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Man revives woman with AED, but branded 'pervert' for removing her clothes to apply electrode pads

113 Comments
By Fran Wrigley

A man in Japan says he was questioned by police and branded a “pervert” after providing emergency medical assistance to a woman. The man was attending to the woman who had been involved in a traffic accident when he believes someone who saw him cutting through the woman’s clothes to apply a defibrillator to her bare chest called the police and reported him for behaving inappropriately.

An Automated External Defibrillator (AED) analyses the rhythm of the heart and, if necessary, delivers an electrical shock to help it return to normal. AEDs are provided in public places and are designed to be operated by members of the public, even those with no medical background. The man is now calling for better understanding of the correct use of AEDs.

In a series of posts on Twitter earlier this month, the unnamed Japanese man described the incident. He happened upon the scene of a traffic accident in which the driver was not seriously injured, but a female passenger was unconscious and he could not detect a pulse. The man began to administer artificial respiration and CPR to the woman, and contacted the emergency services. After an AED was procured from a nearby convenience store, the man began to cut through the woman’s clothes in order to administer it.

An AED, which applies an electric shock to a patient suffering cardiac arrest, requires direct contact between the pads and the skin. Any clothing which is in the way must be removed.

However, when the man started to use the scissors, which were included in the AED’s box, to cut through the woman’s clothes, the driver of the vehicle told him to stop, asking what he was doing and calling him “hentai” (pervert). At this time, he believes, the driver of the car contacted the police to report him as a “chikan” (sexual molester).

After the injured parties had been taken to hospital, the man who had administered the AED gave his account of the incident to police. He was then handed over to a separate police authority, who questioned him about the report they had received that he was acting inappropriately at the scene of the accident. Once the man explained that he had been cutting through the woman’s clothes in order to use the AED, he was not questioned any further.

The man was later informed that – thanks to his bravery and quick-thinking, not to mention correct use of the AED – the woman had survived. He also reported that he was offered a certificate of appreciation, which he declined. The Twitter user ends his story with this comment:

皆さん、AEDは肌に密着させるものです。強い電気が流れるのでブラジャーのワイヤーも大変危険です。知っててください。 “An AED is supposed to be applied directly to the skin. Because the electric current it produces is strong, the underwire of a bra could prove extremely dangerous [if not removed before using]. Please remember this.”

In Japan, as in other countries, AEDs are provided in public spaces such as shopping centres, schools and sports facilities. They are designed to be operated by members of the public who may not have received training, and their use is covered in first aid courses.

Time is of the essence in the event of a sudden cardiac arrest: after only three to five minutes, the patient can start to suffer irreversible brain damage. The Red Cross states that for each minute defibrillation is delayed, the chance of survival drops by 10 percent. Increased public awareness about where to find AEDs and how to use them, as well as increased provision of the devices, are therefore vital to reducing deaths from cardiac arrest.

It seems like this incident had a happy ending, but it seems that if the person who called the police – or indeed the police officers themselves – had known that it was necessary to remove clothing to use an AED, they wouldn’t have had to waste time interviewing someone who was acting entirely appropriately.

Sources: Huffington Post Japan, News Matomemorii, Twitter, Red Cross, AED Life, Japan Heart Foundation

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113 Comments
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Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

31 ( +32 / -2 )

WOW, just WOW. What an idiot that driver is. The public in Japan really needs to understand how to use AEDs. Hat's off to the man who stopped to give assistance.

33 ( +36 / -3 )

I knew a firefighter who in 1975 committed suicide over a similar case. He rescued a child (girl) from a burning home, and accidently grabbed her between her legs to help stabilize both of them with his cable broke.

He was a hero! He didn't deserve what he got.

20 ( +20 / -0 )

The driver who reported who reported him was probably judging him by his own standards. Just as well the ladies rescuer knew what to do, most people probably wouldn't.

11 ( +11 / -0 )

This is a prime example of the challenges people face in many societies when trying to do right for others is misinterpreted either purposely or accidently due to ignorance.

17 ( +18 / -2 )

The driver is ignorant . Can't believe he alerted the cops for something he have not seen or known.

10 ( +12 / -2 )

ignorant fool...The driver needs to apologize to the person who saved that woman's life....idiot!

20 ( +24 / -3 )

The challenge is to train as many people as possible in the operation of this user friendly medical marvel.

9 ( +9 / -0 )

Interesting that the driver's main reaction at that time was not panic or "please save her life," but a totally irrational response of accusation and calling the authorities. Very interesting set of priorities in that person's mind.

18 ( +20 / -2 )

I lost my mom last April she went into cardiac arrest. I was not there at the time. When I arrived they had a group of police officers in my parents room and they had removed my mother's top. They were able to revive her enough to give us time to tell her goodbye and that we love you. They were giving her CPR. It shocked me to see my mom on the floor and receiving deep chest compressions. Those police officers were heroes that day.

23 ( +23 / -0 )

Guess the answer is to let them die if they aren't an obaa-san or male. SMH at these people.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

No good deed goes unpunished. I am sure this will happen again. There are so many fools out there.

