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Lesbian couple hold symbolic wedding ceremony in Tokyo

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I would marry EITHER OF THEM...WOW.

-20 ( +18 / -37 )

Nice looking couple.

It would be nice if it were legal for them for real.

Live and let live.

20 ( +28 / -8 )

Hope they are able have a marriage that is officially recognized soon.

14 ( +20 / -6 )

With such a conservative Japanese society, how did they convince their 80 relatives and friends to show up for the event? Won't they be ostracized now? I'm just saying. That's usually how it goes here-

-13 ( +12 / -25 )

I wholeheartedly salute these two brave, trailblazing women. Go get 'em!

18 ( +22 / -4 )

I would marry EITHER OF THEM...WOW.

But they wouldn't marry you.

Even if they were straight.

33 ( +43 / -11 )

congrats to the very lovely couple.

11 ( +15 / -4 )

Congratulations!

9 ( +14 / -5 )

They're showing this on the Japanese news as well - I'm surprised!

7 ( +11 / -4 )

Don't wanna piss on anyone's strawberrys here...but can they BOTH be brides? Congrats anyway....

-23 ( +8 / -31 )

can they BOTH be brides?

Obviously they can.

13 ( +20 / -7 )

Kinda takes wedding and married out of conventional context.

I do wish them happiness and their choice or partner is entirely acceptable to me. Terminology is a bit cloudy though.

-17 ( +6 / -23 )

it's their freedom but wanna say this kind of marriage is not to create the generation or against the natural.

-24 ( +8 / -32 )

this kind of marriage is not to create the generation or against the natural.

The two girls in question were talking on the news this morning about how they want to have children.

And it's entirely natural - homosexuality has been around as long as humans have. Society has been holding them down though - going 'against the natural'. It's only as we become enlightened as a species that we are starting to see our oppression for what it is.

7 ( +16 / -9 )

Good for them!

Nothing unnatural about it. Love is love. Attraction is attraction. Two mutually-consenting adults. No need to question.

As for children, not everyone wants to or needs to procreate.

7 ( +11 / -4 )

While Japan is largely tolerant of homosexuality, (LGBT people) may be refused tenancy.

I've been trying to wrap my head around this sentence.

I think it means homosexuals have few difficulties in Japan except for the lack of government protection for their most fundamental human rights.

So not tolerant at all then.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

Geoff GillespieApr. 20, 2015 - 08:10AM JST Don't wanna piss on anyone's strawberrys here...but can they BOTH be brides? Congrats anyway....

Of course. In precisely the same way that almost all women get married in white despite not being a virgin. Come on, weddings aren't about reality, they're about a fantasy.

4 ( +8 / -4 )

@Frungy. . . . "despite not being a virgin". "they're about fantasy". Lmao. So true.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

It is rather irritating that the article doesn't tell us whether this wedding took place in Shibuya, with its new progressive policy, or in some other part of Tokyo.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Drop dead Strangerland

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

The ceremony was held in Shinjuku's Kabukicho.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Some of the comments above make me truly sad. I'm a white guy married to a Japanese girl and that was considered wrong not so long ago.

Two people going into a commitment to care for each other for the rest of their lives is something to be applauded and their gender should not be an issue.

23 ( +25 / -2 )

I wish them happiness.

But I'm surprised their agencies let them go ahead.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

No one including the government should have the right to tell you who you can and cannot marry. Individual rights must be protected regardless of sexual orientation.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

Frungy APR. 20, 2015 - 08:50AM JST "Geoff GillespieApr. 20, 2015 - 08:10AM JST Don't wanna piss on anyone's strawberrys here...but can they BOTH be brides? Congrats anyway...." Of course. In precisely the same way that almost all women get married in white despite not being a virgin. Come on, weddings aren't about reality, they're about a fantasy.

Frungy, that implies that there is some kind of objective reality to what a wedding consists of. It's not a fantasy if the brides decide that someone else's "only virgins wear white" rule isn't something they don't want to follow, nor is it a fantasy if two women decide that they are married despite some grognards on the internet insisting that they can't be. A wedding is a cultural construct that exists between the people who participate in it. It is real so long as the people who participate in it decide it is real. It doesn't matter what "rules" people who aren't participants in the wedding believe in.

6 ( +9 / -3 )

after the phillipines and thailand, i could see japan as being the next domino to fall for gay marriage. despite it's modesty, japan is quite tolerant when it comes to the LGTBQ community.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

jpn_guy APR. 20, 2015 - 08:50AM JST "While Japan is largely tolerant of homosexuality, (LGBT people) may be refused tenancy." I've been trying to wrap my head around this sentence.

I'm interpreting it (perhaps wrongly?) it to mean that under Japanese law it would be legal for a landlord to refuse to lease an apartment intended for a married couple to a homosexual couple, in much the same way that it is legal for a landlord to refuse to lease an apartment to a foreigner if they believe foreigners are collectively "difficult".

