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Japan to start 4th vaccine shots for elderly, at-risk groups from May 25

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It is a positive development that the boosters are directed to the people where the reduction of risk has been already demonstrated, there is no point in using a booster for people that are still protected by the previous doses and are not at special risk of complications.

-13 ( +27 / -40 )

There is no point in vaccinating people who are not at special risk of complications (healthy people under 65).

12 ( +34 / -22 )

Why? It doesn't seem to work very well.

4 ( +35 / -31 )

Japan has already bought a full stockpile of the 4th dose for the entire population.

These vaccines expire and must be discarded if unused.

This decision means that they think throwing away the vaccines is a better choice than given them to people.

2 ( +19 / -17 )

This decision means that they think throwing away the vaccines is a better choice than given them to people.

vaccines have a shelf life of a zillion years so your comment makes as much sense as mine

-23 ( +12 / -35 )

At some point we will defeat this monster and get back our way of life, get vaccinated please and stop this COVID in it's tracks.

-10 ( +24 / -34 )

Waste of time! Maybe if they had a vaccine that actually worked and was designed for the current variant….

-4 ( +26 / -30 )

Both the WHO and European Medicines Agency began worrying back in January that even though repeated vaccination is effective for an initial few weeks, it can lead to actually weakening the immune system and having the opposite effect in that it may make some more susceptible to catching the virus.

There isn't much data yet to know if this is happening, but who cares about data. More is always better, right?

16 ( +29 / -13 )

Next it's gonna be the 5th,6th,shot and so on and do on..no end in sight.

17 ( +30 / -13 )

Doses of the vaccines developed by U.S. pharmaceutical companies Pfizer Inc. and Moderna Inc. will be administered to individuals who received third shots at least five months earlier.

Once again, no mention of Novavax. Novavax has been approved by Japan, gives longer lasting immunity and fewer side effects.

There is a better vaccine available, and yet it's not even mentioned in the article. If we want this pandemic to end, we need to use the better vaccines, and stop using short term measures like the mRNA vaccines.

8 ( +17 / -9 )

People aged 60 and older as well

If you're 61, you need the 4th shot because the first 3 shots you took aren't working well enough.

If you're 59, don't take the 4th, even though it's already available and paid for, health authorities think it's detrimental to your health for you to take it.

7 ( +23 / -16 )

get vaccinated please and stop this COVID in it's tracks.

one…vaccinated can catch and spread the virus.

two…Bill and Miranda Foundation invested $10 billion in vaccines and got a return of $200 billion in just over two years.

three…the CEO of Pfizer stated that as vaccines don’t work but do lessen the effects, a fifth dose is required with further booster every six months to one year.

four…viruses mutate. Weak ones die out, new one evolve.

five…mRNA vaccines require strict production, distribution and storage and adherence to use-by dates.

six…there are a number of deaths and extreme side effects from vaccines

10 ( +32 / -22 )

vaccine? No thanks .

1 ( +24 / -23 )

Why? It doesn't seem to work very well.

Waste of time! Maybe if they had a vaccine that actually worked

it can lead to actually weakening the immune system and having the opposite effect

the CEO of Pfizer stated that as vaccines don’t work

there are a number of deaths and extreme side effects from vaccines

Summary and conclusion from all these comments:

It makes no sense to take this vaccine?

3 ( +16 / -13 )

jpn gov have "invested" huge money in it so need to use somehow,stop to discuss,you are in Japan.

forget about any common sense.

-7 ( +10 / -17 )

Got to use up the stockpile before it expires. Is anybody still on board this conveyor belt?

5 ( +16 / -11 )

Again with the ticket system. Honestly, it's like they never learn.

As for the fourth shot, why? At this point it seems futile given how the virus keeps mutating to different variants.

7 ( +17 / -10 )

Doesn't anyone ever learn? The US-made vaccines were designed to prevent the alpha strain Covid virus which originated in Wuhan, China. The virus has gone through dozens of mutations since then and the vaccines' efficacy is now rather dubious. I don't see why the government keeps offering the same vaccines.

9 ( +18 / -9 )

Well said Roders!!

