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Japan's nuclear restart may be delayed until 2015

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you continue to state that the cost of the nuclear disaster will be ¥5 trillion even though TEPCO have stated the cost of compensation will be more than ¥5 trillion.

No. I stated that I stand by the 5 trillion yen for compensation.

All costs incurred by a business, in this case, the power utilities are passed onto their customers whether its taxations, cost of fuel, overheads. The customers of any business are the ones paying and the amount left are the net earnings of the company which then pays corporate taxes on its profits. The ¥375/1000 kWh collected under the "power development promotion tax law" is actually paid by the customers, just like all costs, expenses and charges are paid too

Why stop there. How about stating that employers who pays the "customers' salary are paying for the tax since we're at it. Stop with this nonsense.

According to you, the charge of ¥375/1000 kWh is paid directly by the power utilities and not their customers, which would mean it would have to be deduced from the company after it paid corporation tax, which just isn't the case.

It is, by definition, paid DIRECTLY by the utility companies.

you have claimed the power companies don't receive subsidies???

A loan from Japan Development Bank is a subsidy?

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

But I have provided a link fully explaining the Power Development Promotion Tax Law and the charges are made to the customer and not paid in some form of tax by the power companies and none of the links you have provided actually state otherwise.

I provided the link to the actual law itself. This is where you question your own link.

Just because they don't actually exist on the monthly power bill only shows that the charge is included and calculated in the basic charge which in itself is made up of many aspects such as a cost for decommissioning reactors. Please provide a link showing that the charge is paid by the power companies and not the customer?

Please refer to Mike O'Brien's post as well as my input. The law specifically states that the taxes are paid by the utility companies.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Nigelboy No, a couple of years ago you actually said the total cost of the nuclear disaster would be no more than ¥5 trillion in response to my comment when I said it would be ¥25 trillion, which will now be more than ¥50 trillion, and TEPCO in their last updated plan stated compensation payments will be more than ¥5 trillion

http://www.minyu-net.com/osusume/daisinsai/serial/140305/news2.html

Again, what I disagree is your inclusion of costs as a result of the "stoppage of NPP" which you have time and time again failed to separate them and use it as some cost figuration for nuclear energy not being cheap.

The responsbility of collecting the charge under the Power Development Promotion Tax Law are the power utilities but then so are the collections of sales tax but both are paid by the consumer and not by the power companies which you keep mistakenly suggest?

See Mike O'Brien's post. They are paid b the utility companies and while sales tax are clearly indicated on the customer's bill, the other is not. The abusurdity of your argument is that such source of funds should not come from the utility companies' operating revenue when their whole business is providing electricty and getting paid for them.

The idea behind the law was that all people benefit from having electricity by because of NIMBY not everyone would be willing to have a power plant in their location and those who are IMBY or willing to have them should receive local benefit for that and hence the charge made and passed on.

Yes. Instead of utility companies doing it themselves, they pay the government in a form of a special tax who in turn assigns the money to a entity who in turn allocates them to do such tasks.

Would you prefer that the government eliminate such tax and have the utility companies do it themselves without intervention?

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Then I guess you didn't even bother to read the link I provided

I read the law itself for they never mentioned about taxing the consumers.

http://law.e-gov.go.jp/cgi-bin/idxselect.cgi?IDX_OPT=1&H_NAME=%93%64%8c%b9%8a%4a%94%ad%91%a3%90%69%90%c5%96%40&H_NAME_YOMI=%82%a0&H_NO_GENGO=H&H_NO_YEAR=&H_NO_TYPE=2&H_NO_NO=&H_FILE_NAME=S49HO079&H_RYAKU=1&H_CTG=1&H_YOMI_GUN=1&H_CTG_GUN=1

Face it zichi. The responsibility to pay the amount lies with the utility companies. This TAX that the utility companies pay are the SOURCE of funds for these subsidies.

You say you are standing by your statement that the cost of the nuclear disaster won't be more than ¥5 trillion when even the compensation claims and payments for evacuation and mental anguish have exceeded that figure alone? TEPCO are paying out more than ¥70 billion a month or ¥840 billion a year for those evacuation payments. Even people returning will continue to receive support payments for one year.

