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Japan says U.N. envoy retracts remarks on schoolgirl sex

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This not about what it poses to be. It is a camel's nose under the tent to get a foot hold one Japan's societal norms.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Good grief. Arguing over 3% is illustrative of why this problem exists in the first place. Rather than worrying about whatever percentage of girls who are being victimized in the sex trade, Japan is more interested in denying any self-perceived criticism. The entire world know Japan sexualizes girls.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

commanteer - the UN does focus on such problems. It actually goes from country to country making reports on the state of things in those countries. There are reports for England, Australia, Brazil etc etc.

This report is about Japan and the situation in Japan. It focuses on the acknowledged problems in Japan. It doesn't attempt to balance the degree of "badness" displayed by each and every country in comparison with each other.

Falling into the trap of "well others do worse" adds zilch to the discussion on the problem at hand, ie. the problem of enjo kosai in Japan.

And re your observations of enjo kosai - any links prvding data to "most doesn't involve sex" & "..it's not comparable to the sex trade in other countries" & ".....are just not the norm in Japan" would be appreciated.

Thanking in advance.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Aside the from the obvious fact that all countries have underage prostitutes, here's what makes it seem the UN is singling out Japan. In Japan, most of this enjokosai is done by the girls themselves. Most doesn't involve actual sex. Even when sex is involved, it's not comparable to the sex trade in other countries, where abductions, drug use, and beatings from pimps are the norm. (Not that these don't occur, they are just not the norm in Japan.)

As creepy as it is for a grown man to pay for tea with a schoolgirl, it is nowhere near comparable to to a beaten and terrorized girl being held by a pimp in a brothel. I think the UN should focus on more serious problems.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Toshiko-san said,

She used narrow translation of enkou as child prostitution that is done by Jr and Sr Hs children. I thinkshr figured if it were 10 % then must be . 13 % now as population grows. This often happens poor arithmetic people try to figure % browth.

Strangerland said,

And why would the percentage change if the population grew? Percentages are a relative number, not absolute.

That's the point Toshiko-san was making. Some people who are weak in math might assume "If x% were doing something in the 90's and the population has increased y% since then, then it (erroneously) follows that (x+y)% must be doing it now."

0 ( +1 / -1 )

older women and young boys are called gyaku enkou. Remind you, there are rich women who inherited family wealth and decided to be single than becoming maid wife.

If sex is included, with child and adult both are arrested, 2015 10/5 revived

There are more related Child Prostitution laws related to En Kou.

Haven't found students article or data yet.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Here's a simple open source diagram mapping the possible "enkou" relationships between Japanese adults and Japanese children. In the mapping FC = (female child), MC = (male child), FA = (female adult) and MA = (male adult)

(1) MA + FC

(2) MA + MC

(3) FA + FC

(4) FA + MC

The "enkou" between Japanese FC and MA is well documented but anecdotal evidence suggests that male child prostitution also exists in Japan therefore it is incredibly naive and incredibly negligent to ignore the other possible combinations.

More research is needed in order to obtain objective data...

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Recall there's an old article about the 90s:

http://flatrock.org.nz/topics/men/name_brand_beauties_on_sale.htm

During the early 1990's enjokosai was a hot topic with the media... The Asian Women's Fund... about 960 high school girls at random to poll. Of them, only 63%, or 600, responded. Of the girls who had "experienced" enjokosai, 23% said they had sex. Another 23% engaged in sexual activities other than sexual intercourse

According to a recent survey of junior high school students in their final year, 17% thought there is nothing wrong with enjo kosai and 13% replied that they felt no reluctance in practicing it.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

FadamorNOV. 13, 2015 - 05:25AM JST toshikoNOV. 13, 2015 - 03:29AM JST

Wikipedia says "fewer than 10 %", citing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enjo_k%C5%8Dsai

Fukutomi Mamoru (March 1997). "An Analytical Study on the Causes of and Attitudes Toward 'Enjo Kōsai' among Female High School Students in Japan". Professor, Tokyo Gakugei University (Asian Women's Fund): 75–76.

Here is the link to the report. http://www.awf.or.jp/pdf/0024.pdf

There is no such description on pages 75-76 of the research paper. But on page 4, it says,

an investigation by the Tokyo Metropolitan Government in 1996 (N=1291 from 1st grade junior high school to 3rd grade high school) showed 4.0% of female high school students and 3.8% of female junior high school students have engaged in enjo kosai.

Maybe, 4.0% and 3.8% are "fewer than 10%". Also, enjo kosai may not mean sex, as shown in the 1998 survey of 600 high school girls by AWF. http://www.awf.or.jp/pdf/0054.pdf

(page 7) Have you experienced following enjo kosai?

Drinking Tea: 4.8%

Sexual Act other than Intercourse: 2.3%

Sexual Intercourse: 2.3%

Any of above: 5.0%

The numbers matter, because effective counter measures against enjo kosai differ by prevalence. If the number is high, awareness campaign or law enforcement would be good. But the number is as low was 2%, much wider social problems, such as poverty, child's mental health, abuse history, uncaring parents etc. needs to be solved to solve the problem of enjo kosai.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Why? Is a teenager having sex with a middle-aged woman less of a problem?

You seem to have reading comprehension problems so I will refrain from saying anymore here.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

wolf. She is not from Japan. She figured population growth in her country.

For men who check skirt length od school girls eill complain forever. So. girls walk naked, they don't have reason to complain.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

And why would the percentage change if the population grew? Percentages are a relative number, not absolute.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

@toshiko

No matter what girls wear, some men always complain. I think they will not be satisfied unless girls walk naked.

What? There are plenty of men who are troubled by the way young girls dress these days. These guys are considered old fashioned or prudes. The fact is the desire to wear skimpy clothing comes from the young girls themselves.

I thinkshr figured if it were 10 % then must be . 13 % now as population grows.

Except Japan's population is not growing.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

She used narrow translation of enkou as child prostitution that is done by Jr and Sr Hs children. I thinkshr figured if it were 10 % then must be . 13 % now as population grows. This often happens poor arithmetic people try to figure % browth.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Concerns over the sexualisation of young girls

Thanks United Nations. The Japanese can handle their social-sexuality on their own but thanks for your concern.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

It´s curious how some people make a fuss for what neither of the 2 persons involved look as a problem. It´s something like what happen with homosexual relationships.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

@albaeo: older wonmen ans younger boys --- gyaku enkou.'

both are called jidou baishun. narrowly, prostitution using children.

I am still checking Japanese language version od Wiki article. But Japanese laws seem to treat those enkou activities as prostitution.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Teenagers having sex with middle-aged men IS a problem

The obvious two questions:

Why?

Is a teenager having sex with a middle-aged woman less of a problem?
3 ( +6 / -3 )

A quick trip to Akihabara will produce lots of evidence of the child pornography allowed in Japan. Look harder UN. You aren't trying hard enough.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

Sorry, nowhere in the world are female minors treated as sexual objects more than in Japan

I don't know where you're from, and perhaps your country is better. Where I live, it's a serious problem. In Japan, at least the problem is somewhat out in the open. Everyone has heard of enjo kosai. Most people know where the sleaze clubs, soaplands, clubs, cabarets, are, and are aware of the differences. Here, in the UK, we are shocked when we read with our breakfast news of gangs that exploit young girls by the thousands. The bigger shock is that we didn't know it had been happening for years.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

Not standing up for Japan but can people proof their country don't have a similar problem? Teenage sex is rampant globally and has been for millennia, recall my own teens.

Teenagers having sex isnt the problem. Teenagers having sex with middle-aged men IS a problem.

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

I can only go by the English Wiki as my Japanese is too poor to ensure proper comprehension on my part. The studies referenced in the English Wiki were published in 1997/1998, which means they were using data taken a year or so earlier. So the "under 10%" quote used by klausdorth was referring to very outdated data and referred back then only to a percentage of high school girls. Even if the percentage is still correct, we can't just assume it hasn't changed over the past two decades. It could have gone up to 20%, or it could have dropped to under 5%. Without a more recent study being conducted, we won't know. Does the 2008 update in the Japanese Wiki quote a more recent study, or is it still referencing the same studies from the late 90's?

4 ( +4 / -0 )

doesn't she want to clear her name now, why wait till march 2016? to search for hard evidence?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Fadamor, I went to read your link above on Wiki And read Japanese language section, always English explanation is summary. Japanese language explanation looks updated in 2008. Very many different articles and legal explanation. I don't think she referred Wiki. Try to read Japanese language explanation. Historical development in society and who are objects of articles up to 2008.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

I put a link in the previous article concerning this topic and it clearly states that it was less than 10%. (Wikipedia) Now, if anyone has any doubts about this "source", you can question all the information on that site. Again, even if it is "only" 10% .... it is way too much.

