Japan to survey Alaskan island in hopes of recovering WWII dead

What a lousy way to die. I hope their families get some closure.

An example of the utterly demented mentality of the Imperial Japanese Army high command during WWII. These soldiers were not ordered to fight to the death to protect the homeland. They were told to die protecting a remote barren offensive position. The only battle on actual US soil. As Hawaii did not become a State until 1959.

The only battle on actual US soil. As Hawaii did not become a State until 1959.

Likewise for Alaska (1959), including the Aleutian islands, no? Both were US territories before statehood.

War is absurd. Somewhere I read that war is decided by old men incapable of discussing in a civilized manner who decide to send the young men of their countries to die because of their incapacity to solve in a peaceful manner their issues. It is a gesture of respect to give a proper mourn and burial to those who died because of intolerance and ignorance of past leaders.

An example of the utterly demented mentality of the Imperial Japanese Army high command during WWII. These soldiers were not ordered to fight to the death to protect the homeland. 

The IJAs attacks on Attu and Kiska were intended as diversions from their main attack on Midway. The IJA and IJN figured an attack on Alaska would draw US forces north in a panic to protect Alaska and away from the main attack at Midway. Japan really wanted Hawaii, not Alaska. However they did not count on the US Navy having broken the IJNs code just a few weeks before the planned attack so US forces were not drawn into the Japanese diversion. The rest is well documented history and the battle that changed the war in the Pacific.

Japan really wanted Hawaii, not Alaska.

There was a debate among the Japanese military on this, but no decision. The Japanese strategy at Midway was to draw out the remainder of the US fleet, mainly the aircraft carriers, from Hawaii so they could sink them and complete what they had started the previous Dec. 7. The book on Midway by Fuchida and Okumiya was critical, in retrospect, of Yamamoto's overconfident strategy of dispersing his forces by directing a feint at the Aleutians.

The only battle on actual US soil. As Hawaii did not become a State until 1959.

So basically, when FDR said -

“Yesterday, December 7, 1941—a date which will live in infamy—the United States of America was suddenly and deliberately attacked by naval and air forces of the Empire of Japan.”

he was lying? The US wasn’t really attacked then. The whole war with Japan was based on a lie?

Thanks to Adolf Hitler for declaring war on the US to legitimize it…… /s

I wholeheartedly support their attempt, as obladi says, to get some closure. It is long overdue.

US Territories ARE US soil.

People born on any US Territory are US Citizens and have US passports.

Hawaii was a US Territory in 1900.

Alaska was made a US Territory in 1912.

Japan was forced into attacking the US. There was an oil embargo that prevented Japan from receiving oil from the US. This happened after Japan invaded French Indochina. Japan thought they could decimate the US Pacific fleet and quickly end the war with the US, gaining access to American oil and other war supplies. If Japan wanted to continue their war, they needed to end the total export embargo the US had established.

So, was Japan "forced"? Not really, but at the time, it seemed the easiest way to get oil supplies for their war effort.

Anyway, that was long ago. The US and Japan are friends, so there's little reason NOT to allow Japanese to seek their WW2 dead. It is a simple thing to allow. I'm a little shocked that the US would even bother to have any oversight outside interested US-based archeologists and historians. At this point, I think there is sufficient trust - but perhaps that's just my bias.

ossanamerica:

The only battle on actual US soil. As Hawaii did not become a State until 1959.

What planet are you living on? USA invaded and killed natives and got rid of the monarchy a long time before Hawaii became a state. It was already a colony, vassal state, outpost, whatever.

theFuToday  11:03 am JST

US Territories ARE US soil.

People born on any US Territory are US Citizens and have US passports.

Hawaii was a US Territory in 1900.

Alaska was made a US Territory in 1912.

That depends on one's definition of "own soil". And more importantly, US Territory did not automatically mean US Citizenship and Passport.

In the case of Hawaii, citizens were granted US Citizenship in 1900. And Alaska shortly following purchase from Russia in 1867.

The Philippines were a U.S. Territory from 1898 to 1946. However, Philippinos did not hold US Citizenship but instead were "US Nationals". They did not have US Passports, instead held Passports issued by the Commonwealth of the Phillipines after 1935.

More recently, The Trust Territory of the Pacific Islands, a UN Trust Territory administered by the US from 1947 to 1994, and includes several Pacific island groups, such as the Marshall Islands, the Federated States of Micronesia, Palau, and the Northern Mariana Islands consisted of "Non-Citizen US Nationals" but were allowed US Passports. Most of these nations have moved on to independence now, but American Samoa remains today inhabited by "US Non-Citizen Nationals" who carry US Passports.

So no, people born on any US Territory are not automatically US Citizens.

@Ossan, as a Pacific Islander who was born in the Trust Territory we were never issued US passports. We had Trust Territory passports. Guam was different because it was never part of the Trust Territory.

@gstring: The whole war with Japan was based on a lie..../s?

Spin BS, then claim the spin was sarcasm is just spinning more BS. LOL

What an utter waste. I hope they find any remains and people get closure, but they should never forget that those people died for absolutely no reason, and without any honor at all, only with shame.

Pukey2Today 11:24 am JST

ossanamerica:

The only battle on actual US soil. As Hawaii did not become a State until 1959.

What planet are you living on? USA invaded and killed natives and got rid of the monarchy a long time before Hawaii became a state. It was already a colony, vassal state, outpost, whatever.

You see: all large countries have that. Russia eliminated the Siberians and China eliminated the Tibetans and Uyghurs.

gyokusai

My grandfather (in the IJA) also died from this order in the summer of 1942. He was one of the last major officers to be sent in to Guadalcanal right before the major battle began. He knew he wasn't going to make it out alive as he wrote in his diary, which my family, somehow, got a hold of.

