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Joggers warned to mind their manners as they run around Imperial Palace

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Since the place became de-facto training facility... why not encourage it and build a proper running path around it... didnt you want the Olympics here? Fact is most of these visitors dont care about the runners, and not making way so they deserve to be yelled at.

-29 ( +11 / -40 )

10,000 runners a day, yet just 100 complaints over the course of 3-4 years. Doesn't seem to warrant erecting signs over it, but I'm sure it kept some folks busy worrying and employed, er., keeps the harmony.

15 ( +23 / -8 )

Officials say tourists and older visitors to the grounds have complained of runners crashing into them from behind and then trotting off without saying sorry.

In other words they are being assaulted

8 ( +19 / -11 )

I'd lay a beat down on such joggers and or cyclists who clip me without stopping to apologize.

-8 ( +14 / -22 )

@655321 Then you would get arrested and be worse than them.

13 ( +22 / -9 )

It's not so pleasant walking around the Imperial Palace anymore, which is a pity because it used to be my favorite place for a stroll. Now, especially in the early evening, you're bombarded with rude runners. I stick to the side and try to give way but so few of the runners reciprocate. It's particularly unpleasant up on the north side where the pavement narrows and you have to try hard to avoid tripping over the exposed tree roots. I'm happy for the people who enjoy running and are getting health advantages from it but agree with the article as it relates to the runners in question. This last bit is a bit of self-congratulatory bosh though.

....outright rudeness remain very rare, even in densely populated Tokyo.

22 ( +24 / -2 )

If joggers have to yield to those walking, how will they jog?

Its very simple: Those walking need to keep to one side and yield to joggers. OR they just need to ban jogging.

OR you could say there is no solution because there is no problem. Read conbinibento's post again.

-7 ( +8 / -15 )

"While some older Japanese bemoan slipping standards of behavior"

Excuse me? WTF?! Have you ever set foot in the street in Japan? Been on a bus? Used a train? Waited in line at a store? Then you will know that younger Japanese (let's say under 50) tend to look first before backing out their bicycle or driving out the gas station as pedestrians walk by. Younger Japanese know how to wait in line when a train comes and DO NOT try to get on a train before others get off. Younger Japanese will not barge in to a store and bark at the assistant and ask for tobacco or pay a bill while several people are already waiting in line. Younger Japanese do not clear their throats and spit in the station. Every week you can see older people throw down litter on the streets for example when opening a pack of tobacco and throwing the plastic wrapping on the floor when there is a trash can just next to them. Next time "older Japanese" complain about the standards, remind them of this and watch them squirm. Hypocrites.

25 ( +31 / -6 )

Think of the children. Where are the Jogging police?

0 ( +2 / -2 )

@Mataka. Couldn't agree with you more!

5 ( +6 / -1 )

@ mataka: You hit the nail on the head, especially the obasans who will rush to the nearest seat on the train before anyone else. It takes two sometimes to have good manners. If the people pay attention and not walk around with an air of entitlement some of these issues could easily be resolved.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

@ mitaka...

Well said, paisano!! And lets not forget those Japanese who intentionally - YES, intentionally am afraid, see a foreigner coming and at the very last second, cross in front of your path as if you are completely transparent to them, causing serious bursts of mental rage, to say the least. You don't have to take my word for it... Try and you'll be the judge!!

1 ( +6 / -5 )

Japanese are like penguins, they all run in the SAME direction, why?? Me do not know, but me WALK in opposite direction for better view of some nice knockers bouncing up and down and all around, this is what the signs should say, you walk in opposite direction and forget about trying to see Mt.Fuji, you see smaller mountains all over the place there around the Japanese Imperial Palace and this way you no get hit from behind by nasty, young stupid jogger who only think about his own health and other nonsense like that! IMHO

-12 ( +8 / -20 )

That's always been my biggest complaint about Tokyo. People never say anything if they bump into you on the street or anywhere else for that matter. And when they do apologize,it makes everyone feel a whole lot better. I guess the large population makes people robotic.

5 ( +9 / -4 )

"100 complaints in the last 3-4 years,"

That's nothing, given the huge numbers involved and the amount of benefits stemming from this activity. The "issue" is just another excuse for Japan's rapacious authorities to assert themselves over their timid population.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

ControlFreakOct. 02, 2013 - 08:08AM JST Its very simple: Those walking need to keep to one side and yield to joggers. OR they just need to ban jogging.

... or another option joggers need to get over their massive sense of entitlement and realise that they do NOT have right of way just because they're jogging, and jogging does not suddenly entitle them to assault people or otherwise break the law.

