nearly 70 years.

Facts are Japan changed the position in 1978. In the 1972 Okinawa Agreement that grants Japan the rights of adminstration and not sovereignty. In 1978, China and Japan PM Fukuda accepted the fact that "the dispute of Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands shall be postponed". This was first time a Japanese goverment admitted that there was dispute over the islands. If Japan has clear ownership like you say, why did your former PM and the J-goverment postpone the dispute for future generations to solve? We know today, Japan goverment retracted by saying "there is no dispute" and changed the position.

-8 ( +2 / -10 )

@mulan

The incoming generation of Chinese leaders are thoughtful people who will manage China and its relationship with the Japan, U.S. and other nations. However, the ability to judge the character and capabilities of the Chinese communist elite are questionable. There is a perceptive short history of Chinese leadership since the Communist revolution. Unfortunately, there is a great deal missing from that history, especially concerning the Cultural Revolution, which to this day is officially ignored by Mainland Chinese historians. The experience is in some way responsible for cultivating a sense of political maturity in the incoming generation of leaders is doubtful because of the little the west know about the Cultural Revolution. Unfortunately, as the old footings of cooperation crumble, misunderstanding, miscommunication and mistrust are inhibiting the construction of new ones.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

I think Japan and China arguing who was worse, is like having two former criminals convicted of stealing other people's houses, and committing murders against the owners of the houses, arguing who is worse. They both need to be watched carefully before they get out of hand. The only difference is that the US supports the other because it's more useful against the other bigger power that threatens US interests in the Pacific. Take out the China equation and I doubt the US would care less about those islands that Japan's screaming that it's the rightful owner.

-9 ( +2 / -11 )

@sfjp330

Good question.

However, one important factor is that China is huge and populous. If you have vast sample of people, there is no shortage of leaders.

Remember that the new generation (cultural revolution ) still has better education and experiences than the first generation ( farmers ).

The unique feature of Chinese leadership is that they have to climb ladders to get to top. That ensures that policy is smoothly carried out from generation to generation.

-7 ( +2 / -9 )

@mulan

Only when missile launches, then he will realize that there is a dispute.

"It is only those who have never heard a shot, never heard the shriek and groans of the wounded and lacerated ... that cry aloud for more blood, more vengeance, more desolation."

William Sherman

6 ( +7 / -1 )

I think Japan and China arguing who was worse, is like having two former criminals convicted of stealing other people's houses, and committing murders against the owners of the houses, arguing who is worse.

The "worst" has to go to Korea which took Takeshima by force with the unilateral declaration of Rhee line killing Japanese fishermen and taking them hostage.

2 ( +9 / -7 )

chucky3176Oct. 25, 2013 - 05:49AM JST Take out the China equation and I doubt the US would care less about those islands that Japan's screaming that it's >the rightful owner.

The proof that your above statement is totally incorrect is that the US accepted Japan's incorporation of the islands in 1895 along with the other leading nations in the world and kept them as Japanese, ie; "excluded minor islands" and even returned them to Okinawa prefecture in 1972. Throughout this entire time, China (PRC) was not in the equation, either because it didn't exist or even if it did it was insignificant.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

Bertie, There is an old saying, "The best way to preserve the peace is to prepare for war" Seems to have worked. I would rather the play games then shoot at each other for real.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

sfjp330Oct. 25, 2013 - 04:05AM JST "OssanAmerica Oct. 25, 2013 - 02:19AM JST The irony in this which evades you is that it is CHINA and only CHINA that has caused this change in Japan's position after nearly 70 years. Facts are Japan changed the position in 1978. In the 1972 Okinawa Agreement that grants Japan the rights of >adminstration and not sovereignty. In 1978, China and Japan PM Fukuda accepted the fact that "the dispute of >Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands shall be postponed". This was first time a Japanese goverment admitted that there was >dispute over the islands.

Please provde supporting link for the above.

If Japan has clear ownership like you say, why did your former PM and the J-goverment postpone the dispute for >future generations to solve? We know today, Japan goverment retracted by saying "there is no dispute" and changed >the position.

"Your" PM? I have a President. Again please see above.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

mulan

However, one important factor is that China is huge and populous. If you have vast sample of people, there is no shortage of leaders. Remember that the new generation (cultural revolution ) still has better education and experiences than the first generation ( farmers ). The unique feature of Chinese leadership is that they have to climb ladders to get to top. That ensures that policy is smoothly carried out from generation to generation.

Wow, are you just copying this stuff out of the official propaganda playbook verbatim? It's so sincere. Reminds me of the claptrap the cheery "official" tour guide was spouting about the wonderful One Child Policy and the most modern this and the most advanced that when we were being driven around Guanzhou a few years back.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

OssanAmerica Oct. 25, 2013 - 07:55AM JST Please provde supporting link for the above.

