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Japan rejects South Korean protest over school textbooks' descriptions

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Why not just say that the islands are disputed, and give a short synopsis of the two arguments?

After all, the books are supposed to educate.

29 ( +35 / -6 )

South Korea is complaining about Japanese education when they're indoctrinating their children to hate Japan. There are children in South Korea who drew crayon pictures of Japan being nuked, and a district tried to make it mandatory to put stickers in classrooms that say “This device was made by a war criminal”. Three years ago, people in South Korea were harassing a US official for having a moustache similar to a long dead Japanese general's and trying to break into the Japanese consulate. I experienced this firsthand when I was growing up and my own parents constantly reminded me of what Japan did seventy years.

South Korea doesn't have a right to judge when it's teaching its own kids to hate.

23 ( +44 / -21 )

The mature approach would be for textbooks on both sides to state the facts and teach the children to think for themselves.

I suggest a whole chapter on territorial disputes (there are enough and it would be an interesting topic) - Both Japan and South Korea claim the island. Japan’s position is X, Korea’s position is Y.

Both sides saying “It’s mine”, “No, it’s mine” sounds like a pair of five year olds arguing and achieves nothing.

20 ( +26 / -6 )

Re: [Both sides do air of whitewashing, neither side can point the finger and Japan also doesn’t have the best reputation when it comes to historical events, it also tries to rewrite history in many ways when it comes to its role as an aggressor during WWII],

history is always from the perspective of each side. There is no total truth. I think the U.S. president who dropped a genocidal atomic bomb is a war criminal. At the same time, Japan has made sure not to repeat the mistakes of the past and has apologized over and over and over. It is time to move forward and learn from the past. Non-Japanese readers have not read current Japanese books used in schools. Each school has several options to choose from. Each teacher adds his or her perspectives in a non-biased way. In Japan, children are not taught to hate other people. The director of the movie "Drive My Car" invited the Korean actors and actresses to the awards. This is the Japan of now. Most young people are more interested in the EU and U.S. and advancing their careers at a time R&D investment has significantly decreased in Japan. Racists statements at work will result in discipline and potential termination. When we went to Cheju Island to celebrate our division achieving a significant goal, our business director stressed the importance of behaving in a dignified manner. Quite frankly, it is getting old to get complaints from Korea.

20 ( +31 / -11 )

I think that at this point Japan and South Korea could at least agree that the islands are disputed but that also the other nation will educate their populace differently.

That is the only dispute. That in a school book in one nation, they claim sovereignty.

Looks like some people have to quarrel no matter what.

17 ( +18 / -1 )

Give it a rest, Japan.

Kuril Islands belong to Russia.

Senkaku islands belong to China.

Liancourt Rocks belong to Korea.

Notice the common element in these disputes? Hint: It's not Russia, China and Korea.

Lol, you’re basing an argument on the claim that Japan is “the common element,” meanwhile, of the three countries you mention one of them (China) has more ongoing border disputes than literally any other country on the planet and the other you mention (Russia) has actually annexed territory from a sovereign country very recently and is now in the middle of a full-scale invasion. That is not to say I am siding any particular way and I admittedly don’t know enough about Dokdo to have an opinion, but I definitely know that this logic is cheap.

15 ( +18 / -3 )

Here we go again, backlash by none other than South Korea.

Young Korean generation has been always controlled by South Korea Gov. The way they think/speak toward Japan are all based on what they were taught in school, and their patriotic films/books etc. whereas young Japanese don't even care about South Korea as they're more into American/European lifestyle.

14 ( +42 / -28 )

See my posts above regarding the Kuril Island and Dokdo dispute.

Japan's arguments are extremely weak.

Except that you didn’t post Japan’s argument/legal opinion (and you didn’t post Korea’s either for that matter).

12 ( +14 / -2 )

I don't know any major country except Japan that whitewashes their history. Americans might not talk a lot about what we did to the natives 

Ypu do realize that is what whitewashing history is!

letsberealistic almost insulting take on the Native American genocide is a living example of the pot calling the kettle black.

12 ( +13 / -1 )

The Liancourt Rocks are a symbol of Korean nationalism. The first time Trump talked to Kim Jong Un, South Korea cancelled its joint military drill with the U.S. along the border, yet it still did its regular drill on the rocks "in case of an invasion from Japan".

Don't you think it's telling and shameful that the Japanese need to be told to behave in a dignified manner? You need to be threatened to behave well while Koreans need no such warning.

You apparently have never read coffee's comments.

Also, Koreans don't have a problem with individual Japanese people (Except your leaders). 

A survey in South Korea found that almost half of all South Koreans would side with North Korea in a war against Japan, while 40% said "I don't know".