Yes. I stand by the 5 trillion yen figure for compensation to individuals and corporations. What I don't agree with is your evolving definition of "cost of the nuclear disaster" for you have ADDED the "cost incurred as a result of stoppage of NPP" to suit your argument.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

nigelboy, you incorrectly stated that the ¥375/1,000kWh was being paid by the power companies.

So you are claiming that NO business ever pays any taxes because the money just comes from their customers. In fact you are claiming that no company ever pays, from supplies to salaries, for anything because ultimately all their money comes from their customers.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Its the electricity consumers domestic and business which are paying the ¥375/1,000kWh charge which the government pays to those communities with electric power plants. This isn't paid by the power utilities themselves, they just collect the money on behalf of the government. nigelboy, you incorrectly stated that the ¥375/1,000kWh was being paid by the power companies.

Look at your bill. I do not see such tax allocated on my bill.

http://www.kepco.co.jp/home/ryoukin/shikumi/breakdowns.html

http://www.tepco.co.jp/e-rates/individual/basic/charge/charge01-j.html

Nowhere in the law does it states "tax is collected from consumers via electricity bills" because if these customers are delinquent/non payment, the utilitity companies has to pay based on "consumption".

Another government subsidy is covered by the Act on Compensation for Nuclear Damage of 1961. In the case of a nuclear plant accident, compensation is to be paid from insurance contributions of the electric power company; but at present the limit is a mere ¥120 billion. So even though the nuclear disaster will cost many tens of trillions, the liability of TEPCO is limited to ¥120 billion.

That is not subsidy

**Nigelboy, two years ago you said the cost of the nuclear disaster would be no more than ¥5 trillion, a figure you pulled out of your hat. I have said it will cost more than ¥50 trillion and recently gave a list to show that.

I'm standing by it. What you fail to understand are once compensation is settled and paid, the monthly stipend ends. So more case settled, the less monthly recipients.

It's you who changes goal posts by adding costs (as a result of NPP).

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

No we didn't. The nuclear energy industry receives substantial government subsidies including construction costs, the guarantee for insurance cover, tax breaks not given to other industries, the R&D grants which started in 1974 and about ten years ago had reached ¥500 billion per year. Just why do you think the insurance industry calls the nuclear industry the mother of all subsidies?

What you commented on was the money received by the local communities which have the power generation plants and most of the money is given during the construction stage. That has nothing to do with government subsidies given to the nuclear power industry. That is by way more of a tax and not a subsidy. I think the figure you quoted was ¥375/1000 KWhr which would amount to about 1.5% of the sale price of the electricity.

The subsidy fund of 1974 IS EXACTLY THAT

http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E9%9B%BB%E6%BA%90%E4%B8%89%E6%B3%95

The utility company PAYS the central government 375 yen/1000 KWhr electricity sold via following TAX.

http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E9%9B%BB%E6%BA%90%E9%96%8B%E7%99%BA%E4%BF%83%E9%80%B2%E7%A8%8E%E6%B3%95

Which in turn goes into the general account of the central government and subsequently the below linked special account which does ALL of what you stated above. (i.e. Subsidies)

http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%82%A8%E3%83%8D%E3%83%AB%E3%82%AE%E3%83%BC%E5%AF%BE%E7%AD%96%E7%89%B9%E5%88%A5%E4%BC%9A%E8%A8%88

It simply amazes me that after all these years of writing on this subject, you were under the FALSE assumption that th government was giving handouts to these companies.

The ¥50 trillion for losses and costs of the nuclear disaster I have listed several times recently

You haven't.

The funding that TEPCO received from the Nuclear Damage Liability Facilitation Fund is 5.1 trillion yen. Of the total applicants filing for compensation in damages, about 87% have already been paid as of August 1 at 4.1 trillion yen.

What is this urge to double and triple figures then add zero?

The costs of decommissioning are suppose to be calculated into the power charges but they are already going cap in hand to central government.

Yes. Why are repeating the same argument when the above should the cost as a result of "not operating NPP?"

No unlike you and others I have tried to work out a realistic loss and costs for the nuclear disaster, which includes the loss by the utilities and the increase costs of fossil fuels.

If that is your true intent, I sincerely appreciate it by balancing them instead of stringing them together as if it's part of the "nuclear energy" true cost. And as I noted before, this is a COST as a result of "not operating NPP".

