Japan says Russian military conducting drills near its airspace

"Japan says Russian military conducting drills near its airspace"

Russia IS close to Japan's airspace... It is sad that Japan and Russia are playing enemies. Could be very powerful allies, self-contained, energy, tech and development-wise... A little bit more brains, political will and independence.

smithinjapan,

So what about the peace treaty that Japan had with Russia ? Russia broke the agreement thanks to the efforts of Churchill, Roosevelt and Stalin with an under table deal at the Yalta conference 1945 Dec. to let Russia take the islands if Russia joined them near the end of the war. And, why did Putin apologise to Japan over this matter ?

@jasperandySep. 10, 2011 - 09:09AM JST

Not true, Rostov on the black sea has ice free access to the med and to the Atlantic.

Gateway from Black sea controlled and limited by Turkey. Also That communication can't help for economic and strategic security for east area of Russia.

@smithinjapan Don't straw man me like that. I said nothing of Japan in WW2 or of any disputed islands. I was pointing out a virtue that is morally correct.

!! Bad BessonovYanSep. 10, 2011 - 05:47AM JST

!! Because for Russia Kuril islands is non-freezable gateway to Pacific Ocean. We have only two non- !! freezable sea ports to oceans: Murmansk and Vladivostok.

Not true, Rostov on the black sea has ice free access to the med and to the Atlantic.

Japan history pre 1945 was shocking, however the same ultranationist / facist attitude has been taken up by both China and Russia since then.

Both at present form a loose but increasingly agressive alliance.

Sure the American wont do the same...they push others to do such thing, remember the Korean ailine 007? By the way, why no US military aircrafts responding to defend Japan's security? Or they are doing the same over mount Fuji?

YuriOtani

Once again the Soviets/Russians are beating their war drum. Flying bombers off of our coast is not defensive but a threat.

One question, did these aircraft at any time enter Japanese airspace? Well according to both the Russian and Japanese government they didnt, they stayed in international airspace so what are you bunch of whining closet nationalists complaining about. Oh no a military aircraft flew around our island WOW.

Time for the Americans to do the same. Then again the Russians can not spot their bombers.

Would these be the same Americans you constantly attack accusing of killing hundreds of thousands of your country men and women and raping and committing numerous crimes, the same ones you want out and have vocally said on numerous occasions. But now you want their help, how two faced you hate them until you need them. Reap what you sow Yuri.

@societymikeSep. 09, 2011 - 09:33AM JST

Your ideas is mad. Russia never lose strategic object - Kuril islands. But if Russia lose it then Japan and Asian countries must forget about peace in Asian region. Because nobody make some prognoses of military reaction of USA and China. Your idea can get WW3 with many a-bomb is full guaranty.

@FarmboySep. 09, 2011 - 09:10AM JST

There is a risk of serious conflict

Some risk is impossible. Real problem - Japan not want make business on Kuril islands and legal go fishing on Okhotsk sea.

May I remind you that you lost a war that you started and now you have to pay - quit your bellyaching.

@toguroSep. 09, 2011 - 08:39AM JST @JapanGalSep. 09, 2011 - 08:46AM JST

No nationalists, crabs and fish )))

Kuril islands is strategic object for security of Russia. Kuril islands is non-freezable gateway to Pacific Ocean. No one other reasons.

A crabs, fish and nationalist emotions is not actual. If you learn history about WW2 you can understand that we have not excess military power. Really Japan not lose big territory - compare that with area military base of USA.

Also now Japan get gas from Sakhalin and not lose money for protection it from USA and China. Also lats 65 years Russia asked some project to Japan on Kiruls. But Japan now not approve it. But some day ago Gemba told that he will be develop economic plan for work with Russia and on Kurils too. We hope that will be.

@zichiSep. 09, 2011 - 07:52AM JST

With the vast size of Russia, why does it need the Kurils?

You can get easy answer that based on geographic knowledge.

Because for Russia Kuril islands is non-freezable gateway to Pacific Ocean. We have only two non-freezable sea ports to oceans: Murmansk and Vladivostok.