11 ( +14 / -3 )

Let those paper tigers shout. They just need that regularly anti-Japanese propaganda doses to motivate youth and working population for getting them studying and working harder and keeping the economy running there. It’s the special South Korean propaganda version to create a willing workforce, comparable and similar to those motivating from-dishwasher-to-millionaire fairytales in the US.

9 ( +15 / -6 )

Yes, well the moral of the story for Japanese children is; never invade and subjugate, rape and murder people in another country because it will never be forgotten and your people and nation are unlikely to ever be seen as anything other than war criminals unless you make efforts to apologise sincerely.

Is this moral applicable to children of all countries? Cuz for the sake of consistency, it seems that there are a lot of countries (including my own), that have done everything you mentioned but have been able (and continue to) successfully whitewash their own cruel history with virtually no repercussion.

9 ( +12 / -3 )

Of course. Why would it be any different? I'm not sure what you mean.

I ask because if I was a Japanese, I couldn’t help but notice the double standard.

Apples and oranges comparison there. Neither nation subjugated, enslaved, rapped and killed the other as Japan did to Korea.

My dude! I hope you are able to recognize the irony here!! You are literally whitewashing history in the very same thread you claim to be condemning the very same. And regarding my other statement, you couldn’t have proved my point any better. I say this as a proud American, you owe it to yourself to do some reading.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

Do the South Korean text books teach that if it wasn't for US intervention they would be North Koreans now?

8 ( +11 / -3 )

And the Stubbornness continues. S. Korea needs to mind it's own affairs and stop interfering.

7 ( +18 / -11 )

Japan rejects South Korean protest over school textbooks' descriptions

Here we go agaaaain. What happened to the new SK PM's message about looking to the future?

7 ( +14 / -7 )

When I first came to Japan, this was one of the issues that surprised me which I didn’t know much about. Can you imagine Canada and America angrily criticizing one another’s schoolbooks?

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Sounds a little like mainland China claiming Taiwan to me.

Any people on the islands should decide.

If no people, take the case to international court and let that process decide.

Disagreements over the islands seems like kids fighting over a marble on the playground.

There are lots of disagreements between countries over land - the US-Canada have some on the east and west coasts. Fighting over a marble on the playground.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

letsberealisticToday  12:40 pm JST

BackpackingNepalToday  06:56 am JST*

Here we go again, backlash by none other than South Korea.

Young Korean generation has been always controlled by South Korea Gov. The way they think/speak toward Japan are all based on what they were taught in school, and their patriotic films/books etc. whereas young Japanese don't even care about South Korea as they're more into American/European lifestyle.

Oh right. So nothing to do with the fact Japan caused great suffering to Koreans for 25 years under an oppressive and cruel annexation including the enslavement, rape and murder of thousands of Koreans.

As opposed to your posting name, you seem posting unrealistic comments

Since peaceful annexation treaty was concluded by both nations, Japan abolished Korean-slave system and treated all equally.

Japan started compulsory education for all who were unable to go to school due to their ex-salve status or poverty. Seoul Univ was the 2nd Imperial university established only after Tokyo Univ.

Life expectancy, population on the peninsula doubled during such short 26 years.

And yet, you and your ilk never face factual records and calling Japanese evil invaders . What is ironical, is the fact many Koreans, despite restrictions to slow down the immigrants, chose to come to such Japan willingly for better lives.

“But, at that time, we chose it by ourselves. It is not Japan invaded our land. Our ancestors chose it. If we chose Qing Dynasty that soon perished, we would have had more chaos on the peninsula. If we chose Russia that soon got overturned, we would have had the entire peninsula turned to a communist country. It might not be the best but if we were to chose, I valued choosing Japan as second best.”

President of Korea Chunghee Park

 

“I was born in a family of a very poor farmer and so I could never dreamed of going to school. It was a Japanese official who persuaded my parents to send me to primary school. And it was a Japanese teacher who recommended me to the Japanese Army War College. The reason I am here today is because of the compulsory education system they introduced, and because of the clean and honest Japanese people”

President of Korea Chunghee Park

6 ( +14 / -8 )

TeslaInvestorToday  09:20 am JST

Seems I have no takers.

Ok, let's move on to the Dokdo dispute.

The Sejong-Sillok (세종실록, "Chronicle of King Sejong", 1432) mentions Usando,[15][16] but interpretation of the context is disputed. The text is interpreted as follows: "Usando (우산도 于山島) and Mureungdo (무릉도 武陵島, a former name of Ulleungdo), in the sea due east of Uljin Prefecture, are close enough to each other to be mutually visible in clear weather at the top of the mountain".

This historical passage is earliest record of Dokdo in existence.

The debate then boils down to what each of the names, Uganda and Mureungdo, mean.

