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Debris found in search for GSDF copter presumed to have crashed into sea

38 Comments
By MARI YAMAGUCHI

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38 Comments
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Oh dear, this is sad news, the report does not say anything about survivors, only reckage.

7 ( +10 / -3 )

Tragic. Sorry for the loss of your warriors.

-7 ( +8 / -15 )

The wreckage that has been recovered would indicate a very violent impact...

0 ( +8 / -8 )

Where that happened? In Ukraine, no in Japan. During peace time with no war.

-21 ( +7 / -28 )

Any survivors or signs of them or their belongings??

Sad news for the families and friends of these soldiers.

6 ( +9 / -3 )

Japanese news said one of the pax was a "shidancho" meaning division commander, most likely a general. Not positive about JSDF though.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

Awful news. Fingers crossed that survivors can be found.

Where that happened? In Ukraine, no in Japan. During peace time with no war.

You realize accidents happen, right?

4 ( +12 / -8 )

must be due to the faulty military helicopters they are forced to buy by the US

Sigh. Mitsubishi Heavy Industries manufactures UH-60s for the JGSDF. Japan is free to buy whomever's helicopter they choose and are frequent customers for Eurocopter products. However for a battlefield transport helicopter the Blackhawk has proven to be probably the best one can buy.

https://www.mhi.com/products/defense/uh60j_rescue_helicopter.html

6 ( +14 / -8 )

Terrible news. I was thinking they should have EPIRBs onboard but after reading the above about wreckage I am not as optimistic about possible survivors as previously.

0 ( +7 / -7 )

Yes very concerning, potentially a tragedy to tge famikies involved, you go to work, your family looks forward to your return every single day.

However for a battlefield transport helicopter the Blackhawk has proven to be probably the best one can buy.

+1, Blackhawk = proven troop transport, the Australian are dumping tgeir Euro Taipans, in favour of Blackhawks.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/dec/10/australia-to-dump-taipan-helicopters-and-buy-black-hawks-from-us-amid-china-fears

3 ( +8 / -5 )

Where that happened? In Ukraine, no in Japan. During peace time with no war.

Soldiers die in peace time as well. It is called training accidents. Same thing in the west.

9 killed in Army Black Hawk helicopter crash in Kentucky

Two Army helicopters crashed in southwestern Kentucky during a routine training mission.

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/03/30/casualties-reported-after-army-helicopters-crash-in-kentucky-00089613

5 ( +10 / -5 )

The government is aggressively building up its defense capability in southwestern Japan in response to China's increasingly assertive military activity in the region, including Taiwan.

Even in a story about a disaster like this, they manage to fit in some anti China propaganda.

-10 ( +12 / -22 )

RIP brave service members

6 ( +8 / -2 )

Same old story. Another piece of defective US-made aircraft dumped on Japan crashed.

-21 ( +6 / -27 )

@meiyouwenti

If recoverable no doubt there will be an investigation as to what went wrong. That airframe is used around the world so your argument that it is defective US made doesn’t quite resonate.

RIP to those lost.

13 ( +15 / -2 )

Even in a story about a disaster like this, they manage to fit in some anti China propaganda.

How sensitive you are, Mr Kipling. I didn't even notice it. Are you Chinese, yourself?

8 ( +16 / -8 )

MeiyouwentiToday  10:14 am JST

Same old story. Another piece of defective US-made aircraft dumped on Japan crashed.

 The UH-60JA Black Hawk helicopter is made by Mitsubishi Heavy Industries in Japan under license from Sikorsky.

12 ( +14 / -2 )

Mr KiplingToday  09:49 am JST

The government is aggressively building up its defense capability in southwestern Japan in response to China's increasingly assertive military activity in the region, including Taiwan.

Even in a story about a disaster like this, they manage to fit in some anti China propaganda.

There is no "propaganda" here, simply widely known facts. And it is pertinent to the article because of the location of the accident.

5 ( +13 / -8 )

Those accidents most probably can’t be fully avoided as we humans are destined to be on flat land, we are not mountain deer, cannot impersonating birds flying in the sky and also cannot mimic fish swimming or diving in the sea with our ships. But, and that’s what’s the tragedy here, we could minimize the consequences of our permanent failures when overestimating biological capabilities. So the questions here are not, why that helicopter fell down, that’s physically normal for ‘non-birds’ flying objects, but did they wear swim vests, does the helicopter send signals, for example LW frequency pings when in the sea or when flying under radar detectable heights, are there some cheap sensors installed so it detects sea water around, does then anything automatically open, doors, windows, hatches, whatever, so that they immediately can leave the wreck and then swim to emergency boats ( I think I saw a bag of such an inflatable mini rescue tool in the news), instead of being trapped, and so on. I guess, many answers are no. It’s sophisticated and extremely expensive, but the simplest things quite probably are intentionally or incidentally ‘forgotten’, although being told them hundreds of times before.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

It might seem heartless, but I really hope it was an accident.

