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Japan scrambles jets against Chinese military planes

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Before 1972 none of those Chinese politicians claimed Senkaku shoto as their own. On the contrary, those islands in their own maps point that location as part of Japanese territory.

13 ( +18 / -5 )

Yes it is clearly a modern effort by China to encroach on ALL of its neighbors hoping at least some of these efforts will pay off. Japan is the strongest of the neighbors to stand up for its own territory so China has found its hijacking policy is not going to work. they just have not realized it yet. I guess it takes time for the Paper tiger to realize it's roar is all it has going for it, there is no substance for their efforts.

7 ( +11 / -4 )

Mitsuo MatsuyamaMAR. 10, 2014 - 07:34AM JST Before 1972 none of those Chinese politicians claimed Senkaku shoto as their own. On the contrary, those islands in their own maps point that location as part of Japanese territory.

It's not HISTORY what China is after for, it's the OIL. GREED IS GOOD!

Chinese government ships and planes have been seen off the disputed islands numerous times since Japan nationalised them in September 2012, sometimes within the 12 nautical-mile territorial zone.

Isn't this frightening? China is initiating a war!

1 ( +6 / -5 )

Who's trying to start a war?

China?

I don't think so.

Who started this Senkaku thing?

Ishihara, right?

Who's building up its military all around China?

The U.S.A.

-19 ( +10 / -29 )

Had they've done that to Russia or US, it could have been war. But the Japanese are really level headed. China becoming world's no.2 is quite superficial. No matter what, they want to hold on to it knowing they've got a lot of their compatriots living here even with Jcitizenship but loyalty is to China. Quite alarming indeed! They've been doing it to my own native country too. But my native country is a 3rd world. Poor us! And yes, it's greed. They say to be rich is glory.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

China's claim to the Senkaku continental shelf runs counter to international law. In the late 1960's the United Nations Economic Commission for Asia and the Far East (ECAFE) came up with a report which indicated that there may be huge untapped oil resources under the East China Sea in the vicinity of the Senkakus.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

When will they ever learn, when will they ever learn?

1 ( +4 / -3 )

"“They flow above public seas, and there was no violation of our airspace,” he said, declining to release more details about the incident."

If this is the case, then what's the fuss about?

It seems that the nationalists in Japan have to find a straw man to beat up in order to boost their fragile egos every chance they may get, otherwise they become restless. :)

Japan is now at the cross-road, devoting national energy on peace with its neighbors would be a better and wiser choice than fighting a war in which Japan has more to lose than gain.

-7 ( +4 / -11 )

knowing they've got a lot of their compatriots living here even with Jcitizenship but loyalty is to China.

You nailed it. And this is a problem for every country around the world.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

three Chinese military planes that flew near Japanese airspace, defense officials said.

China and Japan are near by neighbours like US and Canada. US expanded ADIZ as very large size. It has been overlapped with Canada air space. Therefore Canada planes have to fly very near US air space. US has never shot down Canada military plane so far.

It is also true that Japan has never shot down the PRC military plane which flew near Japan ADIZ so far. Japan is smaller than Montana state. However Japan ADIZ is five times larger than Montana. If PRC plane fly near the Japan air space, it is not the fault of their planes. It is the fault of Japan which has expanded unreasonable large Air zone.

-13 ( +1 / -14 )

Communist China is flying high as a kite. They even think they own the islands in the Philippines and the Pradesh mountains in India.

What a clusterfudge when you have a dragon being run full of biscuits.

4 ( +8 / -4 )

China and Japan are near by neighbours like US and Canada.

Good Lord, did you just attempt to draw a comparison between two nations who have been fast friends for 200 years, and two nations who have been at each others throats for 1000 years?

If the communists could be trusted (and please point to any nation on Earth who trusts them, if you can) nobody would have a problem with PRC registered planes, ships etc sailing along the boundaries of Japanese territory.

6 ( +9 / -2 )

Japan should do what China did and close off the air space between all of her islands declaring them annexed baring China from using them.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

If the communists could be trusted

What communists? Neither Japan nor China is communist.

-5 ( +5 / -10 )

What communists? Neither Japan nor China is communist.

Yet in another thread you are right now claiming to be the sort of person who is "not swayed by that sort of argument".

Are you a communist or something? Because that's the only sort of person who would repeatedly post that PRC "isn't communist" as you have done dozens of times on this board.

