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Japan marks 70th anniversary of Hiroshima atomic bombing

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The nuking of H&N was the most disgusting and cowardly war crime ever committed. It was little more than a brutal and cynical live human experiment on women and children. The depravity and racism of the US government and military is apparent from Harry Truman`s demented giggling prior to his announcement of the mass murders at Hiroshima:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d42dMSAltnQ

See Kermit Beahan gloat as he claims responsibility for nuking the women and children of Nagasaki:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdJyOBriLTI

As Brig. Gen. Carter W. Clarke, the officer in charge of preparing MAGIC intercepted cable summaries in 1945, stated:

"….we brought them [the Japanese] down to an abject surrender through the accelerated sinking of their merchant marine and hunger alone, and when we didn't need to do it, and we knew we didn't need to do it, and they knew that we knew we didn't need to do it, we used them as an experiment for two atomic bombs."

As the historical record shows, six of the seven US WWII five star officers concluded that the nuking of hundreds of thousands of civilians was unnecessary. In fact, the nuking was one of the most brutal and cynical atrocities ever committed. As Admiral Chester W. Nimitz stated:

"The atomic bomb played no decisive part, from a purely military standpoint, in the defeat of Japan. The Japanese had, in fact, already sued for peace before the destruction of Hiroshima and before the Russian entry into the war…."

Truman`s own diaries show that he prolonged hostilities until the nukes were ready. We also know that he lied to the US public when he stated that Hiroshima was a "military target".

Prior to nuking Hiroshima, the U.S. military had already obliterated over 60 Japanese cities with napalm and white phosphorous. This conclusively proves that Hiroshima and Nagasaki had little value other than as an opportunity for the US military to conduct nuke testing on human subjects.

In this connection, Paul Tibbets is on record as stating that Hiroshima was set aside as a "virgin" test city. Additionally, the primary targets at Hiroshima were residential in nature with the overwhelming majority of casualties being civilian. In fact, Hosokawa Elementary school was mere meters from the epicenter of the Hiroshima nuke strike. The fire-bombings and nuclear attacks on Japan were war crimes on par with the holocaust suffered by the Jews.

-1 ( +21 / -22 )

The firebombing of Tokyo was equally gruesome genocide of approxiamately 100,000 people. The bombers flew low enough so they could see and cut off routes people found to escape towards rivers.

Gen LeMay congratulated the crews, telling them that they had set a new record of killing the most number of people in the shortest time in history. That says all you need to know about the intent of the missions.

The world had gone mad.

18 ( +22 / -5 )

The bombs saved many many many Japanese lives. If Japan put as much into remembering that they caused the war and suffering as they do in the atomic bombings, which help speed up the end the war, they (the Japanese) would not be seen as not being sufficiently pertinent. Sadly, in this day and age legitimacy is achieved not by analysis or rational logic but rather by claiming and creating narratives of victimization.

-5 ( +17 / -21 )

Nuking hundreds of thousands of woman and children saved no lives. It is simply a laughable myth invented by the US government used to justify cynical and cowardly war crimes. Those who try to justify nuking children are similar to the Nazis who try to justify gassing Jews.

3 ( +21 / -18 )

notasapAug. 06, 2015 - 07:41AM JST The bombs saved many many many Japanese lives.

While this often repeated statement may very well be true, it seems rather irrelevant as Japanese lives meant nothing to us at the time. An honest representation would be that it most likely saved a great many American lives.

6 ( +13 / -7 )

American`s General LeMay was infamous for his hardcore racism and support of segregation. In fact, he ran for Vice-President of the USA in 1968 on a pro-segregation platform with the extremist AIP party.

Truman`s religious delusions and creepy racism were also certainly a factor in the nuking. Here is a quote from Harry S Truman on Japanese people:

"One man is just as good as another so long as he's honest and decent and not a NIG ER or a Chinaman…. the Lord made a white man from dust, a NIG ER from mud, and then threw what was left and it came down a Chinaman. He does hate Chinese and Japs. So do I." -Harry S Truman

4 ( +14 / -10 )

It is most unfortunate that innocent Japanese civilians had to die because their government and emperor would not surrender even though it was clear they could not win the war. World War II killed over 60 million, something like 3% of the world population at the time. That would be the equivalent of over 217 million dead by today's population figures. Yes, these weapons were terrible but account for only a small part of that 60 million total. Conventional warfare is horrible too.

4 ( +15 / -10 )

War changes people. When someone threatens your life it makes you capable of acts you would not even consider in another setting. There's very little doubt that any side in WW2 would have not used any weapon they had to destroy the other. Arguing one philosophy vs another is basically just telling me where you come from. Instead of uselessly arguing silly points such as merits and demerits (of randomly killing humans) I hope that we are closer through dialogue and education to not repeating these mistakes.

10 ( +12 / -2 )

An honest representation would be that it most likely saved a great many American lives.

No. At the ending, Japan had no food no weapon . If Americans left Japan and wait, that would have been enough.

-3 ( +10 / -15 )

Japan is truly world-class when it comes to playing the poor victim.

0 ( +20 / -18 )

Paying a big sacrifieces of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Japan for the first time could become a true modern democratic nation. No Japanese today thinks prewar Japan was a good society and wants to return to the old Japan which was built upon the sacrifices of the individuals where a nation dominated individuals being the country more important than individual happiness. Japan could not become a modern nation until the defeat. Japanese people before the war were still under the strong influences of feudal ages. Abe is wrong in putting too much values on the nation than the happiness of individuals.

4 ( +12 / -7 )

@ossan...no I meant it saved Japanese lives. The A-Bombs saved Japanese lives. Many many more would have died if the US had invaded the home islands and fought their across Honshu. That being said it did save many US lives as well. Let's not forget that Japan started this war...they are not victims.

@asdf..you are the only one myth making here today...sometimes history just doesn't jib with your "social justice" victim-hood idea of the world. Sorry to burst your bubble.

0 ( +9 / -9 )

as a resident of the world and as a human being no one can justify a nuclear bomb for whatever reason it was used, this human tragedy in the history should defend the future of the human race

5 ( +10 / -5 )

I always think about those children, the innocent lives lost in an instant and for those who had to carry on somehow, someway through this unimaginable tragedy.

It's always the normal, everyday people who suffer the most when their leaders call for war. These people were doing or were forced to do whatever their government told them to do, they had no idea the reality of the situation. Most of them had no choice and they were sacrificed like lambs to the slaughter for what? One man's or one military's greed.

5 ( +9 / -4 )

The most disgusting, cowardly and gratuitous act of mass violence against a civilian population in the Pacific War era was the Rape of Nanjing. The human experiments at Unit 731 and similar facilities rank up there in crimes against humanity.

This aside, the A-bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki followed established military procedure, used by Allies and Axis powers, in bombing civilian populations, basically for the purpose of demoralizing them (which did not work, as later studies showed). Fifty percent of all deaths in WWII were noncombatants.

The ugly fact about the A-bomb is that the first power to make the A-bomb was compelled to use it. Had Truman not used the A-bomb he would have been blamed for every G.I. death after its manufacture. If either Germany or Japan had built an A-bomb they would have used it on us.

It would have been nice if the US had dropped the A-bomb is some isolated place to scare the Japanese military elite. Problems were that the US did not know if the bomb would work, they did not have many A-bombs and to be convincing they needed gore.

Whatever people said in retrospect, no one in the US military made an outstanding protest to Truman urge him not to drop the A-bomb. On the Japanese side, the fanatic military elite, the Army and Navy, wanted to fight to the bitter end when there was no one left to fight for Japan. Hirohito for his part want one more decisive victory before suing for peace. Like it or not, in the least the A-bombs gave Hirohito an excuse to surrender, as we see from his non-surrender surrender speech. As I wrote elsewhere the most fanatic of the fanatic military elite attempted a coup. They almost succeeded.

Terrorizing civilian populations was business as usual in WWII. If the A-bomb had to be dropped, it should have been dropped on the Imperial Palace. The Army and Navy headquarters were only a few blocks away and they would have also been vaporized.

Of course that never would have happened. The US was saving Hirohito for use after the war. Bomber squads that were bombing the working class districts of Tokyo were expressly told to leave the Imperial Palace alone.

Common people were expendable, as not only Hiroshima and Nagasaki show, while the elites who started the war were as precious as pandas.