3 ( +6 / -3 )

I wish they’d send out tickets to those who still need a 1st shot . As soon as the next surge starts …. The anti everything clan will be all over social platforms accusing the jgov of incompetence for slow rolling the vaccines again. There is no recovery from dead . And the vaccines have and work exactly as advertised…. Against all variants. “Spike proteins” to help reduce your risk of serious or severe symptoms and complications…. Thereby reducing the excess burden on the healthcare system and giving you the best chance at survival. It is not better to gamble with infection than resist proven vaccines.

-20 ( +7 / -27 )

There is no point in vaccinating people who are not at special risk of complications (healthy people under 65).

Vaccinating? definetely yes, even a first booster has been demonstrated to reduce importantly the risk of complications and death even for healthy young people, a second booster do not have that evidence.

Why? It doesn't seem to work very well.

The evidence until now says it does.

This decision means that they think throwing away the vaccines is a better choice than given them to people.

Your assumption is baseless, not only because donating them is much better than just throwing it away, but because the benefits from vaccination have already been achieved for people without special vulnerabilities, so there is no point in doing the extra effort to boost the general population again, which is exactly the contrary to what antivaxxer groups said it would happen.

Waste of time! Maybe if they had a vaccine that actually worked and was designed for the current variant…

The experts say it works very nicely based on evidence from countless populations, a comment without any basis from an anonymous person on the internet is not enough to disprove the scientific consensus.

Both the WHO and European Medicines Agency began worrying back in January that even though repeated vaccination is effective for an initial few weeks, it can lead to actually weakening the immune system and having the opposite effect in that it may make some more susceptible to catching the virus.

No they don't because that doesn't happen, there is absolutely no evidence that vaccines for COVID have any negative effect on the risk to catch the disease, that is just baseless antivaxxer disinformation.

There isn't much data yet to know if this is happening, but who cares about data. More is always better, right?

If you have much more (and better) evidence that disproves what you believe then yes, that is not difficult when your beliefs have zero evidence to support them.

Next it's gonna be the 5th,6th,shot and so on and do on..no end in sight.

Extra boosters become justified if they reduce the risk from infection, what is your alternative? run those higher risks? the reality is that gradually the risks from COVID have diminished thanks to vaccination, containment measures and new treatments, there is a point where an extra booster becomes unnecessary, we are at that point right now for the general population.

-13 ( +16 / -29 )

Rumor goes that with the 4th one you're 120% protected against risks.

0 ( +6 / -6 )

If you're 61, you need the 4th shot because the first 3 shots you took aren't working well enough.

But still work much better than not vaccinating, which is the whole point. As long as vaccines or boosters reduce the risk it is justified to recommend them for the people that are vulnerable still.

one…vaccinated can catch and spread the virus.

Just much less than not vaccinated people, saying that sober people can still have accidents while driving does nothing to disprove that people should not drive while drunk.

two…Bill and Miranda Foundation invested $10 billion in vaccines and got a return of $200 billion in just over two years.

Yeah, but the return is not for him but for the populations that got protected and therefore have huge benefits in health care, trying to misrepresent the benefits as if they were to the investors is obvious disinformation.

three…the CEO of Pfizer stated that as vaccines don’t work but do lessen the effects

that would be like saying that antibiotics don't work but do increase the chances of the immune system of defeating the bacteria, this means they work, because that is the purpose of vaccines.

four…viruses mutate. Weak ones die out, new one evolve.

And vaccination reduce the chances of variants of interest appearing, as easy as just seeing what population where the ones that originated delta and omicron for example, this is an argument FOR vaccination, not against it.

five…mRNA vaccines require strict production, distribution and storage and adherence to use-by dates.

So what? Japan has all that, and could donate vaccines to countries that still need them without any special difficulty.

six…there are a number of deaths and extreme side effects from vaccines

A tiny microscopic number in comparison with the death and extreme health problems from not being vaccinated. what medical intervention do you imagine do not have any risk? since they all have them do you believe no medical treatment should be used?

Summary and conclusion from all these comments:

It makes no sense to take this vaccine?

A much better summary is that people prefer to keep believing false things to justify their personal beliefs instead of actually accepting that vaccines are safe and effective.

As for the fourth shot, why? At this point it seems futile given how the virus keeps mutating to different variants.

the point is that the vaccines still safely reduce the risks for the populations for whom they are recommended, if the choice is between current vaccines or full risks then the vaccines are still an advantage.

