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Japanese whalers leave for Pacific

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Here we go again ... let the cat-and-mouse chase begin!

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Scientific research? Here are the most important scientific discoveries by the Japanese research on whales. Whales are bigger than people. Yes it's true. Whales eat fish. Incredible new discovery by top Japanese experts. Killing whales is very profitable although that is secondary to their research. Whales do not taste good so we force feed it to school children so they will acquire the taste. Eat it and shut up kid. Whale meat is expensive at sushi bars in Tokyo. Whale meat can be quick frozen for transport to Japan. Anyone who interferes with Japanese research whaling is an enemy of science. Sounds like real research by the Japanese to benefit the mankind.

8 ( +14 / -6 )

Japan must have the lousiest whale scientists in the world, since American and British whale researchers have published numerous papers on whales without killing any. Nobody has even heard of Japanese whale research... that does not include soy sauce.

Japanese ministry officials are liars. Not news per se, but needed to be voiced.

13 ( +15 / -3 )

And 99% of the Japanese public don't care or aren't even aware.

12 ( +13 / -1 )

Whale meat is disgusting! Now Japan has an open ocean to kill as many whales as possible. Think Sea Sheppard is out of action with the arrest of its founder.

-2 ( +6 / -8 )

Happy whaling guys! And with the arrest of Paul Watson hope you enjoy not having to deal with any confrontations.

-8 ( +6 / -14 )

I think everyone can see the transparency of the lie they call 'research.' It's complete BS. If others have been able to successfully research whales without killing them, it's a shame the IWC can't close that loophole.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

Commercial whaling is banned under an international treaty but Japan has since 1987 used a loophole to carry out lethal research in the name of science.

Please. The below is taken from the Whaling FAQ on the Embassy of Japan in Australia website. The Japanese government makes no secret of the fact that research is being undertaken with the objective of resuming commercial whaling.

Q2. What is the purpose of Japan's Whale Research programs?

Japan has conducted research whaling programs so that we could collect and analyze scientific information necessary for the sustainable use of whales.

Some people should also read this.

Q1. What is the view of the Japanese Government on the conservation of whales?

There are more than 80 species of whales or cetaceans in the world. While some species are endangered, others are overabundant. The Japanese Government strongly supports the protection of endangered species such as Blue Whales and Bowhead Whales.

On the other hand, we consider that sustainable use of some whale species should be allowed like other living marine resources that are useful for humans such as fish and shellfish, if best scientific evidence shows that those species are not endangered.

Although we understand many people do not want to consider whales as marine resources or food, we believe each society should respect the cultures of others, keeping in mind the fact that different eating habits and food cultures have developed throughout history in the divergent environments among different countries.

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

There is always no cat-and-mouse chase game in the Pacific. Because SS don't go chase Japanese whalers there. They would catch 260 without any trouble.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

I really really wish they would stop doing this. Why would they want to eat whale (or dolphin for that matter) anyway when it's full of mercury?

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Anyone who brakes something to find out how it works has left the path of wisdom.

7 ( +11 / -4 )

They would catch 260 without any trouble.

Actually, that is not quite true because the whale numbers in the northern Pacific are already depleted it will be quite difficult for them to fill their quota.

And, sperm whales are toothed whales, which makes their meat just as toxic as dolphin meat. It is strange how this information is missing from the Japanese "cough" research.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

I think the movement against whaling is much bigger than Paul Watson. He's has donated his face and sacrificed his way of life for the cause however it is still a very active movement by environmentalists.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Marine biologist Stephen Palumbi smuggled a portable laboratory to Japan to test the whale meat sold in supermarkets. He found toxic whale meat, whale meat that was misslabeled and "whale" meat that wasn't even from a whale.

Regrettably he chose not to go public but to "inform politely" the officials of the findings. They must have had a good and long laugh at the expense of the poor naive sap (and of course, Japanese tax payers).

TED Talk with Stephen Palumbi: http://tinyurl.com/7wm6ene

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Marine biologist Stephen Palumbi smuggled a portable laboratory to Japan to test the whale meat sold in supermarkets.

