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Japan to set up police unit to help defend disputed islets: NHK

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Good for them.

-4 ( +12 / -16 )

Well with this, hopefully Japan will get one step closer to be able to defend itself, rather than having to rely on the US to defend them. And there’s no need for revisions in the constitution that are necessary in order for them to be able to do this, considering that this is merely a police force. And also the fact that their army is a self-defense force.

-4 ( +11 / -15 )

You'll notice they don't dare do this with the Russian ones.

1 ( +12 / -11 )

And the rules of engagement are?

9 ( +9 / -0 )

@dbsaiya

And the rules of engagement are?

No one allowed within 1 nm of the islands, Japanese inclusive.

-5 ( +4 / -9 )

Good for Japan. Japan is at last standing up to her bully neighbors under PM Abe, and will not take a step backwards.

-7 ( +13 / -20 )

@dbsalya

My thoughts are the same. What happens if the Chinese try to arrest the Japanese police officers? Would the Japanese police officers be expected to defend themselves by firing back?

Lots of what-ifs here.

10 ( +10 / -0 )

The JSDF was originally a division of the police force. This is how it is able to exist along side article 9. That is why this new division is under the coverage of the police force.

4 ( +8 / -4 )

Time to resign before having to confront the inevitable. Ramping up the pressure usually ends badly. There is apparently a huge job market so the choice is pretty clear, chance of foreign detention or death, violent limb loss vs a job that only requires 100hr free overtime a month. Who in there right mind would want any part of this.

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

They should have done this years ago. But better late than never. Now I would like to see police officers stationed permanently on the Senkakus to deter possible Chinese invasions.

4 ( +8 / -4 )

Very wrong, and why ?

-14 ( +2 / -16 )

Note the new "police force" will not be based upon the glorified rocks themselves, that's how much of a joke the islands are. The islands are far more trouble than they are worth. They suck up our tax yen and risk war for Japan. I recognize that the islands belong to Japan by the same internationally recognized process of having stolen them that every other country operates upon (most countries' existence is upon stolen land). But the easy answer is to just give them to Taiwan. Then the mainland Chinese will shut up and Japan can strengthen their alliance with Taiwan, which has a much better historical claim to these islands which even Japan used to call Diaoyu, the Chinese name.

-5 ( +6 / -11 )

Norman Goodman, Japan has no right to give it to any one. It is wrong to claim the Islands to begin with. To make trouble for others is the same to make trouble for oneself.

-17 ( +1 / -18 )

Ok so is this coming out of tax payers pockets? Aren't we tired of this overused ruse that's done when everything a loser politician promised fails? Isn't it infuriating that the controlled media doesn't even pretend anymore? Only rara articles and nothing condemning the inept regime? And now this escalation?

You'll notice they don't dare do this with the Russian ones.

Exactly. Bullies only pick on people they assume are weaker than them.

-3 ( +6 / -9 )

You'll notice they don't dare do this with the Russian ones.

The answer is easy: The Northern Territories (those Russian ones) are currently administered and occupied by Russia. Doing the same there would be considered an attack. The Senkaku isles are administered by Japan, therefore it is simply an act of act of guard or defense.

On the other hand, why not agree on an ICJ ruling? Japan proposed this on all its disputed isles but so far neither opponent agreed or called on it.

7 ( +11 / -4 )

"Now I would like to see police officers stationed permanently on the Senkakus to deter possible Chinese invasions."

They don't need to be there; the Senkakus are already well protected with China's total encirclement inside the first island chains defenses.

Japan did not become a power, by being asleep, contrary to many's assessments:

"The installations will help fill what Defense Minister Takeshi Iwaya calls a "vacuum" in the GSDF's presence on the Nansei Islands, a chain stretching southwest toward Taiwan."

https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/Japan-plugs-defense-gap-in-southwest-islands-with-new-outposts

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

saitamaliving, which international law says that because of you have "administrative right" then you have sovereignty right ? At the end of WW2, US, Russia, China and UK have the administrative right over Japan, does it mean that Japan belongs to Allies ?