Once again the Soviets/Russians are beating their war drum. Flying bombers off of our coast is not defensive but a threat. Time for the Americans to do the same. Then again the Russians can not spot their bombers.

These old relics of the Cold War, the Sky BEars are pieces of junk, but there are the muscles of Putin flexed. He's dangerous. The Russians have been flying these ol' work horses round the UK, Canada and even Guam recently too.

there are some officials/"scholars" in china and a few other places who quadruple this number every few years. 10 million sound too small. Just ask someone in Beijing or San Francisco, and get the latest number. it must be better for your hate/demonise-japa, holier-than-thou, feel-good history.

the 10+ million figure is accepted by most historians. japan were the nazis of asia

smithinjapan Same war Japan killed some 10 million across Asia

have you checked the latest figure?

there are some officials/"scholars" in china and a few other places who quadruple this number every few years. 10 million sound too small. Just ask someone in Beijing or San Francisco, and get the latest number. it must be better for your hate/demonise-japa, holier-than-thou, feel-good history.

valley-of-the-shadows: "Take what someone gives you, but leave what is not yours."

huh? Like Japan did from the early 1900s to WWII? Like they're still trying to do in at least three island disputes?

VicMOsaka: "So, what was the war and fighting that Japan and Russia were doing so that Russia could take the islands? Did they take them in conquest, or just sort of steal them when no one was looking."

Geez... let me check my history stats... ummm... has there been any world wars? If memory serves that might have been one or two, and perhaps it was at the end of the second that Russia took the islands and expelled the Japanese there. Oh wait! There WAS a WWII! Same war Japan killed some 10 million across Asia and colonized much of it before being shot out its backside and having to give up all the lands it stole (or most, anyway... they're still claiming a few).

The row over the Kurils, which Soviet troops seized in the closing days of World War II in 1945, has prevented the two countries from signing of a post-World War II peace treaty.

Take what someone gives you, but leave what is not yours.

jackieng, next time will be very different. So Russia is flying 50 year old bombers. The fighters should of painted them to show their "love".

Japan has problems with , Korea, china. Russia...be friendly with them...

does japan really want to get embarassed by russia again?

Russia is too big for its own good, they need to start using their heads a bit more, say, asking the Japanese if they would like OIL?? Russia has lots and lots of OIL and Im sure South Korea, Japan etc..CHINA?? would love to get oil pipe lines to this part of the world and it would make a possible WIN WIN situation.

VicMOsaka

So, what was the war and fighting that Japan and Russia were doing so that Russia could take the islands? Did they take them in conquest, or just sort of steal them when no one was looking.

Um Vic it was a small conflict called WW2 maybe you have heard of it? If not try looking it up. As for taking them in conquest well they sort of did invade and where conquering before the Japanese surrendered so you could say that.

smithinjapan: Excellent comment!

Soviet troops seized in the closing days of World War II in 1945

Case closed, don't start a war if you don't like losing.

Apart from the nut jobs who drive around in the all black ice-cream vans, who really cares? What difference do these little islands really make? Exactly. A load of fuss over nothing.

smithinjapan,

Spoils of war, my friend. Nothing Japan can do about it, and as time passes so does any chance to get them back. They should have agreed to Russia's proposal way back when, but they did not, and now their pooched.

So, what was the war and fighting that Japan and Russia were doing so that Russia could take the islands? Did they take them in conquest, or just sort of steal them when no one was looking.

I think the Russians message is : We are watching you, you watch yourself!

With Japan's extensive radar network and all remaining radar are planned to be upgraded to the most modern type J/FPS-4 and J/FPS-5, it will be the other way around. Japan can watch Russia's air space closer to the Russian Far-East region including Sakhalin Islands

http://newpacificinstitute.org/jsw/?p=4011

May be they just try to create some stir to encourage China.

USNinJapan2: Thanks for the technical info... very informative. Anyway, you're right about the Russians being Russian, same as the Chinese will be Chinese and do similar things if not outright incursions into actual Japanese territory, and Japan will be Japan and complain and issue double-standards about what makes all the islands theirs in their many disputes. I don't think there's too much need to be wary about this particular incident, as such (with China, maybe, but not in this case), and at least they got some jet-scrambling practice out of the deal.