10 ( +11 / -1 )

Severe lack of education in understanding.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

There was a car accident, a woman with no pulse, and a guy trying to revive her with CPR, who has the presence of mind to additionally call for an AED an properly use it. All the driver can come up with is to accuse this hero of being a pervert. No concern about saving the apparently near death passenger? What a waste of space this driver is. He/she needs counseling.

9 ( +9 / -0 )

I saw this administered in an episode of "Aldnaoh.Zero". The hero Inaho properly use one, as well performing CPR to save the Martian Princess Asseylum's life after she almost throttled to death by a jealous Martian girl named Rayet!

-8 ( +4 / -12 )

No good deed goes ubpunished, the old saying goes. This is just the sort of incident that will convince people not to be involved when they should be involved.

9 ( +9 / -0 )

You see a guy cutting an unconscious woman's top off and an open AED pack next to him and all you think is chikan!?? Japan is starting to worry me. I sure hope that guy is reading the hero's Twitter and this article and comments.

12 ( +14 / -2 )

This is what the world has come to?

I'm pretty sure that the woman whose life he saved doesn't much care that he saw her breasts. And if he's the kind of guy that has the balls to act and save someone's life, I'm also sure he wasn't paying attention to them. I'm also pretty sure I know who the real pervert in that little scenario was. nor did the real pervert make any move to save the woman's life.

11 ( +11 / -0 )

The man was later informed that – thanks to his bravery and quick-thinking, not to mention correct use of the AED – the woman had survived. He also reported that he was offered a certificate of appreciation, which he declined.

Good on him for two reasons. First, he is a hero for acting quickly and decisively to save the woman's life. Second, he snubbed his nose at the folks who wanted to offer him a "certificate of appreciation", since they were the same folks who questioned him about being a pervert and simply wanted to save face.

15 ( +15 / -1 )

Interesting read to pass on to my emergencyfirstresponse.com students in future classes.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

How unbelievable! The person who called the police really ought to issue a public apology to this man and help him campaign for awareness. I've seen these devices all over the place and not once did it cross my mind that in the event of having to use one someone might call you out for being a pervert. It's bad enough that so many people here turn the other way with the mentality of "someone else will help them" and having someone's reputation tarnished for something like this is not going to help the issue at all.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

I once saw something bizarre at an athetic meet. A young male runner was about to faint when crossing the finish line. The runner was about to hit the ground and this fat hairy guy grabs him still standing up and starts kissing him in the mouth. He was sort of French kissing the runner. The red cross interferred and the fat guy alleged he was trying to revive the runner (standing up?) by giving him "mouth to mouth"....After recovering, the young runner looked grosssed out and keep wiping his mouth.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

The sad thing is, just as some Japanese drive on after a hit-and-run in fear of legal repercussions, this incident may well scare off many people from using a defibrilator. They will just walk on when seeing an unconscious female. The guy is a hero and should be applauded.

10 ( +10 / -0 )

in the heat of the moment and potentially in shock one might be shocked to see a wife or daughter being disrobed, but clearly more education is needed.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

I can see the driver being hesitant about the whole thing, but I think the call to police was overreacting. I'm glad in this case there was a happy ending, and good on the man who used the AED for saving the woman's life, and I hope he is not too hurt by the actions of the driver to hesitate to do this kind of thing again if need be.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

This kinda reminds me of the situations you hear about in China where people involved in accidents are simply ignored by passers-by. There have been many cases where they try to help the victim, but for some reason (eg the victim's relatives want money) they get into trouble and are accused of either making things worse or even causing the accident. There was uproar when most people ignored a child who was run over by a car. People in general are scared of getting involved and they don't want to make things worse.

But as Mirai says, I hope the driver does apologize to this brave man. If it weren't for him, the driver could have been attending a funeral.

Garthgoyle:

You see a guy cutting an unconscious woman's top off and an open AED pack next to him and all you think is chikan!??

You'd think?!

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Hang on a second here.

The motorist saw what was a potentially suspicious situation. An unconscious woman was having her clothes removed. The person providing assistance wasn't wearing a uniform, and the AED kits are pretty small and it may not have been visible.

The motorist stepped over the line calling the guy a pervert, but did the right thing by calling the cops to alert them to a potentially suspicious situation.

The cops then correctly asked a few questions, got a satisfactory answer and dropped the matter.

Yes, the motorist was ignorant, but most people are about medical matters.

There's a principle here, the simple issue of whether passers-by should call the cops if they see something that looks suspicious. If we say that anyone who is ignorant shouldn't do that then you're effectively discouraging everyone who isn't sure from calling the cops.

While the motorist was a bit of a jerk he was also being a responsible citizen in calling the cops. Not everything is black and white.

P.S. Good on the guy who saved the woman's life. He didn't deserve to be called a pervert, but that's life when dealing with the largely ignorant general public.

-24 ( +8 / -32 )

Stupid driver, he would have let her die, this guy is a hero

9 ( +11 / -2 )

Frungy: know the basics of first aid!

