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Japan to limit 4th COVID vaccine to elderly, those with underlying conditions

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"We will examine the scope of coverage while looking at future evidence and the infection situation,"

Need to see future spike after golden week or obon week first.

1 ( +7 / -6 )

US Big Pharma companies won’t be happy with this. But at least we are protecting the old and high risk citizens.

1 ( +10 / -9 )

Why the change of heart?

There are people who want the 4th shot in the arm, supplies are available.

Why not jab them?

It's completely safe and effective, why the ... hesitancy?

6 ( +14 / -8 )

This should have been that from the start. Only vaccinating the elderlies and people at risk.

1 ( +10 / -9 )

It's completely safe and effective, why the ... hesitancy?

Contrary to what people with anti-scientific bias believe, recommendations are not done with such simple logic if the evidence until now says only certain groups get a benefit that is what is recommended.

This should have been that from the start. Only vaccinating the elderlies and people at risk.

Present a reference that contradicts the mountains of data that prove everybody get an important reduction of risk from vaccination, including a reduction of the transmission.

-6 ( +8 / -14 )

Understanding that governments are inept and prone to erroneous knee jerk judgements and no amount of obfuscation can hide the obvious, means that the game is up over this debacle

2 ( +7 / -5 )

recommendations are not done with such simple logic if the evidence until now says only certain groups get a benefit that is what is recommended.

So countries that are giving the 4th dose to healthy people under 60 are making a mistake?

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Present a reference that contradicts the mountains of data that prove everybody get an important reduction of risk from vaccination, including a reduction of the transmission.

As for influenza, everybody get a reduction of risk if vaccinated but the vaccine is only recommended for elderlies and persons at risk, even in Japan, where beyond the official recommendation, many young people do it.

So tell me why young people and kids have to be vaccinated against covid when their risk is low. About the reduction of transmission, tell me why in a country like Korea, highly vaccinated and where wearing a mask was mandatory outside, the country has seen up to 400000 infections a day with Omicron.

I have done at least 10 different vaccines including two doses of Pfizer, but I don’t buy the story with the covid vaccine

7 ( +9 / -2 )

So countries that are giving the 4th dose to healthy people under 60 are making a mistake?

They are doing something that is not proved to reduce significantly the risk for those people, are you surprised governments act against the best available evidence?

So tell me why young people and kids have to be vaccinated against covid when their risk is low.

See how many cases of influenza were in the last season, now see how many cases of COVID are there every day. That would be enough to answer. A low individual risk can still mean a huge public health problem when everybody gets infected even with life-changing measures in place to reduce transmission.

About the reduction of transmission, tell me why in a country like Korea, highly vaccinated and where wearing a mask was mandatory outside, the country has seen up to 400000 infections a day with Omicron.

Because vaccines are not the only measure that is necessary, just an important part of them, so it is understandable that when the other measures are abandoned the cases will increase (thanks to the vaccine hospitalizations and deaths did not increase in the same proportion).

You are confused between saying vaccines do help reducing transmission (which is true) and saying vaccines by themselves are enough to completely stop transmission and make any other measure unnecessary (which is obviously false).

Why do you think every institution of medicine and science in the world recommends vaccination of the general population? are the scientific and medical communities worse at evaluating the evidence than you?

-7 ( +4 / -11 )

See how many cases of influenza were in the last season, now see how many cases of COVID are there every day.

I don't recall mass testing for influenza. And indeed, the statistics for influenza are strangely and largely not available for the past few years. A fair comparison cannot be made, but perhaps should be.

Are we OK to talk about this yet? If not, I'm sure my comment will be "appropriately" censored in due course...

7 ( +11 / -4 )

Why do you think every institution of medicine and science in the world recommends vaccination of the general population?

Coercion, censorship, misinformation, disinformation, propaganda and outright bullying. Not the first time big pharma has engaged in such activities...

9 ( +12 / -3 )

vaccines do help reducing transmission (which is true)

Which is absolutely not true.

That is what the so called experts are trying to tell us, but that is completely wrong.

Best Example is given from the other poster here about South Korea.

Vaccination rate of 86%, daily infections 400.000.

Vaccine rates increased during the last weeks and months in SK, and so did the cases.