The arguments from both sides are as follows:

South Korea insists that this constitutes clear evidence that Usan-do refers to the Liancourt Rocks, the only island that is visible from Ulleungdo only in clear weather.[16] Japan, however, holds that the latter part as "come into view from mainland Korea," believing that it refers instead to Jukdo, located two kilometers east of Ulleungdo.[17]South Korea counters that Jukdo is only 2 kilometers apart from Ulleung-Do and therefore is visible regardless of altitude or weather, as well as that the passage is clearly written in the context of the two islands mutually, rather than in relation to the Korean mainland, as established in "相去不遠," "相" meaning "mutually."

You can see from the Japanese side that their arguments are not based on academic integrity but on bad faith, nationalist misinterpretation of historical texts. There is no way the passages are referring to Jukdo as claims by the Japanese side, as the island of Ulleung-Do is only 2 KM away and is visible regardless of altitude.

 

You are simply pushing Korean narrative only.

 

于山武陵二島在県正東海中. 二島相去不遠 . 風日清明則可望見.

There are 3 sentences here.

"Usando (우산도 于山島) and Mureungdo (무릉도 武陵島, a former name of Ulleungdo), in the sea due east of Uljin Prefecture.

“These two islands are not far apart from each other”

“We can see (these two islands) in a day of good weather”

 

Hence back to Japan narrative, which is more natural translation. Korean narrative is self-righteous twisting simple sentences. Ask Chinese around you, which I did.

5 ( +10 / -5 )

TeslaInvestorToday  08:25 am JST

Japanese people assaulting Koreans isn't an uncommon occurrence. A few years back, some right-winger assaulted an underaged Korean kid.

"isn't uncommon" "A few years back". Kind of defeated your own argument there suggesting something is common then describing something from a few years back.

When we went to Cheju Island to celebrate our division achieving a significant goal, our business director stressed the importance of behaving in a dignified manner. Quite frankly, it is getting old to get complaints from Korea.

Don't you think it's telling and shameful that the Japanese need to be told to behave in a dignified manner? You need to be threatened to behave well while Koreans need no such warning.

It is rather obvious that the Japanese were neither told nor threatened, they were advised to remain dignified and and not to react if provoked. You just turned it around to suit your own narrative.

There are many cases of western leaders and academics being visited by Japanese delegates or right-wingers who demand that they retract their paper or change certain things in their textbooks. When western academics and leaders tell Japan to bug off, these Japanese individuals act shamefully and start screaming like a gorilla.

Where can I read reliable accounts of these incidents?

5 ( +11 / -6 )

@tesla

You just picked only a part from「世宗実録」地理誌(1545年) for self -righteous interpretation

5 ( +8 / -3 )

Time to forgive and forget, leave the past behind and cooperate.

4 ( +8 / -4 )

Blah blah blah... and the story of these two never end.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Once Japan and Korea where great trading partner. The Korean even integrated with the Japanese Islanders and introduced wet rice farming all was cool with the two nations for millennias until then Han Empire turn up. Relationship went south between the mainlanders and the Islanders since. The Han try to even invade twice and the Islander repelled the Barbarians which the Islanders refer to them because of their preference to eat lamb.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Why not just say that the islands are disputed, and give a short synopsis of the two arguments?

Because all public education exists to indoctrinate the citizens to the current regime's ideals. "The Truth" is a very valuable, rare thing and you have to go out and discover it yourself.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

TeslaInvestorToday  03:14 pm JST

KennyG

The Tottori replied:

Takeshima(Ulleungdo) does not belong to Inaba (因幡) or Hōki (伯耆). "No other islands belong to the domain, including Takeshima (Ulleungdo) and Matsushima(Dokdo).[24]"

Your self-righteous interpretation here too.

4 ( +8 / -4 )

You can see from the Japanese side that their arguments are not based on academic integrity but on bad faith, nationalist misinterpretation of historical texts. There is no way the passages are referring to Jukdo as claims by the Japanese side, as the island of Ulleung-Do is only 2 KM away and is visible regardless of altitude.

*Therefore, your argument that Jukdo is visible from Ulleung-Do anyway is totally meaningless*

3 ( +9 / -6 )

TeslaInvestorToday  02:52 pm JST

kennyG

The key word is "*mutually**".*

These two islands are mutually close to each other.

These two islands are mutually not far apart from each other.

Yes. Mutually in 2 sentence. So???

That does not make your 3rd sentence attached into 2nd sentence by "enough~to see" as like enough close to see the other.

3rd sentence is 3rd sentence.

3 ( +8 / -5 )

@Tesla

By the way, we could see the island or the land, or the see with our naked eyes, so they are all mine!!

wouldn't work in claiming territorial titles and you know that.

Besides, Korean narratives never substantiate the very premise enough that Usando (우산도 于山島) is Liancort Rocks

3 ( +9 / -6 )

Who controls Dokdo right now? Korea. Japan doesn't. Japan can't defend its own territories, and so they will lose them. Might is right.

