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47 anaphylaxis cases reported in Japan after 580,000 Pfizer vaccine shots

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"Due to various differences such as inoculation targets, it cannot be simply compared with the frequency overseas," a ministry official said Friday.

I imagine some will try though.

I always find reading the article helps to understand the context of the headline.

5 ( +10 / -5 )

This will make it easier for the Japanese authorities to continue to delay the rollout of the less than perfect foreign vaccine while Japanese companies play catch up and introduce their “much safer” product in another year or so. By which time we will all have gone stir crazy.

13 ( +22 / -9 )

Would you say that the chances of getting anaphylaxis is 47 out of 58,0000 cases (0.008103%) so the vaccination is reasonably safe? Statistically, yes. But you wouldn’t want to be one of the 47, would you?

-21 ( +8 / -29 )

These are almost certainly caused by a substance called polyethylene glycol in the vaccines.

It's a byproduct of the production of gasoline provided by Big Oil to Big Pharma who then inject it into you claiming it's "healthy and safe"

If you drink a product containing polyethylene glycol by accident you must seek medical attention immediately, yet apparently it's perfectly safe to inject directly into your bloodstream.

-23 ( +11 / -34 )

The more concerning news is that it took over a month to do 580,000 vaccinations.

38 ( +43 / -5 )

@thelonius

+1

7 ( +11 / -4 )

a severe and potentially fatal allergic reaction BS. 580,000 is pathetic and no doubt deliberate from J gov

8 ( +14 / -6 )

 Statistically, yes. But you wouldn’t want to be one of the 47, would you?

Not a very wise statement considering statistically you are way more likely to get a severe form of the disease, to die from it, or long term side effects of the virus...

Its all about risk management, which the name of the concept itself is very clear: there is always risk, you just manage it the smartest way possible.

Considering the official research data/studies available, being vaccinated is by far the least risky move available at the moment, as is as risky as most vaccines we always took.

8 ( +15 / -7 )

That’s rather more than observed in other countries, and btw. already high numbers with Pfizer’s not AstraZeneca’s.

6 ( +9 / -3 )

Have you been given jabs here in Japan? The last time I had a needle sticking in my arm, the nurse slammed it around like a Kempston joystick. I am not at all surprised there have been problems.

-9 ( +3 / -12 )

But you wouldn’t want to be one of the 47, would you?

You would not want to be any of the hospitalized or death people because of the infection, having a 0.008% chances of a treatable complication is much better than the chances from COVID-19. Specially in Japan where reporting of side effects are not precisely exact, the last time 37 cases were reported, then corrected to 17 and a week later further corrected to only 7, it would not be strange that the same thing happens now.

It's a byproduct of the production of gasoline provided by Big Oil to Big Pharma who then inject it into you claiming it's "healthy and safe"

It is also a compound specifically manufactured for their properties and included in dozens and dozens of products, many of which are not pharmacological. Where do you think people get sensitized? Allergic reactions do not happen the first time you get exposed to something. In comparison with the constant exposure people get every day, the vaccine is a drop in the ocean.

If you drink a product containing polyethylene glycol by accident you must seek medical attention immediately,

No, if you drink a product containing mainly polyethylene glycol you have to seek medical attention but that is because the dose makes the poison. In the same way that if you drink Cyanide you are going to die, many times even with medical attention, but if you eat a few apple seeds you will still be perfectly fine.

10 ( +20 / -10 )

The number of deaths after vaccination is alarming. That is, both doses have been administered and 2 weeks have passed- is now 500 times the rate of the flu vaccine.

-20 ( +7 / -27 )

A month ago, people here were arguing Japan is too slow to handle the vaccine for its citizens. Now same people saying that it's better to delay the rollout and wait for better vaccine.

Yeah just think about it. Maybe you have strong immune system to fight the vaccine but think about your family and relatives too. Don't be selfish.

-9 ( +3 / -12 )

per VAERS reports per fully vaccinated person.