Which is pretty poor. That's a legitimate gripe about intolerant treatment of LGBT people here. But there are a lot of places in the world where LGBT people face worse discrimination. Probably, a not-insignificant chunk of the people who read this story come from such countries. So like it is with so many other forms of discrimination, Japan is a mixed bag.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

jpn_guy APR. 20, 2015 - 08:50AM JST "While Japan is largely tolerant of homosexuality, (LGBT people) may be refused tenancy." I've been trying to wrap my head around this sentence.

I'm interpreting it (perhaps wrongly?) it to mean that under Japanese law it would be legal for a landlord to refuse to lease an apartment intended for a married couple to a homosexual couple, in much the same way that it is legal for a landlord to refuse to lease an apartment to a foreigner if they believe foreigners are collectively "difficult".

Which is pretty poor. That's a legitimate gripe about intolerant treatment of LGBT people here. But there are a lot of places in the world where LGBT people face worse discrimination. Probably, a not-insignificant chunk of the people who read this story come from such countries. So like it is with so many other forms of discrimination, Japan is a mixed bag.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

My best wishes to this brave couple.

6 ( +9 / -3 )

But I'm surprised their agencies let them go ahead.

Something tells me these women aren't the type to let their agencies 'let' them do anything. If they were that type, they likely wouldn't have gotten married in the first place, or if they did, they wouldn't have done it in such a public manner.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Hmmm, should they be using the word 'lesbian'? Shouldn't it be 'same gender'?

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

Judging by US TV programs you see here, it would seem that Americans spend most of their time either talking about their sex life or having sex. Among Japanese, private sex life is not a topic of casual conversation usually. Maybe after having a few beers with the boys there is a little talk about it. Since we do not spend all of our time talking about sex, Americans say we are repressed. No, it is just that we are not obscessed about it. So in the case of gays, I've never experienced outright rejection because of being gay. And when people figure out a fellow worker is gay, nothing happens. We do not talk about it because we are repressed, but because it is just not natural topic of conversation. Of course, we have to contribute something to a conversation when foreign friends start talking about it. People ignore it. Japan was never Christianized so we do not have the idea of "evil" applied to sex. Gay may be "hentai", but just because something is "hentai" does not mean you wouldn't like to try it. But for sentimental reasons, I like the idea of gay marriage. I will marry my partner the instant Shinjuku says, OK!

5 ( +12 / -7 )

@gokai-wo-maneku "spending most of their time either talking about their sex life or having sex"

This is quite typical for people with rather primitive mindset. As for those "married lesbians", there is nothing to be proud of.

-22 ( +2 / -24 )

Gender is nothing more than a social construction.

Happiness is real! I wish them nothing but happiness!

3 ( +7 / -4 )

Lovely couple, congrats! I wish them many happy years ahead.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Good on them! They look so happy; it's such a disgrace that there are still shadow beings out there that would actively prevent them from being happy together

5 ( +6 / -1 )

What is all this talk about agencies in the comments? Are they famous already?

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Gender is nothing more than a social construction.

I don't know about that. Gender is a natural occuring phenomenon in all its forms. It is the constrictions that are needlessly and unnaturally placed upon them that are the social constructions.

can they BOTH be brides?

Yes, they already are. I see no reason why they should not be able to.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

While Japan is largely tolerant of homosexuality, (LGBT people) may be refused tenancy.

I've been trying to wrap my head around this sentence.

My take was that the average Japanese is not anti-gay, and there's no widespread hatred of gays, but no official recognition or protections.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

as calls grow for Japan to legalise same-sex marriage.

Why? No need for Japan to imitate the US and west on this. If anything this is one point they don't need to change on. I am opposed to discrimination against gays and homosexuals, but as for marriage that's a whole different issue

-20 ( +3 / -21 )

To make it more real one lady should dress like a guy....

-21 ( +3 / -25 )

@gokai_wo_maneku

Great answer, and I say that as an American. Though I don't think it's so much an obsession with sex, as the American believe that everything (I mean everything) has to be front and center. Personally, I find it insulting when someone is referred to as a "lesbian guitarist" or "gay author." As though their sexuality is more important than the art they create.

7 ( +9 / -2 )

@25

Having one lady dress as a bloke would make it less "real".

It's a lesbian wedding.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

No need for Japan to imitate the US and west on this.

Exactly. They should do it because it's the right thing to do, not because the west is doing it.

I am opposed to discrimination against gays and homosexuals, but as for marriage that's a whole different issue

Yeah it's entirely different other than the fact that it's entirely discrimination.

6 ( +11 / -5 )

Japan has been "surprisingly" tolerant of homosexual love from old times, though, much had not been said about female homosexuality in the past. But I hear that it was apparently being practiced secretly in the old days in Japan as well. I mean, Japanese are relatively free from homosexual bias.

But, when it comes to homosexual marriage, it has been another thing like other countries.

At any rate, I'd like to give the couple my deepest congratulations.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

I would marry EITHER OF THEM...WOW.

Either you are young or still unmarried.