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

You mean like first, the taxpayer picking up the tab for construction of the nuclear power plants, and then giving them subsidies like the R&D grants of ¥500 billion per year, but then that's probably why the insurance industry calls nuclear energy the "mother of all subsidies".

We went over this, zichi. The receipient of the subsidies are communities that house them. The source of such funding is collect via special tax FROM the utilities companies.

Secondly, the taxpayer will again pick up the ¥50 trillion plus for the cost of the most expensive industrial accident in history.

Which you have NEVER substantiated those figures.

Thirdly, the taxpayer will pick up the tab for decommissioning the failed reactors even though it was suppose to be collected from the power charges and the tab for building the storage for the spent nuclear fuel?

It would lessen the burden if you allow the NPP to operate.

The problem with your assessment is that you attach the cost of "not restarting NPP" as your argument.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

Japan’s electric utilities have racked up more than $34 billion in losses in the three years since the disaster

These numbers go totally unnoticed by the anti-nuclear crowd for they fail to realize that these amounts will eventually be fully funded by the consumers.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

The simplest way to show that solar and wind, with current technology, are incapable of supporting the electric requirements of a major country is to look at the plants that make the solar panels and wind turbines. I have not seen a single proponent that has been able to point to a single one that relies on their own product to power their factory.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

For those of you touting solar energy, the main reason why they're not going to become mainstream anytime soon is because even the cheapest solar installations are still well above even the highest cost curves of cheaper alternatives (coal, nat gas). The only way they become cost effective is for the government to subsidize them, but even then that's not a long-term solution.

We all think clean energy is great, but when the burden will likely fall on taxpayers, I'm sure we'll all think twice - that's the reality of the situation, money drives everything.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The Sendai plant cleared the Nuclear Regulation Authority’s (NRA) initial safety hurdle last month, but the utility was supposed to hand in additional, detailed paperwork on specific safety features at the site and how they planned to construct them.

Considering the schedules, in plain text this can only mean that the NRA is willing to allow the restart based on plans, which do not have to be implemented before the plant starts again but rather some more ot less distant future. Nothing will ever change in this industry...

1 ( +1 / -0 )

<<That is because all the main stream media is controlled by the government to undermine all the anti-nuclear movements which have gone unnoticed by the majority of the population.

Because the Public Sector is controlling the Private Sector too much in Japan. Encourage a concept of free/true enterprise and go for structural reforms in Economic model. Japanese bureaucrats (KANRYO) want to control everything too much, and it is not working..

0 ( +0 / -0 )

After all this they still want to put nuclear power back on? Put more lives at risk so they can have more money? Why the hell isn't anyone doing something? I'm just a simple white devil that probably would not make a difference, but why don't the Japanese do something????

That is because all the main stream media is controlled by the government to undermine all the anti-nuclear movements which have gone unnoticed by the majority of the population.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Coal, gas, oil uranium, all gone in less than 100 years!

Hardly

However the rain wind and sun will continue for millions of years.

Yes they will. And so will typhoons, tornadoes and meteorites. Was there a point?

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

The key words always seem to be the same:

Restart,

safety regulations,

detailed paperwork,

final deliberations,

additional documents,

remain idled,

annual losses,

government bailout ,

For me the key words are NUCLEAR WASTE DISPOSAL.

No operation disposal mechanism = No restart

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Serrano

Whatever happened to cheap, safe fusion energy?

Its always 30 years away, like intelligent machines and a mission to Mars.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Anti stupidity, your bang on mate ! we, have to think LONG term not short term, fossil fuel IS running out now, so we have to change our perspection of burning polluting fossil fuels.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Public science still has a long way to go. Get a PhD in science, then you guys may understand.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

The uranium resource for the current light water reactor could last for 300 years. However, for the fast breeder reactor, the uranium resource could last for 1000 or 2000

And the nuclear waste needs to be stored safely for at least 10,000 years.

All the other clean energy is far less stable and efficient than the nuclear energy

With the advantage that it doesn't explode, burn holes down into the earth, irradiate the groundwater and from there the sea, or destroy whole communities, lifestyles and ecosystems when 'unexpected' things (like earthquakes and tsunamis on the Ring of Fire, duh!) occur.