As for the driver of the car, I'll volunteer to give him a big slap on his face maybe that will wake him up from the sleepy world of stupidity.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

is it worth the trouble to save a life? in the US, if you did the CPR and the patient died, you could very well end up being sued by the family for negligence. not worth the trouble imo.

-17 ( +0 / -17 )

Isn't this much ado about nothing here? Yes, the person who reported him is an idiot, but otherwise nothing happened to the guy.

1) some idiot made an ignorant police report 2) police investigated that report 3) nothing happened to the subject of that report, rightfully so.

Of course there needs to be more/better information about the use of AEDs so people understand how to use them properly.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

I have full training in the useof that machine, but no way would use it in America except to a family member.

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

noypikantokuOct. 23, 2014 - 10:06AM JST Frungy: know the basics of first aid!

I do. In fact I'm a medical professional. This is why I understand just how little most people know about medicine in general and how ignorance abounds on a very, very wide range of topics.

As for the driver of the car, I'll volunteer to give him a big slap on his face maybe that will wake him up from the sleepy world of stupidity.

There is a difference between ignorance and stupidity. The driver was ignorant, but not necessarily stupid. This is a distinction that most people here do not seem to be making.

In a perfect world everyone would receive training in at least the basics of first aid, but in reality that simply isn't an achievable goal.

Given that reality I'd rather have people phoning the police and making an ignorant complaint that the police investigate and dismiss than a world where an ill-informed citizen feels that they cannot inform the police about their suspicions because they fear the sort of backlash we're seeing here.

-4 ( +12 / -16 )

frungy: I do. In fact I'm a medical professional.

that's a shame then, why would you care more about breast exposures than saving someone else's life on a very crucial moment? If I got rushed in ER and nurses cut my underwear, do you suggest that I do the same thing and call the police to arrest these nurses? People don't need to be a medical profession to realize this, it's just common sense.

If the driver doesn't know, he could've just asked why is that appropriate? That is the problem with most Stupid people, they get carried away by their emotions first before just simply "asking" questions!

6 ( +10 / -4 )

Frungy, it was not any motorist who complained. It was the driver - the person who caused the woman to need emergency medical care in the first place. First he nearly kills her, then he complains about a person who saves her life. I hope the police are questioning him as well.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

This man is a hero! Good job and quick thinking. I hope that someone like that is around if I ever get into trouble.

Yes, it's unfair that the driver called him a pervert, but she was probably just trying to defend her friend. (From what I gathered, the unconscious woman was a passenger in the driver's car). Obviously she was scared and didn't know how the AED worked, but she was lucky that she survived. I just hope she apologized and thanked the man.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

commanteer: well said!

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Probably the driver was drunk or if not, an elderly driver and he wanted to deflect the attention from his deeds to someone else.

Good on this guy having the wits about him to do the right thing the right way. Does Japan have similar "protection laws" for Good Samaritans in the event their actions to save someone may cause more harm or they can't be sued for trying to help?

1 ( +2 / -1 )

All of you bashing the driver are WAAAAY too quick to judge. The female was a passenger in his car, so likely she was his girlfriend, sister, whatever. If you see someone cutting through your girlfriend's top, wouldn't you be just a bit like, "Wait a second!" There was certainly no time for the Samaritan to explain to the driver what he was doing. The driver in that situation did the right thing - called the police (rather than beat the Samaritan to a pulp). A simple case of a misunderstanding where the media blows it out of proportion in order to get simpletons to make quick judgments. Yes, the driver should apologize to the Samaritan, and even take him out for a steak dinner. And all of you bashing the driver, well hang your head in shame, and apologize to the driver (because we all know this driver reads this website).

-11 ( +3 / -14 )

It's galling that a person trying to help another human being is called a pervert. The tax driver is the living definition of an a__hole.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Sigh. Like they say, no good deed goes unpunished...

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Reminds me of that scene from "The Man with Two Brains":

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3r4rS0yzQ1M

1 ( +1 / -0 )

the driver of the vehicle told him to stop, asking what he was doing and calling him “hentai” (pervert). At this time, he believes, the driver of the car contacted the police to report him as a “chikan” (sexual molester).

comanteer -- spot on. Frungy, it was not a "motorist" who called the cops, it was the driver of the vehicle involved in the accident. And maybe he should have been more concerned about the woman's well-being, than calling the hero names. Me wonders if alchohol was involved.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

ribstick: So she is lying there unconscious after an accident and the first thing you think is "this person is trying to feel up my unconscious female companion in public." Dunno what weird fetish that constitutes...

9 ( +10 / -1 )

This'll be all the rage at kabukicho rubdowneries by the end of the week.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

fds- in the US, if you did the CPR and the patient died, you could very well end up being sued by the family for negligence. not worth the trouble imo.