He must be mistaken. He did not have to smuggle it in Japan. Any scientists can freely bring any laboratory testers to examine any food in Japan.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Why in the world do people think they need to eat whale meat? Isn`t there already a million or so tons in deep storage at the moment.....JP government are trying to sell it off at give way prices and encouraging schools to use it in lunches....the mentality of it all escapes me...totally diabolical.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

How much is this costing the tax payer? Including the cash gifts.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

I think I and anyone usually don't care about foreign countries' taxpayers money. I just wonder why foreigners care about Japan's taxpayers money for whaling. Many countries spend a great amount of taxpayers money for heavy weapons to kill humans.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

kwatt - I just wonder why foreigners care about Japan's taxpayers money for whaling.

Cos we pay bloody taxes here too! Thus, making it our money!

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Its the Japanese governments pathetic nationalist attempt to poke the eye of the Westerner, they dont give a damn about the fact almost noone eats the stuff, that it might contain mercury, or that they could be endangered. Japan does not need it at any level with its economic diversity. Its sickening. And those that think they have an argument for it say its Japanese culture, and that Westerners have no idea -reality check, we evil westerners had a culture of whaling from atleast 1000 years ago but gave it up to protect the whale. Some Japanese clothes need whale bone -so did corsets and some more.

As to taxpayers money being used, yes it might be used to kill humans, but its not going to wipe the human race off the earth for good.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

I would love to get my hands on these documents containing evidence of their research. If it takes you 260 dead whales to do some scientific research either your prodigiously stupid or you're a liar. This kinda reminds me of the movie "The Shining" when Jack told his wife Wendy "Don't worry Wendy, I'm not going to kill you.... I'm going to bash your fckin brain in"!

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

I just wonder why foreigners care about Japan's taxpayers money for whaling

simple, BECAUSE THEY ARE WASTING MY HARD EARNED CA$H!! thats why!

2 ( +6 / -4 )

Cos we pay bloody taxes here too! Thus, making it our money!

You are respectable one of whaler supporters, aren't you? I'm glad to hear it.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

GW - You too!

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

we evil westerners had a culture of whaling from atleast 1000 years ago but gave it up to protect the whale

That is not correct. They did not give it up to protect whales. They did not have to hunt whales any more because of abundant crude oil found instead of whale oil. If they did not find crude oil, they still would continue to hunt whales for oil.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

kwatt: "He must be mistaken. He did not have to smuggle it in Japan. Any scientists can freely bring any laboratory testers to examine any food in Japan."

You're joking, right? That's like saying Japanese scientists are allowed to go to the US to test cattle for Mad Cow.

"I think I and anyone usually don't care about foreign countries' taxpayers money. I just wonder why foreigners care about Japan's taxpayers money for whaling."

Tax money in Japan is not just raised from Japanese people, kwatt, and to automatically assume so is incredibly xenophobic and even insulting. Now, VOTING, we are not allowed to do -- but if we don't pay taxes we cannot stay, or can even be imprisoned. Even if we DIDN'T pay taxes, we are still allowed to have an opinion no the matter.

"You are respectable one of whaler supporters, aren't you? I'm glad to hear it."

What a poor retort. Stating that foreigners pay taxes is not at all saying we support whaling. Whaling is a disgusting practice and entirely unnecessary in this day and age -- especially under the guise of 'scientific research'. If Japan honestly believes it's undergoing science by killing whales in order to count them they have the poorest and most outdated science in the world -- and the funniest part is that when you point this fact out to pro-whalers they always fall back on the "it's ancient Japanese culture!" argument, completely contradicting their claims that it's for science.

Anyway, time again for Japan's 'ancient traditions' to be carried out with old diesel ships in areas FAR from Japan, with funds taken from Tohoku relief money.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

with funds taken from Tohoku relief money.

Please explain to me how any money is being diverted from Tohoku, and I will give any number of other examples of spending for which you could easily but wrongly say the same. I do hope you are still not confusing or even relating money donated to non-government aid bodies with money spent by the national government.

Whaling is a disgusting practice

No one is forcing you to watch it, just as no one forces you to think about where your steak came from.

and entirely unnecessary in this day and age

According to you it would seem.

especially under the guise of 'scientific research'

You have got it the wrong way around. It is the research which must be conducted first, before commercial whaling of sustainable species can resume.

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

@smithinjapan

I know the US has a strict rule and will never allow foreign scientists to test it, but not Japan it is easier allowable as far as I know. Whatever you say, it seems that Japan can hunt certain amount of whales for the research as long as it abides by the IWC rule.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

and the funniest part is that when you point this fact out to pro-whalers they always fall back on the "it's ancient Japanese culture!" argument, completely contradicting their claims that it's for science.