In August 18, 1978, a Treaty of Peace and Friendship between Japan and the PRC was signed. In Japan for the treaty ratification, Vice Premier Deng Xiaoping spoke at the time about the Senkaku Islands issue noting that, “On the occasion of the normalization of diplomatic relations between China and Japan, both sides agreed not to raise the issue. Now, in the negotiations that led to the conclusion of this Treaty of Peace and Friendship, we have again agreed not to raise this issue….This sort of problem can be shelved for the time being. We have no objections to putting it aside for a decade.”

Source: http://www.japanfocus.org/-Wada-Haruki/3433

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

@Ossan,

You have missed the mark because of your blind love for Japan. I dont take sides with either China or Japan; they are birds of the same feather thus I take a more objective position. Their history, value systems and logic are almost identical and they have more in common with each other than with any country in the West. Both want to be in control and are taking advantage of the new world order in Asia. China is not developed on par with Western countries, and is acting like an arrogant fool, bullying India, Phillipines and Vietnam, . Its reaction to Japan is a different; its because of a fear of a rising military in Japan. The right wing is playing on these fears to escalate the tension. It would be in China and Japans best interest to work out, through an intermediary, a solution that doesnt involve reaction without logic. Once the genie is out (nuclear) then its too late. As far as Japan being pacifist and never wanting to return to its facist past, sorry I cant buy that one. The revised consitution does exactly that; bringing back the facisim and squashing any democratic ideals. There is already a facist element in Japan, driving around in buses and voting for right wing extremist.

-8 ( +1 / -9 )

@Sabrage

The dispute is diplomatic issue should be resolved by diplomatic ways.

I totally agree with you.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Fukushima, what next? Tokyo? Focus on helping victims of Fukushima. Japan does not need another radioactive site.

Abe is white washed in a twisted way. Abe needs to understand that the US had causes for wars; the causes weren’t necessarily in which all people can agree, but at least not completely despicable. At least at the government level, there were no sex slavery, forced labor of ordinary people, massacre, etc. Study history, not fabricated fictions.

Instead of repenting for the pain that Japan had inflicted on their neighbors, if Japan starts another war, the Japanese people have no one to blame but themselves for another radioactive site. Learn from Germans. At least they show regrets for their wrongdoings.

Abe, grow up and study history. Focus on Fukushima.

-11 ( +1 / -12 )

@USNinJapan2

For the past 60 years, Chinese govt is stable. The relationship with Japan will remain friendly. I am comfortable to say that.

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

Since Japan is using PR, why not create 2 unique mascot for the respective islands, as cute as possible. Produce items and goods and start promoting all over Japan and overseas, make anime, manga, etc. This is Japan's soft power, just add kawaii to it and it'll start gaining PR. The Japanese manga, anime and everything-kawaii industries are immensely popular. As well as Japanese cuisine, so make like, Senkaku Ramen, Takeshima Soba, or sushi, etc.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

"Sorry but I've been back and forth since the late 1960s, I know Japan's modern history VERY well, whereas you simply parrot the Chinese government propaganda. The "right-wing" in Japan has always been limited to shady organizations and annoying fringe groups, never a mainstream part of the national government;"

Not to be confrontational, but your defense is one we commonly hear; been to Japan many times, etc. You have to spend residency here and engage, then you only can begin to see how it really is. its always fun to watch the tiger from behind the glass; entering his habitat is something different and eventually you will get bit.

Suggested reading for you:

Planning for Empire: Reform Bureacrats and the Japanese Wartime State

The Enigma of Japanese Power: People and Politics in a Stateless Nation

You revealed your limited knowlege with the statement "The "right-wing" in Japan has always been limited to shady organizations and annoying fringe groups, never a mainstream part of the national government" Perhaps I am mistaken, but I thought that Ishihara was elected mayor of Tokyo several times, and now what is he doing? Hashimoto was elected mayor of what city? The right wing has for many generations try to implement their neo facist agenda. This is common knowledge to anybody living in Japan, it goes back for several generations. Facism and Communism are both ideals that jive with the collective group paternalistic values of both Japan and China.

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

"Your" PM? I have a President. Again please see above. ,

OssanAmerica, I think he meant that you're a Japanese American, claiming to be speaking for all "Americans", preventing you from having an unbiased, balanced view, on this issue of Japan's rearmament.

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

Mike45 Im happy to see that you have nuanced your view of Japan a little more. However I think it is a step to far to talk about the current rather limited changes by Abes government as a revamping of Japanese style fascism. I think you should indeed step in to the cage and cuddle with the tiger. I know I do and so far I have only met an incredible small number of people thinking that they are by nature or divinity better than me (compared to western countries). Most of these voices is actually about simple nationalism/patriotism. The youth of Japan is what you need to think about if you want to make predictions. As far as I can see there is nothing among them that carries any promise of a new born fascism. On the contrary. Hypothetically if Abe were to try to implement fascism in a traditional sense he would be out of office in no time. Let the vans shout out their xenophobia message. Soon enough they will see that the support is nowhere to be seen. Unless a big neighbor does something stupid of course.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Instead of blustering like this, the J-government should put some facilities on the islands. If they don´t, it is a question of time until Communist China does. That have a track record for stealing land.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Facism in Japan is not the same as abroad, it is uniquely engineered for Japan. Japan should and will eventually drop the U.S. dependancy leash, agreed. Its what they replace it with thats worrying. They are not a democracy, in the sense that most northern European countries are. As framers for the new Japan constitution have said, the U.S.did not understand Japanese unique culture therefore the present constitution must be changed. Changed to what? Japans culture and past is very complicated, and I dont think its wise to go backwards. The youth of Japan, as you said, are perhaps in tune with our thinking, but they are not the government.