Totally and factually incorrect. In most states, there are "Good Samaritan" laws that specifically absolve someone of civil and criminal wrongdoing for injuries and property damage done while attempting to assist others.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

@noypikantoku. You have in your posts referred to the (stupid) driver as "him" three times. Do you have any information that is not included in the article? I can't find in the article where the driver was indentified in either sex or age.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Severe lack of education in understanding. aka common sense, all too abcent in Japan

0 ( +4 / -4 )

my wife and i where in a car accident about 10yrs ago, she had suspected broken ribs. (I had a cracked knee cap) during the Ambulance ride to the hospital the medic had to cut my wifes bra/shirt off so as to not move her. I didnt for one minute mind them seeing her breasts and any moron who would think that in an emergency is just that a MORON

8 ( +9 / -1 )

I want to give that driver a good hard smack in the face. What the Hell's wrong with him? Ok, I get that being in a car accident can shake you up and mess with your sense of judgement, but it was pretty obvious what the passer-by was trying to do, ie save the woman's life. And what exactly was the driver doing the whole time anyway? Other than calling a hero a pervert and a molester I mean. I'm guessing it was probably his fault that the crash happened in the first place, then instead of attending to his passenger as any responsible driver would, he just sits there and does nothing. It's because of idiots like him that members of the public are sometimes afraid to offer assistance in emergency situations. His actions are inexcusable, while the passer-by saved the woman's life. We need more people like this passer-by, and less people like the idiotic driver in the world.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Tokiyo, the driver could have been in a daze, not thinking straight, etc. And all of this so far is one side of the story - the Samaritan's. I'm sure the driver has his own version but chooses not to share it with the world on Twitter.

So I pose this to you...If you see your significant other unconscious, kind of confused as to what to do, and then you see some dude cutting the girl's shirt open, you're initial reaction would be what?

Time for you to buy me a steak dinner for educating you on how not to pass judgment too quickly or before hearing from both sides.

-10 ( +3 / -13 )

So he wasn't branded a pervert at all. A car driver misunderstood the situation but had the nerve to face him. Once it was understood that he had saved someone's life, he was thanked for his efforts and offered a certificate of appreciation.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Although I understand what Fungy is implying (that it COULD have been a "crime scene") the time of day - or night - is not mentioned but surely an "accident scene" should be evident ? Was there nobody else at the scene ? Surely there were other passers-by ? It does mention :

the driver was not seriously injured, but a female passenger was unconscious and he could not detect a pulse.

so it wasn't a "hit-and-run" and apparently, she wasn't completely "alone" with her rescuer ?

Anyway, great guy to have saved her life !

1 ( +1 / -0 )

wtfjapan - In your situation, the paramedic was wearing a uniform. The Samaritan in this case was wearing what? He could have been sporting a beard and combat fatigues. See the difference?

And to say "severe lack of education"...speaking of education, learn to spell "absent" correctly. Secondly, to suggest that "common sense" would prevail in a situation where a lot is happening and it's hard to think straight shows your lack of education or common sense.

-10 ( +1 / -11 )

fds, is it worth the trouble to save a life? in the US, if you did the CPR and the patient died, you could very well end up being sued by the family for negligence. not worth the trouble imo.

In the United States there is the Good Samaritan law that protects people from law suits when they act to help in the event of an emergency. So there would be no law suit.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

ribstick:

A: "Hey, what the hell" B: "She needs help, stand back"

I'm plenty educated, no need for the high horse schtick, thank you. After all, one mustn't judge other people in haste.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

A lot - and I mean a LOT - of people do not know how AEDs are used, unlike all the learned commentators here.

Really now. Apart from Frungy all the other comments here reflect how little people try to understand the situation and frame of mind others could be in. Calling the driver stupid, a moron? Saying he deserves a 'good hard smack in the face'? The kind of assumptions people make on so little information really boggles the mind.

I sometimes wonder - What would Japan be like if all the commentators here were the ones running Japan?

-6 ( +4 / -10 )

Typical Japanese good Samaritan. how dare he try and cop a feel.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

Apologies to ribstick and whoever I might have missed, who are aware that there are always TWO sides to any story. Or at least this story.

-7 ( +2 / -9 )

If it weren't for him, the driver could have been attending a funeral.

Not "could", "would".

My guess, and I'd like to point it is just that, is the driver was an old guy who wouldn't know an AED if it dropped on his head. Maybe one should have after he showed his ingratitude.

I attended a first-aid course back home. Don't recall being instructed to remove clothing, (rushed course) but it makes sense. Besides better conduction (?), is clothing flammable with the power put out by these things?

Severe lack of education in understanding. aka common sense, all too abcent in Japan

Well, the police understood the need to remove clothing and they're Japanese too. Might want to rethink your logic before your own remarks are said about you.

When I was young, I was helping a customer "break-into" his car because he left his keys inside. (Actually no breakage required, details will remain non-public though).

Anyway, despite my wearing a store uniform, and being "broad daylight", some guy threatened to call the police. We explained and he went on his way. Could hear the cogs grinding inside his head though, trying to accommodate this unheard of scenario somewhere within his imagination-challenged intellect.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

There is the right way and the Japanese way.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

It's certainly "right" to remove any clothing. Even a hairy chest can affect the AED's performance, though it'd be a very lucky person who was attended by someone who just happened to have a razor in their pocket.

Maybe they should include a razor inside the AED case....

1 ( +2 / -1 )

The driver was ignorant, but not necessarily stupid.