Oh now that's funny - the concept that culture and modern technology cannnot co-exist. Why would you even relate the two? You do realise the Japanese are using science to validate population numbers, not to validate culture, don't you?

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

Paul Watson may be the face and (very loud) voice of Sea Shepherd but as netninja points out, the movement is much bigger; anyone - including the whalers- who thinks they won't be active while he's in jail can think again.

Not sure what is meant by the northwestern Pacific- isn't that where Japan is anyway? Would be interesting if they stayed in their own territorial waters... part of SSCS's argument has always been that the Japanese hunt in international waters. Awaiting developments on this one.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

completely contradicting their claims that it's for science

smithinjapan, do you think they are "doing it for science"? For the "sake of science"? You do realise the government is pushing for the resumption of commercial whaling, don't you?

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

The futile and embarassing face of Japanese Nationalist pride on display for the world to cringe at. Ignorance, and selfishness personified. What a disgrace.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Paul Watson

The futile and embarassing face of cultural imperialist sentiment on display for the world to cringe at. Ignorance, or worse yet lies and other disinformation, and selfishness personified. What a disgrace.

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

I know that the Captain of the Sea Sheppard is in jail, but I am really hoping that one of his people will get in there and do the job in his place. Go get them Sea Sheppard.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

You do realise the government is pushing for the resumption of commercial whaling

Do YOU realize that they're making the data to fit the desired results? That's not making science, that's faking it.

Anyway, it's a lose-lose situation for the Japanese, since J-gov continuously believes that you can obfuscate and force decades-old propaganda down people's throats also abroad. That doesn't work for non-Japanese. They only see that Japanese are lying, when it's just J-gov (and their burrowers).

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

whale is delicious and european countries practice commercial whaling and so do the native peoples of the artic north america and asia.

should be good whaling while sea shepherd's head terrorist is in german jail.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

@DoLittleBeLate Right on!

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

To subsidise this nonsense with taxpayers money is obscene given the situation in Tohoku. Whale is delicious, eh? If you look at how much of this meat sits in storage, demand doesn't seem to be too healthy.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

daijoboots: " I do hope you are still not confusing or even relating money donated to non-government aid bodies with money spent by the national government."

Why does the government have that money to spend? because other nations donated money to be used in lieu of government misspending. It'd be like if I have a $10,000 or so debt and because someone else gives me $100 to put towards it I figure I can spend $100 of my next paycheque on things other than the debt because it's "found money". So yes, they ARE taking money from relief funds, they are just putting lipstick on it and calling it 'pretty'.

(re: whaling being unnecessary) "According to you it would seem."

Okay, I'll bite. What's neccessary about it, then?

"It is the research which must be conducted first,"

And yet in a later comment you point out yourself it is clearly not for the 'sake of science'. More contradictions from the pro-whaling crowd.

"Oh now that's funny - the concept that culture and modern technology cannnot co-exist. Why would you even relate the two?"

I never said that, I said the JAPANESE people who argue for whaling ultimately fall back on the 'cultural tradition' argument after clearly trying, and failing, to defend the 'necessity' of the science. When they can no longer defend their arguments, they scream 'Imperialization' and 'Japan bashing', etc., and then finally, 'if you don't like it, leave' (as though Japan itself were not sending the ships into international waters and sanctuaries). What's more, if they claim they are conducting whaling in international waters because it's an 'ancient tradition', not only is a load of crap (how many hundreds of years have they been using the current ships to go to the Southern Ocean to whale, Daijo?), but it doesn't fit in the IWC loophole Japan exploits.

"You do realise the Japanese are using science to validate population numbers, not to validate culture, don't you?"

I realize their killing numbers to claim those numbers exist, and lying about the actual intention for whaling. Saying, "There's one! kill it!" has nothing to do with validating any number than the chequebooks of a few, greedy old government subsidies codgers, before it's forcefed to children in school lunches of course (well, to be fair, some towns have stopped forcing it on kids after their mayors were forced to check mercury levels in the meat as well as hair samples from residents).

"No it really won't be, regardless of your attempts at cultural imperialism."

Ah! There's the 'imperialism' comment out -- you're not far from the bottom of the barrel. And both you and DoLittleBeLate are BOTH correct: it's lose-lose for Japan, but a big win for... what percentage of the population are whalers?

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

daijoboots: By the way, since they conduct their whaling in international waters, how many scientific papers have they published so far this year? Last year? Aside from "they taste better with soy sauce than mayonnaise" and "There were five whales in this pod... after we killed them there were none", what important discoveries did they make?