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

Japan is the ONLY country in the world with territorial disputes with ALL of its neighbors. Shameful.

-11 ( +1 / -12 )

Interestingly Japan under Abe is getting cocky and showing off the force to neighbors like Israel. Both Israel and Japan are spoiled and pampered by US. However Israel has never needed to transmit the propaganda youtube like Japan. It has demonstrated the performance of their battle hardened soldiers during the six days war. Hostile neighbors have accepted it is unbeatable. Israel population is many times smaller than Japan. However their men and women are ever ready for real life combat. Japan is not Israel. It is hiding behind US and teasing and intimidating the neighbors.

Old men start the war. Young men died in the war. Old men are cocky. Young men are naive.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

Mike45Oct. 25, 2013 - 08:57AM JST @Ossan, You have missed the mark because of your blind love for Japan.

No it is you who has missed the mark. I hold no "blind love" for Japan or any country in particular, although I have and will continue to support my country. Just so you don't err again, I hold "blind hate" for dictatorships, totalitarianism, racisdm, crime.." just to name a few. Naturally I hold no love for those who support dictatorships.

Their history, value systems and logic are almost identical and they have more in common with each other than with >any country in the West.

This statement could not be made by anyone who has actually studied the history of China and Japan, especially from 1800 onwards.

Both want to be in control and are taking advantage of the new world order in Asia. China is not developed on par >with Western countries, and is acting like an arrogant fool, bullying India, Phillipines and Vietnam,

Japan hasn't wanted to take "control" of Asia for 70 years and the fiscisit milititary dictatorship that allowed it to does not exist. In contrast, it does exist in China today. To compare today's Japan to today's China is absurd.

Its reaction to Japan is a different; its because of a fear of a rising military in Japan. The right wing is playing on these >fears to escalate the tension. It would be in China and Japans best interest to work out, through an intermediary, a >solution that doesnt involve reaction without logic. Once the genie is out (nuclear) then its too late. As far as Japan >being pacifist and never wanting to return to its facist past, sorry I cant buy that one. The revised consitution does >exactly that; bringing back the facisim and squashing any democratic ideals. There is already a facist element in >Japan, driving around in buses and voting for right wing extremist.

The right-wing in Japan are am insignificant bunch who annoy everyone around them, just like neo-nazis groups on Germany opr White Supremacists in my country. Unfortunately, under a democratic system such groups are able to exist. In contrast, the Chinese government itself is a war mongering right-wing state: "Hu Jintao tells China navy: Prepare for warfare" http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-16063607 "China's PLA to Troops: Prepare for War" http://www.voanews.com/content/chinas-peoples-liberation-army-pla-prepare-for-war/1585348.html Now which is the bigger threat? All of Asia, as well as the rest of the world with common sense see China as the bigger "real" threat. What other country in the world openly declares a need to prepare for "war"?

Mike45Oct. 25, 2013 - 10:29AM JST "Sorry but I've been back and forth since the late 1960s, I know Japan's modern history VERY well, whereas you simply parrot the Chinese government propaganda. The "right-wing" in Japan has always been limited to shady organizations and annoying fringe groups, never a mainstream part of the national government;"

Not to be confrontational, but your defense is one we commonly hear; been to Japan many times, etc. You have to >spend residency here and engage, then you only can begin to see how it really is. its always fun to watch the tiger >from behind the glass; entering his habitat is something different and eventually you will get bit.

Sorry but I can gurantee you I have spent more years living IN JAPAN than you have. My observations of Japan aren't all from books like you.

You revealed your limited knowlege with the statement "The "right-wing" in Japan has always been limited to shady ?>organizations and annoying fringe groups, never a mainstream part of the national government" Perhaps I am >mistaken, but I thought that Ishihara was elected mayor of Tokyo several times, and now what is he doing? Hashimoto >was elected mayor of what city?

Incorrect. Tell me what position in national government has been held by Tokyo's Ishihara or Osaka's Hashimoto. These politicians are known for "right-wing views" not active right-wing which are reduced to the nutbags in black trucks as I have stated.

The right wing has for many generations try to implement their neo facist agenda. This is common knowledge to >anybody living in Japan, it goes back for several generations. Facism and Communism are both ideals that jive with t he collective group paternalistic values of both Japan and China.