But they wouldn't marry you. Even if they were straight.

Glad to know you have the insider's tip on their taste in men.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

I am opposed to discrimination against gays and homosexuals, but as for marriage that's a whole different issue.

Why do you think denying homosexuals marriage rights is different than discrimination? Denying one group of citizens the same rights as another group takes for granted is discrimination. Saying you're opposed to discrimination against gay people but making a HUGE exception for something that's a major issue in human rights for gay people doesn't make a bit of sense. Not one bit.

7 ( +10 / -3 )

No one cares how children are affected about what's moral or immoral these days. Forget about what's right or wrong. I guess that's why its just for show and wont be binding legally. Good fun is what it all boils down too when its all said and done.

-7 ( +8 / -15 )

No one cares how children are affected about what's moral or immoral these days.

Children are not affected in any negative way by gay marriage, and it's not even remotely immoral, so your comment has no relevance to the story.

Forget about what's right or wrong.

On the contrary, we do care about what's right and wrong, which is why we want to end the wrongful discrimination against homosexuals.

1 ( +8 / -7 )

I doubt they care what some foreign religion says about their lives. Especially since it doesn't matter in the least since marriage is as much a legal construct as it is a religious one and governments should ONLY deal with the legal aspects. And lots of people care what's moral and immoral. I think bigotry and prejudice against people just because you don't understand their love is immoral. Denying people human rights is immoral. Granting all citizens the same legal rights and benefits is moral.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

I am opposed to discrimination against gays and homosexuals, but as for marriage that's a whole different issue

I find the fact that you do not see the irony of your comment as equally fascinating as the actual irony of your comment.

5 ( +9 / -4 )

Exactly. They should do it because it's the right thing to do, not because the west is doing it.

What makes it right? When it comes to raising kids, who is going to be called "dad" and "mum"? People have been doing the "right thing" for some time now - to the detriment of our moral compass

-12 ( +4 / -16 )

What makes it right?

What makes it wrong?

When it comes to raising kids, who is going to be called "dad" and "mum"?

? That is what you are most worried about?

When it comes to raising kids, a healthy, happy environment is best.

8 ( +12 / -4 )

What makes it right? When it comes to raising kids, who is going to be called "dad" and "mum"? People have been doing the "right thing" for some time now - to the detriment of our moral compass

It's right because it's not discrimination.

And two loving parents is enough for kids. Sometimes one loving parent is enough. It doesn't have to be one of each sex. If you'd read any research into the children of homosexual couples, you'd know that they actually generally turn out more balanced than kids of heterosexual relationships.

2 ( +8 / -6 )

It's about time Japan recognizes and embrace the LGBT community. I wish them a very happy married life.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

When it comes to raising kids, who is going to be called "dad" and "mum"?

If my friend, who was raised by two moms, is any indication, they will both be called 'mom.' Is that okay?

Also, check out this article about a study of kids raised by gay couples. Summary: kids raised by gay couples are happier and healthier than those raised by 'traditional' couples. That should put your mind at rest.

Congratulations to the newly married couple.

http://www.salon.com/2014/07/06/worlds_largest_study_on_same_sex_parents_finds_kids_are_healthier_and_happier_than_peers/

5 ( +9 / -4 )

It seems I will have to be the voice of dissent here.

Also, check out this article about a study of kids raised by gay couples.

That argument cuts both ways https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/not-all-children-raised-by-gay-parents-support-gay-marriage-i-should-know-i

-9 ( +3 / -12 )

When it comes to raising kids, who is going to be called "dad" and "mum"?

What a ridiculous concern! What does that matter at all?

2 ( +7 / -5 )

What a ridiculous concern! What does that matter at all?

If you are a child being raised by same-sex parents, there's plenty of research to show that it does. Such marriages are a sign of our times, and may seem all sweetness and joy,(for the record I don't think homosexuality should be outlawed) but the welfare of kids must always be taken into account. Here is a fairly balanced link http://www.frc.org/issuebrief/new-study-on-homosexual-parents-tops-all-previous-research

-5 ( +5 / -10 )

And lesbians have the lowest rate of infidelity of any type of partnership.

The link I posted above shows other interesting trends though. At the end of the day (as with the debate over which drugs should be legalised) I think a balance must be found,(gay couples searching for their version of happiness, and the wellbeing of kids being raised by such couples) rather than opening the floodgates

-8 ( +2 / -10 )

Your argument is that kids may not get a good upbringing with homosexual parents, and therefore we shouldn't treat homosexual couples equal to heterosexual couples. The major hole in your argument is that kids are not guaranteed a good upbringing with heterosexual parents, so whether or not they will receive a good upbringing with homosexual parents is irrelevant to the question on whether or not homosexual couples should be treated with equality.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

As a foreigner working in the Japanese wedding business, I would be very happy to conduct a wedding ceremony for a same sex couple. They wouldn't be able to register with city hall, but forward-thinking wedding business companies in Japan should promote their services to the gay community.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

The major hole in your argument is that kids are not guaranteed a good upbringing with heterosexual parents

Again, the link I posted shows otherwise. Statistical evidence shows that kids benefit from having a clear cut father and mother figure in their lives whether or not their parents divorce.