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

sunhawk: "whale is delicious and european countries practice commercial whaling and so do the native peoples of the artic north america and asia."

Quick question: where do those other nations (and it's not 'European countries' as though many participate, it's Norway and Iceland) conduct their whaling? And do they lie and say it's for science, then cry 'cultural imperialism!' when they can't defend their initially and clearly stated reason for whaling?

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

whale is delicious and european countries practice commercial whaling and so do the native peoples of the artic north america and asia.

But would you let your kids eat it? Growing evidence of the health dangers of eating whale and dolphin meat are at last being taken seriously by the authorities in the Faroe Islands where each year a major dolphin slaughter (or grind) takes place. Entire pods of long finned pilot whales and other dolphins including pregnant mothers and calves, are driven into small bays and slaughtered. The average death toll tops 1,000 dolphins annually. The last one, in May this year, saw 220 pilot whales killed. Recent research in both Japan and the United States into populations that regularly eat produce from whales and dolphins has provided evidence of additional health risks associated with consumption, on top of that already obtained in the Faroes. This earlier research, reported in the New Scientist in 2008, found that Faroese people who have regularly consumed pilot whale faced several health risks including foetal damage to the development of the nervous and neurological systems and to the immune system of children. It also revealed an increased risk of Parkinson’s disease. The risks are present because of the high levels in the oceans of persistent organic pollutants (POPs), a deadly mix of plastics and other chemical wastes that will never totally degrade. These find their way up the marine food chain, multiplying in ever increasing amounts until they are most dense within the bodies of the largest marine mammals and fish – the apex predators. Full story: http://www.peopleandplanet.net/?lid=29910&section=35&topic=23

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Why does the government have that money to spend? because other nations donated money to be used in lieu of government misspending

Hmm emotion overriding logic and evidence. Funds for whaling (insignificant in percentage terms) had been approved before the Great East Japan Earthquake. That included funds for increased security against the eco-terrorists, who you would think would have backed off after the earthquake and tsunami, but no, the eco-terrorists just rolled on ahead with their own agenda. If you want decreased spending on whaling, please try to talk some sense into the eco-terrorists, and remind them that not everyone on earth has to share their religion, so they can stop banging on doors trying to convince people that their values and opinions are right. But as I alluded to before, what would make you think that it is the funds for whaling that are "diverting funds from Tohoku"? The answer is your bias. There are much bigger fish in the sea but you can't see that and you wrongly opt for the easy target.

Okay, I'll bite. What's neccessary about it, then?

Was it necessary for you to eat that steak?

"It is the research which must be conducted first," And yet in a later comment you point out yourself it is clearly not for the 'sake of science'. More contradictions from the pro-whaling crowd.

No, just thinking errors on your part. I will try to spell this out for you as simply as possible. Japan is not hunting whales for scientific research itself, but to use that research for the resumption of commercial whaling.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

GO GO JAPAN!!!

I love whale meat. It is one of the most delicious dishes in all of Japanese cuisine. This is our traditional way of living, our traditional food for thousands of years, and we will never stop whaling. Even if all the whales were gone, we would send a ship after them.

As Japanese, we must eat whale in order to properly connect to our ancestors and rich, ancient history of the oldest, deepest and proudest culture in the world. Every time we are told to stop whaling by the outsiders, the cultural imperialists, we win gain more support for our cause as Japanese resolve hardens like steel to never give in. Never give up. They want to destroy our cultural identity but we are too strong. Too Japanese, too strong.

Unstoppable.

-7 ( +3 / -10 )

by "research" they mean, "how many do we need to kill to wipe out a species"

I'm kinda glad these whales have high levels of mercury etc - with a bit of luck they killers will be wiped out before the whales.

do they still feed whale to kids at school ? if true that's sad.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Hojo Soun,

Please explain why the majority of Japanese don't in fact eat whale flesh? I don't know a single person who does and those who I have asked tell me they dislike the taste and some even oppose the whaling culture. There are more than 6,000 metric tons of whale flesh in cold storage which will mostly end up in cat food.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

There are more than 6,000 metric tons of whale flesh in cold storage which will mostly end up in cat food.

I'm not sure how much tons of whale meat in the cold storage there are, but all meat will never be ended up in cat or dog food. Whale meat are constantly frozen at -50 degree and can possibly be used for emergency food.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

On the other hand, we consider that sustainable use of some whale species should be allowed like other living marine resources that are useful for humans such as fish and shellfish, if best scientific evidence shows that those species are not endangered.

