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Japan to develop app detecting forged residence cards for foreigners

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Perhaps making cards that can't be forged and a creating a digital registry would be more appropriate. You know, like the rest of the 'modern' world.

7 ( +16 / -9 )

The envisaged app would allow a residence card's IC chip to be read just by holding a smartphone over the card. 

Who can be allowed to use this app? Under what condition foreigners in Japan should hand over their card in order to be scanned? This more than just a technology feature there's should be a good policy behind it.

17 ( +19 / -2 )

Open door to identity thief if the app gets in the wrong hands??

15 ( +17 / -2 )

I’m Japanese, but seeing that so much fuss and expense was made over upgrading all these ID cards, issuing new ones with holograms, etc...

Those sure went obsolete fast! It would be nice if the Minister of Cyber Security and his buddies knew how to use a computer.

22 ( +23 / -1 )

Use PKI for any govt ID and there isn't any way to forge it. Math doesn't break, though implementations of the math can.

The govt runs the servers and when provided with the ID card number and public key, there's only 1 thing unlocked, by the govt owning the private key. What ever is on the card would be available. That might be the data or an image or 5 images or the data and 2 images. Perhaps an image of the card, photo of the person, and a 2D QR code.

2 inputs - ID number and pubic key.

1 output, assuming the public key can be used to unlock the data. A bogus public key would fail to unlock anything. The public key can be shared, it isn't a secret.

GPG has worked this way for decades. It is proven technology.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I have a feeling that very soon facial recognition is going to be used to instantly identify overstayers by putting everyone in the system and identifying us all instantly. cops will be able to know everything about you just by scanning your face. That's my prediction.

10 ( +12 / -2 )

Is the card physical security features all defeated?

It makes more sense to educate people how to identify the features.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

i detest the abbreviation for application get off your butt and pronounce the word properly

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

This article's title sounds unnatural.  Brevity at the expense of good grammar!

0 ( +1 / -1 )

I can imagine hotels and other places that illegally demand people 'who don't look Japanese' show proof of identity will start using this too. While it's actually better than them copying it, which is a huge risk, it's still demeaning and racist.

I hope the app also includes references to the relevant laws that permit its use for who can and can't use it. I also think there should be some controls on who can download or use it because people could easily steal the data and make fake cards with it

7 ( +9 / -2 )

@Matt

Brevity at the expense of good grammar!

That, Sir, is the very essence of a headline....

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Who can be allowed to use this app? Under what condition foreigners in Japan should hand over their card in order to be scanned? This more than just a technology feature there's should be a good policy behind it.

That's what I'm wondering. It sounds like they already have a chip that can be read, but want it to be read easily by any joe schmo with an app..

4 ( +5 / -1 )

The government earmarked some 130 million yen in its extra budget for the current fiscal year for development costs. ..The agency has already made public the specifications for devices to read data on the cards' IC chips, but few companies have introduced scanning devices due to the difficulty of developing them on their own.

Just don't outsource this to non-Japanese companies or Japanese companies that have ties to foreign countries that are well known for cyber-hacking, stealing and forgery.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

NO Chinese tech companies!

7 ( +7 / -0 )

Sounds like a good idea.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

More extreme measures on the foreigners...

2 ( +5 / -3 )

More extreme measures on the foreigners

Not ordinary foreigners. Illegal foreigners. There's a difference. If foreigners feel that these are "extreme measures", than they should do more for Japan by whistleblowing those people that they already know are here illegally.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

There will be some official reaction to all foreigners over the Ghosn case. Venting.

The purpose of the new resident card over the previous alien card was to have an easy accessible centralised computer system based in Tokyo over the local alien cards.

Companies calling the Tokyo immigration could check the legal ID of a foreigner.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Silly.  This is not a major issue.  and why an "app"?  Can I get it on the App Store?  and go around bothering foreigners?  How about an "app" to stop accused folks on bail skipping the country?

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

WobotToday  10:24 am JST

I can imagine hotels and other places that illegally demand people 'who don't look Japanese' show proof of identity will start using this too.