-11 ( +6 / -17 )

@burningbush

If you drink a product containing polyethylene glycol by accident you must seek medical attention immediately, yet apparently it's perfectly safe to inject directly into your bloodstream.

Out of interest, why do antivaxers believe that vaccines are injected directly into the bloodstream?

Watch a video, learn a fact.

11 ( +18 / -7 )

Looks like one of those stories that starts a fire in a pet shop.

The hysterics will continue long into the night.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

The number of deaths after vaccination is alarming. That is, both doses have been administered and 2 weeks have passed- is now 500 times the rate of the flu vaccine.

Wow, almost the same as everything is else that is importantly directed towards a population of elevated age when compared with something that is directed importantly towards children. Are you going to be surprised also that diapers for adults have a much higher death rate than diapers for infants?

per VAERS reports per fully vaccinated person.

You mean the VAERS that has found no elevation of any kind of risk when compared with the unvaccinated population of the same demographics? that is very good argument for the safety of the vaccines.

A month ago, people here were arguing Japan is too slow to handle the vaccine for its citizens. Now same people saying that it's better to delay the rollout and wait for better vaccine.

Not the same people at all, rational people understand the value of vaccines, unrational people are always against any and all vaccines without ever recognizing their very important value.

10 ( +20 / -10 )

Yet another reason not to take that rushed thing.

The more concerning news is that it took over a month to do 580,000 vaccinations.

Even if the vaccines were available to all, Japanese people aren't dumb, I doubt most would take it. Apart from 1 person, all the Japanese people I know are skeptical of the jab and would not take it immediately. Including people in the medical community. Good for them.

-13 ( +7 / -20 )

Considering the death rate is extremely low for people with no comorbilities and under the age of 70, if you fall into that category there is no point in getting that shot taking into the fact this is an experimental drug that has not been approved by the FDA and we still don't know it's long term effects.

But it's up to you. I won't be taking that garbage.

-6 ( +11 / -17 )

Out of interest, why do antivaxers believe that vaccines are injected directly into the bloodstream?

The vaccine is injected into the muscle fibers so it can enter the bloodstream and interact with the human immune system.

-7 ( +5 / -12 )

The reason the cases are higher in japan than America is because Japan has much better record centralized systems than in the US.

Im sure the number is much higher in the USA as well.

-9 ( +6 / -15 )

The Pfizer vaccine is NOT FDA approved.

It's only allowed to be marketed because it was granted Emergency Use Authorization by President Donald J. Trump.

The vaccines are not FDA approved, they are Trump approved.

-9 ( +8 / -17 )

Even if the vaccines were available to all, Japanese people aren't dumb, I doubt most would take it.

Both things are unrelated, the smartest people around the world that deal with vaccines and infectious diseases vouch for the safety and efficacy of the approved vaccines. That is a much stronger argument.

if you fall into that category there is no point in getting that shot taking into the fact this is an experimental drug that has not been approved by the FDA and we still don't know it's long term effects.

Err, the news and page is about Japan, the vaccine is PMDA approved, and we know enough already to understand there is no realistic possibility it will have long term effects even on the same league than the natural infection, that has already demonstrated long term and even permanent effects on the health of people, sometimes even asymptomatic patients.

The reason the cases are higher in japan than America is because Japan has much better record centralized systems than in the US.

The same system where first reported 37 anaphylaxis cases, a few days later corrected it to 17 and a week later re-corrected it to 7? that is very difficult to believe. At least in the US they are much less dependent on Faxes to report things.

The vaccines are not FDA approved, they are Trump approved.

In Japan both things are irrelevant, the vaccine in the article is PMDA approved, with extra requisites for approval compared with the FDA.

3 ( +13 / -10 )

According to the official government vaccination tracker, they're not even vaccinating people on Saturdays and Sundays and they're vaccinating an average of 30,000 people a day.

At this rate it'll take 224 days to vaccinate 4.8 million health care workers, so mid-April is out of the question, December maybe.