-13 ( +1 / -14 )

@Norman Goodman

The islands are far more trouble than they are worth.

These islands are basis of Japan's EEZ claims.

At least these islands can be used to make valid EEZ claims, unlike Okinotorishima whose EEZ claim is recognized by no other country on earth.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

Let South Korea have that other island they are already there, don't give China an inch they will then claim they have always had that inch then demand 10 more, Russia... go cautiously.

Japan has to get better at this game.. South Korea stations people on those other islands, China builds islands out of nothing to support its claims.. Japan better start having people permanently there soon.

Norman I see your point perhaps shared management with a (continuing) free and independent Taiwan could be a good move to rebalance the quickly shifting power balance in the region.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

 I recognize that the islands belong to Japan

Okay...

by the same internationally recognized process of having stolen them that every other country operates upon 

This part is incorrect. Japan didn't "steal" these islands. No one lived on them or claimed ownership of them when the Okinawans first started going there a few centuries ago. No one lived there or claimed them when Japan asserted ownership of them as part of Okinawa prefecture in the 1890s.

They are not "stolen" because there was no owner to steal them from.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

What? No police force for Dokdo? Chickens.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

@NZ2011

don't give China an inch they will then claim they have always had that inch then demand 10 more, Russia... go cautiously.

China feels that the only way to undo the humiliation of past is to be whole again in territory before the century of humiliation began; this means the recovery of both Taiwan and its periphery islands, the Diaoyu Islands.

So the Diaoyu Islands War is inevitable at some point in the future; it's a matter of when, not if. 

-9 ( +0 / -9 )

@ThonTaddeo

when the Okinawans first started going there a few centuries ago.

1) Okinawans didn't go to the Diaoyu Islands due to the Kuroshio current divide making the sailing very difficult and rough.

2) Diaoyu Islands are easily reached from Taiwan on the other hand, and this has been a popular fishing ground for Taiwanese fishermen. Hence the name "Fishing Islands"(Diaoyu Islands).

3) Japanese didn't know about the existence of the Diaoyu Islands until they discovered them off the British navigation charts, named "Pinnacles Islands". "Senkaku Islands" is a direct Japanese language translation of the "Pinnacles Islands".

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

ThonTaddeo wrote: This part is incorrect. Japan didn't "steal" these islands. No one lived on them or claimed ownership of them

Japan started playing by the western idea that every pebble has to be formally claimed to belong to anyone before the rest of Asia copped on. The Japanese governement considered annexing the islands before it invaded and annexed the rest of Taiwan, but then decided to wait until after the Invasion of Taiwan proper was completed. After stealing Taiwan the Diaoyu islands were administered as part of Taiwan and under the name of Diaoyu. This is all because the Japanese government knew full well China had as much or more claim. Its just bizarre to have to argue that Japan legitimately acquired territory at the same time it invaded and annexed a large island of unwilling people. We are talking about imperial scum here. No benefit of any doubt is remotely deserved.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

@samit

Im a fan of the general status quo as far as territory.

Who gets to decide which time in history we rewind to as far as territory claims, spurious or not, should Rome or England or Japan or Mongolia for that matter be able to claim their preferred time in history.

I have traveled multiple times to Taiwan, Hong Kong, China, South Korea most of South East Asia my views have formed after conversations and actual interactions with people in these places. The people themselves are generally ok, but the agendas of the governments are clearly different.

Beware people and countries that try and change change the status quo..

I may may not be Japanese by birth but I live here, am a permanent resident, own property, pay taxes and have Japanese family. I will criticize Japanese law and politicians when it seems out of line and try to approach things in a balanced way. If someone cares to look through my comments there is a mix across many topics.

I have never promoted violence or war but those words are thrown around too easily.

However due to the fact there are very likely foreign government propaganda agents who regularly comment only on topics to support their political goals (with mostly outrageous claims) in these forums I have decided I will no longer participate in this site.

I have repeatedly asked the moderators to look into it and don’t think that has been done.

Thank you to the reasonable people and Japan Today I hope you can do a better job in the future.