4 ( +15 / -11 )

"I always think about those children, the innocent lives lost "

I always think of the roughly 10 million people who lost their lives from Japan's Asian adventure, including lots of (non-Japanese) children.

But then, I'm fairly well-read on the topic, and don't need to resort to knee-jerk emotions generated by a rapacious and meticulously organized victimization industry that strips away the awkward historical context.

11 ( +19 / -8 )

Having just watched the remembrance events at Hiroshima on TV, I am reminded that, 70 years since that fateful morning in Hiroshima, war is hell. There is just no other way to state it.

Millions lost their lives in this war, including those in Hiroshima. That Hiroshima witnessed the first use of an atomic bomb does not make the loss of life that morning (and in the aftermath) any greater or less than the loss of life in countless other cities across the world during that war.

One can talk about the relative morality of actions during a war, but in the end, it does not change the fact that war is hell. And, inevitably, those that usually pay for it with their lives are not the political and military leaders, but the civilians and the front-line soldiers.

For this morning, I remember those that died at Hiroshima and I reflect on mankind's penchant for conflict and, yes, for war.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

WWII was total war, military and civilians were targets. Hopefully, we'll never have another one ever again. War is horrible, we do unimaginable things to each other. To charge the US government with a war crime is unjust. Let's not forget, Japan started the war, and the Japanese military was just as brutal. It's my opinion that the bombs saved more lives then it ended. No apology necessary.

9 ( +14 / -5 )

@notasap you are the only one myth making here today. Nuking hundreds of thousands of innocent women and children murdered hundreds of thousands and saved no one. Given that the Russian "August Storm" campaign ended the war, no invasion would ever have taken place. As the USSBS concluded:

"….in all probability prior to 1 November 1945, Japan would have surrendered even if the atomic bombs had not been dropped, even if Russia had not entered the war, and even if no invasion had been planned or contemplated."

-The United States Strategic Bombing Survey 1946

-3 ( +8 / -11 )

The nuking of H&N was the most disgusting and cowardly war crime ever committed. I oh id say the starvation and gasing of 6 million Jews in Nazi death camps, there hair / teeth clothing , money, belongings removed to fuel Hiltlers war machined, the majority of whom were women and children. Id say that takes the honor of the most heinious war crimes ever committed. The Jewish people lost twice as many as Japan, with a fraction the population at the time. The majority of Japan was targeted to slow the IJA from manufacturing product to supply there war mongering. The Jews were purely targeted because of there race and religion, it doenst get more racist than that. WW2 was so much bigger that just the Abombs

3 ( +9 / -7 )

One of the most disgusting, cowardly and gratuitous acts of mass violence against a civilian population in the Pacific War era was the Philippine Genocide exemplified by General Jacob Smith and his "kill all" order. The human experiments on children during the Guatemala Syphilis Experiment and similar American operations rank up there in crimes against humanity.

-1 ( +8 / -9 )

Appeal of President Franklin D. Roosevelt on Aerial Bombardment of Civilian Populations, September 1, 1939

The President of the United States to the Governments of France, Germany, Italy, Poland and His Britannic Majesty, September 1, 1939

The ruthless bombing from the air of civilians in unfortified centers of population during the course of the hostilities which have raged in various quarters of the earth during the past few years, which has resulted in the maiming and in the death of thousands of defenseless men, women, and children, has sickened the hearts of every civilized man and woman, and has profoundly shocked the conscience of humanity.

If resort is had to this form of inhuman barbarism during the period of the tragic conflagration with which the world is now confronted, hundreds of thousands of innocent human beings who have no responsibility for, and who are not even remotely participating in, the hostilities which have now broken out, will lose their lives. I am therefore addressing this urgent appeal to every government which may be engaged in hostilities publicly to affirm its determination that its armed forces shall in no event, and under no circumstances, undertake the bombardment from the air of civilian populations or of unfortified cities, upon the understanding that these same rules of warfare will be scrupulously observed by all of their opponents. I request an immediate reply.

FRANKLIN D. ROOSEVELT

0 ( +3 / -4 )

@notasap"The A-bombs saved Japanese lives" OMG. This sort of ultimate, cynical idiocy could be invented only in the United States of America for uneducated sons of farmers.

@Ishiwara "to this form of inhuman barbarism" FRANKLIN D.ROOSVELT

Best quote.

-2 ( +7 / -10 )

Whether the atomic bombing of Hiroshima was justified or not. I've visited the Hiroshima Peace Memorial and the Children of Hiroshima memorial exhibit was one of the most emotional things I've ever looked at and listened to. Being there made me wish that these weapons would never be used again. Because the devastation and anguish that they bring are truly horrible.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

*The human experiments on children during the Guatemala Syphilis Experiment and similar American operations rank up there in crimes against humanity. lol so f blind some people,* The IJA conquest of asia eterminating millions, many of whom were women and children, the human experiments , the inhuman treatment of POWs (against the Geneva convention) the 1000s of suicides of Japanase civilians due to the brainwashing of the IJA all in the name of the emperor. Its funny how all these J nationalist rarely make a mention of the many many wars crimes committed by the IJA, instead prefering to pass the blame onto America. Apart from Hitlers war crimes against the jews only the IJA are there equal, 40million+ civilians lost there live during WW2 the vast majority slaughter by Hitler and the IJA

0 ( +4 / -4 )

@wtfjapan "The IJA conquest of Asia"

What 'the IJA conquest' has to do with the infamous war crimes committed by Americans in Japan?

-5 ( +4 / -10 )

There was a former Japanese PM who decided no more poltical life. He traveled all over in the world and preached no more A bombs and he received Nobel Peace Prize as a first Japanese. Until then japan was well known for its ambition to conqueor World, Victim? Never.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

The American conquest of Asia exterminated millions, many of whom were women and children, the human experiments, the inhuman treatment of POWs (contrary to the Geneva convention the US ratified) the murders of surrendering Japanese civilians due to the brainwashing of the US troops that all Japanese were "vermin". It`s funny how all these A nationalists rarely make mention of the many war crimes committed by the US military, instead preferring to pass blame onto Japan. America has murdered 55 to 60 million lives due to US foreign invasions.

-5 ( +7 / -12 )

The Japanese Navy was destroyed. The Army was intact in the Main Land. Not only we did our self a favor. We did them a favor as well.War they started instantly ended immediately.

-1 ( +11 / -11 )

Which is more humane, the Hitler gas chambers or the Truman nukes?

-7 ( +5 / -12 )

asdfgtr...what an anti-american you are....you seem to think the USA was on the axis in WWII...your excuse of the war of aggression waged by Japan puts you in a strange place, though not as lonely as it use to be, where you try to cheery-pick history to prove the aggressor, Japan, was actually the victim. Japan got what was coming and every single one of the deaths in that war, be they military or civilian, lay at the feet of the Japanese government.

0 ( +7 / -7 )

What 'the IJA conquest' has to do with the infamous war crimes committed by Americans in Japan? firstly there were no so called infamous American war crimes as nobody has the right to convict them of it, and certainly not opinions of a defeated warmongering nation that Japan once was. There were 1000s of IJA/Nazi officers that gave the orders to kill civilians, only 66 Germans and a few dozen Japanese officers were ever convicted. The IJA/Nazi foot soldiers are the ones that did the actually killing, nearly all were never convicted. Japan has no right to point fingers unless they were guilt free themselves. The killing of Japanese civilians and soldiers during WW2 were the indirect result of the attrocities committed by the IJA in the name of the emperor, Americas destruction of Japan was to halt/ destroy its ability to make war and conquer the entire pacific region, which it did.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

One can tell how bad the world is today that we have people who seem to think that the USA was the evil entity in Pacific War. That the IJA was on the side of good. How sad that the internet, instead of bringing us credible information and rational debate has instead become the home for the unhinged and lunatic fringe....who put Hitler on par with Truman and who seem to overlook the causes for the conflict over how it was brought to an end.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

**America has murdered 55 to 60 million lives due to US foreign invasions

.** LMFAO were are you facts show me some links to reputable sites!? No because there are none and your figures are just made up, in the last 500yrs no war has claimed more lives that WW2, other than Hitlers slaugther of millions of European , Soviets, English Americans etc, only the IJA etermination of asian is almost its equal. Theres plenty of factual information about this , google it. Im certainly no Amercian nationalist as im not even American.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

I am afraid that I will disappoint many but the capitulation of Japan is not related to atomic bombing ( after the destruction of more than 65 towns in less than 3 months , Japanese govenment didn't give a F... as the number of deads in Hiroshima was less than other attacks) but to the Soviet Union declaration of war followed by the invasion of Sakhalin and Mandchouria on August 9...Just that day , that the Emperor and council decided an extraordinary meeting at the end of which they decided to capitulate ....Before the second bombing of Nagasaki...On August 6, the day of Hiroshima bombing , they even didn't care to organize a meeting... Then , it serves the Japanese to take advantage of the nuclear attack to tell the public that because of an extraordinary new weapon they decided to stop the war...A good excuse. However strategically Imperial Army couldn't fight on 2 fronts with Soviet troops ready to invade Hokkaido within 10 days... On the US side, it was controversial to use the bomb, because most the objectives were already destroyed without any concrete results for ending the war ( by the way, same results in Germany, no result in terms of decreasing the support of civilians to the Nazi government or Army by bombing them...)

