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JeffLee
No one understands that this trend -- of double income households -- is actually bad for our socio-economic system.
These boffins need to figure out ways of returning us to our earlier hard-found prosperity, wherein we only needed one income to maintain a middle class living standards.
The massively wealthy corporates, who have been undoing the labor reforms of the 20th century, are now aiming to put us ALL back on the treadmill. They've achieved 19th century levels of inequality, now it's time for 19th working conditions.
shallots
It my be a start just to making working not so awful. A 35-hour week and 6 weeks of vacations would be saner and make it possible for men and women to share family and power in society. I think with this working style there is no way for women to gain equality. It seems like there is a delusion that people can work 60-hour weeks and improve women's situations at the same time. It's impossible.
justbcuzisay
Seems to be mixing two different problems. What about the women in between, the one's that don't have kids but are still housewives? Not sure why you need to be home all day if your hubby isn't even home till late at night. Which is really the biggest problem I see for women not wanting having kids
toshiko
Both Ann and Carolyn are from USA that is not a country of misogyny. However they can encourage college educated Japanese women to push into corporation structure. Both of them have been working mothers, They can share their experience as a mother and wife in Japan. Well, their income situation differs than Japanese women workers but nice they care oppressed Japanese no-job women..
Disillusioned
That's the basis of Abe's economic recovery. He wants everybody working for low salaries. The main reason he wants everybody working is to tax the heck out of everybody and to rebuild the failed pension scheme/scam.
My first reaction to this headline was, "Bwahaha!" However, it 'may' highlight the gender prejudice in Japan.
gogogo
Japan has along way to go
FPSRussia
REALLY???
Lead by example.
This is definitely the epicenter of gender equality on all levels..
Dennis Bauer
I wonder if some of these "prominent" politicians will shout interesting comments during the presentations. ;)
sighclops
@Burning Bush
This is not true, nor is it the 1950s. A period that Japanese society seems to be stuck in - in many respects. Both parents should work and, more importantly, the mother should be setting an example for her daughter(s). Japan has been raising generations of women who's sole life goal is to "get married as quickly as possibly and become a housewife". Tell me, from a women's rights perspective, what kind of goal is that?! This especially rings true in the more rural parts of Japan, where this mentality is rife.
The fact of the matter is, women in Japan will never reach gender equality in the workplace if you push for single income households. Let's face it, this lies at the very foundation of the "old boys club" societal problem here. Oyajis will never treat women equally if they're constantly led to believe that "a woman's place is in the home".
This is 2014.
illsayit
But a lack of childcare facilities, poor career support and deeply entrenched sexism are blamed for keeping women at home, and for one of the lowest birthrates in the developed world as young women see having children as obstacles to their careers
Crup! It is well known that as a country the greater it becomes facilitated with education, the living standrads are raised, and women are given equal opportunity, birthrates drop. THAT trend doesnt change no matter which country. So in fact with modernisation women have again become the back seat, and lied to about their value. It doesnt make sense that women who are more educated are less inclined to love and have children. There is so much available for the support of women in an advanced society and yet women are being victimized again. Their value as mothers and wives is taken away from them.
Because it is such an emotionally involved topic, sometimes it is just the devil, sometimes it is the women who have become victims and are dealing with their own sadness, that this voice of again creating an illusion, deceives and destroys families, children and the country as a whole. I wouldnt be surprised if the women surrounding Abe and advising Abe are like this. But I think he isnt deceived as some expect. I guess we will have to wait and see what this meeting brings to the table. I am certain of one thing; it will bring a lot of gnashing of teeth.
nath
Excellent to see that irony is not entirely gone from world affairs.
NathalieB
Given that Ive just heard anectodal evidence from a friend who is highly qualified and trying to find a job in Tokyo that recruitment agents are still being specifically told by Japanese companies not to forward them any applications from women, I would say they have a long way to go.
jerseyboy
Guess Japan will not have much to contribute to this discussion, especially there in the Foreign Ministry, which is almost 100% male in the upper ranks. But they'll no doubt have lots of young women there who can pour tea properly.