9 ( +9 / -0 )

Well done Japan !!.. Get rid of Chinese invaders !!..

1 ( +9 / -8 )

And another day with another article about dispute islands and all the nationalistic proud stubbornness within it.

After all social welfare or human\animal rights and tax increases are not that important.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

re: No one lived on them or claimed ownership of them when the Okinawans first started going there a few centuries ago. No one lived there or claimed them when Japan asserted ownership of them as part of Okinawa prefecture in the 1890s.

Japan clearly occupied the Ryukyu Islands (Okinawa name changed by Japan) and was a either pay or die term by a warlord from southern Japan at the order of the Emperor of its time. IMO about time the Samuri warrior wakes up and puts something there.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

China feels that the only way to undo the humiliation of past is to be whole again in territory before the century of humiliation began; this means the recovery of both Taiwan and its periphery islands, the Diaoyu Islands.

Interesting. That's exactly how Germany felt before World War 2. And they ended up with even less territory in the end.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

@commanteer

That's exactly how Germany felt before World War 2. And they ended up with even less territory in the end.

If it was China vs Japan war, I wouldn't bet on Japan.

Japan could have held on until 2000s, but not today and certainly not tomorrow.

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

Japan isn't a special nation, and can't abuse laws.

-13 ( +0 / -13 )

China isn't a special nation, and can't abuse laws?

except claiming Tibet, Taiwan, and anything they choose.

you might need a time out in a re education camp me thinks

13 ( +13 / -0 )

Japan & the Philippines both need to join forces to confront China's attempt to expand it control over these small atolls via “squatting”. They can not rely upon the UN to step FWD !

2 ( +2 / -0 )

@Samit - I'm a little confused by this argument:

Okinawans didn't go to the Diaoyu Islands due to the Kuroshio current divide making the sailing very difficult and rough.

...combined with this one:

easily reached from Taiwan on the other hand

The islands are most easily reached not from Taiwan, but from the Yaeyamas (which they lie directly north of) and Yonaguni (which they are northeast of, and which is much closer to them than Taiwan is).

So it is not surprising that Okinawans have been fishing there for centuries, particularly in the years after 1609 when the Satsuma conquerors took taxes so heavy that the islanders didn't have enough food to eat. They had to hand over what little rice these islands could generate (and that isn't much, in the sandy Yaeyamas) and were forced to fish just to have enough food to survive.

@Norman -

We are talking about imperial scum here.

If you want to claim that the creation of Okinawa prefecture in 1879 was wrong, I won't argue, and if you say Japanese occupation of Okinawa beginning in 1609 was illegitimate and wrong, I'll be right there standing with you.

But that doesn't make these islands Chinese. The Chinese never lived on them. The only people to make use of them historically has been Okinawans. People from the Yaeyamas and Yonaguni fished there; people from these islands staffed the bonito plant that was built there in the early 20th century.

And geographically China's claim makes no sense. Draw a dividing line equidistant from Yonaguni and Taiwan. Where do these islands lie? Very, very far east of the line. If they were Taiwanese, there would be a giant overhang, practically encircling Yonaguni, which would make no sense at all.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

It is clear from the  Okinawa Reversion Agreement and supporting documents.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1971_Okinawa_Reversion_Agreement

https://www.mofa.go.jp/mofaj/gaiko/bluebook/1972/s47-shiryou-4-4.htm

https://www.mofa.go.jp/mofaj/area/senkaku/images/qa/img01_l.jpg

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Northeast Asians are smart people, they know there are foreigners who want to destroy the peace of Northeast Asia

And they're smart enough to know the pro-Beijing propaganda, too.

Support for freedom and democracy is not terrorism.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

I can't help feeling that this is going to end in tears.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Both sides need to stop posturing and shaking their spears. I'm sure the Chinese naval and marine forces are going to lay awake nights worring about having to engage with Japanese cops stationed 400 km away. An international tribunal needs to rule on which country, if either, the "islands" belong to, and we can then get back to things that matter.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The JSDF was originally a division of the police force. This is how it is able to exist along side article 9. That is why this new division is under the coverage of the police force.