No. The driver was stupid. He should have stopped his vehicle, gotten out and ask what was going on. He then would have not only seen the situation for what it was, he could have also assisted or called for additional help. Instead, he just gets on his phone and immediately called the police. Stupid and potentially dangerous.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

The driver was just in an accident. (S)he may very well not have been in his/her right mind. I've been in an accident where I got a nasty whack on the head, and when I started to come to, there were people running around, but I wasn't entirely clear on what was happening. If I saw someone ripping open the shirt of someone I knew, I may have reacted in a similar manner.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

The driver was just in an accident. (S)he may very well not have been in his/her right mind. I've been in an accident where I got a nasty whack on the head, and when I started to come to, there were people running around, but I wasn't entirely clear on what was happening. If I saw someone ripping open the shirt of someone I knew, I may have reacted in a similar manner.

Me too. But not most of the commentators here, who are waay too smart and level headed. Or so they think.

-8 ( +1 / -9 )

kikai - I posed a question, get called out for needing an education. I dunno, believe what you want.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Me too. But not most of the commentators here, who are waay too smart and level headed. Or so they think.

Well you have to understand that on JT, everything is always someones fault. Always.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Me too. But not most of the commentators here, who are waay too smart and level headed. Or so they think.

? So, you think calling the police before assessing the situation makes sense? One simple question and waiting for the answer could make all the difference. The police have better things to do with their time than go on wild goose chases.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

? So, you think calling the police before assessing the situation makes sense?

Have you not been reading our comments? We are talking about coming out of an accident with diminished mental capacity from having been whacked on the head. There isn't 'making sense' in that case, because the person isn't thinking properly.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Branded is too harsh of a word I think. Essentially, ONE guy said he was hentai, the police checked and cleared him. He wasn't charged, not required to register as a sex offender or anything.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Remove metal necklaces and underwire bras. The metal may conduct electricity and cause burns. You can cut the center of the bra and pull it away from the skin.

http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/health-topics/topics/aed/howtouse.html

3 ( +3 / -0 )

The good Samaritan behaved excellently, and it is regrettable that he had to deal with having his character questioned in such a manner.

However, I do not think the driver's reaction was so unfathomable. For someone who has just been in an accident, it is rare to be able to update one's "mental model" of the situation and get a handle on things very quickly. Many people do not even really realize they have been in an accident, do not grasp that someone is truly injured, or the situation just doesn't seem real to them. Likely the driver latched onto the most familiar interpretation of what s/he saw--a man removing an unconscious woman's top is usually pretty shady, and I for one would hope that anyone who saw that happening to me would not just stand by if they had the slightest doubt about what was going on--without truly processing what was going on. This can happen to someone even if they are relatively well-informed about medical matters. People have strange reactions to disaster; logic and emotional control are not usually high on the list.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Good thing I've got my first aid review coming up next year. After reading this I know that Japan really needs to grow up and give respect to those that actually have taken the time to assist keeping people alive during emergency situations. Many of the health care professionals there are most likely trained to save a persons life first instead of worrying about "embarrassment" or "perversion". I already knew it was bad there when almost all TV shows in Japan made CPR look like it was just a chance to kiss somebody on the lips. /facepalm

My own experiences with first aid required me to do the Heimlich 3 different times. Its not some pretty televised "doctor" show. Some folks will lose their bladder while trying to compress their diaphragm hard enough to expel whatever is in their airway. Never got to the point of having to do CPR or having to use and AED if available thank goodness. And to be honest those AEDs are supposed to be idiot proof :)

0 ( +2 / -2 )

The driver was trying to downplay the injury to the woman, which is the wrong thing to do in accidents since someone could be (and was) seriously hurt, and then tried to blame someone else to deflect guilt.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Have you not been reading our comments? We are talking about coming out of an accident with diminished mental capacity from having been whacked on the head.

You can talk about anything you want all you want. However, I do not see anything to indicate that the driver who called the police came out of the accident with diminshed mental capacity. I just see someone who seems to have overreacted.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

However, I do not see anything to indicate that the driver who called the police came out of the accident with diminshed mental capacity.

Yeah, it's not like he was just in a car accident that had someone else in the accident near death or something.

And we also have to remember that every story on JT contains every fact, every time, to the point that we don't even need to have trials anymore because all the data is already there in the news story.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

FrungyOct. 23, 2014 - 10:20AM JST

Frungy a few points; a) The AED has been on tv everywhere for years, since 2007. Everyone knows what it looks like. b) The regular AED isn't that tiny, especially when opened up (which it would be since he was using its scissors), it also makes lots of sounds explaining what to do.

Unless this guy actually ran somewhere to pick the unit up, or had one in his car, someone must have brought it there and people were generally aware of stuff going on. So in summary, this guy crashes with a girl, stumbles around the accident site in a daze (excusable, fairly common) and then blames the people who sorted out his mess)

The cops probably did their job, someone reported something and they looked into it.