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Which is more humane, the Hitler gas chambers or the Truman nukes? WASFQ thats like saying Which is more humane, being decapitated by sword or a bullet to the head? let me rephrase your question. Which killed more, Hitlers gas chambers or the Trumans nukes?

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

What 'the IJA conquest' has to do with the infamous war crimes committed by Americans in Japan?

War crimes? What goes around, comes back to you. Weren't you guy the ones who started the war in the first. You can dish it out, but can't take it when these arguments come back to you.

1 ( +7 / -6 )

@wtfjapan"there were no so called infamous Americans war crimes as nobody has the right to convict"

If you had no history lessons in your high school, I can say it again : there were certain American war crimes in Japan. Fire bombings of Japanese cities and nuclear bombings of civilian population of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. People of the world have a right to call a spade a spade. So, when we are talking about American war crimes in Japan, please, do not divert the discussion into "IJA conquest of Asia". Americans have a rich history of bullying of small and weak countries. They burnt to ashes villages in Filippines "with all NI GERS"(as they called local people in reports and dyaries).They tried "to bomb Vietnam people into Stone Age"(again, American term).

-1 ( +9 / -10 )

This day we should reconsider whether America should be our allie.

-6 ( +5 / -11 )

Lest we forget, a goodly number the A-bombs' victims were Korean forced laborers. This is from Wikipedia:

"During the war, Japan brought as many as 670,000 Korean conscripts to Japan to work as forced labor.[257] About 20,000 Koreans were killed in Hiroshima and another 2,000 died in Nagasaki. Perhaps one in seven of the Hiroshima victims were of Korean ancestry. For many years, Koreans had a difficult time fighting for recognition as atomic bomb victims and were denied health benefits. Most issues have been addressed in recent years through lawsuits."

In 2005 the Japanese Supreme Court ruled that discrimination against non-Japanese hibakusha was illegal.

This means that for 60 years the Japanese government got away with discrimination against Korean A-bomb victims who had been forced laborers. This should put the cult Japanese victimization in proper perspective.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

there were certain American war crimes in Japan. war crimes in the eyes of a few minorities. America has never been convicted of WW2 war crimes and very doubtfully ever will, these are one of the privileges of being victors in war, always has been probably always will. so you can speculate all you want, opinionate all you want. The fact still remains America commited no wars crimes during WW2 and has not been convicted by any international body for those these crimes. end of story

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

The most disgusting, cowardly and gratuitous act of mass violence against a civilian population in the Pacific War era was the Rape of Nanjing. The human experiments at Unit 731 and similar facilities rank up there in crimes against humanity.

And so the atrocities committed by the Japanese Imperial Army justify the use of A-bombs on civilians. Good logic you have there.

This aside, the A-bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki followed established military procedure, used by Allies and Axis powers, in bombing civilian populations, basically for the purpose of demoralizing them (which did not work, as later studies showed). Fifty percent of all deaths in WWII were noncombatants.

I see. Mass-murdering Japanese civilians is indeed a well-justified act.

Had Truman not used the A-bomb he would have been blamed for every G.I. death after its manufacture. If either Germany or Japan had built an A-bomb they would have used it on us.

But because the bombs murdered Japanese civilians who for some reason happened to live in the country which lost the war, he was never blamed for authorizing the mass murders in August that year.

It would have been nice if the US had dropped the A-bomb is some isolated place to scare the Japanese military elite. Problems were that the US did not know if the bomb would work, they did not have many A-bombs and to be convincing they needed gore.

And once again, we come to square one. Ignorance of the possible results paraded as an excuse for the bombings. But then, how does that stand in the eyes of the people who know that prior to the fire-bombing of Tokyo the American government knew fully well what the fire carpeting would cause?

0 ( +8 / -8 )

@wtfjapan"America committed no war crimes". Perhaps, 9/11 hijackers committed no crimes too?

0 ( +5 / -5 )

This day we should reconsider whether America should be our allie.

Heck. You ought to be grateful for having an ally such as US. Do you think the Chinese, Koreans, N Koreans, russians etc. . give two bits? Worse, do average japanese people give two bits about foreign diplomacy with the countries just mentioned?

1 ( +7 / -6 )

' Paul Tibbets, who piloted the Enola Gay, said he never had any second thoughts about dropping the bomb, telling a newspaper in an interview in 2002, five years before his death: “I knew we did the right thing”.'

I don't think I could have done this. He's a courageous man who ended atrocities by savages: sex slavery, experiments on live human beings (Unit 731), massacring (Nanjing), ...

Thank you Mr. Tibbets! You are a hero to all victims of Japan, including some innocent Japanese victims.

-1 ( +6 / -7 )

America has murdered 55 to 60 million lives due to US foreign invasions. Figures cited by MIT professor emeritus Noam Chomsky in "On Western Terrorism".

1 ( +8 / -7 )

As I read the back and forth regarding who committed war crimes, was the atomic bombing justified, etc. etc., I am reminded once again of the dangers of not accurately remembering history and learning from it.

When Japan chose to attack Pearl Harbor and simultaneously engage with Allied forces across Asia in December 1941, it let slip the dogs of war and lit the fuse that ultimately culminated in the events of August 1945. There are, of course, the arguments that Japan had no choice, that the U.S. had advance of knowledge of the attack on Pearl Harbor and did nothing to stop it, etc. Nevertheless, it was Japan that chose to take action and become the aggressor.

I was reminded of that in my last visit to the USS Arizona Memorial in Hawaii, watching the drops of oil bubble to the surface from a ship where the bodies of many men remain entombed. Soldiers, yes, but soldier at peace that were quietly going about their business on a peaceful Sunday morning when that peace was shattered and their lives were ended forever. Not unlike that morning in Hiroshima.

Having lit that fuse, Japan put itself in a position of having only itself to blame for the consequences of its actions. To include the suffering its people had to endure. That is not meant to excuse actions taken in the war that were horrific in scale and nature, but once war is unleashed, it becomes hell for all involved. Particularly in history.

I feel sympathy for and remember the people of Hiroshima whose lives were ended or altered forever on that morning 70 years ago. They were the victims of the war, a war the leaders of their country started. However, Japan itself as a country was not a victim. It was the recipient of the natural outcome of events when it let slip the dogs of war.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

Wc626"You ought to be grateful for having an ally such as US."

We ought to be grateful for having a cowardly bully who constantly abuse small and weak countries as ally, right? Are you serious or just trolling? "Do you think the Chinese, Koreans, N.Koreans, russians give two bits?"

Yes and I would choose Russians. They have no fear and simply despise you. When you had demanded to extradict that fugitive Snowden, they laughed at your faces. When you declared economical sanctions to Russia, they laughed at your angered faces once again. And - they love Japanese people, culture, custom and they are enough brave and strong to organize a thousand of 'Hiroshims' right on your soil in case of a global war.

-1 ( +7 / -8 )

9/11 hijackers committed no crimes too? since when was 9/11 a "war crime"! a crime yes and there have been people who have been convicted of those crimes. Like in most democratic country your innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. ill state it again America has not been convicted of any WW2 war crime and most probably never will. everthing else is just opinions and speculation. If you dont like it then you should lobby the Japanese gov on the matter to bring America to justice, Japan is after all a democratic country. Good luck with that.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

@notasap: One can tell how bad the world is today that we have people who seem to think that the USA was the evil entity in Pacific War.