So should Japan attack Koreans or Russians to take them back you are suggesting?

3 ( +7 / -4 )

"It is natural for children to understand their country's territory and history accurately through education in a sovereign nation," he said.

It is a sad thing to see a country attempt to alter historical facts when teaching the young. Failure to be truthful leaves these student at a disadvantage when they go out into the world and information they learned is wrong. This is cause for embarrassment when they learn the truth from other world sources and causes them shame when they realise their government is responsible for altering shameful facts to try and save face and to ignore painful truth.

It is not just South Korea that knows workers, prisoners of war and women, were FORCED at gunpoint to slave away and work for the Japanese military and Japanese companies.

I feel sad for both the children who will be poorly educated in history, and for the government that can still not accept the shame of Japans past behavior. Sweeping it under the carpet will not make it disappear. The world knows all the facts and will continue to make Japan and Japanese aware of that, generation after generation for as long as lies are taught about it in Schools.

Often commenters wonder why these things continue to come up after happening so long ago. it is precisely in order to refute the incorrect teachings of your schools and to ensure the truth continues to be spoken.

2 ( +9 / -7 )

Depending on the school and the teacher, history will be taught differently.

When I was a student, my high school mentioned about comfort women and Japan's actions during the war and my teacher was actually very passionate about talking about this topic. I learnt a lot about this area because there was a whole class discussion around it.

My nephew's school did not teach much about it at all, but the young generation is so in love with Korean culture these days that some seem to find out eventually on their own.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

letsberealisticToday  02:30 pm JST

Nobody disputes most of what you point out here, however, just because Korea developed as a result of Japan's forced occupation does not negate the, not few, crimes they committed while there

The biggest political party demanded such annexation and PM of Imperial-Korea signed on the annexation treaty. Korea asked for it and had agreed to be annexed. You don't call it forced occupation. Because forced occupations done by western powers were more or less like what you describe, it doesn't mean Japan's was the same.

Refer to the statements made by former President of Korea Chunghee Park.

1 ( +10 / -9 )

Kyo wa heiwa dayo neToday  01:03 pm JST

What's ironic is Koreans migrated to Japan thousands of years ago .

Cant deny their DNA heritage.

Time to bury the hatchet on that old issue.

Well, we all came from Africa, so let's just bury the hatchet on all existing issues that ever existed, shall we? :)

0 ( +6 / -6 )

@smith

Yup. Logic and facts always take a back seat when nationalism is driving.

-1 ( +7 / -8 )

CoffeeToday  07:03 am JST

South Korea is complaining about Japanese education when they're indoctrinating their children to hate Japan. There are children in South Korea who drew crayon pictures of Japan being nuked, and a district tried to make it mandatory to put stickers in classrooms that say “This device was made by a war criminal”. Three years ago, people in South Korea were harassing a US official for having a moustache similar to a long dead Japanese general's and trying to break into the Japanese consulate. I experienced this firsthand when I was growing up and my own parents constantly reminded me of what Japan did seventy years.

South Korea doesn't have a right to judge when it's teaching its own kids to hate.

Yes, well the moral of the story for Japanese children is; never invade and subjugate, rape and murder people in another country because it will never be forgotten and your people and nation are unlikely to ever be seen as anything other than war criminals unless you make efforts to apologise sincerely.

-2 ( +12 / -14 )

Usually the winner of conflicts have the right to rewrite the history books…

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

kennyG

The key word is "*mutually**".*

-2 ( +6 / -8 )

kennyGToday  01:57 pm JST

oppressive and cruel annexation including the enslavement, rape and murder of thousands of Koreans.

As opposed to your posting name, you seem posting unrealistic comments

Since peaceful annexation treaty was concluded by both nations, Japan abolished Korean-slave system and treated all equally.

Japan started compulsory education for all who were unable to go to school due to their ex-salve status or poverty. Seoul Univ was the 2nd Imperial university established only after Tokyo Univ.

Life expectancy, population on the peninsula doubled during such short 26 years.

And yet, you and your ilk never face factual records and calling Japanese evil invaders . What is ironical, is the fact many Koreans, despite restrictions to slow down the immigrants, chose to come to such Japan willingly for better lives.

Nobody disputes most of what you point out here, however, just because Korea developed as a result of Japan's forced occupation does not negate the, not few, crimes they committed while there

-3 ( +7 / -10 )

Both sides do air of whitewashing, neither side can point the finger and Japan also doesn’t have the best reputation when it comes to historical events, it also tries to rewrite history in many ways when it comes to its role as an aggressor during WWII. It’s just sickening that these sides can’t come together and for the sake of long term peach just admit to each sides mistakes and Japan owning up to its part in what it has done and atone for its dark past. Wishful thinking, it’ll never happen, but this back and forth constantly, this wanting to save face and uphold pride is just not helping either side.