Therefore, the vaccine do not help to reduce transmission.

People believe blindly what they got told, that vaccine do reduce transmissions, so they let down their basic protections, and therefore cases increase, because the vaccines do NOT help reducing transmissions.

People should not blindly believe what the experts and vaccine makers are trying to sell them.

5 ( +10 / -5 )

Sorry, last part of my post was missing...

Vaccine rates increased all over the world, so if its true that the vaccine helps to reduce the transmission, the Corona cases must go down, or at least stay stable.

But the cases increases everywhere.

Here In Japan, cases are stable and sometimes go down.

But not because of the vaccination rate, it is because people behave well, like wearing masks, hand sanitizers and such things.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

Keep spewing out the one sided narrative and perhaps the people start to believe it; it’s a classic psy-op strategy.

6 ( +9 / -3 )

are you surprised governments act against the best available evidence?

No.

Could you please tell us which governments are right, and which are wrong.

And how you're able to conclude with certainty that "experts" in country X are right and "experts" from country Y are wrong.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

Still no shots specifically for the variants/subvariants?

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Why do you think every institution of medicine and science in the world recommends vaccination of the general population?

why is this posted seemingly all over the place, is this true?

why would, for example, a cancer institute, recommend vaccination?

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Why do you think every institution of medicine and science in the world recommends vaccination of the general population?

Just like in the 1950s when every institution of medicine and science in the world recommended spraying schoolkids with DDT every year to disinfect them.

The parents were assured... don't worry, it's safe and effective, trust the experts.

Wrong then, wrong now.

I'm not participating in this boondoggle and neither are my kids.

4 ( +9 / -5 )

I don't recall mass testing for influenza. And indeed, the statistics for influenza are strangely and largely not available for the past few years

What are you talking about? the statistics for influenza are being reported monthly by the NIID same as ever, what you can't find are cases, and not because it has not been tested for (it is) but because the measures against COVID are much more effective at preventing influenza. One thing is that the information is not available, another is that you actively refuse to accept that information even when it is easy to access.

Coercion, censorship, misinformation, disinformation, propaganda and outright bullying. Not the first time big pharma has engaged in such activities...

So, according to you every single institution of science and medicine is in this world wide conspiracy, because the alternative is that you are mistaken, and you honestly thing the conspiracy (where all those professionals accept using a supposedly dangerous vaccine on themselves, their friends and family) is the logical answer? sorry but that is not believable. It is much more simple and rational that you are mistaken about vaccines because you choose to believe information that can be easily demonstrate as false, the same as you believing there is no influenza data being reported.

Which is absolutely not true.

yes it is, demonstrated scientifically.

https://www.eurosurveillance.org/content/10.2807/1560-7917.ES.2021.26.44.2100977

The worst thing is that you already know this (because you asked for this reference and was even surprised the reduction was above 60 %) but for any reason choose to repeat the false information that this is not true. Why would anybody repeat something already debunked with information?

Best Example is given from the other poster here about South Korea.

Vaccination rate of 86%, daily infections 400.000.

Vaccines are part of the measures that reduce the transmission, not the only one necessary, so if the other measures are abandoned obviously vaccines by themselves will not be enough to eradicate infections, this was already explained before.

Here In Japan, cases are stable and sometimes go down.

Because the measures (including vaccination) have been much more closely observed by the population even when the government only puts forward lukewarm requests.

-5 ( +4 / -9 )

No.

Could you please tell us which governments are right, and which are wrong.

Those whose actions are congruent with the best available science at the time are right, those that act on undecided details MAY be right, those that act against the available evidence are obviously choosing other priorities instead of public health. this should not be such a big mystery.

And how you're able to conclude with certainty that "experts" in country X are right and "experts" from country Y are wrong.

One, experts are not right and wrong when opinions differ, both can be right if they are acting on the best available evidence on their location. But when there is a consensus of science that clearly proves something (like vaccines being safe and effective, masks useful, etc.) and someone acts against this without the evidence to disprove it then it will be wrong.

The good part is that people that usually do this are not experts, they are officials, bureaucrats, etc. that have no actual expertise on public health matters, so there is no contradiction either.

One, two, three and now four jabs of a substance that doesn't prevent infection or transmission of the virus. So long as Big Pharma are happy. Little wonder intelligent people are saying NO.