Good luck getting vaccinated in Japan.

https://www.mhlw.go.jp/stf/seisakunitsuite/bunya/vaccine_sesshujisseki.html

7 ( +8 / -1 )

Even if the vaccines were available to all, Japanese people aren't dumb, I doubt most would take it.

Not sure you are making the point you wanted to here.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

Fda approval is relevant to me. It's a much higher standard than pmda.

-7 ( +5 / -12 )

And you can't say we know now that it has no long term effects. Animal trials were skipped and it hasn't been studied long enough.

-7 ( +6 / -13 )

Fda approval is relevant to me. It's a much higher standard than pmda.

The opposite, the PMDA requires everything the FDA requires and some extra meaningless studies. Your personal preferences are not relevant to why vaccines are approved for use in Japan

And you can't say we know now that it has no long term effects. Animal trials were skipped and it hasn't been studied long enough.

Read again, what we know for sure is that the vaccine has a much lower risk of producing long term effects than being exposed to the natural COVID-19 infection, this is already know because we already have examples of permanent effects from the infection, while this has not been found in vaccinated people.

Understandable, the infection exposes the body to a million times more viral proteins including 2 dozen extra ones and a few ones that the virus produce precisely to mess with the immune response, it is obvious it will have more deleterious effects in the health in the future.

Or what? do you think you can "know" we will not find any (other) long term effects from COVID-19?

Also, animal experiments were finished a long time before the phase III trials were even beginning, that is why they are called "pre" clinical. And none of the trials (in animals nor in humans) had any trouble.

5 ( +12 / -7 )

So in the one month since they started vaccinations, over 1,500 people have died from Covid, but 47 (or probably less) people have had a rash or a fever from the Vaccine? Ooooh! the vaccine must be more risky!

???

Also, I don't think I've read any news stories about doctors or health workers in Japan dying from Covid. Yet over 65s make up almost 90% of the deaths... but it'll be at least another month before they even start vaccinating over 65s?

And in one month they've managed less vaccinations than a single day in the UK?

Even if the vaccines were available to all, Japanese people aren't dumb, I doubt most would take it. Apart from 1 person, all the Japanese people I know are skeptical of the jab and would not take it immediately. Including people in the medical community. Good for them.

You make two statements that seem to be directly contradictory.

7 ( +9 / -2 )

"Due to various differences such as inoculation targets, it cannot be simply compared with the frequency overseas," a ministry official said Friday.""

SO WHY REPORT IT???

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

In the US, most vaccine sites monitor people for 15-30 minutes after injection, and have everything they need to treat an anaphylaxis. The problem rarely happens, and it can be dealt with if it does.

4 ( +8 / -4 )

In the US, most vaccine sites monitor people for 15-30 minutes after injection, and have everything they need to treat an anaphylaxis. The problem rarely happens, and it can be dealt with if it does.

Perhaps, but it is not a good sign when your body reacts this way. Many have already died from vaccines, but even if you survive, who knows what else they are doing to your body (autoimmune disease, allergies, autism...).

-9 ( +4 / -13 )

Perhaps, but it is not a good sign when your body reacts this way. Many have already died from vaccines, but even if you survive, who knows what else they are doing to your body (autoimmune disease, allergies, autism...).

The main point is that this reaction is much less important (and frequent) than what is observed from the natural infection, so the only rational option according to the scientific evidence is to vaccinate.

There is no evidence of any of your imaginary problems for any of the COVID-19 vaccines, (and for autism the evidence is that no vaccine in use for humans has anything to do with it).

On the other hand COVID-19 has already been correlated with immune and autoimmune problems, it is not unjustified to think more can be discovered in the future, the contrary to the vaccines.

5 ( +10 / -5 )

Many Japanese think we had better wait vaccination because its side effects are not clear, I guess. We don't know what will happen one year after vaccination. However, it is obvious the countries whose death tolls are high should be vaccinated.

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

We don't know what will happen one year after vaccination.

But we already know the possibility of something bad happening in the future because of the vaccines is much lower than with the infection. Mostly because we already have seen bad things happening for COVID-19 and it is very likely we will find more in the future, It would not be the first viral infection that is related to cancer, autoimmunity, etc.