And one can tell how “good” the world is today that we have people who seem to believe the propaganda about all the good the American foreign policy and the American military have done to the world in the past 70 years.

…That the IJA was on the side of good.

Nobody is saying that. Everybody knows that the IJA committed crimes against humanity in Asia. However, there are people who obviously believe in the American governments’ propaganda about the necessity of the A-bombs and the bombings saving lives. Such people obviously find it impossible to accept the fact that had the USA lost the war, the Truman’s government might be on the receiving side of the war-crime accusations. Now, some of those people brag that the bombings saved Japanese lives, too.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

Americans (USA) is the nation that has killed the most people in their short period of existence. Actually I don't think that there was a single period that they where not at war with someone.

As impressive is all the unification of the population in USA and all the remarkable things they have done as disgusting are all their leaders.

0 ( +6 / -6 )

they love Japanese people, culture, custom and they are enough brave and strong to organize a thousand of 'Hiroshims' right on your soil in case of a global war.

So when's the party? I'm tired of the obama administration.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

@Jefflee: I always think of the roughly 10 million people who lost their lives from Japan's Asian adventure, including lots of (non-Japanese) children.

Do you honestly believe that the A-bombs were dropped because the Truman’s government gave a d*** for the Asian people killed or forced into labor by the IJA?

@Jefflee: But then, I'm fairly well-read on the topic, and don't need to resort to knee-jerk emotions generated by a rapacious and meticulously organized victimization industry that strips away the awkward historical context.

Here is one more interesting read for you http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-33754931

Regarding the “meticulously organized victimization industry, “ as it has been the case for so many years since the war ended, it is not the Japanese who blame the US government of the time. They do not ask for apologies either. It is non-Japanese like me who do not buy into the justifications of saving lives by killing hundreds of thousands of civilians, etc.

@wtfjapan: What 'the IJA conquest' has to do with the infamous war crimes committed by Americans in Japan? firstly there were no so called infamous American war crimes as nobody has the right to convict them of it, and certainly not opinions of a defeated warmongering nation that Japan once was.

True. As long as the US is on the winning side everybody has to believe that their actions are exemplary.

There were 1000s of IJA/Nazi officers that gave the orders to kill civilians, only 66 Germans and a few dozen Japanese officers were ever convicted. The IJA/Nazi foot soldiers are the ones that did the actually killing, nearly all were never convicted. Japan has no right to point fingers unless they were guilt free themselves.

As previously mentioned on numerous threads, the Japanese themselves do not point fingers and do not blame the US government at the time and not even any other US governments following the WWII. It is non-Japanese who do so.

The killing of Japanese civilians and soldiers during WW2 were the indirect result of the attrocities committed by the IJA in the name of the emperor,

Right. Yet, you seem to disregard the reasons why Japan attacked the United States despite the fact that those reasons have been described by both non-Japanese and Japanese historians.

Americas destruction of Japan was to halt/ destroy its ability to make war and conquer the entire pacific region, which it did.

Because otherwise the US would not have been able to settle in the Pacific and defend its strategic interests here. But I do love the hypocrisy which seems to run up to this day. America’s destruction of peaceful (though authoritarian) Middle-East states has also been all for the good of humanity, right?

1 ( +6 / -5 )

it is a sad moment in history, one article from other sources said the japanese invasion of asia was justified for they liberated asia from western imperialism - which is a total nonsense.

japan only remember her own people died from the war, but never try an attempt to remember the tragedies they caused in beginning the war, let alone in slaughtering millions of innocent civilians, under the IJA barbaric objectives.

japan still misses one piece of the story, perhaps a more noble one. and an incomplete story is a boring one to follow.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Now Americans want me to thank them for killing all of my cousins, uncles and aunts. Some were killed after the surrender of Okinawa by the Americans. Americans want Japanese to thank them for the atomic bombs which saved Japanese lives. Suppose I just do not understand the twisted western mind. I can understand why they would be upset with Japan's wartime leaders but in those days it was to obey the authorities or be arrested. The prewar democracy was long dead by the time of Pearl Harbor. So the common person had many enemies which included the American and Japanese governments. Now the US government wants Japan to fight their wars for them. Sorry Sam! We will not fight your wars! I will NEVER agree with the American war crimes!

3 ( +10 / -7 )

If Japan had atomic bombs in its possession in 1945, bombing of HIROSHIMA AND NAGASAKI would not have taken place at all.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

BurgundyAUG. 06, 2015 - 11:00AM JST I am afraid that I will disappoint many but the capitulation of Japan is not related to atomic bombing ( after the destruction of more than 65 towns in less than 3 months , Japanese govenment didn't give a F... as the number of deads in Hiroshima was less than other attacks) but to the Soviet Union declaration of war followed by the invasion of Sakhalin and Mandchouria on August 9...Just that day , that the Emperor and council decided an extraordinary meeting at the end of which they decided to capitulate ....Before the second bombing of Nagasaki...On August 6, the day of Hiroshima bombing , they even didn't care to organize a meeting...

If Truman was serious about saving lives he would've tried those alternatives before resorting to the atomic bomb. It's funny how the atomic bombs were dropped on August 6 and August 9 when Truman knew that Russia would declare war on Japan on August 9. In an interview to "The New York Times" in 1946, Albert Einstein believed that Truman deliberately used atomic bombs to try and end WWII before Russia could get involved. And indeed, by looking at those dates the only logical explanation for Truman to drop the atomic bombs on civilian cities so close to Russia's intervention was to intimidate Russia.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

And, this thread has officially deteriorated into a shouting match.

It is strange to hear people justify nuclear weapons by saying things like ;

Well if the US hadn't use them first, someone else would have. There were worse atrocities during the war. It's the Imperial Army's fault. The bombings saved lives. Japan started the war.

To me, you've absolutely missed the point. we should all be here to pay our respects to the victims of mankind's worst moments in history. Just as we pause on the anniversary of VE Day to remember the millions of Jews that were killed, why we pause on yet another day to remember those killed in Pearl Harbour.

Regardless of the narrative you were taught to believe, it's time to recognize that the Atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were mistakes of mankind never to be repeated again.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

@mike wyckoff

Yeah, right? I was just saying I felt bad for the kids in Hiroshima that were killed, nothing else beyond that. And somehow my thoughts were turned into me trying to whitewash what Japan had done to everyone else (thanks @JeffLee) in previous wars or whatnot or another endless debate about the dropping of the bomb.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Right. Yet, you seem to disregard the reasons why Japan attacked the United States despite the fact that those reasons have been described by both non-Japanese and Japanese historians.

whatever the reasons Japan decided to attack it Pearl Harbour, it was an overreaction.. Japans military at the time was far superior than anything America had and only 2nd to Hitlers. By attacking the US it made a country that had the 17th largest economy, 6th largest military, become the largest in both within 6yrs. So in many ways Japan created the monster that is the US today

1 ( +4 / -3 )

"Now Americans want me to thank them for killing all of my cousins, uncles and aunts."

I am not talking about killing some innocent Japanese people. I am talking about the needed nuking to stop the savages from committing atrocities (sex slavery, massacring, experimenting on live human beings, and more).

If you can understand that rubbing salt into wounds hurts, don't rub salt into wounds of the war victims by whitewashing or denying Japanese savagery/history. Learn to be shameful of your parents and grandparents. However, put the past as is, and learn to Move On.

The nuking of Japan saved Asia from the savages. That's why Asian countries should be grateful to the US.

-6 ( +4 / -10 )

@wtfjapan: whatever the reason Japan decided to attack it Pearl Harbour, it was an overreaction.

And the A-bombs were not, to say the least, right?

so in many ways Japan created the monster that is the US today.

Ha ha ha. Yeah. Blame the losers for everything. The American foreign policy is also Japan's fault, I see.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

If Americans left Japan and wait, that would have been enough.

What has to be weighed in the balance is the fate of thousands of POWs in Japan. The IJA had orders to kill them in the event of an invasion. And if the atom bombs had not been used - and the IJA decided to surrender - it's possible the POWs would likely have been killed before it happened.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Yamashi: Americans have a rich history of bullying of small and weak countries."

Says the winger who favors historical revision and denies atrocities, which make the holocaust look minor, that Japan committed.