There is nothing ”illegal" about demanding an ID when allowing someone to use private property. The hotel is just using usual precaution to protect its own property. Put yourself in their shoes. Do you let someone use your house without checking his or her ID, because you think checking an ID is illegal? Of course, the owner has to decide with whom he should be more cautious and less cautious, just because the consequence falls on the owner.

-10 ( +4 / -14 )

You are not required by law to present your passport/other ID if you can provide a Japanese address which also applies to nationals. It's against the hotel law to request it.

11 ( +12 / -1 )

You are only required to present your resident card to

Police and immigration.

Local officials at the ward or city office.

Employers when applying for a job.
13 ( +13 / -0 )

Hotel Business Act

第五条 営業者は、左の各号の一に該当する場合を除いては、宿泊を拒んではならない。

Article 5 A hotelier must not deny a person lodging except in a case falling under one of the following items:

一 宿泊しようとする者が伝染性の疾病にかかつていると明らかに認められるとき。

(i) it is evident that the person seeking lodging has an infectious disease;

二 宿泊しようとする者がとばく、その他の違法行為又は風紀を乱す行為をする虞があると認められるとき。

(ii) it appears likely that the person seeking lodging would gamble or engage in other unlawful activities, or would take part in activities injurious to public morals;

三 宿泊施設に余裕がないときその他都道府県が条例で定める事由があるとき。

(iii) a hotelier is not in a position to accommodate the person in its lodging facilities, or there are other grounds that the prefecture prescribes by ordinance.

第六条 営業者は、厚生労働省令で定めるところにより旅館業の施設その他の厚生労働省令で定める場所に宿泊者名簿を備え、これに宿泊者の氏名、住所、職業その他の厚生労働省令で定める事項を記載し、都道府県知事の要求があつたときは、これを提出しなければならない。

Article 6 (1) Pursuant to Order of the Ministry of Health, Labour and Welfare, a hotelier must keep a register of lodgers in the hotel business facilities or in any other place that Order of the Ministry of Health, Labour and Welfare prescribes, giving the names, addresses, and occupations of the lodgers and other information that Order of the Ministry of Health, Labour and Welfare prescribes, and must submit this register if required to do so by the prefectural governor.

2 宿泊者は、営業者から請求があつたときは、前項に規定する事項を告げなければならない。

(2) A lodger must give the information prescribed in the preceding paragraph if requested to do so by a hotelier.

10 ( +10 / -0 )

Who says in English that something goes up 1.6 fold? Does it mean 160%? Or 60%? The total number of resident foreigners climbed from around 2 to almost 3 million. How many fold is that? It stands to reason that the absolute number of offences would have increased commensurate with the increasing population of foreign residents. More unwarranted panic methinks.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

zichi, you are only citing one part of the law.

Here is more relevant part.

https://www.pref.fukushima.lg.jp/uploaded/attachment/98160.pdf

The regulation issued by the Ministry of Labor Health and Welfare asks hoteliers to rigorously check IDs and if a guest refuses to show an ID, hoteliers are required to call the police immediately.

-12 ( +0 / -12 )

Hahaha.... They should call the app "Ghosn's Ghost", as I'm sure it won't secure anything or work with a darn. And, of course, they'll only check the data once every few months and then act swiftly.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

CH3CHO: Wrong. Regardless of the fact that zichi may only be citing part of the law instead of pages upon pages, he is citing the one that matters -- that says hoteliers may demand a Japanese address, but cannot lawfully demand to see a foreign registration card or passport, even if a Japanese national. He cites the parts that relates to, even though he does not cite the entire law. Get your facts straight, bud.

7 ( +9 / -2 )

CH3CHO

I cited the part of the law that matters. No law requires a person with a Japanese address to show their resident card or passport. No Japanese would be asked to provide ID. In more than 25 years of living here I have stayed in many types of hotels and other types of accommodations like ryokans, once I gave my address I was never asked for my ID.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

CH3CHO

The regulation issued by the Ministry of Labor Health and Welfare asks hoteliers to rigorously check IDs and if a guest refuses to show an ID, hoteliers are required to call the police immediately.