That's not research.

As Japanese, we must eat whale in order to properly connect to our ancestors and rich, ancient history of the oldest, deepest and proudest culture in the world. Every time we are told to stop whaling by the outsiders, the cultural imperialists, we win gain more support for our cause as Japanese resolve hardens like steel to never give in. Never give up. They want to destroy our cultural identity but we are too strong. Too Japanese, too strong.

I have a lot of respect for Japanese culture, but what was said there is utter rubbish! That's like saying to preserve my own culture I must paint myself blue and run around the mountains stark naked and attacking foreigners who come to Scotland.

Rubbish mate, utter rubbish.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

@Hojo Soun,

A famous supporter of whaling told me several years ago that the ships were starting to find birth deformities in the whales. But that might be a bit difficult to pick up for a Japanese impersonator.

While the job protection angle might carry some water, tourism (whale watching, for example) would give these guys a much better quality of life. That is, if their family's want them around..

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Unless they make some new friends in Russia or N. Korea, I seriously doubt Sea Shepherd could ever do anything serious to hinder Japanese NW Pacific whaling. The whole reason SSCS have been as effective as they have been in the Antarctic is the Australia and New Zealand governments' seemingly lax attitudes toward enforcement of certain maritime laws which benefits both whalers and "protesters" alike.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Japanese whalers faced a series of high-seas confrontations with anti-whaling activists in the Antarctic Ocean, but have not so far experienced any violent resistance in the Pacific.

Probably because this hunt is in Japans area not the other end of the earth and its also not conducted in a declared whale sanctuary. Funny how most people can see that except the Japanese and pro whalers

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

@Hojo Soun,

Now I see why JT has a 'Preview' function. For family's, read families, of course.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Not again! When is this barbaric charade going to STOP?

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Hôjô Sôun

This is our traditional way of living, our traditional food for thousands of years, and we will never stop whaling. Even if all the whales were gone, we would send a ship after them.

And this is why people hate your whaling and why Japanese are vilified for their stance... Thank you, you summed it up perfectly

As Japanese, we must eat whale in order to properly connect to our ancestors and rich, ancient history of the oldest, deepest and proudest culture in the world. Every time we are told to stop whaling by the outsiders, the cultural imperialists, we win gain more support for our cause as Japanese resolve hardens like steel to never give in. Never give up. They want to destroy our cultural identity but we are too strong. Too Japanese, too strong.

Ah that rich deep seated tradition of whaling in Antarctica!!! How old is that tradition again? Oh thats right 60yrs that one long running tradition there Hojo....

0 ( +3 / -3 )

On the other hand, we consider that sustainable use of some whale species should be allowed like other living marine resources that are useful for humans such as fish and shellfish, if best scientific evidence shows that those species are not endangered.

That's not research.

What? I cannot understand what you are saying.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

I love how the word "scientific research" in put in quotation marks in the article. Everyone, right from the lawmakers to the JT staff and the general public know it's a farce.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Daijoboots...

...sustainable use of some whale species should be allowed like other living marine resources that are useful for humans...

That isn't research... that's hunting whales as a resource. There is nothing scientific in that.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

I love how the word "scientific research" in put in quotation marks in the article.

I love how a reporter has injected his or her own personal agenda into the article. It is unprofessional and biased.

Everyone, right from the lawmakers to the JT staff and the general public know it's a farce.

I'm sorry. What would this farce be that just everyone knows about? That Japan is conducting research to resume commerical whaling and that they are required to make use of whale meat obtained through said research under Article 8 of the International Convention for the Regulation of Whaling? Please. It is a matter of time before commercial whaling will resume, either through data collected or through public sentiment turning against those attempting to project their values onto others.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

To pro-whalers:

Do you regard whales as intelligent animals or just another dumb animal bred for food?

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

That isn't research... that's hunting whales as a resource. There is nothing scientific in that.

Do you understand that research is being conducted so that whaling on a commercial basis can resume?

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Daijoboots

You do realise the Japanese are using science to validate population numbers, not to validate culture, don't you?"

It amazes me that any rational person buys this official Japanese line and even more that they regurgitate it as part of their own position. If you are trying to validate population numbers, why do you have to kill the specimens you are studying? That is a completely illogical way of assessing populaton numbers - but I await your explanation of this with interest, assuming of course, you are willing to take up the challenge.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

So the whalers are killing whales to see if there are enough whales for them to resume hunting them commercially? They already ARE hunting them commercially. What do you think they do with the whales? Toss them back?