JapanGalOct. 23, 2014 - 10:17AM JST

Samaritan laws cover AEDs as well in nearly all states now. Because anyone and their grandma can use them.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

perhaps the driver was upset because he intended for his passenger to die. calling someone a pervert might buy him the time to ensure she dies (or gets brain damage). kudos to the unfazed hero, though it must've looked pretty sketchy. i certainly wasn't aware that it was necessary to remove necklaces & underwire bras.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Moderator : Could we please be informed if the "driver" was the one involved in the accident ? Or was it the driver of a car just "passing by" ? Thank you.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

If the woman had witnessed him giving artificial respiration and CPR, in my opinion it was ridiculous for her to then question his behaviour once the AED had been procured. He clearly was a Good Samaritan and is owed an apology.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

"No good deed goes unpunished."

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Yeah, it's not like he was just in a car accident that had someone else in the accident near death or something.

From the article:

He happened upon the scene of a traffic accident in which the driver was not seriously injured , but a female passenger was unconscious and he could not detect a pulse.

There is nothing to indicate the driver was seriously injured. He had the where-with-all to call the man a pervert and called the police and talk with them. He jumped to a kind of ridiculous conclusion. His passenger was severely injured, he witnessed this as he was the driver. So, it was not like he did not know what had happened up to that point.

And we also have to remember that every story on JT contains every fact, every time, to the point that we don't even need to have trials anymore because all the data is already there in the news story.

We also do not need to make up data, either. Which is exactly what you are doing when you assume the driver was so seriously injured that he could not get out of the car and check on the factually severely injured passenger.

This is what we know:

The driver was in an accident that caused his passenger to be severely injured. The driver does not seem to have been severely injured. A bystander immediately started first aid. The driver did not attempt to help the injured passenger and instead called the police to report that could only be seen as trying to help in such a situation. Sorry. The driver's actions do not make sense in that situation. If you have any other actual facts to add, then let's discuss them. Until then, I'll stick with the facts we do know.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

There is nothing to indicate the driver was seriously injured. He had the where-with-all to call the man a pervert and called the police and talk with them.

When I was in my accident, I was also not seriously injured. I walked away from it, and didn't even go to the hospital. But for that first number of minutes after the accident, I wasn't of full mental capacity, and I wasn't clear on what was happening. It took me a few minutes to even realize I'd been in an accident, even though I could see the truck upside down on its roof with people running around it. I could have likely made a call to the police if I felt the need to - I've had 911 ingrained into me since I was a tiny child.

Which is exactly what you are doing when you assume the driver was so seriously injured that he could not get out of the car and check on the factually severely injured passenger.

No, I'm not making that assumption. I haven't said he was in a fugue, I only brought it up as a possibility, due to the driver being condemned by 95% of the posters in this thread. My point being that without the facts, we can't know if he was being an idiot, or if he was just confused as to what was going on, and therefore called the police in the belief that someone was being sexually assaulted. If it was the latter, then he should be commended, not condemned. But of course, we can't know which it is, as we don't have all the facts.

This is what we know:

The driver was in an accident that caused his passenger to be severely injured. The driver does not seem to have been severely injured. A bystander immediately started first aid. The driver did not attempt to help the injured passenger and instead called the police to report that could only be seen as trying to help in such a situation.

This is what we don't know:

Whether the driver had a concussion. Whether the driver was able to see the AED device. Whether the driver knew what an AED was. Whether the driver knew that when an AED device is used, clothing down to the bra should be removed.

Sorry. We cannot pass accurate judgement on the driver with this limited amount of information.

If you have any other actual facts to add, then let's discuss them. Until then, I'll stick with the fact that we don't have all the facts.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

The girls appreciates it. She owes him dinner.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

If it was an accident in which someone was seriously injured, wouldn't the police be on the scene anyway, talking to anyone who might have seen anything? I think that's standard practice.

I agree with Strangerland that we do not know what happened.

A few years ago I witnessed a traffic accident in which a car coming out of a side street hit a car on the main street in the side, sending it up in the air to land upside down. Luckily no one was seriously injured (two children in the flying car were fortunately well strapped into their child seats), though the mother of the children had a few scratches and ambulances were called.

The driver of the car who caused the accident had apparently been taking her aged mother, who had fallen ill at home, to hospital, and the strange thing was that despite the ambulances being on the scene almost immediately, she kept insisting that she had to be allowed to drive the old lady to hospital. Obviously the old lady was in better hands in the ambulance (not to mention, the front of the car was smashed in and undrivable), but the driver was in shock and not thinking straight. Traffic accidents do strange things to people's brains.

Good on the bloke who had his wits about him and did the AED. The lady he saved owes him big time.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

When I was in my accident, I was also not seriously injured.

Did you have a passenger? If you did, did you check on them? I understand being shaken up, but it would have to be pretty severe not to recognize a severely injured passenger from your own car.

Until then, I'll stick with the fact that we don't have all the facts.

This happened three years ago. If we do not have all the facts now or cannot get them, I think we never will

Here are the facts, that you can find the internet in Japanese. You can also look for yourself.

The driver seems not to have been seriously injured. The driver yelled 'Hold on! Why are you cutting the woman's clothes? Stoop it, you pervert!" to the good samaritan. The driver then starting holding the good samaritan's arm down.