I believe the ombings were war crimes, but don't say people can't talk about Japan's atrocities and "calling a spade a spade" with such hypocrisy and false information (lies). You talk about Aamericans burning a village in the Philippines but demand we not mention the order by Japanese generals to liquidate the population, and the massacres that ensued, when retreating?

Comments and beliefs like yours are how some Americans justify the bombings, my friend, and are certainly indicative you never learned from it. It should be a moment to mark peace and reflect on the horrors of war, not to play victim and deny Japan's role in how things resulted.

0 ( +7 / -7 )

The arguement of 'it was justified / it wasn't justified' will rage on for as long as we are alive and the results will always be the same. America used what was on hand at the time to stop the war.......please for one second don't tell me that Japan would not have used an atomic bomb at that time if they had access to it.

It surprises me also how the Japanese constantly ask at this time of year 'why did this happen' and at the same time sweep atrocities such as the Rape of Nanjing under the carpet as if it never happened.

Do the Japanese people as a whole have any idea what road their current leader is trying to lead them down? The path he is walking on isn't pretty

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

@yuri otani: Now Americans want me to thank them for killing all of my cousins, uncles and aunts. Some were killed after the surrender of Okinawa by the Americans. Americans want Japanese to thank them for the atomic bombs which saved Japanese lives.

Yuri, it is not all the Americans, just some. As it happens, quite often they are the ones who criticize the Japanese for accepting the non-sense of their latest government/s and demand that Japanese right wingers stop whitewashing history.

@ossan: notasapAug. 06, 2015 - 07:41AM JST The bombs saved many many many Japanese lives. Reply: While this often repeated statement may very well be true, it seems rather irrelevant as Japanese lives meant nothing to us at the time. An honest representation would be that it most likely saved a great many American lives.

Thank you for the honesty and not being afraid to give things real names.

@big poppa: To charge the US government with a war crime is unjust.

Nobody is trying to charge the US with a war crime. However, people get upset because of the justifications the post-war US governments have made and still present as valid reasons for the A-bombings. And because those justifications are paraded by some who say that the Japanese play the victim card, etc. while, in fact, it is not the Japanese who see the actions of the US governments as hypocritical.

@big poppa: It's my opinion that the bombs saved more lives then it ended.

I wonder how many mothers would have been happy to know that their children would be killed or crippled in order to save lives and end the war.

@ big poppa: No apology necessary.

Again, the Japanese are not asking you to apologize. And just a few westerners have talked about apologies but as they are a third party in this discussion their opinions could be dismissed by both the US and Japan. The problem, again, is not about apologies but about the “sanitized narrative” of the US people in power.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

I completely share the idea that the bomb was not intended to speed up the capitulation of Japan but to intimidate Soviet Union...In this case, why 2 bombs , I am puzzled about the motivations...except some sordid scientifical reasons because one was made of Uranium and the other of Plutonium and well... scientifics like to compare... The negative aspect of the bomb ( outside of the casualties ) is that the Japanese goverment of this time could escape some responsabilities by appearing as a victim of the war ( whereas they didn't care about the Japanese population and more specifically the civilians) and at the same time have a good excuse for the Japanese population to accept the capitulation.However nobody should forget that Japan Imperial Army was the main instrument of the war in Asia and its atrocities. The other BIG negative aspect is that it started the nuclear bomb race between the superpowers which is still lasting ( for me the worst consequence)... A positive (indirect) aspect of the bomb for Japan is that they could avoid the occupation of Japan by soviet troops . I am sure that Staline was ready to occupy half of Japan as they did in Eastern Europe for a long long time... So surely Americans are not saints ( nobody is...) and had various ( grey ...) motivations .but Japan should not escape its responsabilities with the excuse of the nuclear bomb, and stop appearing as a victim

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Come on, lets bring justice. Drag US goverment to the war tribunal for this inhuman atomic bombing.

-1 ( +6 / -7 )

I don't know why people keep quoting 6 million Jews were murdered. Lots of evidence indicates 1.5-2 million. That is about the same as Nagasaki, Hiroshima and the Tokyo Firebombings...both targeting civilians. Targeting civilians is the most cowardly act, apar to the suicide bombings of marketplaces after the Us invasion, or crashing planes into WTC.

-5 ( +4 / -9 )

'Yes and I would choose Russians. They have no fear and simply despise you. When you had demanded to extradict that fugitive Snowden, they laughed at your faces. When you declared economical sanctions to Russia, they laughed at your angered faces once again. And - they love Japanese people, culture, custom and they are enough brave and strong to organize a thousand of 'Hiroshims' right on your soil in case of a global war.'

Try telling the Russians to return the islands you no doubt regard as Japan's and see how far the Russians love Japan. Russia or the US? Either would entertain you as far as it is useful to them. Russia and China are looking more likely to become bosom buddies.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

I think the important thing to remember is that you can't really question whether it was justified taking into account the context. There was no moral authority or anything like that back in WW2, all nations were barbaric and inhumane compared to today. There's no point trying to question why no one back then had the same morals as we do today because no one did. It's like questioning whether Romans thought gladiator fights were moral or whether inbred Southern slavers thought slaver was justified. Of course they did

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Hey Matsui, Japan was also an absolute evil back then and needed to be stopped. If Japan had gotten the chance, it wouldn't have hesitated in dropping an A-bomb on the U.S., and you know it.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

I don't agree that the bombs were dropped to end the war faster. There is plenty of evidence that Japan was willing to surrender and accept the vast majority of the Allies' demands, including occupation for a time. The main sticking point apparently was the issue of whether Japan would remain a monarchy or become a republic. Some Americans didn't want to even offer that concession before the surrender, despite the fact later on Japan was allowed to retain its monarch.

Really it was about showing the Soviet Union that the US was number 1 and telling it to back off. It's just a shame that the US can't admit that's the real reason the bombs were dropped.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

all these so called experts taking the moral high ground, it was over 70yrs ago a different time in a brutal war, probably nobody on here was there and didnt experience it so really dont have any right to puts todays values on the people of that time. the majority of gaijin think the Abomb were justified, the majority of Japanese think they werent. I doubt that mindset will change anytime soon. So speculate opinionate debate all you want it wont change much except maybe your increased dislike of America, which most Americans couldnt care less anyways.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

One thing about the Soviet Union. The violation of the Japan-Soviet peace treaty and the invasion of Japanese held territory was agreed upon at Yalta. The Soviet Union took back territory in lost to Japan in 1905 and took all of the Kurils and helped liberate Manchuria. The did not keep Manchuria. The Soviet Union had lost some 30,000,000 people and suffered extensive war damage. They was no way they would have considered getting into a fight with the US. They had gotten a satisfactory postwar package (more or less) at yalta.

Whatever else was on Truman's mind, I believe he his first priority was to end the war by any means necessary. The Allies were done fighting in Europe and thousands of troops were coming home from there. The Atlantic war was over and that put pressure on Truman to get it over with in the Pacific. Many high-end military people would later criticize Truman for dropping the bombs. Yet none begged not to do it as far as I know.

Japan was in August 1945 desperate. Yet, like in one grotesque Monty Python sketch, the central government was intent on fighting. Because the Imperial Palace was not leveled and the nearby Army and Navy headquarters were spared, Hirohito and the crew of military fanatics could live a rarified life. They did not personally see the suffering of the Japanese, though they might see the smoke from the ruins of Tokyo's working class districts. In this rarified life they made rarified choices. Japan should fight on and shatter like a jewel and so forth.

Was there an alternative to the A-bombs. I said it is possible that we could have ended the war sooner by striking central command in Tokyo. Possibly we would have needed the A-bombs, the tragedy of Okinawa would not have happened and many cities could have been spared conventional bombings. But I don't know. Bombing out cities in Europe seemed effective (it wasn't) and so this is what the Allied forced prescribed for Japan.

The ultimate blame for all the war's evils fall on the Japanese militarists and their supporters for starting the war.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

the majority of gaijin think the Abomb were justified

Americans don't speak for the entire non-Japanese global population.