Remember, the only fundamental energy source is the sun, which is actual a big fusion reactor!!!

Yes, and though it's roughly 150 million kms away, if I stand in its rays unprotected for half an hour or so it will turn my skin red, blistery and extremely sore. Repeated exposure gives me a very good chance of getting skin cancer. If I look at it directly, I'll go blind. Now why would I want a mini one of those anywhere near me on these unstable, wobbly isles?

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Good. More time for renewables to creep in and get footholds in the energy sector and undermine the most dangerous enterprise man has ever fooled himself into believing is beneficial and safe. When the consequences are so catastrophic when it goes wrong, which it does and will again, nuclear energy fuelled by uranium HAS to be stopped. NOW. It's the STUPIDEST way to boil water.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Hey, listen, most of you. Coal and gas would be burned out in about 300 years, and the speed of the consumption grows as population grows. If you want Japan as polluted as China, just burn coals. Notably, the mining industry killed far more people than all the nuclear disasters. Friends, please search the direct casualty by nuclear disaster yourself. The truth is, the impact of nuclear disaster is heavily exaggerated by the public stupidity and deliberate anti-nuclear campaign funded by the 'dirty energy' company. Low-level radiation is very common. The coal plant produce more radiation than the nuclear plant in normal operation. When you take a flight, you are radiated more. Inevitably, mankind would rely on nuclear fuel in the near future. By nuclear energy, I mean the light water reactor, fast breeder reactor and possibly the fusion reactor. The uranium resource for the current light water reactor could last for 300 years. However, for the fast breeder reactor, the uranium resource could last for 1000 or 2000, depend on the technology. All the other clean energy is far less stable and efficient than the nuclear energy. Remember, the only fundamental energy source is the sun, which is actual a big fusion reactor!!! The fossil fuel is the concentrated 'solar energy' by the dinosaurs over billions of year. That is why direct solar energy and the 'new-grown' bio-energy cannot be even close in efficiency to the fossil fuel.

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

No nuke restart. I am afraid there will be a next big earthquake in Japan as many world scientists predict.

When do you start investing on energy alternatives? Come to Colorado. We are leading the energy alternative industry in the States and creating jobs. We would like to show you.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Inevitable? Nothing is inevitable but death. What happens before is a choice. Chose to burden future generations with toxic land and toxic waist, or choose to follow a different path. Pretty simple. Corruption will decide as it always seems to.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

You know I often wondered why so many people on here hated Japan's system. Now I understand, after just living here for 3 years I have started to notice so much corruption and money grabbing within this government.

After all this they still want to put nuclear power back on? Put more lives at risk so they can have more money? Why the hell isn't anyone doing something? I'm just a simple white devil that probably would not make a difference, but why don't the Japanese do something????

3 ( +7 / -4 )

So, regardless of public opinion it seems inevitable that most of the plants will be back online within a few years. However, my questions is, if they do get these plants back online to reduce the cost of producing electricity is the public gonna see a reduction in tariffs or, are the savings just gonna into corporate coffers?

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Instead of bailouts why not just nationalize the power companies? Seems that would be a much cheaper alternative.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Not very good for Japan's trade deficit.

For the short-term, getting these reactors online is a priority. After that, invest in all the clean energy you want.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

@FightingVikingAUG. 07, 2014 - 09:02AM JST

@HowardStern

I don't understand either... I'm certainly NOT "awaiting" any "restarts". Shut them all down PERMANENTLY !

''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

The article should reveal who has long-awaited.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

@HowardStern

I don't understand either... I'm certainly NOT "awaiting" any "restarts". Shut them all down PERMANENTLY !

3 ( +7 / -4 )

The long-awaited restart of Japans nuclear power plants

I dont understand where "long-awaited" comes from? Biased reporting.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

but the utility was supposed to hand in additional, detailed paperwork on specific safety features at the site and how they planned to construct them.

OMG -- they were going to be required to actually have a specific plan, rather than simply saying "trust us". Will wonders never cease? Although it is not really surprising they could not do this in time, since the utilities have never been held to any real standards on safety.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

a few months delay should not affect Nikkei shares since it is down for so long.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Whatever happened to cheap, safe fusion energy?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

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