That's complete hogwash. The right-wing has always been a pariah in Japanese national politics. How did the Japanes public react to Yukio MIshima? How are they reacting to Former Air Marshall Tamogami.? You knowledge of Japan clearly is from "reading" and you clearly have no experience living in Japan.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Well no reason to get uptight about it. Yes, I do live in the here and now, and am aware of my surroundings. wish I was making it up, but unfortuanetly I am not. I can tell your in the states, your too hypersensitive about your position, usually a dead give away your insecure about it. I do admire your passion though, and wish you luck with your continued studies about Japan )

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

So this is part of Abe's vow to improve relations with China and South Korea? And how, pres tel, are they possibly 'defending sovereignty' of Dokdo when those islands are lived on and administered by South Korea? If they were doing that, it would not be an 'exercise', would it? They are South Korean, and that's all there is to it. By Japan's own arguments regarding the Senkakus, there is no island dispute when it comes to Dokdo belonging to SK. Bottom line.

Anyway, all that will happen is they'll waste a WHOLE lot of money for a show over a few rocks in the sea, then when a whole bunch of Chinese ships, probably some of them military, go towards the islands they'll do absolutely nothing -- same as if China took them by force (Dokdo is already South Korean, so it's not like Japan can 'defend a takeover').

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

They are South Korean, and that's all there is to it. By Japan's own arguments regarding the Senkakus, there is no island dispute when it comes to Dokdo belonging to SK. Bottom line.

Well, Well, well, , looks who is reaching. LoL

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Why not use Senkaky & Takeshima islands to dump nuclear waste from Fukushima? Then all 3 won't have to worry about these islands anymore.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

SamuraiBlue: "Well, Well, well, , looks who is reaching. LoL"

That doesn't even make any sense.

How can Japan defend something that doesn't belong to it? You'll notice they conveniently left out 'defense of the sovereign Northern Territories'.

-8 ( +1 / -9 )

Look as if someone is desperate. A nation and people that can't admit the truth, going for land grab by force when Japan had vowed to not do harm. A nation that back step a treaty of peace. A nation that denies judgement through international moderation through ICJ. A nation that white wash their own history.

A nation that can't face FACT.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

OssanAmerica said:

"I hold "blind hate" for dictatorships, totalitarianism, racisdm, crime.." just to name a few. Naturally I hold no love for those who support dictatorships."

Do you hate or love those who worship dictators ?

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

Mike45Oct. 25, 2013 - 10:03PM JST Well no reason to get uptight about it. Yes, I do live in the here and now, and am aware of my surroundings. wish I >was making it up, but unfortuanetly I am not. I can tell your in the states, your too hypersensitive about your position, >usually a dead give away your insecure about it. I do admire your passion though, and wish you luck with your >continued studies about Japan )

Your arguments about the "right-wing" are incorrect as I have proven. So now you claim that I am "insecure"? You rely on reading anti-Japan sources as the basis of your views rather than first hand experience, and flood a forum with constant anti-Japan postings. Seems to me that it;s you who is insecure. Yes I live in the US but spend considerale time in Japan every year. You obviously don't.

mulanOct. 26, 2013 - 12:25AM JST OssanAmerica said: "I hold "blind hate" for dictatorships, totalitarianism, racisdm, crime.." just to name a few. Naturally I hold no love for those who support dictatorships." Do you hate or love those who worship dictators ?

My statement is very clear and explicit, is it not?

1 ( +4 / -3 )

People have to remember that articles like the this, that focus on how China's neighbors are moving to address Chinese aggression in regards to territorial disputes are going to bring out the paid Chinese commentators known as the 50 cent army. The name is because they are paid 50 cents for every pro-Chinese post. The NY Times is running piece today on how Chinese are slowing taking over the Spratly Island hundreds of miles from China and right next to the Philippines. China is an aggressor in regards to boarder disputes, with every single Chinese neighbor having territory that China has claimed, often by using maps from 1000 years ago as proof. And as a totalitarian state they see no wrong in using their large numbers of paid propagandist to go out and flood comment boards to shape the debate. Japan is correct in holding these exercises as you train to fight, not wait until you have to fight to train.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Japan readies huge island war games

Good. I trust China will get the message.

Too bad those here who pretend to speak for China will not.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

OssanAmerica said :

"My statement is very clear and explicit, is it not?"

So you hate those who worship the 12 war criminal dictators. So you hate those who stole or grabbed other's land by way of dictatorships.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

Japan trying to spark a naval clash by sending their naval forces in front of Dokdo and Ullungdo, then sailing around the Korean island of Ullungdo, flexing their muscles and showing off, 747 times since 2006. They're doing exactly the same thing as what they accuse China of doing against Japan, in the disputed southern islands.

http://news.hankooki.com/lpage/politics/201310/h2013102522003921060.htm

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

@mulan "What money ?"