I found no link in your post, but I am assuming it is the Wiki entry for "Enjo Kousai". The figures quoted in that wiki entry come from an entire generation ago - the late 90's - and therefore bear no resemblance to the problem in today's schools. Additionally, the "10%" figure in the wiki entry only applies to high school girls of the previous generation while this U.N. envoy made no such distinction, effectively including all Japanese elementary and middle school girls in her figure and skewing it even farther from plausibility.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enjo_k%C5%8Dsai

1 ( +2 / -1 )

@Bill; No matter what girls wear, some men always complain. I think they will not be satisfied unless girls walk naked.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

Alphaape:

Look at the "Photo of the Day" pic on the front page of JT. You see a group of school girls in uniform. Ever notice how short the skirts are on the school girls,

Firstly, those skirts do NOT look short at all; they look pretty modest to me. Secondly, it is the girls who choose to wear short skirts, NOT the schools that tell them to. And thirdly, this is NOT a Japanese issue, as the same thing - schoolgirls shortening their skirts to look attractive - happens all over the world.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

The UN needs to be packed up and moved from NYC to Pyongyang, North Korea. Making unsubstantiated accusations about a country is way out of line with the mission of the UN.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

tinawatanabeNOV. 12, 2015 - 08:45PM JST How do you get the idea she has some agenda against Japan?! because she can not provide evidence but accuse Japan out of about 200 countries in the world. Does Japan have more teenage pregnancy than other countries?

Paranoid or simply insecure about your nationality as Japanese, I'm not sure which (by the way the Un made no mention of 'teenage pregnancies' only ejo-kosai). You do realize it is one of the jobs of the UN to investigate and announce findings about problems in different countries in the world - help for humans without borders. They point out problems in all countries, not just Japan.

Of course, I think you are probably not representative of most Japanese. Most Japanese are aware of their own country's problems and appreciate the support and attention from international organisations.

-3 ( +5 / -8 )

When Japan subsequently demanded that she present evidence for the claim, de Boer-Buquicchio said this month she had “no official statistics” on compensated dating.

OK she slandered Japan with heresay evidence of underaged prostitution. I guess if it can be found on the Internet it must be true!

In her letter, de Boer-Buquicchio vowed not to use the figure in the future and said the number will not be part of a report to be submitted to the U.N. Human Rights Council, Suga said.

No apology for making up "facts"? Yes enjo-kosai is a serious issue but it does no good for UN officials to make up statistics because they are concerned about something. Maud de Boer-Buquicchio is not a very professional representative of the UN. Come on Maud, apologize.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Meanwhile, the special envoy is from the Netherlands, where 10% of prostitutes are drug addicts. No comments about that , though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_the_Netherlands#Extent_of_prostitution

-5 ( +5 / -10 )

for those saying Japan needs to fix this, how do you propose they stop the girls from doing it? I'm not defending Japan or the practice, but I know that teenagers are pretty stubborn about doing what they want, even when against the rules, so I'm curious about how they should be stopped.

0 ( +5 / -6 )

Leave it up to an old dyke looking bureaucrat to stir up exploitation hysteria in order to implant another government program that Japan would have to pay for. Once women hit 18, they can work in a bar and hit a guy up for a drink costing 800% more, so he can say a few syllables and stare at her. I say we need to stop the exploitation of stupid males who get separated from their money by pretty women. These poor old guys need to go to a government brainwashing center so they won't like young women. Perhaps they can be programmed to desire old, fat, and ugly.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

I think many of these girls have very low self esteem in the first place and are the product of very bad parenting. In many other countries these kids do drugs.... and that is a problem that is well accounted for and being addressed. This should also be addressed as it is not normal behavior.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

@tinawatanabeNOV. 12, 2015 - 08:45PM JST How do you get the idea she has some agenda against Japan?! because she can not provide evidence but accuse Japan out of about 200 countries in the world. Does Japan have more teenage pregnancy than other countries?

''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

J has been complaining J's low birth rate.

You are missing a chance to be in the list of Open Source that her aides are creating from JT comment writers now

1 ( +2 / -1 )

"Japanese men continue to be a significant source of demand for child sex tourism in Southeast Asia and, to a lesser extent, Mongolia."

Doesn't this suggest that Japan has strengthened its laws against such practices since they are going out of the country? Americans engage in sex tourism too. On a lighter note, why don't people like Mongolians as much? :)=

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

True again. The entertainment industry exploits the circumstances and conditions where geezers are allowed to mingle with school girls. This is also part of the problem.

I can not for the life of me what a middle aged man sees in wanting to have sex with a teenager, who is probably younger than his own daughter.

Guys are living in a fantasy world.

(Sorry but I respect and love my wife too much. Women are beautiful to look at, and respect and appreciate, but that doesnt mean I want to plant any seeds among the fertile ground.)

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

It"S MENOV. 12, 2015 - 08:41PM JST Is your country full of saints and virgins till marriage?

Not standing up for Japan but can people proof their country don't have a similar problem? Teenage sex is rampant globally and has been for millennia, recall my own teens.

Japanese folks, can you please stop taking the UN investigation and Maud de Boer-Buquicchio's comments personally!!?? Drop the egos already!!

It's not about protecting some false image of your country in the eyes of the world - all they want to do is protect children and young girls from sexual abuse and objectification. Okay!?

Now, do you not agree there is a problem with the way young girls are seen and portrayed in Japanese society? Yes, then let's work with international bodies like the UN and the J-government to help young Japanese girls - that's what we all care about here, right? No? Maybe the problem is more serious than we thought.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

Tina.

You mighth a shock going home by just looking at the teenage pregnancy rate.

My point is humans are humans and that counts across countries, in short same mistakes and failings.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Granted it isn't as prevalent as it was during the bubble years, but it still exists.

I was new (in Japan) during those bubble years . . . but heck, It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see and figure out how all those school girls were just "living off the fat of the land" in those days.

if there were no "customers" or guys willing to pay, the problem would not exist.

True again. The entertainment industry exploits the circumstances and conditions where geezers are allowed to mingle with school girls. This is also part of the problem.

2 ( +3 / -2 )

Not standing up for Japan but can people proof their country don't have a similar problem? Teenage sex is rampant globally and has been for millennia, recall my own teens.

Teens are NOT stupid and know what goes down and have for millennia.

Parents etc still believe in a perfect world, not me I got a teenage son and sex, etc are open topics, always make sure he has 1-2 Condoms in his wallet. My dad did the same.

Sent on a dare and it was" have fun but don't maketrouble, or "if you are not in bd by 23;00 come home"..

Heck at times my GF slept over in a 3lDK apartment so everyone knew.

Rather have my teen son enjoy himself vs tying him to a stygma he will regret for the rest of his life

Like I said sex is NOT a tabooo but you need to bre educadet. L

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

Interesting that there are folks who are willing to stand up for Japan in this situation. The number or percentage really isnt the point, the point and seemingly missed by many here so far is interestingly enough going to be made here;

Please note ... the Special Rapporteur will not make further comments on this issue until the presentation of her full and comprehensive report on her visit to Japan to the UN Human Rights Council in March 2016.”

She is coming to Japan to check things out for herself. How much does anyone want to bet something will happen between now and then to prevent her from coming to Japan to make her report.

Whether it be 3% , 10%, 30% it doesnt matter, enjo-kosai exists in Japan, and it's not the girls that are the problem, it's the guys paying for them that need to be stopped. Just like somewhere I know a cop stated, It's time we stopped prosecuting young girls and young women for prostitution and calling them criminals, they are victims. And should be treated as such too!"

These girls can not be blamed for their actions, even in Japan they are seen as treated as minors, if there were no "customers" or guys willing to pay, the problem would not exist. Granted it isn't as prevalent as it was during the bubble years, but it still exists.

I know of a HS girl who died down here in Okinawa who did both enjo-kosai and worked in a soapland too. She made more money per month than all of her teachers. SHe was a great student, but led a double life, and died in a fire in a soapland. The lure of the money is what is attractive to these girls, instead of working at a pt job for 700 yen per hour, they can make a killing playing games with some guy old enough to be their grandfather in some cases. Can anyone blame them for that?

It's sick, I know, so hammer the old guys, "out" them to the world, embarrass the crap out of them and their families will disown them in a heartbeat. Enjo-kosai would die out quick if guys knew the risks!

0 ( +7 / -7 )

Miguel.