I see this sort of logic from cyclists too. Somehow they think that because they're being "healthy" they're entitled to park their bikes where they like, break the rules of the road, and generally act in an illegal fashion... all the while trying to pretend that they have the moral high ground.

Wake-up call, just because what you're doing could be considered exercise doesn't mean you suddenly aren't subject to the laws of the land. ... and I cannot believe that I just had to say that to a bunch of adults.

OR you could say there is no solution because there is no problem. Read conbinibento's post again.

That is 100 complaints... but the majority of Japanese people do not complain, ever! This is the country where people get sexually assaulted in trains and no-one says a thing most times, not the victim or the people standing around. Sorry, but if there are a 100 complaints then it is happening at least a million times.

9 ( +13 / -4 )

Someone just needs to punch the hell out of a few of them to send a message.

-1 ( +7 / -8 )

Frungy, that's what I was thinking. Anyone who thinks that the number of official complaints equals the number of people who've been bashed into by selfish runners is off his head and knows nothing about Japan, or most places for that matter. Most people couldn't be bothered or would just feel silly making an official complaint about being bashed into and so just wouldn't do it. They may avoid going to that place again which is a pity because the Imperial Palace is a lovely place to walk around and doesn't belong to the runners. It's also a very popular tourist attraction which generally means tourists eat, have coffee and shop in nearby businesses. If word gets out that it's an unpleasant place in which to take a stroll that could have a trickle down effect on places that get business from tourists or just locals who liked to stroll around the palace.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

Rules like no smoking in certain areas or running counter-clockwise in front of the Imperial Palace are reinforced with signs but rarely enforced.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

I'm not thinking it is the joggers fault more like the tourists stopping in the middle of the sidewalk and taking photos and blocking the sidewalk in large groups. Joggers don't just crash into people on purpose.

-7 ( +4 / -11 )

gogogo: Joggers don't just crash into people on purpose.

Being a "recovering runner" myself, I can tell you with all honesty that they will most certainly elbow and shoulder people on purpose and they will not change their path if they are the sort of self-entitled runner that I knew far too many of back in the day. Additionally, many are listening to iPods and lost in their own worlds so they don't even see anyone around them.

The bottom line is that the Imperial Palace doesn't belong to the runners and it is a major tourist attraction so if you're going to run there you need to take that into consideration, expect snap-happy tourists and act appropriately.

There are actually nicer, less crowded routes that people could be running right near the Imperial Palace but since it is the in place to run you just don't see that many people in the other places.

9 ( +11 / -2 )

Let's see that vaunted Japanese high-tech come up with a solution: How about supplementing the sidewalk around the palace with a giant treadmill that swings out over the moat?

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Why go there? Too many people running there already. Try somewhere else. But japanese are like sheep. In one idiot likes one thing.... everyone will follow. Ex; Disney, Hawaii, Olympics.... etc. Idiots.

-2 ( +6 / -8 )

The Palace used to be my daily walk, but I gave it up when the joggers increased and became more aggressive. On every walk joggers came right up behind me stepping on my heel. Even when there was plenty of space for me to walk on one side and them to pass on the other, they made a point of making contact as they passed, or cutting in immediately in front of me apparently annoyed that I was in their space.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

I agree with Frungy.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

"Chiyoda Ward officials say they have received around 100 complaints in the last 3-4 years" REALLY!! geez just in LA, that can happen in 3-4 minutes!!

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

not sure whats wrong with my suggestion to build running path there ... but yea those tourists are super rude, walk slow, take every inch of space on the sidewalk and absolutely ignorant to everyone else but their cameras... besides.. there is absolutely nothing to see inthe palace except a polluted swamp , police on every corner and large, empty , not very well mantained garden

-13 ( +3 / -16 )

The runners are nearly always aware that they share the sidewalk with others. That's not quite as true with many of the visitors.

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

I occasionally run that course. It's nearby, and you can do 5km without crossing traffic. I don't go often though, as it always tends to be crowded and I prefer a bit more solitude.

I am not racing or trying to beat a time so it's easy for me to slow down and wait for a wide place to pass or give a wide berth. I dislike the large packs of runners. University sports clubs doing their training or other running clubs that run two or three abreast and are in competitive mode. They are the ones more likely to be bumping and jostling, though most of them are pretty decent as well. Truly competitive runners in training should be running somewhere else.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Carry a samurai sword and be prepared to use it. I am sorry but joggers d not have the right of way, just as skate boarders do not, nor do bicyclists on the side walk.