China has built airports, Bridges, hospitals,,,etc,with the Grant and ODA total from Japan which is 3,500,000,000,000 Yen so far. In 1965, for Korea, when $1 was 360 Yen, That was paid for all the issues till 1945 to resolve, paid by US$. That was $800,000,000 plus $5,300,000,000 of asset. President Park's father signed that says, the all issues till 1945 has been solved completely and forever. Ms.Park should learn what the former president of Korea did. That is her father otherwise, her saying in DC,"the nation which does not see its past will have no future"makes it for her own lesson. I think it is

"If Japan has confidence, she should return the Senkakus back to UN and let the world vote to whom the Islands belong to."

Japan will win for the Senkaku issue if it gets in a legal process. I hope you have read San Francisco peace treaty which reset Japan as the part of the world again after several years'work with all allies, and signed by 48 countries. Japan was not in the position saying or influencing the treaty but receiving a verdict from the world. The article 3 conspicuously states Senkaku all 5 islands are the part of Japan also Takeshima as well according to the article 3.

If anyone thinks it finds some error in the treaty, the law exists for that reason, basically it saying that -When it finds an error or asserts the invalidity of a treaty, the announcement to the country directly concerned is required by the Vienna Convention on the law of treaties article 65, However, no government or any nation have filed a complaint or made an announcement of error invalidity of the treaty until today as of today 2013/10/26 include China and Korea. If China has really believes what they started to claim around 1970 after the oil was found is sincerely true, China can sue Japan at ICJ in stead of sending ships and plains to Japan territory to provoke. I much prefer seeing that way than any military activity from any nation include Japan. But Japan needs to defend from those invading actions. So China should not give any reason to Japan to do this kind of game.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Am I the only one that finds it odd that Japan is the one that has so many island disputes? With China, Taiwan, Korea and Russia ?

Kind of makes you wonder what kind of neighbour Japan is..(I mean the country and it's leaders not ordinary people..but if they start buying into the political propoganda of their leaders out of ignorance, what a worrying region it will become..)

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

Military tensions and even some minor outbursts of battles in this region are good for the US economy. $ell billions of dollars worth of bombs, missiles, fighter jets etc. to Japan, S. Korea, Taiwan, Vietnam, the Philippines and whoever is afraid of China. Washington really needs to pay Beijing a 10% commission.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

I think it is time for Japan to regain its honor by restoring its military prowess back to its former glory. It is either that or become economically and militarily subjugated by an increasingly aggressive China.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

@Guru29

Article 8 of the Potsdam Declaration (terms of surrender for Japan) says this: "The terms of the Cairo Declaration shall be carried out and Japanese sovereignty shall be limited to the islands of Honshu, Hokkaido, Kyushu, Shikoku and such minor islands as we ( US, UK, China and Russia) determine."

Article 8 of the Potsdam Declaration had been released before San Francisco peace treaty was issued. That means a newer document dominates the case according to the International law. The article 3 has been effective since 1951 and the article 8 has lost its power in terms of territorial issues. Therefore, Senkaku and Takeshima are legally Japan according to the article 3 composed by the international world which produced the exit for WW2. Potsdam Declaration is the one of the steps.

"During a private dinner with the Chiangs on the evening of November 23, President Roosevelt asked Chiang China's intentions regarding the Ryukyu Islands.

Is this a story from 1943? at this dinner, China said NO.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

smithinjapan

How can Japan defend something that doesn't belong to it?

Historically legally, and reality,it belongs to Japan.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

chucky3176Oct. 26, 2013 - 02:05AM JST Japan trying to spark a naval clash by sending their naval forces in front of Dokdo and Ullungdo, then sailing around >the Korean island of Ullungdo, flexing their muscles and showing off, 747 times since 2006. They're doing exactly the >same thing as what they accuse China of doing against Japan, in the disputed southern islands. http://news.hankooki.com/lpage/politics/201310/h2013102522003921060.htm

chucky, you have that completely backwards:

"South Korean military forces have incited the ire of Japan by conducting a ‘defensive drill’ at an outcrop of islands" http://rt.com/news/south-korea-islands-exercises-733/ http://www.arirang.co.kr/News/News_View.asp?nseq=152584

0 ( +3 / -3 )

@Chamkun

ODA is loan, it has to be returned, not free. Japan ODA to China is $35 billions. Japan war compensation is $480 billion in 1940s money, could be over $1 trillion by today's money.

When you talk dispute about Senkaku/DiaoYu with China, San Francisco peace treaty isn't applicable because China is not party of it.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

4649Julian: "Historically legally, and reality,it belongs to Japan."

Even if that were true, and it's debatable, it doesn't matter now any more than someone from the Ryukyus saying they are a sovereign nation. It is Dokdo, not Takeshima, and that's all there is to it. It's silly to hold a drill to 'defend' islands that are LITERALLY inhabited by South Koreans. And again, you didn't touch on my point that this drill didn't talk about 'defending' the Kuriles. Now why is that?