-7 ( +4 / -11 )

Congrats to the beautiful couple!

1 ( +4 / -3 )

If it is a sign of anything, look at how many drag queen celebrities there are in Japan. Matsuko Delux is the biggest thing on TV (figuratively and literally). And there are cross-dressing singers like Miwa Akihiro or Mikawa Kenji who are not really "drag queens", but they perform all over Japan to full audiences. And there is the drag queen club in Shinjuku ni-chome that is on the Hato Bus tour. Farm families including their kids go in to watch the drag queen show. Anyway, there is a gay parade and all that stuff. Most of us just want to live our lives with the one we love. And it would be convenient to have legal recognition.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

The major hole in your argument is that kids are not guaranteed a good upbringing with heterosexual parents

Again, the link I posted shows otherwise.

Um, no it doesn't. If you feel otherwise, you're going to have to show me where exactly it says kids raised by heterosexual parents are guaranteed a good upbringing. And if you do so, I'll blow your link out of the water by posting link after link of examples of kids raised by heterosexual parents who had a horrible upbringing.

3 ( +8 / -5 )

First of all, marriage is between two people. Who invited government? For that matter, why do any religions even have a say?

Congrats to the couple. May they be happy together.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

I believe the above link states, that on the whole, kids brought up in a loving family with both a mother and father do better than kids brought up in a same sex household.

There are no guaranties in life my friend.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

I believe the above link states, that on the whole, kids brought up in a loving family with both a mother and father do better than kids brought up in a same sex household.

And plenty of kids raised in same sex households have a horrible upbringing. There is no guarantee. Therefore the argument that we should restrict same sex marriage because there may be problems for the children of said marriages is unjustifiable as there is no guarantee that children in a heterosexual household will have a good upbringing. It's a logically fallacy.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

It's the "children factor" that concerns me.

I've already shown how that is a ridiculous and irrelevant argument.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

slumdog: "Nice looking couple. It would be nice if it were legal for them for real. Live and let live."

Couldn't agree with you more. Hopefully they DO make it legal everywhere in the near future. It's high-time they do. If people want to be happy, let them be happy. And if they are TRULY happy, all of those worried about how a could might be raised need not -- the kid would be fine. I'd much rather see them raised with love and affection by a homosexual couple than an abusive, hateful environment like the ones we read about every day where one spouse tried to kill the other, where moms and dads kill their kids, etc. That is of course comparing the best of one side to the worst of other, so it's only fair to say that it doesn't matter what kind of family a child lives in so long as they are safe and cared for (and happy). It is not for us to choose what kind of partner others do.

Christopher: "Again, the link I posted shows otherwise. Statistical evidence shows that kids benefit from having a clear cut father and mother figure in their lives whether or not their parents divorce."

Quick question. Given all of the murders of children we've been reading about constantly, how many of them are linked to homosexual couples, since you have stats on how children benefit more from heterosexual parents and what not? Or are you going to tell us those dead kids are still better off than if they had had homosexual parents?

2 ( +6 / -4 )

I don't think providing children with the best possible upbringing that will give them the most love and happiness is a 'ridiculous and irrelevant' argument.

And again the above study proves that children in same sex families are at a disadvantage. Accept it or not, but facts are facts.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

And again the above study proves that children in same sex families are at a disadvantage. Accept it or not, but facts are facts.

That they are. As for legalising everything (in this case gay marriage) I hope a bit of moderation and common sense prevails. I'll post this link again (which is actually a letter) Absolutely brilliant. http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2015/02/14370/

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

All weddings are "symbolic". It's the registration that makes it legal.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

I don't think providing children with the best possible upbringing that will give them the most love and happiness is a 'ridiculous and irrelevant' argument.

If that were true, then we would require all parents to go through training, tests, and counseling before we allowed them to have children, and while they are raising them.

It's a ridiculous and irrelevant argument because trying to deny equal rights on the basis that children may potentially have a bad upbringing, when there is no degree they would get a good upbringing from heterosexual parents, makes no sense. Anyone who thinks it does isn't showing much intelligence.

That they are.

Your 'studies' are quite dubious. But that's beside the point, since as an argument against gay marriage, it still doesn't hold any water.

As for legalising everything (in this case gay marriage) I hope a bit of moderation and common sense prevails

Myself as well. But you are showing that some people are lacking in common sense.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Iam glad to see that Japan is slowly being dragged into the 21 century.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Thanks for the letter Chris: I'm sure a majority of kids forced to be raised in same same households feel similar. Probably the vast majority do.

I particularly liked the quote: In same-sex-headed households, the desires of the adults trump the rights of the child.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

While I agree that homosexuality has been around since the beginning, I disagree that it's (the act anyway) "natural". Commonplace yes, accepted by many yes, but not "natural".