8 ( +10 / -2 )

So darn true MATAKA!!! Justbthe other day while waking my dg I came across an elderly man who threw his empty can of coffe over a bush ion the pavement. I called his attention and he gladly licked it up and bright it with him. One time in the park, another elderly man was eating his bread and threw his wrapper beneath the bench were he was seated...it's actually the elderly that lacks manners, even in trains when they rush just to have a seat, in groceries when they don't feel like lining up for your turn..so on and so forth!

1 ( +5 / -4 )

If you can't mind your manners, don't run.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

Haha the math tells us that about 0.000078% of the runners are a problem, even if you factor in the non-reporting bit its clearly a lot of hulabaloo over nothing.

Just teach everyone a bit of manners, have the runners go one way only & let the chips fall where they may

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Strict codes of behavioral conduct. I like that idea. We can learn a lot from Japan.

-7 ( +2 / -9 )

Abdella - when or if you ever live in Japan, you'll see that's the reality is often very different. By the way, what country do you come from where basic codes of conduct are non-existent?

4 ( +8 / -4 )

"but the majority of Japanese people do not complain,"

It depends. If you do something culturally acceptable, like smoke and spit in public, then no complaints. If you do something modern or different, especially if it's foreign, like throwing a frisbee or skateboarding, then the complaints and prohibitions come fast and furious. Jogging around the venerable palace is clearly in the latter category.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

This is caused by a lack of space - right? Solution : Open the entirety of the grounds for public use and recreation. Just a thought.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

"While some older Japanese bemoan slipping standards of behavior"

Yes, except this bemoaning have nothing to do with politeness, but rather, thefact the younger people are no longer willing to fall in line with the time-honoured tradition of the elderly (men) first simply because they are old.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

"While some older Japanese bemoan slipping standards of behavior"

Well, thay hardly set a good example. Most of the people I see with zero manners here are old people, especially old women.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

@Alex Einz

You win a prize for being the 1 in 100 to offer a useful and practical solution instead of a lopsided opinion.

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

Joggers are far more annoying than public cigarette smokers and therefore need to be banned.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

These jogging mobs should know that there is a british scientific study of elevated lung cancer risk they found in joggers in London. When they studied it, they found the joggers were running by a road and inhaling a lot more carcinogens from car exhaust than walkers. I strongly suggest jogging in parks or wooded areas or beaches.

Second point, for some reason (and I have felt this myself) there is some sort of animalistic urge or feeling of victory when running past a slower person. I often walk around a jogging path at a big park and even if it is just me and there is 6 feet of space, they will jog right up by me often brushing me.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

CraigHicks... thank you... I have been running at imperial for the last 5 or so years and only last year moved to komazawa, due mostly to a dedicated running route... Fact is, running is endorsed at Imperial, most running clubs and NPOs hold racing competitions there, even the Ekiden teams practice there regularly. There is no better running route in the center of Tokyo.

Since Tokyo is also trying to present itself as a sport city, the most logical and complete solution would be to create a separate 2 way route adjacent to the walkway, everyone will be happy and no more collisions will occur. The whole rule idea is idiotic ( and I actually participated in the survey they did with the runners 3 or 4 years ago before they erected more signs ) , fact is tourists are many , slow and mostly country folks that are quite shocked by the big city and oblivious to anything but their camera and tour guide .

And yes, the whole 3 in a row and 2 in a row runners there definitely make the issue worse...running should be one on one there with the exception of passing by faster runners.

But then again... Tokyo prefers to develop Odaiba.. place nobody goes to and that probably will be covered by water within 10 years... just because they can make more cash that way...

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Alex, In order to make a dedicated running lane,... do you suggest they take out one lane of car traffic all the way around? That might work. You'd still have the points where pedestrians and tourists cross over the running lane to get into and out of the palace grounds. It would still be an improvement. I wonder how critical the automotive lanes are there.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

I'm not thinking it is the joggers fault more like the tourists stopping in the middle of the sidewalk and taking photos and blocking the sidewalk in large groups.

Ambrosia already mentioned it, but this is not a dedicated jogging course. The tourists have just as much right to stand in the middle of the sidewalk taking photos as the joggers do to jog past them. If they accidentally bump others, it is common courtesy to apologise. If they are deliberately bumping into people they deem to be pesky interferences to their jogging, then it is quite honestly an act of assault.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Actually the roads around are quite wide with the exception of the north part ( which has not much traffic ) I believe cutting a bit of the walkway and a bit of a road to create a 1.5m running path ( like in komazawa ) should be quite feasible ... yes definitely there are places where people would need to cross but that is only on green signals really so should be not that big of a deal. The main part is once that is dedicated to running, there is no conflict anymore

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

... or another option joggers need to get over their massive sense of entitlement and realise that they do NOT have right of way just because they're jogging, and jogging does not suddenly entitle them to assault people or otherwise break the law.