They have will always find a way best way is that they are educated on safe sex, etc Give them Condoms, etc.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

@Mary Hinge 69 I agree. I would probably say the same about you if I saw you with an expensive bag. I would not give you the benefit of the doubt but I would promptly state that you prostituted yourself to buy it. Fair, right?

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

@wigloobuyer, well, if I had a teenager daugther and I were concerned with her sexual life, I have clear that I would need to raise her well, restrict permissions and watch her very carefully.

0 ( +2 / -1 )

How do you get the idea she has some agenda against Japan?!

because she can not provide evidence but accuse Japan out of about 200 countries in the world. Does Japan have more teenage pregnancy than other countries?

-5 ( +4 / -9 )

Is your country full of saints and virgins till marriage?

Doublt it teeens are the most sexually active group most starting by age 13:or 14, most know more about sex than their parents.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

CH#CHO - if your 1998 % was correct - 2.3% & it may or may not be - then that means out of about 3,500,000 high school girls (not including junior high) that almost 90,000 ere involved.

Shouldn't be acceptable for an advanced society to believe this is an acceptable statistic to tolerate.

-1 ( +4 / -4 )

Miguel LozanoNOV. 12, 2015 - 08:13PM JST Because I happen to know many teenagers schoolgirls involved in a crazy sexual style of life, I can say that is a myth that paid dates harm them. Everyone live their experiences in a different way, but girls who voluntary look for it use to enjoy it too. Thats why since the begining not even see it like a problem.

Plenty of young girls drink, smoke and take drugs and grow up to be normal too; are you saying it is okay to allow that to happen because that is effectively what you are saying.

Also, how do you know they are okay and how do you know what it can lead to and how it affects them psychological and emotionally in the long term. Evidence shows even if someone enjoys something doesn't mean it isn't harming them in some way. Would you be happy with your young daughter being used as sex objects by older men. I would definitely not be okay with that.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Not to mention that Japan comes in tier 2 nation (the only developed nation in that tier),

@percynjpn. No you don't consider Portugal, Hungary, Estonia, UAE (Dubai), Hong Kong, South Africa, Greece, Argentina or Costa Rica to be developed nations?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Because I happen to know many teenagers schoolgirls involved in a crazy sexual style of life, I can say that is a myth that paid dates harm them. Everyone live their experiences in a different way, but girls who voluntary look for it use to enjoy it too. Thats why since the begining not even see it like a problem.

-4 ( +4 / -7 )

CH3CHONOV. 12, 2015 - 07:40PM JST Yes, it should be discussed. The only person who is unwilling to discuss is the UN special rapporteur by hiding her data source.

You know that her mission is to protect the human rights of children and (usually) young females from abuse around the world, don't you? She is simply deeply concerned about the welfare of Japanese girls - that's it.

How do you get the idea she has some agenda against Japan?!

3 ( +4 / -2 )

It will be very hard to get specific numbers on how many girls do this. It can only ever be estimates, as most girls wouldn't admit to participating in it. But I would say that the focus should be less on what percentage of girls are taking part in compensated dating. The focus should be on what do we do to stop this. How do we tell girls this isn't a good thing to do. How can we go after the guys that are basically buying underage prostitutes?

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Makoto ShimizuNOV. 12, 2015 - 07:04PM JST

10% in 1998 according to WIKIPEDIA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enjo_k%C5%8Dsai

66,100 results in Google for " ENJO KOSAI "

This fact cannot be denied or hidden and must be frankly disucssed by all serious people.

Yes, it should be discussed. The only person who is unwilling to discuss is the UN special rapporteur by hiding her data source.

By the way, Wikipedia says, "fewer than 10%". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enjo_k%C5%8Dsai#cite_note-4

Furthermore, in a 1998 survey by the Asian Women's Fund, researchers found that fewer than 10 percent of all high school girls engage in enjo-kōsai and over 90 percent of the girls interviewed attested to feeling uncomfortable with the exchange or purchase of sexual services for money.[4]

1998 survey of 600 high school girls by AWF shows following. http://www.awf.or.jp/pdf/0054.pdf

page 7

Have you experienced following enjo kosai?

Drinking Tea: 4.8%

Sexual Act other than Intercourse: 2.3%

Sexual Intercourse: 2.3%

Any of above: 5.0%

The number was 2.3% rather than 13% in 1998.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

13% or 10%, does it matter?

Or so it goes, lots of "expert" gaijin bleat out!!!

Of course, it doesn't matter as this is an issue affecting Japain, therefore it's justified to throw away figures taken out of one's backside, no need for any backing whatsoever.

If it affects Japain, open sources are just fine and dandy!!!

In the same vein, I would love to hear a Japainese UN envoy declare that 13% of all gaijin in Japain are losers, misfits and criminals. After all they do exist, don't they?

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

@Kazuaki Shimazaki - "If you see something and all you can think is 'despicable sexual object'"

The dictionary definition of "despicable" is "very ​unpleasant or ​bad, ​causing ​strong ​feelings of ​dislike"

Thank you for sharing the Japanese male point of view... ;-)

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/despicable

3 ( +5 / -1 )

Agree with Katsuaki grew up in a society where nudity is NOT a tabooo. Even public pools allowed Top-less 30 yrs ago.

Not uncommon to cycle through my town and all of a sudden being surrounded by nudists, you just didn't notice the markings on the the road.

Sauna, etc are also shared by both sexes and all ages. Towels are for sitting on them.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Once when she was walking on the street with a high school friend, a Japanese man asked them point-black in the middle of the street, if they would be interested for how much. As she was telling me this story, the look on her face turned dishonorably indignant,

Your female friend would show the same face against the comment by the UN rapporteur.

Maybe. My friend thinks enjo kosai is a problem though - that's why she was writing her report.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

10% in 1998 according to WIKIPEDIA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enjo_k%C5%8Dsai

66,100 results in Google for " ENJO KOSAI "

This fact cannot be denied or hidden and must be frankly disucssed by all serious people.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

@letsberealisticNOV. 12, 2015 - 02:59PM JST

Sorry, nowhere in the world are female minors treated as sexual objects more than in Japan - that was the whole point of the UN's visit. You have also demonstrated quite clearly the other problem; it is accepted by the Japanese population as being normal (especially male Japanese like yourself). It is not normal, and it is harmful to society and to the status and rights of young Japanese women.

Let me suggest a thought. If you see something and all you can think is "despicable sexual object" does it say more about you or about the people who don't see a sexual object?

-3 ( +4 / -8 )

I think most people mistake Enjo Kosai for child prostitution, in most cases they girls are given a luxury item (LV or Guchi) in exchange for spending time with an older man(pensioner).

They do it to be part of the "in-crowd".

Sex might be involved but you can get underage sex for a few thou (so I hear). No need to but a bag that costs a few man.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

lostrune2NOV. 12, 2015 - 06:09PM JST

Once when she was walking on the street with a high school friend, a Japanese man asked them point-black in the middle of the street, if they would be interested for how much. As she was telling me this story, the look on her face turned dishonorably indignant,

Your female friend would show the same face against the comment by the UN rapporteur.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Given the amount high school girls spend on desinger clothes, acsesories and gadgets I would not be at all suprised if this was not a developed world problem.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

A Japanese classmate once told me her story, when I was helping her write a school report regarding enjo kosai (which I didn't know what at the time):

Once when she was walking on the street with a high school friend, a Japanese man asked them point-black in the middle of the street, if they would be interested for how much. As she was telling me this story, the look on her face turned dishonorably indignant, that the man would even consider her for sale and that it's OK to ask her right in the middle of the street. (Ah, I should had taken a photo of that face!)

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Thanks for the 2008 PDF, Nessie. UN Special Rapporteurs are typically only deployed when there are serious concerns of abuses in the jurisdiction in question.

The government is aware of the problem and is taking measures

This was the state of play at the time of the report (2008):

Countermeasures to "Enjo kosai", or compensated dating

The National Police Agency has been offering awareness-raising activities, such as lectures to junior high school and high school students on how to prevent themselves from becoming crime victims, concerning the risk of using online dating sites which have a tendency to become a breeding ground for child prostitution. In addition, using the occasion of national meetings, Police departments disseminate information to police personnel regarding the Act on Punishment of Activities Relating to Child Prostitution and Child Pornography, and the Protection of Children and the Child Welfare Law in order to exercise strict control over such offences.

Readers can come to their own conclusions about how effective the countermeasures have been since 2008.

I hope the responsible ministries and agencies have sharpened their pencils, and act to remedy this shameful phenomenon, especially as we receive more and more tourists.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

tinawatanabeNOV. 12, 2015 - 01:33PM JST katsu78, what evidence do you have Japan did not own up to its history? No country apologized and paid more than Japan.