Cheers.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

don't know why people keep quoting 6 million Jews were murdered. Lots of evidence indicates 1.5-2 million. That is about the same as Nagasaki, Hiroshima and the Tokyo Firebombings...both targeting civilians

. there plenty of sources stating this fact, 2 million is at the very low end of the estimates. Nearly all targets in Japan had some form of military manufacturing taking place, Americas main goal was to stop Japan making guns, bombs, fuel for its military. its almost impossible to seperate the military targets from the civilians. Aerial bombing in 1945 was very inaccurate, less than 10%. It took 100s of planes bombing together to have any chance of hitting targets

Hitlers extermination of the Jews was purely racist and genocide, here wanted to exterminate them because he despised there race / religious beliefs. The herding, processing, slaughter of Jews was very different to the bombing of the Japanese mainland.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

The nuking of H&N was the most disgusting and cowardly war crime ever committed. It was little more than a brutal and cynical live human experiment on women and children. The depravity and racism of the US government and military is apparent from Harry Truman`s demented giggling prior to his announcement of the mass murders at Hiroshima:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d42dMSAltnQ

See Kermit Beahan gloat as he claims responsibility for nuking the women and children of Nagasaki:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdJyOBriLTI

As Brig. Gen. Carter W. Clarke, the officer in charge of preparing MAGIC intercepted cable summaries in 1945, stated:

"….we brought them [the Japanese] down to an abject surrender through the accelerated sinking of their merchant marine and hunger alone, and when we didn't need to do it, and we knew we didn't need to do it, and they knew that we knew we didn't need to do it, we used them as an experiment for two atomic bombs."

@asdfgtr Thanks for the links. This just proves that the atomic bombs weren't necessary to end the war, but the evil Americans in charge decided to go ahead with it anyway. It's just totally diabolical.

What I don't understand is why anyone would thumb down your post. It's most likely from blindly patriotic, wide-eyed, red-white-and-blue flag waving jingoistic Americans--those in the military especially--who think their government can do no wrong. For what the US has done then, and what it continues to do now around the world, is just utterly despicable, and Americans who continue to support their government are just as complicit in their heinous acts. How these people can sleep at night without any guilt is beyond me. They ought to be ashamed of themselves for supporting such evil in this world.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

I posted this on another article.. I will post it here to just for the sake of it since it expresses well what I view of this...

"The bombings were not necessary, Japan had nearly depleted its natural resources and was losing the fight.

Japan was going to be defeated and America knew it, also Hiroshima and Nagasaki were hardly worthy targets of an attack if the goal was to indeed win the war.

The only true reason they bombed Japan was to see the effects it would have on humas (hence the planes had cameras and such to study the population).

As soon as the first bomb exploded the US President warned the Soviet leader to back off from West Germany, as the USA and major EUropean powers were worried that the Soviet Union was preparing to exert greater influence in the West of Germany and therefore Europe.

The first bomb was basically a warning, the second was just to show off they had more..

Racism played a certain elemet in to it as the USA thought "They're just Japs" therefore felt it to be acceptable to use Japanese people like lab rats.

Important to notice that Germans were much less harshly treated than the Japanese, war criminals included. With many German nazis having escaped punishment rather easily."

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Woe, lots of anti-American sentiment. I wonder if Japan had the bomb would they have used it. Sure they would let's not forget the sneak attack on Pearl Harbor I guess no civilians died there right? Nope war is hell and I pray that the a-bomb is never uesd again. Today lets pray for the poor souls who died and leave the debate for another time.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

So here we stand 70 years after and are still awed by how physics ended bigscale conflicts?

Humanity was assaulted in that war and progress brought it to an abrupt halt.

And these days we reflect by another progressonal innovation about those old days.

May we all rummage those events and hopefully keep the new possible on a positive track.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Late to board, just got back from my crusade on CNN and CBS board, it was this very news. Nevertheless better late than never as they say.

@asdfgtr, notasap, Ishiwara, TheTiger' wtfjapan, yamashi, JaneM, siniestro, YuriOtani. Well said, I couldn't agree any more, never thought such great people existed on JapanToday, It seems all the good posts are the ones with 2 or more minuses, i suppose JapanToday has lots of pro American users.

Sone say "The Japanese had been seeking ways to surrender for several months before the bombing, knowing full well that their defeat was imminent." Perhaps they wanted to surrender, perhaps not.

The fact is, the US known very well the destructive nature of the Atomic bombs, (they've already tested similar atomic bombs in the deserts or Mexico prier to the mission on Japan)

Knowing full well of the destructive power that the atomic bombs possessed, the Einstein in charge of dropping the bombs decided to detonate them a few hundred feets above ground.

Unfortunately those carrying out the "mission" lacked any true brains. It would have been wiser to drop the first bomb on an unpopulated area of Japan, I am sure many smaller settlements, smaller than the 350,000: Population of Hiroshima existed. The sheer raw of the blast would have been enough to gain the surrender that the US desired.

The true mission was to see the adverse effects Atomic Nuclear weapons had on fellow human beings, who would have thought such devilish people existed, I feel a sense of disgrace that my extended familys are Americans, you will often see that I fail my upkeep of communications with them, the last correspondence was 25 years ago, their as good as dead to me, they've refused the offer to migrate to Briton and drop their American heritage.

Every and any place the Americans had invaded under their "war on terror" BS have been left worst off, the so called "war on terror" has killed over 5.7 Million and counting. The US have armed and funded IS, trained Bin ladan, the resaults 9:11 need I say more?

asdfgtr "Nuking hundreds of thousands of woman and children saved no lives. It is simply a laughable myth invented by the US government used to justify cynical and cowardly war crimes. Those who try to justify nuking children are similar to the Nazis who try to justify gassing Jews"

That's the gospel truth, I love your post, you've got guts to speak the truth, you've earned my respect.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Small scale, as you might call it after that, is more of a concern these days, And there is just no prpgress.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@Jimizo "Try telling the Russians to return the islands"

Putin already offered two of four islands and besides it he said that all four disputed islands can be free for joint settlements under joint administration. But American masters immediately pulled the chain and loyal Abe cut off all negotiations. Seems, that you know only island issue. And you have no idea about regular days of Japanese culture in Russian cities, about great festivals of Japanese martial arts on Russian soil. Are you American? Speaking about islands,please, clean Okinawa off your presence as soon as possible!

2 ( +4 / -2 )

The Japanese military came very very very close to a coup against the Emperor to stop the surrender and the US had pledged to not accept a conditional surrender many times, but did accept this one just to spite the USSR. The atomic bombs gave the Emperor an excuse to surrender and saved millions of Japanese lives. Japan suffered less than 1/10th of the deaths it inflicted on the countries it attacked, and every month the war went on would be another month of a 100,000 Japanese deaths and 200,000 non-Japanese deaths.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

The violation of the Japan-Soviet peace treaty and the invasion of Japanese held territory was agreed upon at Yalta. The Soviet Union took back territory in lost to Japan in 1905 and took all of the Kurils and helped liberate Manchuria. The did not keep Manchuria. The Soviet Union had lost some 30,000,000 people and suffered extensive war damage. They was no way they would have considered getting into a fight with the US. They had gotten a satisfactory postwar package (more or less) at yalta.

To Russian minds that was payback for Japan's undeclared war against Russia from 1904-05) The Yalta agreement happened before relations with the Soviet Union went sour - and at that point the allies needed the Soviet Union as a way to stretch Japan's forces. The allies didn't have the atom bomb yet at that point also.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Remember. Never again.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

"and every month the war went on would be another month of a 100,000 Japanese deaths and 200,000 non-Japanese deaths." Not one more, not one less.

If there is a more brainwashed, patriotically dumb and thin skinned people than the septics then i've yet to meet them. Meanwhile they are critical on here of nearly of nearly everything to do with Japan as soon as people say anything against their country they get upset.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

@JohnY921

I am not talking about killing some innocent Japanese people. I am talking about the needed nuking to stop the savages from committing atrocities (sex slavery, massacring, experimenting on live human beings, and more).

If you can understand that rubbing salt into wounds hurts, don't rub salt into wounds of the war victims by whitewashing or denying Japanese savagery/history. Learn to be shameful of your parents and grandparents. However, put the past as is, and learn to Move On.

The nuking of Japan saved Asia from the savages. That's why Asian countries should be grateful to the US.

I can't believe you typed that in response to YuriOtani's comment... I have never seen so much vile, heartless crap on here.

No-one is disputing what the Japanese did during the war... this discussion is about the use of Atomic Weapons on a city full of civilians and the rather pathetic justification for it. Very few people outside of America subscribe to your country's views... my own country's Air Force fire bombed Dresden... we certainly aren't proud of it.