@Frungy--As if pedestrians don't feel a massive sense of entitlement! They will dawdle, lurch, suddenly step back or stop dead with absolutely no clue of what the hell is going on around them. THAT sir is the true problem. I have serious doubts any jogger ever intentionally ran into anyone. Its the pedestrians that suddenly move into their way, or just plain block the way, having no clue or care that others would like to pass. Heck, I have this problem just walking!

If EVERYBODY paid some attention there would be no problem. But we know that is not going to happen. So there needs to be rules. There need to be rules for both pedestrians and joggers, and they need to keep to one side at the very least. It needs to be a rule. It also needs to be a rule that you cannot take up over half a path with your friends all marching in a broad line. It needs to be a rule complete with possible tickets.

We can talk about bicyclists some other time. I agree with some of your points about them, but not all. They need new rules too.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

@Mataka

Slam! Sadly this is all to often the case...Thumbs up.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

There is no right to jog whenever you want.The etiquette for runners has always been that in streets and public places, walkers, playing children, cycles/cars , well everybody else has the absolute priority on you. If you can't run without bothering, find another place. But while Osaka has really many dedicated running paths, that seems to be a rarity in Tokyo. Not a reason for bad behavior, but after all the fuss about the marathon and olympics, they could move their rear about it at the City Hall.

Chiyoda Ward officials say they have received around 100 complaints in the last 3-4 years,

Arrest, make them pay fine and apologize to victim, take repeat offenders to court.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Joggers are a real nuisance! There need to be new laws to curb these selfish people who think the roads and sidewalks belong to them! Next time they demand that walking passerby's have no right to complain because, hey, it's for the ALMIGHTY sports!

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

One funny thing about this article is that it says the pedestrians complained. Does that mean they were in the right? The pedestrians claim the joggers did not say sorry. Perhaps the joggers felt it was the pedestrians who should have said sorry? Should we judge with only one side of a story?

Joggers are few and pedestrians are many, and most of the responses here sound like a desire for a tyranny of the majority. It sounds like you all think pedestrians are an infallible class of people who should be treated like nobility and should be completely unrestrained and carefree, even careLESS.

I have to disagree. Pedestrians need rules and order too, because I have had trouble with them driving, cycling and even walking what little I do! And when I do walk, I get out of people's way. I especially get out of cars' ways. Its not that hard when you are walking! You stop, sidestep etc. And it beats getting flattened! I look around. I look over my shoulder. I know what is going on around me when I move. Its not that hard. And it burns me up to see people plodding on while watching their shoes. How is it that other people are responsible for them when they blunder in the way?

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

lack of space is always a bad recipe for frustrations in japan. Unfort Tokyo has a highly dense population...it'd be good if the majority had proper manners.

Unfort this is not the case and it is something I constantly need to put up with (multiple times) on a daily basis e.g. running into someone too engaged in their iphone, mama charis riding dangerously on the sidewalk nearing hitting my pregnant wife, someone placing priority for their shopping bags and not giving the seat to my wife, the list unfort goes on...

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I go to the Imperial Palace to run once in a while, and indeed there are a lot of people walking there. When you want to pass those people I think simply saying "sumimasen", slowing down, and waiting for them to move is the normal thing to do lol. "Oh look at me, I'm a pro runner so get out of my way because I'm going for the world record!" Jerks. As a pedestrian, I have had that problem, mostly with bicycles though. Like coming at high speed towards you, when you have full right to walk on the walkways. And then the "rin rin" noise of them really pisses me off.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Joggers are a real nuisance!

Yep, SOME are, I've seen the rudeness firsthand, it is annoying. But lets look at the stats in the story, 100 complaints in 3 years with 10,000 runners per day over last 3-4 years. That is 0.000913%, hardly worthy of tarring the whole jogging community with the "bad" label. Yes the REAL number will be much higher, but it won't be the majority - not even close (and many "joggers" at the Palace are barely more than fast walkers - it attracts all levels. Some pedestrians also also inconsiderate, and the fact remains they both have some right of way. Sadly, there are very few places you can run for 5km without needing to stop at a traffic light or to cross a road, so there is an appeal. If joggers don't get their act together, they'll be banned based on the behaviour of relatively few people.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

That's what happens in a crowded city with NO SPACE!

0 ( +2 / -2 )

not that many complaints if you ask me.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

@Alex Einz

You win a prize for being the 1 in 100 to offer a useful and practical solution instead of a lopsided opinion.