However, it is obvious the countries whose death tolls are high should be vaccinated.

That of course ignores everything else the country is doing to prevent the high amounts of deaths, and the very real possibility this situation can get out of control very quickly.

People recovering more of their normal lives once immunity is common is a reason enough to accelerate vaccination, specially for the negligible risk this brings. And new variants making control more and more difficult is also a perfectly fine justification.

5 ( +9 / -4 )

I have really strong doubts about the vaccine. I mean, 5G is the new standard right now, but if they change to a more modern network in the future, will I have to get vaccinated again to keep my wireless coverage?

Seriously, though, every rational argument against the vaccine has been already made by the manufacturers and studies themselves: Don't get it if you have severe allergies, don't get it if you already have respiratory problems, don't get it if you're pregnant. And if you belong to one of these groups ... don't get vaccinated. It's fine, vaccinating the rest of the population will keep you safe.

For crying out loud, even if you're one of those people that will not get vaccinated because you fear that in ten year's time it will give you two different shoe sizes ... it's also fine. The rest of the vaccinated population will keep you safe too (and, bonus, you can still feel validated in your misguided opinion that the vaccine was not even necessary because for you it wasn't.) The task is keeping that group of people from getting too large. 10 or so percent will be fine.

The problem is the sheer volume and variety of FUD. There is a metric dungton of irrational arguments, and from my experience Japanese are especially susceptible to irrational arguments. Not stupid, not ignorant, mind. Just very susceptible.

6 ( +9 / -3 )

This whole vaccination thing is a horrible train wreck. The Japanese government needs to stop it before they make everyone sick like what happened to the Americans.

-7 ( +5 / -12 )

before they make everyone sick like what happened to the Americans

True, the hundred million sick Americans are all over the news. Well, your news.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Many have already died from vaccines,

As per the CDC and FDA, exactly noone died from vaccines.

but even if you survive, who knows what else they are doing to your body (autoimmune disease, allergies, autism...).

By the same logic you should reject seatbelts because, even if you survive fastening it, who knows what it is doing to your body (nylon allergies! autism! truck nuts!)

6 ( +8 / -2 )

In Florida now, and from next week all residents can get the vaccine free. Infection rates are plummeting. I leave soon but wish I could get it. My mother got the Pfizer one with no reaction, but I have heard of others have a few bad days. Japan better get rolling. It is common sense.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

Will be great when China delivers to Japan.

-10 ( +0 / -10 )

0.008103% I'll take those odds, anytime.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Quick suggestion: Go To Vaccine

Everyone who gets vaccinated gets 10,000 yen in Go To Eat coupons and a 50% off Go To Travel coupon, stamped with the date of their vaccination and valid for use from 10 days after that date.

Watch the fear and skepticism evaporate as people and tv shows scramble all over themselves to get coupons, I mean vaccinated.

Boost the economy, but without as much risk of spreading disease, reward those who are considerate of others rather than rewarding the selfish, boost vaccination rates. Plus the government might develop more of a sense of urgency if it was about giving money to their pet industries.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Safe. I’ll take it now if I was offered. 15 minute waiting period after the Pfizer Jab to observe any reaction. Anti Vaxxers take a hike and let the rest of us get on with a normal life. Plenty of loony websites for to concoct more conspiracy theories.

VAERS? Bunch of Wackos.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

As per the CDC and FDA, exactly noone died from vaccines.

not quite.

Here are the facts.

Less than 20 reported deaths post flu shots last 2 years, 180-190 million Americans vaccinated.

2200 deaths post Covid vaccine with less than 40 million Americans having received their 2 doses.

(and no one has a space)

Those are the facts. Get the vaccine if u are young and healthy if u wish. But know the facts.

-10 ( +4 / -14 )

VAERS? Bunch of Wackos.

Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) is a government website.

-5 ( +6 / -11 )

Make the vaccine in Japan. Please guarantee safety. We do not need any more new problems.

