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Japanese marines conduct drill on island seen as vulnerable to China

60 Comments
By Tim Kelly

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Today's anti China propaganda piece..... China is not going to "invade" Japan ever....

-14 ( +15 / -29 )

I'm no military planner, but Tokunoshima does not appear to be strategically placed for an invasion of either Taiwan or Japan.

0 ( +8 / -8 )

I'm no military planner, but Tokunoshima does not appear to be strategically placed for an invasion of either Taiwan or Japan.

It's called training. I dont think they need to be training on the shores of Naha!

10 ( +16 / -6 )

I don't know that training will be effective or not but public seems to enjoy that show.

-14 ( +3 / -17 )

I'm waiting for the day when the face camouflage can be a tattoo. Braveheart is an excellent movie.

-12 ( +2 / -14 )

Prepare for what? China stops with the reincorporation of Taiwan. Then China and Japan will be true neighbors.

-17 ( +4 / -21 )

deanzaZZRToday 07:49 am JST

Prepare for what? China stops with the reincorporation of Taiwan. Then China and Japan will be true neighbors.

Only if China somehow didn't have the US oppose eliminating Taiwan. I don't think China will be that lucky.

6 ( +11 / -5 )

Mr KiplingToday 07:05 am JST

Today's anti China propaganda piece..... China is not going to "invade" Japan ever....

Your assumption is that Japan isn't drawn into a war with China ever...

7 ( +15 / -8 )

Article 6 of the Japan-U.S. Security Treaty (the Japanese version) says the U.S. is allowed for its Army, Navy and Air Force to station in Japan. There is no mention of the Marines.  

At any rate, it was formerly considered the U.S. Marins' responsibility to defend Japan's territory. That's why they are given large swaths of land for their use as bases plus many other perquisites.

It has been bilaterally agreed, though, that JSDF has primary responsibility to do what the U.S. Marines were supposed to do.

 Hence, this U.S. Marines-like drill by JSDF on Tokunoshima.

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

So between military funding and recent donations to a war that Japan has nothing to do with is around ¥45 trillion! I wonder how many aged care facilities could be built for that Japan! You know the ones I mean...the ones where the government helps take care of the elderly who gave you all their tax money to give away. All you are currently doing Mr Kashida is stirring the pot thats bringing unwanted attention to Japan in regards to conflict. I feel Mr Kashida you are not unlike Mr Putin in you actually would like to see japan at war.

-2 ( +6 / -8 )

Japan trying to show it's militaristic face of just an article fanning the anti- Xi propaganda?

-5 ( +6 / -11 )

voiceofokinawaToday  08:10 am JST

Article 6 of the Japan-U.S. Security Treaty (the Japanese version) says the U.S. is allowed for its Army, Navy and Air Force to station in Japan. There is no mention of the Marines. 

The USMC is a branch, but the US Navy and USMC are officially under one department.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

If anyone wants to learn about early Chinese history in Taiwan that of course includes the indigenous peoples as well as the Dutch and Japanese (there's a trade element here), the latest History of China Podcast covered this very topic. Search for History of China podcast, Qing 5: Taiwan Incognita, Pt.1.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Randy DaytonaToday 08:40 am JST

Only if China somehow didn't have the US oppose eliminating Taiwan. I don't think China will be that lucky.

China isn't interested in eliminating Taiwan

China wants Taiwan to agree to be part of the one China two systems autonomous region

Yes, China can have a smoldering rock at enormous cost. Not sure why they would bother with a fake two systems arrangement at that point.

4 ( +10 / -6 )

Mr KiplingToday 07:05 am JST

China is not going to "invade" Japan ever....

As long as the SDF, US forces, and politicians do their jobs properly. Hence the necessity of these alliances, security arrangements, and drills.

deanzaZZRToday 07:49 am JST

China stops with the reincorporation of Taiwan.

The CCP has never ruled Taiwan, so it cannot be "reincorporated" into its rule. Were the CCP to take Taiwan, it would be an illegal annexation. And if anyone thinks that Xi would stop at Taiwan, they are a fool.

AlongfortherideToday 08:25 am JST

I wonder how many aged care facilities could be built for that Japan!

Yes, the people and the government would much rather spend money on social care, housing, transport, education, hospitals, etc. Sadly, though, we have the totalitarian monster that is China on our doorstep (and often in our exclusive economic zone,) so we must be well prepared for aggression.

Randy DaytonaToday 08:40 am JST

China wants Taiwan to agree to be part of the one China two systems autonomous region

Which has been completely discredited by Xi's brutal suppression of Hong Kong, and so will never be accepted by the people of Taiwan. Given this, Xi has two main options (that I can see): 1) accept the status quo 2) try to take Taiwan by force. And given Xi's record of aggression, and his refusal to renounce the use of force, the world must be fully ready in case 2) happens.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

China has to increase penalties on Japan.

taiwan is not a Japanese territory.

even in case of a Chinese invasion, Japan can not stand with its Rice ball missile..