@CraigHicks - If you actually took 30 seconds to think about it, you'd see that it's neither useful, nor practical (which carry the same meaning, by the way). Do you really think the Tokyo gov't is going to suddenly build a running track around the most expensive real estate on the planet? If they even tape off a 1.5 m swath,do you honestly think tourists in town for the weekend are going to know what it means? If joggers feel free to purposely run into tourists taking photos at one at the most popular tourist destinations in Japan because of their false sense of entitlement, then I have no problem seeing them getting a beat-down.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

Alex they weren't thumbing you down for making a running path suggesting, they're thumbing you down for saying biased BS like "Fact is most of these visitors dont care about the runners, and not making way so they deserve to be yelled at."

You didn't even need to inform us later that you were actually one of these rude runners yourself, that part was clear to us from the start. Don't force all your exercise issues onto pedestrian/ tourist attraction pathways unless you can do it without bothering everyone on the path, where-guess what- pedestrians have right of way. You brutally mow grandma down? Prepare for a well-deserved lawsuit.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

If joggers feel free to purposely run into tourists taking photos at one at the most popular tourist destinations in Japan because of their false sense of entitlement, then I have no problem seeing them getting a beat-down.

Slight case of overbombing! Try not to tar a community based on the actions of a few, as it doesn't add up (the maths state 0.000913%). YES, every effort should be made to ensure that no incidents occur here, but try not to paint an image of wanton violence by what would seem to be one incident per 11 days, one one incident per 110,000 people. I think you'll find more violence at gateball events than here. But, I wish SOME runners would be more respectful of the need for balance.

@jump....

Don't force all your exercise issues onto pedestrian/ tourist attraction pathways unless you can do it without bothering everyone on the path, where-guess what- pedestrians have right of way.

Do you want to quote where the "right of way" you mentioned is listed in the legal system? It is nothing to do with rights, it is just plain courtesy to ensure you use public footpaths responsibly.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

For each 10000 runners there could be some hundreds that thought the road is for them and not for the tourists, always happened in every part of the world. Running counterwise the tourists? This is hard, the runners go to both sides!!!

Solution: Open a road specific for the runners, however they must treat it like it is a running road. As sometimes happened in occidental parks where the space or events defined for runners (not runs, just when the goverment closes the street to allow free walking around) the place began to be filled with bikes, skateboards and other stuff that put in danger the people that have fun on foot.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

If joggers feel free to purposely run into tourists taking photos

@Hoserfella--Why would a jogger purposely run into anyone? Why would someone who did this be confused with an actual jogger?

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Control Freak - because some people are a**s with a sense if entitlement. These ones just happen to b runners

3 ( +7 / -4 )

@Miso. You need me to quote the legal system to learn that when you're walking on a sidewalk and a monster-truck/bulldozer/cyclist/jogger rams into you from behind, you can't be held legally accountable for not seeing through the back of your head and leaping gracefully out of the way of all incoming hazards? Poor ojii-chan never had a chance...

4 ( +5 / -1 )

@jump

You need me to quote the legal system to learn that when you're walking on a sidewalk and a monster-truck/bulldozer/cyclist/jogger rams into you from behind, you can't be held legally accountable for not seeing through the back of your head and leaping gracefully out of the way of all incoming hazards? Poor ojii-chan never had a chance...

Yes I do. Unlike many other countries, Japan has an awareness unlike any other country I have been to of self responsibility. What you refer to as "bulldozers" are people using a public walkway. At which point, you will have to describe to me WHAT us a safe speed to use that walk way. If you decide to run for a bus, do you become a bulldozer? Have you NEVER ran for a bus or ever picked up speed whilst walking in your human life? So quote me the legal speed from the system you are mentioning that states the maximum velocity anyone can use a walkway. Also, please quote me the stats that say the complaints have come from "Poor ojii-chan" as stated in your example. Respectfully, I think you are wrong.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

describe to me WHAT us a safe speed to use that walk way.

It's any speed that makes you don't ram into others.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

No Miso: Slight case of overbombing! Try not to tar a community based on the actions of a few, as it doesn't add up (the maths state 0.000913%). YES, every effort should be made to ensure that no incidents occur here, but try not to paint an image of wanton violence by what would seem to be one incident per 11 days, one one incident per 110,000 people. I think you'll find more violence at gateball events than here.

Seriously, how long is it going to take and how many times are you going to repeat the same information before it occurs to you that the numbers you're citing don't even come close to representing the number of actual incidents? The majority of people simply aren't going to take the time and trouble to report such incidents so think of the numbers you keep citing as the anomaly. The number of people who reported being bashed into are the anomaly. The people, such as myself and many friends who've had the same experience but don't report being bashed into, are the norm.