The thing is that it does prevent (in the medical use of the world) infection and transmission, which is why the experts do recommend them according to the situation of each person.

why is this posted seemingly all over the place, is this true?

why would, for example, a cancer institute, recommend vaccination?

Every institution with an interest on the topic and that have made any official declaration about it does, anybody can disprove this by bringing an opposite case, but people repeating disinformation always fail to find any examples.

And for your example

https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/coronavirus/coronavirus-cancer-patient-information

Institutions like the National Cancer Institute of the US need to give information to cancer patients about topics medically important for them, COVID is a huge risk for those patients and that is why it is important that false information is debunked and correct information about it and the vaccines promoted.

-4 ( +5 / -9 )

Just like in the 1950s when every institution of medicine and science in the world recommended spraying schoolkids with DDT every year to disinfect them.

Then provide information that disprove this consensus, as done with DDT, because arguing that the consensus "might" be wrong is useless, after all it could be wrong on the opposite direction as well, what if in the future we end up knowing that vaccines should have been forced on everybody even if they did not wanted to be vaccinated?

What ifs are irrelevant. Do you have data that disproves this consensus? then it can be changed, but if not, that means it is still the best thing humanity can come up and much less likely to be wrong that personal beliefs that go against the evidence available.

-5 ( +5 / -10 )

@ virusrex

Keep on trawling the net for this and that study to back up your ideas that scientists and doctors know best.

However, I know my own body and how it has reacted to vaccines and I have seen firsthand the effects of the Covid virus on myself.

I don’t need to know what governments and institutions tell me is fact; I know it firsthand.

5 ( +10 / -5 )

Every institution with an interest on the topic and that have made any official declaration about it does, anybody can disprove this by bringing an opposite case, but people repeating disinformation always fail to find any examples.

And for your example

https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/coronavirus/coronavirus-cancer-patient-information

Institutions like the National Cancer Institute of the US need to give information to cancer patients about topics medically important for them, COVID is a huge risk for those patients and that is why it is important that false information is debunked and correct information about it and the vaccines promoted.

That's not for the general population

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Every institution with an interest on the topic and that have made any official declaration about it does, anybody can disprove this by bringing an opposite case, but people repeating disinformation always fail to find any examples.

Actually no one has to disprove it.

If you claim it, you have to prove it.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

See how many cases of influenza were in the last season, now see how many cases of COVID are there every day. That would be enough to answer.

Influenza has just disappeared here for the last two years. Before the arrival of Covid, 40-50000 cases a day were common, like for the Covid today.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Influenza has just disappeared here for the last two years. Before the arrival of Covid, 40-50000 cases a day were common, like for the Covid today.

First no, influenza cases at the worst had around 400,000 cases per season (of 16 weeks) that means at much 4000 per day, you would be wrong by one order of magnitude.

Second, the drop of influenza is something completely expected from having life changing and unsustainable measures in place to prevent respiratory infectious diseases. Which clearly demonstrate how the risk from Influenza can be reduced much more easily, even if not everybody is vaccinated. That still does not mean the influenza vaccine is not recommended officially for everybody, including children and young healthy people; this means that even if not everybody is vaccinated the public health problem does not goes out of control so easily.

For COVID this is not the case, even with much stronger measures and general vaccination the problem has gone out of control repeatedly. This is the reason why vaccines are much more strongly recommended, the same as masks and isolation, changes of conduct, cancellation of events, etc. It is the most the government can do about it, and it has not been enough in the past, hopefully will from now on.

-5 ( +4 / -9 )

A Japanese health ministry panel has approved a plan to initially administer fourth COVID-19 vaccine shots only to the elderly and people with underlying medical conditions.

Good move.

This vaccine is basically medically unnecessary according to the experts.

virusrexToday  12:05 pm JST

This is the reason why vaccines are much more strongly recommended, the same as masks and isolation, changes of conduct, cancellation of events, etc. It is the most the government can do about it, and it has not been enough in the past, hopefully will from now on.

Unless a person is not elderly, obese, or has comorbidity, in which case medical experts do not recommend the 4th shot.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

First no, influenza cases at the worst had around 400,000 cases per season (of 16 weeks) that means at much 4000 per day, you would be wrong by one order of magnitude.