Tina, if you are going to bother to reply to me, please choose to do so honestly. You'll note my exact words (the words you quoted in your own comment) were:

And I think this is carry-over from Japanese right-wingers being so reluctant to own up to its World War II history.

So I did not say that Japan did not own up to its history. I said Japanese right-wingers are reluctant to own up to it. And I stand by that claim. Please do not waste both of our time by pretending I said something I did not.

7 ( +8 / -2 )

the US State Department rates the country poor for fighting sex/human trafficking

US just picked up a Japanese writer's allegation and awarded him. I don't think US ever inquired Japanese govt for clarification because Japan is still continuing the trainee programs which US calls sex/human trafficking.

(and Japan's poor nationalistic response to the UN proves this).

What do you expect Japan to do if UN is wrong?

-6 ( +4 / -10 )

"Japan says U.N. envoy retracts remarks on schoolgirl sex"

Meanwhile, back in the real world...

“joshi kôsei”... is a very serious matter that needs to be looked into – and official data compiled on it – urgently"

http://www.ohchr.org/en/NewsEvents/Pages/DisplayNews.aspx?NewsID=16700&LangID=E

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Papi2013NOV. 12, 2015 - 10:38AM JST I get the impression from all these denials, Japan is incapable dealing with truths.

However let's look at the inconvenient truths that Japanese government that refuses to deal with.

For instance, the report by the US State Department regarding sexual trafficking of Japanese school aged girls:

Japanese nationals, particularly runaway teenage girls and children of foreign and Japanese citizens who have acquired nationality, are also subjected to sex trafficking. The phenomenon of enjo kosai, also known as “compensated dating” and variants of the “JK business” (JK stands for joshi-kosei or high school girl) continue to facilitate the prostitution of Japanese children. Sophisticated and organized prostitution networks target vulnerable Japanese women and girls—often in poverty or with mental and intellectual disabilities—in public areas such as subways, popular youth hangouts, schools, and online; some of these women and girls become trafficking victims. Japanese men continue to be a significant source of demand for child sex tourism in Southeast Asia and, to a lesser extent, Mongolia.

http://www.state.gov/j/tip/rls/tiprpt/countries/2015/243463.htm

Not to mention that Japan comes in tier 2 nation (the only developed nation in that tier), since the US State Department rates the country poor for fighting sex/human trafficking (and Japan's poor nationalistic response to the UN proves this).

http://www.state.gov/j/tip/rls/tiprpt/2014/226649.htm

Posted in: Japan says U.N. envoy retracts remarks on schoolgirl sex

That sums up the actual situation well.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Alphaape, Girls roll their uniform skirts up as soon as they leave the house. This has gone on with girls in uniform at parochial schools at least since I was a kid in the US in the 60s. You assume a who lot that simply isn't accurate. Sorry to inform you.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

Westerners have looked Japanese school girls as sexual objects for years.

Not sure about that. Most (normal) westerners look at all asian women in general for their natural attractiveness. Not specifically regarding them as sexual objects.

The practice of sexualizing and exploiting japanese school girls (has always been &) is purely a japanese thing.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

We just roll the skirts up at the hip. Stop looking at the legs for a moment and look at the whole outfit.

They are rolled up at the hip, and often rolled down at school to follow the rules.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Is the UN now becoming the lapdog of Japan when it comes to issues that put Japan in a bad spotlight? please Japan doesnt need a lapdog to put itself in the spotlight, it does that just fine by itself. It seems to spend 24/7 trying to repair a bad image on many issues not just "schoolgirl paid dating"

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Oh good it has been retracted which means it doesn't happen. I feel better now.

11 ( +12 / -1 )

CHOCHO

Westerners have looked Japanese school girls as sexual objects for years.

I saw what you did there; you did the old 'switcharoo' - 'it's not us, it's you that has the problem.'

Sorry, nowhere in the world are female minors treated as sexual objects more than in Japan - that was the whole point of the UN's visit. You have also demonstrated quite clearly the other problem; it is accepted by the Japanese population as being normal (especially male Japanese like yourself). It is not normal, and it is harmful to society and to the status and rights of young Japanese women.

0 ( +8 / -7 )

letsberealisticNOV. 12, 2015 - 02:19PM JST

Japan is sticking up for Japan's 'sugar daddys' and more worried about saving face in the eyes of the world than doing anything about the sexualisation of teenage women in Japan.

You forgot the very important stakeholders in this 13% thing. The Japanese school girls themselves.

Westerners have looked Japanese school girls as sexual objects for years. This 13% statement by the UN envoy would have made Westerners feel less guilty of such fantasizing, if it were left unchecked.

0 ( +8 / -8 )

Kazuaki: "By the way, before everyone starts screaming about the "schoolgirl fetish", remember that it wasn't that long in the past when people marry in the teens (school-girl age). We are just seeing people's instincts continuing to realize this is the evolutionarily-determined optimal time to start reproductive activity while modern society tries to refuse this reality..."

The usual justifications. Until recent history, and very recent with Japan, it as okay to murder those below you. Should it be allowed because some people still can't fight their "instincts"?

-1 ( +8 / -8 )

Not good enough Japan.

"The Japanese government’s incredulity reflects a spotty track record of confronting sexual exploitation of children. Lagging far behind the United States and other Western nations, it took Japan’s parliament until 2014 to ban possession of child pornography, and even that law has been criticized for exempting sexually suggestive, though not explicit, images."

http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/11/10/the-humbert-humberts-of-japan-have-a-powerful-new-friend-in-tokyo/?page=full

-1 ( +9 / -9 )

Here is the lesson to be learned from this farce:

While some problems may indeed exist, be it comfort women or this, if you want the accused to be an actor, the last thing you want is to exaggerate the problem or go beyond the area you can prove with very hard facts. Quoting AWF or any one side might be fine for a netblogger, but not someone speaking with the implied authority of the United Nations.

Shaming encourages resistance at least as much as it does to correction. And if your claim isn't even well backed, the balance is tilted even more to the former.

By the way, before everyone starts screaming about the "schoolgirl fetish", remember that it wasn't that long in the past when people marry in the teens (school-girl age). We are just seeing people's instincts continuing to realize this is the evolutionarily-determined optimal time to start reproductive activity while modern society tries to refuse this reality...

-2 ( +9 / -12 )

Japan is sticking up for Japan's 'sugar daddys' and more worried about saving face in the eyes of the world than doing anything about the sexualisation of teenage women in Japan.

8 ( +13 / -4 )

regards to short skirt, not see it as a big deal. freedom of choice as long as not harming others. i wore uniform skirt in junior high, but that does not mean i was a bad girl. i wasn't even interest in guys or material things at that time, it was just like a game you played with school, every morning we all stood outside, teacher checked the length of skirt before class started, afterward we fold the waist part to shorten the skirt and thinking it was fun. it is not fair to have an older adult to make comment to HS girl, because of the age difference, the thinking is totally different.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

everyone (in the world) please ignore the smoke and mirrors attempt by Japan to cover up this sexualisation of teenage girls in Japan. Everyone in Japan knows that there is a serious problem here that, no doesn't' exist in other developed countries on the same level.

It is NOT about 'picking on Japan' or trying to make them look bad, it is about protecting very young women in Japan - one of which is my daughter.

2 ( +8 / -5 )

If Ms De Boer-Buquicchio wants to properly investigate child sex abuse for the UN, she should start with the UN itself!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child-sexual-abuse-by-UN-peacekeepers

2 ( +9 / -8 )

@Tina. The truth of whether Japan owned up or not is irrelevant to katsu78's post. He is talking about perceptions. And you seem to be confirming a perception Japanese seem to have of their country as being repeatedly victimised.

4 ( +6 / -1 )

Tinawatanabe: you couldn't be more wrong. Why do you think Germany and Japan are always contrasted?

1 ( +9 / -7 )

Yet very few people seem to believe Japan. Even if people grudgingly accept that de Boer-Buquicchio is in error, they seem to resent Japan calling her out for it. And I think this is carry-over from Japanese right-wingers being so reluctant to own up to its World War II history. Once you create the perception that you disingenuously hide the truth, people stop feeling they have to follow the rules of rational discourse when dealing with you. There's a lesson in that.

katsu78, what evidence do you have Japan did not own up to its history? No country apologized and paid more than Japan.

-13 ( +2 / -16 )

That woman at the UN shouldn't have made claims she can't back up with facts. She should know by now the the J. government is nothing but a bunch of whiners who, just like a lot of their citizens, firmly believe that if you don't talk about a problem it just doesn't exists.

