Japan, U.S. to develop 'fuel-cell submarine'

The plan is it won't be armed. The next generation will be. Which is why the first generation should be stopped.

Hope you would be as vocal about Russia developing this kind if thing, Crush Them.

So, what they are virtually developing is underwater long-range drones capable of spying just about anywhere. I can see plans for cheaper unmanned kamikaze styled underwater drones and others with weapons capabilities in the very near future.

This is the top story for national news? Where's the Nagasaki coverage?

Yeah, right. A fuel cell sub with a months running time over a nuclear-powered sub that runs longer than the lifespan of the entire crew put together.

No, only about 25 years, HonestDictator

yes most Nuke subs dont need refueling for 20-25years, basically the life of the sub, but they can only stay submerged for as long as the food toilet paper lasts, about 6 months max. nuke subs produce there own water, oxygen. im guessing a battery only powered sub may have an advantage of stealth, since only motors & propellers would be making any noise.

Germany already has this type of submarine in service (Dolphin II class). They are just trying to re-develop existing technology instead of simply licensing it. More taxpayer money wasted.

Hope you would be as vocal about Russia developing this kind if thing, Crush Them.

@scipantheist I don't seem tor remember naming names in my post. America, Russia, China, Switzerland, some guy in his garage, yes, I think these things should be banned before they even get wet, right along with drones, I don't care who is using them.

War and spying should never so easy as pushing buttons. Anybody wanting either, can put their neck on the line, or sit down, and leave everybody alone.

No, only about 25 years,

Only carriers and the newer classes of subs go this long until refueling. The 688s, at least, had a shorter cycle due to having a smaller plant than what is on a carrier.

I imagine this fuel-cell tech will be a nightmare for ASW peeps. The ones I have talked to say it is the diesel electric boats they worry about. I suppose this FC boat would be darn near silent.

They should develop fuel cell passenger aircraft with economy class seats capable of seating people taller than 175 cm so their knees aren't touching the back of the seat in front of them.

WilliB

Germany already has this type of submarine in service (Dolphin II class). They are just trying to re-develop existing technology instead of simply licensing it. More taxpayer money wasted.

Nope, first of all development of Dolphin II class was cancelled, second the Dolphin class is a manned type and not a UUV, third the main propulsion for the Dolphin class is diesel-electric and not a fuel-cell only sub.

Regarding nuclear power, there's no size given, but I would imagine it would be impractical to fit a reactor in anything "drone" size, and also potentially dangerous if something goes wrong.

That said, they might be able to used for the following, fitted with the appropriate sensors,

Surveillance and/or "sentry" duty (much cheaper in production, operation and lives than "normal" submarines) Assisting SAR and recovery Escort of civilian or military vessels. (Passive/active sonar as required)

There's a reason for this type of submarine: ultra-quiet operation.

People forget that a real nuclear submarine is not exactly quiet, especially when you have to run the reactor cooling system (either with water or molten sodium metal). That's why the Russian "Kilo" class submarines are potentially very dangerous, since by running on battery power alone they are very quiet submarines. With fuel cell power, that quiet operation can be extended for much longer periods.

Crush Them

No Crush Them when a military conflict errupts the first generation will be equipped with an explosive and will be programed to ram into the enemy.

HonestDictatorAug. 09, 2014 - 12:46PM JST Yeah, right. A fuel cell sub with a months running time over a nuclear-powered sub that runs longer than the lifespan of the entire crew put together.

Except that when a nuclear powered sub is hit by a depth charge or torpedo it blows up irradiating the area for generations. A fuel cell sub doesn't.

Now before you get all gung ho and say, "Ah HAH! That'll teach those commies, their oceans will be glowing!", remember two things.

The battle may not take place far from the U.S. or Japan. That means that you may end up nuking yourself (what an embarrassing way to go!)

Most of the oceans are connected. What happens in one place concerns us all. Yes the oceans are pretty darned big, but fish from, for example, Russia, don't stay in Russia, and may end up on your dinner plate.

Samurai Blue:

" Nope, first of all development of Dolphin II class was cancelled, second the Dolphin class is a manned type and not a UUV, third the main propulsion for the Dolphin class is diesel-electric and not a fuel-cell only sub. "

No idea where you get your information from, but a short google information will show you that the Dolphin class is not only in existance, but the Israeli navy is using a couple of those. The German (domestic) equivalent model is called "Type 212" and is in use by the German navy... google it. And yes, it has a diesel engine for backup, but fundamentally it is a fuel-cell system.

So again, this is not new technology, they want to re-develop something that is already in use in other countries.

WilliB

Dolphin class and Dolphin II class are two different project in which development of Dolphin II class was cancelled. Your original post clearly stated Dolphin II class not the Dolphin class. As for the diesel engine no it is not a back up since they use it as the main engine for fast manuver and charging the batteries during snorkelling mode at night. AIP can only provide enough electricity to propel the sub at around 4~8 knots and use it during the day.

They should also develop fuel cell aircraft.

SamuraiBlue:

" AIP can only provide enough electricity to propel the sub at around 4~8 knots and use it during the day. "

From Wikipedia: "In April 2006, U-32 sailed from the Baltic to Rota, Spain in a journey lasting two weeks, covering 1,500nm without surfacing or snorkelling." (U-32 is one of the Type 212 fuel-cell driven submarines built in Kiel, Germany).

"Two weeks under water, sailing from the Baltic to spain is a heck of a lot more than your claim of "use it during the day".

So again, this technology exists and has been in use by the German (and Italian) navies for years.

I said

Regarding nuclear power, there's no size given, but I would imagine it would be impractical to fit a reactor in anything "drone" size, and also potentially dangerous if something goes wrong.

Missed this in the article. D'oh.

The top-selling Yomiuri Shimbun reported that the unmanned, 10-metre (33-feet) long sub would be able to chart a pre-programmed course before returning to base.

Anyway, 10m seems too small for a nuke-powered sub, what with other components required. Correct me if I'm wrong, thanks.

@Frungy

You've raised good points but I think it's more likely the surrounding water would be irradiated minus the "explosion". If a sub is flooded, wouldn't the seawater prevent this? (And if at depth, pressure?)

Not impossible perhaps, but even if an unlikely sequence of events occurred for this to happen, would any "bang" be on the same level as a power plant? Still not good for the nearby environment, I'd agree.

Like I infer above, I'm not an expert on nuclear physics. So I welcome anyone setting me straight.

WilliB

A record for making record sake is basically meaningless. They would need to turn off most of the sensors off to maintain propulsion, air circulation and air condition for the personnel on board. Not really practical for a information gathering/war ship.

As I have posted earlier the one Japan is proposing is an UUV not needing those human comfort which is cutting edge technology.

Samuraiblue;

The underwater journey from Germany to Spain that I referenced was not a record-breaking attempt. If you look up the Wikipedia article (why don´t you?) you will see that later they actually made a record braking trial, where the fuel-cell sub stayed underwater for an additional week. So, obviously they had plenty of energy left.

I am only quoting this to show that fuel-cell technology for subs exists, is proven, and is in use. I dont dispute that they will develop new technology for this drone submarine, but the fuel-cell drive is not something new.