-10 ( +1 / -11 )

Article 6 of the Japan-U.S. Security Treaty (the Japanese version) says the U.S. is allowed for its Army, Navy and Air Force to station in Japan. There is no mention of the Marines.  

The Marines are part of the Department of the Navy.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

The USMC is a branch, but the US Navy and USMC are officially under one department.

You will also see if you look at the Navy Comptrollers public website that the budget for all USMC weapons, equipment and operations are paid for out of the US Navy budget. The Marine Corps does not have a separate stand alone budget like the Army, Air Force, Space Force (I try so hard not to giggle whenever I write that) and the Missile Defense Agency.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

@Isabelle And the Republic of China has never administered Tibet and Xinjiang yet the maps the ROC publishes show those areas as part of the Republic of China. See how that works?

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

what is reason for China to attack Japan with US heroes on its soil?

Two primary reasons and a possible third. Number one is retribution for WWII. Be honest, the IJA behaved atrociously in China, engaged in gratuitous barbarities and paybacks are a bi__h. Number two is strategic, having the first island chain controlled by nations hostile to China could contain China to its coasts and thwart its ability to project power abroad. With Japan including Okinawa and Taiwan under Chinese control China would have unrestricted access to the Pacific. And last if Japan was under Chinese control then South Korea would be impossible to defend. It too would soon fall to the communists.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

deanzaZZRToday 10:53 am JST

And the Republic of China has never administered Tibet and Xinjiang yet the maps the ROC publishes show those areas as part of the Republic of China.

Which maps? Link them.

Tsai's Taiwan does not lay claim to any part of mainland China (or its occupied territories,) as far as I'm aware. The DPP has stated clearly that Taiwan is an independent country, completely separate from mainland China.

https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2023/08/16/2003804803

Perhaps you're talking about historical claims. If so, they are irrelevant to the current situation.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

The photos show the news AAV7s they purchased from the US. These were famously used by the Argentine Marines in the Falklands conflict about 40 years ago. Interesting they are employing the (unloaded) Minimi of which their counterparts are phasing out (they've gone with the Trijicon optical sights) - but of course Brussels gave manufacturing rights - buttstock on the 20 is very SCAR-ish: FN is sneaking in. Mortar placement is obviously a photo op but much safer than another photo today.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

It’s not so much an Anti-China piece but more a we need the threat of war to justify defense budgets. Get Japan to open its shrinking contracting wallet more.

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

Article 6 of the Japan-U.S. Security Treaty (the Japanese version) says the U.S. is allowed for its Army, Navy and Air Force to station in Japan. There is no mention of the Marines.  

Article 6 of the Japan Us-Security Treaty, Japanese and English makes no mention of the Army, Navy, or Air Force either.

English nor Japanese state any of the forces by name. The MC is covered!

You must also be posting links to support your arguments, otherwise it's just hearsay!

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Peter Neit,

The USMC is a bona fide military service with its own chain of command; its general can be chair of the Joint Chiefs of Staff over Navy admirals; its ensign is different from that of the Navy. Historically, the U.S. Marines were a unit subsumed under the Navy all right, but today they are an independent military service on a par with the Navy, Army and Air Force.

The fact that they are put under the Department of the Navy at the Pentagon is only for convenience's sake and for historical and administrative reasons. The Department of the Navy is not a military body but an administrative one headed by a civilian secretary.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

Xi's brutal suppression of Hong Kong

Xi handled it perfectly. Squashed those Western funded rioters attempting to destabilize China. Did a great job with Xinjiang and exerted China’s right to defend itself from terrorists. The West absolutely supports the right to defend itself right?

-7 ( +2 / -9 )

The Marines are part of the Department of the Navy.

The treaty in neither Japanese nor English identify any branch of service directly. He is using trying to make an illogical point to support his theories.

The security treaty grants the use of the bases to the "air, land, and sea" forces of the United States.

Again, none are specifically mentioned, and if his ideas were "correct", then the Army, Navy, and Air Forces as well would be here "illegally" according to him, because they are not directly identified in the treaty.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

About the leathernecks, Harry Truman once said "The Marine Corps is the Navy's police force and as long as I am President that is what it will remain. They have a propaganda machine that is almost equal to Stalin's."

His def-sec attempted to disband them at the behest of his boss (who dropped two nukes). Unfortunately, it failed.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

Mr KiplingToday 07:05 am JST

Today's anti China propaganda piece..... China is not going to "invade" Japan ever....

This is a piece about Japan. If China never invades any of Japans islands, then it has absolutely nothing to worry about.