-1 ( +8 / -9 )

For whatever reason, I like Japanese lesbians. I found it sexy.

-9 ( +1 / -9 )

Christopher Glen

Here is a fairly balanced link

I think not. FRC is the "Family Research Council" whose agenda is extremely homophobic.

I sincerely hope you don't expect any of us to buy into their "research".

4 ( +8 / -4 )

@sensei

Cholera is "natural", air-conditioning isn't. What's your point?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

'While I agree that homosexuality has been around since the beginning, I disagree that it's (the act anyway) "natural". Commonplace yes, accepted by many yes, but not "natural".'

Homosexuality is common in many other mammals. Do sheep make a conscious decision to do something 'not natural' to them? Maybe the rams just haven't met the right ewes or vice versa? Maybe they need to find god?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

It is interesting that this issue spaks such furvor among the JT readers, most of whom are non-Japanese. That seems to be a reflection of Western culture, and is quite different from Japanese culture. The Shibuya partnership action came out of nowhere. There were no demonstrations for gay marriage. Can't really figure it out. Maybe it was a PR stunt. Even so, I'm embarrassed that Shinjuku was not first....

-10 ( +2 / -12 )

If this was a traditional white wedding i wonder of they had a best man?

2 ( +3 / -1 )

There should be absolutely no problem for their children in their shared home but outside they may encounter difficulties. Difficulties that should not exist but nevertheless may: I am told not to see my children going to school because they get bullied by some of the other kids for having a foreign father. Not sure how these same kind of children will react to a schoolmate with two mums or two dads. Be ready for that, otherwise have a happy life and bring up lots of great children.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Iam glad to see that Japan is slowly being dragged into the 21 century.

Marriage of 2 lesbs proofs you that you are im 21 century??? Wahahaha

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

SmithinJapan,

Couldn't agree with you more. Hopefully they DO make it legal everywhere in the near future. It's high-time they do.

Absolutely!

0 ( +3 / -3 )

But you are showing that some people are lacking in common sense.

And as for gay marriage being "common sense", we shall agree to disagree. In fact I argue the opposite - the push to legalise everything shows a lack of common sense

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

'While I agree that homosexuality has been around since the beginning, I disagree that it's (the act anyway) "natural". Commonplace yes, accepted by many yes, but not "natural".'

Homosexuality is common among many species ( an old homophobic argument that it is limited to humans making an 'unnatural' choice has been conclusively shot down ). It seems perfectly natural. As you said, it's been around since the beginning.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Very cute couple! Congrats! Was expecting some gym teacher looking ,bowl cut wearing ,thick boned pear shape lesbians but was surprised they are both pretty cute! Would like to see pics of their "Honeymoon" !

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

But I'm surprised their agencies let them go ahead.

You don't know...maybe their agencies were behind this for the publicity.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Very cute couple.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Every gay couple has the right to marry but for any kid with gay parents, is it the same as having heterosexual parents? With all the hate and division in the world due to differences in race, culture, colour, religion, physical differences, adding another factor of "you are different" is a tremendous handicap on any child especially when kids are often very cruel. Reality versus idealism.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

adding another factor of "you are different" is a tremendous handicap on any child especially when kids are often very cruel.

Exactly

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

@divine intervention

So we should give in to prejudice and hate?

My kids are "different" in Japan because they're "half". You're saying it would have been better for them not to have been born??

4 ( +6 / -2 )

I can't wait for the day when gay marriage no makes the news, because that'll be the day when gay marriage is so widely accepted that it'll be seen as normal.

2 ( +5 / -4 )

No longer*

3 ( +3 / -0 )

katsu78Apr. 20, 2015 - 09:21AM JST Frungy, that implies that there is some kind of objective reality to what a wedding consists of. It's not a fantasy if the brides decide that someone else's "only virgins wear white" rule isn't something they don't want to follow, nor is it a fantasy if two women decide that they are married despite some grognards on the internet insisting that they can't be. A wedding is a cultural construct that exists between the people who participate in it. It is real so long as the people who participate in it decide it is real. It doesn't matter what "rules" people who aren't participants in the wedding believe in.

Oh for goodness sakes calm down. While frothing at the mouth you missed the point I was making, which is that ALL weddings are purely "symbolic".

Sluts in white dresses, that a ceremony is more important than all the couple's time together before that, and a hundred other fantasies that drive the wedding industry and make people spend thousands when actually all that matters is the couple's commitment to each other.

So stop frothing and try engaging your brain.

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

@luca brasi Put it this way, it's cruel for parents not to maximize the prevention of bigotry towards their children at the expense of their own well being or especially for the sole purpose of making a subjective socially moral point.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

@luca brasi Put it this way, it's cruel for parents not to maximize the prevention of bigotry towards their children at the expense of their own well being or especially for the sole purpose of making a subjective socially moral point.