Nothing is being done about it because the beneficiaries, or perpetrators of "compensated dating" are the disgusting oyajis who run this country. Just look at the faces of those politicians during parliamentary broadcast, wouldn't you give them a couple of years simply based on looks? I surely would, I guarantee most of them are dirty, one way or the other.

It's a male dominated society and those disgusting, old farts are taking maximum advantage.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Another research paper in Japanese (SAKURABA et al., 2001) says that of 600 school girls interviewed 30 or 5% had been involved in paid dating, where about half of them went to a cafe and did not affirm any sexual behaviour. This rather tends to confirm and repeat the results quoted above, where the definition of "paid dating" as "enjo kousai" may have been more physical.

SAKURABA, T., MATSUI, Y., FUKUTOMI, M., NARITA, K., KAMISE, Y., UI, M., & KIKUSHIMA, M. (2001). Background Factors of Amateur Prostitution (. The Japanese Journal of Educational Psychology, 49(2), 167–174. Retrieved from <http://ci.nii.ac.jp/naid/110001893231/en > Full paper in Japanese http://ci.nii.ac.jp/els/110001893231.pdf?id=ART0002072037&type=pdf&lang=en&host=cinii&order_no=&ppv_type=0&lang_sw=&no=1447300507&cp=

2 ( +3 / -1 )

This may end up as a huge backfire for Japan. You can bet that, at present the UN is investigating just how many teenage girls are involved in paid dating and also, how many of them involve under aged sex. From all my years teaching in high schools and colleges I would estimate the 13% to be around the actual true figure. I'd even go as far to say the actual number is probably higher.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

Of course, the other thing she's done is encouraged the perception that Japan is once again being victimised by the outside world in general and the UN in particular. There have been several valid UN criticisms of Japan's justice system, for example, but next time objection is raised by the UN it can more easily be parried by resort to "We poor Japanese. We are destined to be misunderstood and unfairly criticised by those who will forever be ignorant of our uniqueness."

0 ( +4 / -4 )

I "dated" several enjo kosai women in the 1990s in Tokyo, not for sex, we did not "do" anything in the love hotel I rented on a kukei basis, but I did this work for research for a book on Japan, and wow, these women 18 to 25 are really part of an amazing subculture. Sad. Yet they seem happy. I met them at hostess clubs in Kabukicho and they agreed to meet me later in the week for outside "dates." I paid. Research well spent. Very few reporters actually know what is going on and certainly not UN researchers.

0 ( +6 / -6 )

Papi2013

She must have gotten it from the Japanese sources. http://www.awf.or.jp/6/07-1.html Thanks. And there are not only Japanese sources at the above link. http://www.awf.or.jp/pdf/0024.pdf Says The involvement in the sex industry by junior high school or senior female high school students has recently become more prominent. For instance, according to the "report on children's attitudes ward life and their current situation" by the Japanese PTA Association, among the students who participated in the research, 27.0% of the female and 7.6% of the male students have used a telephone club [terekura - a way to meet people anonymously by leaving a phone message]. On the other hand, an investigation by the Tokyo Metropolitan Governemtn in 1996 (N=1291, from 1st grade junior high school to 3rd grade high school), showed that 4.0% of female high scholl students and 3.8% of female juniour high school students had engaged in "enjo kousai." The data may not be valid - it may only be the tip of the iceberg. p.4

4% is still a lot but a lot less than 13%. The same paper found that none of the (low number) 30 high school girls interviewed admitted to enjo kousai, and most appraised it negatively, but several also said they believed it to be an individual choice.

I had a look at a Japanese source. Each year there is a large national survey of sexual attitudes (青少年の性意識と性行動に関する 調査). This is the one from 2002 http://www.hemri21.jp/kenkyusyo/seika/katei/pdf/h14_01.pdf. The survey found that of 1449 schoolgirls, 28 girls or 1.9% admitted to having engaged in "enjo kousa" / paid dating and 9 boys or .7% of 1222 boys (p129). They also asked whether they thought "sex mixed with money" is acceptable and only 7.7 % of the school girls were cool with it ("kamawanai") or more cool with it than not (dochiraka to ieba kamawanai) (p.121) behaviour (not necessarily in self). There is also data on sexual predation p130 and many other sex related beahviours and attitudes.

The UN envoy seems to have been very mistaken. I wonder what the envoy's source was.

The same survey as above reports on page 64 that 12.9% of all schoolgirls were cool with it ("kamawanai") or more cool with it than not (dochiraka to ieba kamawanai), "sex with money involved", in the sub-sample of those from "home environments that are not good" (such as one parent families, presumably). Again, this is not about whether such girls have actually experienced the behaviour, but whether they think it an acceptable choice.

The survey question regarding the sex invovled with money was "お金をもらったりあげたりしてセックスをすること" What do you think of having sex, having given or received money. 69% of girls said it was "not good". and nearly 90% a negative appraisal.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

Papi, thanks for the links. Very informative. However, from the links I found that a 1996 study found 4% of female high school students had engaged in some form of enjo kosai (including "telephone club") but I couldn't find the 13% figure. I skimmed through many pages but could you point out which link and which page you got the number from? I appreciate your concern and interest in Japan even though you don't live here anymore.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Her mistake for using an exact percentage figure.

If she had said "there are no exact figures available, but according to some (Japanese ) sources around one in ten have some involvement", the government would have found it harder to attack her statement.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

This story is a lesson in narrative and perception. Rationally speaking, de Boer-Buquicchio is entirely in the wrong. It is not up to Japan to provide counter-evidence or any evidence at all. She made the claim, the onus is entirely on her to back it up with evidence. Only if she does so and Japan continues to dispute it does it then become necessary for Japan to provide counter-evidence or identify a flaw in her evidence.

Yet very few people seem to believe Japan. Even if people grudgingly accept that de Boer-Buquicchio is in error, they seem to resent Japan calling her out for it. And I think this is carry-over from Japanese right-wingers being so reluctant to own up to its World War II history. Once you create the perception that you disingenuously hide the truth, people stop feeling they have to follow the rules of rational discourse when dealing with you. There's a lesson in that.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

is percentage the point? in any case, she's put it out there, it's in people's minds, and on media-record, globally, a million times over, no retraction can undo that… (^▽^)

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

It's obviously a problem in Japan, but she was foolish to use unsubstantiated data like that. Someone of her position cannot be making undiplomatic mistakes like that

1 ( +3 / -1 )

have a look in shibuya. just take a few hours and watch.... than you know if this could be true or not....

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

The Japanese govt. will do what it does best in times like these - sweep it under the rug where it's never to be revisited along with all the other scandalous issues plaguing the country (that only ever seem to be brought up by foreign media outlets - Fukushima is a great example of this).

0 ( +6 / -6 )

@smithinjapan

Yes, I agree that the sexualisation of school girls in Japan is a major problem. I think it's fair to say that the no.1 sexual fantasy for Japanese men is the schoolgirl, But I also think the mistake that some people are making is assuming that the fantasies we see in porn videos, magazines and animes are actually playing out in reality. No doubt that it's happening to some extent, but I'm not going to be convinced that it's widespread until I see some credible evidence (keeping in mind every hysterical rumor about promiscuous sex has turned out to be overblown, from teenage pregnancy in the 90s to gay men in the 80s to hippies in the 60s to flappers in the 20s).

Yes, there are ads for enjo kosai or schoolgirl prostitution in the back of men's magazines but I wonder how many of these girls are actually over 18 or in their 20s but still dressing up in uniform to seperate men from their money? It's like in the west where every porn actor claims to have just turned 18, even though they look well into their 30s.

0 ( +4 / -5 )

roughneckNOV. 12, 2015 - 10:25AM JST

http://www.ohchr.org/en/NewsEvents/Pages/DisplayNews.aspx?NewsID=16700&LangID=E

Thanks, roughneck. But her UN excuse letter makes me more doubtful of her capability. She wrote,

Regarding the estimate of minors allegedly involved in compensated dating (the so-called “joshi kôsei” or “JK business”), there was an error of interpretation during the press conference, and the percentage I cited (13%) was mistranslated as 30%.

"JK business" and compensated dating(enjo kosai) are totally different things.

"JK business" is a business such as a coffee shop where all waitresses are high school girls. No sex is involved.

Compensated dating may involve sex, or may end just having a good time watching movie, having dinner, etc.

She should not have confused the two.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

The 13% figure for "schoolgirls" was always a ridiculous number as schoolgirls are aged from 6 ~ 18.