NathalieB
Wow.
Equality is not about bullying women into what they should or should not be doing. Its about allowing them the CHOICE to decide what is right for their circumstances, be it a full time working mother, or a stay at home one (WITH the respect that that should entail as its a damned hard job if you do it right). Right now, that choice is not there in a great many cases.
Probie
Okay. This will be fascinating! I'm sure everyone want to hear how difficult it was for Caroline Kennedy to overcome all the challenges of empowering herself that she has faced in her life as the daughter of an American president.
toshiko
@Burning Bush
Japan, like America, was better off when one breadwinner could take care of family finances and the other could raise the kids with love, care and attention. If both parents are working, who's raising the kids?
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I would say Like America, if both parents do not work they are very poor. Kids don't stay babies forever. They grow and attend schools. If both parents work, they show good examples of work ethics, When both parents work, both parents take responsibility of raising children, not to make maid-wife. I wrote about USA where I live. Married doctors, married lawyers, professors, politicians, entertainers, financiers, business owners, you hardly see one person income families who are not poor.
wanderlust
2 of the most dangerous women in the world - Christine Lagarde and Cherie Blair - coming to preach to Japan. Neither have a clue what it is like to be low income, unappreciated, unempowered, under-privileged and disenfranchised. Expect them to demand quotas and action plans, which will be forgotten within weeks of the event finishing.
igloobuyer
I disagree. The purpose of empowering women has never been to somehow force them to work or to force society to become 'double income'. It's about giving women the CHOICE to work and have career potential on a par with men. That is not happening right now. It's more about human rights than trying to force ALL people onto the 'treadmill' as you put it.
Michael Grant
Attendance should be mandatory for all those sexist oafs in the Diet. They should be made to sit, gagged if need be, and listen to every lecture until they learn something about women's right to equality.
jpntdytmrow
Well, if there were a group of elite men coming to Japan to tell how women should live and behave, we would likely be upset. But, here are a group of elite women coming to Japan to tell women how to live, work, behave, raise children, and so on and we are not supposed to think anything odd. One thing missing from these forums on "women" where ever they are held are "women" who work, stay home, raise and educate kids, care for aging elderly family members, run community volunteer organizations for single parents, mentally challenged, aged, farming, teaching local culture, and so much more. Where are applications for regular women to attend and share their voices and give real experiences of the difficulty in balancing the family and career, or those who want to climb the ladder with sexism all around. Anyway, here is the website for yet another chance for a few to pat themselves on the back and walk away back to their lives, never having heard any voices of real women in this community, inclulding those of us who make Japan our home but are not Japanese, just struggling in similar ways to make ends meet, stretch the yen, and be unable to earn too much or have huge taxes on income if it goes beyond the li'l part time job at the konbini or crap fast food restaurant. If a woman has a full time career, she has to make sure it is enough to pay her own health insurance and individual taxes. The smiling women in the photo are not even representive of the average woman they have likely never even spoken to. http://www.mofa.go.jp/fp/hr_ha/page22e_000456.html It would be great if more women were participating in this!!
NathalieB
In the US and the UK (the two countries in which I have experience as a working mother so I cant comment on others) it is possible to work 9--5 (or thereabouts) and then go home and tend to the homework, dinner, spend time as a family, and yet still be considered a serious careerwoman.
In Japan, if you work those same hours, you are not taken seriously and are considered nothing more than a "part timer" - if you can even get a job at all, or get your old job back afer maternity leave without being shunted off into some meaningless side position.
Until that cultural shift takes place, women AND men for that matter will always find it impossible to balance work and family life and feel forced to choose one or the other. You simply cant have both parents working the kind of hours Japan expects in a serious career position, and still be able to raise children - not without an army of help at least, and certainly not by yourself, and have both a happy balanced career and home life. The culture will need to change for that to happen and we all know there is no chance of that, so nothing is going to change. Whatever these people recommend, and whatever rules the government brings in, the businesses here will find a way to circumvent them the same way they manage to circumvent a whole host of other labor laws.