The PRC is controlled by the communist party (so named by themselves) right down to the village level. End of story. Your hair-splitting here is like a gentle and kind Muslim person insisting that terrorists like Bin Laden etc "aren't Muslim".

The word is what the word is.

0 ( +6 / -6 )

Readers, please stop bickering.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

“Japan scrambles jets against Chinese military planes” it sounds like Japan triumphantly shot down invading aircraft and defended Japan integrity of sovereignty. But in reality, Chinese military planes were en route to test their capability to bomb Hawaii. ( the US are aware of Chinese motives and actions fully)

Don’t get me wrong, I am a fan of Japan, that’s why I came to Japan to work, but I can’t stand J-nationalists’ hatred-propelled ignorance and denial of the fact – The US is not interested in the territorial dispute between Japan and China, and no desire to be dragged into the trap, period. (If you want to a war, you are on your own.)

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

japan should just build a base on the senkakus cause the u.s. will do nothing if china does it first.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

@hidingout I would like to point out that North Korea trusts China, but since their leader is a crackpot, I suppose your point is still quite valid.

It doesn't surprise me at all that China continues to fly military aircraft close to Japanese territory once again. I commend the JASDF for responding quickly and appropriately. There are some pro-PRC people who seem to be confused, thinking that flying over international waters is no problem. It isn't, but if China was doing simply that, there wouldn't be any need for this article. This isn't about civilian or commercial aircraft flying over international waters. This is about military aircraft flying very close to Japan's airspace and over disputed Japanese islands. A provocative action in this cat and mouse game that China has initiated.

@bertiewooster: Ishihara did not start this dispute. Up until natural resources were found near the Senkaku islands, even China acknowledged that they were Japanese territory. Once the report came out indicating that there could be a pocket of valuable resources in the vicinity of the islands, then, and only then did China kick up a fuss and start making outrageous claims. So no, Ishihara did not start the Senkaku debate, China did.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

">Who's trying to start a war?

China?

You answered your own question. Yes, China.

8 ( +11 / -3 )

Saying that china is aggressive will only make china even more aggressive by provoking it.

Saying a wolf is a poodle will not stop the wolf from attacking you. I am all for talk between Japan and China. But, with China, caution is always the word of the day.

10 ( +10 / -0 )

hidingou tMAR. 10, 2014 - 09:47AM JST

If the communists could be trusted (and please point to any nation on Earth who trusts them, if you can) nobody would have a problem with PRC registered planes, ships etc sailing along the boundaries of Japanese territory.

US has trusted Cuba which is the communist nation. If you come and visit Florida, majority of population are Latinos. Some even have no ID. Some have little red books. Some worship the communist idols. However Obama is willing to offer them residency, free food vouchers and discounted health care.

Back to the Air! PRC, Taiwan and Japanese ships have been frequent visiting the overlapping sea lane and air route. .It has been many decades now. Canada has never been happy about US taking too much air space. It is also true for PRC and Japan for making tolerate with each other. If Japan or US is not happy, they have to shoot down one of the plane near the air space. However it will be unlikely during your life time.

They flow above public seas, and there was no violation of our airspace,” he said, declining to release more details about the incident.

Pro J posters can whinge anything they like. However it will not change the reality. Japan is the insecure landlord which can not shut the door of gate. No one own the sky except God. Japan started expand the ADIZ despite protest from Taiwan and ROK. J fighter jets have been harassing Taiwan commercial Airlines for sometimes. Taiwan has not make the big deal about it. Japan has to pay back the Karma which has badly done to Taiwan.

Because that's the only sort of person who would repeatedly post that PRC "isn't communist" as you have done dozens of times on this board.

The definition of communist has commune system which is sharing food, housing and land. In PRC, there is no free lunch and government help for social support like Obama care. PRC is ruled by communists in theory. Reality is they are semi capitalist which is promoting the free enterprise with no hand outs.

In US there are free food vouchers for unemployed people. It is more likely iron rice bowl of Mao era of PRC. US is the capitalist in name only. It has become the old communist nation of PRC.

-12 ( +0 / -12 )

US has trusted Cuba which is the communist nation.

Trusted? I don't think so. Any anyway, Cuba is not PRC so the point is irrelevant. PRC is hated in a special way by most of the freedom loving world.