They were two very different organizations, and your misconception about them being together is the name the JSDF had prior to what it is called today  National Police Reserve (警察予備隊 Keisatsu-yobitai), They were separate from the National Police Agency.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Self-Defense_Forces

After Japan's surrender in 1945, occupation authorities in World War II retained the prewar police structure until a new system was implemented and the Dietpassed the 1947 Police Law. Contrary to Japanese proposals for a strong, centralized force to deal with postwar unrest, the police system was decentralized. About 1,600 independent municipal forces were established in cities, towns, and villages with 5,000 inhabitants or more, and a National Rural Police was organized by prefecture. Civilian control was to be ensured by placing the police under the jurisdiction of public safety commissions controlled by the National Public Safety Commission in the Office of the Prime Minister. The Home Ministry was abolished and replaced by the less powerful Ministry of Home Affairs, and the police were stripped of their responsibility for fire protection, public health, and other administrative duties.

When most of the occupation forces were transferred to Korea in 1950–51 with the Korean War, the 75,000 strong National Police Reserve (predecessor of the Japan Ground Self-Defense Force) was formed outside the Regular police organizations to back up the ordinary police during civil disturbances. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_enforcement_in_Japan

0 ( +0 / -0 )

That is why this new division is under the coverage of the police force.

No, it is being set up under the police for political reasons, as this truly falls under the control of the JSDF. Up until now the JSDF along with Japan Coast Guard, have been making intercepts of Chinese patrol ships and fishermen and to prevent the image of the military getting involved they created this police force to intervene in case there were any landings on the islands.

It's a rather astute move as well, as it makes a statement that it's our land, and it's a "police" matter rather than raising it to the level of a military or self defense matter.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Got to put boots on them islands, comm facilities, weather stations and permanent coast guard station.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Silly.  This should be done by JSDF.  and also for the Korean ones.  And give Russia a hard time about Hoppo Ryodo.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

It is interesting that, unlike other countries, Japan has territorial disputes with all countries across the border.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Silly. This should be done by JSDF. and also for the Korean ones. And give Russia a hard time about Hoppo Ryodo.

Yeah it probably should, but it would be a HUGE political hot potato. Using the police lets Japan continue playing the charade, and keeps China away from politicizing even further by making it a "military" confrontation.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

NZ2011: “However due to the fact there are very likely foreign government propaganda agents who regularly comment only on topics to support their political goals (with mostly outrageous claims) in these forums I have decided I will no longer participate in this site. I have repeatedly asked the moderators to look into it and don’t think that has been done.”

You’re not alone in suspecting the bona fides of some of the commentators on this site and kudos for drawing it to the attention of the owner. It’s not in their interest to allow the site to be hijacked and compromised by those with a very different agenda and they shouldn’t hesitate to be far more proactive in banning these dubious regime cheer leaders before their presence precipitates a wholesale desertion of those who do make valuable contributions on all sorts of issues. We may not always agree with each other, but the withdrawal of intelligent informed comment that encourages us to question and refine our own assumptions would be a loss to us all. Somebody needs to allay the concerns of the decent majority that the integrity of the site is sacrosanct and infiltration by the enemies of reason will be stoutly resisted.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Somebody needs to allay the concerns of the decent majority that the integrity of the site is sacrosanct and infiltration by the enemies of reason will be stoutly resisted.

Sadly integrity is not in the vocabulary here! I am surprised it has not been added to the list of words that are banned as well!

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Why does the Police department need a Navy of it's own. Why not let the Navy do it? Maybe the Police should specialize in police work and let the Navy do the navy stuff.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

"Why does the Police department need a Navy of it's own:

Perhaps because maritime polices everywhere have their own naval units?!

Why should Japan be the one maritime police without its own ships?

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

It is interesting that, unlike other countries, Japan has territorial disputes with all countries across the border.