Prepare for what? China stops with the reincorporation of Taiwan.

China has no right to invade Taiwan. If it starts there it opens a can of worms it will have no control over.

Then China and Japan will be true neighbors.

China will only ever be a true and friendly neighbor when the CCP is gone for good and replaced with a true democracy. Until then it is nothing more than Chinese propaganda.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

@isabelle You make a solid point. Perhaps you are Taiwanese. I searched through the ROC government websites in English and Chinese and could not find a map which includes mainland territories. Perhaps the government in Taiwan should declare independence officially, wouldn't you agree?

Here's a link to an official ROC map from 1975 which includes all of PRC as well as Mongolia. https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ROC1979-05_National_Assembly_Secretariat_China_Map.pdf

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

quercetumToday 11:28 am JST

Xi handled it perfectly. Squashed those Western funded rioters attempting to destabilize China. Did a great job with Xinjiang and exerted China’s right to defend itself from terrorists.

Spoken like a true authoritarian.

Police violence, extrajudicial imprisonment, collusion with organized crime gangs, physical and sexual assault of detainees, and flagrant violation of both domestic and international law in Hong Kong; and genocide and forced labor in Xinjiang is "handling it perfectly."

Your post gives a very good insight into your world view.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

deanzaZZRToday 11:54 am JST

I searched through the ROC government websites in English and Chinese and could not find a map which includes mainland territories.

Here's a link to an official ROC map from 1975 which includes all of PRC as well as Mongolia.

Thank you for posting back, despite our diametrically-opposed viewpoints. Yes, 1975 was a very different world to today.

Perhaps the government in Taiwan should declare independence officially, wouldn't you agree?

Ideally, yes. In practice, no - as Xi would likely then invade: it is, after all, his stated policy.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

China wants Taiwan to agree to be part of the one China two systems autonomous region

And everyone has seen how this worked out with Hong Kong

5 ( +7 / -2 )

The Department of the Navy is not a military body but an administrative one headed by a civilian secretary.

FYI, so are the Departments of the Army and Air Force as well! None of which are identified or mentioned in the security treaty either.

The only thing noted in the treaty, in English and Japanese, is ground forces, (not Army, nor Dept of the Army) naval forces (not Navy, nor Department of the Navy) and air forces( not Air Force, nor Dept of the Air Force) and at the time of the treaties being written and the Marine Corp was under the Department of the Navy and did not exist as of yet, as a totally separate entity.

You have zero logical argument , as even you must know, that the treaties are valid in both Japanese and English, although you seem to think that Japanese takes precedence, it doesnt.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

@isabelle Civil wars work this way. There is no free pass. See Korea for another recent example.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

@Randy Daytona I'm not expert on the history of Taiwan, but I believe the Spanish had a small, short lived fort established in the north near present day Taibei. No Portuguese as far as I know. The Dutch were further south near present day Tainan.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Plenty of beaches with access through channels between the reefs down here.

And plenty of unnecessary concrete ports in sparsely inhabited hamlets to dock in.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Randy DaytonaToday 12:56 pm JST

Taiwan isn't an independent nation

It is according to its government. Read the link I posted, and anything else you like on the DPP's present stance. You will find the same information.

Taiwan still claims to be the rightful government of all China - thus Taiwan is obviously China

No, it doesn't. Again, read the link and anything else on the DPP's present stance.

Years ago, it did. Now (under the DPP,) it doesn't.

I mean really !

Yes, the CCP's refusal to accept reality is exasperating, isn't it?

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Yubaru,

FYI, so are the Departments of the Army and Air Force as well! None of which are identified or mentioned in the security treaty either.

You hit the nail on the head by suggesting that it's not departments in the Pentagon that determines the service-hood of the Army, Navy, Marine Corps and Air Force. It's Title 10 of the U.S. Code that does the job.  

As I pointed out, the Japanese version of the security treaty, which has the equal legal force to the English version, says only the Army, Navy and Air Force are allowed to use bases and facilities in Japan. Again, no mention of the Marine Corps.                                            

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Japan where is depending even daily necessities on import from China shows military drill, despite no afford to war.

-9 ( +0 / -9 )

@Mr. Kipling

China is not going to "invade" Japan ever....

Japan fears Chinese invasion of Diaoyu Islands, which China has sworn to take back.

Diaoyu Islands legallys belongs to the Republic of China per Japan's acceptance of surrender terms, but Japan has failed to follow through on this obligation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1943_Cairo_Declaration#Text

all the territories Japan has stolen from the Chinese, such as Manchuria, Formosa, and The Pescadores, shall be restored to the Republic of China. 