Mzdi8jc5
@illsayit I'm afraid your views match the common misconception regarding this matter; empirical evidence contradicts this entirely.
"if female labor participation rates are plotted against birth rates for various countries, there is a distinctly positive—not negative—correlation between the two, meaning that countries with higher labor participation rates such as Sweden, Denmark, the Netherlands, and the UK, tend to have higher fertility rates and vice versa" (Goldman Sachs Global Investment Research , 2014, pp.26-27)
There are other factors to consider such as provision of childcare, which this paper outlines, however it is incorrect to make a sweeping statement as you did is.
http://www.goldmansachs.com/our-thinking/outlook/womenomics4-folder/womenomics4-time-to-walk-the-talk.pdf
kyushubill
Wanderlust: "2 of the most dangerous women in the world - Christine Lagarde and Cherie Blair - coming to preach to Japan. Neither have a clue what it is like to be low income, unappreciated, unempowered, under-privileged and disenfranchised."
You took the words right out of my mouth. Here, here.
CrazyJoe
Most Japanese men spend their waking hours outside the home - working overtime, socializing with business associates and commuting two to four hours a day. They leave decisions on education, child rearing and household spending to their wives. It's unnatural for a society to leave no room for families. The way things are now, many married women are virtually running single-parent households. Japanese companies treat men as if they were bachelors, without any family responsibilities other than a paycheck. They might as well be bachelors, given their lack of real involvement in their families.
JTeer
Agree with @sighclops.
Fouxdefa
NathalieB and CrazyJoe have good points. A Japanese dual-income home is not going to allow the family life of an American dual-income home (if we are talking both spouses having full-time shain careers with full benefits and responsibilities including hours from 7am to midnight plus commute and golf events on weekends) how could they raise children? They'd have to hire a nanny. Voila! Three taxable incomes in one household. Abe you clever man you. Everybody working a full-time job in Japan=a country of adults with no private life. But I think that's what the Japanese government wants. It is easier to support the pensioners that way than to overhaul the system (or increase workers via immigration).
A perfectly acceptable goal if that's what a woman truly wants. Shoved unwilling into one choice I agree is not good, but intact family life is extremely important to society, and pouring time and love into children and husband as a housewife is very fulfilling for some like me. I know my view may seem backwards these days but please don't devalue the housewife/full-time mother.
I think if Abe wants more women in the workplace he should focus on supporting "iku-men" and getting more men to stay home and raise the kids. Now wouldn't that rock the boat!!
smithinjapan
I bet they'll be hiring a whole lot of women to help with this event -- to serve tea to the men. And I love Abe's comment about how he'll "try" to keep women in top positions with the cabinet shuffle that HE wants -- as though he has no power over the choices he makes for the positions!! It's all lip-service from him and others who blather on about changes being made while doing nothing to realize these changes.
Himajin
Yes, Japan will be so much more advanced with a 50% divorce rate.
While all this crowing is going on about how everyone's country is so much better for women, really have a good look at both societies.
"But, here are a group of elite women coming to Japan to tell women how to live, work, behave, raise children, and so on and we are not supposed to think anything odd. One thing missing from these forums on "women" where ever they are held are "women" who work, stay home, raise and educate kids, care for aging elderly family members, run community volunteer organizations for single parents, mentally challenged, aged, farming, teaching local culture, and so much more. . . The smiling women in the photo are not even representive of the average woman they have likely never even spoken to. "
Bravo! Office jobs are not the only jobs, nor are they the only jobs worth respect. Not every woman WANTS an office job, or to be a lawyer or CEO.
kaimycahl
@ Toshiko
Keep in mind U.S. ambassador to Japan Caroline Kennedy and Disney Media Networks boss Anne Sweeney.were both born with Platinum spoons in their mouths what do you mean working mothers?
wtfjapan
I wonder if the Tokyo gov will send a group of professional hecklers!?
toshiko
@kaimycahlAUG. 07, 2014 - 10:39PM JST @ Toshiko
Keep in mind U.S. ambassador to Japan Caroline Kennedy and Disney Media Networks boss Anne Sweeney.were both born with Platinum spoons in their mouths what do you mean working mothers?