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Errrrr sorry does anyone know how much this is costing tax payers? Per kilo what is the profit cost ratio? Add 200% for "cultural" issues Can't run a black van on love after all. Should factor in the cost of freezing it too as that must be considered during the current power crisis!!! And not enough money for health checks for children but enough for this? Nice culture.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

It amazes me that any rational person buys this official Japanese line

How was that any official Japanese line? I thought of it, wrote it, and should copyright it.

If you are trying to validate population numbers, why do you have to kill the specimens you are studying? That is a completely illogical way of assessing populaton numbers - but I await your explanation of this with interest, assuming of course, you are willing to take up the challenge.

For this however I will refer you to question 4 from the Whaling FAQ on the Embassy of Japan in Australia website.

Q4. Isnt it possible to obtain sufficient scientific data through non -lethal means?

In order to obtain appropriate scientific data for the proper management of whales, only using non-lethal research method is insufficient and lethal method is required:

While certain information can be obtained through non-lethal means, other information requires sampling of internal organs such as ovaries, ear plugs and stomachs. For example, while the population age structure and reproductive rates of land mammals can be determined by observation over a long period of time, such is not the case for whales since they spend most of their life underwater. In this case ear plugs are needed for age determination, ovaries are needed to establish their reproductive rates, and stomachs are needed for the analysis of their food consumption (whales might have consumed large amounts of fish, so as to give an adverse impact on commercial fisheries and the balance of the marine ecosystem).

Of course, the lethal research method is only applied to whale species which are already determined as abundant, and the small take for research purpose will not produce a negative impact on overall stocks of those species.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Do you regard whales as intelligent animals or just another dumb animal bred for food?

Oh dear. Are we going to means test animals for intelligence before we eat them? Might as well - the cute or majestic ones are exempt, right?

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Time for those in charge to be introduced to something called MATH, with a GDP debt double it's income and wild spending on unprofitable items. MATH 101 might be in order.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

MATH 101 might be in order

Here's a little calculation for you. How much is spent on whaling annually and what percentage is this of total expenditure?

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Daijoboots

How was that any official Japanese line? I thought of it, wrote it, and should copyright it

Ha ha ha ha. Classic! Especially when you follow by quoting this from a Japanese Embassy;

In order to obtain appropriate scientific data for the proper management of whales, only using non-lethal research method is insufficient and lethal method is required

Looks like the official Japanese line IS your argument.

For this however I will refer you to question 4 from the Whaling FAQ on the Embassy of Japan in Australia website.

Why doesn't that surprise me. Do you have any opinion of your own on this subject? In your own words, would you like to try to explain why counting whales needs to be lethal? Go on, you can do it!

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Calculation?,living on borrowed money speeding on programs that are uneconomical Or if your up to it what is the cost for antagonizing the major trading partners or the world view Head hunting is also a cultural tradition in some cultures, is Japan on par with that? Check your local area they might have a basic math program you can enroll in. Or photo copy a degree live life and love.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

daijouboots: "Funds for whaling (insignificant in percentage terms) had been approved before the Great East Japan Earthquake."

Funds for whaling itself, yes, but not the $27 MILLION they added on later to put their coast guard on the whaling ships to defend in international waters. THAT was the money taken, quite after the disaster, and which even people in Tohoku were angry about. Don't you remember that? Some people even came on here and talked about how that money was well spent FOR the people in Tohoku because it would help the people in Ishinomaki.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

daijouboots: "Here's a little calculation for you. How much is spent on whaling annually and what percentage is this of total expenditure?"

That's not calculation; it's a question to defer answering one posited to you. Here's a better 'calculation', though... how many international papers of importance has Japan produced for its science? I noticed you have avoided answering my questions.

"Was it necessary for you to eat that steak?"

Perfect example of yet more deflection. You claim I'm wrong about the 'science' being unnecessary, then when I ask what's necessary you throw out a red herring again to avoid answering a question.

And for the record, I don't eat steak, and avoid red meat as much as possible because it's unhealthy, as is whale/dolphin meat. So stop trying to bring in animals like cows, pigs, and chickens that are bred for the purpose of food with wild mammals in the ocean, in some cases on the verge of extinction. But that's more of the usual pro-whaler nonsensical retorts.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Ha ha ha ha. Classic! Especially when you follow by quoting this from a Japanese Embassy;

I thought I made the distinction clear but a number of people here just read what they want to read or don't comprehend what is written.