Unlike many other countries, Japan has an awareness unlike any other country I have been to of self responsibility.

Yes, unlike many other countries I've lived in and visited too. Japan is unlike them in the sense that so many Japanese seem to have zero awareness of what is going on around them. Walking around here I'm often reminded of Mr. Magoo, a nation crowded with Mr. Magoos.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Walking around here I'm often reminded of Mr. Magoo, a nation crowded with Mr. Magoos.

This is so true, and it is extremely stressful for me navigating my way through crowds (or even not particularly crowded spaces for that matter), because I never know when somebody is just going to suddenly step out in front of me, or suddenly stop in front of me without warning. Many people appear to be in a complete trance, completely oblivious to anything that is going on around them. I honestly think that they have very poor peripheral vision.

This particular complaint is one of the most common ones that I hear about life in Japan.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Cos

It's any speed that makes you don't ram into others.

Which could be a snails pace, but just as serious if you are a heavy person. Point is that there is no delineation between a walker and a runner.

Ambrosia

Seriously, how long is it going to take and how many times are you going to repeat the same information before it occurs to you that the numbers you're citing don't even come close to representing the number of actual incidents?

Until you can do the maths. In the time period, quoted ten million people would have been jogging around the Palace. 100 people reporting incidents IS the tip of the iceberg and I already mentioned that...

The people, such as myself and many friends who've had the same experience but don't report being bashed into, are the norm.

If you do nothing, then nothing gets done, right? Joggers WILL lose the privilege to run around the Palace if they don't clean up their act (already said that as well), but there are a huge number of Koban around the Palace so it couldn't be easier to report. Much more effective than waiting for JT to post a story about it and then complain about it here.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

Control Freak - because some people are a**s with a sense if entitlement. These ones just happen to b runners

@hoserfella--But they would not be real joggers would they? If such people who run for the purpose of slamming into others exist, they cannot be many. Should we punish genuine joggers for them?

Besides, I think there is a sense of entitlement on both sides, although I have to admit, I have seen it much more on the part of people walking as I don't go where people jog. But man is there an awful lot of oblivious people walking around Japan!

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

@hoserfella--But they would not be real joggers would they?

No. They would be hockey players.

Check!

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Actually - no, I am not rude and never hit a person running, people making assumptions are not very bright apparently. I always remark runners who run in doubles or triples, and actually the semi-pro real fast runners are the most courteous and can easily judge situation to avoid the obstacle.

A run way would be a proper solution, each will have their way and both will be in the right sticking to their own way. Btw, a walking pedestrian is NOT always in the right. You have no right blocking all the road if you are a 10 people family. People walk there too, and blocking the road is illegal and a social nuisance. I DO NOT NEED to ask permission to pass walking or running. It is just a common sense.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

No Miso: 100 people reporting incidents IS the tip of the iceberg and I already mentioned that...

You either don't understand what tip of the iceberg means or you've forgotten what you said a few posts back.

...but try not to paint an image of wanton violence by what would seem to be one incident per 11 days, one one incident per 110,000 people.

The bit above, written by you, clearly suggests that you don't think the number of people being assaulted is great. Saying 1000 people reporting incidents is the tip of the iceberg suggests that you think there are many, many more who have been assaulted. Which is it?

If you do nothing, then nothing gets done, right?

I never said I didn't do anything. I said, my friends and I didn't report it to the police which is not the same as doing nothing, although very often reporting things to the police is the same as doing nothing.

....there are a huge number of Koban around the Palace....

A huge number? Around the palace itself I believe there are two or three. There are another two, I think, inside the grounds but that's not where people are running and that area is usually closed at 5:00 or so. If it is three around the koban then that's one koban every 1.6 kilometer, hardly a huge number and I've walked by then many times and not seen anyone in them, at least not in the front. Even if it's four, that's one koban every 1.25 kilometer. Still not a huge number, especially if you've got to drag yourself and some runner to the koban. Otherwise what are you going to do, go in and say "I was bashed into by a runner". Good luck having anything done about it. You're going to give a description of half the people running around the palace while the one who assaulted you is probably long gone. Yeah, I can see why most people don't bother reporting such incidents.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

I DO NOT NEED to ask permission to pass walking or running. It is just a common sense.

@Alex Actually, common sense says that you do, it's called "pardon me"; it's a little something people with manners say when someone is in your way. But hey, pushing them to the ground or sulking behind them for 20 minutes is probably easier right, since you don't actually require basic human contact that way? You think you're so freaking entitled to your pathway that every man woman and child needs to get the hell out of your way when you approach within a 10 m radius? Get real.

If you decide to run for a bus?