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They have jobs (working) and they have children (mothers)'
Sweeney, was not born with Patinum spoons. Just upper middle class in NY States. She worked hard to make Disneyland organization get ahead of changing entertainment world since her Nickeldian era. So, Disneyland hasn't been pushed down by Cartoon Network.
NathalieB
they have bathrooms bigger than peoples entire Japanese apartments and an army of paid help and support. So no, they wont have a clue what it is really like on the ground.
That said, they are high profile, and clearly care about this issue. So I agree with your former comment - good for them.
Tahoochi
I've said it before and I'll say it again: The FIRST thing Japan needs to do is enforce equal pay. No more "OL's", no more women doing the same job in a factory for less pay. Otherwise, there's simply no motivation for women to work. For example, why work when you pay more for daycare then you earn? On the other side of the coin, the "deeply entrenched sexism" and social aspects of inequality of the sexes won't change overnight.
toshiko
@NathalieBAUG. 08, 2014 - 12:31AM JST They have jobs (working) and they have children (mothers)'
they have bathrooms bigger than peoples entire Japanese apartments and an army of paid help and support. So no, they wont have a clue what it is really like on the ground.
That said, they are high profile, and clearly care about this issue. So I agree with your former comment - good for them.
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It is their private life that we can not judge from their wealth or successful business life. That is why many wealthy people support paraplegic sport events and donate to autism helping organizations and cancer hlp, etc
About cancer, we usually don't know until they are dead, Again, we can't judge people's happiness with their wealth.
Jeff Huffman
JeffLeeAUG. 07, 2014 - 07:10AM JST No one understands that this trend -- of double income households -- is actually bad for our socio-economic system.
Why?
These boffins need to figure out ways of returning us to our earlier hard-found prosperity, wherein we only needed one income to maintain a middle class living standards.
Okay. Maybe if it means that the dearth of equal-employment opportunities and gross wage disparities disappear. Otherwise . . . You also seem to make the assumption, though not explicitly stated, that we are talking about a nuclear family of parents and their children. Plenty of DINKs have no problem with careers or even just two decently compensated jobs.
And it's middle-income living standards. "Middle class" is a social indicator not necessarily tied to wealth or lack there of.
The massively wealthy corporates, who have been undoing the labor reforms of the 20th century, are now aiming to put us ALL back on the treadmill. They've achieved 19th century levels of inequality, now it's time for 19th working conditions.
With regard to unions, but the rest is really a matter of investment and tax fairness, which doesn't exist in the U.S. right now where unearned income is taxed at lower rates than earned income, and the only people who this matters to, of course, are people who derive most of their income from the former. Ditto for capping the income level used to calculate SS and FICA taxes.
toshiko
In two incomes family, sometimes wives make more money than husbands, That helps their children attend universities in Tokyo, Osaka, etc and in many cases, they send their sons/daughters to universities in UK/USA.
falseflagsteve
What next compulsory education only up to 13 years old, then you are expected to work? Maybe retirement age at 80 while the elite get richer. Ever feel like you're being cheated?
falseflagsteve
What next compulsory education only up to 13 years old, then you are expected to work unless you pay? Maybe retirement age at 80 while the elite get richer. Ever feel like you're being cheated?
toshiko
There is a disadvantage in one income families. If the breadwinner passes away, families suddenly becomes poor. Two income families? Just one income will be gone.
JeffLee
Because ever since free-market policies and double-income households became the norm, real wages in the US and elsewhere have declined. We need to figure out how and why THAT happened, rather than merely accepting and learning to love the ongoing state of decline.
All of the labor reforms, like sick pay, etc., were followed by strong GDP growth and rising incomes. The free competition based moves that came more recently to reverse that progress have led to stagnation and inequality.
It's a no-brainer.
jpntdytmrow
"The meeting would run over two days from September 12 with about 100 prominent business and political figures ...."