Question: so every time you have stayed at a hotel or other type o accommodation you have been required to produce your ID?

2 ( +3 / -1 )

I have never, ever, ever, been asked to show any kind of ID, passport, residence card, alien registration, anything, when staying anywhere in Japan.

Invalid CSRF

7 ( +7 / -0 )

To be clear, regardless of your nationality, if you have an address in Japan, you don't need to produce your ID.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

An application of no use since no ever chip forging to this date ?

Money to Abe's buddies ?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Whoever dreamed up this idea did not read Japanese law. Only the police and immigration can ask you to see your gaijin card. No one else has the authority to do spot random checks of anyone at any time.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

@CH3CHO: That law is for tourists only, I was asked to show ID, I said I lived in Japan (in Japanese) and there was no more questions. The laws you are quoting are for Japanese nationals, there are additional immigration laws for foreigners.

@zichi: Asked many times by police, even searched me and my bike. They thought I was dealing or something... happened a few times all over Tokyo (but all at night), I kind of like the fact I know I have not done anything wrong yet they think I:m a crook.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

The envisaged app would allow a residence card's IC chip to be read just by holding a smartphone over the card.

Please no. But just in case they do it, I will disable the IC chip in my card.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

I have never, ever, ever, been asked to show any kind of ID, passport, residence card, alien registration, anything, when staying anywhere in Japan.

I have, by the police, who can legally do this and twice in hotels, one in Nagoya and another in Matsuyama. I was told by the hotels they needed to see my passport (not my ARC or zairyu) which of course I didn't have. In both cases I refused and the hotels said I couldn't stay there unless I did. I was with my husband on both occasions and in Matsuyama my MIL was with us too, they weren't asked to prove who they were. My MIL coated off the manager in Matsuyama and he backed off. We went to another hotel in Nagoya.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

My reply when police randomly ask me for ID is to show them my Maryland license. They just say thanks and walk away.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

zichiJan. 8 05:14 pm JST

Question: so every time you have stayed at a hotel or other type o accommodation you have been required to produce your ID?

cleoJan. 8 05:17 pm JST

I have never, ever, ever, been asked to show any kind of ID, passport, residence card, alien registration, anything, when staying anywhere in Japan.

Read the memorandum issued by Ministry of Labor, Health and Welfare. It points out that there are hotels that do loose ID checks and it demands rigorous ID checks. It seems you stayed at some of those lazy hotels, but that does not prove anything.

The question was whether it is 'illegal' to demand an ID. Zichi, you showed that "refusing accommodation" is illegal. OK. So?

Demanding an ID is one thing. Refusing accommodation is another. Proving that the latter is illegal does not make the former any more illegal. If you want to prove that the former is illegal, find a law that directly says that demanding an ID is illegal. This is where the weakness of your argument is.

Hotels can demand an ID in a way that is not evaluated as "refusing accommodation" in legal sense. Such as by calling the police as the Ministry's memo says, or by letting the guest wait in the lobby till he shows an ID.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

@kyushubill - I have not been asked for ID in over 20 years but if I am asked again I am going to give that a try....I like it....

I use business hotels all around Japan on almost on a weekly basis. When I am asked for ID I tell them I live in Japan and write the Japanese address. In some cases they do not ask and just ask me to fill in the form and when they see the Japanese address then they hand me the key.

If someone pushes the issue (very rarely occurs) I will ask them politely if the are from immigration or if they are a police officer which usually ends the conversation.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Just a waste of money, no high level foreigners will want to do this way esp after the Carlos Ghosn case.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

'Not ordinary foreigners. Illegal foreigners. There's a difference. If foreigners feel that these are "extreme measures", than they should do more for Japan by whistleblowing those people that they already know are here illegally.'

Grass.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

What about Japanese Nationals ID Cards - does the same apply to them too ?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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