Finally can I just ask people to get a couple of things straight?

Japan did not start the war... they may have initiated the combat in the Pacific theatre of the war, but the war did not start in December 1941. (Same as WW1 didn't start in 1917!!!!!)

America did not fight alone in the Pacific... British Commonwealth and other Asian countries also fought against the Imperial forces. So stop acting as if the bombing saved American lives... bloody arrogance.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

"The now-bustling city’s mayor Kazumi Matsui said nuclear weapons were an “absolute evil” as he urged the world to put an end to them forever."

Then Matsui shouldn't be in the LDP - an ardently pronuclear weapons party.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

'@Jimizo "Try telling the Russians to return the islands"

Putin already offered two of four islands and besides it he said that all four disputed islands can be free for joint settlements under joint administration. But American masters immediately pulled the chain and loyal Abe cut off all negotiations. Seems, that you know only island issue. And you have no idea about regular days of Japanese culture in Russian cities, about great festivals of Japanese martial arts on Russian soil. Are you American? Speaking about islands,please, clean Okinawa off your presence as soon as possible!'

So, you are conceding the islands to Russia and hoping for scraps from Putin's table? Sounds like the kind of lapdog relationship you detest with the US. Who cares about festivals and martial arts? Do you think this would play into the thinking of a clear-thinking, pragmatic KGB thug like Putin?

You didn't answer my question about Russia and China. No disrespect intended, but Japan is far less important to Russia than China nowadays. How about a three in a bed with a Russian thugogracy and the CCP bully boys? I can guarantee Japan will be changing the sheets.

I'm not American by the way.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

@Jimizo "Who cares about festivals and martial arts?" I care. Japanese people care. Russians care because they are very interested of Japan. This is an example of good relations between nations, without dirty politics.

"pragmatic KGB thug"

ROTFL.You keep calling him a thug because he is wise and very-well educated by comparison to your silly brainwashed crowd. Nowadays your 'western civilization' can represent nothing except monthly gay parades.

"I am not American by the way"

I don't care who are you. I am not that much interested.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

'@Jimizo "Who cares about festivals and martial arts?" I care. Japanese people care. Russians care because they are very interested of Japan. This is an example of good relations between nations, without dirty politics.'

Have you been reading things telling you how much certain foreign countries adore Japanese culture? Why are Japanese rightists so hungry for praise?

'ROTFL.You keep calling him a thug because he is wise and very-well educated by comparison to your silly brainwashed crowd. Nowadays your 'western civilization' can represent nothing except monthly gay parades.'

I called him clear-thinking and pragmatic. That is not incompatible with being a thug. Think about it.

"I am not American by the way"

I don't care who are you. I am not that much interested.'

You asked me 'Are you American?'. In my culture, the convention is to answer a question when asked. It's also seen as good manners and well, the thing to do. Is it different in your culture? Do you ask people their favourite sport and then tell them you couldn't care less after they reply?

Congratulations on the most bizarre post I've ever replied to.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Using Pearl Harbor to justify Hiroshima and Nagasaki is dumber than dumb. The Japanse attack on Pearl Harbor was triggered by Harry Dexter White, a Soviet agent in the U.S. Treasury Department under orders of Vitalii Pavlov of the Soviet NKVD. Four recent books have confirmed this: OPERATION SNOW by John Koster explains how Prince Konoye tried to head off the war but Harry Dexter White kept pushing for it with increasingly drastic demands. He made it s9und as if Japan was about to be colonized. Benn Steil in THE BATTLE OF BRETTON WOODS confirms that White was the single most important instigator of the U.S.-Japanese war because White was a Communist sympathizer and secret agent and Japan was anti-Communist. White also tried to destroy post-war Germany -- not just the Nazis but the entire population -- with the Morgenthau Plan. Read John Dietrich's book THE MORGENTHAU PLAN and confirm White's role with STALIN'S SECRET AGENTS. The FBI identified White as a Soviet agent in 1950.

PS: Most civilian casualties of Pearl Harbor were killed by misplaced American anti-aircraft fire. Everybody in Hawaii knows this. even the Chinese and Koreans who hated Japanese militarism..

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Heck. You ought to be grateful for having an ally such as US.

Grateful for having an ally that is known for starting wars around the world, installing puppet regimes, staging false flag operations, exploiting poor countries for corporate gains, and committing all kinds of crimes against humanity?

Thanks for your post. Funniest thing I've read all day.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Many talk about the US/Japan alliance, "In the end we have the best alliance between two nations" please don't kid yourself about Japan US alliance, ask yourself, do you see a single American complaining? No you don't, why would the us complain? They get the better end of the bargain, on the other hand, we have many Japanese across Japan kicking and screaming, where is Japans base on US soil? There isn't one yet the US has many Military base in Japan with or without Japans agreement.

The Japanese people not only get nuked but are to this day 70 years on being oppressed by the US, now that's what I call the living example of pouring salt on the wounds.

Enough said.....

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

No sympathy for America on September 11th.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

No sympathy for America on September 11th.

How about sympathy for the people? Take off the nationalistic goggles. Violence is a form of hatred. I don't know if war is always unavoidable but it's an evil as it rolls through towns and cities causing death and fear, destroying families and precious lives.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

@shallots"How about sympathy for the people?"

Sympathy for the people who often tell us that "A-bombs saved lives"? Who constantly demonstrate selfish and utterly arrogant attitude towards to other nations?

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

'No sympathy for America on September 11th.'

Many of the people killed were not Americans. I'm no apologist for US foreign policy but your post is mindless.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

I would advice people to be careful not to be deceived into believing posts some trolls are posting on here. Yes, Japan and the US were at one time enemies and fought each other but in THIS DAY AND AGE the JAPAN/US relationship is one of the strongest in the world.

What I see here are certain "other country" actors "pretending" to be Japanese or Americans and trying to drive a wedge between our two countries by flaming the fires of a past wrongs and nationalism. Nothing would be better for these "certain" countries than to split Japan and the US up. Every Japanese and American I know only had good things to say about each other and envied each others country in different ways, shapes and forms.

The atrocities that happened in this war are history and are of the mindset of that time. Today people have taken the lessons of that war and hopefully taken it to heart so as to not repeat again.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

'I would advice people to be careful not to be deceived into believing posts some trolls are posting on here. Yes, Japan and the US were at one time enemies and fought each other but in THIS DAY AND AGE the JAPAN/US relationship is one of the strongest in the world.'

The Japan/US relationship is one of Japan's subservience to its master. I'm not sure if 'strong' is the right word to describe this kind of relationship. I don't doubt there are people who like and admire each other but the bottom line is that Japan is useful to the U.S. and this is the basis of the 'strong' relationship. Countries move on and off the US shitlist quite frequently.

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@Psyops"What I see here the "other country" actors "pretending" to be Japanese or Americans".

Please, speak for yourself first.

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playing the poor victim

the actual victims never played that card, though. they always say please remember what happened.

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@Yamashi Ironically, I first came across this attitude amongst Americans, namely university students and apologists for Ward Chruchill who called the WTC workers "little Eichmanns." I'm going to leave you aside because I don't want to engage in ad Hominems. I'll just say I think it is an ethical failing on par with the type of behavior you are decrying (irony upon irony). I find it really sad that people think this way. I tend to think that many, leaving aside Yamashi, are either just immature, or really have some psychological issues that causes this misplaced and inappropriate rage (directed at people they've never met and cannot possibly know).

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@Ostap Bender,"No sympathy for America on September 11th"

I feel your pain that fuels your anger and hatred towards the Americans, this is only worsen by Americas demand for Japans apologetic speach.

@shallots "How about sympathy for the people? Take off the nationalistic goggles. Violence is a form of hatred. I don't know if war is always unavoidable but it's an evil as it rolls through towns and cities causing death and fear, destroying families and precious lives."

As a director once put it "It's in human nature to destroy one another" we are afraid that Alien's would mark the end to the human race but in the end, it would probably be our hatred that sparks the War that ends humanity.

@yamashi "Sympathy for the people who often tell us that "A-bombs saved lives"? Who constantly demonstrate selfish and utterly arrogant attitude towards to other nations?"