Canada has never been happy about US taking too much air space.

First I've heard of it. Anyway, from what I know of Canada they are a peaceful country that enjoys a very good relationship with the USA. There are probably several things that both nations are not "be happy" about, but they would never threaten each other with military action.

However Obama is willing to offer them residency, free food vouchers and discounted health care. There is no free lunch and government help for social support like Obama care.

Not sure what your point is here. Apparently only certain posters have to "stick to the topic". If you are trying to suggest that Obama has communist tendencies then you are preaching to the choir.

I would like to point out that North Korea trusts China, but since their leader is a crackpot, I suppose your point is still quite valid.

I don't think that is even true. The DPRK is in a position of servitude to PRC. That's a long way from actually trusting them.

10 ( +10 / -0 )

This has happened literally hundreds of times since the tensions over the islands were ratcheted up by Ishihara in 2012. It is almost on a daily basis. So why do the media or the SDF choose to report it so arbitrarily on some days and not others? Is it because it won't sell if the public gets to desensitized to it? Or does the timing fit into some other sort of agenda?

-8 ( +0 / -8 )

PRC is hated in a special way by most of the freedom loving world.

I guess you may come from another planet. Freedom loving world can not resist the market power of PRC. US has given PRC as most favored nation (PNTR). Many in businessmen in Florida and Texas wanted to kiss the boots of PRC regime. Freedom loving nations such as Canada and Australia can not stop selling their gas and minerals to PRC. EU is chasing PRC capital injection for solving their debt crisis.

First I've heard of it. Anyway, from what I know of Canada they are a peaceful country that enjoys a very good relationship with the USA.

Good relationship is irrelevant with Air safety issue. If one nation is taking too much air space, other nation planes have to fly in the congested air route. It is not welcoming and pleasant issue for Canada. For Japan cases, Taiwan and ROK have been left with narrow air route due to large expansion. Japan has no concern about other convenience. It can not cry fool when it has already made other life harder.

Apparently only certain posters have to "stick to the topic". If you are trying to suggest that Obama has communist tendencies then you are preaching to the choir.

This topic is about Air route and congested Air space between Japan and PRC. It is not about the topic of anti communist and PRC is the cruel Saturn of the universe. Above poster has been promoting the personal hatred instead of focusing on topic.

If you are trying to suggest that Obama has communist tendencies then you are preaching to the choir.

Obama was raised in Indonesia during his youth. Although he is not a communist by himself, he is a fan of communal housing, subsided health care and free lunch. He has good heart as Santa Clause. However it will cost the unsustainable mortgage for new generations. The choir has become unpreachable.

The DPRK is in a position of servitude to PRC. That's a long way from actually trusting them.

DPRK leader murdered his own uncle. It is more barbaric. Whether you have trust on PRC or not, PRC has been the largest recipients of foreign investment for many decades. If no one trust PRC, why have they risked billions of dollar for doing business in untrustworthy nation?

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

Just the usual Communist China tactic of testing Japan's resolve in defending it's territory.

If Japan wouldn't of scrambled those fighters Communist China would have gone into Japan's airspace.

ZenpunMar. 10, 2014 - 09:34AM JST China and Japan are near by neighbours like US and Canada. US expanded ADIZ as very large size. It has been overlapped with Canada air space. Therefore Canada planes have to fly very near US air space. US has never shot down Canada military plane so far.

You just won the "silliest post of the day" award! Comparing the US and Canada's relationship to that of Communist China and (place any name here) and you would be way off.

Communist China has been encroaching on all it's neighbors territories for as long as I can remember. The way they act is more like the way the Soviet Union treated it's neighbors. Rude, menacing and warlike.

Tell your handlers that you need better propaganda than the stuff you have right now.

0 ( +6 / -6 )

slumdog,

I am all for talk between Japan and China. But, with China, caution is always the word of the day.

You know, I wouldn't mind betting that what Chinese politicians are saying to each other is:

"With Japan, caution is always the word of the day."

-8 ( +1 / -9 )

Does Japan has ownership of it? I doubt it since anyone can go there whenever they want to!

They have ownership both legally and physically. That ownership is contested, but the key point is that it is contested. Japan still has the ownership regardless.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Freedom loving world can not resist the market power of PRC.