I think the Russians message is : We are watching you, you watch yourself! Mr Noda's infamous ' WW2 war criminals were no war criminals' remark maybe irked Russia as well!

the Russians already got their revenge in 1939 when the Soviet Red army utterly trounced the IJA's Sixth army in the Nomonhan incident.................................

not very well known bit of history, that incident should be made into a movie.

Praise Russia for defiances!

An unconventional way to get them back is to build a reactor on the North Coast of Hokkaido.

But if they got over that they would only have the DPRK abductions and Dokdo to play the victim card about. Oh, and the US military presence in Okinawa and US military vehicles making u-turns on public roads. And...

globalwatcher: "The Northern Islands always have been a part of Japan, no matter what Russian say. These Islands were invaded and taken away from Japan right after WWII."

They most certainly have NOT always been a part of Japan, have they? at least not since WWII ended. They are Russian-held and administered, and for all intensive purposes Russian territory. Only one nation disputes this -- and claim ownership of Senkaku for the same of the same reasons they deny the Kurils are Russian (again, Russian maintained and lived on).

And just as a point of order, the Russians ceased the islands in the CLOSING DAYS of WWII, not after it. They are Russian islands, and will stay that way. The more Japan whines about it and drags Russian flags through the dirt in front of the Russian embassy, the worse their plight. Again, had they accepted Russia's offer way back when they might have TWO of the islands back, but ultra-nationist pride prevented it, and now they have none. They'd be better for it if they just got over the whole thing.

Although there was no actual intrusion of Japanese airspace by the strategic bombers, ASDF sent fighters to scramble on them. Fighters were also sent to scramble the Chinese Y8 reconnaissance aircraft that was flying close to Senkaku islands around noon yesterday.

smithinjapan

So long as they're only NEAR Japanese airspace and not actually in it I'm not sure what the problem is.

These flights were long-range bomber runs which flew through the Air Defense Identification Zones (ADIZ) of both Japan and South Korea. Aircraft, both civilian and military but especially military, are typcially required to identify themselves, state their planned course and destination and any other details required of them by the querying air traffic control. Although the ADIZ is defined by Japan (and Korea), they are well publicized and Russia is well aware of where these ADIZs were. They intentionally flew into/through them without proper notification and identification in order to provoke a response from the nations. These planes actually encroached far enough into the South Korean ADIZ that 4 ROK Air Force F15s were scrambled on them. It's a provocative act that was par for the course back in the Cold War days but hardly acceptable now in peace time especially against a 'friendly' nation. Then again, it's just the Russians being Russian after all...

If Japan's direct assertions for the islands don't work out, it can always intervene elsewhere, say on the other side of the continent? see how that will factor out

societymike - tough to give the bedrock argument more than a fleeting glance.. How far to we go back; maybe when the world was still a pangaea and all from the same rock. That way Japan could possibly claim everywhere is its territory

Spoils of war, my friend. Nothing Japan can do about it, and as time passes so does any chance to get them back. They should have agreed to Russia's proposal way back when, but they did not, and now their pooched.

smith I have a different view from yours as listed above.

The Northern Islands always have been a part of Japan, no matter what Russian say. These Islands were invaded and taken away from Japan right after WWII.

Do you allow a thief to claim your property as theirs?

Going back to the main topic, I believe they are testing water to see how Noda , his administration and US will respond.

I guess some local mafia boss called Cremlin just a day before the drills to inform them that on the oroginally designated place he's having hunting or fishing party...and that's what they came up in a hurry.

societymike: "They were always Japanese islands, with Japanese decendents and villages. They are physically part of the Japan island chain, formed from the same portion of bedrock."

Spoils of war, my friend. Nothing Japan can do about it, and as time passes so does any chance to get them back. They should have agreed to Russia's proposal way back when, but they did not, and now their pooched.