I would appreciate a list of the other prominent business and political figures http://nwp.nikkei.com/waw/ In Japanese, shows a few of the speakers.
http://www.mofa.go.jp/fp/hr_ha/page22e_000456.html the official site but does not give names nor show that it is open to the general public...only some "EXPERTS" on women's issues.
We are all experts on women's issues. Many of us had double income parents, single parents, affluent parents, struggling to make ends meet parents, food on the well set dining table at night, or told to plop in a frozen entre into the microwave and eat alone, and now, many of us are in similar, better or worse situations than what we grew up with. We know people who had luxury one week and tragedy strike the next week. I have a neighbor with three children, a husband with a successful career, kids in private schools, excellent home made and healthy food only, but the husband died suddenly, and now they are are a single parent family with kids forced to enter the public school system they have never known, give up university. They will make it but will this forum talk about such families? They were not wealthy but made choices. Yes, she gave up a career to raise her kids to be all they could be without luxury. When parents have more time in the morning, they can make better food. Busy mornings mean rushed and often packaged breakfast...."Wheaties, the breakfast of champions...." REALLY? How about hot soup and whole grain breads with vegetables to start off the day? I know Japanese working mothers who struggle between getting the young toddlers to the nursery and being called at 11 to be notified of a fever they have to go home for. Well, we will see what comes of this forum....or NOT because it is not open to women or people related to women like spouses, children, parents, employers, etc. Who are the 100 other speakers?
toshiko
@jontdytmrow: why are you writing "we"? Write "I" so that you may be able to qualify to attend the meeting. Make sure to prove you are a woman. 'We" will not work. A woman's black hair wig might be able to fool if you are as short as Japanese women. Don't forget to talk in Japanese language. Good luck !
illsayit
""""
NathalieBAug. 07, 2014 - 01:23PM JST
In the US and the UK (the two countries in which I have experience as a working mother so I cant comment on others) it is possible to work 9--5 (or thereabouts) and then go home and tend to the homework, dinner, spend time as a family, and yet still be considered a serious careerwoman.
In Japan, if you work those same hours, you are not taken seriously and are considered nothing more than a "part timer" - if you can even get a job at all, or get your old job back afer maternity leave without being shunted off into some meaningless side position """
Honestly I think this opinion is formed because of the cultural habits being slightly different. Japan respects women with a career. Japan also respects the family. So they dont give prefernce to women with a career, or belittle motherhood like in say places like the US or the UK. You maybe just need to tweek your cultural sensibilities to understand that Japan isnt lacking, they just dont show favoritism.
But as for that link that empirical shared, thankyou.
I dont see how it contradicts what I stated. Sorry I didnt source you out with something, (in fact the lady who has one of my books with a bunch of sources could you return it please), my usual sourcing tends to be different to somewhere like goldmans. Nevertheless a quick search of terms like birth dearth, fertility rates will show the same results. My comment wasnt that wide spread, there is enough discussion to consider it a very real situation. Which btw you link highlights just as much. Exhibit 2 shows just a few countries, and tries to state that Japan is particular but if you look at the graph the line is the same. Exhibit 3 has me wondering if they want women to work construction and security. Or whether they just want to push men into menial work and have women being the boss-which a lot of the rest of the article seems to highlight about having women in leadership roles. Which is kinda weird cause the there is a heap of exhibits and stats showing that Japan has improved and that in fact the number of wome working is really high 73% on page7. Which if you take into consideration that some women are having children and the elderly, that sounds pretty much like all of them!! Then if you consider that Japan does place high value of family and doesnt belittle it in comparison to a career based woman, then the idea that Japanese women would understand that leader roles are more suitable to men. They would choose that they could give quality to motherhood and women in the home, whilst also working and contributing to society. Exhibit 19 gives weight to the argument that a single income is dropping and that it has probably facilitated the necessity for women to work. Also the positions rather than the gender reflect the earnings and their differences. The average income for men is no different to women, and it is this single income that has dropped significantly so that women have been forced to overloaded with motherhood and work. It has also devalued men, and unempowered them . I would ask Japan would you want that for your son? Would you want your son to feel like he isnt capable of being the man in his family? Japanese men nowadays do share in household activities, but in taking upon themselves that chore, does it have to be that they sacrifice their strength as being a good provider, a strong pillar for their family???