And not the unthinkable.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Taiwan is a province of China. It is currently controlled by the Republic of China government which fled the Mainland in 1949. Both the Republic of China (Taiwan) and the People's Republic of China consider Taiwan a province of China.

But enough about China, RIP Japanese servicemen.

-14 ( +2 / -16 )

So, what exactly did happen here? The door is marked as emergency exit. I assume it was opened before the crash, and the crew possibly managed to get out?

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Still potential for survivors to be found, although the apparent condition of the debris indicates a very violent contact with the water.

The UH-60 has a proven safety record and most accidents involving this aircraft are related to poor weather conditions, pilot error or a combination of both. It may be a long time before the cause of this accident is determined. Those commenters here calling it US made junk really have no idea what they are talking about.

And no, Taiwan is not part of China, just as the Senkaku, Spratly and numerous other small islands in the S. China Sea are not Chinese territory. Just claiming something to be yours does not make it so.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

Simply hilarious how so many carry on. This is a map published by the Republic of China (Taiwan) government. It clearly designates the island of Taiwan as Taiwan Province (臺灣省). The larger characters on the left read Administrative Map of the Republic of China (中華民國行政區域圖).

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c8/Taiwan2014.svg

Just to bring it back to the content of this article. Miyako Island is not on the map.

-4 ( +5 / -9 )

R I P

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Taiwan is a province of China. It is currently controlled by the Republic of China government which fled the Mainland in 1949. Both the Republic of China (Taiwan) and the People's Republic of China consider Taiwan a province of China.

Simply hilarious how so many carry on. The PRC will never control a free Taiwan. Mainland thugs would consider it an act of war if Taiwan removed "China" from its constitution.

8 ( +12 / -4 )

No signs of fire or explosion on the retrieved objects shown so far.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Tragic accident. Once a week or so two of those copters fly over my house. They can be heard from quite some distance.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

There seems to be a very significant failure rate for helicopters, at least that's the impression I get from reading the news.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

It might seem heartless, but I really hope it was an accident.

And not the unthinkable.

From an old helicopter pilot (me) who was also a detachment safety officer, 90% of aircraft mishaps are due to pilot error. But even the majority of the ones that are caused by system failures are traceable to human error either on the production line or during repair.

I can also tell you from experience that if you have a glassy sea surface with an overcast sky where your horizon just disappears or you are flying at night it is incredibly easy to simply fly into the water. I still have seat fabric in my nether region from a night long ago making a night instrument approach to a frigate and caught the little yellow light on the radar altimeter flashing as I descended below 25 feet above the water. Yikes. I yanked and armload of collective and waved that approach off. Stuff like this bites even the most experienced pilots. It's an unforgiving way to make a living.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

There seems to be a very significant failure rate for helicopters, at least that's the impression I get from reading the news.

Our joke among helo pilots was that a helicopter is a loose collection of parts flying the same way on the same day. A bit of an exaggeration but if you ever saw the videos the Naval Safety Center took with a camera mounted on a rotor head aimed down one of the blades, the amount of monkey motion going on up there will cause you to suck your flight suit up your pooper. I remember all of us looking at each other thinking "look at what's going on over our heads when we fly!"

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Civilian aircraft have a larger safety envelope than military ones. Military pilot training standards and mil specs on components are usually higher to compensate. Military craft are designed with other priorities, so the margin for error is smaller. And flying is unforgiving. It's not like a video game or the Starship Enterprise.

Planes rarely drop out of the sky. If their engines fail they become gliders. Helicopters are inherently less safe. If they have a fault, they turn into sofas, sometimes revolving at disorientatingly high speed.

Some parts show little to no sign of wear until they actually fail. And militaries tend to be more secretive about failures than commercial airlines.

So military choppers sit uncomfortably near the wrong end of the safety spectrum.

Ultimately, this is a human tragedy. Those on board had families, so forget about geopolitics for a bit.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Ultimately, this is a human tragedy. Those on board had families, so forget about geopolitics for a bit.

Thank you for the coherent comment.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

There is still possibility crew may have survived. Horrible accident.

Sometimes my normal comments removed saying it was not relevant. How come the comment of deanzaZZR was allowed saying Taiwan is Chinese. Is it relevant to the news?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Do it have a transponder,so they can locate it,or a Black box,

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Do it have a transponder,so they can locate it,or a Black box,

Depends. A naval helicopter that spends most of its time over water flying off ships usually has an ELT and each crew member will have the equivalent on their waterproof survival radio included in the vest they wear that carries flotation equipment, a strobe light and other survival gear. An Army helicopter that usually spends no time over the ocean might not be so well equipped for water survival. Even if the helo has an ELT it might not be able to transmit through any depth of water. Our helicopters never carried a "black box" flight recorder but I don't know if newer helos do.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Shot down ?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

The story does not mention that the helicopter was investigating a Chinese military ship at the time it vanished. There must be suspicion it was shot down.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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