Freedom loving world wants to sell stuff in PRC. Sadly for them there are still most of the citizens living on > $5/day. I suspect that will not change much in the next twenty years. The people in PRC who actually have money to spend come to Japan to buy their stuff.

I will add - shame on the freedom loving world for pretending there has not been a great cost in human misery to outsourcing all their manufacturing to PRC. The Western nations have created a monster who cares nothing for human rights.

Beyond that I don't know what to tell you. Freedom loving countries are mostly run by greedy corporate blood suckers who would sell their grandmothers for a fifty point bump in the stock market and a solid quarterly earnings report. Its certainly not something I condone or am proud of.

Good relationship is irrelevant with Air safety issue.

We aren't talking about "safety" though are we? I'm not an expert on such things, but I suspect you are probably right that Japan has been greedy in assuming large swaths of airspace for their own use. Interesting that the PRC makes no attempt to discuss the issue but rather inflames things further by declaring "all your airspace is belong to us".

It is not about the topic of anti communist and PRC is the cruel Saturn of the universe. Above poster has been promoting the personal hatred instead of focusing on topic.

Says the guy talking about Obama and Cuba. How about if we leave those matters to the mods? My personal dislike of PRC is as irrelevant as the hatred most vocal posters here hold for Japan. And Saturn? wtf are you talking about?

The choir has become unpreachable.

Sorry, I shouldn't use such phrases on a site where many non-native English speakers post. I was trying to say that I agree with you. Obama is very much a closet communist. Nothing at all like Santa Claus.

If no one trust PRC, why have they risked billions of dollar for doing business in untrustworthy nation?

There are hundreds of reasons having nothing to do with trust. But here have a look at the two most obvious reasons; one, the Western countries like money. And two, if the PRC steals the American (or other) investments they will just print more money to replace what they lost thereby watering down any debt holdings the PRC may have. In the meantime they get fat corporate profits and PRC gets all the bad press about slave labor, shoddy manufacturing etc. Its a win win for the Western countries.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

StrangerlandMar. 10, 2014 - They have ownership both legally and physically.

But all over the world nobody recognize it, even the US, japan's closest boss, didn't agree that JP has ownership.

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

even the US, japan's closest boss, didn't agree that JP has ownership.

Could you give a source for that assumption? It is my impression that the opposite is true.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

For "Mitsuo Matsuyama".

Before 1972 none of those Chinese politicians claimed Senkaku shoto as their own. On the contrary, those islands in their own maps point that location as part of Japanese territory.

Could you please tell me where I can find these documents ?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

milanese: Regarding China's lack of any claims of sovereignty prior to the 1970s, I'd say 1968 would be a better start. Here are some relevant quotes for you:

"The Senkaku Islands issue was not raised UNTIL the Economic Commission for Asia and the Far East of the United Nations Economic and Social Council suggested the possible existence of large hydrocarbon deposit in the waters off the Senkaku Islands. ... This development prompted vehement statements and counter-statements among the claimants." (emphasis added) from Lee, Seokwoo. Territorial Disputes among Japan, China and Taiwan concerning the Senkaku Islands (Boundary & Territory Briefing Vol.3 No.7). IBRU. p. 6.

"The islands had temporarily come under American control after the Second World War, but the sovereignty over the islands, was handed over to Japan in 1972 with the reversion of Okinawa. However, the PRC and Taiwan governments both made a territorial claim to the Senkaku Islands, soon AFTER the United Nation Economic Commission issued in 1969 a report suggesting considerable reserve of submarine oil and gas resources around the islands." (emphasis added) from Takamine, Tsukasa (2012). Japan's Development Aid to China, Volume 200: The Long-running Foreign Policy of Engagement. Routledge. p. 129.

"The dispute surfaced with the publication of a seismic survey report under the auspices of the UN Economic Commission for Asia and the Far East (ECSFE) in 1968, which mentioned the possibility of huge oil and gas reserves in the area; this was confirmed by a Japanese report in 1969. Greg Austin mentions that Beijing STARTED its claim to the Senkaku Islands FOR THE FIRST TIME in 1970, after the Japanese government protested to the government in Taiwan about its allocation of oil concessions in the East China Sea, including the area of the Senkaku Islands." (emphasis added) from Drifte, Reinhard (2012). Japan's Security Relations with China Since 1989: From Balancing to Bandwagoning?. Routledge. p. 49.