-4 ( +14 / -18 )

Japan is locked arm and arm with Russia, China, Myanmar and Syria. This consortium led by Japan censors the truth out of school textbooks. If you believe Japan, World War II never happened Thousands of women voluntarily went to Japan to volunteer as sex slaves. Over 100,000 Korean men Went Voluntarilyto Japan to work as slaves in munitions factories and mines during the war. The problem with these old man who lead Japan today is that they cannot face the truth and apologize for past transgressions. Let’s hope the new generation of leaders Will spread Goodwill instead of hiding the truth And censoring school textbooks.

-4 ( +6 / -10 )

Japan doesn’t have the balls to change the history about what they did to Pearl Habor so they are trying to change the history and deny all the inhumane and bad things they did to South Korea! Japan was the aggressor and committed so much war crimes against its neighbors during the war and the entire world knows that ( including many Japanese) but it’s just shameful that a few people including brainless foreigners deny that !

-4 ( +12 / -16 )

kennyG

The text is referring to those 2 islands alone. The Japanese argument about Jukdo makes no sense.

-5 ( +5 / -10 )

KennyG

The Tottori replied:

Takeshima(Ulleungdo) does not belong to Inaba (因幡) or Hōki (伯耆). "No other islands belong to the domain, including Takeshima (Ulleungdo) and Matsushima(Dokdo).[24]"

-5 ( +5 / -10 )

Why bother to apologize over, and over, and over again; when the other side of the mouth undoes it all by issuing forth petulant ukases to book publishers not to deviate from the official IJA as Mother Theresa, Florence Nightingale sweetness and light liberator narrative.

-5 ( +4 / -9 )

to change the wording "forcibly taken" in describing wartime laborers from the Korean Peninsula, in line with the current government stance.

They were just pursuing the glorious economic opportunities of the free market of employment as independent actors by coming to prosperous Japan!

-6 ( +12 / -18 )

> BackpackingNepalToday  06:56 am JST

Here we go again, backlash by none other than South Korea.

Young Korean generation has been always controlled by South Korea Gov. The way they think/speak toward Japan are all based on what they were taught in school, and their patriotic films/books etc. whereas young Japanese don't even care about South Korea as they're more into American/European lifestyle.

Oh right. So nothing to do with the fact Japan caused great suffering to Koreans for 25 years under an oppressive and cruel annexation including the enslavement, rape and murder of thousands of Koreans.

Nothing to do with that, just the Korean government teaching 'hate' to children for no reason at all. Got it.

-6 ( +7 / -13 )

Japan needs to grow up. Korea, too.

-6 ( +4 / -10 )

LovelineToday  11:11 am JST

*I don't know any major country except Japan that whitewashes their history. *Americans might not talk a lot about what we did to the natives 

Ypu do realize that is what whitewashing history is!

letsberealistic almost insulting take on the Native American genocide is a living example of the pot calling the kettle black.

?? LovelineToday, I think there may be some misunderstanding of what I said.

What is it you think I said that is an example of the "pot calling the kettle black"?

-7 ( +3 / -10 )

Harry_Gatto

By the way, the discrimination against Koreans in Japan is so severe that even the US government criticizes Japan for it. See US Department of State Report "Country Reports on Human Rights Practices for 2013".

Notice how they don't say nothing about Japanese discrimination in Korea? That's because Koreans typically don't treat Japanese people badly. Protests occur infrequently (once every few years) and the targets of these protests are typically the Japanese government and/or institutions, never about the Japanese people.

-7 ( +8 / -15 )

Joanne

Some of the most ridiculous Japanese rightwing viewpoints are that America was at fault for Pearl Harbor, because we "forced" Japan's hand by sanctioning their war efforts. Such twisted logic.

I met a Japanese-American person once who claimed that Japan was innocent and America was at fault for everything bad that happened to Japan. I just laughed at his pathetic face.

-7 ( +8 / -15 )

kennyG

There are cases where people quote things out of context, but this is not it. It says right there those 2 islands are not part of Japan.

That said, let's step away from the historical arguments for a second.

Who controls Dokdo right now? Korea. Japan doesn't. Japan can't defend its own territories, and so they will lose them. Might is right.

P.S. Russia will also take Kuril Islands and China/Taiwan will take Senkaku.

-8 ( +4 / -12 )

LovelineToday  10:32 am JST

Yes, well the moral of the story for Japanese children is; never invade and subjugate, rape and murder people in another country because it will never be forgotten and your people and nation are unlikely to ever be seen as anything other than war criminals unless you make efforts to apologise sincerely.

Is this moral applicable to children of all countries? Cuz for the sake of consistency, it seems that there are a lot of countries (including my own), that have done everything you mentioned but have been able (and continue to) successfully whitewash their own cruel history with virtually no repercussion.