But if we focus on highschool girls only - 15yrs ~ 18yrs - ( according to statistics there are about 1,600,000 of them) a 5% as some have suggested would indicate that about 80,000 girls indulge in EK activities. It could be less or it could be more, but whatever the total number is nothing to brush away.

The problem is not the %, but rather society's / govt acknowledgement that there is a problem and openly discuss the situation and remedial action.

Playing ad nauseum - show us the proof, is just hiding behind reality. Do something.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Despite all the naysayers I would be very surprised if 13% was accurate. If we just take high school kids that is around 170000 girls doing enjo-kosai right now apparently.

If Ms Boer-Buquicchio has been informed by people in Japan that it is still a problem, along with underage prostitution and human trafficking then she should definitely raise public awareness. But she should not use unsubstantiated facts, because it just gets in the way of fixing the actual problem.

Case in point is this article which is focusing on misreporting of facts as opposed to the problem of enjo-kosai. A problem which is nowhere near as bad as what it was fifteen to twenty years ago. But nonetheless it is a problem.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

what countermeasures are being implemented by J Gov?

Well, here's an 11-page summary that's readily available in English, if anyone could be bothered to check.

http://www.mofa.go.jp/policy/human/child/congress0811-t.pdf

It's incredible that posters act like the government is somehow complicit or unconcerned, when information like this is a Google click away. The government is aware of the problem and is taking measures. Criticizing the 13% figure is not the same as ignoring the problem. But if you want to have an opinion or whether the measures are sufficient, it helps to know what they are. It's common sense. But as the saying goes, common sense isn't common.

Credit to Papi2013, by the way, for basing his case on more than assumption and knee-jerk reaction.

And the Wiki article is poor: "Enjo-kōsai (援助交際?, shortened form enkō 援交) means "compensated dating" and is a practice that originated in Japan where older men give money and/or luxury gifts to attractive women for their companionship and possibly, for sexual favors."

No, Wiki. Women selling their company or bodies did not originate in Japan.

3 ( +8 / -5 )

We can also point to the recent automatic supposing of busty teenage girl in sexy attire as the mascot for AMA divers as a good thing as proof of the problem of sexualizing girls and selling that sex. Fortunately many locals stood up against it. Unfortunately, the reason was, forthe most part, again because they were afraid of how they would be perceived.

-1 ( +10 / -10 )

@GW I disagree. Japan has more than enough issues that it deserves to be pillared for. However, it doesn't deserve to be convicted based on shoddy work. This representative should be made to specificy her sources and judged accordingly. If not, then what is the point? Let's face it, people are quick to convict scientific researchers (like Obokata) for fraudulent manipulation of data, why not in this case?

Moreover, making correlations between this case and Japan's myriad other sins doesn't really help. The sole issue here is the report in question, and the veracity of the claims it has made (and the data used to underpin them).

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Whatever the figure is, 13% is clearly ridiculous. I don't see anywhere near that happening. Maybe in a particularly bad high school the numbers can reach that. But over all high school girls? I would guess 5% at the very most.

Short skirts and Louis Vuitton bags do not add up to enjo-kosai, whatever some people may think.

4 ( +8 / -4 )

They need to bring in Australian school uniforms here. I think the JK sex industry would die very quickly if that happened. No matter how short Aussies wear their skirts, it is still an awkward, unsexy look. Yet the Japanese school uniform is sold all over the world through mail order and in sex shops, to people who have not been brought up here in Japan - if they havent been brought up with that conditioning, why do they still find it sexy?

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Whatever the true figure is, it's certainly not zero. Perhaps Suga can tell us what he thinks the actual figure is once he's done moaning about the UN envoy? While he's at it Suga can also explain why Japan has businesses dedicated to arranging dates between high school girls and old sleazes. By allowing such businesses to operate the government is complicit in the schoolgirl sex trade.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

Why? Because Japan is more worried about its artificially setting its international reputation over solving important social problems that are not supposed to exist.

Prioritising perception over reality is very much a cultural trait here in Japan. Mind you, my ol' granddaddy said something along the lines of "It's not what you do in life that matters, it's what you get caught doing." so it's not just a Japanese thing.

That said, and unfortunately for the J-govt., that kind of BS doesn't wash overseas, and goes part way to explaining Korean and Chinese rancour.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

UN: OK, how about 11 %?

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

I get the impression from all these denials, Japan is incapable dealing with truths.

However let's look at the inconvenient truths that Japanese government that refuses to deal with.

For instance, the report by the US State Department regarding sexual trafficking of Japanese school aged girls:

Japanese nationals, particularly runaway teenage girls and children of foreign and Japanese citizens who have acquired nationality, are also subjected to sex trafficking. The phenomenon of enjo kosai, also known as “compensated dating” and variants of the “JK business” (JK stands for joshi-kosei or high school girl) continue to facilitate the prostitution of Japanese children. Sophisticated and organized prostitution networks target vulnerable Japanese women and girls—often in poverty or with mental and intellectual disabilities—in public areas such as subways, popular youth hangouts, schools, and online; some of these women and girls become trafficking victims. Japanese men continue to be a significant source of demand for child sex tourism in Southeast Asia and, to a lesser extent, Mongolia.

http://www.state.gov/j/tip/rls/tiprpt/countries/2015/243463.htm

Not to mention that Japan comes in tier 2 nation (the only developed nation in that tier), since the US State Department rates the country poor for fighting sex/human trafficking (and Japan's poor nationalistic response to the UN proves this).

http://www.state.gov/j/tip/rls/tiprpt/2014/226649.htm

1 ( +10 / -9 )

We can change the UN's result on their supposed investigation just by complaining?

1 ( +4 / -3 )

http://www.ohchr.org/en/NewsEvents/Pages/DisplayNews.aspx?NewsID=16700&LangID=E

During my visit to Japan, I received no official statistic on the scope of the “JK business” in the country. However, many of my interlocutors referred to it as a worrying trend which can easily lead to sexual exploitation of the minors involved in this lucrative business. In the press conference, I made reference to estimates I had seen in open sources to highlight a phenomenon that must be urgently tackled.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

As written by GW below, this sad, destructive harmful "business" should be viewed seriously and effective measures taken to shame (very effective deterrent in Japan) those who patronized enjo kosai. Young school girls may not understand initially the damage done to them relationally, psychologically, mentally, emotionally and physically. Looking at the sadness and insecurity of the interviewed victims, what will you feel and do if you are her father, Mr Suga?

"However most also agree that enjo kosai exists & also point out that J-society has a bit of a sick fetish sexualizing little girls & young women, the high school look being a standard target for attention & the fact that so many girls in school are quick to hike up their skirts just shows how deep this all runs.

But Japan just wants to keep it out of the foreign news as its embarrassing & it should be! But even more the govt should be doing SOMETHING but clearly they are happy with how women are treated & viewed in Japan, they DONT want change clearly.

And then they wonder why there are some many issues with people & relationships............well duh!"

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Japan: Withdraw your allegations or we won't give you any money. UN envoy: Sure

1 ( +9 / -8 )

Papi: exactly! And lest we forget who,e Japn denies the problem it still insists on the right to show hildren being gang raped in comics as a part of culture and freedom of speech.

0 ( +12 / -12 )

Even of the 13% figure is true, how does that compare to other countries all around the world? Would that be low or high? Even excluding groups like ISIS or Boko Haram in Nigeria where you don't even want to think about what they do to schoolgirls? Could she say, "Congratulations Japan for keeping exploitation of schoolgirls down to 13%". Here, that would be 5 girls in a class of 40. In my experience going to high schools here, 13% is not credible at all. And you know how high school kids like to gossip. Maybe at most a couple of schoolgirls per school here in Tokyo, in any. But really, like farmboy says, who compiles such statistics and how?

1 ( +4 / -3 )

So what does it matter if the number is 10% versus 13%?

It matters a lot if you're pulling numbers out of thin air or from vague "sources" when people can use the mistake to discredit you and your position on the issue. Her point may be valid, but it can't be that hard for an actual UN envoy on human rights to make a valid point with correct facts and eliminate the possibility people are going to scoff at the entire issue. It also matters because the rest of your comment is hysterical exaggeration. That stuff goes on, but it's not like all of Japan is experiencing some kind of orgy. Any is bad enough but getting all wild-eyed and nonsensical about it certainly doesn't help matters.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

This is an unforgivable mistake from such a high-rank international representative.... Without concrete figures and evidence, no body has the right to accuse a person not even a nation... a great nation, which has already acknowledged that there are few cases and some doubts about other behaviours unrelated to Japanese family and education values. Japan should ask UN for official sincere apology first, and immediate firing of this irresponsible representative. Secondly, the government and educational and social national organizations should come around the table and accelerate the work and task forces on properly and firmly handling these behaviours and any other behaviours.. My sincere love and respect to Japan & its great values and cultures..