Then I suppose we should tell black people in the US to stop procreating. You know, making that moral point that people should be able to have children.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

FrungyAPR. 20, 2015 - 07:48PM JST Oh for goodness sakes calm down. While frothing at the mouth you missed the point I was making, which is that ALL weddings are purely "symbolic".

"Symbolic" isn't the word you used. The word you used was "fantasy". You explicitly contrasted weddings with "reality", creating the implication that this wedding is not. I would agree that weddings are symbolic, like all rituals. That doesn't make them fantasy. If the distinction seems nit-picky to you, please keep in mind that in a great many countries around the world (including here in Japan and in this very thread) where LGBT weddings are not accepted as real.

Oh, side-note: pretending someone needs to calm down just because they've criticized something you said is not generally the behavior of someone sincerely interested in honest conversation. I hope it doesn't continue.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

So it's not just conservative Christians against gay marriage. Merely an observation. ..

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

Don't wanna piss on anyone's strawberrys here...but can they BOTH be brides? Congrats anyway....

My BFF (a guy) got married a couple of yeas ago, they both dressed in tuxedos...

To make it more real one lady should dress like a guy....

WHY? IT doesn't make it less real if both wear dresses or tuxedos isn't it?

Again, the link I posted shows otherwise. Statistical evidence shows that kids benefit from having a clear cut father and mother figure in their lives whether or not their parents divorce.

That doesn't mean that gay parents have to take each role, either they both are dads or both are moms, their kids really do have a clear cut father or mother figure.

They make a beautiful couple, I just hope in the future Japan catches up with the rest of the world and makes laws that protect legally their union.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

'Put it this way, it's cruel for parents not to maximize the prevention of bigotry towards their children at the expense of their own well being or especially for the sole purpose of making a subjective socially moral point.'

Hmm. Very suspicious reasoning. It's not me that has anything against it but the children might...Are you telling us the whole truth here?

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Good for them, hope they can be happy, while the theme of having children is a little hard, while both of them can have them, so there could not be much problem to build a family.

In this case of the homosexual marriage, the hardest point is for the men, they can not have children the natural way, so they can declare they are a marriage to adopt child, so this is where goverment say no-no... but slowly they are winning that right... while the children have the liberty to choose who to love, I think there should not be problem about it...

0 ( +2 / -2 )

But they wouldn't marry you.

Even if they were straight.

LOL that's cold. True... but cold. :-)

We've been getting the same illogical thinking in the States. "Marriage can only mean between two sexes." Yeah. Because in English the meaning of words has NEVER changed in the history of the language, right? /sarcasm

I'm not part of the LGBT community and I'm staunchly hetero, but all this folderol over people not being able to marry because other people say they can't is pure B.S. If you want to marry, you should be able to marry. Period.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Congratulations and best of luck to them.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

sensei258: "While I agree that homosexuality has been around since the beginning, I disagree that it's (the act anyway) "natural". Commonplace yes, accepted by many yes, but not "natural"."

What's unnatural about it, given that it's biological? The only CHOICE involved is whether or not to deny people the same rights others enjoy.

Congrats to these women, and again, here's hoping it's made legal soon. The more the merrier!

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

katsu78Apr. 20, 2015 - 08:41PM JST "Symbolic" isn't the word you used. The word you used was "fantasy". You explicitly contrasted weddings with "reality", creating the implication that this wedding is not. I would agree that weddings are symbolic, like all rituals. That doesn't make them fantasy. If the distinction seems nit-picky to you, please keep in mind that in a great many countries around the world (including here in Japan and in this very thread) where LGBT weddings are not accepted as real.

Oh you're so full of it. Go back and read what I wrote. I was talking about "almost all" weddings, and I stated that VERY clearly. I was not criticising LGBT weddings, in fact talking about "almost all" weddings regardless of sexual orientation.

So you're not being "nit-picky", you're just plain flying off the handle and going out of your way to be offended regardless of what I actually typed.

Oh, side-note: pretending someone needs to calm down just because they've criticized something you said is not generally the behavior of someone sincerely interested in honest conversation. I hope it doesn't continue.

Pretending? I'm not pretending dear, you seriously need to calm down and actually READ what was written before flying off the handle. You imagined an attack on the LGBT community where it was CLEARLY a comment on marriage in general. The hint would be in the words "almost all", not "almost all ".

And don't go on about honest conversations. Someone who dishonestly misrepresents someone's comment on "almost all" weddings (regardless of sexual orientation) as an attack on the LGBT community shouldn't even open their mouth about honesty.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Hope soon their marriage will be recongised.

Love is the most beautiful and natural thing, we should all cherish and protect it.

I say I DO to gay marriage

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Congratulations to the beautiful couple, they look very happy. I hope they can make their marriage legal. In fact, I'm sure they will.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

I'm very happy for this couple and I hope to see more same sex marriages in Japan in the future.

and...