-8 ( +2 / -10 )

Animal trials were skipped and it hasn't been studied long enough.

You’ve been misinformed. Please don’t further spread such misinformation. Animal trials were not skipped.

4 ( +8 / -4 )

Perhaps, but it is not a good sign when your body reacts this way. Many have already died from vaccines, but even if you survive, who knows what else they are doing to your body (autoimmune disease, allergies, autism...).

Peanuts also do this.

“Many have already died from vaccines” yes in the past, but as far as we know now not this one. There is no credible evidence that this vaccine is causing deaths. None. None at all. None.

If you have any evidence please do share it.

4 ( +8 / -4 )

Those are the facts.

You people claim "facts" a lot, then say a bunch of stuff that you made up, or repeat a bunch of stuff someone else made up. It's pretty clear your team aren't clear on what facts are.

So I'm extremely skeptical that the "facts" you claim are facts, actually are fact.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

"But you wouldn’t want to be one of the 47, would you?"

None of them died. However, you really wouldn't want to be part of the 9000+ people in Japan who have died of this coronavirus.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

Here are the facts. (...)

2200 deaths post Covid vaccine

Correct. 2216 as of March 22, to be precise.

And since you are demonstrably good with numbers, here's another number:

Two

as in: Two sentences later the CDC/FDA report says: "A review of available clinical information including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records revealed no evidence that vaccination contributed to patient deaths."

know the facts.

Like a lot of things in life, it's not the size of the fact that matters, it's knowing how to use it.

11 ( +13 / -2 )

...580,000 shots of Pfizer Inc's COVID-19 vaccine were administered to health workers

When placed in context with the total number of folks who are fully vaccinated (i.e. had two shots of either the Moderna or Pfizer vaccines), it's even more inadequate to reach some level of herd immunity - a quick Google search found that as of 03/25/21 there were 823K doses given, with a little over 41K fully vaccinated - meaning only 0.03% of the population is fully vaccinated.

Whenever the bureaucrats get exposed for bungling-up stuff, their defense mechanism is to toss what I call a "factual smoke bomb" to obscure either their incompetence and/or deception (in this case the 47 folks who had adverse reactions to the vaccine out of 580000 shot, so about 0.008% of the population was impacted).

I and my wife already got our vaccines. She got both the Moderna (1st shot was a sore arm, 2nd was a mild flu-like symptom for the afternoon), and I got the first shot of the Pfizer (I didn't notice any side effects). Still it's now a little easier to get the vaccine, but it's not a cake-walk either (took about 30 minutes in a make shift drive-through at a sport stadium parking lot).

3 ( +6 / -3 )

In medical terms, the anaphylaxis risk is fine. All medical interventions balance benefit against risk.

Do you worry about the risk when your step outside your front door in a morning? Do you avoid crossing roads? Do you trust food others have prepared? We balance risk against benefit every moment of our lives.

This is why you wait in a medical facility for 10-15 mins after getting the Pfizer, surrounded by medical staff.

The Astra Zeneca appears to have a much lower anaphylaxis risk, so administering it will be faster.

Globally, all roll-outs start slowly and then speed up, as more vaccine sites are deployed.

The speed will depend on the existing medical data and staff infrastructures and the preparation. Japan has good urban transport links in the cities, which will help get people to vacc sites.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

Does this highlight a difference in diagnosing/treating issues with allergies in Japan, or the Gaman attitues which exist in Japanese society . . . rather than an issue with the vaccine itself.

If someone has brushed off getting a diagnosis for their allergies for years, answers "No" to the all important question of whether they have any pre-existing medial conditions, then has a reaction. Is that the fault of the vaccine?

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Peanuts also do this.

Did you ever wonder why there are so many allergies these days?

, (and for autism the evidence is that no vaccine in use for humans has anything to do with it)

I often read that the vaccine-autism link has been debunked, but that "debunking" evidence is very weak, actually none existent.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

Did you ever wonder why there are so many allergies these days?

It is a natural thing, previously people with allergies died from having them, now it has become a problem easily treated for which death is a rare outcome.