Im mean really looking at the report shows how Japan has made improvements, continuing to say that it needs improvemnets is just as some comments say in a round about way: who the fack are these foreigners think they are dictating to everybody. As for the taxes that is just government trying to get more for themselves, and hiding behind the feminist voice, as if they are the gentleman. I mean how can you be a gentleman and not be a provider. That sounds more like a gay guy. No offense meant, but gentle and not being able to provide for a family, just doesnt sound like a man that I would want for my daughters. And the constant attention to child-minding facilities bewilders me-havent they noticed how much Japan has this. This article even states as much. Things the like the entrepeneur input just doesnt make sense isnt that something that is encouraged across the board. It is not something that you can just say well if we push a certain gender it will improve.Retraining is also another thing I just dont get. For eg, use an older women with her skills in people management or whatever and use a younger employee with pc skills whatever and create a balance. Learn from each other on the job. Workers are needed right why send them to school when they can learn on the job.And contribute as well with knowledge they have. The weirdest thing I ve heard of hairdressers needing retraining? I heard that in Amrica they need to constantly update their license or they cant work. Unbelievable!!!!! Exhibit 22 Clearly shows that women would rather value their children than work. I cant see how you would read anything else into that. They quit their job, they chose their child, why would they choose work again? Unless the single income wasnt enough?????? And Male champions of Change, what silly thing is that??? Stating that women dont like women and those who encourage women working do??? Sounds like lazy men to me, but I guess there could be some positiveness to it, but like is that serious. And like myth 1 based on 1500 women, what is it a party? but still it reflects that Japanese women have more family ideals naturally inclining themselves to being a mother--what is wrong with that?
As for exhibits 26 and 27, they think they conclude the article but that is where the biggest deception occurs in this article. Whenever the fertility rate is below 2 your fertility rate is dropping. What these exhibits do show is that over the year there has been an increase. YEY. So what it suggests to me with all this deception is that somebody is starting to panic and worry that Japan is improving and wants to show a negative. Show how women in Japan are so negatively represented, wants to deceive the govt-who are always deceiveable if it menas they can get more power and money, and wants to detroy the Japanese family before they get an idea that soemone is trying to destroy it.
Anythingelse I will comment later should it be necessary to point out that Japan is in the process of being deceived with this assembly for women. The question us at this point in time, do Japanese women have the ears and eyes to see and hear the truth and not bend to the deception. Going on things so far the answer is yes. But because of that strength those who would oppose are upping their effort-hang in there Japan!!!!!
rydangel
smh. they still haven't passed the era(equal rights amendment guaranteeing equal pay for equal work for women and minorities) in the usa. but they are going to tell japan how to get more women to work. i agree something needs to be done about the situation in japan. but first fix your own house. as a woman i want the choice to choose what is best for me and my family. ideally to be able to stay home with the kids until they are school age and then return to full-time work. that would be my dream.it's what my mom did. however as a single childless woman right now, i resent always having to work the early morning shift or stay late or come in on my off day to cover for a working mom who had to leave to pick up her kids before the daycare closes(usually daycare centers are only open from 6am-6pm), having to work every holiday because i don't have a family. i have a family just not a husband and kids. getting crappy vacation days because parents have to arrange their time around school breaks. i can understand why japanese women don't want to work. if i didn't love and need money i'd stay home too.even in america, once a woman gets a certain age or has kids, her career suffers. there is an assumption that she will put her family first and can't fully commit to the job. plus women still get paid less than men in many career fields so they can't afford to hire a nanny or housekeeper. plus you just don't get promoted, because they think you'll either quit when you get married or have kids, or won't be able to work 12 hour days,weekends, 60 hr work weeks. still something needs to be done, i just don't know what.
toshiko
It is difficult to compare women issues in Japan and USA. Yesterday discussion was to legalize female students have guns to protect them from stalkers in one state that denied such law. Working? Many large corporations have female CEOs. Just capable persons get promoted.