Of course. Why would it be any different? I'm not sure what you mean. After Asia, Japan could start teaching children about the terrible treatment inflicted upon native Japanese groups (Ainui and Yukyu)

If any nation is whitewashing its past then they needs to be held to account and history teaching needs to be amended.

Can you say which nation you are referring to? The US does not do enough to teach kids about the attempted genocide of Native Americans. Australia does not do enough to teach about the attempted genocide of Aboriginals. NZ does better than any nation I know at teaching children about what colonists did to the Maori people.

-9 ( +5 / -14 )

What's ironic is Koreans migrated to Japan thousands of years ago .

Cant deny their DNA heritage.

Time to bury the hatchet on that old issue.

-9 ( +1 / -10 )

History is a story and like anything else there's always variations and different viewpoints .

Lost in translation .

If you weren't actually there at the time how would you know the truth.

-9 ( +1 / -10 )

KennyG

The series of treaties that led to the 1910 annexation of Korea was anything but peaceful. In the 1905 treaty:

On 17 November 1905, Ito and Japanese Field Marshal Hasegawa Yoshimichi entered the Jungmyeongjeon Hall, a Russian-designed building that was once part of Deoksu Palace, to persuade Gojong to agree, but he refused. Ito pressured the cabinet with the implied, and later stated, threat of bodily harm, to sign the treaty.[6] According to 한계옥 (Han-Gyeok), Korean prime minister Han Gyu-seoldisagreed, shouting loudly. Ito ordered the guards to lock him in a room and said if he continued screaming, they could kill him.[7] The Korean cabinet signed an agreement that had been prepared by Ito in the Jungmyeongjeon. The Agreement gave Imperial Japan complete responsibility for Korea's foreign affairs,[8] and placed all trade through Korean ports under Imperial Japanese supervision.

Slavery was dying down in Korea. By the end of the 19th century, ~1% of the population were slaves towards late 1800s, and slavery continued even after 1910 through 1930, so Japan gets little, if any, credit here.

Increased life expectancy is not an indication of no oppression. See life expectancy of black Americans even during the early 1900s.

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2021/05/20/over-the-past-century-african-american-life-expectancy-and-education-levels-have-soared

Your entire post is just an appeal to emotion and authority.

-9 ( +4 / -13 )

Harry_Gatto

"isn't uncommon" "A few years back". Kind of defeated your own argument there suggesting something is common then describing something from a few years back.

You want something more recent? How about the arson attack that happened a few months back? Do you ever see something so violent against the Japanese in Korea?

It is rather obvious that the Japanese were neither told nor threatened, they were advised to remain dignified and and not to react if provoked. You just turned it around to suit your own narrative.

Wrong. Anti-Korean sentiment is strong in Japan. The boss probably witnessed many such cases in the past and warned his subordinates to behave.

Where can I read reliable accounts of these incidents?

Do you realize that Japanese right-wingers threatened to bomb CW statues? This is the level of violence and hatred that Japanese people have against Koreans.

-9 ( +7 / -16 )

stormcrowToday  10:25 am JST

When I first came to Japan, this was one of the issues that surprised me which I didn’t know much about. Can you imagine Canada and America angrily criticizing one another’s schoolbooks?

Apples and oranges comparison there. Neither nation subjugated, enslaved, rapped and killed the other as Japan did to Korea.

-10 ( +6 / -16 )

LovelineToday  11:01 am JST

Of course. Why would it be any different? I'm not sure what you mean.

I ask because if I was a Japanese, I couldn’t help but notice the double standard.

Apples and oranges comparison there. Neither nation subjugated, enslaved, rapped and killed the other as Japan did to Korea.

My dude! I hope you are able to recognize the irony here!! You are literally whitewashing history in the very same thread you claim to be condemning the very same. And regarding my other statement, you couldn’t have proved my point any better. I say this as a proud American, you owe it to yourself to do some reading.

I'm a bit confused. What irony are you referring to? Canadians did not subjugate, murder and rape United States and vice versa.

To their own native population, well that's a different story.

-10 ( +3 / -13 )

lol @ the downvote brigade. This is what Japanese education does to your head - just lots of seething instead of reasonable discussion.

Let's start with the Kuril Islands dispute.

Japan signed the San Francisco treaty which relinquished their claim over the Kuril Islands.

In a 2001 book, Seokwoo Lee, a Korean scholar of international law, quotes the October 19, 1951, statement in Japan's Diet by Kumao Nishimura, Director of the Treaties Bureau of the Foreign Ministry of Japan, stating that both Etorofu and Kunashiri are a part of the Kuril Islands and thus covered by Article (2c) of the San Francisco Treaty.[22]

Putin tried to give you the other 2 islands that weren't covered under the SF treaty as a peace offering, but your leaders rejected his offer.

Who is acting unreasonable in this situation? Hint: Not Russia.