I often read that the vaccine-autism link has been debunked, but that "debunking" evidence is very weak, actually none existent.

That is false, people with hidden interest proposed the relationship, but never showed valid proof (as in non-manipulated data) to prove it. Large reviews proved there is no relationship between autism and vaccines, of any type. When your argument is trying very hard to see the evidence that only proves you don't want to see it, not that the evidence is not there.

https://www.jpeds.com/article/S0022-3476(13)00144-3/pdf?ext=.pdf

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/pdf/cdcstudiesonvaccinesandautism.pdf

Less than 20 reported deaths post flu shots last 2 years, 180-190 million Americans vaccinated.

How about a link for that? I just searched and found 20 deaths for one single variety of flu shot (fluzone) that is used in way less than 180 million people.

But more importantly, why insist on comparing something used very importantly on patients of advanced age and something used very importantly on children? what do you think that means?

The real comparison is between people vaccinated and not vaccinated of the same demographics, but since that would prove there is no elevation of risk probably you will not make it, it would prove your point false.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Did you ever wonder why there are so many allergies these days?

No, but I’m sure you have time on your hands to tell me. It sounds fascinating.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

@bob: Fact Check. Whoever/Whatever they are - THEY do not themselves attribute any deaths directly to the Vaccine. Sorry, its sad when anybody dies, but the law of averages ESPECIALLY with the age groups that are being vaccinated - but these people would have died anyway. The benefits of this Vaccines FAR outweigh the tiny risks.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

All recovered after receiving treatment, according to the ministry, with its panel of experts concluding that there are no serious concerns about the safety of the vaccine at this time.

so 47 out of 580000 shots and nobody died, statistically insignificant. getting the vaccine give you over 90% immunity compared to a 2~3% mortality rate if you catch covid not vaccinated. simple math tells you that being vaccinated gives you much higher chance survival and not developing into serious issues, compared to being not vaccinated, thats the science backed with real facts. those that still want to take their chances not vaccinated, great stand aside one less person in line waiting

4 ( +6 / -2 )

2200 deaths post Covid vaccine with less than 40 million Americans having received their 2 doses.

and theres no scientific evidence that those deaths are related to the vaccine,

let say for arguments sake that everybody of those 2200 died from the vaccine, if you vaccinated 70% of US population, herd immunity, then about 14000 will die from the vaccine. now lets say nobody got the vaccine and the US population got herd immunity by having 70% of the US population infected, currently about 1.8% of infected in the US die, so herd immunity will mean around 4.1million Americans will die.

yep being vaccinated still gives you a far higher chance of survival and not developing serious problems compared to not being vaccinated

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Well said wrfjapan.

I'm pro Vax, pro sensible social distancing, pro closing borders. Anti lockdown. I'm also anti the idea of Vaccine passports in the coming months / years ahead.

Its fine for those who don't wish to have the vaccine, that's their right. But the way the way the more wacky anti vaxxers try to justify their views on this website does make me wish a little that if they DON'T have the vaccine that they are confined to their workplace and home indefinitely. No travel, No Restaurants etc. Let's see how they'd like it 2 years from now. People like @burning bush really are living in some alternate Universe!

The Pfizer vaccine was for example approved in the UK sometime before the US. I don't think that Trump had much control over that. Nuts.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

Wtf Japan , you are using faulty statistics to prove your point.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

compared to a 2~3% mortality rate if you catch covid not vaccinated.

It's around 2% for Japan, but that is if you only consider the confirmed infections. Considering the low testing numbers that many here have been complaining about, there is no way the confirmed infection number is anywhere near the actual infection number.

Based on the work of Prof. Didier Raoult, the fatality rate is around 0.07% when people are treated immediately.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

It's around 2% for Japan, but that is if you only consider the confirmed infections. Considering the low testing numbers that many here have been complaining about, there is no way the confirmed infection number is anywhere near the actual infection number.

That also works again the lethality rate, if people are assume to die from different causes and not tested for COVID then there is no way to know the actual number of deaths attributable to COVID-19.