Yes, of course I've had to run for a bus. And when I do, I realize that I would become responsible for any damage or annoyance I cause because of it, and behave accordingly and respectfully. Did you know that it's actually possible to slow your legs back down to a walk if it gets too congested? Yes, the human body is amazing that way. Also I tend to tend to run far AROUND people, not THROUGH people, because that could be endangering others.. Too crowded to run? Then I don't... Go elsewhere or miss the damn bus... I'm not going to risk hurting others over my own selfish affairs.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

@ambro

You either don't understand what tip of the iceberg means or you've forgotten what you said a few posts back.

90% of an iceberg's mass is underwater, right? Ah yes, thus was when I referred to runners needing to show more respect, right? And in the response to the comment that suggested runners were actually targetting people to run into - hopefully you don't agree with that. It was contextual to that comment, but even if you multiply the numbers by a thousand, it still isn't a large number. And we don't have a breakdown of exactly how "rude" the runners were in this spate of rudeness the article refers to. That degree of rudeness might refine the numbers more, as we wouldn't really want to worry too much about the lighter levels of rudeness.

Even if it's four, that's one koban every 1.25 kilometer.

There are 5 (icluding a sentry box style one) that I know of, and individual police stationed at other points as well. Sorry the police don't always stand outside waiting for your complaint - that is rude too! By reporting you can produce statistics. Statistics can help shed light when you get people clashing with handbags over how bad a problem really is. Also, had you reported it, and lets just say that the guy was 175cms in red shorts and yellow top, Koban A could ring ahead to Koban B or C and at least stop the guy (or similar) you mentioned. Nope, not guaranteed, but as I said, better than just writing about it here (I realise you said that you didn't do "nothing" btw, but not clear what positive actions you did). At least by bothering the Police they would get frustrated to the point that they would ban joggers as it wastes too much of their time. Not doing that persists the situation.

That aside, I really do hope that the runners clean up (as I mentioned a few times now). I'm guessing there are a large number of issues at the junction at Ichibancho near the UK Embassy - the path thins drastically as it crosses the moat and even two people would block the thoroughfare completely. Having a coloured path like a cycle track to separate walk from jog/cycle might be a positive step forward.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

... Set up Cyclist cops... or Runner cops for that matter. Hey...Abe-san, here's an idea for you... Runner lanes!! We have them back in the States.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

I have a better idea, dudes should run only from say 11pm until 5 am, me no want to see any dudes. But in the day time me go take walk in opposite direction to make sure all pretty girl are running safety around and around and up and down, me protect them from bad dirty hentai who do more than look, Me really enjoy eye candy so dudes, be a man and only run when it rain or snow or too hot but make sure only at night from say 11 pm until 5 am. This make Tokyo a sexier and happier city, we need more eye candy in Tokyo and if you have it, make sure to shake it and be proud of your body!!

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

jumpultimatestars only your commmon sense.. that wouldnt be common though... since that is a public road, blocking it by one group is illegal. The only common sense is for the blocking party to clear a part of the road allowing others to go thru and yes you are right they should not be knocked but reported to police for blocking a public road... which I actually did couple of times.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

@hoserfella--But they would not be real joggers would they? If such people who run for the purpose of slamming into others exist, they cannot be many. Should we punish genuine joggers for them?

Control Freak- so "genuine" runners have all taken an oath of integrity? I must have missed that day.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Its a shame that the Imperial Palace has been basically reduced to a tourist attraction for Chinese tourists with sharp elbows, loud voices and the manners of a peasant. I look at the vast grounds and imagine what it must have been like when thousands of Japanese killed themselves at the end of the war. It may not be a sacred place to many even in Japan anymore... but the spirit of the land and the spirit of the people are what is "sacred" and should be respected not only by foreigners but by all who set foot inside this very special place.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Miso No: 90% of an iceberg's mass is underwater, right? Ah yes, thus was when I referred to runners needing to show more respect, right?

Again that contradicts your suggestion that there aren't many incidences of runners bashing into pedestrians so you've not cleared up anything.

And in the response to the comment that suggested runners were actually targetting people to run into - hopefully you don't agree with that.

I don't think they target people but neither do I think they will necessarily avoid people. As I said, my experience as a former runner informs me that they will purposely shoulder and elbow people even though they may not have intentionally "targeted" that particular person. Call it irritated opportunism, if you will.

There are 5 (icluding a sentry box style one) that I know of, and individual police stationed at other points as well.

I stand corrected. There is one every kilometer.

Sorry the police don't always stand outside waiting for your complaint - that is rude too!