The virus has gone through dozens of mutations since then and the vaccines' efficacy is now rather dubious

Not at all, for the vulnerable population the benefits are clear, for young healthy people the benefits of a second booster are not, so that is why the experts only recommend them to people specially vulnerable.

-15 ( +15 / -30 )

there is a point where an extra booster becomes unnecessary, we are at that point right now for the general population.

If there are over 80 million Japanese people under the age of 60, you're saying the booster won't even save 1 single life from those 80 million?

The vaccines have already been paid for, they are available to be shot into arms for free!

Even if it saves 1 life, shouldn't they be administered?

Why did the Japanese government decide to halt the rollout?

-8 ( +9 / -17 )

If the first 3 shots did not work, what makes them think that the 4th, 5th, 6th shots, etc are going to do anything. Where is the science and studies that prove it works?

Looks like they just need to get rid of expiring stockpiles. Also, over 60% of Pfizer's profits were on vaccines alone (36 billion USD) in 2021. Moderna's profit jumped to 18.5 billion USD in 2021 from 803 million USD in2020. You think they have a lot of motivation to push the vaccines? That government taxpayer money pays top dollar.

3 ( +14 / -11 )

If there are over 80 million Japanese people under the age of 60, you're saying the booster won't even save 1 single life from those 80 million?

Well, since they will not receive that second booster obviously it means so.

The vaccines have already been paid for, they are available to be shot into arms for free!

Even if it saves 1 life, shouldn't they be administered?

Sure, specially in countries where vulnerable people are still at a risk of infection and the vaccines would have a much greater effect.

Why did the Japanese government decide to halt the rollout?

Because the marginal benefit for people that are already protected makes it unjustified to do the extra trouble in order to vaccinate them, focusing on the people that benefit the most is what should be done.

-13 ( +10 / -23 )

If the first 3 shots did not work, what makes them think that the 4th, 5th, 6th shots, etc are going to do anything. Where is the science and studies that prove it works?

Well, the thing is that the first 3 shots do work, and reduce importantly the risk from COVID, the second booster also do the same for the most vulnerable and the scientific evidence is very easy to find.

https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/coronavirus-covid-19-update-fda-authorizes-second-booster-dose-two-covid-19-vaccines-older-and

Looks like they just need to get rid of expiring stockpiles.

If that were the reason they would vaccinate everybody, or donate the doses to other countries, in reality the booster is scientifically justified, only people irrationally against vaccines pretend this is not true. After all it is much more profitable to treat people than to vaccinate them, the profits from even symptomatic treatment at home would make more money for the pharmaceutical companies (specially the local ones) even a brief hospitalization would be tow or three orders of magnitude more.

-13 ( +11 / -24 )

After all it is much more profitable to treat people than to vaccinate them, the profits from even symptomatic treatment at home would make more money for the pharmaceutical companies (specially the local ones) even a brief hospitalization would be tow or three orders of magnitude more.

Theoretically, the highest profit would come from a person who is both vaccinated and sick, ideally in that order.

There is zero profit from an unvaccinated healthy person.

There has been zero profit for them from me. I neither took the shot nor ended up in hospital.

1 ( +13 / -12 )

Theoretically, the highest profit would come from a person who is both vaccinated and sick, ideally in that order.

But since vaccination has been demonstrated to greatly reduce the risk of becoming sick, becoming hospitalized, having complications (that require expensive treatement) each vaccine dose reduce very importantly the profit that can be made from the person.

There is zero profit from an unvaccinated healthy person.

But since the risk of becoming sick, hospitalized or complicated because of the infection that still means not vaccinating is more profitable, the unvaccinated person is simply much less likely to remain healthy thanks to the easily transmitted infection.

The more people that bet their health (and money) to not being vaccinated the more profit the companies make.

-11 ( +11 / -22 )

After all it is much more profitable to treat people than to vaccinate them, the profits from even symptomatic treatment at home would make more money for the pharmaceutical companies (specially the local ones) even a brief hospitalization would be tow or three orders of magnitude more.