-11 ( +10 / -21 )

Sadly for Japan's rightwingers, Japan's wartime history is told to the world from Korea's perspective, not Japan's.

The world learns about the history of Japan from movies like Unbroken(2014, directed by Angelina Jolie) portraying the brutality of Imperial Japan against American POWs, and Pachinko(2022), which is headed for a sweep at Emmy's. The world doesn't buy distorted history from Japan's rightwingers

https://www.goldderby.com/article/2022/pachinko-earns-universal-praise-from-critics-on-the-way-to-the-emmys/

‘Pachinko’ earns universal praise from critics on the way to the Emmys

-11 ( +9 / -20 )

Seems I have no takers.

Ok, let's move on to the Dokdo dispute.

The Sejong-Sillok (세종실록, "Chronicle of King Sejong", 1432) mentions Usando,[15][16] but interpretation of the context is disputed. The text is interpreted as follows: "Usando (우산도 于山島) and Mureungdo (무릉도 武陵島, a former name of Ulleungdo), in the sea due east of Uljin Prefecture, are close enough to each other to be mutually visible in clear weather at the top of the mountain".

This historical passage is earliest record of Dokdo in existence.

The debate then boils down to what each of the names, Uganda and Mureungdo, mean.

The arguments from both sides are as follows:

South Korea insists that this constitutes clear evidence that Usan-do refers to the Liancourt Rocks, the only island that is visible from Ulleungdo only in clear weather.[16] Japan, however, holds that the latter part as "come into view from mainland Korea," believing that it refers instead to Jukdo, located two kilometers east of Ulleungdo.[17]South Korea counters that Jukdo is only 2 kilometers apart from Ulleung-Do and therefore is visible regardless of altitude or weather, as well as that the passage is clearly written in the context of the two islands mutually, rather than in relation to the Korean mainland, as established in "相去不遠," "相" meaning "mutually."

You can see from the Japanese side that their arguments are not based on academic integrity but on bad faith, nationalist misinterpretation of historical texts. There is no way the passages are referring to Jukdo as claims by the Japanese side, as the island of Ulleung-Do is only 2 KM away and is visible regardless of altitude.

-12 ( +6 / -18 )

"The results of such examinations showed Tuesday that publishers were advised to clearly state Takeshima is an "inherent part" of Japanese territory and to change the wording "forcibly taken" in describing wartime laborers from the Korean Peninsula, in line with the current government stance."

This is the kind of thing I was talking about the other day when posters were suggesting, as was the article, that any improvement in relations between the two nations is completely up to the new SK president basically forgetting about the past and agreeing with Japan, and that Japan needed to do nothing. I said it's a two-way street, and Japan doing this kind of thing -- altering history -- is going to do NOTHING towards improving relations. Now, when SK naturally reacts in protest, people are saying it's SK's fault.

As to the issues themselves, there can be absolutely zero debate about forced labor -- companies have even as of a few years ago apologized for forcing POWs and others (including Koreans) to work, and the islands are clearly South Korean and administered and lived on by them.

-12 ( +12 / -24 )

The results of such examinations showed Tuesday that publishers were advised to clearly state Takeshima is an "inherent part" of Japanese territory and to change the wording "forcibly taken" in describing wartime laborers from the Korean Peninsula, in line with the current government stance.

As much censorship oops sorry " government guidance " of the publishers here as the good ole communisf bloc countries.

It is time to move forward . Non-Japanese readers have not read current Japanese books used in school.

...i have seen the history textbooks....couple of pages of WW2 history, mainly about the atomic bombings...half a page on the rest.

-13 ( +12 / -25 )

KennyG

Go for it. I'm all for Japan and Korea knocking each other out. Hope you can take out China as well. A weaker Asia is a good thing for the world.

-13 ( +4 / -17 )

Mark -

Your bias is showing. This is no different from Japan sending their delegates to other nations to try to fill their textbooks with their own twisted view on history.

-14 ( +8 / -22 )

Falco

You apparently have never read coffee's comments.

Japanese attack Koreans in far more violent ways. Some examples include a Japanese right-winger attacking a Korean child by repeatedly kicking him in the stomach. A disgraceful Japanese boxer attacking a Korean female. Japanese nationalists calling for the genocide of Koreans in Korean neighborhoods in Japan.

You see, when Koreans protest Japan, they protest the government or institutions. When Japan protests Korea, it's always racial and violent. One is peaceful; the other isn't.

A survey in South Korea found that almost half of all South Koreans would side with North Korea in a war against Japan, while 40% said "I don't know".

This is assuming that North Korea and Japan are at war. This does not mean that half of Koreans would go to war with Japan right now.

-14 ( +4 / -18 )

@letsberealistic

Its a never ending story of issues that people cant get over.

Japanese refuse to admit their ancestors of Korean and Chinese.