-5 ( +6 / -11 )

Unfortunately, by making an unsubstantiated claim she has set back the cause. The government can claim it is exaggerated and not so much a social problem as a social anomaly.

I disagree. If I was her, that would push me to find figures or research this area and make a point that Japan has a serious issue with child prostitution. I really do hope this is the course of action she takes.

And yes, what does it matter if the figure is 7% or 13%? We all know that school girls here are sexuailzed by the media, old men... and this is an issue that Japan repeatedly ignores.

2 ( +8 / -6 )

Hongo,

Japan would be STUPID to push this, like they are stupid with so many issues relating to WWII.

Enjo kosai etc are all very real problems here that authorities basically do NOTHING to help, that's the reality.

Once again Japan is trying to sweep REAL problems under the rug rather than deal with them. Yeah sounds like the woman who did the report goofed up using the 13%, all here seem to agree on that.

However most also agree that enjo kosai exists & also point out that J-society has a bit of a sick fetish sexualizing little girls & young women, the high school look being a standard target for attention & the fact that so many girls in school are quick to hike up their skirts just shows how deep this all runs.

But Japan just wants to keep it out of the foreign news as its embarrassing & it should be! But even more the govt should be doing SOMETHING but clearly they are happy with how women are treated & viewed in Japan, they DONT want change clearly.

And then they wonder why there are some many issues with people & relationships............well duh!

4 ( +12 / -8 )

Uniform skirts typically speaking are to be worn at knee cap length, either touching the top or at the middle of the knee cap, depending upon the school. The "short" one's are for show.

To the commenters on my skirt length issue. I am not trying to go around and say that the girls are immoral by wearing skirts that have a short length, but if they are required to wear them longer for school, then why wear a shorter one for "show?" Therein lies the problem. Taking two sets of clothes to school seems to point out to me that maybe there is some merit to the 13% number. I get teenage rebellion as some suggest, but to be honest, have you seen some of the shorts that young boys are required to wear to schools? They are what in the US we would call "nutters" and I don't see why the J school uniform standards are set that way.

The problem is skeevy people. Girls should not be penalized for how they dress because society sometimes produces pervs.

I was not trying to blame the victims in my post. As I said, that type of thing doesn't do anything for me, but my point was that there are some weirdo's out there who can't control themselves, and one girl who may be totally innocent and just wants to wear her skirt high is seen by those perverts as a potential "buy" and if she reports the behavior, that should become a data point in the total numbers of these cases, if they are being reported. If a man is going to pay a teenage girl for compensated dating, which is illegal I assume, he is not likely going to ask the girl wearing the ankle length dress walking the street, but would more likely be inclined to ask one he thought that was more likely to accept his offer. That's how weirdoes work. Not blaming the victims and they way they dress at all, since I am trying to be rational about this, but a pervert is probably not.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Local Japanese media: UN admits making unsubstantiated claims against Japan (imagine the implications........).

3 ( +3 / -0 )

So what does it matter if the number is 10% versus 13%?

Isn't her point that Japan has a serious problem with child sex for hire, valid?

Is Japan denying that enjo kosai exists? What exactly is Japan's problem with the UN official's remarks? How has she hurt Japan that she has to be under attack by Japanese nationalists?

Anyone who have been in Japan for a bit will take no time noticing the signs out in the public. The disturbing anime's involving sexual violence against schoolgirls, the national obsession with schoolgirl uniform plays, the sexual porn involving schoolgirl's that's easily bought and widely read, the open prostitutions that go on everyday, on and on. You telling us all these don't exist, it's all a plot to make Japan look bad?

Yeah sure.

-1 ( +10 / -11 )

Look at the "Photo of the Day" pic on the front page of JT. You see a group of school girls in uniform. Ever notice how short the skirts are on the school girls, and how even in the cooler temperatures, it seems that they still wear the short skirts to class. If my daughter was in a J-school, I would have a word or two about the uniforms they expect them to wear.

I looked at it and I find those skirts only moderately short. I've seen them shorter. Just last month at USJ during the Halloween event there were a number of people showing a lot more leg in school uniforms. But I doubt many of them with the shortest uniform skirts are even high school students. And when they are, they're either on holiday that day or at least finished with classes because their schools more than likely have dress codes. They're "expected" to be in uniform. At most schools that means no dyed hair, no make up, no jewelry and knee-length or lower skirts. At our school uniform skirts fall at the knee or even below it.

The problem is not the skirt length or the girls expressing themselves. In some cases girls and young women wear shorts that are shorter than the shortened skirts and they're not even given a second thought. The problem is skeevy people. Girls should not be penalized for how they dress because society sometimes produces pervs. This mentality isn't far off from victim blaming; i.e., "Well, she wouldn't have been raped if she hadn't been there in the first place wearing them skimpy clothes!"

The pervs are the ones who need to be circumscribed.

I'm not really sure what uniform skirt length has to do with compensated dating, though. And a UN envoy whose job involves making statements of this type really has no excuse for having her numbers wrong. It's part of her job to help by having them right. I don't know what the actual compensated dating number is, but apparently that wasn't it so the message has been lost in the noise.

-3 ( +5 / -7 )

While not denying that the problem exists, I have to side with Japan on this one. Using data to support your arguments is one thing, but throwing around random numbers is another. Japan should go in hard on this. The UN representative should be made to clearly identify the "source" of her figures. If "open sources" means Wikipedia, she should be shown the door. Gross misrepresentations of data, whether it is in public policy or scientific research, are unexceptable.

-1 ( +7 / -8 )

We're missing the bigger picture here! Sure, the stats were unsupported, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't happen. The fact that enjo kosai is happening should be addressed nonetheless.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

She must have gotten it from the Japanese sources.

http://www.awf.or.jp/6/07-1.html

However, since these stats are pretty dated, dating back at least 15 years, we will never know how bad the situation is in Japan. That's because Japanese government refuses to look into it because it's easier to deny the problem exists and sweep the problem under the carpet.

The number may not be exactly 13%, however, there's no evidence that it's not worse than 13%. It could very well be much worse, and this is just tip of the iceberg.

The US State Department puts Japan as a second tier nation when it comes to its government trying to do something about human trafficking of women. A woeful third world record, compared to most of the OECD nations. Why? Because Japan is more worried about its artificially setting its international reputation over solving important social problems that are not supposed to exist.

10 ( +19 / -9 )

CH3CHO: "They are not required to wear short skirts. School authority requires them to wear longer skirts. But girls wear short skirts as rebellion to the authority."

And according to the law, prostitution is not allowed -- yet it exists and thrives here in even small towns in 'pink areas'. If the schools require them to wear long skirts, but they do not, why do the schools do NOTHING about it except on graduation days or other ceremonies where they will be seen being seen? But you could bet that if someone brought this to the public's attention, as this woman at the UN did, suddenly the schools would be demanding the person retract his/her comments and that schools require them to wear long skirts, and there is nothing to found the idea that they don't on, etc., instead of enforcing their own rules/laws, and because they are embarrassed about that. Oh wait -- that's kind of what you are doing!

-2 ( +10 / -12 )

@alphaape - I have heard that some girls shorten the standard uniform skirt. The uniform itself is not the problem. If some girls want to show more leg that's their own choice. The problem isn't the girls' choice the problem is the adult perverts who want underage girls. Personally I'm glad my daughter doesn't have to wear a burqa to go out in public in Japan.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

UN can breathe a little easier now...the threat of Japanese contribution being cut has been avoided. Otsukaresama deshita.

-1 ( +8 / -9 )

AlphaapeNOV. 12, 2015 - 07:46AM JST

Look at the "Photo of the Day" pic on the front page of JT. You see a group of school girls in uniform. Ever notice how short the skirts are on the school girls, and how even in the cooler temperatures,

it does show that the girls are over sexualized with what they are required to wear to school daily.

They are not required to wear short skirts. School authority requires them to wear longer skirts. But girls wear short skirts as rebellion to the authority.

10 ( +16 / -7 )

What I would like for you to do is on the way home today, look at HS kids in uniform. I bet you do not see one kid carrying any brand name bags, but rather school issued bags.

Because of school rules?

Most of those brand names you see that HS kids might have are fakes.

Maybe in some areas, but in Tokyo fakes would be social death. Too uncool for school.

-2 ( +3 / -6 )

She should apologise directly to all Japanese schoolgirls for claiming that thousands of them are little harlots.