Ossan: "chucky, you have that completely backwards:"

Ah, so when the shoe's on the other foot it's not acceptable, eh? I love it how people screech about SK and Japan and Russia going to some non-binding world court is a must, but if it's about the Senkakus, suddenly it's not necessary because it is a "non-issue". I love how people say the Senkakus belong to Japan because Japan administers them, but when you point out that when it comes to Dokdo or the Kuriles people ACTUALLY live on them, let alone other nations administering them, it is suddenly 'different' and should be taken to a world court. The latter islands are not Japanese, bottom line, regardless of if they were at some point in the past (taken aggressively or not).

These drills are meant for one thing: to push Abe's nationalistic agenda and threaten Japan's neighbours, as Japan has done in the past. Abe's vows to improve ties with Japan and South Korea have been nothing but 100% transparent lip-service, and this helps prove it.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

@Ossan,

Read those 2 books I suggested for you, come live in Japan, and you will "see" what is going on. I was once like you, and Im not a Japan hater. Japan has enormous potential, but there is a strong element that you are unaware of or deny due to ignorance. Your comment about Ishihara not holding any significant post; yes he has. He was in the Diet, then a mayor now back to the Diet. His son is also a member. Quoting Mishima or the JSDF Air marshal who made extremist comments shows your disconnect with the situation in Japan. The books that I have read are not to make me a scholar of all things Japan, its to help me make sense of the situation and an alternative to white washing propaganda. The writers spent many years here and enormous amounts of research. What goes on here affects us directly, sitting in another country and commenting with a horse in the race seems a bit odd, but there are many who have a nostalgic connection to Japan. Its my last post on this matter as Im sure youll get a rise out of this. read up some more...gambatte kudasai )

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

As Japan proceeds with its war games, keep this in mind. Japanese warfare was at its best when the Japanese were fighting each other in their countless internecine wars. Beyond that, the Japanese have largely been military screw-ups. Yes, they beat Russia once, but everyone one beat Russia when they did not try invading it.

The last thing we need is a war between Japan and China, or whoever.

Those territorial disputes that has caused conflict between China, South Korea and Russia are not worth a bad night's, much less a war.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

smithinjapanOct. 26, 2013 - 09:16AM JST Ossan: "chucky, you have that completely backwards:"

Ah, so when the shoe's on the other foot it's not acceptable, eh?

No, chucky's post was backwards based on the latest news.

I love it how people screech about SK and Japan and Russia going to some non-binding world court is a must, but if >it's about the Senkakus, suddenly it's not necessary because it is a "non-issue".

You still can't grasp the concept that the claimant is the one who has to file a claim. In the case of the Senlkakuis, only China can suggest settling at the ICJ. But they simply haven't because to do so would invite other nations such as Vietnam and the Philippines to take China to the ICJ.

I love how people say the Senkakus belong to Japan because Japan administers them, but when you point out that >when it comes to Dokdo or the Kuriles people ACTUALLY live on them, let alone other nations administering them, it >is suddenly 'different' and should be taken to a world court. The latter islands are not Japanese, bottom line, >regardless of if they were at some point in the past (taken aggressively or not).

Takeshima was taken aggressively by South Korea. There was no one on these islands until South Korea took them by force and stationed people on them in 1954. The Southern Kuriles were taken by force AFTER Japan surrendered and the Japanese inhabitants rounded up and deported. And these were islands that were never taken by force and therefore should have remained part of Japan under the Potsdam Agreement. The United States considers Takeshima to have been taken by South Korea illegally. The United States also considers the Southern Kuriles to be Japanese territory under Russian administration. Your hatred for Japan blinds you to differentiating between right and wrong.

These drills are meant for one thing: to push Abe's nationalistic agenda and threaten Japan's neighbours, as Japan >has done in the past. Abe's vows to improve ties with Japan and South Korea have been nothing but 100% >?>transparent lip-service, and this helps prove it.

These drills are meant to prepare to take back island territory that may be taken by another country. China's actions regarding the Senkakus and South Koreas' attitude towards Takeshima are what makes this necessary. South Korea conducts drills over a disputed island and you find fault with Japan? Can you be any more biased?

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Ah, so when the shoe's on the other foot it's not acceptable, eh? I love it how people screech about SK and Japan and Russia going to some non-binding world court is a must, but if it's about the Senkakus, suddenly it's not necessary because it is a "non-issue". I love how people say the Senkakus belong to Japan because Japan administers them, but when you point out that when it comes to Dokdo or the Kuriles people ACTUALLY live on them, let alone other nations administering them, it is suddenly 'different' and should be taken to a world court. The latter islands are not Japanese, bottom line, regardless of if they were at some point in the past (taken aggressively or not).

Smith. Too many logical fallacies to point out.

First of all, Japan is a signatory to Declarations Recognizing the Jurisdiction of the Court as Compulsory which as the title states, declared themselves that they would aide by the decision made by the U.N. sanctioned court. Korea is not. China is not. In other words, both Korea and China have declared themselves that they don't recognize the authority of the International Court of Justice.

Secondly,in regards to Senkaku, a defendant does not file a suit on behalf of the Plaintiff. I don't know how much simpler I can put this.