Science told you we all came from Africa even tho the country didn't exist that long ago .

The dinosaur is extinct but the chicken is the decendant.

Science isn't a correct science

-14 ( +0 / -14 )

Japanese do not know about their own history

-16 ( +17 / -33 )

Also, regarding the 1695 Shogunate inquiry about the islands:

The Shogunate inquired:

Since when has Takeshima(Ulleungdo) become a part of either Inaba (因幡) or Hōki (伯耆) Province? Was it before or after the year when your ancestor was given the two provinces (in 1632)? Are there any islands other than Takeshima(Ulleungdo) that are within the jurisdiction of the two provinces?

The Tottori replied:

Takeshima(Ulleungdo) does not belong to Inaba (因幡) or Hōki (伯耆). "No other islands belong to the domain, including Takeshima (Ulleungdo) and Matsushima(Dokdo).[24]"

-16 ( +3 / -19 )

Japanese are specialists in brainwashing. how do you think they create KAMIKAZE

-18 ( +13 / -31 )

Give it a rest, Japan.

Kuril Islands belong to Russia.

Senkaku islands belong to China.

Liancourt Rocks belong to Korea.

Notice the common element in these disputes? Hint: It's not Russia, China and Korea.

-18 ( +12 / -30 )

stormcrow

Japan does that all the time with other countries. It's honestly getting very tiring.

There are many cases of western leaders and academics being visited by Japanese delegates or right-wingers who demand that they retract their paper or change certain things in their textbooks. When western academics and leaders tell Japan to bug off, these Japanese individuals act shamefully and start screaming like a gorilla.

-18 ( +5 / -23 )

Loveline

I don't know any major country except Japan that whitewashes their history. Americans might not talk a lot about what we did to the natives, but we don't deny or glorify what we did.

Japan's situation is different in that they genuinely believe they were in the right and deny anything bad that they did. It's not uncommon to see Japanese right wingers claim how the US "forced" Japan into a war and so the war was entirely America's fault. It's just nationalist delusion.

-18 ( +5 / -23 )

Loveline

See my posts above regarding the Kuril Island and Dokdo dispute.

Japan's arguments are extremely weak.

-19 ( +3 / -22 )

smithinjapan

This is why I advocate for a weaker Japan. They've become too arrogant and think their size protects them from criticisms.

-19 ( +6 / -25 )

Loveline

Japan's arguments are almost entirely historical.

"[T]he Japanese knew the existence of the Liancourt Rocks from the ancient times."

"The earliest documentary evidence is Inshu Shicho Goki" of 1667.

"While there is a Korean name for Dagelet, none exists for the Liancourt Rocks."

"They are not shown in the maps made in Korea."

Koreans on Ulleungdo could not see the Liancourt Rocks, due to the heavy forestation on Ulleungdo

Koreans were not aware of the Liancourt Rocks before the 20th century, as seen in the lack of documents pertaining to the Liancourt Rocks

Koreans did not have adequate naval navigation to reach the Liancourt Rocks.

These arguments were made by delusional Japanese right-winger Kenzo Kawakami.

Most of these statements can not be verified, and the others were disproven:

Recent studies by numerous Korean and Japanese scholars such as Baek In-ki (백인기), Shim Mun-bo (심문보), Yu Mirim (유미림), Lee Han-key (이한기), Wada Haruki 和田春樹, and Jeong Taeman (정태만) have disproved many of the claims.

Visibility of Liancourt Rocks from Ulleungdo is attested in history, [124][125][126][127] in theory[128][129][130][131][132] and from observation[133]

Koreans already possessed the skills to reach Ulleung-do from mainland Korea since not later than the 6th century.[134]

Koreans transmitted advanced shipbuilding/navigational technology to the Japanese from early historical times.[135][136][137]

-19 ( +3 / -22 )

obladi

Why not just say that the islands are disputed, and give a short synopsis of the two arguments?

Because they're trying to indoctrinate, not educate. Don't get me wrong, I think Korea, China and Russia also do the same things with their own disputed territories, but I'm more inclined to side with these 3 over Japan, as Japan's arguments are rather weak.

-26 ( +16 / -42 )

takabin3650

When we went to Cheju Island to celebrate our division achieving a significant goal, our business director stressed the importance of behaving in a dignified manner. Quite frankly, it is getting old to get complaints from Korea.

Don't you think it's telling and shameful that the Japanese need to be told to behave in a dignified manner? You need to be threatened to behave well while Koreans need no such warning.

-28 ( +10 / -38 )

takabin3650

Also, Koreans don't have a problem with individual Japanese people (Except your leaders). On the other hand, Japanese people assaulting Koreans isn't an uncommon occurrence. A few years back, some right-winger assaulted an underaged Korean kid.

-29 ( +7 / -36 )

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