RandomToday  12:16 pm JST

@Ossan, as a Pacific Islander who was born in the Trust Territory we were never issued US passports. We had Trust Territory passports. Guam was different because it was never part of the Trust Territory.

Thank you for the clarification. It further supports what I stated.

@PTend Spin BS, then claim the spin was sarcasm is just spinning more BS. LOL

What? Don’t know what you’re reading into my comment, but I’m spinning nowt.

My comment was aimed at OssanAmerica’s implication that Hawaii was not a proper part of the US at the time of Pearl Harbor attack. I thought my sarcasm was obvious enough to everyone to imply that it was……obviously not.

taiwanchina:

China eliminated the Tibetans and Uyghurs.

Try again, mate. Go to western China and you'll see written Uighur, Kazakh and Tibetan everywhere, and hear the languages. What has changed is that Uighurs and Tibetans are now much more educated, more well-off, and becoming bilingual and even mulitlingual (something most Americans can't comprehend). Try leaving America and visiting China to see for yourself. Oh that's right, your government has put out a travel warning (so that people don't discover the truth). Anyone can visit. It is not out of bounds like Guantanamo Bay. You only have to see all the Youtube videos created by visitors from the west, white, black, Asian, muslim, who are in Xinjiang and enjoying themselves and interacting with locals. But yeah, you probably think they're all 'paid by the CCP'.

Most Americans don't have US Passports. You have to apply to get one. They aren't "issued" automatically.

The US Constitution is pretty clear:

“All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.”

Ref: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/25/world/australia/american-samoa-birthright-citizenship.html

I don't see how any Territory isn't being born in the US. Call me confused. Leave it to lawyers to foul up something that could be so very simple.

And generally, that’s accurate. People born in any of the 50 states, one federal district and four major territories (Puerto Rico, the U.S. Virgin Islands, Guam and the Northern Mariana Islands) are automatically American citizens.

But they aren’t United States citizens. Instead, American Samoans are U.S. “nationals,” a small but significant distinction that precludes them from voting, running for office, and holding jobs in a narrow selection of fields, including law enforcement. They can become citizens after moving to the mainland, but the process is long, requires passing a history test and costs at least $725, before legal fees, without any guarantee of success.

I was surprised to learn that a US Passport can be provided to a non-citizen. That's something I didn't know, since the vast majority of people with US Passports from US Territories are also Citizens. Thanks for pointing out the exceptions.

Many American Samoans want US Citizenship. Not having it restricts them from a few rights in the USA, if they relocate. OTOH, only local American Samoans can own land there. Everyone else who wants to live there needs to find a landlord and sign a long-term lease. They cannot own land.

Pukey2Aug. 18 08:37 pm JST

taiwanchina:

China eliminated the Tibetans and Uyghurs.

Try again, mate. Go to western China and you'll see written Uighur, Kazakh and Tibetan everywhere, and hear the languages. What has changed is that Uighurs and Tibetans are now much more educated, more well-off, and becoming bilingual and even mulitlingual (something most Americans can't comprehend).

I'm sure there are people claiming the Native Americans are better off too. They are minus their land and sovereignty, like the Tibetans and Uyghurs, though.

Try leaving America and visiting China to see for yourself. Oh that's right, your government has put out a travel warning (so that people don't discover the truth).

As an abducting state, China is a dangerous to place to visit, particularly for Americans.

Anyone can visit. It is not out of bounds like Guantanamo Bay.

Guantanamo Bay is a military facility. It's not hard to understand it is off limits.

You only have to see all the Youtube videos created by visitors from the west, white, black, Asian, muslim, who are in Xinjiang and enjoying themselves and interacting with locals. But yeah, you probably think they're all 'paid by the CCP'.

The CCP has the ability to reward any useful idiot around the world, including potentially some of the commentators on this site.

theFuToday  12:56 am JST

Most Americans don't have US Passports. You have to apply to get one. They aren't "issued" automatically.

My use of the term "issued" is with the common sense understanding that a passport can be issued if applied for and the application is accepted. The same in all countries everywhere. No intent to suggest passports are issued "automatically" without application.

The situation with American Samoa clearly shows how the words of the U.S. constitution are not applied verbatim and are secondary to the terms (from both sides) since American Samoa has had their own constitution since 1967. Despite having become a US Territory between 1900 to 1925, the USCIS has no jurisdiction there, and entry into American Samoa is under the auspices of the American Samoan Immigration, even for US Citizens comming from the 50 states.

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.”

Those born in American Samoa are not US citizens. They are US "Nationals". As such they may not vote in Federal elections, run for Federal office or hold certain jobs such as Federal law enforcement.

Go to western China and you'll see written Uighur,

More like Uyghurs being held in concentration camps or being forced to live with a Han Chinese minder who monitors their daily activities, force sterilizations and who are denied the ability to fast during the day during Ramadan in accordance with their religion. Oh yeah, the Han Chinese dug up all the old Muslim grave yards.

Tibetans are now much more educated, more well-off, and becoming bilingual 

BS. Chinese companies that locate in Tibet hire Han Chinese. The Tibetans live in poverty forced to speak Mandarin instead of their native Tibetan. Similarly their Buddhist religion is suppressed.

Stop shilling for the CCP.

There was a debate among the Japanese military on this, but no decision. The Japanese strategy at Midway was to draw out the remainder of the US fleet, mainly the aircraft carriers, from Hawaii so they could sink them and complete what they had started the previous Dec. 7. The book on Midway by Fuchida and Okumiya was critical, in retrospect, of Yamamoto's overconfident strategy of dispersing his forces by directing a feint at the Aleutians.

The IJN leadership had this idea in their heads that they were going to defeat their enemies including the US Navy in one grand epochal battle instead of a long series of campaigns over a period of years.