Do you have any opinion of your own on this subject?

Have you bothered to read what I've written in this thread?

In your own words, would you like to try to explain why counting whales needs to be lethal?

I think the explanation in question 4 of the Whaling FAQ is sufficient. If you need me to paraphrase it for you let me know.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

but not the $27 MILLION they added on later

Are you sure about that? Are you sure it wasn't allocated earlier in response to the previous year's ramped up illegal maritime assaults? At any rate you can blame the eco-terrorists for that. Perhaps they should have backed off but no, they only care about their own self-righteous and deluded cause. The species the Japanese government are hunting are not on the verge of distinction, as you wrongly claim. They are majestic, however, and it is here that the irrational and emotional rise.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Have you bothered to read what I've written in this thread?

You really don't want to answer the question, do you? All this ducking and diving is a little unbecoming....

think the explanation in question 4 of the Whaling FAQ is sufficient. If you need me to paraphrase it for you let me know

....as is trying to pass off another's answer as your own.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Daijoboots: "At any rate you can blame the eco-terrorists for that."

On the contrary, you can blame the imperialist nature of the Japanese government, forcing its coast guard into international waters, and even venturing into French territory, which is illegal. If Japan was not whaling under the guise of science in waters far from its shores SS would not be doing what they do (hence they do not with Norway and Iceland to the same extent).

"The species the Japanese government are hunting are not on the verge of distinction, as you wrongly claim."

I didn't claim the whales the J-government is targeting are on the verge of extinction, I merely said some whale species are. Stop trying to misrepresent what others have said.

"They are majestic, however, and it is here that the irrational and emotional rise."

No, it's that Japan lays claim to anything and everything outside its borders, and even sends their coast guard as hired guns... you claim 'imperialism' as one of the bottom of the barrel arguments when you can't defend the science, but Japan going WELL overseas and saying it was a right to do what the world (save a few other whaling nations and the nations Japan has bribed in Africa) is against because it is 'Japanese culture' is Japan imposing its practices and beliefs on others.

And I'm still waiting for you to tell me how many papers this and last year have been published internationally on Japan's 'necessary' science. My guess is you cannot, or there are none and you simply are ignoring the question.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

You really don't want to answer the question, do you? All this ducking and diving is a little unbecoming........as is trying to pass off another's answer as your own.

It is futile having a conversation with someone who cannot differentiate between quoted or paraphrased text and that of opinion. It is also futile and even counter-productive to attempt to impose your values on others.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

under the guise of science

You just don't get it do you? They are not doing it for science itself.

And I'm still waiting for you to tell me how many papers this and last year have been published internationally on Japan's 'necessary' science

Why this and last year? Go digging yourself. Since 1987 over 180 reports have been submitted to the IWC Scientific Committee and more than 90 contributed to scientific journals .

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

t is futile having a conversation with someone who cannot differentiate between quoted or paraphrased text and that of opinion.

Look, I was just hoping that, as a pro-whaling opinion, you might be able to explain to us why it is necessary to kill whales by way of establishing population numbers. I didn't think it was too much to ask, but I guess I was wrong.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

How much is this costing tax payers?. I'd like to see scientific research on the children who survived the Tsunami and resulting comical actions that occurred at a certain radioactive facility ( non lethal as we can count their numbers) rather then waisting my tax dollars in a fruitless search for international condemanation.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

In the one year I been back in Japan I saw whale meat in the seafood section at Yamakataya in Kirishima, and in AZET in Hayato in Kagoshima Prefecture. These two towns are small and rural by Japanese standards, and Kagoshima Prefecture is among the less populous prefectures in Japan. It would be interesting to collect and compile data on this and see the percentage of the mass of killed whales that ends up sold in supermarkets and restaurants, and how the actual sales are going...

I think though the health angle is an important common ground between pro and anti whalers, and should be a key strategy to curbing whaling in Japan. Public awareness, and get Debito to make a new book about this to get the message out there. This approach might significantly reduce, if not stop, the lobby for commercial whaling.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Face it, the pro-whalers can't provide a logical justification for this. The 'research', such as it is, seems to be purely to try and justify killing the whales that they haven't already killing in the process. The cultural aspect is rubbish. Just like Japan the British people are on an island. Just like the Japanese we had our share of wars, imperial conquests and periods of enlightenment. However, unlike the Japanese we stopped whaling in the 1960s, and that was before they found North Sea Oil. Whale meat was sold in the UK, oil used in lamps and baleen used for corsets... but now we revere whales. We see them as animals to be protected and cherished. Just like the Japanese it was part of our culture... but we left it behind. Why can't the Japanese?