To gokai_wo_maneku,

How can you say that Japan doesn't act obsessive about sex, have you never read a Japanese manga or anime? Not all, but many and I mean MANY of them are quite obsessive about sex. You're country has "love hotels". You have more recipes for "vigor and vitality during sex" than any other country. You might not talk about it but Japan IS obsessive about sex.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

"So it's not just conservative Christians against gay marriage"

Of course not. Every country has been against it, until recently. And the countries that allowed it first were countries with a Christian history. Ironically, it's the people from "traditionally" Christian countries who have only accepted gay marriage in the last few years who are going around the world telling the non-Christian countries that their position of the last couple of thousand years is absurd.

As for homosexuality in animals, there is certainly homosexual activity at times, but I've never heard of animals rejecting sexual activity with their own sex in favor of a whole life of homosexual behavior. If there is, let me know, but so far I haven't heard of it.

But, animals also pack rape, and have incest too, so I don't think it makes any sense to talk about what is natural from observing animals.

That said, they look like a really happy couple.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

but I've never heard of animals rejecting sexual activity with their own sex in favor of a whole life of homosexual behavior. If there is, let me know, but so far I haven't heard of it.

I'm kind of surprised you haven't heard of it as they are exactly the same thing.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

As for homosexuality in animals, there is certainly homosexual activity at times, but I've never heard of animals rejecting sexual activity with their own sex in favor of a whole life of homosexual behavior. If there is, let me know, but so far I haven't heard of it.

Homosexuality in animals exists: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals

2 ( +5 / -3 )

I think that in Japan, lesbians are more widely acceptable than homosexuals. Reason is that men like to see women on women action especially if they are hot looking and not the buzz haircut dikes on bikes types.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Christopher Glen

How are these for size? Balanced enough for you?

Freedom of conscience?

What, are you arguing for the rights of bigots to discriminate against people they don't like? Is this 1950? What a retrograde attitude. I suppose you are fine with anti-miscegenation laws and people being allowed to refuse service due to race or ethnicity, too?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

The hint would be in the words "almost all", not "almost all ".

Maybe I am the only one, but I do not get your 'hint'. The words in both quotes are the same.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Homosexuality in animals exists: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexualbehaviorin_animals

Fixed link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals

It would be nice if this site had a proper URL parser.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

So it's not just conservative Christians against gay marriage. Merely an observation. ..

It doesn't have to be. This is an issue of conscience

What, are you arguing for the rights of bigots to discriminate against people they don't like?

Nope, and if you look at my earlier post you'll see that I don't think homosexuality should be made illegal (Alan Turing was treated in an appalling fashion) Having reservations about the well-being of kids raised by gay couples does not make one a bigot. Still it's the kind of knee-jerk reaction one gets these days

But, animals also pack rape, and have incest too, so I don't think it makes any sense to talk about what is natural from observing animals.

Exactly. If animals are to be used as a role model, (heaven forbid) people will be talking about the legalisation of incest next. Unthinkable to many, certainly - but gay marriage was equally unthinkable 20-30 years ago

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

gay marriage was equally unthinkable 20-30 years ago.

To bigots, yes.

People are not saying animals should be role models, people are stating that homosexuality exists throughout the animal kingdom.

Bigots like to move the goalposts, and then when those arguments are shot down, they move them again.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Exactly. If animals are to be used as a role model,

I don't believe anyone is advocating that animals should be used a role models. I believe the comments about homosexuality occuring in the wild is in answer to those suggesting it is unnatural.

Unthinkable to many, certainly - but gay marriage was equally unthinkable 20-30 years ago

It was not that long ago that to many mixed race marriage was also unthinkable. Thankfully, those that thought that way were proven incorrect.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

@Carolee Thuma, I did no say that Japanese don't care about sex, I only said that we don't make such a public spectable about it. It is not every other ecene on TV or long conversations over beer. Manga are read in private. Sex is private. That is why there are love hotels, so you can get away in private.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

It might be a little difficult for that couple to have kids......

0 ( +4 / -4 )

I can only wish the couple the happiness life together.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Children should have male and female role models. For gay couples hopefully they have a caring Aunt or Uncle to show both sides of life. To listen, learn and have an open mind is most important.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Manga are read in private.

It seems like you have not had a chance to ride on a train or a subway car in Japan.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

I meant the happiest life together. So let me say it again. May your marriage bring you joy upon joy.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Children should have male and female role models.

Exactly.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

I hope they can legalise their relationship one day. If two consenting adults want to marry why does anyone else have the right to object. Children can have male and female role models and have same sex parents, different sex parents, a single parent, no parents........ Parents are not the only role models.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

A male role model= the butch-like one on the left.

Female role model= the semi-pretty gal on the right.

Lol, the kids might be okay now?

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

So sad to see so many homophobic and ignorant remarks here about their love or their ability to raise children succesfully.

Sexual orientation or gender identity doesn't make a person any less of a human being or loving parent.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

The two girls in question were talking on the news this morning about how they want to have children. And it's entirely natural - homosexuality has been around as long as humans have. Society has been holding them down though - going 'against the natural'. It's only as we become enlightened as a species that we are starting to see our oppression for what it is.