I never said they weren't standing outside waiting for my complaint so there's no need to try and put words in my mouth. I said I've walked by the kobans many times and not seen anyone inside, at least not in the front. Do you have a complaint to make every time you walk past a koban? I thought not, so you do realize how ridiculous it is to assume that others do, right?

By reporting you can produce statistics.....At least by bothering the Police they would get frustrated to the point that they would ban joggers as it wastes too much of their time.

Sorry to disappoint you but I'm neither interested in producing statistics nor in having the joggers banned. And clearly my reports are unnecessary anyway, as they've put up signs and cautioned runners without my having made any official complaints.

I've gone to the police here to return things I've found, to report something of mine being stolen and to make a complaint about an unprovoked assault and the way I was dealt with has put me off ever going to a koban for anything but directions unless it's an absolute emergency. I'd advise other people to avoid them too unless they want to be treated like they are the criminal and to have most of their night completely wasted. If you've had better experiences with them, I'm happy for you.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Sorry to disappoint you but I'm neither interested in producing statistics nor in having the joggers banned.

No problem, and certainly no need to apologise - this is just a forum and people will have differing ideas. I think that when my comments are in context they may make more sense. Apologies for not being clearer. What I was clumsily indicating is that even the 100 incidents being just 10% of the larger iceberg, it really is a drop in the ocean if you consider that the total number of possible collisions is going to be the total number of runners, multiplied by the number of walkers/tourists. That is 10,000,000 times whatever. Is the 100 too large? My view is we should aim for 0 cases, hopefully without banning anyone.

As I said, my experience as a former runner informs me that they will purposely shoulder and elbow people even though they may not have intentionally "targeted" that particular person. Call it irritated opportunism, if you will.

OK - as a current runner, I don't think that way, I'd call it aggrevated assault!

I've gone to the police here to return things I've found, to report something of mine being stolen and to make a complaint about an unprovoked assault and the way I was dealt with has put me off ever going to a koban for anything but directions unless it's an absolute emergency. I'd advise other people to avoid them too unless they want to be treated like they are the criminal and to have most of their night completely wasted. If you've had better experiences with them, I'm happy for you.

Will confess I'm sad to hear this as I've had nothing but good experiences at Koban's all over Tokyo, and even one time at the Palace.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Kimokekahuna Hawaii: Its a shame that the Imperial Palace has been basically reduced to a tourist attraction for Chinese tourists with sharp elbows, loud voices and the manners of a peasant. I look at the vast grounds and imagine what it must have been like when thousands of Japanese killed themselves at the end of the war

So, you do get an Internet connection deep underground in your nationalistic, Japanese-power, right-wing, militia training bunker. Amazing!

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Basic rule of foot traffic and snowboarding/skiing is the faster people yield to the slower people. It just makes sense because most of the time the slower people don't even notice the faster people. Signs don't hurt as people don't usually realize things and helps new people that start to frequent the area. Nice snipping it in the bud before it actually becomes a big problem.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

In the joggers defense, older Japanese people tend to be oblivious to what's going on around them.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

God these people are annoying, Japanese and foreigners alike. There are plenty of places to jog in Tokyo, why do they insist on congregating there?

Last time there, I saw a bald-headed foreigner jogging with his toddler in a pram. Every now and again, he would push the pram forward, let it go, and then catch the (most probably terrified) child on the way back. This is not sport, this is look-at-me idiocy.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

In the joggers defense, older Japanese people tend to be oblivious to what's going on around them.

Yep, reduced sensory awareness. Comes with limited hearing, vision and smell. Not exactly their fault.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Officials say tourists and older visitors to the grounds have complained of runners crashing into them from behind and then trotting off without saying sorry.

I bet most of these runners who bother to come out here for a jog are rich residents from nearby or work at the megabanks. Since when did these people start respecting the common people? these victims are more like ants to them than people.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

I bet most of these runners who bother to come out here for a jog are rich residents from nearby or work at the megabanks. Since when did these people start respecting the common people? these victims are more like ants to them than people.

A very interesting theory, but not even close. The rich ones just use treadmills at very expensive clubs.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Thanks to El Buda Mexicano for the practical advice to improve daily life in Japan. ¡Arriba los Budas Mexicanos!

0 ( +0 / -0 )

A very interesting theory, but not even close. The rich ones just use treadmills at very expensive clubs.

Haha, only the old money waste their inheritance on gyms (also the palace is a long while way from the Tama River). Professionals (not your average salarymen drones) go out for jogs in the early morning and during lunch breaks.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Haha, only the old money waste their inheritance on gyms

If only that were true. Anyway, the Palace attracts a very wide range, from pensioners down to teenagers.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

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