The good samaritan responded, 'Now is not the time for saying stuff like that! Let go of me right now! This woman's life is in mortal danger!'

I have not read anything anywhere suggesting the driver had any injury that would have prevented him from recognizing his passenger had been seriously injured. The man obviously did not know what an AED was, but he should have been able to recognize that someone was trying to help.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

The real 'perverts' here are those that thought he was taking her clothes off for sexual purposes. Never ceases to amaze me how people 'think' here.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

If I were the woman, I would have let the bus driver have it later and let him know he is a "little" twerp.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Did you have a passenger?

I was the passenger. And your misunderstanding is a case in point about how reading something can cause misunderstanding if/when all the facts aren't available, and why people shouldn't rush to judgement.

The driver seems not to have been seriously injured

And again, that doesn't mean that the driver wasn't in shock, or had a concussion. The fact is, we don't have the facts.

I have not read anything anywhere suggesting the driver had any injury that would have prevented him from recognizing his passenger had been seriously injured.

Good for you. But people can be not seriously injured and still be in shock, and/or have a concussion. Your not reading about it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Its true we dont have all the facts, only the information from the story. Whatever the reason for the drivers misunderstanding the good samaritan wasnt arrested. The driver did however draw an incorrect conclusion and owes the helper an apology and a thank you.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

I have a friend who is a doctor here in Nagoya. There was a man at Chikusa Station having a heart attack. My friend gave him CPR. In the process, as can happen, he cracked a few ribs. Giving the man CPR saved his life, but the man later tried to sue my friend for giving him CPR. It took my friend over two years to fight off the lawsuit. Even though he is a doctor, he now says he would just keep walking now.

What Japan needs is what every other civilized country has - good Samaritan laws to keep folks like this man and my friend from being in trouble for rendering life saving aid. Otherwise people are just going to keep going on their way and "kankeinai" people needing help.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

If some junior high girl is choking you really have to think twice now about giving her the heimlich especially since the Japanese have never heard of it.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I was the passenger. And your misunderstanding is a case in point about how reading something can cause misunderstanding if/when all the facts aren't available, and why people shouldn't rush to judgement.

Did you check to see if the driver of the car was okay? Because that was the point of my question. I was just asking if there were others in the car and if you checked on whether they were okay or not. Fair enough about my mistake though about you being the passenger.

And again, that doesn't mean that the driver wasn't in shock, or had a concussion.

A concussion is a serious injury. Being in shock is a serious condition. They are not the same as being jumpy because of being in an accident. But, I do understand your point that the driver could have had a serious injury and the samaritan did not know about it or notice.

As SwissToni points out, the driver was in the wrong for whatever the cause and he should have thanked and apologized to the samaritan.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Did you check to see if the driver of the car was okay? Because that was the point of my question. I was just asking if there were others in the car and if you checked on whether they were okay or not.

And again, this just shows how a lack of information makes it easy to make mistakes in judgement - there wasn't another car. The driver of the truck I was in drove into the bank and flipped the truck.

No, I didn't check the other passengers. I didn't even know what was happening at first, and the next thing I knew people were hustling myself and one other passenger into a different vehicle.

A concussion is a serious injury. Being in shock is a serious condition.

Not in Japanese news. When they talk about injury, serious injury is that which requires hospitalization. Other injury is defined as light injury.

As SwissToni points out, the driver was in the wrong for whatever the cause and he should have thanked and apologized to the samaritan

I agree that the driver should apologize. But my point was that we don't have enough information to demonize him A he may have been making a judgement call that in other circumstances we would praise him for.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Well I'd recommend this story be broadcast on National TV, if it hasn't already, and a tutorial of AED. You learn about it in First Aid Class but not many people actually take that class.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

there wasn't another car. The driver of the truck I was in drove into the bank and flipped the truck.

This does show how someone can misunderstand a post. I never suggested there was another car. I merely asked if you checked the other people. You did not. You must have had a concussion or been in shock, because I cannot imagine any other situation when I would not check if the other people involved were okay or not.

Not in Japanese news. When they talk about injury, serious injury is that which requires hospitalization. Other injury is defined as light injury.

Concussions can and often do require hospitalization. So can shock. They are serious situations and should be taken seriously. They require treatment on the scene as well. The driver in this case was not treated.

he may have been making a judgement call that in other circumstances we would praise him for.

No. I don't see it that way. I can see how he could have misunderstood because of shock or a concussion if that were the case. However, I cannot imagine any situation where his reaction to the very situation we are talking about would be one that is praised. Forgiven, yes. Praised, no.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

This does show how someone can misunderstand a post. I never suggested there was another car. I merely asked if you checked the other people.

You're right. I misread it to think you were asking about the driver of the other car, but you didn't say that.

You must have had a concussion or been in shock, because I cannot imagine any other situation when I would not check if the other people involved were okay or not.

If I hadn't been through it, I wouldn't be able to imagine it either. My first instinct upon coming on the scene of an accident would be to check on everyone. But when I was in the accident, I couldn't figure out what was going on. I had the instinct to get up and get off the road so I didn't get hit by any cars that may come, but then I just sat down on the side of the road, watching what was happening, but not being clear on what was happening.