Finally, Japan's position that they own Senkaku's because they currently administers them, is false. You can start by reading here.

http://www.mofa.go.jp/region/asia-paci/senkaku/qa_1010.html

1 ( +6 / -5 )

smithinjapan

Even if that were true, and it's debatable,

They are true. Is it debatable? Yes, I agree with you. This is not the space to go over every historical details from 512 AD. I would not do here. We all humans say based on the information we have had till this moment, I do not think I disagree with you personally but the information I have and yours is different. I studied the documents mainly from Korea and I realized how the information that is given to Koreans today is so selective from their own historical documents. That is a historical part. After studying Korean documents, I could see some essential cause of the problem. I believe Dokto is Korean's but Takeshima and Dokto is not the same island.

Legal level? There is no room to debate. It is Japan according to International Law, unless some nation challenges to specify an error of San Francisco treaty.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Article 8 of the Potsdam Declaration had been released before San Francisco peace treaty was issued. That means a newer document dominates the case according to the International law.

The fact is that the San Francisco peace treaty was drafted based on the Potsdam Declaration (terms of surrender for Japan) and decisions made in other conferences such as the Cairo Conference and Yalta Conference. So your argument that the San Francisco peace treaty has invalidated the Potsdam Declaration is certainly wrong.

The article 3 has been effective since 1951

Article 3 of the San Francisco Peace Treaty says this:

"Japan will concur in any proposal of the United States to the United Nations to place under its trusteeship system, with the United States as the sole administering authority, Nansei Shoto south of 29 deg. north latitude (that's the Ryukyu islands but excluding the Diaoyu Islands which are located further south between latitude 25 to 26 degree north latitude )..."

And the origin of Article 3 of the San Francisco Peace Treaty can be traced to the following agreement made during the Cairo Conference:

"During a private dinner with the Chiangs on the evening of November 23, President Roosevelt asked Chiang China's intentions regarding the Ryukyu Islands. According to the memorandum written by the Chinese side (Roosevelt's special assistant Harry Hopkins was present but did not apparently take notes), "The President referred to the question of the Ryukyu Islands and enquired more than once whether China would want the Ryukyus." To this, Chiang reportedly replied that "China would be agreeable to joint occupation of the Ryukyus by China and the United States and, eventually, joint administration by the two countries under the trusteeship of an international organization (UN trusteeship for decolonization)""

So the fact is Article 3 of the San Francisco Peace Treaty has got nothing to do with the Diaoyu Islands which are located between 25 to 26 degree north latitude.

The treaty however says Japan must give up its claim on the Ryukyu islands, the long island chain in-between Japan and the Diaoyu Islands for the US to hand over it to the United Nations under the UN trusteeship system (UN system for decolonization) for future independence.

And the UN trusteeship system did help many former colonies throughout the world to gain independence since its foundation as can be seen from its website:

http://www.un.org/en/decolonization/nonselfgov.shtml

And from Wikipedia,

"The United Nations Trusteeship Council, one of the principal organs of the United Nations, was established to help ensure that trust territories were administered in the best interests of their inhabitants and of international peace and security. The trust territories—most of them former mandates of the League of Nations or territories taken from nations defeated at the end of World War II—have all now attained self-government or independence, either as separate nations or by joining neighbouring independent countries."

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Guru, The People's Republic of China rejects the San Francisco Peace Treaty as "invalid". So repeatedly filling the boards with your lengthy copy & paste job is really pointless if you want to support the Chinese position.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Japan trying to spark a naval clash by sending their naval forces in front of Dokdo and Ullungdo, then sailing around the Korean island of Ullungdo, flexing their muscles and showing off, 747 times since 2006. They're doing exactly the same thing as what they accuse China of doing against Japan, in the disputed southern islands.

http://news.hankooki.com/lpage/politics/201310/h2013102522003921060.htm

Good point. But it's okay when Japan does it though.. didn't you know?

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Mitch CohenOct. 27, 2013 - 06:17AM JST "Japan trying to spark a naval clash by sending their naval forces in front of Dokdo and Ullungdo, then sailing around the Korean island of Ullungdo, flexing their muscles and showing off, 747 times since 2006. They're doing exactly the same thing as what they accuse China of doing against Japan, in the disputed southern islands." http://news.hankooki.com/lpage/politics/201310/h2013102522003921060.htm Good point. But it's okay when Japan does it though.. didn't you know?

Is Japan really doing the same thing that China is doing? China sends Coat Guard ship in and out of the Senkaku waters on a daily basis. Is Japan doing that at Takeshima? No. Japan has suggested 3 times to settle the Takeshima issue at the ICJ, and South Korea jas refused all 3 timres. China has not suggested to Japan to settle the issue at the ICJ even once. There are no people on the Senkakus and Japanese law prohibits people from landing there. South Korea has people and Coat Guard on Takesahima that they put there after illegally taking the islands in 1954. Clearly, the notion that Japan is doing what China is a doing is factually incorrect. As for drills, considering that South Korea has already illegally occupied Takeshima what exactly is the point of whining about Japan conducting drills near it?