Well that's not fair. Japan has a 100 percent neighbor dispute rate, but Japan also has few neighbors. Pretty much every country around the South China Sea has a dispute with all the others. Tiny Vietnam's claims are nearly as outrageous as those of PRC and ROC. China has managed to settle some of its disputes but still has a ton. Of course China also has a ton of neighbors.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

@ThonTaddeo

I'm a little confused by this argument:

OK, let me help you understand.

https://media.springernature.com/lw785/springer-static/image/art%3A10.1186%2Fs40645-015-0045-6/MediaObjects/40645_2015_45_Fig2_HTML.gif

Both Taiwan and the Diaoyu Islands sit west of the Kuroshio current, while Okinawa sit east of it.

Commodore Matthew Perry recorded a rough sailing around this region. If big steam ships had a difficulty crossing the Kuroshio current, imagine how much more difficult it would be for small fishing boats to cross it by sail.

On the other hand, it is a smooth sailing from Taiwan to the Diaoyu Islands because there is no natural barrier unlike the sailing from Okinawa to the Diaoyu Islands. 

So it is not surprising that Okinawans have been fishing there for centuries

They didn't.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

JCosplay Sep. 3 06:57 am JST

Well with this, hopefully Japan will get one step closer to be able to defend itself, rather than having to rely on the US to defend them. And there’s no need for revisions in the constitution that are necessary in order for them to be able to do this, considering that this is merely a police force. And also the fact that their army is a self-defense force.

It's actually a lot more complicated than that. 

The current Article 9 says:

ARTICLE 9. (1) Aspiring sincerely to an international peace based on justice and order, the Japanese people forever renounce war as a sovereign right of the nation and the threat or use of force as means of settling international disputes.

(2) In order to accomplish the aim of the preceding paragraph, land, sea, and air forces, as well as other war potential, will never be maintained. The right of belligerency of the state will not be recognized.

As you can see. Article 9 is very obsolete today. For several reasons. 

1) The JSDF is among the 10 most powerful conventional armies in the world. Its exact position varies between 6, 7 or 8. Depending each year. And that also includes war potential. Japan is deliberately disobeying compliance with constitutional observance. They simply ignore its existence for reasons of force majeure.

2) A direct confrontation with a foreign army for reasons of self-defense. It would be an international dispute. And it would automatically violate paragraph 1 of that article. No matter how noble that confrontation might be. That in this case the defense of Japanese national sovereignty. If the People's Republic of China invades the Senkaku Islands. And Japan responds militarily to recover them. The article will be violated. Whichever way you look at it.

Article 9 is doomed to be ignored in the future. Because it cannot be maintained in the present time. It was written in 1946. And the geopolitical situation is not the same. Everything changes in life and that article should change over time. The article is already unsustainable.

That's why it needs to be modified. I hope I helped you with the explanation.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

@JCosplay

Well with this, hopefully Japan will get one step closer to be able to defend itself, rather than having to rely on the US to defend them. 

No one in Japan feels they are defended or protected by the US military. Japan pays more than 70% of US military cost of living. What have they done for Japan?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

If it was China vs Japan war, I wouldn't bet on Japan.

You think it's China vs Japan? It's not. It's pretty much China vs the world.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@Samit --

Both Taiwan and the Diaoyu Islands sit west of the Kuroshio current, while Okinawa sit east of it.

At least get the directions correct. In the region we are looking at, the undisputedly-Okinawan islands (Ishigaki, the other Yaeyamas, and Yonaguni) are south of this current, and the disputed islands are north of it.

If it's such smooth sailing from Taiwan, why didn't any Taiwanese ever live there or build any facilities there? And yet Okinawans did -- look into Tatsushiro Koga's bonito processing plant, which employed a few hundred Yaeyamans and Yonagunians. They all got there by boat with zero problems.

Your map focuses on landmasses during the ice age, before the dawn of human civilization. Connecting these islands to the gigantic land shelf that would have extended eastward from China is completely irrelevant to today's borders and has been for at least 10,000 years.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Are they interested in the fishing rights, or minerals, or strategic military value, or is this just somethng else that they can threaten, posture and argue endlessly about?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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