There were actually two Tupolev Tu-95 strategic bombers flying close to Japan's airspace for 14 hours. The two strategic bombers also flew off Fukushima to coincide with Noda's visit there.

Ok so Japan is complaining (yet again) about the Russians in the Kurils. Islands which even this article admits the Russians seized from Japan PRIOR to the end of WW2. So what is Japan complaining about?

the Russian military had designated an area within its own airspace.

Yes the Japanese are complaining about the Russians conducting military exercises in Russian airspace, wow how dare those evil Russians actually conduct an exercise in Russian airspace. How disgraceful!!!! Japan in regards to this PLEASE SHUT UP! havnt you got enough to worry about without annoying your neighbors with trivial crap. Maybe you could concentrate on the radiation in your country of the hundred dead from the Typhoon, you know important issues.

Oh and good to see that Chief Cabinet Secretary Osamu Fujimura admits the area is Russian as well, that is an improvement.

Oh come on you lot, what would you expect your own countries to do? (just on this issue) Be silent?

Japan should "return" all of this islands to China, S-Korea, Russia. I know there are potential resources such as oil and fish etc. but a peace treaty would be more important than some country's ego, which is led by lot of old people ready for retirement anyways. Maybe hard to explain to some Japanese first of all but if they actually try to it would make sense. Russia for instance has lots of rich people so tourism, business would expand and flush money into the country, maybe not instantly but over a certain period of time.

Also regarding air and sea space, surly Japan is operating it's whaling fleet all in Japanese waters?

why dont the noisy black trucks guys or some LDP politician flight over there to stop the russian? i guess they know they get they butt kick.

poor japan. always getting 'bullied'. dont worry, uncle sam will give you a hug lol

Suppose it is time for another defense drill by America and Russia. The goal is defense from a Russian attack. Put some more pac IIIs to defend against the Russian threat. Remember the Russians shot down a defenseless civilian airliner not far from this "exercise" site.

get over it, japan! the kurils belongs to russia. full stop. nothing can change that fact. dont make the russians get serious on you again.

"Aren't there more pressing matters in Japan at the moment?"

Yes, they need to get the Americans out of Futenma, lol.

^^ uh, YES they do

They were always Japanese islands, with Japanese decendents and villages. They are physically part of the Japan island chain, formed from the same portion of bedrock. Russia IS being the bully here, just like they have always been. Japan should shoot them out of the sky if they cross over, call it payback for Georgia.

The Japanese have a reasonably good argument concerning their ownership of the disputed islands

erm...no they dont

oh japan cry me a river!

So long as they're only NEAR Japanese airspace and not actually in it I'm not sure what the problem is.

It would be more helpful if they could give us a better understanding and perhaps a map of what exactly "uncomfortably close" means. The negative feelings held by a large percentage of Japanese toward Russia and China are exacerbated by these unnecessary and provocative acts.

These and the US military assistance during the 3/11 disasters is why the US presence by the the Japanese has seen a larger share of support recently.

I don't trust either country to be nearly as benign as the US and Japan should always be on their guard against them.

oh rainier, maybe I do, and maybe I don't...no you may not. regardless, you fail to draw any parallels with these never-ending stories of one little thing setting Japan off, and the behavior of children? his boat came too close to MY water! It's mine mine mine mine mine. mommy!

Aren't there more pressing matters in Japan at the moment?

Zichi, it is called good crabs and fishing.

"With the vast size of Russia, why does it need the Kurils?"

@zichi: I'm no expert on the subject, but IMHO I think it's not so much a matter of need, but more of nationalist pride for Russia when it comes to the islands. They were soundly beaten by Japan in the early 20th century, so I'm thinkingthat this may be some form of payback, albeit 100 years after the fact.

@maitake: You don't live in Japan do you? If you do, may I ask why?

Are these planes/ships actually in Japan's airspace/coastal boundaries?

"the chinese are too close to our waters," "the chinese won't let us have our islands,"the russians won't let us have our islands" the koreans won't let us have our islands" "the russians are too close to our airspace".. wah wah wah. Japan, you poor little thing. everyone just bullies you. when will the world give you a break? Do you want some milk and cookies?