My son, not all Americans are the same, the teaching of cymbala says: hatred only begets hatred, violence only paves the way to more violence. A man who can not find forgiveness and forgive others may never find peace and be able to sleep. (Full metal alchemist) I recommend you watch it, the perfect depiction of such anger and hatred. (Mind you, I don't follow that which I preach)

The fact remains, the atomic bombs need not be dropped on humans (soldiers and civil) to end the war, it could have been dropped on some less populated area, crop field, forest etc away from the main towns, why do I insist it still be dropped on land?

A teacher in Art & Culture at the university in London I once lectured at suggested that the Atomic bomb should have been dropped just off the coast of Japan into the sea, it was obvious to me before running the CGI simulation that, the sheer power of the Atomic blast would have resulted in a man-made tsunami and one that's high in radiation. The best option would be the less populated area.

I am sure many places existed with less than 350,000: Population that Hiroshima had before the bombing, of which 40,000 were military.

The sheer raw of the blast would have been enough to gain the final piece of the puzzle, the all important "surrender speach" from the Emperor that led to the end or the war cooling off to an end, wouldn't you agree?

I find such human experiments to be the work of the devil, it's simply crude and grotesque, such actions are puke inducing, yet the Japanese are forced to give the apologetic speech for something Japan already paid dearly for. The thinking behind some American laws are as twisted as the gun-law, that's why I love the UK.

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The atom bombs - terrible as they were - controversial as they were - would not have been dropped if Japan hadn't done the following. (1) Invade and rampage through China. (2) Initiate the Pacific War by attacking the US at Pearl Harbour

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Thunderbird2 "No-one is disputing what the Japanese did during the war... this discussion is about the use of Atomic Weapons on a city full of civilians and the rather pathetic justification for it. Very few people outside of America subscribe to your country's views... my own country's Air Force fire bombed Dresden... we certainly aren't proud of it."

Tell that to the war victims. Let's say your mama was about to become a sex slave... and your papa was to be used for chemical experiments. Would you want to save your parents or some innocent Japanese people? Of course, if you can save both, it would be great.

Understand the point. And I am not proud of you or your country. I am proud of the US for saving Asia and Europe (your parents included). Learn to be grateful.

I think if your parents were in the position, they would be grateful to the US for saving them. Have some compassion for the war victims including your mama and papa in the hypothetical situation.

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JUST WHAT does this slogan mean when translated to English? The Hiroshima cenotaph carries the epitaph "安らかに眠って下さい 過ちは 繰返しませぬから", which means "please rest in peace, for [pronun not specified as is Japanese custom, so left out but means either we/they] shall not repeat the error." In Japanese, the sentence's subject is omitted, thus it could be interpreted as either "[we] shall not repeat the error" or as "[they] shall not repeat the error". SO WHAT is the answer?

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As I said in the other thread, a better translation is 'the error shall not be repeated'.

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danny

JUST WHAT does this slogan mean when translated to English? The Hiroshima cenotaph carries the epitaph "安らかに眠って下さい 過ちは 繰返しませぬから", which means "please rest in peace, for [pronun not specified as is Japanese custom, so left out but means either we/they] shall not repeat the error." In Japanese, the sentence's subject is omitted, thus it could be interpreted as either "[we] shall not repeat the error" or as "[they] shall not repeat the error". SO WHAT is the answer?

the way it sounds to me (i'm a native japanese speaker) is WE shall not repeat the mistake. if it was 'they', then it'd be 繰り返させませんから。

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The "We" may refer to the Japanese people at 'that' time 70 years ago, or it could mean Japanese people in general. If it's "They" it could refer to the Americans, or the next generation of Japanese. Our children "they"....

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Now Americans want me to thank them for killing all of my cousins, uncles and aunts. Some were killed after the surrender of Okinawa by the Americans

First off there are very few, if any American's alive today that killed your ancestors, (people you never knew as you were not born yet) You play the victim card too Yuri, you are just as guilty of not letting things go, now I should be thankful for you killing my uncles during the war? Hell no, you arent to blame, but you are part of the problem in moving forward as you are holding grudges against people you never knew.

Plus, being married to an American makes what you say even more ludicrous

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Japanese leaders including Hideki Tojo were given a choice, surrender or atomic bombings. They chose atomic bombings. There is nothing morally justifiable about wars and their atrocities. Are the atomic bombings on Japan by the USA morally justifiable ? Are the killing of hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians in Nanjing, China by Japanese soldiers morally justifiable ? Are the internment or imprisonment of American citizens of Japanese ancestry by the USA government during World War 2 morally justifiable ? No, they are ALL NOT morally justifiable. But, both Japan and its adversaries did them.

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@Jimizo & yamanashi - I am just putting the warning out there, people need to be focused with facts not hearsay of what someone said in a book or belief the Japanese would have surrendered without the use of bombs. All these conspiracy theories are un-needed. There are too many clowns here just throwing more fuel on a fire that went out 70 years ago. I find it a waste of time that people are still trying to figure out the morality of what happened in that era. The views of today are not compatible with the views of that time. Has anyone seen a nuke used recently by the US? No? then obviously people in this day and age feel in inappropriate to use now.

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The Atom Bomb was made much before than declared Officially. USSR was convinced to give support for fierce attack. even it was guarantee that fierce attack will not harm the US interests by USSR.It is surprise that atomic test was done in July 1945 And tested roughly immediately after three weeks of test.In real sense it might prepared in MID 1944 But secretly put in iron Box. D-Day was just eye wash as somewhere it may secret deal that let Germans themselves defeated by conventional war so as to not face Radio activity, in Europe.It is Astonishing that German were No. 1 enemy but atomic war decision was taken mostly by JEWS,once rooted in Germany. The recent evidence for this, is that Many countries proved Atomic power by NUKE test,with the Hypothesis that ISRAEL have many atomic weapons without test, as they are Dirty players in this GAME.In same manner US made NUKE in mid 1944 without test, or Laboratory local test.....

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Japan who brutally murdered 30 millions of Asian people and allied POW, not China. Japan's level of atrocities were beyond any normal human's imagination, they made Nazi German like guardian angles. High time indeed; those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. For some reason (and I hesitate to generalise but it seems to be something in the Japanese character) the government of Japan appears unwilling to accept responsibility for war crimes committed in WWII, most of which were committed against it's Asian neighbours. In view of this they are naturally uneasy about seeing Japan rearm.

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heres a story from one of the survivors from the Rape of Nanking, as reported on ABC

When Japanese troops arrived in Nanjing, they went on widespread killing spree where hundreds of thousands are thought to have been murdered. Xia Shuqin, a resident of Nanjing who was eight years old when the Japanese soldiers arrived at her house, remembers the events vividly. "They held bayonets and rifles. My father was shot dead once he opened the door. They killed him without saying a word," she told the ABC. "They killed my neighbour, an uncle. My mother was under the table with my little sister. They dragged her out," she said. "They grabbed the baby and killed her by smashing her onto the ground." There were fifteen family members and neighbours at her home that day — only two would survive. Ms Xia's grandfather instructed her to hide and she watched her nearest and dearest as they were killed. "The Japanese soldiers stabbed my mother. They even pounded her body with a rifle. They pulled one of my sisters onto a table and slashed her with a sword," Ms Xia said. "Then they came for another sister. As they dragged her I tried to hold her back and they stabbed me three times. Then I blacked out. When I woke up only my four-year-old sister was alive." Only Ms Xia and her little sister survived the massacre. Every Japanese history book minimising the country's war-time aggression prompts an outcry in China. Every visit by a Japanese leader to the Yasukuni Shrine — which honours (amongst others) Class A war criminals — prompts a major diplomatic rift. Japan has officially apologised before – and it will do so again in the coming days – but this does not seem to be enough for China and the government will be closely analysing every word spoken by prime minister Shinzo Abe. The Chinese Communist Party is accused by some of deliberately stoking ill will towards Japan for political reasons. But Ms Xia, who has visited Japan six times, now thinks it is time the ordinary people of the two countries should unite outside of government and politics.

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Sorry, Wilson, Japan didn't actually "murder" 30 million unless, of course, you can accept the logic that Mao murdered 70 million Chinese soon afterwards.

There were some wars, people died from numerous causes including, as with the 1 million Chinese who died in the breaching of the Yellow River banks by Chiang Kai Shek, killed by their own side.

It does not quite lead to anyone being born in Japan for the rest of time being held responsible for it.

Times have moved on. It would be good if you could too.

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