As for slumdog, you are partially correct. While "the United States Department of State has stated that it does not take an official position on who owns the islands", top US government officials, however, have declared in 2004, 2010, and September 2012, that as Japan maintains effective administrative control on the islands, the islands fall under the 1960 Treaty of Mutual Cooperation and Security between the United States and Japan which requires the US to assist Japan in defending the islands if anyone, including China, attacks or attempts to occupy or control them. You can find the latest declaration of the US's intent to defend the Senkakus from any encroachment from non-Japanese forces at: Paul, Eckert (20 September 2012). "Treaty With Japan Covers Islets In China Spat: U.S. Official" http://www.webcitation.org/6AwAp9Yaz

2 ( +2 / -0 )

slumdogMar. 10, 2014 - Could you give a source for that assumption? It is my impression that the opposite is true.

You can find news about it even Japantoday news issued something regardingly many times. Pls simply google" the U.S. claims it does not take sides on who rightfully owns the Diaoyu/Senkakuislets..." and tou'll find tons of sources.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

yosun,

I took your advice and googled it. The first hit is a bit old (2 years old), but I haven't seen anything changed since then.

WASHINGTON--The United States has again sent a clear message to China not to mess with Japan on the Senkaku Islands issue. “The United States opposes any unilateral or coercive action that seeks to undermine Japan’s administrative control,” U.S. Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel told his Japanese counterpart, Itsunori Onodera, at the press conference here April 29 on the row over the uninhabited islands in the East China Sea.

https://ajw.asahi.com/article/behind_news/politics/AJ201304300129

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Seriously, folks take a look at how many times a year those planes are scrambled. My question is honest curiosity and not an attempt at point scoring.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Here is the thing: the Chinese boomers and surveillance aircraft were flying through public space (a gray zone), Japan jets scrambles had little effects on them in terms of deterrence or changing their operations. They came and went as usual in the same route.

Maybe, Japan jets did not waste jet fuel considering good exercises to keep vigilant, but to get hype on those routine thing is absolutely unnecessary.

The inconvenient truth behind this report is that Japan is losing air supremacy. It’s urgent that Japan needs to find a way (changing constitution if it must) to repond.

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

@slumdog: It's your freedom to keep selectively choose what you want to read and actually I understand none of us can persuade each other for what we believe in, I don't mind and just let it be and hopefully no chaos would occur for this issue.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

@EthanWilber: Losing air supremacy? The JASDF is outfitted with Mitsubishi F-15J aircraft. Those are Air Supremecy fighter jets. Far superior to anything the Chinese air force possesses. The best they have is the Sukhoi Su30, an outdated jet in comparison. Not to mention that the JASDF personnel are vastly more well trained and devoted. Japan has air supremacy, and it hasn't even received F35s yet. Additionally, you invalidated your own point about the aircraft flying through international waters, by acknowledging the presence of bombers. Why does China need to fly bombers in international waters? More specifically: why does China need to fly bombers in international waters, close to Japanese airspace, over disputed Japanese territory? The answer is simple: Intimidation, and the testing of Japan's responses. Russia did something similar with Britain when Putin came to power, except that in that case, there was no territorial dispute in progress. Japan doesn't really need to change anything. They scrambled jets (report doesn't specify, but I would imagine they were the aforementioned F-15Js) and ensured that China did not attempt an encroachment. China will test Japan's responses again and again. As long as Japan responds the same way as it did here, nothing more will come of China's provocative flights.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Fox Cloud Lelean, you are right that the Chinese regime flew bombers surveillance aircraft adjacent to the Japanese air space indeed is part of its intimidation strategy against Japan. But my points are twofold: first, Chinese military exercises like this one were targeted at the US as a way to push its South China Sea agenda(allow me to spare the details). Secondly, Japan scrambles jets against Chinese military planes have little or no impact on their aggressive behavior. Therefore, there is no need to be fuss about it.

As for Japan’s air supremacy (both numbers and capability), sadly it’s a goner already at this juncture. But the US is working on the plan to help Japan beef up its capability in order to maintain the equilibrium in the region. (F35 is on the deck for Japan)

Granted, F15 and its later variation are one of most powerful fighter designs of all time, but the fact is, F15 starts showing age and limitation in current fast-pace arm race in air supremacy.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

That is one fearsome looking plane.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

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