Based on the work of Prof. Didier Raoult, the fatality rate is around 0.07% when people are treated immediately.

You like to pull these fictitious numbers out of thin air, but when asked to support them with evidence you never do, would it be that they are completely false?

I mean, coming from a disgraced scientist known to manipulate and fake out numbers to suppor unethical research that is not completely unexpected. Or he could be doing again "screening" of patients, anybody can have terribly low (but false) fatality rates if you make it so anybody with signs of complication are automatically eliminated from the patients.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Many have already died from vaccines, but even if you survive, who knows what else they are doing to your body (autoimmune disease, allergies, autism...).

Autism is neural condition created during prenatal development. You're either born with it, or not autistic. No one can get autism from a vaccine. If you believed you could, maybe you should start questioning all of your beliefs.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Based on the work of Prof. Didier Raoult, the fatality rate is around 0.07% when people are treated immediately.

You like to pull these fictitious numbers out of thin air, but when asked to support them with evidence you never do, would it be that they are completely false?

I already explained to you that this data has been provided directly from him and other staff members of his institute. They don't just make stuff up, all their data is open to all to see.

I mean, coming from a disgraced scientist ...

Yeah people linked to big pharma attack him.

...known to manipulate and fake out numbers...

he took a few people out of his initial study because the treatment had to be modified. He was very open about it, this information was included in his publication. I already explained to you that his first goal is to treat his patients, rather than letting them die just to complete his study.

... to suppor unethical research...

unethical only because the government had wrongly forbidden the use of hydroxychloroquine (that has since been reversed).

Prof. Didier Raoult remains a very highly respected expert of infectious diseases, but he is attacked by people linked to big pharma, so I realize that you will continue to copy-paste these baseless accusations.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

I already explained to you that this data has been provided directly from him and other staff members of his institute. They don't just make stuff up, all their data is open to all to see.

No, that is false, you don't understand what it means for something to be open, something open can be easily accessed by anybody, if you yourself are unable to provide that data it means it does not exist. It is imaginary and you have never been able to prove the contrary.

Yeah people linked to big pharma attack him.

No, people with ethics and standards do, and they provided in detail all the ethical, methodological and medical problems that made his failed studies a textbook example of scientific malpractice, you have never refuted even one of these reasons when linked to them (you know, since they are actually open for anybody to see). "pharma linked" is just an excuse without value.

he took a few people out of his initial study because the treatment had to be modified. He was very open about it, this information was included in his publication.

No, he was not, he tried to hide patients that were treated and then "disappeared" from the results without any explanation, but counted them as cured without justification, that is the opposite of being open and no explanation was done on his publication for them.

unethical only because the government had wrongly forbidden the use of hydroxychloroquine (that has since been reversed).

No, unethical because he falsified the absolutely necessary ethical permission to run his trial, modified it on the run (explicitly forbidden by ethical rules) and fabricated results, making the informed consent invalid. That is why he was forced to face an official enquiry by his peers for unethical research, everything is completely independent of what treatment he was trying to force.

Prof. Didier Raoult remains a very highly respected expert of infectious diseases, but he is attacked by people linked to big pharma, so I realize that you will continue to copy-paste these baseless accusations.

Not at all, I already provided you with proof of how he is considered an scandal in France, and that many of his peers heavily criticize him validly for many professional faults, he is now trying to limit the damage even recognizing that HCQ has no effect in preventing death or ICU visits of patients, but since this topic is only one of the many that have been found deficient in his research his future is not bright, he became an example of how bad science is discarded eventually.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

Based on the work of Prof. Didier Raoult, the fatality rate is around 0.07% when people are treated immediately.

No rational person is going to use the long-discredited findings of a bonkers French doctor to extrapolate COVID survivability rates to the global population.