No. Not all. But some of them of them do engage in enjo kosai either accepting money for sex or being showered with gifts. And its been going under society's nose for a while. How do you you think this (domestic) issue has finally caught the UN's attention?

3 ( +9 / -7 )

"“We regard this explanation as effectively a retraction of the comment over the 13-percent figure,”

Doesn't mean it wasn't said, and doesn't mean it isn't true. It's a shame that the government is more concerned about how it's perceived on certain problems than with the problems themselves; if they were more concerned with the latter, the former would never be a problem.

M3M3M3: "I think part of the reason that some people are convinced that the number must be higher than 13% is because they constantly read about schoolgirl sex and JK businesses in the media."

Yeah, or maybe it's because beside the ice cream section and the ATM in convenience stores there are regular men's magazines -- not even the porn, mind you -- with covers of little girls in school uniforms with ultra high skirts, or in bikinis and bending over; or maybe it's because you can see massage places, health salons, or literally adds for enjou kosai in regular business districts, not to mention at the click of a button on the internet. That's not the media, it's the everyday. Are you suggesting the media should keep quiet about it so that the problem appears less to exist?

Obviously the woman had to 'retract' her remarks because of the incessant whining of Japan and threats to pull out funding to the UN when it doesn't like something, but the woman's remarks, and Japan's usual stupidity and threats in 'dealing' with them, have accomplished the goal of putting the spotlight on ill behaviours here, and the word is out.

-4 ( +12 / -17 )

She said she had seen the figure “in open sources”.

Wow!

She is a reader of the comments page at Japan Today. Who would have imagined it?

'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

Open Resources I am pretty sure her English language aides are inspecting JT First article comments to ensure they have plenty of open resource.Where else they can collect plenty of resources?

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

In an open source: okay, so that means she has admitted that the public is mislead by the government and media.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

Mary: Most of those brand names you see that HS kids might have are fakes.

What I would like for you to do is on the way home today, look at HS kids in uniform. I bet you do not see one kid carrying any brand name bags, but rather school issued bags.

5 ( +9 / -4 )

So, what is the proportion?

1 ( +2 / -1 )

no hard evidence? is it a job? is she an adult? her accusation is invalid. making assumption too fast. 13% based on how many school? inaccurate info should kept for self reading not on the news.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

The lives of Japanese teens who are in high schools is very regulated in Japan. I heard that compensated dated was much more common in the 80s, but the kinds of opportunities for girls to date in high school that exist in Western countries simply don't exist in Japan. There are no school dances, homes are often multi-generational, and kids are often at school clubs all weekend. High school kids are regarded more as maturing children than as young adults. I would say the problem exists, but that its number couldn't be quite the high.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

I am far more concerned about out-and-out human trafficking than anything a schoolgirl does in her off hours. Let's talk about that, shall we?

7 ( +12 / -6 )

I would have a word or two about the uniforms they expect them to wear.

You would have a word, and your option would be to either accept it or take your daughter to another school. The girls that wear their skirts that short often times have two skirts with them, one for school and one for outside of school.

Uniform skirts typically speaking are to be worn at knee cap length, either touching the top or at the middle of the knee cap, depending upon the school. The "short" one's are for show.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

I'm guessing she read the number somewhere, but then when called on it she probably reviewed the source and found it wasn't good enough to cite, and so rightfully retracted it.

12 ( +14 / -2 )

She did what she could. This issue continues to be mentioned in the Japan section of the US State Department Human Rights report, the 2014 report stating "...the continued practice of enjo kosai (compensated dating) and the existence of websites for online dating, social networking, and “delivery health” (a euphemism for call-girl or escort services) facilitated child prostitution." International pressure needs to be maintained and the UN's special envoy on the sale of children would be delinquent if she did not continue to mention it in a forceful way.

0 ( +7 / -7 )

And one more question:

how much pressure did the Japanese Government use again (i.e. threaten not to give any money or providing support to UN activities)?

I put a link in the previous article concerning this topic and it clearly states that it was less than 10%. (Wikipedia) Now, if anyone has any doubts about this "source", you can question all the information on that site. Again, even if it is "only" 10% .... it is way too much.

-2 ( +7 / -9 )

@Farmboy - "The special enjoy must have divine knowledge or something"

She sure does!!! :-)

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

I think part of the reason that some people are convinced that the number must be higher than 13% is because they constantly read about schoolgirl sex and JK businesses in the media. There has always been hysteria when it comes to teens having sex. Japanese tabloids, men's magazines, websites and western media like CNN run these scandalous stories because they know people are titillated by reading about promiscuous schoolgirls and so it sells. It's the same in the US, remember the hysteria about 'rainbow parties'?

11 ( +14 / -4 )

Good cause, but it does not justify using bad and misleading data.

14 ( +15 / -1 )

Concerns over the sexualisation of young girls have been frequently expressed by Japanese media, women’s groups and some politicians, but the precise extent of abuses or illicit activities has proven difficult to measure.

Look at the "Photo of the Day" pic on the front page of JT. You see a group of school girls in uniform. Ever notice how short the skirts are on the school girls, and how even in the cooler temperatures, it seems that they still wear the short skirts to class. If my daughter was in a J-school, I would have a word or two about the uniforms they expect them to wear.

Not trying to be a prude or coming from the angle that you find in most Islamic countries where women should be fully covered to cover their "shame" as they somewhat believe, and I can certainly control myself around a school girl in uniform since I am not interested in that; but it does show that the girls are over sexualized with what they are required to wear to school daily.

Wonder what they did to this lady to get her to change her story. Even if it were from open sources, the fact of the matter is that the numbers are out there. They may not be at 13%, but there is a number and it seems that the J-gov doesn't want that number to be reported.

-8 ( +9 / -17 )

But really, how would anybody even begin to estimate figures on this? Self-reporting? Drone cameras? Illegal monitoring of schoolgirls' bank accounts? The special enjoy must have divine knowledge or something.

12 ( +14 / -3 )

She probably read it on Wikipedia, or on a Facebook meme. Or on Japan today.

4 ( +12 / -9 )

That just it. She wasn't sure of the source. Because the figure is bogus. Backing down on a bogus claim is hardly being a lapdog.

You are basing your comments on one isolated incident so for that I can understand your comment. However, looking at the bigger picture and other recent incidents, Japan talking about reducing or stopping funding for the UN, this woman, for whatever reason, was pressured into retracting her statement with an ambiguous reply.

If this was only one thing, I would have applauded her retraction, but in light of the other incidents, it sounds to me like the UN is getting a bit antsy about how to deal with Japan.

-3 ( +8 / -11 )

“The letter said after further reviews that there was no official and recent data to support the 13% figure,” Chief Cabinet Secretary Yoshihide Suga told reporters.

What official data is there on the issue, then? How exactly is this problem quantified, and what countermeasures are being implemented by J Gov?

4 ( +14 / -10 )

@garymalmgren - "She is a reader of the comments page at Japan Today. Who would have imagined it?"

She also mentioned the INSTITUTIONALIZED CHILD ABUSE in Japan, so who knows where she's getting all this ridiculous stuff from!! :-(

0 ( +0 / -0 )

One would think the UN Human Rights Council would be concerned with greater issues.. http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/10/americas/freedom-project-mexico-trafficking-survivor/index.html

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Well, if she was so sure of the "source" she should have stood her ground! Is the UN now becoming the lapdog of Japan when it comes to issues that put Japan in a bad spotlight?

That just it. She wasn't sure of the source. Because the figure is bogus. Backing down on a bogus claim is hardly being a lapdog.

15 ( +25 / -11 )

This embarrassing climb down was predictable since she clearly pulled her stats out of thin air. She should apologise directly to all Japanese schoolgirls for claiming that thousands of them are little harlots.

6 ( +23 / -18 )

She said she had seen the figure “in open sources”.

let's stick to 'open sources' figure until govt provides more accurate account.

2 ( +16 / -12 )

She said she had seen the figure “in open sources”.

Wow!

She is a reader of the comments page at Japan Today. Who would have imagined it?

33 ( +39 / -6 )

I would put the figure much higher than 13%. These girls all have Louis Vuitton bags any many other designer goods. How many dads these days have got that kind of money to splash out like that?

-20 ( +20 / -39 )

Unfortunately, by making an unsubstantiated claim she has set back the cause. The government can claim it is exaggerated and not so much a social problem as a social anomaly.

26 ( +31 / -5 )

She said she had seen the figure “in open sources”.

Well, if she was so sure of the "source" she should have stood her ground! Is the UN now becoming the lapdog of Japan when it comes to issues that put Japan in a bad spotlight?

-19 ( +19 / -36 )

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