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Most Japanese people do not like the taste of whale. Many Japanese do not like the "whale culture". The people of Okinawa watch whales and do not eat them. What is true is the Japanese fishermen will clean the oceans of all life if not prevented. The Japanese government is not willing or able to stop these fiends. The UN is not able to enforce the law. The other countries "self interest" prevails over whales. The question is if the whalers were not watched, how many whales would they take a year? Tell me you you believe the Japanese government. Oh my husband says "I contradict myself", well maybe I do. So I put it to the gentle readers to decide.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Daijoboots: "It is futile having a conversation with someone who cannot differentiate between quoted or paraphrased text and that of opinion. It is also futile and even counter-productive to attempt to impose your values on others."

So you simply can't answer my question. That's all you need to say. Thank you.

"You just don't get it do you? They are not doing it for science itself."

But before you talked about how the science was 'necessary', no? Again, the contradictions.

One of the most interesting things about this whole debate is that most Japanese don't even like whale, and I've NEVER, EVER heard a kid say he or she would prefer some whale to yakiniku or a hamburger... ever. And yet the government subsidizes whaling at our expense to pay a few old men to feed an even fewer old men and women while the rest rots in freezers before being forced on children whose parents would freak out if they bothered to listen to the dangers it poses to their kids. And again it's humorous that people will say an opinion against whaling is 'cultural imperialism' while Japan imposes its culture on the world -- ie. imperialism.

"Why this and last year? Go digging yourself."

Ah, and you can't provide the stats yourself to talk about the necessary science you mentioned. Figured as much. Thank you again.

Thunderbird2: "Face it, the pro-whalers can't provide a logical justification for this."

100% spot on. But like I've said before, and Daijoboots easy fell into, you point this out and they cry 'imperialism' and forget they claim the reason they are doing this is for science but then contradict themselves and say you cannot deny them their ancient cultural practices (in waters WELL outside their lands!). It's amusing to watch them get upset and throw out red herrings, and do just about anything to avoid answering questions, though.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Daijoboots: Forgot to mention that what makes your inability to answer simple questions even more amusing is your earlier posts demanding stats from other posters when you could just 'go digging yourself'.

But again, the contradictions and outright hypocrisy of the pro-whalers has never been their strong point. Feel free to prove me wrong though and actually answer my questions -- just don't strain yourself too hard searching for proof of what you claimed was fact.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

they claim the reason they are doing this is for science

No, they don't. The rending into English or your paraphrasing might make it sound so though. I've said it before and I'll say it again - they are not "doing this for science", they are doing it to resume commercial whaling. Please see the following taken from Q2. What is the purpose of Japan's Whale Research programs?

It should be noted that while the temporary moratorium on commercial whaling was introduced in 1986 on the basis that scientific evidence concerning whale stocks was inconclusive, Japan's scientific whaling research programs were commenced in order to overcome this lack of scientific evidence.

.

(more from smithinjapan) but then contradict themselves and say you cannot deny them their ancient cultural practices

There is no contradiction unless you quite simply wrongly associate the two. What you are saying is that technology cannot be used to maintain a practice or custom. And as for whaling in waters distant from Japan, so what? What's your beef with that?

Moreover, the number of whales caught by Japan's whale research has been small, e.g. almost 0.1% of the estimated stock (761,000) in case of Minke whales, which indicates Japan's research poses no threat to whale stocks.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

We see them as animals to be protected and cherished.

Ah yes that soothing notion of gliding through the ocean. The beauty, the majestic awe of it all. Man's affinity with the sea (which he plunders to his heart's content).

Wake up and smell the green tea. Whales are not deserving of special treatment, and the ones being hunted are not threatened species. All you have is an emotional, illogical and culturally intolerant response.

Just like the Japanese it was part of our culture... but we left it behind. Why can't the Japanese?

Ooh this should be the slogan for cultural assimilation. Yes why can't they be the same and accept we are right. Should they not I will resort to violent and illegal measures, right?

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Oh man! There it goes again.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Still think they need a Capt. Nemo, who would take stronger action.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

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