One hospitalization does cost more than one vaccination. But how much of that cost goes to big pharma? And how many thousands of people do you need to vaccinate to prevent one hospitalization?

Theoretically, the highest profit would come from a person who is both vaccinated and sick, ideally in that order.

Indeed!

-3 ( +7 / -10 )

There is no evidence that a fourth shot reduces severe disease or death more than the initial doses. We are past the emergency phase of the pandemic. Good science needs to make a comeback. Fast.

-2 ( +10 / -12 )

Thecurrent vaccine is not even designed counter Omicron.

And guess what?

Even if it were then it would still be possible to get infected.

Since I have already had it then to what extent does the Japanese government recognize that my body is sufficiently strong enough to ward off the Omicron variant infection without taking up a hospital bed?

The answer is that it doesn’t.

When the science is ignored then it is time to the ignore unscientific dictats!

2 ( +10 / -8 )

This forum seems to be inundated with conspiracy theory types. Thanks to virusrex, for a voice of reason, based on reality and science.

-5 ( +14 / -19 )

The announcement came after the Cabinet approved a revision to a ministerial ordinance required to offer the fourth shots.

Not enough studies support the 4th shot.

But since the risk of becoming sick, hospitalized or complicated because of the infection that still means not vaccinating is more profitable, the unvaccinated person is simply much less likely to remain healthy thanks to the easily transmitted infection.

???

Regardless, the best approach to not getting sick from Covid is to not get infected in the first place.

Instead of relying on vaccines hoping it will make one "less" sick, the CDC determined that people who fare best are the ones who do not get infected in the first place.

Kind of an obvious concept, but one that is overlooked by those pushing the vaccines.

We know who you are.

0 ( +7 / -7 )

I know this is anecdotal, but I know a lot of people with 3 shots who all got covid after getting that 3rd shot.

8 ( +16 / -8 )

As an unjabbed person I understand that the first three did not prevent infection or transmission however, Pfizer will be more than happy to supply number four.

2 ( +13 / -11 )

One hospitalization does cost more than one vaccination. But how much of that cost goes to big pharma? And how many thousands of people do you need to vaccinate to prevent one hospitalization

Just check the prices of even the simplest things that are consumed during hospitalizations and the cost of a vaccine is already surpassed, drugs increment this exponentially. Even symptoms treated at home means more money for the companies. Again, betting that you will not get infected nor sick without the vaccines is what is more convenient economically.

There is no evidence that a fourth shot reduces severe disease or death more than the initial doses.

Yes there is, for vulnerable people, I already included a reference for this.

Regardless, the best approach to not getting sick from Covid is to not get infected in the first place.

That depends on the method, if for example not getting infected means losing your job, the access to medical treatments, education, etc. that can't be called the "best" approach even if that reduces much more the chances of getting infected. Vaccines allows for everything else to be continued without sacrificing it while keeping the risk from disease low, so it can validly be called better even if infection happens.

As an unjabbed person I understand that the first three did not prevent infection or transmission however, Pfizer will be more than happy to supply number four.

The first doses do prevent infection and transmission (in the medical sense, the same as antibiotics prevents deaths from bacterial infections) but the primary purpose is to prevent disease, complications, hospitalizations and deaths, which is also something that vaccines have accomplished.

-11 ( +9 / -20 )

Well ...there's no data to prove or disprove the long term affects of the vaccines.

So pointless and futile to argue about that because its too soon to know.

It's called science for a reason

0 ( +5 / -5 )

Still haven't had the first, and I will never have it.

3 ( +17 / -14 )

Based on Reality and science

Those are two words that consistently disprove each other.

A PHD is only obtained by disproving someone else's theory .

Only to be made invalid over and over again.

Very entertaining !

-3 ( +5 / -8 )

Regardless, the best approach to not getting sick from Covid is to not get infected in the first place.

That, and making efforts to improve one's health. I haven't gotten sick since the start of the pandemic despite my not wearing masks outdoors and not significantly changing my daily activities. I've often been on crowded trains (Yamanote line...), as well as in restaurants and pubs. So I suspect I have frequently been exposed to the virus but that the infection never went very far, because my immune system did what it is supposed to do...

5 ( +12 / -7 )

@divinda

Correct, it has even been reported by US mainstream media.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

So I suspect I have frequently been exposed to the virus but that the infection never went very far, because my immune system did what it is supposed to do...