Official numbers per year below, from the Ministry of Health, between 2016 and 2021.

The max per week was up to 280,000

総数 1,751,970 / 1,614,999 / 1,898,941 / 1,876,083 / 563,488 / 1,071

Honestly, I thought it was much more than that, but your figures are well below the reality.

Second, the drop of influenza is something completely expected from having life changing and unsustainable measures in place to prevent respiratory infectious diseases

It was for sure expected, but why experts and authorities kept recommending vaccination to avoid the double punch with covid and the burden of hospitals

For COVID this is not the case, even with much stronger measures and general vaccination the problem has gone out of control repeatedly. This is the reason why vaccines are much more strongly recommended,

The influenza vaccine has been around for a while and the efficiency proven for people at risk. The covid vaccine is recent and the efficiency against transmission might have worked with alpha, but not anymore with omicron.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Why do you think every institution of medicine and science in the world recommends vaccination of the general population?

The capture of medical institutes and regulatory agencies by pharma is well documented, and yet a number of them do not make that recommendation.

Also, the Danish health authority decided to suspend their Covid vaccination. I suspect at least partly due to that country's study showing that the mRNA "vaccines" had no effect on overall mortality.

I hope this latest announcement from the Japanese health ministry panel is an indication that it is starting to break free from this capture.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

This vaccine is basically medically unnecessary according to the experts.

The booster is, not the vaccine.

Unless a person is not elderly, obese, or has comorbidity, in which case medical experts do not recommend the 4th shot.

The quoted commend did not refer to boosters but vaccinations that are recommended by the expert to everybody except those with a medical exception.

Official numbers per year below, from the Ministry of Health, between 2016 and 2021.

The max per week was up to 280,000

Yes but the average of a season is still much lower, that is a completely different situation with COVID and much more importantly this happened without any of the life-changing measures that explain the huge drop of influenza. COVID presents up to 100,000 cases per day, not week and this is while under the measures.

It was for sure expected, but why experts and authorities kept recommending vaccination to avoid the double punch with covid and the burden of hospitals

Because it is still possible to get influenza and it has been demonstrated that having both infections is very dangerous. Still the promotion of the influenza vaccine is not as strong as the promotion of COVID vaccines, once again because of the difference in risk between both diseases. It is also important that the pandemic has made very difficult to predict influenza behavior,

The influenza vaccine has been around for a while and the efficiency proven for people at risk. The covid vaccine is recent and the efficiency against transmission might have worked with alpha, but not anymore with omicron.

Already disproved, the link I put here is not against alpha and still proves a reduction above 60%.

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

No one in the medical field would use this kind of flawed analogy to try and illustrate a point

Just calling something flawed because it disproves something you wanted to believe do not make it so, the analogy is perfectly valid for its purpose, which is to demonstrate a measure can be effective (as vaccines are) without completely eliminating a problem that requires many other measures to be controlled.

You can do the same with many other kinds of measures of proven efficacy that are by themselves unable to eliminate a problem.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

There are people who want the 4th shot in the arm, supplies are available. Why not jab them? It's completely safe and effective, why the ... hesitancy?

The risk assessment bean counters have adjudged that continuing with a universal vaccine intervention protocol confers little or no overall benefit.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

end up knowing that vaccines should have been forced on everybody even if they did not wanted to be vaccinated

This would be immoral under any conceivable circumstance or scenario.

No means No.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

No worries

i think 3 should be enough!

if you get it…./ it’s a common cold at this point……..

4 times is way too much!’ Don’t buy into it!

1 ( +3 / -2 )

This would be immoral under any conceivable circumstance or scenario.

Any scenario you conceive, but you miss the point, even if anybody think it is possible that still makes no sense because there is no information available that would justify it right now, exactly the same as vaccines ending up being not safer than not vaccinating. That is also not being conceivable for the experts and definitely not what the evidence says, so saying you want to imagine it is possible does not change anything.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

We’re long past the point of questioning effectiveness and firmly into the my God what have they done territory

Who’s ‘we’ here? ‘Legion… for we are many’?

@Virusrex

Keep up the good work. Always a pleasure to read something actually readable on these topics.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

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