Yeah, homosexuality has been around forever, but artificial insemination hasn't. I know I'm going against the herd mentality that reigns supreme here. And I'm not against gays or gay marriage. But if you're gay then be gay. Realize that evolution has decided that for homosapiens to have offspring, a man and a woman must have sexual intercourse. So if you're gay, are you going to "take a walk on the wild side" just for the sake of having children--which theoretically those pangs should be nonexistent if one is born gay? Or do you rely on modern science and take a walk to the sperm bank? Like I said, I'm not against gays or gay marriage, I just don't think with the herd mentality. And please stop using black people as an argument aid in your argument. As a black person, it pisses me off.

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

So if you're gay, are you going to "take a walk on the wild side" just for the sake of having children--which theoretically those pangs should be nonexistent if one is born gay?

I'm not sure where you pulled that theory from, but it's pretty clear that it's incorrect by virtue of the fact that many gay couples want children.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

I'm not sure where you pulled that theory from, but it's pretty clear that it's incorrect by virtue of the fact that many gay couples want children.

Exactly....

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

So sad to see so many homophobic and ignorant remarks here about their love or their ability to raise children succesfully.

So sad to see so many knee jerk reactions here. The issue at hand is children being raised by a father and mother figure. Granted, there are many dysfunctional couples out there, but it's still hugely important to have a mother and father raising kids

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

is it really that important? There are plenty of well adjusted people from dysfunctional households, just as how there are plenty of crazy freaks from what you would refer to as "normal" households.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

I agree with Tokiyo. There are a lot of crazy straight people. In fact, most crazy people are straight.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

So sad to see so many knee jerk reactions here.

Fighting discrimination is not a knee jerk reaction.

The issue at hand is children being raised by a father and mother figure. Granted, there are many dysfunctional couples out there, but it's still hugely important to have a mother and father raising kids

And as there is no guarantee that children of heterosexuals will end up being raised by both their mother and father, it cannot be used as justification in denying the right to marry to homosexuals. Particularly since it's been shown that these children usually end up well rounded, often more so than children of heterosexuals.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

And as there is no guarantee that children of heterosexuals will end up being raised by both their mother and father, it cannot be used as justification in denying the right to marry to homosexuals

I think it'd be better to ask kids whether they'd prefer to be raised by two men or two women. We shall agree to disagree. Oh and while I'm at it https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/quartet-of-truth-adult-children-of-gay-parents-testify-against-same-sex-mar http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2015/04/case-against-gay-marriage

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

The issue at hand is children being raised by a father and mother figure.

No, the issue at hand is and should be children being raised in a happy, healthy and safe environment.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

I think it'd be better to ask kids whether they'd prefer to be raised by two men or two women.

Then what would they need parents for? If it were up to kids, it would be no parents!

2 ( +4 / -2 )

A couple of my very good friends are going through this right now. They are not legally allowed to marry each other, but they do want to have kids. Both girls are sensitive, creative, open minded intelligent women - the kind of people that will make absolutely outstanding parents. But they face huge hurdles. One is going to have to quit her (very good) job and relocate to a working environment that she believes will be more supportive of her choices. And that's just the start.

Strangerland

Particularly since it's been shown that these children usually end up well rounded, often more so than children of heterosexuals.

Can you provide a link for this please?

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Pope Francis: If men and women aren't different, we have problems Pope: Erasing Gender Differences Is the Problem, Not Solution

"The earth is filled with harmony and trust when the covenant between man and woman is lived well. "

http://www.newsmax.com/US/Pope-Frances-gender-difference-problems-solutions/2015/04/16/id/639022/#ixzz3Y4uHS2PH

My take is to allow all shared relationships the benefits of marriage. Why? Because it is discrimination when a guy and a girl can receive these benefits even if they do not want children. We have brothers and sisters living in a platonic relationship who could benefit from such. Many other platonic relationships exist as well where people are taking care of each other and sharing a life.

Leave people's private lives private.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Particularly since it's been shown that these children usually end up well rounded, often more so than children of heterosexuals.

Can you provide a link for this please?

I can provide a bunch: https://www.google.com/#q=children+of+gay+parents+well+rounded

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

For all those against same sex marriage, easy solution ... don't marry a gay person!

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Homosexuality is natural - look at animal species. It is HUMAN rules that have kept it down and made it "against nature".

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Its's crazy to think a country like japan is letting same-sex marriage. I never thought that day would come. GOOD FOR THEM

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Probably soon to be featured in an AV.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I can provide a bunch

So can I. How about that? http://factsaboutyouth.com/posts/are-children-with-same-sex-parents-at-a-disadvantage/ http://www.abc.net.au/religion/articles/2011/05/20/3222067.htm http://matthiasmedia.com/briefing/2012/06/same-sex-parenting-no-differences/

For all those against same sex marriage, easy solution ... don't marry a gay person!

There's the issue of getting married..........and the issue of kids raised by those parents not having a clear cut mother or father

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

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