Fine for you, but if you are a carrier without symptoms you may infect a person like myself with serious existing and potentially fatal conditions.

-7 ( +7 / -14 )

@virusrex

Yes there is, for vulnerable people, I already included a reference for this.

An FDA press release is not evidence. I read it anyway. Did you? They talk about the data at the end of the article. The "emerging" data they use to suggest a 4th dose is protective against severe disease/death in vulnerable people is a single, ongoing study that showed increases in neutralizing antibodies in those who got the 4th dose. This is not in fact evidence of reduced severity or death. Like I said. Good science needs to make a comeback now that we have the luxury of time that we did not have pre-vaccines.

6 ( +11 / -5 )

My local VA is giving a 4th vaccine for vets over 50 and at risk. I got mine today.

-1 ( +8 / -9 )

I am still appallaed at the anti-vaccination misinformation posts here.

I am also cheered to see some smart posts as well.

-8 ( +9 / -17 )

I have to say my health seemed to improve since March and almost all my lingering symptoms gone since my Pfizer booster in April. I was able to visit the US and enjoy myself. I want to completely forget 3/2020--2/2022.

0 ( +7 / -7 )

even a first booster has been demonstrated to reduce importantly the risk of complications and death even for healthy young people

Healthy young people, specially children, have a risk for SARS-CoV-2 creating complications or leading to death similar or lower to that of the seasonal flu, and that was before Omicron. Not to mention that the risk of a vaccinated 50 year old is similar to that of an unvaccinated 20 year old.

Reducing an already low risk to even lower is not good risk assessment, specially when it means at the very least to feel bad and not going to school for a couple of days, and at worst heart problems, specially in young males.

Not only that, the boosters sadly have not been approved with the same level of evidence and scrutiny that the first 2 shots got. Pharmaceutical companies are just pushing the number of antibody going up as the main metric to show efficacy, in very lackluster trials.

I would say, let's stop this fearmongering, but its already 2 years+ too late for that.

Extra boosters become justified if they reduce the risk from infection

Stop this. The main point of these vaccines is not sterilizing you for getting COVID-19, but to reduce bad outcomes. Stop talking like if we were back at the start of 2021 when it was still believed that the vaccine could be sterilizing (with very low evidence, by the way), but now we know without a doubt that it isn't.

We are not getting rid of this virus, so stop pushing this narrative.

2 ( +11 / -9 )

There is no point in vaccinating people who are not at special risk of complications (healthy people under 65).

Hence the headline.

0 ( +6 / -6 )

@ArtistAtLarge

I am still appallaed at the anti-vaccination misinformation posts here.

I am also cheered to see some smart posts as well.

Agreed!

-5 ( +4 / -9 )

There is no point in vaccinating people who are not at special risk of complications (healthy people under 65).

Hence the headline.

My comment was in response to the previous poster, not the headline. I'm referring to all covid vaxxes, not just the 4th shot.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Bob Foss

Oh yes the first sentence is most certainly correct because without a theory there is no PHD.

Do you think science isnt a theory ?

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

All I care about is that from next month,I'll be able to fly back into Japan without the silly test on arrival if I've been jabbed 3 times, if changes to 4, well, so be it, and if offered I'll have it anyway. Not done me any harm and may have protected me from getting ill. Pretty sure I had it at Christmas anyway.

-1 ( +7 / -8 )

Those are two words that consistently disprove each other.

A PHD is only obtained by disproving someone else's theory .

That makes no sense, science simply means having a method to understand reality, and a doctoral degree depends on a thesis, which can be obtained easily by finding something (of importance) new, there is zero requirements to disprove anything.

That, and making efforts to improve one's health.

Scientifically it can be proved this is no replacement for the decreased risk obtained from vaccines, anecdotal evidence do not disprove the clear advantage vaccines bring over not vaccinating, vaccinating is part of what a responsible person does to avoid losing their health, and it can't be replaced by "improving your health". You suspecting something is no argument against the scientific consensus.

Correct, it has even been reported by US mainstream media.

Yet when asked for a reference nothing is ever provided, specially nothing with actual data to support the conclusion, that points out to it being false.