Concussions can and often do require hospitalization. So can shock. They are serious situations and should be taken seriously. They require treatment on the scene as well. The driver in this case was not treated.

The can require hospitalization, but they don't always require hospitalization. And the Japanese media makes the distinction between light and heavy injury (those are the kanji they use) as being whether or not the person needs hospitalization. So the driver of the car in this case may have been in a fugue, but not 'seriously injured'.

I cannot imagine any situation where his reaction to the very situation we are talking about would be one that is praised.

Calling the police because when one witnesses a sexual assault should be praised. In his mind, that is what he was witnessing. If it were indeed a sexual assault, and he didn't call the police upon witnessing it, we'd be demonizing him for that.

That all said, an apology to the accused would be a good thing, even if he thought he was doing the right thing.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Strangerland,

Fair enough. I was not there. I have only read the samaratin's actual tweets (twits?) and that is what I am basing my opinon on. I will admit there could have been more to it than he reported. The only thing I want to reiterate is that is really was a great thing that this samaritan was there and that he was strong enough to overcome the driver trying to hold his hand down and continue using the AED to save the woman.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

i agree with Hayashi san

hopefully the man can speak out on his behalf, receive a public apology, although the driver may have been nervous over the accident and not thinking clearly? and also may this bring awareness of using AEDs properly - they just recently this yeR had a special on AEDs on TV

1 ( +1 / -0 )

I was told you don't need to put a bra off if it doesn't contain wires, but I am a man and I can't find whether there's wires. I would do the same action as the man.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

RE: Strangerland: Don't take this personal.How do you know what was on the person's mind to make such a statement. Facts please. Have you seen an AED, have you seen someone using an AED or such other device, many countries have them.

"In his mind, that is what he was witnessing." Please read the article again: Rescuer: "when he believes someone who saw him cutting through the woman’s clothes to apply a defibrillator to her bare chest called the police and reported him for behaving inappropriately." KEY word AED defibrillator" to her chest Fact:"man began to administer artificial respiration and CPR to the woman, and contacted the emergency services. After an AED was procured from a nearby convenience store, the man began to cut through the woman’s clothes in order to administer it." Fact: "Once the man explained that he had been cutting through the woman’s clothes in order to use the AED, he was not questioned any further."

1 ( +1 / -0 )

RE: Strangerland: Don't take this personal.How do you know what was on the person's mind to make such a statement.

I don't know what was on his mind, which is why I said:

No, I'm not making that assumption. I haven't said he was in a fugue, I only brought it up as a possibility, due to the driver being condemned by 95% of the posters in this thread. My point being that without the facts, we can't know if he was being an idiot, or if he was just confused as to what was going on, and therefore called the police in the belief that someone was being sexually assaulted. If it was the latter, then he should be commended, not condemned. But of course, we can't know which it is, as we don't have all the facts.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

This doesn't even deserve the term "stupidity" it's dumb, period.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Who is perverted and who is not when a man saves a woman using this method or the people stopping and crowding around watching him do it?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

The real news story here is the fantastic way this fellow unselfishly helped save a life--normally I would assume others would help. The other issues are just part of the internal story. It is general human nature to help people in stress -- the issue is society makes us fearful of doing so.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Luckily the idiot that made the call did not physically interfere with the person applying the AED otherwise the results may have been different.and if that was the I wonder if that would represent any grounds for prosecution.... of the caller.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Another one of those "only in Japan" stories. Blame the ubiquitous background of pornographic reference in Japan -- it makes everyone hyper-sensitive to all the wrong things. Just ask western women who have lived in Japan more than a few months, they'll tell you.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Wow, Japan. Sadly not surprising

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

Wow, some sympathize with the bus driver...

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I am not surprised...sadly. I am very happy the lady is ok.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I read no indications that the accident was, or was not, the driver's fault. It could go either way. However, thinking logically, knowing the driver was essentially uninjured and that the passenger was injured severely enough to require defibrillation, my guess is that the car was T-boned on the passenger side. Which could go either way as to fault.

I do think people are being unduly harsh to the driver. He made mistakes. I'm assuming the passenger wasn't his wife, as I expect the news story would have mentioned that. My first guess is that she was a workmate who he was driving home, something they could have well been doing for a long while. Though I do feel that the diver should have been doing something to help his passenger. Then again, he may not have known what to do. Most people don't. He did overreact and I'm with several others here, I do think he owes the man who saved his passenger an apology and a good night out.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

So is he a fool for not knowing the basics of electricity?

Or is he a sissy for thinking his passenger is being assaulted and just standing there calling police?

The only way I see out of that conundrum is if he hit is head pretty hard. Seeing as the woman lived, maybe he hit it just hard enough?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

When i did my first aid training this sinario came up, what should you do?, the instructor said "try and get a another lady to help" (Ie remove the injured ladies top or skirt) and explain to them at the same time why you are doing this. also doing it this way you have a witness, and a helper, but if you can't get another lady well you just have to get on with it, because at the end of the day your going to try and save some ones life.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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