1 ( +3 / -2 )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t78GO7efdYM

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The fact is that the San Francisco peace treaty was drafted based on the Potsdam Declaration (terms of surrender for Japan) and decisions made in other conferences such as the Cairo Conference and Yalta Conference. So your argument that the San Francisco peace treaty has invalidated the Potsdam Declaration is certainly wrong.

Yes, it was based on. It can be said as a treaty, it is the conclusion to the declarations you mentioned, putting the final decision onto such problems as Article 8 into treaty form. Certainly, it'll be a absurdist interpretation to insist that Article 8 is a legal basis for China, or even all the signing powers in concert, to arbitrarily change the minor islands held by Japan even after signing a peace treaty.

(that's the Ryukyu islands but excluding the Diaoyu Islands which are located further south between latitude 25 to 26 degree north latitude )

Wow, that's really pushing it. You will notice that no lower limit was placed on the Nansei Shoto. If Japan had a island in the equator that is historically part of Nansei Shoto, it'll still be affected.

Besides, you may want to consider the consequences of your proposal - if the Nansei Shoto does not include the Senkaku islands, then because the treaty made no provision for any status change, it'll remain Japanese (not that it isn't Japanese with the current interpretation, but you are basically kicking yourself here).

The treaty however says Japan must give up its claim on the Ryukyu islands, the long island chain in-between Japan and the Diaoyu Islands for the US to hand over it to the United Nations under the UN trusteeship system (UN system for decolonization) for future independence.

It doesn't quite say that. It says if the US makes such a proposal, Japan has to agree. Also, the part you don't quote says that if the US doesn't make such a proposal, the islands will be administered by the US (but the very fact Japan can even make such an agreement indicates an acknowledgement and affirmation of where sovereignty really lies).

@Mike45

Your comment about Ishihara not holding any significant post; yes he has. He was in the Diet, then a mayor now back to the Diet.

Well, I'm not going to pretend the right wing doesn't exist, but it is very much a minority force. Look at the enduring, 50 year struggle to make the defence provisions in the Constitution more reasonable (by international standards) and you'll see how little power they actually have.

Besides, I think Americans make too much of what is really a matter of historical perception, and most people attack Ishihara and his kin based on the most superficial knowledge. Think, how many people really studied the source material et al to decide whether oh, the Rape of Nanking really happened or how many people died. Most likely, they just heard about it in History class or watched Discovery channel or at most read Chiang's famous book. On the basis of that low level of personal knowledge, they attack anyone saying different. Is that right?

1 ( +2 / -1 )

@Kazuaki,

Chinese and Japanese both are very good at whitewashing events as they occured to fit whatever agenda they are pushing. Im not interested in yours, or theirs, version of events. The truth is out there, usually written in English, then translated to mislead others. Its sometimes a struggle, but with effort, you can always get back to the source.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Japan must increase the GDP to twice to escape from the danger!

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

This is simply not right. Nico Nico wants some of this action.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Speaking of PR, Korea Ministry of Foreign Affairs had used on their website a "Dokdo is ours" video that included unauthorized use of footage from NHK's drama (坂の上の雲) depicting a scene of Japan Russo war.

Steal the island. Steal the footage. Steal whatever. Just a normal day in Korea.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Sounds like a nice plump lawsuit coming up.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Guru29

Again, the treaty was rewritten many time, so the latest version has only its effectiveness.

Senkaku is included despite of your counter argument. Do you think the US used Chinese territory for America's bombing range? The two of Senkaku were used as the bombing range of USA. Why Senkaku is covered by under Japan US treaty? Why the official name of these islands are called SENKAKU in USA?

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it -

Mr Abe seems to be sleepwalking into a conflict he cannot possibly win. This is not 1934 China is now a united country with an enormous standing army navy and air force that is professional and motivated.

I am neither Japanese or Chinese but I know if Japan wanted to stand up to China it would take China about one week to win. The incumbent US president leads from behind and would not intervene who else is going to jump in and stop that fight Europe no, Russia no, SE Asia unlikely.

If Abe thinks he is Mrs Thatcher and can get a Falklands bounce he better dye his hair blonde and wear a skirt China is not Argentina.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

robin37Oct. 30, 2013 - 06:08PM JST "Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it -"

Absolutely, So with all this harping on WWII why is China following he path of Imperial Japan and determined to become the dominant power in Asia and to evict the United States from the western Pacific?

but I know if Japan wanted to stand up to China it would take China about one week to win. The incumbent US >president leads from behind and would not intervene who else is going to jump in and stop that fight Europe no, >Russia no, SE Asia unlikely.

Only I your fantasies. The only way China could "win" in a week is to resort to nuclear war, in which case the United States will respond and China will cease to exist. An all out war is the last thing China wants.

If Abe thinks he is Mrs Thatcher and can get a Falklands bounce he better dye his hair blonde and wear a skirt China >is not Argentina.

Yes, Argentina is much nicer than China.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

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