An FDA press release is not evidence. I read it anyway. 

It is when you follow the links offered to more information and the primary sources of information that sustain the recommendations done, it is also hardly the only source of information that support the use of a second booster.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-022-01832-0

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8846615/

https://www.who.int/publications/i/item/WHO-2019-nCoV-vaccines-SAGE_recommendation-immunocompromised-persons

This is not in fact evidence of reduced severity or death.

Yes it is when the titers of neutralizing antibodies have been already characterized as a valid surrogate for protection. That is the whole point of doing it.

Not only that, the boosters sadly have not been approved with the same level of evidence and scrutiny that the first 2 shots got. 

If the experts in the field say the evidence is clear and sufficient how can you prove they are wrong?

Stop this. The main point of these vaccines is not sterilizing you for getting COVID-19, but to reduce bad outcomes.

This is what is written in the text you quote, vaccines still reduce the risk of getting infected, but more importantly they importantly reduce the risk people get from the infection (disease, complications, death)

So... you took the first 2 shots but refused the booster... err... why?

This is a valid question, for people that get a reduction of risk from the vaccines and will benefit also from boosters, what is the rationale of refusing?

My comment was in response to the previous poster, not the headline. I'm referring to all covid vaxxes, not just the 4th shot

Which is precisely what can be proved to be false.

-10 ( +4 / -14 )

characterized as a valid surrogate for protection

Like I said, repeatedly, let’s see some real data conferring actual efficacy. Surrogates don’t cut it anymore.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

At least the antivaxers are now singing a different tune, from "the vaccine is more dangerous than covid" not too long ago, to "the vaccine is not strictly necessary" now

-7 ( +4 / -11 )

I'm two-times vaxxed, but for the vaxxmaxxers on Reddit and other left-leaning social media I'm already considered anti-vaxx.

Why? Because I'm 30, fit, no comobordities, 2-times vaxxed and 1-time infected (and exposed on numerous locations), but refuse to get a booster because many of my friends suffered severe side effects.

Based on my friends, I can either get a booster, be sick for a week, and get infected afterwards and be sick for a week; OR I can simply get infected and be sick for a week. Wonder what's the better choice.

10 ( +13 / -3 )

Northernlife

...you need to tell everyone your my hero

*you're

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

I love how people come on here and act as if they're experts. No one ever said the vaccine was perfect. Also, it's been stated the efficacy of the vaccine wanes over time, so, having a 4th vaccine makes sense.

In general, though, I am going to believe statements put out by epidemiologists, not be righteous couch doctors who think they know more than anyone in the world about the efficacy of the vaccine.

And also... if there was no vaccine at all, the number of people getting sick and dying would, without doubt, rise. The vaccine was invented to prevent worst-case scenarios. It's not going to be 100% effective, as nothing else is in life.

To those righteous people who say the vaccines weren't necessary -- maybe they weren't for you -- and maybe you've been lucky. But that's not the case for others, and unless you are an epidemiologist, and I'm going to take a wild guess that you're not, then please don't tell us the vaccines weren't "necessary." You don't know enough to say that.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

Four people on our block died from covid before the vaccines became available, but none have died since. So, I have been very happy to get the shots, and then the boosters. However, the day after I got the second booster I became very sick, with chronic fatigue and body aches. It has been that way now for about 7 weeks. If I could do it over, I think I would skip the second booster.

An aside, while growing up my mother used to tell me stories about what she witnessed during the Spanish Flu outbreak, in New York City. It was horrible, and I will never forget the awful stories she told me about what she saw. What I never, ever expected, was that I would live through something even remotely similar to the Spanish Flu.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

they were always more dangerous than covid. This has now become so obvious, ever since omicron.

I believe you no proof necessary just the strength of your conviction.

Lol

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Never had a vaccine; never had a test; never had Covid. No intention of getting vaccinated now.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

Never had a vaccine; never had a test; never had Covid. No intention of getting vaccinated now.

What are you a second , third gen antivaxer?

Anyway good luck.

Millions have already died because of covid but it seems to be at its weakest now so good chances for every one, hope it continues to be weaker still

0 ( +4 / -4 )

He didn't mention it but he has no intention of getting infected also I'm sure.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

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