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

The USMC is a bona fide military service with its own chain of command; its general can be chair of the Joint Chiefs of Staff over Navy admirals; its ensign is different from that of the Navy. Historically, the U.S. Marines were a unit subsumed under the Navy all right, but today they are an independent military service on a par with the Navy, Army and Air Force.

That is not true. They are not an independent military branch but part of the Department of the Navy. Look I work some USMC programs and know how it works. Don't try and fool anyone. Their weapons programs are managed by Navy civilians in many cases. Their missiles, when not a joint program between the Navy and Army, are developed, procured, maintained and managed by Naval Air Systems Command. The Marines do not have their own similar organization. They do not have their own inventory of many weapons but they pull from Navy stocks. I have direct hands on with this. Their budget is tied to that of the Navy. They do not have their own budget. Moreover in the past couple of years the Marine Corps is becoming much more closely tied to to the Navy as they completely change their mission from traditional land warfare to maritime warfare, small landing parties taking small islands, setting up anti ship missiles and coordinating action with naval units to trap an enemy naval force in a crossfire. The Marines got rid of all of their tanks and most of their 155mm field guns as their new mission set has no need for these weapons. Instead they are buying cruise missiles on robotic launchers and the Navy is developing a new small landing ship for the Marines.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Japan fears Chinese invasion of Diaoyu Islands, which China has sworn to take back.

Diaoyu Islands legallys belongs to the Republic of China per Japan's acceptance of surrender terms, but Japan has failed to follow through on this obligation.

Except that the Senkaku Islands are part of the Ryukyu chain. They were under US occupation until 1971 when the US returned them to Japan. China has no legal claim to them.

In any event it is galling that the CCP under Mao not only didn't fight the Japanese but rather told Japanese forces where ROC units were operating so they would attack them. ROC forces bore the brunt of the war against Japan while the coward Mao hid out in the north awaiting the USSRs entry into the war.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

As I pointed out, the Japanese version of the security treaty, which has the equal legal force to the English version, says only the Army, Navy and Air Force are allowed to use bases and facilities in Japan. Again, no mention of the Marine Corps.

The Japanese translation references "land forces". That could be both the US Army and US Marine Corps.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Desert Tortoise,

The English version of the security treaty refers to "land, naval and air forces" as regards the expressions in question. 

The wording in the English version is very ambiguous. For example, as you say, "land force" or "naval force" could be either Marines or Army infantrymen as was shown in the formation of U.S. forces in the Battle of Okinawa. 

And so, negotiators of the treaty from both countries must have decided to eliminate such ambiguity from the Japanese version. It curtly and unambiguously said that only the U.S. Army, Navy and Air Force are allowed to be stationed in Japan.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

And so, negotiators of the treaty from both countries must have decided to eliminate such ambiguity from the Japanese version. It curtly and unambiguously said that only the U.S. Army, Navy and Air Force are allowed to be stationed in Japan.

And the Marines are part of the Navy. It has never been otherwise. I know because I work some of their programs, a Navy guy working weapons programs for the Marines. That is how it works. Been doing it a while. Their pilots go through the same training in the same flight schools I matriculated and are designated Naval Aviators when they graduate. I trained with lots of Marines.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Desert Tortoise,

 And the Marines are part of the Navy.

The Marines are part of the Navy, or, maybe, vice versa, when both are engaged in attacking and invading enemy land. That doesn't guarantee that the U.S. Marine Corps is a branch unit of the U.S. Navy.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

"Historically, marines serve as a navy's ground troops. In fact, the word "marine" is the French word for sea, which may be why the French military historically called English troops — who all had to arrive by sea — "marines." x"

0 ( +1 / -1 )

It's very interesting that there are many Americans, let alone service members themselves, who don't know which force (service) the Marine Corps is part of. Historically, the U.S. Marines were part of the Navy all right, but today it is an independent service with its own chain of command and rank names. 

The Marine One helicopter, which is exclusively used by a sitting U.S. President, is not a Navy helicopter. The Marines' highest ranking officer is a General, not an Admiral. And he can be Chair of Joint Chiefs of Staff over Navy Admirals. 

The Japanese marines, on the other hand, belong to the Ground SDF, the Army, not the Marine SDF, the Navy. So may be marines in the U.K. Force and forces in many other countries.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

There's been a years-long debate in U.S. Congress to rename the "Department of the Navy" in the Pentagon as the "Department of the Navy and the Marine Corps." The proposal to change the nomenclature seems very natural in view of the fact that the U.S. Marine Corps has credible records as an independent service.

The late Sen. John McCain, a veteran Navy pilot, is said to have been opposed to the idea of renaming, for he must have feared that it might hurt the glorious U.S. Navy. The majority of the U.S. Senate Committee on Armed Services, which McCain chaired, supported the renaming, though.

All this boils down to show that the Marines are not subsidiary to the Navy.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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