Raoult is a bust. His only function is as a clownish cult leader for people who find science tiresome and inconvenient. HCQ is done with. It was done with more than six months ago. It ain't coming back.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Wtf Japan , you are using faulty statistics to prove your point.

well the 2200 deaths was from another member not my stat, and yes comparing statistics from dozens of différent countries, the fatality rate. number of deaths divided by number of infected is around 1.8~3%

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/?utm_campaign=homeAdvegas1?#countries

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Based on the work of Prof. Didier Raoult, the fatality rate is around 0.07% when people are treated immediately.

but the real world stats show its far higher, whats easier pulling millions in intensive care or getting millions vaccinated

2 ( +3 / -1 )

wtfjapan

so 47 out of 580000 shots and nobody died, statistically insignificant

....but the Corona infection fatality rate, which is about the same as this ratio for those under 50, is statistically significant? Pls explain.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

To anybody claiming that VAERS/CDC has reported any deaths ACTUALLY caused because of the vaccine then what part of the following are you misreading? :

126 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through March 22, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 2,216 reports of death (0.0018%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. CDC and FDA physicians review each case report of death as soon as notified and CDC requests medical records to further assess reports. A review of available clinical information including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records revealed no evidence that vaccination contributed to patient deaths. CDC and FDA will continue to investigate reports of adverse events, including deaths, reported to VAERS.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

number of deaths divided by number of infected is around 1.8~3%

Most people who are infected are never tested and do not show up in the stats.

The confirmed cases are a fraction of actual infections.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

....but the Corona infection fatality rate, which is about the same as this ratio for those under 50, is statistically significant

That is not true, people with coronavirus infection have an excess of risk compared with non-infected people, even under 50, vaccinated people have zero extra risk.

Most people who are infected are never tested and do not show up in the stats.

"Most"? that require evidence, else you are pulling this out of thin air. The only thing we know is that "some" people that are infected are not being tested, but not how many, so nobody can say they are "most" of the cases. This also applies to deaths, some people that die from COVID are not tested and assumed to die from other causes. So the only number you can calculate is the number of confirmed deaths divided by number of confirmed infections.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Most people who are infected are never tested and do not show up in the stats.

"Most"? that require evidence, else you are pulling this out of thin air.

It's no secret that a high proportion of infected people are asymptomatic. And especially in Japan where many have complained about the difficulty in getting tested, it's clear that even many people with some symptoms do not get tested. There were also early serological studies that showed that the infection numbers were much higher than what had been expected based on PCR results.

This also applies to deaths, some people that die from COVID are not tested and assumed to die from other causes.

That might possibly be true if someone shows up dead at the hospital.

But anyone hospitalized with Covid symptoms will be tested to better determine how to treat them. Especially, in the US, where hospitals have large financial incentives to have Covid patients.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

So my Family gets 40 Million if I die.... or will the Government simply wriggle its way out of this and say it must have been due to pre-existing conditions or simply another natural death ?

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

It's no secret that a high proportion of infected people are asymptomatic. And

How high? 2, 5, 99% this is not evidence of a majority being undetected. This is only your unqualified guess, unless you know around how much they are you cannot say they are "most"

That might possibly be true if someone shows up dead at the hospital.

Or if it dies in the hospital, or in his house, it is possible in any of the usual ways someone can die. It is entirely possible a death accelerated by COVID goes undetected if the patient is not tested. In the same way that you cannot simply assume a random number of non-detected asymptomatic cases you cannot dismiss this occurrence without evidence indicating it does not happen.

Incentives to have COVID patients are not the same as having COVID deaths, COI work both ways.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

The confirmed cases are a fraction of actual infections.

and yet even countries like Australia NZ which have had very few infections and deaths, and have a far better time keeping track of statistics due to their smaller populations. fatality rates are 1~3%, far higher than the flu and far far lower than any risks from vaccinations, facts dont care about peoples feelings,

FACT remains your far more likely to develop serious symptoms and death by not being vaccinated compared to vaccinated, what you do with those facts is totally your decision. dont want the vaccine, great on less person in line waiting. might have a hard time traveling overseas once the vaccine passports become compulsory

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/?utm_campaign=homeAdvegas1?#countries

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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